flyfresno wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]Sounds about like a Cali idea. Walk out front door, bus to nowhere airport, fly to "wrong" airport, bus again to "right" airport, slog thru there to finally get on plane to hub, then finally destination airport. Think I'd rather just go directly to departure field and get on with it. Is anyone in these areas clamoring for multi modal service to FAT?

Why not just run a Caravan from SMF stopping at 5 cities en route to LAX and at least give these folks a shot at a much larger airport to connect at.

LAX is a longer flight and would entail extremely pricy landing fees. SMF would be closer, but the connections might not be that much better vs FAT to justify it (especially if the target is people headed to Mexico, both airports have nearly equal service south of the boarder aside from SMF-SJD). In either case, flying into any commercial airport (including FAT) would require TSA screening at the outstation airports, the costs of that might be too high.

Um, you can dump them off at an FBO. Don't need TSA to fly into an airport.

sprxUSA wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]Sounds about like a Cali idea. Walk out front door, bus to nowhere airport, fly to "wrong" airport, bus again to "right" airport, slog thru there to finally get on plane to hub, then finally destination airport. Think I'd rather just go directly to departure field and get on with it. Is anyone in these areas clamoring for multi modal service to FAT?

Why not just run a Caravan from SMF stopping at 5 cities en route to LAX and at least give these folks a shot at a much larger airport to connect at.

LAX is a longer flight and would entail extremely pricy landing fees. SMF would be closer, but the connections might not be that much better vs FAT to justify it (especially if the target is people headed to Mexico, both airports have nearly equal service south of the boarder aside from SMF-SJD). In either case, flying into any commercial airport (including FAT) would require TSA screening at the outstation airports, the costs of that might be too high.

Um, you can dump them off at an FBO. Don't need TSA to fly into an airport.

Possibly. SMF only has one FBO and I think LAX has one or maybe two...high usage fees and poor connections to the terminals (LAX's are all the way on the south side of the airport). There are reasons most EAS and other small aircraft airlines don't do it this way. If you are going to fly into a big airport, why not just use the terminal?

whatusaid wrote:

I’d love to see service at FCH. A couple years back, I had the opportunity to fly on a Tri-Motor there and it was the perfect experience for those who who never had the opportunity back in the day. The airport is a gem that few experience.

For what it’s worth, back in the Air 21 days, route guru Ed Barth was talking about flying from both FAT and FCH, which is a hint as to why Air 21 failed.

This grant application is an embarrassment. Just run a bus from the west side to FAT for AM and Y4. MX did that from the South Valley and I don’t know how well it did, but there remains a number of busses that head from FAT to TIJ every day which suggests there remains untapped demand. Perhaps there remains a gap for rural communities, even though our flights to Mexico are packed.

The restored 1930s terminal building at FCH is a nice gem. More AvGeeks should visit it.

LOL, Ed Barth is a name out of the past. He and Mark had what I would call "interesting" views of how to operate Air 21.

I agree that the aircraft leg makes no sense in this proposal. I understand the transportation problems in those rural areas, not like the residents can just summon Uber/Lyft for an airport run. But a bus or even a future driverless shuttle system seems more feasible to me.

I'm hoping Tim or someone else in the media can dig up some details on the proposal. For example, one of the companies involved is WingTips (Personal Airline Exchange). They just received seed funding last year for a business plan that sounds to me like an idea for an Uber/Lyft/AIrBnB for small aircraft. Did they approach the rural transit agencies with this idea?

FAT has posted the PowerPoint slides it will use during the outreach sessions for local small businesses interested in the new concession opportunities in the terminal.
http://flyfresno.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/FAT-Outreach-Local-Operator-101-Final.pdf

The city Department of Airports has posted several RFQs looking for professional services companies to consult on projects at FAT and FCH over the next 5 years. They are looking for various engineering and architectural services.
http://flyfresno.com/business-opportunities/

The exhibit in each RFQ gives us an idea of the projects that are being considered for the next 5 years at FAT and FCH. Just open one of the RFQs at the link.

Just some of the FAT potential 5 year project list from the RFQs:

• Passenger Terminal Expansion Phase 2 (note: I assume this is the additional gate(s) mentioned in the master plan but left out of the current expansion)
• Parking Garage Expansion – Phase 2 (note: the airport previously indicated when the new garage opened last year that they would still be filling 75% of available spaces including the new garage and would need to plan for another garage)
• Passenger Boarding Bridge Gate 7 (note: sounds to me like the current gates 5 to 8 will remain single story for the foreseeable future instead of replacing that old concourse section with a new 2-story building)
• Terminal Interior Remodel and Upgrade
• Terminal East Apron Expansion Phase 2
• Terminal North Apron Reconstruction
• RTR Relocation (note: needs to be moved to allow for a 2nd concourse in the future)
• New ATCT
• New ARFF Station
• Expand Air Cargo Ramp
• plus a number of GA and airfield projects

FATFlyer wrote:

[*] New ATCT

I'm guessing this will coincide with FAT taking over BFL's TRACON. Hopefully FAT will finally get D-ATIS and CPDLC as part of the replacement...

flyfresno wrote:

FATFlyer wrote:

[*] New ATCT

I'm guessing this will coincide with FAT taking over BFL's TRACON. Hopefully FAT will finally get D-ATIS and CPDLC as part of the replacement...

They needed a new tower like 20 years ago. So glad this is in the works.

FATFlyer wrote:

The city Department of Airports has posted several RFQs looking for professional services companies to consult on projects at FAT and FCH over the next 5 years. They are looking for various engineering and architectural services.
http://flyfresno.com/business-opportunities/

The exhibit in each RFQ gives us an idea of the projects that are being considered for the next 5 years at FAT and FCH. Just open one of the RFQs at the link.

Just some of the FAT potential 5 year project list from the RFQs:

• Passenger Terminal Expansion Phase 2 (note: I assume this is the additional gate(s) mentioned in the master plan but left out of the current expansion)
• Parking Garage Expansion – Phase 2 (note: the airport previously indicated when the new garage opened last year that they would still be filling 75% of available spaces including the new garage and would need to plan for another garage)
• Passenger Boarding Bridge Gate 7 (note: sounds to me like the current gates 5 to 8 will remain single story for the foreseeable future instead of replacing that old concourse section with a new 2-story building)
• Terminal Interior Remodel and Upgrade
• Terminal East Apron Expansion Phase 2
• Terminal North Apron Reconstruction
• RTR Relocation (note: needs to be moved to allow for a 2nd concourse in the future)
• New ATCT
• New ARFF Station
• Expand Air Cargo Ramp
• plus a number of GA and airfield projects

Flying out earlier this last week I noticed the upper floors of the Parking Garage were not available. Honestly, I had not noticed this previously as I always nabbed a space on the ground floor.
So, why is the full facility not being used? is there a timetable to open it up? With traffic levels back at (or nearly so) early 2020/late 2019 levels every space should be available for use. I would think seeing use patterns for the entire facility would be helpful to determine what needs to be done for 5 years from now. And, we are already paying for the entire garage with the new rates anyway. Any insight and updated information is appreciated! Have a great week!

Tan Flyr wrote:

Flying out earlier this last week I noticed the upper floors of the Parking Garage were not available. Honestly, I had not noticed this previously as I always nabbed a space on the ground floor.
So, why is the full facility not being used? is there a timetable to open it up? With traffic levels back at (or nearly so) early 2020/late 2019 levels every space should be available for use. I would think seeing use patterns for the entire facility would be helpful to determine what needs to be done for 5 years from now. And, we are already paying for the entire garage with the new rates anyway. Any insight and updated information is appreciated! Have a great week!

The top floor of the garage is supposed to receive solar panels (along with panels on some of the surface lot to the east of the parking lot toll booths). The project also includes a Megapack storage system west of the garage.

My guess is the solar panel installation is the reason the top floor of the garage is not open yet.

The contract for the solar system said installation was supposed to start about June/July 2022. We will see if the project meets that schedule. But it does mean the garage top floor will likely not be open this summer.

FAT flyer…thanks for the info. Perhaps they can find a way to open at least the second floor! It sure seems to me the spaces could be utilized quickly.

One thing that I think is interesting is how FAT is still advertising the AA ORD flight as a seasonal service rather than removing it from the graphic. While they probably didn’t want to make a whole new graphic, maybe this indicates that the airport is still talking with AA and maybe the flight could start up again in the future.

FAT has a video on Facebook and other socials with Jerry Dyer celebrating the 1st year of WN service to FAT. They are asking for comments on where WN should fly to next from FAT. Seems like FAT is trying to show WN that people want more than just the 2 destinations they have now.

WN732 wrote:

FAT has a video on Facebook and other socials with Jerry Dyer celebrating the 1st year of WN service to FAT. They are asking for comments on where WN should fly to next from FAT. Seems like FAT is trying to show WN that people want more than just the 2 destinations they have now.

The top two requests so far seem to be HNL and MDW, although that was just doing a quick run through count on the different platforms. Also saw a lot of DAL and quite a bit of intrastate. Not a ton of PHX, but a few. Love the random smaller cities like Providence, Cheyenne, and Greensboro

flyfresno wrote:

WN732 wrote:

FAT has a video on Facebook and other socials with Jerry Dyer celebrating the 1st year of WN service to FAT. They are asking for comments on where WN should fly to next from FAT. Seems like FAT is trying to show WN that people want more than just the 2 destinations they have now.

The top two requests so far seem to be HNL and MDW, although that was just doing a quick run through count on the different platforms. Also saw a lot of DAL and quite a bit of intrastate. Not a ton of PHX, but a few. Love the random smaller cities like Providence, Cheyenne, and Greensboro

I’ve been on a couple MDW one stops coming into FAT with few through pax. I expected far more given that ORD had been suspended by UA.

Considering the “new market” EUG loads are strong and are now supporting the add of SJC and the other “new market”SBA remains dismal but was good enough to add SMF and now has six flights a day to four cities, you think FAT feels left out? After roaring out of the gate, FAT pax counts are showing more “love” to AA and less “luv” to WN.

If I were G4, I’d be fuming from all of the social media attention to WN.

A few interesting adds for the fall. UA’s update today has a number of ORD cuts, including SBA, but FAT remains and is upped to 737-700 at 7a; DEN keeps the 2nd 319. AA update returns a 321 to DFW in Dec. AS 2X mainline SEA includes a 6a (finally) and SAN returns to 3X 175’s in Dec as well. Granted, placeholders may not survive, but UA finally seems intent on making a run at AA. Even SFO goes 5X, which is pretty aggressive given the OO pilot shortage.

whatusaid wrote:

Even SFO goes 5X, which is pretty aggressive given the OO pilot shortage.

LAX will also go back up to 3X from 2X over the summer.

LAX has been an interesting market lately out of FAT. Once the top market by seats from FAT and still quite strong until just a few years ago (it was the top market by total pax out of FAT as recently as a few months in 2018), it appears that the shift by airlines to more eastern hubs as well as a continued reduction in transpacific travel has caused it to be much less important from FAT. DL couldn't makes it work and AS is struggling with it...could we see just one airline on the route and/or a total halt of LAX flights from FAT within the next decade?

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

Even SFO goes 5X, which is pretty aggressive given the OO pilot shortage.

LAX will also go back up to 3X from 2X over the summer.

LAX has been an interesting market lately out of FAT. Once the top market by seats from FAT and still quite strong until just a few years ago (it was the top market by total pax out of FAT as recently as a few months in 2018), it appears that the shift by airlines to more eastern hubs as well as a continued reduction in transpacific travel has caused it to be much less important from FAT. DL couldn't makes it work and AS is struggling with it...could we see just one airline on the route and/or a total halt of LAX flights from FAT within the next decade?

I doubt it, especially with UA getting those new electric planes soon. I could see them deploy those throughout California to places like FAT maybe. That’s is they do operate them out of LAX though. However, with how much traffic there is from LAX to international destinations, I don’t see LAX ever disappearing.

According to the Fresno Bee, at the State of the City Address this week, the mayor stated that "Fresno is Southwest Airlines’ highest performing new launch market." Does that jive with what everyone has seen? At the very least, COS appears to be doing better, but I'm not sure how he defines "new launch market."

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/ar ... 81802.html

flyfresno wrote:

According to the Fresno Bee, at the State of the City Address this week, the mayor stated that "Fresno is Southwest Airlines’ highest performing new launch market." Does that jive with what everyone has seen? At the very least, COS appears to be doing better, but I'm not sure how he defines "new launch market."

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/ar ... 81802.html

At one time last summer, FAT was performing better (load factor) than all other new cities. That changed this fall. FAT had a mostly pathetic performance in in January and February. Looking at FAT statistics for FEB, WN filled 10369 of the 16054 seats outbound for a 64.5% LF. SBA filled 10378 of their 20265 seats, for a dismal 51% LF. From my travels in March and April, we're back at much higher levels. EUG has been strong since their first month.

Looks like the 4th SLC flight is being removed for July and August. Still showing operating in September. Staffing issues?

flyfresno wrote:

Looks like the 4th SLC flight is being removed for July and August. Still showing operating in September. Staffing issues?

That’s what I’m guessing. AS carnaged PDX flights in October/November to a bunch of SkyWest cities. They’re also probably expecting staffing issues.

WN pushed an update tonight. LAS goes 4X starting July 5. Just last week I heard PHX was next, which has been rumored for months. So much for rumors.

Btw, G4 has blinked. Schedule is being cut in their extension.

whatusaid wrote:

WN pushed an update tonight. LAS goes 4X starting July 5. Just last week I heard PHX was next, which has been rumored for months. So much for rumors.

Btw, G4 has blinked. Schedule is being cut in their extension.

I think G4 will eventually end up around 5-6X per week total, and that will be it. Something like 1X Th, 2X Fr, 2X Su, 1X Mo. The rest of their service just can't compete with the connections WN offers.

Nice to see another LAS (still 2X on Sa though), but also hoping for a second DEN!

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

WN pushed an update tonight. LAS goes 4X starting July 5. Just last week I heard PHX was next, which has been rumored for months. So much for rumors.

Btw, G4 has blinked. Schedule is being cut in their extension.

I think G4 will eventually end up around 5-6X per week total, and that will be it. Something like 1X Th, 2X Fr, 2X Su, 1X Mo. The rest of their service just can't compete with the connections WN offers.

Nice to see another LAS (still 2X on Sa though), but also hoping for a second DEN!

I think this could be the start of the decline of G4 at FAT similar to what happened to F9. However I don’t think they leave FAT entirely. I think they could try a new market WN doesn’t service currently like SNA or AZA, although WN would add PHX in a heartbeat then.

I think next we get a second DEN or PHX by the end of the year, especially before the winter travel season. Adding PHX would be massive in terms of connections.

whatusaid wrote:

WN pushed an update tonight. LAS goes 4X starting July 5. Just last week I heard PHX was next, which has been rumored for months. So much for rumors.

Btw, G4 has blinked. Schedule is being cut in their extension.

I didn’t really see anything in a WN pushed last night I know another flights nice but hopefully they add PHX in the extension for next month. They will be fully staffed by end of the year so maybe good time then and they got gates to fill there.

Wneast wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

WN pushed an update tonight. LAS goes 4X starting July 5. Just last week I heard PHX was next, which has been rumored for months. So much for rumors.

Btw, G4 has blinked. Schedule is being cut in their extension.

I didn’t really see anything in a WN pushed last night I know another flights nice but hopefully they add PHX in the extension for next month. They will be fully staffed by end of the year so maybe good time then and they got gates to fill there.

Don't forget DEN is adding a ton of new gates!

flyfresno wrote:

Wneast wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

WN pushed an update tonight. LAS goes 4X starting July 5. Just last week I heard PHX was next, which has been rumored for months. So much for rumors.

Btw, G4 has blinked. Schedule is being cut in their extension.

I didn’t really see anything in a WN pushed last night I know another flights nice but hopefully they add PHX in the extension for next month. They will be fully staffed by end of the year so maybe good time then and they got gates to fill there.

Don't forget DEN is adding a ton of new gates!

Yes 16!

March stats are posted, all up vs 2019. Will be interesting to see specific destination breakdowns once the BTS dashboard is updated.

Enplaned Domestic:

March 2022: 70,982
March 2019: 64,151

Enplaned Int'l:

March 2022: 10,802
March 2019: 8,834

Enplaned Total:

March 2022: 81,784
March 2019: 72,985

Fiscal YTD, FAT is almost 139,000 total passengers above the 2018/2019 numbers for enplanements.

https://flyfresno.com/wp-content/upload ... h-2022.pdf

Also, DL appears to be the only airline not increasing flying for the summer from FAT, they are holding pat at 3X per day to SLC with a few 4X days. Other CA airports have seen major increases (SMF notably), but not FAT.

I see that AS seems to be settling in at double-daily EMJs between SAN and FAT as they start messing with the end-of-2022 skeds. Timing is not always ideal but hey, these days, we have to settle for what they give us! (BTW, the placeholder skeds for 2023 still have 3x daily r/t in the market but who knows if that'll hold up.)

At least I'm seeing a near-term-future trend of AS trying to keep both flights daily. That's a positive sign to me!

Good luck all with your WN-wishing and airport expansion; those have got to be full-time jobs these days! I enjoy following the continuing dynamics involving FAT!

bb

flyfresno wrote:

March stats are posted, all up vs 2019. Will be interesting to see specific destination breakdowns once the BTS dashboard is updated.

Enplaned Domestic:

March 2022: 70,982
March 2019: 64,151

Enplaned Int'l:

March 2022: 10,802
March 2019: 8,834

Enplaned Total:

March 2022: 81,784
March 2019: 72,985

Fiscal YTD, FAT is almost 139,000 total passengers above the 2018/2019 numbers for enplanements.

https://flyfresno.com/wp-content/upload ... h-2022.pdf

Also, DL appears to be the only airline not increasing flying for the summer from FAT, they are holding pat at 3X per day to SLC with a few 4X days. Other CA airports have seen major increases (SMF notably), but not FAT.

DL is probably expected staffing issues to remain on SkyWest. Maybe it’s time for them to add some mainline to fix that…

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

March stats are posted, all up vs 2019. Will be interesting to see specific destination breakdowns once the BTS dashboard is updated.

Enplaned Domestic:

March 2022: 70,982
March 2019: 64,151

Enplaned Int'l:

March 2022: 10,802
March 2019: 8,834

Enplaned Total:

March 2022: 81,784
March 2019: 72,985

Fiscal YTD, FAT is almost 139,000 total passengers above the 2018/2019 numbers for enplanements.

https://flyfresno.com/wp-content/upload ... h-2022.pdf

Also, DL appears to be the only airline not increasing flying for the summer from FAT, they are holding pat at 3X per day to SLC with a few 4X days. Other CA airports have seen major increases (SMF notably), but not FAT.

DL is probably expected staffing issues to remain on SkyWest. Maybe it’s time for them to add some mainline to fix that…

I'm guessing it's ultimately staffing related at both airlines, but it also seems that DL is focusing on larger airports and most of their reductions are at smaller airports. For example, COS's (mainline) ATL flight was just taken off the schedule (again).

Looks like the tower replacement is seeing some movement.

The proposed 2023 budget from the Mayor includes a $2,500,000 item for "AC00422 - AIP FAT TOWER Replacement". I don't see any detail about the expenditure. But that amount sounds to me like it is probably for a planning/design phase.

The budget also says about the terminal expansion: "Front-end work is well underway, and construction is scheduled to begin in the first quarter of calendar year 2023." So a delay in that construction start.

FATFlyer wrote:

Looks like the tower replacement is seeing some movement.

The proposed 2023 budget from the Mayor includes a $2,500,000 item for "AC00422 - AIP FAT TOWER Replacement". I don't see any detail about the expenditure. But that amount sounds to me like it is probably for a planning/design phase.

The budget also says about the terminal expansion: "Front-end work is well underway, and construction is scheduled to begin in the first quarter of calendar year 2023." So a delay in that construction start.

Thanks for doing some digging for that info. I'm guessing this will also include the TRACON consolidation with BFL, and hopefully D-ATIS/CPDLC options.

SANFan wrote:

I see that AS seems to be settling in at double-daily EMJs between SAN and FAT as they start messing with the end-of-2022 skeds. Timing is not always ideal but hey, these days, we have to settle for what they give us! (BTW, the placeholder skeds for 2023 still have 3x daily r/t in the market but who knows if that'll hold up.)

At least I'm seeing a near-term-future trend of AS trying to keep both flights daily. That's a positive sign to me!

Good luck all with your WN-wishing and airport expansion; those have got to be full-time jobs these days! I enjoy following the continuing dynamics involving FAT!

bb

Appears AS loaded yet another November/December update tonight. SAN goes back to 3X on Skywest. A second mainline is added for SEA - rare sight, 737-700 @ 8:40p. The MAX 9 goes to 10a, just late enough to miss the SEA Hawaii departures. Of course, an AS schedule loaded this far out is more wishful thinking than anything else.

whatusaid wrote:

Appears AS loaded yet another November/December update tonight. SAN goes back to 3X on Skywest. A second mainline is added for SEA - rare sight, 737-700 @ 8:40p. The MAX 9 goes to 10a, just late enough to miss the SEA Hawaii departures. Of course, an AS schedule loaded this far out is more wishful thinking than anything else.

The timing of the late flight also makes no sense, it's basically relying on pure O&D, missing even GEG, FAI, and YVR by a few minutes, and ANC/East Coast redeyes by over an hour. A 6:40pm departure would seem to make a lot more sense...

The March BTS Dashboard is out. LAS has overtaken DFW as the #1 domestic destination from FAT. WN has grown its market share to just shy of 15% (from 10% just six months ago). Comparing March 2019 to March 2022, here are the top destinations from FAT by total pax:

2019: 1. LAX 2. DFW 3. PHX 4. DEN 5. SFO 6. SEA 7. LAS 8. SAN 9. SLC 10. PDX

2022: 1. LAS 2. DFW 3. DEN 4. PHX 5. SLC 6. SEA 7. LAX 9. SFO 9. SAN 10. PDX

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... 4vr4=SNPgf

flyfresno wrote:

The March BTS Dashboard is out. LAS has overtaken DFW as the #1 domestic destination from FAT. WN has grown its market share to just shy of 15% (from 10% just six months ago). Comparing March 2019 to March 2022, here are the top destinations from FAT by total pax:

2019: 1. LAX 2. DFW 3. PHX 4. DEN 5. SFO 6. SEA 7. LAS 8. SAN 9. SLC 10. PDX

2022: 1. LAS 2. DFW 3. DEN 4. PHX 5. SLC 6. SEA 7. LAX 9. SFO 9. SAN 10. PDX

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... 4vr4=SNPgf

Amazing how far LAX went down.

flyfresno wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

Appears AS loaded yet another November/December update tonight. SAN goes back to 3X on Skywest. A second mainline is added for SEA - rare sight, 737-700 @ 8:40p. The MAX 9 goes to 10a, just late enough to miss the SEA Hawaii departures. Of course, an AS schedule loaded this far out is more wishful thinking than anything else.

The timing of the late flight also makes no sense, it's basically relying on pure O&D, missing even GEG, FAI, and YVR by a few minutes, and ANC/East Coast redeyes by over an hour. A 6:40pm departure would seem to make a lot more sense...

The late flight makes sense if you consider most -700 flights in the lower 48 are tag ons from an ANC flight to return to ANC after a round trip. There are several examples in the AS system but SEA-GEG happens quite often.

WN732 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

The March BTS Dashboard is out. LAS has overtaken DFW as the #1 domestic destination from FAT. WN has grown its market share to just shy of 15% (from 10% just six months ago). Comparing March 2019 to March 2022, here are the top destinations from FAT by total pax:

2019: 1. LAX 2. DFW 3. PHX 4. DEN 5. SFO 6. SEA 7. LAS 8. SAN 9. SLC 10. PDX

2022: 1. LAS 2. DFW 3. DEN 4. PHX 5. SLC 6. SEA 7. LAX 9. SFO 9. SAN 10. PDX

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... 4vr4=SNPgf

Amazing how far LAX went down.

Did a quick review of T100’s for March and it appears that G4 is feeling the pain of WN. No wonder they are starting to trim flights - LF in the 60’s hurts.

WN effect in full force.

WN732 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

The March BTS Dashboard is out. LAS has overtaken DFW as the #1 domestic destination from FAT. WN has grown its market share to just shy of 15% (from 10% just six months ago). Comparing March 2019 to March 2022, here are the top destinations from FAT by total pax:

2019: 1. LAX 2. DFW 3. PHX 4. DEN 5. SFO 6. SEA 7. LAS 8. SAN 9. SLC 10. PDX

2022: 1. LAS 2. DFW 3. DEN 4. PHX 5. SLC 6. SEA 7. LAX 9. SFO 9. SAN 10. PDX

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... 4vr4=SNPgf

Amazing how far LAX went down.

No more AA. AS has a "skeleton" schedule. DL is out after barely a year. It's really just UA now...

SLC went up almost as many spots as LAX went down.

flyfresno wrote:

WN732 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

The March BTS Dashboard is out. LAS has overtaken DFW as the #1 domestic destination from FAT. WN has grown its market share to just shy of 15% (from 10% just six months ago). Comparing March 2019 to March 2022, here are the top destinations from FAT by total pax:

2019: 1. LAX 2. DFW 3. PHX 4. DEN 5. SFO 6. SEA 7. LAS 8. SAN 9. SLC 10. PDX

2022: 1. LAS 2. DFW 3. DEN 4. PHX 5. SLC 6. SEA 7. LAX 9. SFO 9. SAN 10. PDX

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... 4vr4=SNPgf

Amazing how far LAX went down.

No more AA. AS has a "skeleton" schedule. DL is out after barely a year. It's really just UA now...

SLC went up almost as many spots as LAX went down.

The removal of testing to enter the US should help LAX and SFO out a bit I think. Trying to get a last-minute COVID test made Asia/Australia markets very unpopular for a bit.

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

WN732 wrote:

Amazing how far LAX went down.

No more AA. AS has a "skeleton" schedule. DL is out after barely a year. It's really just UA now...

SLC went up almost as many spots as LAX went down.

The removal of testing to enter the US should help LAX and SFO out a bit I think. Trying to get a last-minute COVID test made Asia/Australia markets very unpopular for a bit.

It will be interesting to see how much OneWorld traffic connects through LAX on AS. I'm not sure how many FAT pax per day traveled on connecting flights with JAL or QANTAS before the pandemic, but it seems like those would make up the majority of the connecting traffic through LAX heading forward since most BA pax likely connect in other OneWorld hubs, Hong Kong (Cathay) is still in a huge state of limbo, and there likely aren't many connecting pax on Fiji Airways. Similarly, other than some connections to Oceana, I have to believe that most Star int'l passengers will connect through SFO (with some through DEN/ORD who are headed to Europe). In short, I can see SFO benefiting more than LAX.

One interesting thing about the top three destinations is that they have all grown; as far as I can tell going back on the BTS dashboard, LAS, DFW, and DEN (the current top three) have never posted numbers as high as they did for a 12-month period ending in March. LAS is nearly 50% higher in total passengers than it was the last time it was the #1 destination from FAT (around 2008-2009, when there were three airlines on the route).

flyfresno wrote:

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

No more AA. AS has a "skeleton" schedule. DL is out after barely a year. It's really just UA now...

SLC went up almost as many spots as LAX went down.

The removal of testing to enter the US should help LAX and SFO out a bit I think. Trying to get a last-minute COVID test made Asia/Australia markets very unpopular for a bit.

It will be interesting to see how much OneWorld traffic connects through LAX on AS. I'm not sure how many FAT pax per day traveled on connecting flights with JAL or QANTAS before the pandemic, but it seems like those would make up the majority of the connecting traffic through LAX heading forward since most BA pax likely connect in other OneWorld hubs, Hong Kong (Cathay) is still in a huge state of limbo, and there likely aren't many connecting pax on Fiji Airways. Similarly, other than some connections to Oceana, I have to believe that most Star int'l passengers will connect through SFO (with some through DEN/ORD who are headed to Europe). In short, I can see SFO benefiting more than LAX.

One interesting thing about the top three destinations is that they have all grown; as far as I can tell going back on the BTS dashboard, LAS, DFW, and DEN (the current top three) have never posted numbers as high as they did for a 12-month period ending in March. LAS is nearly 50% higher in total passengers than it was the last time it was the #1 destination from FAT (around 2008-2009, when there were three airlines on the route).

The AS schedule to LAX isn't really timed for Asia, is it? Most of my Japan flying out of LAX has always been early afternoon. Of course, that single flight also bounces around, anywhere from 6a to noon, depending upon the whim of AS and aircraft availability and/or crew scheduling. I'd thought that AS would be able to grow LAX for the OneWorld, but there's nothing to connect to QF and if Asia isn't timed, then, LAX is nothing more than moving an aircraft into position for the AS network.

As to the future growth of LAS, with G4's March LF at 62% (T100 sourced), if they (G4) speed up their reduction in frequency, where are those O&D's pax heading? WN grew big time March over February/January to where they'll likely exceed 2021 numbers going into summer and weekends are a tough find at less than big $$$. While WN could add more frequency, Thr/Fri/Sunday G4 peak doesn't fit the WN model. And, with WN adding more gate capacity in DEN, we just may see added capacity to DEN before another build up of LAS beyond the current 3X (4X July/Aug) so, the O&D crowd be challenged to find a weekend seat and that could limit future growth for LAS. Granted, we might be we find some clarity in LAS capacity going into 2023 with the November WN schedule that's out this next week. I'll take added DEN and new PHX over another to LAS as it's not a great connecting airport. WN LAS is crowded (C is a test of endurance and bad food options) and dated and distanced (terminal B).

whatusaid wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

FlyLEN2019 wrote:

The removal of testing to enter the US should help LAX and SFO out a bit I think. Trying to get a last-minute COVID test made Asia/Australia markets very unpopular for a bit.

It will be interesting to see how much OneWorld traffic connects through LAX on AS. I'm not sure how many FAT pax per day traveled on connecting flights with JAL or QANTAS before the pandemic, but it seems like those would make up the majority of the connecting traffic through LAX heading forward since most BA pax likely connect in other OneWorld hubs, Hong Kong (Cathay) is still in a huge state of limbo, and there likely aren't many connecting pax on Fiji Airways. Similarly, other than some connections to Oceana, I have to believe that most Star int'l passengers will connect through SFO (with some through DEN/ORD who are headed to Europe). In short, I can see SFO benefiting more than LAX.

One interesting thing about the top three destinations is that they have all grown; as far as I can tell going back on the BTS dashboard, LAS, DFW, and DEN (the current top three) have never posted numbers as high as they did for a 12-month period ending in March. LAS is nearly 50% higher in total passengers than it was the last time it was the #1 destination from FAT (around 2008-2009, when there were three airlines on the route).

The AS schedule to LAX isn't really timed for Asia, is it? Most of my Japan flying out of LAX has always been early afternoon. Of course, that single flight also bounces around, anywhere from 6a to noon, depending upon the whim of AS and aircraft availability and/or crew scheduling. I'd thought that AS would be able to grow LAX for the OneWorld, but there's nothing to connect to QF and if Asia isn't timed, then, LAX is nothing more than moving an aircraft into position for the AS network.

As to the future growth of LAS, with G4's March LF at 62% (T100 sourced), if they (G4) speed up their reduction in frequency, where are those O&D's pax heading? WN grew big time March over February/January to where they'll likely exceed 2021 numbers going into summer and weekends are a tough find at less than big $$$. While WN could add more frequency, Thr/Fri/Sunday G4 peak doesn't fit the WN model. And, with WN adding more gate capacity in DEN, we just may see added capacity to DEN before another build up of LAS beyond the current 3X (4X July/Aug) so, the O&D crowd be challenged to find a weekend seat and that could limit future growth for LAS. Granted, we might be we find some clarity in LAS capacity going into 2023 with the November WN schedule that's out this next week. I'll take added DEN and new PHX over another to LAS as it's not a great connecting airport. WN LAS is crowded (C is a test of endurance and bad food options) and dated and distanced (terminal B).

You're absolutely right. Out of the 3 airports you mentioned LAS is the worst for just about everything. Would love to see an additional DEN.

WN732 wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

flyfresno wrote:

It will be interesting to see how much OneWorld traffic connects through LAX on AS. I'm not sure how many FAT pax per day traveled on connecting flights with JAL or QANTAS before the pandemic, but it seems like those would make up the majority of the connecting traffic through LAX heading forward since most BA pax likely connect in other OneWorld hubs, Hong Kong (Cathay) is still in a huge state of limbo, and there likely aren't many connecting pax on Fiji Airways. Similarly, other than some connections to Oceana, I have to believe that most Star int'l passengers will connect through SFO (with some through DEN/ORD who are headed to Europe). In short, I can see SFO benefiting more than LAX.

One interesting thing about the top three destinations is that they have all grown; as far as I can tell going back on the BTS dashboard, LAS, DFW, and DEN (the current top three) have never posted numbers as high as they did for a 12-month period ending in March. LAS is nearly 50% higher in total passengers than it was the last time it was the #1 destination from FAT (around 2008-2009, when there were three airlines on the route).

The AS schedule to LAX isn't really timed for Asia, is it? Most of my Japan flying out of LAX has always been early afternoon. Of course, that single flight also bounces around, anywhere from 6a to noon, depending upon the whim of AS and aircraft availability and/or crew scheduling. I'd thought that AS would be able to grow LAX for the OneWorld, but there's nothing to connect to QF and if Asia isn't timed, then, LAX is nothing more than moving an aircraft into position for the AS network.

As to the future growth of LAS, with G4's March LF at 62% (T100 sourced), if they (G4) speed up their reduction in frequency, where are those O&D's pax heading? WN grew big time March over February/January to where they'll likely exceed 2021 numbers going into summer and weekends are a tough find at less than big $$$. While WN could add more frequency, Thr/Fri/Sunday G4 peak doesn't fit the WN model. And, with WN adding more gate capacity in DEN, we just may see added capacity to DEN before another build up of LAS beyond the current 3X (4X July/Aug) so, the O&D crowd be challenged to find a weekend seat and that could limit future growth for LAS. Granted, we might be we find some clarity in LAS capacity going into 2023 with the November WN schedule that's out this next week. I'll take added DEN and new PHX over another to LAS as it's not a great connecting airport. WN LAS is crowded (C is a test of endurance and bad food options) and dated and distanced (terminal B).

You're absolutely right. Out of the 3 airports you mentioned LAS is the worst for just about everything. Would love to see an additional DEN.

I've been pretty adamant about wanting a second DEN flight...PHX opens up a few nice options between Mexico and the SW, but adding a second DEN will significantly improve connections from FAT to the Midwest, East, and even Southeast.

flyfresno wrote:

WN732 wrote:

whatusaid wrote:

The AS schedule to LAX isn't really timed for Asia, is it? Most of my Japan flying out of LAX has always been early afternoon. Of course, that single flight also bounces around, anywhere from 6a to noon, depending upon the whim of AS and aircraft availability and/or crew scheduling. I'd thought that AS would be able to grow LAX for the OneWorld, but there's nothing to connect to QF and if Asia isn't timed, then, LAX is nothing more than moving an aircraft into position for the AS network.

As to the future growth of LAS, with G4's March LF at 62% (T100 sourced), if they (G4) speed up their reduction in frequency, where are those O&D's pax heading? WN grew big time March over February/January to where they'll likely exceed 2021 numbers going into summer and weekends are a tough find at less than big $$$. While WN could add more frequency, Thr/Fri/Sunday G4 peak doesn't fit the WN model. And, with WN adding more gate capacity in DEN, we just may see added capacity to DEN before another build up of LAS beyond the current 3X (4X July/Aug) so, the O&D crowd be challenged to find a weekend seat and that could limit future growth for LAS. Granted, we might be we find some clarity in LAS capacity going into 2023 with the November WN schedule that's out this next week. I'll take added DEN and new PHX over another to LAS as it's not a great connecting airport. WN LAS is crowded (C is a test of endurance and bad food options) and dated and distanced (terminal B).

You're absolutely right. Out of the 3 airports you mentioned LAS is the worst for just about everything. Would love to see an additional DEN.

I've been pretty adamant about wanting a second DEN flight...PHX opens up a few nice options between Mexico and the SW, but adding a second DEN will significantly improve connections from FAT to the Midwest, East, and even Southeast.

A PHX flight would be huge. I’d be flying WN every time to Mexico then, but currently it’s not even possible to get to Mexico on a one-trip itinerary.

whatusaid wrote:

The AS schedule to LAX isn't really timed for Asia, is it? Most of my Japan flying out of LAX has always been early afternoon. Of course, that single flight also bounces around, anywhere from 6a to noon, depending upon the whim of AS and aircraft availability and/or crew scheduling. I'd thought that AS would be able to grow LAX for the OneWorld, but there's nothing to connect to QF and if Asia isn't timed, then, LAX is nothing more than moving an aircraft into position for the AS network.

I'm assuming that AS will go back to its old schedule (although I didn't say that in my post): a 6-7am and a 2-3pm departure to LAX, and a 12pm-1pm and 8-9pm departure from LAX. Although it would create some longer connections, JAL and QANTAS would both get some connecting traffic.

Hopefully FAT does finally get PHX and more frequency on Thursday from WN they said staffing would be In order by years end.

Basically, the top 10 dashboard involves available seats. Who has the highest LFs? How is AM, Volaris doing with their red eyes?

laca773 wrote:

Basically, the top 10 dashboard involves available seats. Who has the highest LFs? How is AM, Volaris doing with their red eyes?

UA and AA mainline were each 94% in March. WN 77%. AS mainline 76%. G4 62%.

Haven’t reviewed Y4 and AM, but they are very strong.