What bird is over at MLB? All white 767 freighter minus winglets and ge engines.

ATI's N941AZ apparently got a little ramp rash that went unnoticed before a transcon. As of 3/2021 she had 103,000 hours and 22.5k cycles on her.

https://avherald.com/h?article=4fcc5024&opt=0

Read the comments section for a good chuckle.

Spacepope wrote:

ATI's N941AZ apparently got a little ramp rash that went unnoticed before a transcon. As of 3/2021 she had 103,000 hours and 22.5k cycles on her.

https://avherald.com/h?article=4fcc5024&opt=0

Read the comments section for a good chuckle.

Chuckle, indeed.

Lots of disgruntled former workers I'm guessing.

Could it possibly be N491AZ? cheers!

stretch8 wrote:

Could it possibly be N491AZ? cheers!

I possibly do have fat finger syndrome. 491 sounds more correct though so let’s run with that

Amazon workers walk off job at major West Coast air hub

Dozens of Amazon employees at the company’s air hub in San Bernardino, Calif., on Monday abandoned their workstations mid-shift over low wages and concerns regarding heat safety.

The article mentions that about 10% of the facility’s employees walked out.

It also mentions that the employees are severely rent burdened, given the median price of housing they have to put ~75% of their wages toward housing.

Oddly, Amazon also stated they respected their employee’s right to walk out… though they’d probably also be willing to use their right to terminate their employment.

I’m curious if there were any notable effects visible on turn times or other metrics we can see?

USAirKid wrote:

Amazon workers walk off job at major West Coast air hub

Dozens of Amazon employees at the company’s air hub in San Bernardino, Calif., on Monday abandoned their workstations mid-shift over low wages and concerns regarding heat safety.

The article mentions that about 10% of the facility’s employees walked out.

It also mentions that the employees are severely rent burdened, given the median price of housing they have to put ~75% of their wages toward housing.

Oddly, Amazon also stated they respected their employee’s right to walk out… though they’d probably also be willing to use their right to terminate their employment.

I’m curious if there were any notable effects visible on turn times or other metrics we can see?

I have yet to come across an air-conditioned warehouse, and I've worked in a lot of warehouses including in high-heat and high-humidity areas. Best you'll get is a jug of Gatorade and maybe a wet bandanna...in a few cases maybe those cooling bandannas. Interesting to see what they expected. The wages are a whole other thing.

HPRamper wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

Amazon workers walk off job at major West Coast air hub

Dozens of Amazon employees at the company’s air hub in San Bernardino, Calif., on Monday abandoned their workstations mid-shift over low wages and concerns regarding heat safety.

The article mentions that about 10% of the facility’s employees walked out.

It also mentions that the employees are severely rent burdened, given the median price of housing they have to put ~75% of their wages toward housing.

Oddly, Amazon also stated they respected their employee’s right to walk out… though they’d probably also be willing to use their right to terminate their employment.

I’m curious if there were any notable effects visible on turn times or other metrics we can see?

I have yet to come across an air-conditioned warehouse, and I've worked in a lot of warehouses including in high-heat and high-humidity areas. Best you'll get is a jug of Gatorade and maybe a wet bandanna...in a few cases maybe those cooling bandannas. Interesting to see what they expected. The wages are a whole other thing.

the warehouse is a/c, its the ramp it seems the employee is stating concerns about.

CALMSP wrote:

HPRamper wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

Amazon workers walk off job at major West Coast air hub



The article mentions that about 10% of the facility’s employees walked out.

It also mentions that the employees are severely rent burdened, given the median price of housing they have to put ~75% of their wages toward housing.

Oddly, Amazon also stated they respected their employee’s right to walk out… though they’d probably also be willing to use their right to terminate their employment.

I’m curious if there were any notable effects visible on turn times or other metrics we can see?

I have yet to come across an air-conditioned warehouse, and I've worked in a lot of warehouses including in high-heat and high-humidity areas. Best you'll get is a jug of Gatorade and maybe a wet bandanna...in a few cases maybe those cooling bandannas. Interesting to see what they expected. The wages are a whole other thing.

the warehouse is a/c, its the ramp it seems the employee is stating concerns about.

Bizarre. The ramp even in the summertime is manageable. They find a way to make it work in PHX. I have to think the rent thing is a way bigger issue.

About 0815L EST, N617AZ AZ B763 BDSF moved from AZ Ramp to Delta Hgr located near rwy 18L at CVG. cheers!

An article from Zerohedge.com on Amazon

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/amazo ... down-fears

JayinKitsap wrote:

An article from Zerohedge.com on Amazon

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/amazo ... down-fears

There's a lot of problems with this article - first its clearly driving a narrative as evident by its last paragraphs. Nevertheless, it assumes that flights are proxy for cargo actually carried - it may be true, but its an assumption. It also assumes that flights is a proxy for all Amazon sales. With the massive FC growth is entirely reasonable that the air growth wasn't needed to get 1-2 day delivery. It also doesn't go into whether Amazon changed when shorter delivery times are offered (e.g., only when its in a nearby FC versus needing to haul it across country).

jbs2886 wrote:

JayinKitsap wrote:

An article from Zerohedge.com on Amazon

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/amazo ... down-fears

There's a lot of problems with this article - first its clearly driving a narrative as evident by its last paragraphs. Nevertheless, it assumes that flights are proxy for cargo actually carried - it may be true, but its an assumption. It also assumes that flights is a proxy for all Amazon sales. With the massive FC growth is entirely reasonable that the air growth wasn't needed to get 1-2 day delivery. It also doesn't go into whether Amazon changed when shorter delivery times are offered (e.g., only when its in a nearby FC versus needing to haul it across country).

This is why reasonable people don't usually put any stock in sources like Zerohedge.

Ground shipping from my experience at work is not as bad as during the lockdown days, but it hasn't really opened up wide either. While the prime trucks are much more plentiful, I still get silly things delivered by air usually close to overnight like dishwasher detergent pods that started their day in Tulsa, and which still plied that air network.

Now.... if air freight falls too much we may see the Prime aircraft running emptier, since the third party cargo they also carry may dry up.

Spacepope wrote:

Ground shipping from my experience at work is not as bad as during the lockdown days, but it hasn't really opened up wide either. While the prime trucks are much more plentiful, I still get silly things delivered by air usually close to overnight like dishwasher detergent pods that started their day in Tulsa, and which still plied that air network.

Now.... if air freight falls too much we may see the Prime aircraft running emptier, since the third party cargo they also carry may dry up.

Yeah I just had a tube of specialized glue get flown to Seattle from Baltimore. Though USPS biffed the delivery so it was a day later than I wanted it.

I was under the impression that the Prime aircraft pretty much only shipped finished Amazon packages. Where'd you see that they were carrying third party cargo.

jbs2886 wrote:

JayinKitsap wrote:

An article from Zerohedge.com on Amazon

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/amazo ... down-fears

There's a lot of problems with this article - first its clearly driving a narrative as evident by its last paragraphs. Nevertheless, it assumes that flights are proxy for cargo actually carried - it may be true, but its an assumption. It also assumes that flights is a proxy for all Amazon sales. With the massive FC growth is entirely reasonable that the air growth wasn't needed to get 1-2 day delivery. It also doesn't go into whether Amazon changed when shorter delivery times are offered (e.g., only when its in a nearby FC versus needing to haul it across country).

All of this, plus it ignores that its pretty likely Amazon has grown the air network very quickly and a bit faster than they can currently fill, anticipating the growth.

USAirKid wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

Ground shipping from my experience at work is not as bad as during the lockdown days, but it hasn't really opened up wide either. While the prime trucks are much more plentiful, I still get silly things delivered by air usually close to overnight like dishwasher detergent pods that started their day in Tulsa, and which still plied that air network.

Now.... if air freight falls too much we may see the Prime aircraft running emptier, since the third party cargo they also carry may dry up.

Yeah I just had a tube of specialized glue get flown to Seattle from Baltimore. Though USPS biffed the delivery so it was a day later than I wanted it.

I was under the impression that the Prime aircraft pretty much only shipped finished Amazon packages. Where'd you see that they were carrying third party cargo.

Here's an article on how their air network is flying stuff for other customers https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/04/how-ama ... d-ups.html

Spacepope wrote:

Here's an article on how their air network is flying stuff for other customers https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/04/how-ama ... d-ups.html

Interesting. I also found this quote from the linked article, https://www.theinformation.com/articles ... rce=ti_app , to be more insightful:

One person who until recently worked at Amazon’s air cargo hub in Baltimore told The Information that they regularly loaded and unloaded USPS cargo from Amazon planes. And in a piece of information buried in a 2019 filing with securities regulators, Sun Country Airlines—one of the air cargo companies Amazon works with—says it is obligated to carry cargo from the postal service on behalf of the internet retailer.

Nothing in that article says that they are currently doing logistics as a service for non-sellers on Amazon in the US. They obviously provide a lot of fulfillment of third parties transmitting stuff from their warehouses, which is really indistinguishable from shipping their own stuff. Are they carrying some freight for USPS? Maybe. Or maybe people are seeing stuff that is coming from Amazon but going to USPS for final mile. In any event, carrying some USPS cans (if that's what they're doing) from airport to airport seems like a smart thing to do to fill extra space where available. This doesn't make Amazon "compete with FedEx and UPS", which is the tired old inaccurate narrative that the media has been spinning for over 5 years now. It's wrong. It's crap. And the moment I see that in an article, I assume the rest of it is also BS. The nitwits from DePaul still appear not to understand what Amazon is doing. They're reporting inaccurately every year on a project they apparently don't understand. It's an embarrassment, in my view. And it shows the real value of PhD programs at a lot of lesser universities -- academics vs real world.

Amazon did some almost exponential growth because of Covid. They and especially their grunt workers deserve a lot of credit. It should not be a surprise that there was some excess growth as things return to their new normal. Even that article seemed to say the Amazon's growth was slowing down, not that it had shrunk. I think there was an Amazon quote sometime ago that said every package delivered by air represented a failure. Obviously an exaggeration but still making the point that the system should be overnight by trucks and vans for about everything.

This came out over Twitter today:

Hawaiian to operate 10 A330P2Fs for Amazon, under Hawaiian's certificate and mx.

Guess we know where some of those CAM A330 conversions are ending up. https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... R207wn477g

Spacepope wrote:

This came out over Twitter today:

Hawaiian to operate 10 A330P2Fs for Amazon, under Hawaiian's certificate and mx.

Guess we know where some of those CAM A330 conversions are ending up. https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... R207wn477g

They're being leased from Altavair, not CAM though.

jbs2886 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

This came out over Twitter today:

Hawaiian to operate 10 A330P2Fs for Amazon, under Hawaiian's certificate and mx.

Guess we know where some of those CAM A330 conversions are ending up. https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... R207wn477g

They're being leased from Altavair, not CAM though.

Ah, so they are.

What's this going to do to logistics though, since each Amazon Air type now will have its own different fuselage cross section?

Spacepope wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

This came out over Twitter today:

Hawaiian to operate 10 A330P2Fs for Amazon, under Hawaiian's certificate and mx.

Guess we know where some of those CAM A330 conversions are ending up. https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... R207wn477g

They're being leased from Altavair, not CAM though.

Ah, so they are.

What's this going to do to logistics though, since each Amazon Air type now will have its own different fuselage cross section?

Complicate them a bit, but I’m sure the IT side of things will manage most of it.

I’m not really sure Amazon is focused on moving full pallets between planes. Even then, the 330 can fit the 767 cans, there is just some waste.

USAirKid wrote:

I’m not really sure Amazon is focused on moving full pallets between planes.

That was 100 percent of the operation for a long time.

What this means is probably that these a/c will be used mostly back and forth to a sort hub.

In https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a ... AA13eRkV|4

I found this interesting nugget about Hawaiian flying for Amazon.

The carrier beat out five other bidders, though the amount of the contract was not disclosed, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Now I’m curious who the other bidders were? I’m guessing Atlas and ATSG (either ATI or ABX.. or both.) but who would the other two or three be? I’m not sure if I could see DL bidding… or maybe Sun Country?

wjcandee wrote:

USAirKid wrote:

I’m not really sure Amazon is focused on moving full pallets between planes.

That was 100 percent of the operation for a long time.

What this means is probably that these a/c will be used mostly back and forth to a sort hub.

I almost expect them to bifurcate things, either making the 767s the planes that go through sort hubs, and the A330s the ones that go point to point, or vice versa.

I’m curious if there are any insights here given how the 737s are used in the US?

USAirKid wrote:

In https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a ... AA13eRkV|4

I found this interesting nugget about Hawaiian flying for Amazon.

The carrier beat out five other bidders, though the amount of the contract was not disclosed, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Now I’m curious who the other bidders were? I’m guessing Atlas and ATSG (either ATI or ABX.. or both.) but who would the other two or three be? I’m not sure if I could see DL bidding… or maybe Sun Country?

likely Amerijet was one.after that you have very few us options. Kalitta? Mesa? IFL?

Does anyone have an up to date list of all aircraft owned by/controlled by/ under contract to Amazon by type and base?

jbs2886 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

This came out over Twitter today:

Hawaiian to operate 10 A330P2Fs for Amazon, under Hawaiian's certificate and mx.

Guess we know where some of those CAM A330 conversions are ending up. https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... R207wn477g

They're being leased from Altavair, not CAM though.

I don’t see any A333s in Altavair’s fleet. Are they getting them from elsewhere? The ex AA birds perhaps?

USAirKid wrote:

In https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/a ... AA13eRkV|4

I found this interesting nugget about Hawaiian flying for Amazon.

The carrier beat out five other bidders, though the amount of the contract was not disclosed, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Now I’m curious who the other bidders were? I’m guessing Atlas and ATSG (either ATI or ABX.. or both.) but who would the other two or three be? I’m not sure if I could see DL bidding… or maybe Sun Country?

SY added the A330 rates to their recent pilot contract, so they likely bid for this flying.

Staralexi wrote:

Does anyone have an up to date list of all aircraft owned by/controlled by/ under contract to Amazon by type and base?

Yes. But it's unwieldy.

Not by base. That you're even asking about bases indicates that you don't really understand how the network works.

Potential bidders included Amerijet, Air South, eastern, atsg, Atlas, Sun Country, maybe Kailtta, Mesa, National (which flies the A330) even Western Global. So there were a lot of potential bidders. Some more likely to be taken seriously then others.

I doubt any airline that already doesn’t fly the 330 would bid on it. The the training costs, maintenance, spares etc would be a tremendous outlay of expenses. Plus the 330 isn’t on their AOC nor any pilots or maintenance personnel qualified to work them without training etc.

IAmGaroott wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

Spacepope wrote:

This came out over Twitter today:

Hawaiian to operate 10 A330P2Fs for Amazon, under Hawaiian's certificate and mx.

Guess we know where some of those CAM A330 conversions are ending up. https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... R207wn477g

They're being leased from Altavair, not CAM though.

I don’t see any A333s in Altavair’s fleet. Are they getting them from elsewhere? The ex AA birds perhaps?

According to Cargo Facts, 6 are ex-Etihad for sure, the rest 4 are behind the paywall, but my guesses are the 4 “brand new” ones that HX canceled. Altavair purchased them from Airbus and will send them directly to freighter conversion.

Something interesting I noticed while driving home from work today. I saw my first amazon air trailer. It was a UPS style with the side roll up doors.

I know sort capacity at gateways has been a big bottleneck for Amazon Air, but I was surprised to see this. Guessing this means CVG has the ability to make building level containers ala UPS/FX. Huge move forward for their network. Now I’m wondering how they’re unloading them at the DSes.

Articuno wrote:

IAmGaroott wrote:

jbs2886 wrote:

They're being leased from Altavair, not CAM though.

I don’t see any A333s in Altavair’s fleet. Are they getting them from elsewhere? The ex AA birds perhaps?

According to Cargo Facts, 6 are ex-Etihad for sure, the rest 4 are behind the paywall, but my guesses are the 4 “brand new” ones that HX canceled. Altavair purchased them from Airbus and will send them directly to freighter conversion.

Yes on the Chinese airplanes.

jetblueguy22 wrote:

Something interesting I noticed while driving home from work today. I saw my first amazon air trailer. It was a UPS style with the side roll up doors.

I know sort capacity at gateways has been a big bottleneck for Amazon Air, but I was surprised to see this. Guessing this means CVG has the ability to make building level containers ala UPS/FX. Huge move forward for their network. Now I’m wondering how they’re unloading them at the DSes.

They’ve been around for a while and at a number of gateways.

N613AZ AZ B763 BDSF delivered MEX-CVG-ILN today. cheers!

Looks like Boise has joined the amazon air network. RIV-BOI-AFW on a 737 flown by atlas air is the first routing

Rumors of Amazon starting MHT very soon too. I believe MHT just finished building a large new cargo facility for an unnamed airline, just in time for the holiday surge.

LotsaRunway wrote:

Rumors of Amazon starting MHT very soon too. I believe MHT just finished building a large new cargo facility for an unnamed airline, just in time for the holiday surge.

not a rumor, been known for months that MHT is joining. a 763 rotation through CVG.

Amazon partnering with Azul Brazil to transport packages from its fulfillment center in Cajamr in Sao Paulo state to various domestic markets.

https://aircargoworld.com/news/carriers ... zul-cargo/

UPlog wrote:

Amazon partnering with Azul Brazil to transport packages from its fulfillment center in Cajamr in Sao Paulo state to various domestic markets.

https://aircargoworld.com/news/carriers ... zul-cargo/

This looks a bit different than Amazon’s other efforts. Instead of Amazon scheduling and owning the planes, they’re just buying freight capacity on Azul’s cargo (and passenger?) planes?

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 80733.html

Looks like seasonal; SBD-TPA added:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ATN3555

BTVB6Flyer wrote:

Looks like seasonal; SBD-TPA added:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ATN3555

SBD has grown to an average of ten daily flights on amazon and it’s partners.

AFW has grown to an average of twenty one daily flights on amazon and its partners. Looks like AFW is the number two largest station in the air network based on daily flights behind the main air hub in CVG.

So SILVER has been flying for Amazon for about a year, and has 5 ATR72s actively in service, all from AFW.

From AFW, the stations are BFM (Mobile), DSM (Des Moines), OMA (Omaha), ICT (Wichita).

All flights are out-and-backs. Basically one round-trip per aircraft per day at this point. Flight times, given these routes, range from an hour-ish to two-hours-ish each way.

Previously, Silver flew AFW-ABQ, but that stopped on 10/31/22.

Wondering what the word is on how the service is doing, and any plans to expand beyond 5 planes and 4 stations from one hub.

I'll probably jinx it, but little old ILN is still hanging in there despite the giant Amazon station down the road at CVG. Still 12-ish flights each way per day. Given the sophistication of the Amazon network now, only a couple are out-and-backs, while the rest come in from one place, go out to another. So cool how the ballet works at this point. Currently, two flights on ABX (762), one on SCX (738), 9 on ATI, one 762 and 8 763s.

Interesting survey offered by Atlas Teamsters to their pilot group asking the question:

“For 737 and 767 pilots-
If your fleet were to be eliminated, would you:
. Bid 747
• Bid 777
• Apply to another airline”

MajMattMason wrote:

Interesting survey offered by Atlas Teamsters to their pilot group asking the question:

“For 737 and 767 pilots-
If your fleet were to be eliminated, would you:
. Bid 747
• Bid 777
• Apply to another airline”

Interesting. The 737s are all Amazon work. (There appears to be one that’s leased out.)

The 767s on the other hand do a lot of work, including non-Amazon and passenger flights.

So this is more than just breaking up with Amazon, if that’s what is being considered.