flyPIT wrote:

USPIT10L wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

I'm gonna go with BOS, LAS, MCO, FLL stay year-round. Maybe a couple of the others as seasonal. Let's not forget that B6 only cared about making PIT-BOS work. Gone are JFK, FLL, and PBI (announced but never started). There is no reason they could not have made PIT-JFK/FLL work long term. It was simply a matter of bigger fish to fry.

LBE gets cut. I really hope I'm wrong on that, it's such a nice airport. Was just out there the other day, parking lots were packed and NK has found a consistent niche. The result has been an increased market overall in SW PA.

You forgot about LAX.....nice analysis, though.

I did think about LAX, I just don’t see it as a B6 route. Maybe as a seasonal. Not that I don’t think it can’t be successful, but I see it as the other B6 routes that were dropped. Just not in B6’s wheelhouse.

I’m aware they fly BUF-LAX, but didn’t that begin at the urging of Schumer?

Duplicate. Delete.

flyPIT wrote:

USPIT10L wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

I'm gonna go with BOS, LAS, MCO, FLL stay year-round. Maybe a couple of the others as seasonal. Let's not forget that B6 only cared about making PIT-BOS work. Gone are JFK, FLL, and PBI (announced but never started). There is no reason they could not have made PIT-JFK/FLL work long term. It was simply a matter of bigger fish to fry.

LBE gets cut. I really hope I'm wrong on that, it's such a nice airport. Was just out there the other day, parking lots were packed and NK has found a consistent niche. The result has been an increased market overall in SW PA.

You forgot about LAX.....nice analysis, though.

I did think about LAX, I just don’t see it as a B6 route. Maybe as a seasonal. Not that I don’t think it can’t be successful, but I see it as the other B6 routes that were dropped. Just not in B6’s wheelhouse.

I’m aware they fly BUF-LAX, but didn’t that begin at the urging of Schumer?

I know a lot of people that are hesitant to fly Spirit to LAX. Seats are so uncomfortable for a 5 hr flight, not business friendly, etc. Maybe with B6 they can capture more business travel that is currently connecting.

Overall, continued consolidation in the airline industry is bad bad bad for PIT.

PITfall wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

USPIT10L wrote:

You forgot about LAX.....nice analysis, though.

I did think about LAX, I just don’t see it as a B6 route. Maybe as a seasonal. Not that I don’t think it can’t be successful, but I see it as the other B6 routes that were dropped. Just not in B6’s wheelhouse.

I’m aware they fly BUF-LAX, but didn’t that begin at the urging of Schumer?

I know a lot of people that are hesitant to fly Spirit to LAX. Seats are so uncomfortable for a 5 hr flight, not business friendly, etc. Maybe with B6 they can capture more business travel that is currently connecting.

Overall, continued consolidation in the airline industry is bad bad bad for PIT.

Counterpoint: recently flew CMH-LAX with my wife, a little shorter than the PIT route, but not much. Paid for all the extras; big seats, bags, Wi-Fi, food and drinks. Came out to about the price of a regular legacy connecting trip. Incredibly comfortable experience on a brand new NEO with friendly crew. It still doesn’t solve the problem of being stuck if it cancels, but I will miss that option for sure.

I agree that LBE is done once B6 takes over. LBE is ONLY a ULCC play, and B6 does not play in that same market. It is a shame because the NK service from LBE is a real pleasure. It's been a numbers of years since I flew from there, but I took NK many times to MYR because of the rock bottom fares and my friend at the time living 2 blocks from the beach. Anyways, I could absolutely see G4 moving in if NK/B6 move out.

CMHtraveler wrote:

PITfall wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

I did think about LAX, I just don’t see it as a B6 route. Maybe as a seasonal. Not that I don’t think it can’t be successful, but I see it as the other B6 routes that were dropped. Just not in B6’s wheelhouse.

I’m aware they fly BUF-LAX, but didn’t that begin at the urging of Schumer?

I know a lot of people that are hesitant to fly Spirit to LAX. Seats are so uncomfortable for a 5 hr flight, not business friendly, etc. Maybe with B6 they can capture more business travel that is currently connecting.

Overall, continued consolidation in the airline industry is bad bad bad for PIT.

Counterpoint: recently flew CMH-LAX with my wife, a little shorter than the PIT route, but not much. Paid for all the extras; big seats, bags, Wi-Fi, food and drinks. Came out to about the price of a regular legacy connecting trip. Incredibly comfortable experience on a brand new NEO with friendly crew. It still doesn’t solve the problem of being stuck if it cancels, but I will miss that option for sure.

Definitely. And my point also assumes busines travel picks up for the PIT market.

But if B6 is now going to try to compete with the legacies more, shouldn't this route now be considered "in their wheelhouse"? If they'd give LAX-PIT a chance, I bet it'd do a lot better than NK. I know a ton of people who flat out refuse to take the nonstop because it's Spirit. Every person I work with that has to go between the two cities chooses a connection on a legacy. A personal anecdote, I realize, but I run into this more than any other route issue.

flyPIT wrote:

USPIT10L wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

I'm gonna go with BOS, LAS, MCO, FLL stay year-round. Maybe a couple of the others as seasonal. Let's not forget that B6 only cared about making PIT-BOS work. Gone are JFK, FLL, and PBI (announced but never started). There is no reason they could not have made PIT-JFK/FLL work long term. It was simply a matter of bigger fish to fry.

LBE gets cut. I really hope I'm wrong on that, it's such a nice airport. Was just out there the other day, parking lots were packed and NK has found a consistent niche. The result has been an increased market overall in SW PA.

You forgot about LAX.....nice analysis, though.

I did think about LAX, I just don’t see it as a B6 route. Maybe as a seasonal. Not that I don’t think it can’t be successful, but I see it as the other B6 routes that were dropped. Just not in B6’s wheelhouse.

I’m aware they fly BUF-LAX, but didn’t that begin at the urging of Schumer?

I don't see LAX getting cut. It's a focus city for B6 already and they'll have a monopoly on the route once they take over NK's service.

AaronPGH wrote:

But if B6 is now going to try to compete with the legacies more, shouldn't this route now be considered "in their wheelhouse"? If they'd give LAX-PIT a chance, I bet it'd do a lot better than NK. I know a ton of people who flat out refuse to take the nonstop because it's Spirit. Every person I work with that has to go between the two cities chooses a connection on a legacy. A personal anecdote, I realize, but I run into this more than any other route issue.

There is no way I would ever sit on a Spirit aircraft for a 5 hour cross country flight. I did Allegiant to PBI and it was torture....never again. I can see a short flight like an hour or so for a quick getaway, but never anything longer. And after many years of business travel, that wouldn't have ever been a consideration.

JohnPgh wrote:

AaronPGH wrote:

But if B6 is now going to try to compete with the legacies more, shouldn't this route now be considered "in their wheelhouse"? If they'd give LAX-PIT a chance, I bet it'd do a lot better than NK. I know a ton of people who flat out refuse to take the nonstop because it's Spirit. Every person I work with that has to go between the two cities chooses a connection on a legacy. A personal anecdote, I realize, but I run into this more than any other route issue.

There is no way I would ever sit on a Spirit aircraft for a 5 hour cross country flight. I did Allegiant to PBI and it was torture....never again. I can see a short flight like an hour or so for a quick getaway, but never anything longer. And after many years of business travel, that wouldn't have ever been a consideration.

Torture seems a bit dramatic. I’ve flown on all the airlines and unless you don’t like the ancillary fees there isn’t much of a difference in the economy products. I’d personally rather have a direct flight to palm beach than deal with connecting in Charlotte for example. To each their own I guess, but I find it funny that people really think that outside of first class flying, there’s that big of a gap.

It's more than just seat pitch. It's also in-flight amenities, having someone you can talk to if things go wrong, and an airline that also offers some kind of a backup plan to get you where you're going.

primetimeDC9 wrote:

To each their own I guess, but I find it funny that people really think that outside of first class flying, there’s that big of a gap.

If you don’t get a “Big Front Seat”, NK seats are simply awful, even from an economy standard. F9s aren’t that far behind either.

izbtmnhd wrote:

primetimeDC9 wrote:

To each their own I guess, but I find it funny that people really think that outside of first class flying, there’s that big of a gap.

If you don’t get a “Big Front Seat”, NK seats are simply awful, even from an economy standard. F9s aren’t that far behind either.

Exactly. For a short flight to Florida, it's easy to "suck it up" and deal with the seats if it means no connections. I flew NK in the big front seats from PIT-LAS and it was great. This was a few years ago, but good crew, good snacks (paid), no complaints. I also took the same flight a year after that in the regular seats, but it wasn't a problem as it was a group of guys and we just laughed and had fun on our way to Vegas.

First Class domestically in the US is a joke. I don't get what the hype is about. You can't compare a domestic flight to say a long haul flight to Dubai or Europe in First Class. Not even close.

izbtmnhd wrote:

primetimeDC9 wrote:

To each their own I guess, but I find it funny that people really think that outside of first class flying, there’s that big of a gap.

If you don’t get a “Big Front Seat”, NK seats are simply awful, even from an economy standard. F9s aren’t that far behind either.

Exactly. For a short flight to Florida, it's easy to "suck it up" and deal with the seats if it means no connections. I flew NK in the big front seats from PIT-LAS and it was great. This was a few years ago, but good crew, good snacks (paid), no complaints. I also took the same flight a year after that in the regular seats, but it wasn't a problem as it was a group of guys and we just laughed and had fun on our way to Vegas.

First Class domestically in the US is a joke. I don't get what the hype is about. You can't compare a domestic flight to say a long haul flight to Dubai or Europe in First Class. Not even close.

[url][/url]

AaronPGH wrote:

It's more than just seat pitch. It's also in-flight amenities, having someone you can talk to if things go wrong, and an airline that also offers some kind of a backup plan to get you where you're going.

I was commenting on the direct difference between the actual in flight experiences. Sitting in the back of a legacy 737 isn’t exactly sitting in the lap of luxury. The difference in the actual flying experience is minimal to me. I bring a pre-loaded device with shows on it and a book when I fly so the entertainment value maybe isn’t as important for me. I agree that the sheer volume of flights that the majors have give you more contingency options, but as far as a major difference on the actual flights in basic economy vs a ulcc I don’t see it.

primetimeDC9 wrote:

[url][/url]

AaronPGH wrote:

It's more than just seat pitch. It's also in-flight amenities, having someone you can talk to if things go wrong, and an airline that also offers some kind of a backup plan to get you where you're going.

I was commenting on the direct difference between the actual in flight experiences. Sitting in the back of a legacy 737 isn’t exactly sitting in the lap of luxury. The difference in the actual flying experience is minimal to me. I bring a pre-loaded device with shows on it and a book when I fly so the entertainment value maybe isn’t as important for me. I agree that the sheer volume of flights that the majors have give you more contingency options, but as far as a major difference on the actual flights in basic economy vs a ulcc I don’t see it.

Seat pitch is the big thing to me. Difference between 31/32 and 28 is my knees having a little room or up against the seat. A normal sized tray table is also helpful. I still don’t see the reason for the small ones on the ULCCs. It can’t save that much money in the grand scheme of things and I can’t imagine that many more up front seats are being sold just for a bigger tray table.

OK maybe torture wasn't a good word, but not far off. A seat that had about 1/2" of cushion, sitting for 2.5 hours on what felt like a board. And I know this may have been a one off, but their flight attendants (especially the lead) were the most miserable that I have ever seen. And I was embarrassed to find out they were PIT based. Watching how they talked to customers was horrible. And yes that was enough for me. I go back to PBI all the time and connect through ATL or CLT. It was great when JetBlue flew to FLL, I would take that and drive up to Palm Beach.

GSPSPOT wrote:

AaronPGH wrote:

Runway765 wrote:

They've said they will be, but we haven't really heard any details on this yet. More glass would make a world of a difference... hopefully they can open up some bigger views.

They did this at ATL and the difference is astounding.

Agreed, ATL is 1000% better now.

I somehow doubt they will do anything to the air side, they already "did" that with the new carpeting and paint. I also personally love the glass jetbridges that are common in European airports. My hope/expectation is that the airside will be incrementally replaced and hopefully made to match the new airside - but in like 20 or 30 something years.

JamesRenard wrote:

I don't see LAX getting cut. It's a focus city for B6 already and they'll have a monopoly on the route once they take over NK's service.

B6 to LAX is an interesting one. Yea, LAX isn't one of their big transcon hubs... but with them having a larger presence and some connecting options there, no competition on the PIT route, and possibly the A220 to utilize, there could be potential for this working out.

Isn't B6 bigger in Long Beach? Maybe they move our flight there?

PITexpress wrote:

JamesRenard wrote:

I don't see LAX getting cut. It's a focus city for B6 already and they'll have a monopoly on the route once they take over NK's service.

B6 to LAX is an interesting one. Yea, LAX isn't one of their big transcon hubs... but with them having a larger presence and some connecting options there, no competition on the PIT route, and possibly the A220 to utilize, there could be potential for this working out.

Isn't B6 bigger in Long Beach? Maybe they move our flight there?

Jetblue has zero service to LGB.

PITexpress wrote:

I somehow doubt they will do anything to the air side, they already "did" that with the new carpeting and paint. I also personally love the glass jetbridges that are common in European airports. My hope/expectation is that the airside will be incrementally replaced and hopefully made to match the new airside - but in like 20 or 30 something years.

IIRC approx $100 million has been included to renovate the airside concourses. No other details have been made public.

I agree the whole thing will be replaced incrementally after the landslide is finished, and maybe sooner than later.

FLYKTPA wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

JamesRenard wrote:

I don't see LAX getting cut. It's a focus city for B6 already and they'll have a monopoly on the route once they take over NK's service.

B6 to LAX is an interesting one. Yea, LAX isn't one of their big transcon hubs... but with them having a larger presence and some connecting options there, no competition on the PIT route, and possibly the A220 to utilize, there could be potential for this working out.

Isn't B6 bigger in Long Beach? Maybe they move our flight there?

Jetblue has zero service to LGB.

I'm less familiar with the socal airports. Isn't B6 big in an LA airport that isn't LAX?

PITexpress wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

B6 to LAX is an interesting one. Yea, LAX isn't one of their big transcon hubs... but with them having a larger presence and some connecting options there, no competition on the PIT route, and possibly the A220 to utilize, there could be potential for this working out.

Isn't B6 bigger in Long Beach? Maybe they move our flight there?

Jetblue has zero service to LGB.

I'm less familiar with the socal airports. Isn't B6 big in an LA airport that isn't LAX?

They WERE big at LGB. They closed it and moved everything to LAX. Southwest basically took over all their LGB.

PITexpress wrote:

JamesRenard wrote:

I don't see LAX getting cut. It's a focus city for B6 already and they'll have a monopoly on the route once they take over NK's service.

B6 to LAX is an interesting one. Yea, LAX isn't one of their big transcon hubs... but with them having a larger presence and some connecting options there, no competition on the PIT route, and possibly the A220 to utilize, there could be potential for this working out.

Isn't B6 bigger in Long Beach? Maybe they move our flight there?

I'm also interested to see where PIT-LAX goes. It's maybe America's most bizarre city pair with a strange lack of service despite significant ties between the two markets. I always thought that Spirit being on the route tanked yields so badly that nobody else wanted to fly it. Now with Spirit being gone, maybe we see some interest from someone else. I still think American is the most natural fit, but they've scaled their LAX hub way, way back. JetBlue is a much better fit than Spirit was, but there's probably enough paid F demand on the route for someone with a two class cabin. My other lingering thought is that it needs to be flown twice daily by someone (or maybe the AA/AS/B6 combo) to capture business demand. At once daily, enough of the traffic fragments onto one stops for schedule convenience.

GSP psgr wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

JamesRenard wrote:

I don't see LAX getting cut. It's a focus city for B6 already and they'll have a monopoly on the route once they take over NK's service.

B6 to LAX is an interesting one. Yea, LAX isn't one of their big transcon hubs... but with them having a larger presence and some connecting options there, no competition on the PIT route, and possibly the A220 to utilize, there could be potential for this working out.

Isn't B6 bigger in Long Beach? Maybe they move our flight there?

I'm also interested to see where PIT-LAX goes. It's maybe America's most bizarre city pair with a strange lack of service despite significant ties between the two markets. I always thought that Spirit being on the route tanked yields so badly that nobody else wanted to fly it. Now with Spirit being gone, maybe we see some interest from someone else. I still think American is the most natural fit, but they've scaled their LAX hub way, way back. JetBlue is a much better fit than Spirit was, but there's probably enough paid F demand on the route for someone with a two class cabin. My other lingering thought is that it needs to be flown twice daily by someone (or maybe the AA/AS/B6 combo) to capture business demand. At once daily, enough of the traffic fragments onto one stops for schedule convenience.

What are the significant ties between the two markets? Other than XYZ PDEW

Midwestindy wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

PITexpress wrote:

B6 to LAX is an interesting one. Yea, LAX isn't one of their big transcon hubs... but with them having a larger presence and some connecting options there, no competition on the PIT route, and possibly the A220 to utilize, there could be potential for this working out.

Isn't B6 bigger in Long Beach? Maybe they move our flight there?

I'm also interested to see where PIT-LAX goes. It's maybe America's most bizarre city pair with a strange lack of service despite significant ties between the two markets. I always thought that Spirit being on the route tanked yields so badly that nobody else wanted to fly it. Now with Spirit being gone, maybe we see some interest from someone else. I still think American is the most natural fit, but they've scaled their LAX hub way, way back. JetBlue is a much better fit than Spirit was, but there's probably enough paid F demand on the route for someone with a two class cabin. My other lingering thought is that it needs to be flown twice daily by someone (or maybe the AA/AS/B6 combo) to capture business demand. At once daily, enough of the traffic fragments onto one stops for schedule convenience.

What are the significant ties between the two markets? Other than XYZ PDEW

There used to be some fairly significant film industry traffic between the two but the PIT area film production activities appear to have largely dried up since the start of the "plandemic".

Flaps wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

I'm also interested to see where PIT-LAX goes. It's maybe America's most bizarre city pair with a strange lack of service despite significant ties between the two markets. I always thought that Spirit being on the route tanked yields so badly that nobody else wanted to fly it. Now with Spirit being gone, maybe we see some interest from someone else. I still think American is the most natural fit, but they've scaled their LAX hub way, way back. JetBlue is a much better fit than Spirit was, but there's probably enough paid F demand on the route for someone with a two class cabin. My other lingering thought is that it needs to be flown twice daily by someone (or maybe the AA/AS/B6 combo) to capture business demand. At once daily, enough of the traffic fragments onto one stops for schedule convenience.

What are the significant ties between the two markets? Other than XYZ PDEW

There used to be some fairly significant film industry traffic between the two but the PIT area film production activities appear to have largely dried up since the start of the "plandemic".

Pittsburgh actually had a great year with regards to the film industry last year. $330 million dollars worth of economic impact, which is double what it usually is. A big new sound stage is being built at the Carrie Furnaces site to accommodate all of the film work being done in the area.

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2207190121

Having better air service between PIT and LAX would likely be of some help in facilitating even more film production work in the Pittsburgh area.

Flaps wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

GSP psgr wrote:

I'm also interested to see where PIT-LAX goes. It's maybe America's most bizarre city pair with a strange lack of service despite significant ties between the two markets. I always thought that Spirit being on the route tanked yields so badly that nobody else wanted to fly it. Now with Spirit being gone, maybe we see some interest from someone else. I still think American is the most natural fit, but they've scaled their LAX hub way, way back. JetBlue is a much better fit than Spirit was, but there's probably enough paid F demand on the route for someone with a two class cabin. My other lingering thought is that it needs to be flown twice daily by someone (or maybe the AA/AS/B6 combo) to capture business demand. At once daily, enough of the traffic fragments onto one stops for schedule convenience.

What are the significant ties between the two markets? Other than XYZ PDEW

There used to be some fairly significant film industry traffic between the two but the PIT area film production activities appear to have largely dried up since the start of the "plandemic".

Idk about "fairly signficant" traffic.

This article mentions film traffic, but only says that lack of nonstop service is the biggest complaint, not that there is significant traffic.
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 1910100150

Regardless, the film industry doesn't drive nearly as much air travel from LA in general as you might think. DL doesn't even fly ATL-BUR anymore, and the US3 barely even fly LA-YYZ/YVR.

The nature of film traffic is such that is unpredictable. Film crews can stay on location for months at a time and then be done and just return home, films shooting ebbs and flows at random times of the year, and obviously it isn't all coming from LA.

It's really hard to pitch a route to an airline based on film traffic, especially if a significant chunk of the films are independent from a major studio/corporation.

GSP psgr wrote:

My other lingering thought is that it needs to be flown twice daily by someone (or maybe the AA/AS/B6 combo) to capture business demand. At once daily, enough of the traffic fragments onto one stops for schedule convenience.

I'm kinda feeling this way about some of the service that is struggling - especially for close markets and hubs.

I hear that Breeze is cutting back BDL, but I feel what needs to happen to make this route work is to be able to capture the business traffic in addition to leisure. A 2-4x weekly flight in the middle of the day isn't going to get any of that.

Same goes for NK to EWR. I noticed a few A320's and 319's on that route already. Scaling back or right sizing from the A321? I don't know, but I feel like those routes could be helped by 2x daily flights or at least a morning or late afternoon/evening departure.

For LAX, it does sound like B6 would have the first class, along with some better connecting options, plus the ability to fly the A220.

TransStates served PIT-BDL 2-3x daily when they were doing the AA at-risk flying with good loads. When they ceased, the PDEW dropped by several hundred percentage points, if not by 4 figures.

As for B6 and PIT-LAX… not sure why first class is even being mentioned. Not only is the route not in JetBlue’s wheelhouse, but a Mint A321 is as likely as an Emirates nonstop to DXB.

Why would NK need to capture business traffic on EWR? UA is the clear option for that. It's not an expensive route to fly, even before NK hopped into it.

AA is cutting 17% of their flights system wide in Nov, but as usual PIT takes it in the shorts with a 28% reduction.
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ ... ravel.html

Breeze completely cut PIT-BDL, they are hanging by a thread in PIT.

Amazon has cut PIT-Ft. Worth, leaving only the PIT-LAL route.

flyPIT wrote:

Breeze completely cut PIT-BDL, they are hanging by a thread in PIT.

Amazon has cut PIT-Ft. Worth, leaving only the PIT-LAL route.

I heard PIT BDL is now seasonal

PITFlyer330 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Breeze completely cut PIT-BDL, they are hanging by a thread in PIT.

Amazon has cut PIT-Ft. Worth, leaving only the PIT-LAL route.

I heard PIT BDL is now seasonal

Thats what was said about ORF too. I'd be surprised if either come back.

Lots of G4 reductions in their latest schedule extension. CHS is now seasonal; PIE and PGD are now only 2x weekly on most weeks next Spring. These were traditional 4-5x weekly in past years.

July numbers are out. Passengers up 6% and cargo down 15% over last year.
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Being up only 6% from 2021 is pretty pathetic imho. On the cargo side, I expect similarly large y-o-y decreases in the near future due to the ACAA losing Unique Logistics (the Cathay, Qatar, and Euroatlantic flights), SpiceXpress, and a few weekly FedEx and UPS flights.

flyPIT wrote:

July numbers are out. Passengers up 6% and cargo down 15% over last year.
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Being up only 6% from 2021 is pretty pathetic imho. On the cargo side, I expect similarly large y-o-y decreases in the near future due to the ACAA losing Unique Logistics (the Cathay, Qatar, and Euroatlantic flights), SpiceXpress, and a few weekly FedEx and UPS flights.

6% vs 2021 is really bad. Wouldn't be surprised if we posted a negative month soon. ACAA has been in a fantasy land comparing to 2021, when everyone in this industry should be looking at 2019. But even with the 2021comparisons they will need to answer for why the traffic is so soft.

PITfall wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

July numbers are out. Passengers up 6% and cargo down 15% over last year.
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Being up only 6% from 2021 is pretty pathetic imho. On the cargo side, I expect similarly large y-o-y decreases in the near future due to the ACAA losing Unique Logistics (the Cathay, Qatar, and Euroatlantic flights), SpiceXpress, and a few weekly FedEx and UPS flights.

6% vs 2021 is really bad. Wouldn't be surprised if we posted a negative month soon. ACAA has been in a fantasy land comparing to 2021, when everyone in this industry should be looking at 2019. But even with the 2021comparisons they will need to answer for why the traffic is so soft.

Is it really that bad? What are others?
MCI was 4.8%. With seats depressed I’m not sure it is THAT bad.

flyPIT wrote:

PITFlyer330 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

Breeze completely cut PIT-BDL, they are hanging by a thread in PIT.

Amazon has cut PIT-Ft. Worth, leaving only the PIT-LAL route.

I heard PIT BDL is now seasonal

Thats what was said about ORF too. I'd be surprised if either come back.

Lots of G4 reductions in their latest schedule extension. CHS is now seasonal; PIE and PGD are now only 2x weekly on most weeks next Spring. These were traditional 4-5x weekly in past years.

I wouldn’t. The issue is aircraft availability. 3 additional 195’s are supposed to hit the line soon, but until then, the fleet is limited.

BDL was supposed to go A220 and the A220 delivery schedule has been delayed by Airbus as well.

flightsimer wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

PITFlyer330 wrote:

I heard PIT BDL is now seasonal

Thats what was said about ORF too. I'd be surprised if either come back.

I wouldn’t. The issue is aircraft availability. 3 additional 195’s are supposed to hit the line soon, but until then, the fleet is limited.

BDL was supposed to go A220 and the A220 delivery schedule has been delayed by Airbus as well.

I don't doubt that at all. But it doesn't change the fact that all MX has done at PIT is cut cut cut while growing and expanding elsewhere.

flyPIT wrote:

July numbers are out. Passengers up 6% and cargo down 15% over last year.
https://flypittsburgh.com/wp-content/up ... Report.pdf

Being up only 6% from 2021 is pretty pathetic imho. On the cargo side, I expect similarly large y-o-y decreases in the near future due to the ACAA losing Unique Logistics (the Cathay, Qatar, and Euroatlantic flights), SpiceXpress, and a few weekly FedEx and UPS flights.

That’s not bad at all, CVG was only up 5.8% for July. This is right in line with peer airports.

Most carriers cut schedules for the summer and are not flying that many more seats than last year at this time.

NK cutting the seasonal LBE-RSW route:
https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ ... od-91.html

June's stats got released yesterday, so I did a mid-year update to see what's changed since February and how things have improved (or not) since the pandemic hit.

Once again, top 30 domestic destinations from PIT, comparing the numbers from the most recent 12 months (Jul 2021-Jun 2022) with 2019 as well as Mar 2021-Feb 2022 .

1. ATL: 347,474 (481,718 - down 27.87% from 2019) 8.42% increase since February 2022
2. MCO: 254,925 (261,901 - down 2.66%) 3.93% increase
3. CLT: 235,073 (295,649 - down 20.49%) 1.91% increase
4. ORD: 220,734 (335,347 - down 34.18%) 14.51% increase
5. DEN: 175,573 (213,006 - down 17.57%) 2.96% increase
6. DFW: 167,066 (177,181 - down 5.71%) 7.19% increase
7. LGA: 146,356 (185,731 - down 21.20%) 60.77% increase
8. MDW: 141,842 (172,473 - down 17.76%) 25.29% increase
9. FLL: 129,831 (118,340 - up 9.71%) 1.05% decrease
10. TPA: 106,529 (130,127 - down 18.13%) 0.75% increase
11. PHX: 106,168 (107,037 - down 0.81%) 14.15% increase
12. LAS: 105,774 (120,163 - down 11.97%) 17.00% increase
13. BWI: 105,008 (110,536 - down 5.00%) 17.39% increase
14. IAH: 98,501 (122,096 - down 19.32%) 13.64% increase
15. BOS: 97,942 (211,723 - down 53.74%) 35.69% increase
16. EWR: 96,967 (162,283 - down 40.25%) 39.27% increase
17. PHL: 95,464 (146,040 - down 34.63%) 2.09% increase
18. BNA: 93,375 (89,711 - up 4.08%) 1.21% increase
19. DTW: 85,078 (118,807 - down 28.39%) 16.94% increase
20. RSW: 85,027 (73,674 - up 15.41%) 12.04% decrease
21. MIA: 81,411 (57,043 - up 42.72%) 15.42% increase
22. JFK: 80,378 (67,403 - up 19.25%) 71.09% increase
23. MSP: 77,097 (101,858 - down 24.31%) 9.43% increase
24. DCA: 72,102 (72,033 - up 0.10%) 27.39% increase
25. IAD: 71,275 (89,152 - down 20.05%) 24.55% increase
26. SEA: 46,552 (50,971 - down 8.67%) 13.29% increase
27. SRQ: 45,461 (15,993 - up 184.26%) 0.43% increase
28. MYR: 43,524 (32,590 - up 33.55%) 9.90% decrease
29. STL: 42,459 (50,376 - down 15.72%) 37.85% increase
30. LAX: 34,744 (58,814 - down 40.93%) 35.43% increase

Routes to the Northeast Corridor are beginning to recover. LGA is bouncing back extremely strongly and JFK is surprisingly doing better than before the pandemic hit. EWR and BOS also increased by over 30% since February, while DCA and IAD increased by over 20%.
Conversely, the busier airports in the southeast are starting to struggle. FLL, RSW and MYR have all lost passengers over the past four months while TPA and SRQ increased by less than 1%. MCO's growth hasn't been as strong as it initially looked. MIA and CHS (32nd) are bucking the trend with increases from 2019 and double-digit growth from four months prior. Secondary airports served by G4 such as PGD (33rd), PIE (34th), SFB (35th) and PBI (39th) have also had passenger numbers increase during the same time period.

Special mentions to:
RDU, ranked 31st but is doing better than 2019 by 3.65%
SFO, which is already ranked 38th since restarting in March.

And as a bonus, international destinations from PIT. Data is only available up to March 2022 though. Again, most recent 12 months compared to 2019 data.

1. CUN: 14,984 (17,681 - down 15.25%)
2. YYZ: 7,071 (38,013 - down 81.40%)
3. PUJ: 6.362 (8,550 - down 25.59%)

Just curious, but was there ever a nonstop flight from PIT to KCI MCI?

CaptainMidnight wrote:

Just curious, but was there ever a nonstop flight from PIT to KCI MCI?

Sure. Both US and YX flew the route at one point. US with mainline equipment up to a 757 and YX with a mix of CRJs and 717s.

US started service in the early 80s. YX came in around 2005 and flew it through the Great Recession.

Didn't OneJet give MCI a try as well? Or did I just make that up.

AaronPGH wrote:

Didn't OneJet give MCI a try as well? Or did I just make that up.

I forget if it ever started

strangeplanes wrote:

AaronPGH wrote:

Didn't OneJet give MCI a try as well? Or did I just make that up.

I forget if it ever started

It started in mid-late March 2018, service ended in late June that year. I think I recall them using the ERJ135 for that route.

CaptainMidnight wrote:

Just curious, but was there ever a nonstop flight from PIT to KCI MCI?

Vanguard also flew MCI-PIT with the MD87 and I think the 732 as well. Reaching far back into my old memory banks I believe BN flew it on a PIT-MCI-DFW routing.

US Transportation Command 747 landed early this morning from Cologne, Germany

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/CMB ... /EDDK/KPIT

ACAA, local gov't and businesses are pushing for the LHR flight to be daily.
https://www.post-gazette.com/business/d ... 2209230110