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O23
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:43 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:20 pm

Does anyone think United will ever bring mainline back to PVD?
 
ajsljet45
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:54 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 18, 2022 7:34 pm

According to this TPG article written today (which has since disappeared), Breeze will begin service to the following from BDL

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-ai ... h-florida/

Harford/Bradley International Airport, Connecticut (BDL)
* Phoenix: Twice-weekly flights (Thursday and Sunday) begin Feb. 9.
* Vero Beach, Florida: Daily service begins Feb. 15.
* Provo, Utah: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 9. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).
* San Bernardino, California: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 16. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:06 am

ajsljet45 wrote:
According to this TPG article written today (which has since disappeared), Breeze will begin service to the following from BDL

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-ai ... h-florida/

Harford/Bradley International Airport, Connecticut (BDL)
* Phoenix: Twice-weekly flights (Thursday and Sunday) begin Feb. 9.
* Vero Beach, Florida: Daily service begins Feb. 15.
* Provo, Utah: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 9. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).
* San Bernardino, California: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 16. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).

Getting PHX back is big for BDL. PHX and SFO are the two biggest holes in BDL's network. I'd argue from a network connectivity standpoint the next biggest hole would be SLC, but I don't see DL adding that back anytime soon.
 
SCHATC422
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:09 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 12:24 am

HVNandrew wrote:
ajsljet45 wrote:
According to this TPG article written today (which has since disappeared), Breeze will begin service to the following from BDL

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-ai ... h-florida/

Harford/Bradley International Airport, Connecticut (BDL)
* Phoenix: Twice-weekly flights (Thursday and Sunday) begin Feb. 9.
* Vero Beach, Florida: Daily service begins Feb. 15.
* Provo, Utah: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 9. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).
* San Bernardino, California: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 16. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).

Getting PHX back is big for BDL. PHX and SFO are the two biggest holes in BDL's network. I'd argue from a network connectivity standpoint the next biggest hole would be SLC, but I don't see DL adding that back anytime soon.



Agreed, I think DL would add LAX-BDL back before SLC, unfortunately.
 
uconn99
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:18 am

HVNandrew wrote:
ajsljet45 wrote:
According to this TPG article written today (which has since disappeared), Breeze will begin service to the following from BDL

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-ai ... h-florida/

Harford/Bradley International Airport, Connecticut (BDL)
* Phoenix: Twice-weekly flights (Thursday and Sunday) begin Feb. 9.
* Vero Beach, Florida: Daily service begins Feb. 15.
* Provo, Utah: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 9. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).
* San Bernardino, California: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 16. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).

Getting PHX back is big for BDL. PHX and SFO are the two biggest holes in BDL's network. I'd argue from a network connectivity standpoint the next biggest hole would be SLC, but I don't see DL adding that back anytime soon.


After San Francisco, I believe AUS, SEA and MSY are the next biggest unserved markets. CUN is another hole which needs to be served again, I wouldn't be surprised to see B6 resume BDL-CUN as the route has always had healthy loads when served by B6 and DL.
 
PVD523
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:01 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:47 am

O23 wrote:
Does anyone think United will ever bring mainline back to PVD?

Yes. When? Who knows. With the shifting landscape at the regional level I think UA will finally be forced to realize that continuing use of regional metal on certain routes, specifically PVD-ORD, will render them wholly uncompetitive. My hope is for summer 2023.
 
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bdlflyer
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:02 pm

HVNandrew wrote:
ajsljet45 wrote:
According to this TPG article written today (which has since disappeared), Breeze will begin service to the following from BDL

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-ai ... h-florida/

Harford/Bradley International Airport, Connecticut (BDL)
* Phoenix: Twice-weekly flights (Thursday and Sunday) begin Feb. 9.
* Vero Beach, Florida: Daily service begins Feb. 15.
* Provo, Utah: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 9. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).
* San Bernardino, California: One-stop, same-plane service begins Feb 16. Flights are twice weekly (Thursday and Sunday).

Getting PHX back is big for BDL. PHX and SFO are the two biggest holes in BDL's network. I'd argue from a network connectivity standpoint the next biggest hole would be SLC, but I don't see DL adding that back anytime soon.


I am assuming that Breeze thinks folks wanting to go to SLC will book the Provo flights as Provo is a 45-minute drive to SLC on I-15. I believe Provo has car rentals on-site.
 
PVD757
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 3:51 pm

BDL-VRB is 2x weekly with some weeks at 3x and even more for April school vacation week but has been misreported as daily.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 872
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 6:17 pm

PVD757 wrote:
BDL-VRB is 2x weekly with some weeks at 3x and even more for April school vacation week but has been misreported as daily.


As long as the flight is operated reliably…no cancellations….the BDL-VRB route will do well. Lots of people with second homes in Vero, Ft.Pierce, Port St Lucy, Jensen Beach, and Stuart.
 
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VS4ever
Posts: 2947
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Oct 19, 2022 8:34 pm

CairnterriAIR wrote:
PVD757 wrote:
BDL-VRB is 2x weekly with some weeks at 3x and even more for April school vacation week but has been misreported as daily.


As long as the flight is operated reliably…no cancellations….the BDL-VRB route will do well. Lots of people with second homes in Vero, Ft.Pierce, Port St Lucy, Jensen Beach, and Stuart.


Having used to work in Port St Lucie, the drive up from PBI sucked, so for those wanting to get there. I agree VRB will be much better.
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 872
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:36 pm

VS4ever wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:
PVD757 wrote:
BDL-VRB is 2x weekly with some weeks at 3x and even more for April school vacation week but has been misreported as daily.


As long as the flight is operated reliably…no cancellations….the BDL-VRB route will do well. Lots of people with second homes in Vero, Ft.Pierce, Port St Lucy, Jensen Beach, and Stuart.


Having used to work in Port St Lucie, the drive up from PBI sucked, so for those wanting to get there. I agree VRB will be much better.


Getting up the airport in Vero from PSL is easy. Just go north on US1 into Vero. Go past Cindi’s Pet and Aquarium, the past the mall. When you get to Mike’s Cut Rate Furniture, bang a left on Aviation BLVD. Grab a hot dog at the food truck on the corner, and pull into the airport parking lot.
 
madg
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Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:30 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 21, 2022 2:22 am

CairnterriAIR wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
CairnterriAIR wrote:

As long as the flight is operated reliably…no cancellations….the BDL-VRB route will do well. Lots of people with second homes in Vero, Ft.Pierce, Port St Lucy, Jensen Beach, and Stuart.


Having used to work in Port St Lucie, the drive up from PBI sucked, so for those wanting to get there. I agree VRB will be much better.


Getting up the airport in Vero from PSL is easy. Just go north on US1 into Vero. Go past Cindi’s Pet and Aquarium, the past the mall. When you get to Mike’s Cut Rate Furniture, bang a left on Aviation BLVD. Grab a hot dog at the food truck on the corner, and pull into the airport parking lot.


Plus free parking at VRB!!
 
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Revelation
Posts: 28396
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:26 pm

Signed in for the first time in a long time to say MHT is pretty much dead to me, even though it's still a far more convenient option for ground transportation.

My last few trips have been using the Boston Express bus. Fares are reasonable, $32 round trip per head, car parking is free. Not driving takes a lot of the stress out of the equation for me. The bus is quite comfortable, more comfortable than the airplane. MHT long term parking is $14 which adds up quick. The only down side is a bunch of dead time depending on how much of a gamble you want to take on Boston traffic and security lines, but these days we can all be conservative and just sit there with our phones or laptops and keep ourselves entertained and/or productive.

On the airport side, I used to be able to get nonstops from MHT to TPA where my mom lives, but can't find them any more. Meanwhile DL has nonstops at convenient times BOS-TPA with free advance seat selection. Bags do not fly free, but you can use miles to pay for bags, and even with just a few trips I have enough miles in the account to pay for the times I want to bring a bag.

I'm sure none of this is news to anyone who has been watching, but still, it's a shame. I want MHT to survive and thrive, but the product on offer isn't very compelling. I really prefer non-stops and certainly am not going to take a risk getting stuck at a hub during Thanksgiving Week.
 
mjgbtv
Posts: 1167
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:47 pm

For those interested in the equipment side of things, UA flew a MAX 8 from EWR to BTV today. Unless I have not been paying sufficient attention this was the first MAX to come to BTV.
 
BTVB6Flyer
Posts: 785
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:20 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:39 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
For those interested in the equipment side of things, UA flew a MAX 8 from EWR to BTV today. Unless I have not been paying sufficient attention this was the first MAX to come to BTV.


Yes noticed that as well, I think you're right.

Also looks like the BTV-DFW-BTV AA flight as changed to early AM BTV departure to late PM BTV arrival. I would assume that would really help the connections on both sides and help this go to multi-weekly down the road and/or to a 319.
 
EricBTV
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:24 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:13 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
BTVB6Flyer wrote:
BTV's new expansion opens 10/11/22. https://www.facebook.com/FlyBTV

I still can't for the life of me visualize how this looks or flows, so I guess will need to see in person. You can see last couple of pictures the floor is higher than the tail of a 737, so you go down a floor to board?

Due to hurricane Ian, I had to cancel my trip to VT this past week so couldn't check out the new additions or consolidated TSA. And also no new route for me MSP-BTV, merp.



The new screening area is on the ground level. You pass through in a generally southward direction away from the check in counters. Then if you are leaving from the south concourse you make a U-turn and go back past the security lanes and end up pretty much where you exit the south concourse security now. If you are leaving from the north concourse you go upstairs after security, head northward out of the new addition and I believe you eventually end up taking the same route as if you use the shipping container ramp now.


Thought I'd add a quick follow up here as I flew through BTV this weekend. The entrance is the same as the previous south checkpoint although there's still some construction in progress on remaining walls and such. The new checkpoint is gorgeous and is a massive improvement with 4 lanes and brand new equipment. The only thing missing was a dedicated pre-check lane after the ID check. They were still handing out cards and you could use any screening lane. As it's not even been open a month, I'll sure they'll look at this once processes are ironed out and they see the passenger volumes. Right now, all passengers are directed upstairs into the area of what will be the new Gate 9. This then opens up into the hallway that was part of the terminal connector. Those headed to the north gates continue down the hallway while those headed to the south gates head down the container ramp as before. There's separate signage at the checkpoint, so this is only temporary. All of the equipment from the north checkpoint has been removed, but it doesn't appear like any work has started on repurposing that space just yet.
 
airbazar
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:35 pm

Revelation wrote:
Signed in for the first time in a long time to say MHT is pretty much dead to me, even though it's still a far more convenient option for ground transportation.

My last few trips have been using the Boston Express bus. Fares are reasonable, $32 round trip per head, car parking is free. Not driving takes a lot of the stress out of the equation for me. The bus is quite comfortable, more comfortable than the airplane. MHT long term parking is $14 which adds up quick. The only down side is a bunch of dead time depending on how much of a gamble you want to take on Boston traffic and security lines, but these days we can all be conservative and just sit there with our phones or laptops and keep ourselves entertained and/or productive.

On the airport side, I used to be able to get nonstops from MHT to TPA where my mom lives, but can't find them any more. Meanwhile DL has nonstops at convenient times BOS-TPA with free advance seat selection. Bags do not fly free, but you can use miles to pay for bags, and even with just a few trips I have enough miles in the account to pay for the times I want to bring a bag.

I'm sure none of this is news to anyone who has been watching, but still, it's a shame. I want MHT to survive and thrive, but the product on offer isn't very compelling. I really prefer non-stops and certainly am not going to take a risk getting stuck at a hub during Thanksgiving Week.


I've been saying this for years now. I live right in between MHT and BOS and have lived here for 18 years now and I have used MHT only 5 times (2xMCO, 2xBWI, LAS).
There are very few reasons to ever use MHT. Parking is no longer cheap, air fares as sky high, destinations are too few and far in between.
It's a shame, that airport was great during the first decade or so of the 2000s.
 
O23
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:43 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Nov 14, 2022 5:34 am

Seeing a United A319 twice in a week now on the late night/early morning ORD-PVD. Never thought I’d see mainline back, is this an anomaly?
 
PVD523
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:01 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:39 am

O23 wrote:
Seeing a United A319 twice in a week now on the late night/early morning ORD-PVD. Never thought I’d see mainline back, is this an anomaly?

Appears to be an anomaly. Couple one-offs. Though the early morning PVD-ORD run gets the A319 starting in February per the latest schedule updates, and is loaded as such in the default schedules past March. If my memory serves me correctly this is the first time UA mainline makes an appearance at PVD in a month-long block since December 2018. Hope it stays this way.
 
PVD523
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:01 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:11 am

MX adding RDU-BDL/PVD (and MSY)

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-airways-nonstop-flights-raleigh-durham-rdu/amp/

BDL-RDU operates Sun, Thurs E195 (begins 2/16)
PVD-RDU operates Mon, Fri E195 (begins 2/17)

Also as reported, resuming BDL-PIT and BDL-MSY as a breeze thru.
 
PVD523
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:01 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Nov 15, 2022 9:27 am

Miscellaneous PVD updates:

Terminal restroom renovation project is complete. Like something out of the Bellagio, they’re very nice, though out of place compared to the rest of the terminal which hasn’t undergone any extensive update since being built. To that point RFPs have been issued for a terminal interior design refresh and a rebid of the food and concessions program, which are sorely needed. RFP has also been issued for a new 92,000 sf cargo facility to be built at the south end of the airfield which would take out TWY E and a portion of the long term parking lot.

All projects: https://www.flyri.com/riac/procurement/
 
O23
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Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:43 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:34 pm

Frontier ending all PVD service next year.
 
lat41
Posts: 831
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:43 pm

O23 wrote:
Frontier ending all PVD service next year.

Since F9's Northeast route haircut a few months ago, they did not have much product to sell at PVD. That plus the systemwide revolving door of routes that come and go did not help. We'll see how the majors, Breeze or even Avelo react.
 
O23
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:18 am

Speaking of Breeze, has anyone noticed the very long delays that a lot of their flights are facing?
 
PVD523
Posts: 239
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:10 am

lat41 wrote:
O23 wrote:
Frontier ending all PVD service next year.

Since F9's Northeast route haircut a few months ago, they did not have much product to sell at PVD. That plus the systemwide revolving door of routes that come and go did not help. We'll see how the majors, Breeze or even Avelo react.

Sucks to see the loss of any airline but unfortunately I feel like the writing was on the wall. The last few winters they’ve offered a mix of PVD-MCO, TPA, RSW, FLL, with CUN joining the group this past winter. When they cut their winter schedules to just MCO and FLL, less than daily to boot, it seemed like they weren’t long for PVD.
 
BlueBaller
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:29 am

PVD523 wrote:
lat41 wrote:
O23 wrote:
Frontier ending all PVD service next year.

Since F9's Northeast route haircut a few months ago, they did not have much product to sell at PVD. That plus the systemwide revolving door of routes that come and go did not help. We'll see how the majors, Breeze or even Avelo react.

Sucks to see the loss of any airline but unfortunately I feel like the writing was on the wall. The last few winters they’ve offered a mix of PVD-MCO, TPA, RSW, FLL, with CUN joining the group this past winter. When they cut their winter schedules to just MCO and FLL, less than daily to boot, it seemed like they weren’t long for PVD.


https://turnto10.com/news/local/frontie ... n-republic

This article mentions 2x weekly charter service PVD-SDQ starting next month lasting thru the holiday season. There’s been growing interest in the PVD-Dominican Republic market in the last few years, including Sun Country’s PVD-PUJ which got stunted due to COVID. With the substantial DR diaspora in the Providence metro area this should do well. I think the only reason JetBlue hasn’t started this service is it would cannibalize the highly protected Boston op.
 
PVD523
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:48 am

BlueBaller wrote:
PVD523 wrote:
lat41 wrote:
Since F9's Northeast route haircut a few months ago, they did not have much product to sell at PVD. That plus the systemwide revolving door of routes that come and go did not help. We'll see how the majors, Breeze or even Avelo react.

Sucks to see the loss of any airline but unfortunately I feel like the writing was on the wall. The last few winters they’ve offered a mix of PVD-MCO, TPA, RSW, FLL, with CUN joining the group this past winter. When they cut their winter schedules to just MCO and FLL, less than daily to boot, it seemed like they weren’t long for PVD.


https://turnto10.com/news/local/frontie ... n-republic

This article mentions 2x weekly charter service PVD-SDQ starting next month lasting thru the holiday season. There’s been growing interest in the PVD-Dominican Republic market in the last few years, including Sun Country’s PVD-PUJ which got stunted due to COVID. With the substantial DR diaspora in the Providence metro area this should do well. I think the only reason JetBlue hasn’t started this service is it would cannibalize the highly protected Boston op.

Worst case, hopefully these can be good proving runs for the market. With service starting in 2.5 weeks and flights just announced yesterday, I’m curious what loads will be like. Outside of MIA, PVD will be their only US destination, so I’m in wait and see mode. And you’re correct, B6 would be the long term carrier of choice but I don’t see that happening for the reason you mention.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:10 pm

Is PWM likely to suffer the same fate as PVD with respect to Frontier?
 
lat41
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:45 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Is PWM likely to suffer the same fate as PVD with respect to Frontier?

F9 is thinning or quitting quite a few cities. Could some of the reason be they would rather steer clear of the eventual merged JetBlue -Spirit combo? Start-change-stop routes, start 'em up again did not help Frontier and in the end their piece of the Southern New England pie was not too significant.
 
PVD523
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:32 pm

lat41 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Is PWM likely to suffer the same fate as PVD with respect to Frontier?

F9 is thinning or quitting quite a few cities. Could some of the reason be they would rather steer clear of the eventual merged JetBlue -Spirit combo? Start-change-stop routes, start 'em up again did not help Frontier and in the end their piece of the Southern New England pie was not too significant.

I’m curious where they plan to fly the additional 69 A320neos and 167 A321neos they have on order as they continue with their current route planning strategy.

F9 made quite a splash after their initial entry into PVD. At one point they were about the same size here as the old NW, carrying north of 40K pax per month. But the continuous start-change-stop routes certainly didn’t help. Start DEN, change flight times, stop DEN, start again two years later. The same thing with numerous other destinations. Outside of MCO it was just an inconsistent dartboard.
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:47 pm

lat41 wrote:
chrisnh wrote:
Is PWM likely to suffer the same fate as PVD with respect to Frontier?

F9 is thinning or quitting quite a few cities. Could some of the reason be they would rather steer clear of the eventual merged JetBlue -Spirit combo? Start-change-stop routes, start 'em up again did not help Frontier and in the end their piece of the Southern New England pie was not too significant.


If F9 completely pulls out of PWM, PWM would certainly be able to support the return of WN PWM-MCO nonstop service with the amount of O&D demand that PWM has to MCO.

PWM can also likely support WN nonstop service to TPA on at least a seasonal, Saturday-only basis with PWM no longer having any nonstop service to TPA along with the amount of O&D demand that is there to TPA from PWM.

PWM isn't currently served by G4, XP, MX, or NK, unlike some of the other WN stations that don't currently have WN nonstop service to MCO/TPA.

Here were the PDEW's of PWM-MCO/TPA in the first half of 2022:
PDEW of PWM-MCO in Q1 2022 - 177 passengers/day
PDEW of PWM-MCO in Q2 2022 - 120 passengers/day
PDEW of PWM-MCO in H1 2022 - 148 passengers/day

PDEW of PWM-TPA in Q1 2022 - 92 passengers/day
PDEW of PWM-TPA in Q2 2022 - 79 passengers/day
PDEW of PWM-TPA in H1 2022 - 85 passengers/day
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:05 pm

chrisnh wrote:
Is PWM likely to suffer the same fate as PVD with respect to Frontier?



Good question. I’ve been waiting to see RSW, TPA, FLL resume for the season, but so far it’s only MCO. I think MIA ended last year before season was even done?
 
paysonmt77
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:28 pm

F9 will not pull out of PWM for these reasons. PVD is well served by B6, Allegiant, Breeze, and SWA to Florida. F9 knows that Breeze plans to increase lift in the next few years which will decrease F9 market share in the PVD area. I do see F9 ramping down BDL which Spirit is also suspending routes out of BDL. F9 is the only game in town for PWM to MCO and they fill the planes both to RDU and MCO. Will SWA add MCO? no. Will B6 go back to operating a regular schedule than seasonal? no. RSW, FLL, and TPA have been hit hard around New England airports. I don't see service coming back until 2023 Q4. I am glad Spirit does not fly to PWM. MHT was sold a bad apple. Remember, airports are demanded by Spirit to pay for its marketing. MHT was soaked and now is seeing a pull back on service.
 
 
PVD523
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:29 pm

rove312 wrote:

The article attributes this to the pilot shortage which I agree with, but I can’t help but think the $222 million in refunds F9 been ordered to pay out has something to do with these cuts too, requiring them to tighten the wallet a bit.
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:06 pm

rove312 wrote:


BTV can probably support B6 or SY nonstop service to MCO with BTV-MCO being one of the top routes to Orlando (by O&D PDEW's) that no longer has any nonstop service.

B6 also already serves MCO nonstop from ALB/BUF/BDL/LAX/LGA/PVD/RIC/SYR/DCA/HPN in addition to BOS/JFK/EWR.

B6 can likely make nonstop service to MCO work from BTV if B6 is able to make nonstop service to MCO work from some other markets in the Northeast.
 
BTVB6Flyer
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:19 pm

It won't be B6, they've tried it before and fly token service to JFK as is. If BTV regains Florida service, it will certainly be either Avelo or Breeze.
 
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chrisnh
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:45 pm

paysonmt77 wrote:
F9 will not pull out of PWM.


Doesn’t the article linked to above say that PWM is getting cut, too?
 
Portlander
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:30 pm

Payson is correct. Frontier will maintain service to MCO and RDU from Portland, the previous seasonal routes have been discontinued.
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 02, 2022 7:53 am

It’s interesting that so few have been able to make BTV-Florida work, or work well enough to keep airlines from leaving for greener pastures. JetBlue, Allegiant, Frontier, all gone off the route. Only AA remains, 1x per week (and we’ll see if that lasts). If even the LCCs like Allegiant and Frontier can’t find value in it, that’s saying something.

It probably doesn’t help to have PBG as competition. And the delay-prone border crossing at Swanton probably doesn’t help either.

Edit to add: Air Florida couldn’t make it work either, back in the day (circa 1982 or so).
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:22 pm

paysonmt77 wrote:
F9 is the only game in town for PWM to MCO and they fill the planes both to RDU and MCO. Will SWA add MCO? no.


Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for F9 PWM-TPA in March 2022:
3988 passengers, 4266 seats, 93.48% load factor

PWM can support WN nonstop service to TPA on at least a seasonal, Saturday-only basis with the amount of demand that is there to TPA from PWM along with PWM no longer having any nonstop service to TPA.

WN adding PWM-DEN nonstop service is also a possibility with WN still having plans to significantly expand at DEN.

WN is still facing pilot shortages, and there are still some other routes previously served nonstop by WN that haven't yet seen WN nonstop service restored due to the pilot shortages that WN is facing.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:22 pm

jplatts wrote:
paysonmt77 wrote:
F9 is the only game in town for PWM to MCO and they fill the planes both to RDU and MCO. Will SWA add MCO? no.


Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors for F9 PWM-TPA in March 2022:
3988 passengers, 4266 seats, 93.48% load factor

PWM can support WN nonstop service to TPA on at least a seasonal, Saturday-only basis with the amount of demand that is there to TPA from PWM along with PWM no longer having any nonstop service to TPA.

WN adding PWM-DEN nonstop service is also a possibility with WN still having plans to significantly expand at DEN.

WN is still facing pilot shortages, and there are still some other routes previously served nonstop by WN that haven't yet seen WN nonstop service restored due to the pilot shortages that WN is facing.


WN can barely sustain MDW at PWM, what makes you think they will try DEN? You'll see year round, MDW with 2x in the summer for years, before they will add PWM-DEN as a 3rd carrier (with the exception being the possibility of a seasonal sat only)
 
mjgbtv
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:34 pm

BTVB6Flyer wrote:
It won't be B6, they've tried it before and fly token service to JFK as is. If BTV regains Florida service, it will certainly be either Avelo or Breeze.


You could call it token but apart from MCO what else would they do? To their credit they stuck with BTV through many years of declining market share, and now they seem to be trying to get back to the 3x daily to JFK that they flew before COVID. I believe they have to keep flying to JFK per the NEA but I'm not aware that they are required to maintain a particular frequency?

As for MCO, back in those days jetBlue didn't really do the less-than-daily model, so their playing field was not the same as Allegiant/Frontier. IMO the route needs smaller aircraft and more frequency than what Allegiant and Frontier offered. I'm holding out hope for Breeze.
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:52 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
WN can barely sustain MDW at PWM, what makes you think they will try DEN? You'll see year round, MDW with 2x in the summer for years, before they will add PWM-DEN as a 3rd carrier (with the exception being the possibility of a seasonal sat only)


WN was actually getting good load factors on PWM-BWI/MDW/BNA nonstop service in Summer 2022.

WN has also dropped some of the nonstop routes that WN could likely operate profitably (if it weren't facing the pilot shortages that it is currently facing) due to the pilot shortages that WN is still facing.

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors that WN had on PWM-BWI/MDW/BNA in July 2022:
PWM-BWI - 24452 passengers, 27456 seats, 89.06% load factor
PWM-MDW - 14504 passengers, 16159 seats, 89.76% load factor
PWM-BNA - 1334 passengers, 1430 seats, 93.29% load factor

Here were the number of passengers, number of seats, and load factors that WN had on PWM-BWI/MDW/BNA in August 2022:
PWM-BWI - 23975 passengers, 27027 seats, 88.60% load factor
PWM-MDW - 14605 passengers, 15873 seats, 92.01% load factor
PWM-BNA - 1070 passengers, 1144 seats, 93.53% load factor

WN has already completely dropped PWM-BNA nonstop service, even though WN was likely doing well on the PWM-BNA route in Summer 2022 with the load factors that WN was getting on PWM-BNA in Summer 2022.

Even though PWM can likely support the return of WN nonstop service to BNA, I can understand WN completely dropping PWM-BNA nonstop service with the pilot shortages that WN is still facing along with the connectivity that is still there through BWI and MDW from PWM on WN.

PWM can also likely support WN nonstop service to DEN with F9 no longer serving DEN nonstop from PWM along with WN having added nonstop service to DEN from a few other markets that no longer have F9 service such as BHM, EUG, SBA, and ICT.

WN's plans to significantly expand at DEN (even beyond the service that WN currently has out of DEN) has also been previously discussed in the Airliners.net forums in the last 5 years. WN is going to be operating 288 daily departures out of DEN on weekdays in Summer 2023, and WN was planning on increasing DEN to more than 300 daily departures.

Most of the WN nonstop routes out of DEN will also be at or above pre-pandemic frequencies in Summer 2023.

There are also only a handful of WN destinations remaining in the contiguous U.S. that WN hasn't served nonstop from DEN such as CRP, VPS, GSP, HRL, ISP, JAN, PWM, ROC, SYR, PBI, and DCA.
 
B595
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:53 pm

mjgbtv wrote:
IMO the route needs smaller aircraft and more frequency than what Allegiant and Frontier offered. I'm holding out hope for Breeze.

It may be that it needs smaller aircraft and less frequency, exactly like what AA is doing: E175 1x/week. Keeps airfares high enough to sustain it.
 
jvlmd81
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:14 pm

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Dec 07, 2022 6:54 am

Breeze will start PVD to CVG LAX CMH nonstops dome breeze thru flight also added ie Orange County
 
PVD523
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:01 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:07 am

jvlmd81 wrote:
Breeze will start PVD to CVG LAX CMH nonstops dome breeze thru flight also added ie Orange County

Little bit to unpack here. CVG, CMH, and LAX have been loaded as nonstops. JAX, SNA, and TPA have been added as Breeze Thrus.

PVD-CMH starts 3/29 Wed, Sat on the A220
PVD-CVG starts 3/30 Sun, Tues, Thurs, on the A220
PVD-LAX starts 5/17 Wed, Sat on the A220. Breeze Thru is offered Mon, Fri via ORF

Additionally:
PVD-SNA as a Breeze Thru daily starting 3/29. Sun, Tues, Thurs via CVG. Mon, Fri via PIT. Wed, Sat via CMH.
PVD-TPA as a Breeze Thru starting 5/17 Tues, Wed, Sat via ORF.
PVD-JAX returns as a Breeze Thru and not nonstop starting 5/18 Sun, Thurs via ORF.
 
lat41
Posts: 831
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Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:36 pm

Let's hope the pace of new Breeze aircraft arrivals and the supply of flight crews pick up. Plenty of population in Southern New England to fill in unserved and underserved markets but we need equipment and staff.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3389
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: The Rest of New England (BDL/PVD/MHT/PWM/ORH/BTV/HVN/BGR) Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:04 pm

So from the looks of it Breeze will have the following this summer:
CHS Daily
ORF Daily
PIT 4x Weekly
CVG 3x Weekly
LAX 2x Weekly
RDU 2x Weekly
CMH 2x Weekly

Total of 27 weekly flights

Im hoping we see LAS PHX in the fall then VRB and SRQ come next winter
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