Airbus A321XLR Development / Testing / Production Thread - 2022

SQ22 · Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:15 pm

Welcome to the Airbus A321XLR Development / Testing / Production Thread 2022. Please continue your discussion and to post your news below.

Link to previous thread:

Airbus A321XLR Development Production Testing Thread - 2021

Thunderboltdrgn · Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:11 pm

Any news on the Airbus A321XLR prototype? Any estimates for start of ground tests and subsequent first flight (early summer for FF?)

a380900 · Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:21 am

I've read first flight was scheduled on May 24th. Here it is:
https://aeroin.net/voo-inaugural-do-air ... acontecer/
Not sure what it's worth...

Thunderboltdrgn · Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:12 pm

First frame was spotted outside today with engines mounted.

https://twitter.com/Tobias_Gudat/status ... 6134771714

Kikko19 · Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:47 pm

Will be the testing long? Maybe for the load and ACT? the frame is not too innovative compared to the NEO...

StTim · Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:50 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
Will be the testing long? Maybe for the load and ACT? the frame is not too innovative compared to the NEO...

Rumours on various 737-10 and 777X threads that the XLR is also going to be impacted by the fallout on the MAX. Personally this makes no sense to me and whether it would be just for FAA approval I do not know.

JetBuddy · Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:00 pm

StTim wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Will be the testing long? Maybe for the load and ACT? the frame is not too innovative compared to the NEO...

Rumours on various 737-10 and 777X threads that the XLR is also going to be impacted by the fallout on the MAX. Personally this makes no sense to me and whether it would be just for FAA approval I do not know.

That's interesting. I would think it's easier to adapt the A321XLR than the 737-10 though. Due to the fly-by-wire technology.
But if it ends up needing a new type rating, that might be problematic.

Opus99 · Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:11 pm

StTim wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Will be the testing long? Maybe for the load and ACT? the frame is not too innovative compared to the NEO...

Rumours on various 737-10 and 777X threads that the XLR is also going to be impacted by the fallout on the MAX. Personally this makes no sense to me and whether it would be just for FAA approval I do not know.

I don’t even think you need a subjective lens here . It doesn’t make sense anyway you look at it really. So are they now saying every aircraft has it have its own type certificate? It doesn’t make sense, there are less changes on the XLR than CEO to NEO

pugman211 · Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:35 pm

Isn't this more to do with the new center tank being right underneath passengers feet and the cold soak from the fuel?

tomcat · Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:17 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
Will be the testing long? Maybe for the load and ACT? the frame is not too innovative compared to the NEO...

There is a new flap configuration to certify. I also think that the ACT has introduced a different load path on the lower fuselage towards the front end of the ACT where it connects by means of tension bolts with the new to me Flange Module of the Section 15.

ZEDZAG · Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:41 pm

If I can see well, that looks like LEAP, wasnt the first test frame supposed to be GTF?

StTim · Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:05 pm

tomcat wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Will be the testing long? Maybe for the load and ACT? the frame is not too innovative compared to the NEO...

There is a new flap configuration to certify. I also think that the ACT has introduced a different load path on the lower fuselage towards the front end of the ACT where it connects by means of tension bolts with the new to me Flange Module of the Section 15.

Also according to the aircurrent there is a fly by wire rudder.

zkojq · Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:00 pm

StTim wrote:
tomcat wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
Will be the testing long? Maybe for the load and ACT? the frame is not too innovative compared to the NEO...

There is a new flap configuration to certify. I also think that the ACT has introduced a different load path on the lower fuselage towards the front end of the ACT where it connects by means of tension bolts with the new to me Flange Module of the Section 15.

Also according to the aircurrent there is a fly by wire rudder.

I don't think that's specific to the XLR though, is it? Airbus is implementing that change/upgrade to the entire A320neo family. It may well be that the XLR is the first one, though.

gatibosgru · Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:40 am

What makes an XLR so different from a crew operation go the regular NEO?

airplanedriver6 · Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:48 am

gatibosgru wrote:
What makes an XLR so different from a crew operation go the regular NEO?

Not much, which is one the major selling points.

The fly by wire rudder, new center fuel tank, and updated flight control computers will require one-time differences training which is pretty minor all things considered.

LAX772LR · Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:24 am

Who again is going to be launch customer for the -XLR?

gatibosgru wrote:
What makes an XLR so different from a crew operation go the regular NEO?

The only real significant difference is the weight, which isn't much (98T vs 101T). Otherwise, should handle about the same.

Thunderboltdrgn · Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:04 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Who again is going to be launch customer for the -XLR?

gatibosgru wrote:
What makes an XLR so different from a crew operation go the regular NEO?

The only real significant difference is the weight, which isn't much (98T vs 101T). Otherwise, should handle about the same.

MEA it seems: https://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrive ... -customer/

Thunderboltdrgn · Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:06 am

ZEDZAG wrote:
If I can see well, that looks like LEAP, wasnt the first test frame supposed to be GTF?

Airbus says it's LEAP

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/news ... l-assembly

Next steps

From here MSN11000 will enter a working party to install its sophisticated flight-test-instrumentation (FTI) suite followed by installation of its CFM LEAP engines and nacelles

keesje · Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:28 am

source: https://mobile.twitter.com/theaircurrent

It seems PW plans a thrust / sfc improvement, CFM doesn't.

StTim · Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:12 am

keesje wrote:

source: https://mobile.twitter.com/theaircurrent

It seems PW plans a thrust / sfc improvement, CFM doesn't.

I would love to know what the uprated thrust of the PW engine means for the XLR performance.

JerseyFlyer · Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:30 am

If the LEAP is unchanged, that may explain Airbus fitting it to the first XLR, to give PW time to validate their changes

tvh · Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:40 am

keesje wrote:

source: https://mobile.twitter.com/theaircurrent

It seems PW plans a thrust / sfc improvement, CFM doesn't.

If I look at these specs, would there be a market for a A321MR ( mid-range). Identical to the XLR, but with a smaller rear fuel tank that takes up just 1 LD3 position. Not everybody needs so much range and it could carry a little more freight.

emre787 · Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:54 am

tvh wrote:
If I look at these specs, would there be a market for a A321MR ( mid-range). Identical to the XLR, but with a smaller rear fuel tank that takes up just 1 LD3 position. Not everybody needs so much range and it could carry a little more freight.

Well, isn't this the A321LR already?

StTim · Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:26 am

emre787 wrote:
tvh wrote:
If I look at these specs, would there be a market for a A321MR ( mid-range). Identical to the XLR, but with a smaller rear fuel tank that takes up just 1 LD3 position. Not everybody needs so much range and it could carry a little more freight.

Well, isn't this the A321LR already?

Not really as the LR uses removeable tanks in the cargo holds to provide the extra fuel - at the expense of cargo volume. I recognise the suggestion as having mileage but the problem is how many different versions of the 321 does Airbus wish to manufacture.

pugman211 · Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:44 am

Why make another variant when you can just fill the tank halfway? I get it from a cost point of view, that an XLR will attract a price tag premium, but so would an 'MLR'

JonesNL · Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:40 am

StTim wrote:
keesje wrote:

source: https://mobile.twitter.com/theaircurrent

It seems PW plans a thrust / sfc improvement, CFM doesn't.

I would love to know what the uprated thrust of the PW engine means for the XLR performance.

I am more curious in de efficiency delta between the PW and CFM engine?

godsbeloved · Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:41 am

tvh wrote:
keesje wrote:

source: https://mobile.twitter.com/theaircurrent

It seems PW plans a thrust / sfc improvement, CFM doesn't.

If I look at these specs, would there be a market for a A321MR ( mid-range). Identical to the XLR, but with a smaller rear fuel tank that takes up just 1 LD3 position. Not everybody needs so much range and it could carry a little more freight.

How do you fit an LD3 into A320 family aircraft?
But wasn't the XLR meant to fit in more fuel without having to sacrifice cargo hold volume?

Polot · Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:49 am

godsbeloved wrote:
tvh wrote:
keesje wrote:

source: https://mobile.twitter.com/theaircurrent

It seems PW plans a thrust / sfc improvement, CFM doesn't.

If I look at these specs, would there be a market for a A321MR ( mid-range). Identical to the XLR, but with a smaller rear fuel tank that takes up just 1 LD3 position. Not everybody needs so much range and it could carry a little more freight.

How do you fit an LD3 into A320 family aircraft?
But wasn't the XLR meant to fit in more fuel without having to sacrifice cargo hold volume?

It’s an LD3-45.

The XLR holds more fuel than a A321LR while taking up less cargo space. But it still sacrifices cargo volume against a normal A321. The XLR’s RCT holds about the equivalent of 4 ACTs but takes up the space of 2 ACTs (LRs can hold 3 ACTs).

lightsaber · Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:29 pm

pugman211 wrote:
Why make another variant when you can just fill the tank halfway? I get it from a cost point of view, that an XLR will attract a price tag premium, but so would an 'MLR'

I concur, it isn't free to certify a plane.
A321xLR
A321LR
A321NEO

It took years of effort and the xLR isn't yet certified (but is close). Why reduce resale values by having an even more varied global fleet?

Lightsaber

FromCDGtoSYD · Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:27 pm

What are the pros and cons of the single slotted flaps for them to only be on the xlr?

ZEDZAG · Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:22 pm

Are single slotted flaps exclusive to XLR or will they be a standard on other 321? Same question about MTOW?

JohanTally · Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:24 pm

ZEDZAG wrote:
Are single slotted flaps exclusive to XLR or will they be a standard on other 321? Same question about MTOW?

At this moment they are exclusive to the XLR but assembly line commonality frequently wins out.

BWIAirport · Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:48 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
What are the pros and cons of the single slotted flaps for them to only be on the xlr?

On previous iterations of the A321, of course, the second slot on the inboard flaps increased the chord of the wing for low-speed periods of flight. Airbus determined that the additional weight of the added section of flaps was not justified by the increase in performance coupled with the other improvements made to the A321XLR, namely more powerful engines and lighter materials.

Noshow · Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:11 pm

They want to simplify the mechanics but keep or increase the performance by adding new and different flap settings. This will make for interesting flight testing.

ikolkyo · Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:28 pm

In that Air Current graphic it mentions a forward center tank, is this included in that range figure?

tvh · Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:06 pm

pugman211 wrote:
Why make another variant when you can just fill the tank halfway? I get it from a cost point of view, that an XLR will attract a price tag premium, but so would an 'MLR'

Apart from the extra development cost, one medium sized rear centre fuel tank will be cheaper and lighter than two ACT tanks and offers more cargo space. So many A321's are fitted with one or two ACT tanks that it may pay of to optimise this solution. When Airbus first designed the ACT’s is was a cheap and quick solution for a few customers who wanted more range. They probably never expected they would build as many as they currently do. So now it may be worth optimizing it. A MLR could also be a good base for a new build freighter if somebody would ask for it.

Jshank83 · Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:22 pm

Is there a list of XLR orders somewhere? Usually Wikipedia has at least a semi updated list but it doesn't seem to break out XLRs. I've looked around and found some old articles on orders but nothing that seems to be up to date.

If there is a delivery schedule by airline that would be good also but that might be harder to find. Just curious who has ordered what and what order they will be getting them.

Extra300 · Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:12 pm

I have not seen any order list for the XLR, but let´s make one.

My source is mainly wikipedia, please correct my list if you have more credible sources. I also guarantee that I have missed an airline or two, so please add.

Airlines
American Airlines 50
United 50
Qantas 20
JetBlue 13
Iberia 8
Aer Lingus 6
Air Arabia 20
VietJetAir 20
MEA 4
SKY Airlines 10
Wizz Air 47
Jet Smart 14
Air Asia X 20
Air Canada 26

Option
IndiGo options to convert an unknown number to XLR from their bulk order of over 300 321 Neo
Frontier. Option to convert 18 321Neo to XLR

Lessors
BOC Aviation 10
ALC 27
AerCap 20

Polot · Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:25 pm

Extra300 wrote:
I have not seen any order list for the XLR, but let´s make one.

My source is mainly wikipedia, please correct my list if you have more credible sources. I also guarantee that I have missed an airline or two, so please add.

Airlines
American Airlines 50
United 50
Qantas 20
JetBlue 13
Iberia 8
Aer Lingus 6
Air Arabia 20
VietJetAir 20
MEA 4
SKY Airlines 10
Wizz Air 47
Jet Smart 14
Air Asia X 20
Air Canada 26

Option
IndiGo options to convert an unknown number to XLR from their bulk order of over 300 321 Neo
Frontier. Option to convert 18 321Neo to XLR

Lessors
BOC Aviation 10
ALC 27
AerCap 20

That list includes some double counting. For example only 6 of AC’s are direct from Airbus. 15 are ALC and 5 are AerCap.

keesje · Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:01 am

https://twitter.com/RadarBox24/status/1 ... 56/photo/1

Soon to be painted I guess, for flight testing this summer and first deliveries next year.

hitower3 · Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:49 pm

By the way, will the XLR get a separate ICAO designator?

scbriml · Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:30 pm

hitower3 wrote:
By the way, will the XLR get a separate ICAO designator?

I doubt it. The LR doesn't seem to have, so not sure why the XLR would be different.

Thunderboltdrgn · Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:19 pm

keesje wrote:

https://twitter.com/RadarBox24/status/1 ... 56/photo/1

Soon to be painted I guess, for flight testing this summer and first deliveries next year.

That was almost two weeks ago do we think it has been painted by now?

JohanTally · Tue May 03, 2022 2:17 am

MSN 11000 has rolled out of paint and hopefully takes to the sky soon. If everything goes smoothly deliveries could be right around the corner.

https://youtu.be/0HYUaZu_264

Articuno · Tue May 03, 2022 2:43 am

From the pictures, the XLR still has the double-slotted flaps like a normal A321?

JohanTally · Tue May 03, 2022 2:50 am

Articuno wrote:
From the pictures, the XLR still has the double-slotted flaps like a normal A321?

At 12 seconds in the video I shared it appears to be single slotted flaps I believe.

pugman211 · Tue May 03, 2022 7:32 am

Double slots outboard, single slot inboard.

First we should see taxi tests, before first flight which I imagine Airbus will invite the media.

How many hours flight testing is required? I can't remember the figure quoted.

keesje · Tue May 03, 2022 7:46 am

It left the paint hall

https://www.pilootenvliegtuig.nl/2022/05/02/fotos-airbus-start-assemblage-eerste-prototype-a321lxr/

I guess testing will be extensive, the modifications are much more extensive than e.g.on the A321LR.

The RTO e.g. will be at 101t, bringing in higher loads, and temperatures.. :yummy:

Avatar2go · Wed May 04, 2022 10:44 am

Reports that certification of the A321XLR may be delayed for review of the fuselage fuel tank.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 022-05-04/

Opus99 · Wed May 04, 2022 10:48 am

Avatar2go wrote:
Reports that certification of the A321XLR may be delayed for review of the fuselage fuel tank.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 022-05-04/

Would this have happened if the MAX crisis didn’t take place?

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