Welcome to the Boeing 767 Production / Activity Thread 2022. Please continue your discussion and to post your news below.

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Boeing 767 Production/Activity Thread - 2021

B767 firing order update :
Last delivered was L/N 1262 C/N 66812 B767-300F N377UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR305), just before Christmas 2021 at Dec 23th 2021
Very lmited activity, no 767-300F deliveries in 2022 yet.

Known allocated 767 line numbers :

L/N 1262 C/N 66812 B767-300F N377UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR305)
L/N 1263 C/N 67024? B767-300F (N20139) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT732)
L/N 1264 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46076 USAF KC-46A (VH076) Lot 6, #05/12, tail 06076
L/N 1265 C/N 67025? B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT733)
L/N 1266 KC-46A (VH077) ??
L/N 1267 FedEx (VT666) ??
L/N 1268 KC-46A (VH078) ??
L/N 1269 FedEx (VT667) ??
L/N 1270 C/N 67026? B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT734)

The first two CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft are painted white ?? and are not delivered.
L/N 1258, (N2009P) VT 731, see : http://paineairport.com/kpae19830b.htm
L/N 1263, (N20139) VT732, see : http://paineairport.com/kpae19847d.htm

The next two FedEx 767-300F aircraft are already listed in the FAA registry, but I have no exact confirmation of the allocated line numbers , most probably 1267 and 1269.
L/N xxxxxx C/N 66867 B767-300F N266FE FEDEX
L/N xxxxxx C/N 63131 B767-300F N294FE FEDEX

Note : two 767-2C's were delivered in 2022 : L/N1223 at Jan 21th 2022 and L/N1124 at Jan 22th 2022.

747classic wrote:

The first two CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft are painted white ?? and are not delivered.
L/N 1258, (N2009P) VT 731, see : http://paineairport.com/kpae19830b.htm
L/N 1263, (N20139) VT732, see : http://paineairport.com/kpae19847d.htm

Maybe ntu? They both have N-regs, Boeing usually directly assigns the customers regs I think.

ben7x wrote:

peter.evers@wxs.nl

747classic wrote:

The first two CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft are painted white ?? and are not delivered.
L/N 1258, (N2009P) VT 731, see : http://paineairport.com/kpae19830b.htm
L/N 1263, (N20139) VT732, see : http://paineairport.com/kpae19847d.htm

Maybe ntu? They both have N-regs, Boeing usually directly assigns the customers regs I think.

Could be ntu's seen the white livery , but these N-reg's are test registrations (Manufacturer (Temp)) , see : https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... mberResult
Fill in N2009P , without "N"

I'd be surprised if anyone is going to NTU a freighter considering demand, so that they are test registrations ( while the plane does it Bx functional test flights? ) makes more sense to me.

Stitch wrote:

I'd be surprised if anyone is going to NTU a freighter considering demand, so that they are test registrations ( while the plane does it Bx functional test flights? ) makes more sense to me.

no, it can still happen

Stitch wrote:

I'd be surprised if anyone is going to NTU a freighter considering demand, so that they are test registrations ( while the plane does it Bx functional test flights? ) makes more sense to me.

Because these cargo aircraft will have to be delivered to China, it's not clear what exactly will happen, seen the current tense US-China relationship.
And what about the proposed Chinese pfreighter ban ?
It could be everything: delayed delivery, temporally short or long term storage, or even an order cancellation.

But seen the white (protective) livery, it will not be a quick delivery to China !

Two more FedEx B763Fs were delivered recently:

Boeing 767-300F C/N 66867 L/N 1266 N266FE FedEx delivery 25 March 2022 PAE-IND
Boeing 767-300F C/N 63131 L/N 1268 N294FE FedEx delivery 31 March 2022 PAE-IND

767 firing order update :

L/N 1258 C/N 67023 B767-300F (N2009P) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT731)
L/N 1259 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46074 USAF KC-46A (VH074) Lot 6, #03/12, tail 06074
L/N 1260 C/N 66811 B767-300F N376UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR304)
L/N 1261 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46075 USAF KC-46A (VH075) Lot 6, #04/12, tail 06075
L/N 1262 C/N 66812 B767-300F N377UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR305)
L/N 1263 C/N 67024 B767-300F (N20139) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT732)
L/N 1264 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46076 USAF KC-46A (VH076) Lot 6, #05/12, tail 06076
L/N 1265 C/N 67025? B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT733)
L/N 1266 C/N 66867 B767-300F N266FE FEDEX (VT666)
L/N 1267 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46077 USAF KC-46A (VH077) Lot 6, #06/12, tail 06077
L/N 1268 C/N 63131 B767-300F N294FE FEDEX (VT667)
L/N 1269 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46078 USAF KC-46A (VH078) Lot 6, #07/12, tail 06078
L/N 1270 C/N 67026? B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT734)
L/N 1271 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46079 USAF KC-46A (VH079) Lot 6, #08/12, tail 06079

The serial numbers of the CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft #3 and #4 are not confirmed yet.

Peter, have you seen all those KC-46 tail numbers and confirmed them, or are you just guessing?

RobK wrote:

Peter, have you seen all those KC-46 tail numbers and confirmed them, or are you just guessing?

These tail numbers are sequential numbers by fisical year ordered, but may be changed later, see the recent mess up, with allocating aircraft by different FY's.

Re-allocated (out of sequence) KC-46A's :
L/N 1098 C/N 41855 B767-2LKC 19-46007 USAF KC46A (VH007)LRIP 1, #3/7, tail 96007
L/N 1210 C/N 41879 B767-2C 16-46057 USAF KC-46A (VH057) Lot 5, #01/15, N2013S, tail 16057
L/N 1213 C/N 41884 B767-2C 16-46058 USAF KC-46A (VH058) Lot 5, #02/15, N5017Q, tail 16058
L/N 1216 C/N 41885 B767-2C 16-46059 USAF KC-46A (VH059) Lot 5, #03/15, N5020K, tail 16059
L/N 1219 C/N 41883 B767-2C 16-46060 USAF KC-46A (VH060) Lot 5, #04/15, tail 16060
L/N 1243 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 15-46067 USAF KC-46A (VH067) Lot 5, #11/15, tail 56067
L/N 1246 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 15-46068 USAF KC-46A (VH068) Lot 5, #12/15, N1794B, tail 56068
L/N 1248 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 15-46069 USAF KC-46A (VH069) Lot 5, #13/15, tail 56069
L/N 1250 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 15-46070 USAF KC-46A (VH070) Lot 5, #14/15, tail 56070

747classic wrote:

767 firing order update :

L/N 1258 C/N 67023 B767-300F (N2009P) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT731)
L/N 1259 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46074 USAF KC-46A (VH074) Lot 6, #03/12, tail 06074
L/N 1260 C/N 66811 B767-300F N376UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR304)
L/N 1261 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46075 USAF KC-46A (VH075) Lot 6, #04/12, tail 06075
L/N 1262 C/N 66812 B767-300F N377UP UNITED PARCEL SERVICE (VR305)
L/N 1263 C/N 67024 B767-300F (N20139) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT732)
L/N 1264 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46076 USAF KC-46A (VH076) Lot 6, #05/12, tail 06076
L/N 1265 C/N 67025? B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT733)
L/N 1266 C/N 66867 B767-300F N266FE FEDEX (VT666)
L/N 1267 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46077 USAF KC-46A (VH077) Lot 6, #06/12, tail 06077
L/N 1268 C/N 63131 B767-300F N294FE FEDEX (VT667)
L/N 1269 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46078 USAF KC-46A (VH078) Lot 6, #07/12, tail 06078
L/N 1270 C/N 67026? B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES (VT734)
L/N 1271 C/N xxxxxx B767-2C 20-46079 USAF KC-46A (VH079) Lot 6, #08/12, tail 06079

The serial numbers of the CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft #3 and #4 are not confirmed yet.

Thank you, this lines up with the word I've gotten for FedEx, no deliveries for April but then two in May.

747classic wrote:

but may be changed later

OK thank you. That was why I asked. Given the mess with the original 19s seemingly morphing into 21s and 15s to meet contractual obligations, I think it's quite possible there will be more to come.

You also missed # 066 from your list above. Seems to be slipped by unnoticed but this was re-regd from 96066 to 56066.

RobK wrote:

You also missed # 066 from your list above. Seems to be slipped by unnoticed but this was re-regd from 96066 to 56066.

Thx, I will add 56066 to the change list.

According to China Central Longhao Airlines related employees, the 767 ordered by them has been cancelled. The reason is that it has not been approved by CAAC.

ChingwangLee wrote:

According to China Central Longhao Airlines related employees, the 767 ordered by them has been cancelled. The reason is that it has not been approved by CAAC.

If true, Boeing probably won't have any trouble placing those white tails.

Begs the question why that order wasn't approved by the CAAC. Would have thought increased air cargo capacity was desperately needed.

ChingwangLee wrote:

According to China Central Longhao Airlines related employees, the 767 ordered by them has been cancelled. The reason is that it has not been approved by CAAC.

Yep, it's already painted all white

jbs2886 wrote:

If true, Boeing probably won't have any trouble placing those white tails.

One imagines they will go to another Chinese operator since standard practice for Chinese orders in the past is to list them as UFOs and then once CAAC makes the frame allocation, Boeing assigns them to a carrier in their O&D spreadsheet.

It sounds like CAAC may have approved China Central Longhao Airlines getting them, and then subsequently rescinded the allocation, leaving them as white-tails for the time being.

Not sure I believe any of this. It's well known locally that the airline has been having financial difficulties as they have a newly converted 737 that's been held at CAN awaiting payment for 6 months now.

I find it highly unlikely that CAAC did not "approve" the order. Nobody gets to order any Western built planes without CAAC approval.

RobK wrote:

Not sure I believe any of this. It's well known locally that the airline has been having financial difficulties as they have a newly converted 737 that's been held at CAN awaiting payment for 6 months now.

I find it highly unlikely that CAAC did not "approve" the order. Nobody gets to order any Western built planes without CAAC approval.

Don't think most of the posts above have any clue. It's the first factory F delivery to China which will require a new type certification from CAAC. The BCFs and BDSFs that SF and YTO operate have slightly different cockpit config than the factory Fs. With the current US-China political situation (re the re certification and delivery of the MAX), it's not a really surprise if CAAC holds up the certification.

MD80MKE wrote:

RobK wrote:

Not sure I believe any of this. It's well known locally that the airline has been having financial difficulties as they have a newly converted 737 that's been held at CAN awaiting payment for 6 months now.

I find it highly unlikely that CAAC did not "approve" the order. Nobody gets to order any Western built planes without CAAC approval.

Don't think most of the posts above have any clue. It's the first factory F delivery to China which will require a new type certification from CAAC. The BCFs and BDSFs that SF and YTO operate have slightly different cockpit config than the factory Fs. With the current US-China political situation (re the re certification and delivery of the MAX), it's not a really surprise if CAAC holds up the certification.

It’s probably a mix of both (politics and customer’s financial difficulties). The order was placed in May 2020, it’s not like US-China relations were much better then.

China would know that new-builds would require certifying at the point of approving the order, hence it makes no sense for them to be painted white if it's just about the type certification. They'd have painted them in the customer livery and then simply parked them up if there were delays to the certification process.

Imo the only way for these to end up white is if either 1. LHA told Boeing they were cancelling or 2. they didn't make their initial payments which voided the contract and allows Boeing to remarket them as white tails.

RobK wrote:

Not sure I believe any of this. It's well known locally that the airline has been having financial difficulties as they have a newly converted 737 that's been held at CAN awaiting payment for 6 months now.

I find it highly unlikely that CAAC did not "approve" the order. Nobody gets to order any Western built planes without CAAC approval.

I don't think Longhao Airlines has financial problems. Because the major shareholder of Longhao is now Henan Civil Aviation Development &Investment Co.Ltd. Longhao is now a state-owned enterprise and has sufficient sources of funds to support its development. After introducing several 737CLs a few years ago, Longhao suddenly began to expand on a large scale in 2020, purchasing multiple 738s, two exCSN 744s, and ordering the new Boeing 763. Even relevant employees said that they had plans to order the 777F. This speed of expansion seems unreasonable for a young company. But at present, CAAC seems to limit the rapid expansion of Longhao, which I think is similar to the fleet limit previously set by FAA on WGN to prevent its disorderly expansion from leading to operational problems.

ChingwangLee wrote:

RobK wrote:

Not sure I believe any of this. It's well known locally that the airline has been having financial difficulties as they have a newly converted 737 that's been held at CAN awaiting payment for 6 months now.

I find it highly unlikely that CAAC did not "approve" the order. Nobody gets to order any Western built planes without CAAC approval.

I don't think Longhao Airlines has financial problems. Because the major shareholder of Longhao is now Henan Civil Aviation Development &Investment Co.Ltd. Longhao is now a state-owned enterprise and has sufficient sources of funds to support its development. After introducing several 737CLs a few years ago, Longhao suddenly began to expand on a large scale in 2020, purchasing multiple 738s, two exCSN 744s, and ordering the new Boeing 763. Even relevant employees said that they had plans to order the 777F. This speed of expansion seems unreasonable for a young company. But at present, CAAC seems to limit the rapid expansion of Longhao, which I think is similar to the fleet limit previously set by FAA on WGN to prevent its disorderly expansion from leading to operational problems.

Seems the reported info about the 737 is incorrect. It left Gameco on Nov 1 and is parked at Zhengzhou now, but still hasn't entered service.

Rob,
Any KC-46A serial numbers known already after L/N 1234 C/N 34080 B767-2C 19-46064 USAF KC-46A (VH064) Lot 5, #08/15, N20129, tail 96064 ?

747classic wrote:

Rob,
Any KC-46A serial numbers known already after L/N 1234 C/N 34080 B767-2C 19-46064 USAF KC-46A (VH064) Lot 5, #08/15, N20129, tail 96064 ?

I am not RobK but L/N 1241 is C/N 34078, L/N 1246 is C/N 34075 , the rest I also don't know.

747classic wrote:

Rob,
Any KC-46A serial numbers known already after L/N 1234 C/N 34080 B767-2C 19-46064 USAF KC-46A (VH064) Lot 5, #08/15, N20129, tail 96064 ?

Yessir, they are known already on other sites :

767 1236 VH065 34077 2C 19-46065 United States Air Force
767 1238 VH402 66622 2C 14-3612 Japan Air Self-Defense Force
767 1241 VH066 34078 2C 19-46066 United States Air Force
767 1243 VH067 34079 2C 19-46067 United States Air Force
767 1246 VH068 34075 2C 19-46068 United States Air Force
767 1248 VH069 41986 2C 19-46069 United States Air Force

(Note I haven't amended the FYs to reflect the reshuffles yet).

Any construction number for 19-46065? Isn't it odd for a delivered airframe still to be an unknown or is this a DoD thing?

skipness1E wrote:

Any construction number for 19-46065? Isn't it odd for a delivered airframe still to be an unknown or is this a DoD thing?

Isn't that already listed in reply #29 above...C/N 34077?
767 1236 VH065 34077 2C 19-46065 United States Air Force

13 to be built FedEx 767-300F aircraft have been added to the FAA registry with owner "The Boeing Company " :

Reg.------- C/N
N264FE 66869
N265FE 66868
N281FE 66254
N282FE 63143
N283FE 63142
N284FE 63141
N285FE 63140
N286FE 63139
N287FE 63138
N288FE 63137
N289FE 63136
N290FE 63135
N291FE 63134

See : https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... ntrytxt=US

"Air Canada has purchased two new Boeing 767-300F freighters that are due to be delivered this year.

The two factory-built freighters will be in addition to the eight Boeing 767-300s that are being converted for Air Canada Cargo operations."

Im guessing these are the china longhao NTU's

source:
https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... ues-climb/

ALL 5 already built CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft seem to be NTU.

The first two (L/N 1258 and 1263) are now to be delivered to Air Canada.


The remaining three (also painted full white) are now registered in the FAA registry, with owner "Boeing Company" :

L/N 1265 C/N 67025 B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT733), Boeing owned : N493MM

L/N 1270 C/N 67026 B767-300F (N2013M) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT734), Boeing owned N495MM

L/N 1272 C/N 67027 B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT735), Boeing owned N496MM

See the last three aircraft in this listing : https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... ntrytxt=US


The next 767-300F for FedEx, N281FE, made her first (B1)flight at May 19th 2022 with callsign BOE668, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N28 ... /KPAE/KPAE

Aircraft data : L/N 1274 C/N 66254 B767-300F N281FE FEDEX (VT668)

N281FE, KPAE, May 19th 2022



Origibal uploaded by Baqir at twitter, see : https://mobile.twitter.com/Baqir_KPAE/s ... 9770393600

747classic wrote:

ALL 5 already built CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft seem to be NTU.

The first two (L/N 1258 and 1263) are now to be delivered to Air Canada.


The remaining three (also painted full white) are now registered in the FAA registry, with owner "Boeing Company" :

L/N 1265 C/N 67025 B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT733), Boeing owned : N493MM

L/N 1270 C/N 67026 B767-300F (N2013M) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT734), Boeing owned N495MM

L/N 1272 C/N 67027 B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT735), Boeing owned N496MM

See the last three aircraft in this listing : https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... ntrytxt=US

The next 767-300F for FedEx, N281FE, made her first (B1)flight at May 19th 2022 with callsign BOE668, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N28 ... /KPAE/KPAE

Aircraft data : L/N 1274 C/N 66254 B767-300F N281FE FEDEX (VT668)

According Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of May 23th 2022 L/N 1270, N495MM and L/N 1272, M496MM will be delivered in July to Amazon Air.
See : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/05/paine- ... ay-23.html

747classic wrote:

747classic wrote:

ALL 5 already built CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES 767-300F aircraft seem to be NTU.

The first two (L/N 1258 and 1263) are now to be delivered to Air Canada.


The remaining three (also painted full white) are now registered in the FAA registry, with owner "Boeing Company" :

L/N 1265 C/N 67025 B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT733), Boeing owned : N493MM

L/N 1270 C/N 67026 B767-300F (N2013M) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT734), Boeing owned N495MM

L/N 1272 C/N 67027 B767-300F CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu (VT735), Boeing owned N496MM

See the last three aircraft in this listing : https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquir ... ntrytxt=US

The next 767-300F for FedEx, N281FE, made her first (B1)flight at May 19th 2022 with callsign BOE668, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N28 ... /KPAE/KPAE

Aircraft data : L/N 1274 C/N 66254 B767-300F N281FE FEDEX (VT668)

According Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of May 23th 2022 L/N 1270, N495MM and L/N 1272, M496MM will be delivered in July to Amazon Air.
See : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/05/paine- ... ay-23.html

Wow didn’t see that coming. Will be quite the age gap between the sizeable converted fleet and these two. Just 1 remaining for placement?

The first factory fresh Air Canada 767-300F with new registration applied : C-GXHI

C-GXHI, KPAE, Customer flight, June 16th 2022


Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/15 ... 6480696320

Aircraft data : L/N 1258 C/N 67023 B767-300F C-GXHI (N2009P) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu, Air Canada (VT731)

747classic wrote:

The first factory fresh Air Canada 767-300F with new registration applied : C-GXHI

C-GXHI, KPAE, Customer flight, June 16th 2022


Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/15 ... 6480696320

Aircraft data : L/N 1258 C/N 67023 B767-300F C-GXHI (N2009P) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu, Air Canada (VT731)

Nice to see a brand new 767 still rolling out the factory now. I hope Boeing and the FAA can work their way around the new emission rules the FAA will introduce in 2027. The 767 is rumored to not comply with this new emission rule once it starts.

A388

A388 wrote:

747classic wrote:

The first factory fresh Air Canada 767-300F with new registration applied : C-GXHI

C-GXHI, KPAE, Customer flight, June 16th 2022


Original uploaded by Matt Cawby at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/15 ... 6480696320

Aircraft data : L/N 1258 C/N 67023 B767-300F C-GXHI (N2009P) CHINA CENTRAL LONGHAO AIRLINES ntu, Air Canada (VT731)

Nice to see a brand new 767 still rolling out the factory now. I hope Boeing and the FAA can work their way around the new emission rules the FAA will introduce in 2027. The 767 is rumored to not comply with this new emission rule once it starts.

A388

Not rumored, it won't comply with the ICAO rules. FAA will have very little say in it. Get ready for 787F.

A388 wrote:

I hope Boeing and the FAA can work their way around the new emission rules the FAA will introduce in 2027. The 767 is rumored to not comply with this new emission rule once it starts.

That is correct that the CF6 engine is not compliant with the upcoming ICAO rules. The FAA does not have any authority over granting exceptions as they are just enforcing EPA regulations (with the EPA adopting the ICAO standards and timeline to set those regulations). And it would not worth petitioning the EPA for an exception as that would only allow Boeing to sell new 767s to US operators for operation only within the continental US and I don't see FedEx or UPS wanting to have to operate a special "US-only" sub fleet. Both have already filed their last tranche of orders and have a bit under 40 (FedEX) and 20 (UPS) frames left. If they need more after that, I expect them to source them from the passenger-to-freighter conversion market (UPS is already starting to do this).

Stitch wrote:

A388 wrote:

I hope Boeing and the FAA can work their way around the new emission rules the FAA will introduce in 2027. The 767 is rumored to not comply with this new emission rule once it starts.

That is correct that the CF6 engine is not compliant with the upcoming ICAO rules. The FAA does not have any authority over granting exceptions as they are just enforcing EPA regulations (with the EPA adopting the ICAO standards and timeline to set those regulations). And it would not worth petitioning the EPA for an exception as that would only allow Boeing to sell new 767s to US operators for operation only within the continental US and I don't see FedEx or UPS wanting to have to operate a special "US-only" sub fleet. Both have already filed their last tranche of orders and have a bit under 40 (FedEX) and 20 (UPS) frames left. If they need more after that, I expect them to source them from the passenger-to-freighter conversion market (UPS is already starting to do this).

Thanks Stich. Does this new rule mean that none of the 767's can be flown anywhere starting 2027 because of this new emission rule or do ICAO/FAA only look at when the airplane is produced/delivered?

A388

@A388 - the rule will stop them producing new aircraft ( theoretically they could continue if they changed to a compliant engine, but that would be a huge expense ).

It does not stop existing aircraft from continuing to fly. FedEx and UPS would certainly not be taking new aircraft if they came with a 2027 deadline to exit service.

A388 wrote:

Thanks Stich. Does this new rule mean that none of the 767's can be flown anywhere starting 2027 because of this new emission rule or do ICAO/FAA only look at when the airplane is produced/delivered?

Boeing will not be able to deliver new commercial 767 airframes after the ICAO regulations go into effect. Military aircraft are exempt so Boeing can continue to build 767-2C airframes that will be converted to military freighters and tankers (but they could not build a 767-2C as a freighter for a non-military customer).

As noted, existing airframes will be able to continue to be operated. The rules also allow existing passenger frames to be converted to freighters, so operators like FedEx and UPS could continue to add to their 767 freighter fleets via that rate.

Stitch wrote:

Boeing will not be able to deliver new commercial 767 airframes after the ICAO regulations go into effect. Military aircraft are exempt so Boeing can continue to build 767-2C airframes that will be converted to military freighters and tankers (but they could not build a 767-2C as a freighter for a non-military customer).

As noted, existing airframes will be able to continue to be operated. The rules also allow existing passenger frames to be converted to freighters, so operators like FedEx and UPS could continue to add to their 767 freighter fleets via that rate.

Okay thanks for your explanation Stitch. So the next question is whether Boeing can develop and have a 787 full freighter variant commercially operational before 2027(?)

A388

N289FE, the next 767-300F for FedEx made her first (B1) flight at June 24th 2022 with callsign BOE669, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N28 ... /KPAE/KPAE

Aircraft data : L/N 1276 C/N 63136 B767-300F N289FE FEDEX (VT669)

For a picture of N289FE, after the B1 flight, see Matt Cawby's Paine Field blog of June 24/25 : http://kpae.blogspot.com/2022/06/paine- ... -2425.html

Stitch wrote:

A388 wrote:

I hope Boeing and the FAA can work their way around the new emission rules the FAA will introduce in 2027. The 767 is rumored to not comply with this new emission rule once it starts.

That is correct that the CF6 engine is not compliant with the upcoming ICAO rules. The FAA does not have any authority over granting exceptions as they are just enforcing EPA regulations (with the EPA adopting the ICAO standards and timeline to set those regulations). And it would not worth petitioning the EPA for an exception as that would only allow Boeing to sell new 767s to US operators for operation only within the continental US and I don't see FedEx or UPS wanting to have to operate a special "US-only" sub fleet. Both have already filed their last tranche of orders and have a bit under 40 (FedEX) and 20 (UPS) frames left. If they need more after that, I expect them to source them from the passenger-to-freighter conversion market (UPS is already starting to do this).

I can see UPS buying new 767s for a US-only subfleet. They already do this with the CGN-only converted freighters which have the smaller bulk doors. With the impending MD11 retirement looming, it’s actually not a bad course of action if the appeal by Boeing is denied. UPS could always augment future new builds with more converted freighters which would have worldwide access.

UPS757Pilot wrote:

Stitch wrote:

A388 wrote:

I hope Boeing and the FAA can work their way around the new emission rules the FAA will introduce in 2027. The 767 is rumored to not comply with this new emission rule once it starts.

That is correct that the CF6 engine is not compliant with the upcoming ICAO rules. The FAA does not have any authority over granting exceptions as they are just enforcing EPA regulations (with the EPA adopting the ICAO standards and timeline to set those regulations). And it would not worth petitioning the EPA for an exception as that would only allow Boeing to sell new 767s to US operators for operation only within the continental US and I don't see FedEx or UPS wanting to have to operate a special "US-only" sub fleet. Both have already filed their last tranche of orders and have a bit under 40 (FedEX) and 20 (UPS) frames left. If they need more after that, I expect them to source them from the passenger-to-freighter conversion market (UPS is already starting to do this).

I can see UPS buying new 767s for a US-only subfleet. They already do this with the CGN-only converted freighters which have the smaller bulk doors. With the impending MD11 retirement looming, it’s actually not a bad course of action if the appeal by Boeing is denied. UPS could always augment future new builds with more converted freighters which would have worldwide access.

That’d be a tough sell to their stockholders. New aircraft to be hobbled to ply the domestic skies for decades and no hope to use anywhere else on their global network seems like a poor use of capital. The MD-11s are nowhere near their LOV and can have their lives extended. UPS has converted how many freighters besides those 3 ex-JAL ones? We are not counting the leased in CAM frames.

The real kicker will be whether GE wants to continue a trickle of an ancient engine production wise, or if they would want to switch that plant over to higher rate modern engines.

This is not even taking into account my 1 in 30 odds that I give the FAA in approving any sort of waiver.

Rumor has it that our MD11s will be retired within the next 4-5 years so we shall see.

UPS757Pilot wrote:

Rumor has it that our MD11s will be retired within the next 4-5 years so we shall see.

respecting the quality of your posts and potential for the rumor to be true., this doesn't make sense to me. Brown does not yet have the orders in place, nor could the airframers fulfill the replacements in that time frame. Again, tip-hat as those mechanics generally figure out the prevailing winds quickly.
data points:
- Their does appear to be a number of ERSF orders globally where the carriers have yet to be publicly announced...
- The Boeings 767f extension argument appears to be based the idea that the 763f's carbon footprint is lower than replacement options (assuming the a330 and b787)
- 5X has 8 conversions, 72 new builds and 19 orders(likely to be filled by peak 2025)
- Fedex topped_up/firmed a 767 order a few weeks after the shareholders meeting last year. An outsider looking in would project that the next top_up order would be announced by the same time next year.

Its a challenge to see the b763f replacing the MD11s at UPS., or the 'sweat the assets' ethos become malleable for a symbiotic subfleet

sincere regards <tip hat>