B6BOSfan wrote:

PilotJAY16 wrote:

B6BOSfan wrote:

I do wonder where all these crews for the international delta flights are coming from. If you're staffing a transcon flight in Boston with a crew that has to deadhead from Atlanta or New York, it will create some scheduling messes quite often this summer.

This is a good question as far as for the pilots, but as far as flight attendants, they have a BOS base so they don’t have to worry about that. I wonder if they would open up a small Airbus 330 pilot base…

But Boston doesn't staff every flight. I've had numerous Boston flights where they say "Atlanta-based" crew or "JFK-based" crew at the end of the flight.

Hence, why I wonder where all the crews working the flights are coming from.

You're right, pilots add an additional mix of people into the consideration too.

You are right! I use to work for a regional delta carrier as a FA and currently have FA friends at Delta who sometimes DH ATL-BOS or JFK-BOS then Work TATL same day. But most of the time they tell me that the bid package is normally is staffed with BOS crew for international flights.

I know pilots usually require a layover in BOS to continue international depending on the length and time.

But every base and airline is short staffed so I wouldn’t be surprised if you’d hear a west coast base working east coast flight, it’s common. I had a HNL based FA working my ATL-CUN flight one time.

B6BOSfan wrote:

PilotJAY16 wrote:

B6BOSfan wrote:

I do wonder where all these crews for the international delta flights are coming from. If you're staffing a transcon flight in Boston with a crew that has to deadhead from Atlanta or New York, it will create some scheduling messes quite often this summer.

This is a good question as far as for the pilots, but as far as flight attendants, they have a BOS base so they don’t have to worry about that. I wonder if they would open up a small Airbus 330 pilot base…

But Boston doesn't staff every flight. I've had numerous Boston flights where they say "Atlanta-based" crew or "JFK-based" crew at the end of the flight.

Hence, why I wonder where all the crews working the flights are coming from.

You're right, pilots add an additional mix of people into the consideration too.

I was more sure referring to the international flights lol

PilotJAY16 wrote:

tlecam wrote:

I think last night DL had 3 763s (Dub, LIS, EDI), a 764 (LHR) and 6 333/339s (2x AMS, 1x CDG, 1x FCO, 1x ATH, 1x TLV). Maybe a FA base in the future?

Delta already has a BOS FA base.

Several years ago, a DL employee told me that the DL FA base in Boston was a "virtual " base, whatever that means.

Rumor is Delta will open a pilot base in Boston next year (probably a 320 or 220 base). Apparently they had plans to open one before covid but shelved it when they started parking planes. I know they deadhead a lot of pilots in from JFK to crew the flights to Europe

RobertS975 wrote:

PilotJAY16 wrote:

tlecam wrote:

I think last night DL had 3 763s (Dub, LIS, EDI), a 764 (LHR) and 6 333/339s (2x AMS, 1x CDG, 1x FCO, 1x ATH, 1x TLV). Maybe a FA base in the future?

Delta already has a BOS FA base.

Several years ago, a DL employee told me that the DL FA base in Boston was a "virtual " base, whatever that means.

It may have been that a good 10 years ago.

FA headcount was in the 600s pre-COVID and currently nearing 1,000. For reference ATL is nearly 7,000 currently.

Not a stellar night (again) for Delta's Boston International operations. Some of it appears to be planes coming up from Atlanta super late, while others (like BOS-LHR) seem to be due to other reasons that aren't known:

DL112 to Rome: Scheduled for 555pm, Departed at 829pm (inbound aircraft was 1h late // seems like crazy tight scheduling)
DL224 to Paris: Scheduled for 650pm, Departed at 809pm (aircraft in BOS since 2pm)
DL258 to Amsterdam: Scheduled for 7pm, Departed at 8:31pm (inbound aircraft from ATL landed :35 minutes late)
DL58 to London: Scheduled for 7:25pm, Departed at 9:03pm (aircraft in BOS since 12:30pm)

DL154 to Dublin: Scheduled for 9:10pm (Inbound from Atlanta arrived 1h 25 late)
DL124 to Lisbon: Scheduled for 11:10pm (aircraft in BOS since 3:30pm)

Got a nice insider perspective recently.

Turns out Delta isn’t playing nice. Port authority is not thrilled with them. They’re trying to run terminal E the same way they run A, leading to dissatisfaction from every other carrier. Allegedly they’ve been told to get their sh!t together or they’ll be sent back to A, and the gate situation over there will be on them to resolve. The general feeling is that the airport is bending over backwards to support deltas expansion, and they’re basically ruining it for everyone else.

I worked over at E for an long time, and numerous people who have been there much longer than I was have described it as “by far the worst they’ve ever seen it”

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but why has Massport been so obstinate about adding customs at Terminal A? I can see why it might not make sense when DL had only a few international flights. But they’re reaching double digits now.

FGITD wrote:

Got a nice insider perspective recently.

Turns out Delta isn’t playing nice. Port authority is not thrilled with them. They’re trying to run terminal E the same way they run A, leading to dissatisfaction from every other carrier. Allegedly they’ve been told to get their sh!t together or they’ll be sent back to A, and the gate situation over there will be on them to resolve. The general feeling is that the airport is bending over backwards to support deltas expansion, and they’re basically ruining it for everyone else.

I worked over at E for an long time, and numerous people who have been there much longer than I was have described it as “by far the worst they’ve ever seen it”

I suspected as much. DL is all about control. Operational control, customer experience control. I’m sure they’re a huge pain in the ass at E.

chrisnh wrote:

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but why has Massport been so obstinate about adding customs at Terminal A? I can see why it might not make sense when DL had only a few international flights. But they’re reaching double digits now.

I agree, but where exactly do you put it, given domestic and international have to coexist on the same level in the Satellite, that place is/was a zoo when all the international flights were around and carving out a bunch of space for an immigration section which has to be sterile and not bypassed is going to be difficult to say the least and how do you manage that with evening domestic departures without destroying the ability to expand that offering.by having WB’s on gates for hours on end.

It actually would be good to have it on A and C given B6’s level of FIS requirements which with Europe slowly coming on board is probably getting more than DL because of the Caribbean network that really only has Aruba and the Bahamas with preclearance

chrisnh wrote:

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but why has Massport been so obstinate about adding customs at Terminal A? I can see why it might not make sense when DL had only a few international flights. But they’re reaching double digits now.

From what I heard, when Terminal A was built customs didn't have the staffing to have a separate facility over at A. I've also heard a rumor that there will be an extension to Terminal A with widebody gates where FedEx is.

Kno wrote:

This feels like a problem we all could have seen coming from a mile away. Once it was announced they were moving all these flights to E I had to wonder, with what room? And how will pax connect efficiently?

The original rollout had select destinations leaving from E and others leaving from A. Why not meet in the middle and try that?

It would make sense to have LHR, CDG, AMS over at E, I believe that's more O&D. It would also make a lot more sense to have the other destinations over in A because you're probably getting more connecting passengers on those flights. That way a lot less passengers would have to make that horrendous terminal change.

tjerome wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but why has Massport been so obstinate about adding customs at Terminal A? I can see why it might not make sense when DL had only a few international flights. But they’re reaching double digits now.

From what I heard, when Terminal A was built customs didn't have the staffing to have a separate facility over at A. I've also heard a rumor that there will be an extension to Terminal A with widebody gates where FedEx is.

This is something that's been discussed as a hypothetical in here before. My first question would be, who will pay for it? Massport is already in the midst of some large projects at Logan. The already mentioned phase 2 of the terminal E expansion has been pushed down the road and probably won't see shovels in the ground until 2024 at the earliest. Don't forget, the TWT vent shaft is right in this area and would need to be dealt with too. Ideally, there would be 4 dedicated widebody gates added onto A that would alleviate some stress on E.

B752OS wrote:

This is something that's been discussed as a hypothetical in here before. My first question would be, who will pay for it? Massport is already in the midst of some large projects at Logan. The already mentioned phase 2 of the terminal E expansion has been pushed down the road and probably won't see shovels in the ground until 2024 at the earliest. Don't forget, the TWT vent shaft is right in this area and would need to be dealt with too. Ideally, there would be 4 dedicated widebody gates added onto A that would alleviate some stress on E.

Wouldn't be surprised if Delta is willing to spend money on this. They've poured money into LAX, LGA, SLC, etc. and there's clearly a problem in BOS. I remember when COVID was just beginning, some on here thought that DL would back down on their plans for BOS similar to the bankruptcy right after Terminal A opened. DL certainly is trying to seize the opportunity to become the #1 carrier at BOS and having more widebody gates w/ a CBP facility in it would be something I can absolutely see DL wanting to spend money on.

Hey guys, quick question. With DL reaching 160 daily flights this summer, how much more room for expansion do they have? Is it easy to make connections at BOS? I assume the operation will not be as banked as JFK for European flights.

avi8 wrote:

Hey guys, quick question. With DL reaching 160 daily flights this summer, how much more room for expansion do they have? Is it easy to make connections at BOS? I assume the operation will not be as banked as JFK for European flights.

Well while they have jettisoned their TATL operation to E (with the exception of DUB), they have 20 gates available. A1 is still used for Westjet I believe for the most part.
So if you assume 10 turns a day off of that, then you are looking at a max of 200 per day. Realistically probably around 180 to 190. Even though the European operation is growing its not really big enough for banking. I mean you can argue that a bunch go out at around 4 to 5 and another from 7-8 with a few stragglers but I would hardly call that banked.
Connections are a little more complicated than normal as you would arrive domestically at A and have to walk over to E to reclear security (via Central Parking walkways) takes about 10 minutes and Vice versa on the way back. It’s far from seamless but BOS isn’t the only place that does that on the return, having experienced that at PHL where you go through immigration and then transfer to a different terminal for the domestic leg.

Hope that helps

tjerome wrote:

]

From what I heard, when Terminal A was built customs didn't have the staffing to have a separate facility over at A. I've also heard a rumor that there will be an extension to Terminal A with widebody gates where FedEx is.

There are a bunch of cargo operators in addition to FedEx over there. I wonder where they’d move to.

tlecam wrote:

tjerome wrote:

]

From what I heard, when Terminal A was built customs didn't have the staffing to have a separate facility over at A. I've also heard a rumor that there will be an extension to Terminal A with widebody gates where FedEx is.

There are a bunch of cargo operators in addition to FedEx over there. I wonder where they’d move to.

This has been the long held question, north cargo can’t take them because their space will be cut significantly when the Phase 2 of E is built, and having BOS so close to the city is a great position for a cargo operator so they would need some massive incentives to move.
Not ideal, but I have seen DL WB’s parked at the cargo stands in the past. So maybe they could do some bussing over there. It is real estate that’s not used greatly during the day time hours. But as has been said before. South Cargo is not just Fed Ex, it’s the cargo ops for a lot of airlines, so it’s not as simple as chucking out FX and moving on.
If you don’t relocate them to a different airport as has also been discussed, is there anywhere else on the property with that kind of space given that filling in the water side is likely a non starter. The only place I can see it working is moving the whole thing back to cover up 14/32, but that doubles as the deicing area in winter ops.
As an aside, check out Google maps, it actually shows a B6 aircraft parked over by the Eagles Nest terminal. I still wonder if one day that could be used for something again. But i digress

tlecam wrote:

tjerome wrote:

]

From what I heard, when Terminal A was built customs didn't have the staffing to have a separate facility over at A. I've also heard a rumor that there will be an extension to Terminal A with widebody gates where FedEx is.

There are a bunch of cargo operators in addition to FedEx over there. I wonder where they’d move to.

ALL of the cargo ops are over there. Except DHL and UPS who don’t really operate the same as the rest.

Almost every single one of these international flights we’ve been discussing carries cargo. And it’s all handled at south cargo. And beyond that, AA, UA, WN, and a few others have their cargo ops there as well.

FedEx is the most prominent due to the way their operation works, but I’d wager that more freight passes through Delta Cargo on a daily basis at this point. You can’t relocate them to somewhere else…


Quick edit too…fyi the old eagle terminal is the home of airport operations. I think they’re moving to a new built area between B and C where the old BOS center building was, but for now they’re still in there

VS4ever wrote:

Well while they have jettisoned their TATL operation to E (with the exception of DUB), they have 20 gates available. A1 is still used for Westjet I believe for the most part.
So if you assume 10 turns a day off of that, then you are looking at a max of 200 per day. Realistically probably around 180 to 190. Even though the European operation is growing its not really big enough for banking. I mean you can argue that a bunch go out at around 4 to 5 and another from 7-8 with a few stragglers but I would hardly call that banked.
Connections are a little more complicated than normal as you would arrive domestically at A and have to walk over to E to reclear security (via Central Parking walkways) takes about 10 minutes and Vice versa on the way back. It’s far from seamless but BOS isn’t the only place that does that on the return, having experienced that at PHL where you go through immigration and then transfer to a different terminal for the domestic leg.

Hope that helps

Well, if you see this, for the DL expansion: https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-line ... gest-user/

This just shows that the ask is going to get higher - but I think the constraint has been available gate space and there just isn't enough to expand. At the end, Massport can maneuver with multi-million dollar Capex spend but that can only get so far. There is a limit or a ceiling to how much you can expand with the footprint. This just is not going to become ATL or a ORD where there was land available to construct or add to the footprint.

Could anyone give us younger posters a history lesson on how exactly the old eagle nest terminal functioned when it was still in use at BOS? I've only ever known it as an operational building and parking for deicing. How did passengers arrive/get to the terminal for flights? Was it similar to the LAX eagle nest with buses from the main terminal?

pitbosflyer wrote:

Could anyone give us younger posters a history lesson on how exactly the old eagle nest terminal functioned when it was still in use at BOS? I've only ever known it as an operational building and parking for deicing. How did passengers arrive/get to the terminal for flights? Was it similar to the LAX eagle nest with buses from the main terminal?

There's not a lot of info, but a shuttle bus was used to ferry passengers back and forth. It's actually known as the Amelia Earhart General Aviation Building, but most know it as the Eagles Nest. Opened in 1980 and essentially shuttered in around 2006

Here's an article with a paragraph about that time (2006), looked to be 30-33 departures a day at that point, until they were consolidated back to B22-B29 (which interestingly now are the UA gates

http://archive.boston.com/business/arti ... l_effects/

pitbosflyer wrote:

Could anyone give us younger posters a history lesson on how exactly the old eagle nest terminal functioned when it was still in use at BOS? I've only ever known it as an operational building and parking for deicing. How did passengers arrive/get to the terminal for flights? Was it similar to the LAX eagle nest with buses from the main terminal?

AA was the largest carrier at Logan for quite some time. In fact, DL now looks somewhat like AA did in decades past except that AA had a lot more service to small cities in the northeast (e.g. Albany, Buffalo etc…)

In any event, there was a large AAEagle operation out of BOS. Passengers used to clear security in terminal B with the rest of the AA flights and then board a bus out to the nest. The nest was an interesting place. There was one food/drink place out there with a very limited menu and the bathrooms were always jammed. At rush hour, like on a Thursday evening, or during IRROPS, it was packed to the gills. When your flight was called, you just walked out to mostly CRJ 135/145s.

This may be my own memory bias, but I seem to recall that those were some of the first flights delayed or cancelled when things went sideways. I remember commuting BOS-EWR early in my career and eventually started driving to LGA because the shuttles were much more reliable - especially back then.

iyerhari wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Well while they have jettisoned their TATL operation to E (with the exception of DUB), they have 20 gates available. A1 is still used for Westjet I believe for the most part.
So if you assume 10 turns a day off of that, then you are looking at a max of 200 per day. Realistically probably around 180 to 190. Even though the European operation is growing its not really big enough for banking. I mean you can argue that a bunch go out at around 4 to 5 and another from 7-8 with a few stragglers but I would hardly call that banked.
Connections are a little more complicated than normal as you would arrive domestically at A and have to walk over to E to reclear security (via Central Parking walkways) takes about 10 minutes and Vice versa on the way back. It’s far from seamless but BOS isn’t the only place that does that on the return, having experienced that at PHL where you go through immigration and then transfer to a different terminal for the domestic leg.

Hope that helps

Well, if you see this, for the DL expansion: https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-line ... gest-user/

This just shows that the ask is going to get higher - but I think the constraint has been available gate space and there just isn't enough to expand. At the end, Massport can maneuver with multi-million dollar Capex spend but that can only get so far. There is a limit or a ceiling to how much you can expand with the footprint. This just is not going to become ATL or a ORD where there was land available to construct or add to the footprint.

Interestingly, 4,042 equates to an average of 134 a day departures and with the current staffing issues etc, I can't see that getting to 180+ for a while yet and do DL really want to run an operation with every gate at 8-9 turns without International (which has ben discussed separately) still being in E, if it comes back to A, no way are they getting those kind of numbers unless they push the other gates to 10+, that's WN territory (who at BOS used to do 10-11 a day), so you are right Gate Space is absolutely limited, maybe they kick WS out of A1, and grab themselves another 8-9 there, but they are going to be constrained, the only way from there is to go from frequency to size of plane to grow.

Do we have numbers on how many DL pax are actually connecting to an int'l flight from a domestic arrival in A? Would it be enough to warrant a post-security bus shuttle between A and E?

I know it's a long way to drive all the way around B and C, and might take just as long as the walk, but it would certainly be faster than re-clearing security. It's not the most eloquent solution, but is one that they can implement quickly and cheaply...

I wonder if they would consider demolishing the old Eagles nest and then shifting some of the cargo facilities down there. Would give them room to expand A

VS4ever wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

Well while they have jettisoned their TATL operation to E (with the exception of DUB), they have 20 gates available. A1 is still used for Westjet I believe for the most part.
So if you assume 10 turns a day off of that, then you are looking at a max of 200 per day. Realistically probably around 180 to 190. Even though the European operation is growing its not really big enough for banking. I mean you can argue that a bunch go out at around 4 to 5 and another from 7-8 with a few stragglers but I would hardly call that banked.
Connections are a little more complicated than normal as you would arrive domestically at A and have to walk over to E to reclear security (via Central Parking walkways) takes about 10 minutes and Vice versa on the way back. It’s far from seamless but BOS isn’t the only place that does that on the return, having experienced that at PHL where you go through immigration and then transfer to a different terminal for the domestic leg.

Hope that helps

Well, if you see this, for the DL expansion: https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-line ... gest-user/

This just shows that the ask is going to get higher - but I think the constraint has been available gate space and there just isn't enough to expand. At the end, Massport can maneuver with multi-million dollar Capex spend but that can only get so far. There is a limit or a ceiling to how much you can expand with the footprint. This just is not going to become ATL or a ORD where there was land available to construct or add to the footprint.

Interestingly, 4,042 equates to an average of 134 a day departures and with the current staffing issues etc, I can't see that getting to 180+ for a while yet and do DL really want to run an operation with every gate at 8-9 turns without International (which has ben discussed separately) still being in E, if it comes back to A, no way are they getting those kind of numbers unless they push the other gates to 10+, that's WN territory (who at BOS used to do 10-11 a day), so you are right Gate Space is absolutely limited, maybe they kick WS out of A1, and grab themselves another 8-9 there, but they are going to be constrained, the only way from there is to go from frequency to size of plane to grow.

You beat me to the math. I wonder if part of the problem is the size of the planes - those 321s and 739s can pack a lot of people in, but it makes it a lot harder to do quick turns.

I also noticed that some of my precovid regular routes that frequency is still not fully returned.

ORD is running 3 flights a day when it used to run 5.
SEA is running 2 when it used to run 3
CMH is running 2 when it used to run at least 3 and sometimes 4


No surprises, and maybe they don’t return given BOS is already driving 15% growth in seats out of BOS. However, the int’l expansion could account for a lot of those seats. Just the TLV and ATH flights at 3x per week account for close to 7k seats per month.

Based on the airfare on ATH, I wouldn’t be surprised if they bump that to 7x/week next summer. Sounds like demand for that flight is exploding. TLV isn’t doing too poorly either - economy tickets between 1500 and 2000. Terminal E can handle two more 333/339s every night, right?

aaflyer777 wrote:

I wonder if they would consider demolishing the old Eagles nest and then shifting some of the cargo facilities down there. Would give them room to expand A

Maybe, but it’s quite a bit smaller than the current cargo facilities. Would depend on whether it could be expanded I’m guessing.

If you go on Google Earth it’s next to South Cargo and there’s 3 spots to park planes behind it. I’d say it’s 20% the size of cargo.

tlecam wrote:

Based on the airfare on ATH, I wouldn’t be surprised if they bump that to 7x/week next summer. Sounds like demand for that flight is exploding. TLV isn’t doing too poorly either - economy tickets between 1500 and 2000. Terminal E can handle two more 333/339s every night, right?

Terminal A even pre-COVID could get really tough and very cramped. There used to be ONE Starbucks and looking at the lines, one would end up missing the flight But the Terminal is still nice - tall ceilings and does not look very old and quite new.

As regards fares, sky seems to be the limit. I need to travel for work from BOS-HYD and taking the early am BA flight from BOS. I have never seen such fares ever in my lifetime but when you go for work, you just go!

iyerhari wrote:

tlecam wrote:

Based on the airfare on ATH, I wouldn’t be surprised if they bump that to 7x/week next summer. Sounds like demand for that flight is exploding. TLV isn’t doing too poorly either - economy tickets between 1500 and 2000. Terminal E can handle two more 333/339s every night, right?

Terminal A even pre-COVID could get really tough and very cramped. There used to be ONE Starbucks and looking at the lines, one would end up missing the flight But the Terminal is still nice - tall ceilings and does not look very old and quite new.

As regards fares, sky seems to be the limit. I need to travel for work from BOS-HYD and taking the early am BA flight from BOS. I have never seen such fares ever in my lifetime but when you go for work, you just go!

Good luck on the HYD trip! And you’re right about “when you go for work, you just go”. My colleague just got back from a DEL/BLR/MAA trip and she said it was insanity. 12k for J class tickets purchased well in advance (not including the intra-India travel). She connected in FRA and said it was “not the way to go”. I lucked out in a sense - recovering from surgery so I didn’t have to go. And I usually love traveling to India. I would have gone through CDG though - gotta get those sky miles!

Terminal A was JAMMED when they were flying those big wide bodies in the evening. That food court couldn’t keep up, lines galore. Not a seat to be had. Reminded me of ORD in that sense.

And it drove me crazy in the Am when the only Starbucks was out at the satellite as I was almost always on the shuttle or going to ORD, which left from the main terminal.

tlecam wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

tlecam wrote:

Based on the airfare on ATH, I wouldn’t be surprised if they bump that to 7x/week next summer. Sounds like demand for that flight is exploding. TLV isn’t doing too poorly either - economy tickets between 1500 and 2000. Terminal E can handle two more 333/339s every night, right?

Terminal A even pre-COVID could get really tough and very cramped. There used to be ONE Starbucks and looking at the lines, one would end up missing the flight But the Terminal is still nice - tall ceilings and does not look very old and quite new.

As regards fares, sky seems to be the limit. I need to travel for work from BOS-HYD and taking the early am BA flight from BOS. I have never seen such fares ever in my lifetime but when you go for work, you just go!

Good luck on the HYD trip! And you’re right about “when you go for work, you just go”. My colleague just got back from a DEL/BLR/MAA trip and she said it was insanity. 12k for J class tickets purchased well in advance (not including the intra-India travel). She connected in FRA and said it was “not the way to go”. I lucked out in a sense - recovering from surgery so I didn’t have to go. And I usually love traveling to India. I would have gone through CDG though - gotta get those sky miles!

Terminal A was JAMMED when they were flying those big wide bodies in the evening. That food court couldn’t keep up, lines galore. Not a seat to be had. Reminded me of ORD in that sense.

And it drove me crazy in the Am when the only Starbucks was out at the satellite as I was almost always on the shuttle or going to ORD, which left from the main terminal.

Don't forget to use the app and order ahead if you want Starbucks, saves a bunch of time standing in line . A used to be horrible in the evening with all those TATL flights, I remember being surrounded by CDG, LHR and others when waiting for the 2nd AMS flight of the day. I am not sure E is any better, and the food choices are not great either.

VS4ever wrote:

tlecam wrote:

iyerhari wrote:

Terminal A even pre-COVID could get really tough and very cramped. There used to be ONE Starbucks and looking at the lines, one would end up missing the flight But the Terminal is still nice - tall ceilings and does not look very old and quite new.

As regards fares, sky seems to be the limit. I need to travel for work from BOS-HYD and taking the early am BA flight from BOS. I have never seen such fares ever in my lifetime but when you go for work, you just go!

Good luck on the HYD trip! And you’re right about “when you go for work, you just go”. My colleague just got back from a DEL/BLR/MAA trip and she said it was insanity. 12k for J class tickets purchased well in advance (not including the intra-India travel). She connected in FRA and said it was “not the way to go”. I lucked out in a sense - recovering from surgery so I didn’t have to go. And I usually love traveling to India. I would have gone through CDG though - gotta get those sky miles!

Terminal A was JAMMED when they were flying those big wide bodies in the evening. That food court couldn’t keep up, lines galore. Not a seat to be had. Reminded me of ORD in that sense.

And it drove me crazy in the Am when the only Starbucks was out at the satellite as I was almost always on the shuttle or going to ORD, which left from the main terminal.

Don't forget to use the app and order ahead if you want Starbucks, saves a bunch of time standing in line . A used to be horrible in the evening with all those TATL flights, I remember being surrounded by CDG, LHR and others when waiting for the 2nd AMS flight of the day. I am not sure E is any better, and the food choices are not great either.

Food choices in E have been abysmal since covid hit. Working cargo flights back then used to be terrible, we’d all shuttle in company vehicles over to one Dunkin that was open in C. Reopening has been very slow.

Also heard that the “new” Delta lounge is actually just the old “The Club” lounge. They’re opening and VS is reopening.

VS4ever wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but why has Massport been so obstinate about adding customs at Terminal A? I can see why it might not make sense when DL had only a few international flights. But they’re reaching double digits now.

I agree, but where exactly do you put it, given domestic and international have to coexist on the same level in the Satellite, that place is/was a zoo when all the international flights were around and carving out a bunch of space for an immigration section which has to be sterile and not bypassed is going to be difficult to say the least and how do you manage that with evening domestic departures without destroying the ability to expand that offering.by having WB’s on gates for hours on end.

It actually would be good to have it on A and C given B6’s level of FIS requirements which with Europe slowly coming on board is probably getting more than DL because of the Caribbean network that really only has Aruba and the Bahamas with preclearance

I wonder if it could be possible to build another level on top of one or both to accommodate FIS arrivals? Sort of like the mezzanine level in E, but reversed, with the sterile area above the normal gates.

dtremit wrote:

I wonder if it could be possible to build another level on top of one or both to accommodate FIS arrivals? Sort of like the mezzanine level in E, but reversed, with the sterile area above the normal gates.

Doubtful considering the Sky Club on either side is in the upper mezzanine level already; also, the footprint of the satellite is really not large enough to hold CBP unless you were doing it on multiple levels. Maybe if they were to build over Harborside Drive but that'd be complicated given the need for trucks to pass under.

aaflyer777 wrote:

I wonder if they would consider demolishing the old Eagles nest and then shifting some of the cargo facilities down there. Would give them room to expand A

I think the best plan would be to build a new Economy Garage on the lots where the Shell station currently sits and move the cargo operators closest to the Hyatt to where the Economy Garage is now. That frees up plenty of land for an international facility with ~6 widebody gates and landside access.

ScottB wrote:

I think the best plan would be to build a new Economy Garage on the lots where the Shell station currently sits and move the cargo operators closest to the Hyatt to where the Economy Garage is now. That frees up plenty of land for an international facility with ~6 widebody gates and landside access.

I think that area is exactly where any real transformational Expansion is going to happen. Move the state police and economy lots, and that frees up a good amount of real estate.

The biggest issue are the hangars. None of those airlines are going to want to give them up. And I can’t say I blame them. Working on airplanes in the freezing cold is difficult and miserable, especially at night. I’m not Sure what Massport could do to offset the loss of that space

Let’s see how DL did last night:

224 to CDG - hour delay
256 to AMS - 45 minute delay
258 to AMS - hour delay
058 to LHR - hour delay
112 to FCO - 30 minute delay
240 to ATH - 45 minute delay
110 to LIS - 30 minute delay
154 to DUB - 45 minute delay
122 to EDI - 45 minute delay

TLV did not operate.

Several of the flights with shorter delays actually landed ontime, probably due to tail winds, which makes me wonder if they were intentionally holding on the BOS side.

tlecam wrote:

Several of the flights with shorter delays actually landed ontime, probably due to tail winds, which makes me wonder if they were intentionally holding on the BOS side.

I can see that being the case for AMS and LHR, given that both have some fairly severe restrictions on nighttime usage and slot timing.

nothing to brag about but I'm telling you, you could literally write the exact same thread for IAD and UA, many nights where 90% of TATL flights push back late, 60% arrrive > 15 minutes late, and of those 30%, half are seriously late. Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention the cancels, which have been very common lately too at IAD. ANd this is on good weather days. Welcome to traveling 2022 style-- Delta/Boston/United/American somewhere else-- it doesn't matter-- and it's not just a Terminal E in Boston issue.

I know that operational issues are not a Boston or DL specific problem, as do most of my fellow BOS forum members. The interest in DL at BOS is because DL is expanding BOS int’l and also moved all of its flights from a terminal it controls (A) to a shared international terminal (E). We have some members who are either current or former ground employees who have indicated that DL is struggling in Terminal E.

flying DL 258 tomorrow night - been watching this thread like a Hawk. will report back once i arrive in Germany. A coworker took the ATH flight last week and said it was on time, but Terminal E was an absolute zoo with check-in wait times of hour+

FGITD wrote:

VS4ever wrote:

tlecam wrote:

Good luck on the HYD trip! And you’re right about “when you go for work, you just go”. My colleague just got back from a DEL/BLR/MAA trip and she said it was insanity. 12k for J class tickets purchased well in advance (not including the intra-India travel). She connected in FRA and said it was “not the way to go”. I lucked out in a sense - recovering from surgery so I didn’t have to go. And I usually love traveling to India. I would have gone through CDG though - gotta get those sky miles!

Terminal A was JAMMED when they were flying those big wide bodies in the evening. That food court couldn’t keep up, lines galore. Not a seat to be had. Reminded me of ORD in that sense.

And it drove me crazy in the Am when the only Starbucks was out at the satellite as I was almost always on the shuttle or going to ORD, which left from the main terminal.

Don't forget to use the app and order ahead if you want Starbucks, saves a bunch of time standing in line . A used to be horrible in the evening with all those TATL flights, I remember being surrounded by CDG, LHR and others when waiting for the 2nd AMS flight of the day. I am not sure E is any better, and the food choices are not great either.

Food choices in E have been abysmal since covid hit. Working cargo flights back then used to be terrible, we’d all shuttle in company vehicles over to one Dunkin that was open in C. Reopening has been very slow.

Also heard that the “new” Delta lounge is actually just the old “The Club” lounge. They’re opening and VS is reopening.

I am continually surprised by how bad the food is in E. The best food in the entire terminal is in the Virgin lounge. Stephie’s is always packed and the food might as well be a different restaurant compared to the Newbury St. restaurant. The Legals has a very limited menu, although its generally consistent. Good luck getting a stool. I will not subject my fellow passengers to what happens after I eat Wow Bao. And I love Bao.

FGITD wrote:

ScottB wrote:

I think the best plan would be to build a new Economy Garage on the lots where the Shell station currently sits and move the cargo operators closest to the Hyatt to where the Economy Garage is now. That frees up plenty of land for an international facility with ~6 widebody gates and landside access.

I think that area is exactly where any real transformational Expansion is going to happen. Move the state police and economy lots, and that frees up a good amount of real estate.

The biggest issue are the hangars. None of those airlines are going to want to give them up. And I can’t say I blame them. Working on airplanes in the freezing cold is difficult and miserable, especially at night. I’m not Sure what Massport could do to offset the loss of that space

Honestly, if they just optimized the use of that space past E, they could probably fit in a fair amount of cargo *and* hangars. Some of the stuff over there doesn't need to be anywhere near the tarmac (economy parking, state police), and then there's a sea of parking lots and temporary buildings between the fuel tanks and Gate Gourmet / Sky Chefs.

There are also a couple of areas very close to the tarmac — like the parcel currently used as a limo and bus waiting area — that might be able to accommodate services that only access the tarmac by truck or van.

dtremit wrote:

FGITD wrote:

ScottB wrote:

I think the best plan would be to build a new Economy Garage on the lots where the Shell station currently sits and move the cargo operators closest to the Hyatt to where the Economy Garage is now. That frees up plenty of land for an international facility with ~6 widebody gates and landside access.

I think that area is exactly where any real transformational Expansion is going to happen. Move the state police and economy lots, and that frees up a good amount of real estate.

The biggest issue are the hangars. None of those airlines are going to want to give them up. And I can’t say I blame them. Working on airplanes in the freezing cold is difficult and miserable, especially at night. I’m not Sure what Massport could do to offset the loss of that space

Honestly, if they just optimized the use of that space past E, they could probably fit in a fair amount of cargo *and* hangars. Some of the stuff over there doesn't need to be anywhere near the tarmac (economy parking, state police), and then there's a sea of parking lots and temporary buildings between the fuel tanks and Gate Gourmet / Sky Chefs.

There are also a couple of areas very close to the tarmac — like the parcel currently used as a limo and bus waiting area — that might be able to accommodate services that only access the tarmac by truck or van.

That area down by LSG/GateGourmet would be tricky as that’s where Massport has their own maintenance facilities and storage. And they have a ton of equipment. Also happens to be where airline storage is at the moment. Definitely not a huge obstacle but still something to be dealt with

BAD BAD night for Logan Airport operations due to FAA delays across the Northeast.

And THIS from the FAA:

Due to VOLUME / VOLUME and DAL GATE ISSUES/SURFACE CONGESTION, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport, Boston, MA (BOS).

Planes sitting on the tarmac for one to two hours due to no gates available.

2 Air Canada diversions tonight from Montreal 787-900 and A333

Delta diversions
6:50 PM - DL1279 - West Palm Beach (PBI) - Delta Air Lines A319 (N336NB) - Diverted to PVD
6:54 PM - DL1328 - Cincinnati (CVG) - Delta Air Lines BCS1 (N122DU) - Diverted to ORF
7:05 PM - DL1097 - Fort Myers (RSW) - Delta Air Lines B738 (N3747D) - Diverted to BWI

[photoid][/photoid]

B6BOSfan wrote:

BAD BAD night for Logan Airport operations due to FAA delays across the Northeast.

And THIS from the FAA:

Due to VOLUME / VOLUME and DAL GATE ISSUES/SURFACE CONGESTION, there is a Traffic Management Program in effect for traffic arriving General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport, Boston, MA (BOS).

Planes sitting on the tarmac for one to two hours due to no gates available.

I’m showing that there is a ground stop into KLGA for DAL flights only due to constraints with an extensive GDP for all:

https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdi ... 06/16/2022


not KBOS which is in a GDP for arrivals from ALL and CZY:

https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_otherdi ... 06/16/2022

Still an absolute mess with no routes out of or into New England or the NYC metros

Seeing on Twitter that some Delta pilots and crews are saying the delays at Logan Airport are due to a security incident that caused evacuations. Massport says that is NOT the case.
https://twitter.com/awesomejoe/status/1 ... 6013448197

Is this a case of Delta trying to keep passengers stuck on planes for several hours without a gate quiet?

chrisnh wrote:

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but why has Massport been so obstinate about adding customs at Terminal A? I can see why it might not make sense when DL had only a few international flights. But they’re reaching double digits now.

I don't think it's Massport. It's DL's terminal after all. They built it and they own it. If they can get the Feds to staff it and spend the money to build an FIS facility I don't think Massport would care. Having said that, I don't think there is any room in terminal A to build such a facility and I doubt very much that DL would want to spend the money required to build one if they could somehow find the space.

I flew out 2 Saturdays ago on Iberia. Terminal E was pretty quiet for our 5:30 departure. Iberia is still bad. MAD is now my least favorite airport to connect. Everywhere throughout Europe there are massive delays due to lack of staff. LIS where I'm currently writing from, had a 4 hour delay the other day to clear immigration and I'm sure you've all read the stories coming out of AMS, LGW, and LHR. No doubt DL is being impacted heavily on both sides of the Atlantic. I feel for them because it's not really their fault if their flights are departing from Europe with massive delays. I'm flying back to Boston tomorrow and I'm not looking forward to what we might encounter on arrival

airbazar wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but why has Massport been so obstinate about adding customs at Terminal A? I can see why it might not make sense when DL had only a few international flights. But they’re reaching double digits now.

I don't think it's Massport. It's DL's terminal after all. They built it and they own it. If they can get the Feds to staff it and spend the money to build an FIS facility I don't think Massport would care. Having said that, I don't think there is any room in terminal A to build such a facility and I doubt very much that DL would want to spend the money required to build one if they could somehow find the space.

I flew out 2 Saturdays ago on Iberia. Terminal E was pretty quiet for our 5:30 departure. Iberia is still bad. MAD is now my least favorite airport to connect. Everywhere throughout Europe there are massive delays due to lack of staff. LIS where I'm currently writing from, had a 4 hour delay the other day to clear immigration and I'm sure you've all read the stories coming out of AMS, LGW, and LHR. No doubt DL is being impacted heavily on both sides of the Atlantic. I feel for them because it's not really their fault if their flights are departing from Europe with massive delays. I'm flying back to Boston tomorrow and I'm not looking forward to what we might encounter on arrival

We connected in MAD in 2019 and it’s a confusing place to connect. Down a big elevator, then up another elevator to get to the same level we were on originally, but on a different side. And my SO lived in Madrid, knows the airport and speaks Spanish fluently. I do love the city though. What was bad about Iberia?

DL is not going to spend the money on its own FIS for 10 flights. THey might be willing to co-invest. Do they still own terminal A?