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Thomaas
Posts: 777
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:57 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
YEGFlyer wrote:
Anyone else notice that Air Canada will tend to "sit" on a route and it won't progress past once daily (unless it fits into some kind of hub policy or strategy they have)? This seems to be one of their approaches to driving yield.


As far as international flying is concerned, AC actually seems to prefer to connect another one of its hubs to a city in question over offering more than one daily flight. If we take the example of Lisbon, AC flying YYZ-LIS and then introducing YUL-LIS means that they have more direct seats to sell on the YYZ flight, capture the premium O&D on YUL-LIS that prefers a non-stop, and can offer more connections from LIS through both YUL and YYZ. We've seen this happen to cities like DUB, BOG, GRU, NRT, PVG, and TLV.

...

Agree
And they tend to stay 1x daily at most when this happens.

Long haul I'm doubtful demand exceeds 1x daily on many of these routes. But transborder or short haul I think it can, but AC won't tend to expand the route unless it is to or from a hub or part of some kind of strategy they are implementing, so it seems to me.


AC is actually starting to use more mainline aircraft on routes that would typically see express aircraft multiple times a day, such as YYZ-RDU and YUL-BOS. Will be interesting to see if the 220 experiment on those city pairs is successful in the long run.
 
krisyyz
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:53 am

EdmFlyBoi wrote:
fly2moon wrote:
EdmFlyBoi wrote:
XLR's to places like BER, WAW, ARN, OSL, ZAG, NCE, MRS, OPO, etc.


Did Airbus confirm XLR can make it fully loaded in typical AC two cabin layout westbound against stong winter jetstream from ZAG to YYZ with reserve? Would like to see the source where Airbus confirms it.

Place like WAW would have competition in the form of LOT Polish 789 with more passengers, three cabins and more cargo capacity. How does XLR stack against 789 on YYZ-WAW route, at least on paper?


YYZ-ZAG is just over 3800 nautical miles. The quoted range for the XLR with 180 to 220 passengers is 4700 nautical miles, so it is within the range, at least on paper. Winter might be an issue but ZAG is likely a summer seasonal route so that is less of a concern.

AC hasn't really flow WAW with a 787 with any degree of consistency, and it hasn't been served since prior to COVID. It was largely a Rouge route, and did go to mainline in the summer of 2018. I flew it that summer and it was a mainline 767 that was falling apart inside. I don't think that LOT flying the route with a 787 would be an issue. AC could likely make the route work in the summer with the right aircraft (ie. an XLR).


When I saw the XLR order, I was sure they're being ordered to replace the Rouge 767s. Obviously, once the configuration was announced with a full international business product, that theory went out the door. With the rumour that Rouge is going to be absorbed by the mainline in the future, the XLR config to match the mainline product makes sense.

I think the only former Rouge 767 eastern-European VFR route that survived in 2022 was YYZ-BUD, first scheduled with a A333 I believe 3x till May-September, then changed to a B789 2x, then cancelled due to the Ukraine war. ZAG is a couple hundred NM from BUD, so if the XLR can do ZAG, it should be able to do BUD. Albeit, if AC is truly in a fleet crunch next year, I doubt BUD would be a priority as AC codeshares with LH from FRA and MUC, OS from VIE and LX from ZRH to Budapest.

KrisYYZ
 
Acey
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:00 am

nname wrote:
Acey wrote:
ddp wrote:

Any word it will come back or is this route essentially dead?


Doubt it comes back next year either but it's too early to say whether or not it's permanently dead.


Currently AC "replace" the route with YYZ-NRT this winter by using the AC9/10 number.

AC is content to route Alberta traffic through YVR to NRT. To me, based on how it appears YVR-NRT is going, the YYC flight will not be be required for the foreseeable future, as it obviously takes a chunk of pax from the YVR flight.
 
SEAorPWM
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AC A320 Retirement Plan

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:52 pm

Looking at the fleet list, it looks like many of the existing AC A320's were built around 1992/93, but I have not heard anything about retirement plans for these clapped-out old ladies who aren't exactly the most fuel efficient any more.

Are the older A320's still on track to be replaced by the upcoming NEO's and MAX'S or will AC have some 40 year olds in their fleet soon (DC-9 part II)?
 
casperCA
Posts: 180
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Re: AC A320 Retirement Plan

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:58 pm

SEAorPWM wrote:
Looking at the fleet list, it looks like many of the existing AC A320's were built around 1992/93, but I have not heard anything about retirement plans for these clapped-out old ladies who aren't exactly the most fuel efficient any more.

Are the older A320's still on track to be replaced by the upcoming NEO's and MAX'S or will AC have some 40 year olds in their fleet soon (DC-9 part II)?


I think their plan is to use it a swing fleet. If the economy is good and demand is up they will keep them in service longer. If not they will retire "early". What ever "retire early" means for a 30+ year old aircraft.

They will eventually have to go. There is only one new max to come. If anything they will be replaced by C-series A220s.
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: AC A320 Retirement Plan

Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:02 pm

casperCA wrote:
SEAorPWM wrote:
Looking at the fleet list, it looks like many of the existing AC A320's were built around 1992/93, but I have not heard anything about retirement plans for these clapped-out old ladies who aren't exactly the most fuel efficient any more.

Are the older A320's still on track to be replaced by the upcoming NEO's and MAX'S or will AC have some 40 year olds in their fleet soon (DC-9 part II)?


I think their plan is to use it a swing fleet. If the economy is good and demand is up they will keep them in service longer. If not they will retire "early". What ever "retire early" means for a 30+ year old aircraft.

They will eventually have to go. There is only one new max to come. If anything they will be replaced by C-series A220s.


One reason I'm asking is that DL already has enough current-gen NB's on order to replace their old-gen NB swing fleet (A320's and 752's), so I'm confused why AC has so few NB's on order to cover the A320's and Embraers that left last year.
 
Steelhead
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Re: AC A320 Retirement Plan

Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:08 pm

The oldest active AC A-320 is C-GPWG (c/n 174 - built in 1991) There are 4 aircraft re-painted into the latest AC c/s. C-FKOJ and C-FKPT received their new colours only a few months ago - these might stay for a while.
 
casperCA
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Re: AC A320 Retirement Plan

Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:19 pm

SEAorPWM wrote:
casperCA wrote:
SEAorPWM wrote:
Looking at the fleet list, it looks like many of the existing AC A320's were built around 1992/93, but I have not heard anything about retirement plans for these clapped-out old ladies who aren't exactly the most fuel efficient any more.

Are the older A320's still on track to be replaced by the upcoming NEO's and MAX'S or will AC have some 40 year olds in their fleet soon (DC-9 part II)?


I think their plan is to use it a swing fleet. If the economy is good and demand is up they will keep them in service longer. If not they will retire "early". What ever "retire early" means for a 30+ year old aircraft.

They will eventually have to go. There is only one new max to come. If anything they will be replaced by C-series A220s.


One reason I'm asking is that DL already has enough current-gen NB's on order to replace their old-gen NB swing fleet (A320's and 752's), so I'm confused why AC has so few NB's on order to cover the A320's and Embraers that left last year.


AC is hedging its bet on the economy. They are willing to shrink their domestic fleet if we go into a recession.

AC will also regularly run widebody aircraft on domestic routes more so than say Delta. As an example YVR-YOW can just as easily be a widebody as a MAX or A320.
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: AC A320 Retirement Plan

Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:51 pm

SEAorPWM wrote:
One reason I'm asking is that DL already has enough current-gen NB's on order to replace their old-gen NB swing fleet (A320's and 752's), so I'm confused why AC has so few NB's on order to cover the A320's and Embraers that left last year.


As of their latest MD&A, they plan on keeping the A320s in the fleet until at least December 31, 2023.

AC still has 30 purchase options for 223s and an additional 10 purchase options for 7M8s. It wouldn't surprise me to see incremental conversions of the 223 purchase rights into orders as it becomes more clear how/when a recession might impact their short haul markets.

On top of that, there's also a fair amount of domestic competition ramping up in the near term. WS consolidating operations in the West, PD receiving their E195-E2s shortly, F8 receiving another 12 7M8s, Y9 flying 7M8s, and AU (Jetlines) looking to start up. So AC may be waiting so to not oversupply the market with additional short haul capacity.
 
EdmFlyBoi
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Re: AC A320 Retirement Plan

Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:21 pm

The 8 A320's that are relatively young (20 years) are rumoured to be getting an interior refurbishment along with the A321's. It is very likely that those 8 will stick around for a while unless travel really drops off. The really old A320's with cycle out at some point - they were parked during COVID which has likely allowed for a bit of a life extension in terms of cycles.

It is going to be a few years before the final A220 arrives. Keep in mind that AC just ordered 30 XLR's which can run a lot of transcon routes such as YVR-YOW and YEG-YYZ/YUL. AC has been ordering incrementally as of late - 3 789's and the additions to the cargo fleet. Also wouldn't be surprised if there are further A220 orders as it has been a great addition to the fleet based on what is discussed online. Not sure about the Max...
 
Eso91
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:07 am

Has AC phased out their snack service in domestic economy? It was noticeably absent on all 4 of the flights I had with them last month, even the longer YYC-YUL and YYZ-YYZ runs, which was honestly a little embarrassing for these fairly long flights. Is this coming back at some point or is it done for good now?
 
777luver
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:16 am

Eso91 wrote:
Has AC phased out their snack service in domestic economy? It was noticeably absent on all 4 of the flights I had with them last month, even the longer YYC-YUL and YYZ-YYZ runs, which was honestly a little embarrassing for these fairly long flights. Is this coming back at some point or is it done for good now?


It’s not gone. Maybe the catering company screwed up and/or the crew were about to run out of time so instead of catering SOC decided to make the flight go, something like that
 
Eso91
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon Aug 08, 2022 12:27 am

777luver wrote:
Eso91 wrote:
Has AC phased out their snack service in domestic economy? It was noticeably absent on all 4 of the flights I had with them last month, even the longer YYC-YUL and YYZ-YYZ runs, which was honestly a little embarrassing for these fairly long flights. Is this coming back at some point or is it done for good now?


It’s not gone. Maybe the catering company screwed up and/or the crew were about to run out of time so instead of catering SOC decided to make the flight go, something like that

That's good to hear! Guess I just got unlucky with delays and everything during their July meltdown.
 
nname
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:17 am

Acey wrote:
nname wrote:
Acey wrote:

Doubt it comes back next year either but it's too early to say whether or not it's permanently dead.


Currently AC "replace" the route with YYZ-NRT this winter by using the AC9/10 number.

AC is content to route Alberta traffic through YVR to NRT. To me, based on how it appears YVR-NRT is going, the YYC flight will not be be required for the foreseeable future, as it obviously takes a chunk of pax from the YVR flight.


Yes, AC is trying to route Alberta traffic through YVR or YUL, and WS is trying to route BC traffic through YYC. Not only for NRT, but for pretty much every route they operates. By the look of it, AC will likely keep cutting international and transborder services out of YYC while WS will continue to cut service from YVR for the foreseeable future.
 
Acey
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:14 am

nname wrote:
By the look of it, AC will likely keep cutting international and transborder services out of YYC


On the other hand, AC will operate 2x daily 7M8 on YYC-LAX this winter which is the most seats in the last decade. YYC-PHX and YYC-LAS also to be operated by 7M8 after intermittent Rouge and Jazz operation in recent years. YYC-IAH will run 2x daily when pre-pandemic winter operation was either 1x daily or zero. We're not dead just yet.
 
Thomaas
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:38 am

AC is launching YUL-CPH 5x weekly starting June 23rd on the 788. Curious if we’ll see old Rouge routes like WAW, BER, BUD, OTP and GLA come back for next summer.
 
1050flyer
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:14 am

Thomaas wrote:
AC is launching YUL-CPH 5x weekly starting June 23rd on the 788. Curious if we’ll see old Rouge routes like WAW, BER, BUD, OTP and GLA come back for next summer.


Would be great to see the Rouge routes return. However, does AC have the aircraft at mainline to be able to reopen all of the ex-rouge routes? It seems as though their WB fleet is stretched quite thin at the moment, let alone after opening/restarting more routes next summer?
 
1050flyer
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:20 am

Noticed that AC has cut back a lot on sun destination flying this summer. They have completely cut entire destinations such as GND, ANU, SVD, UVF, etc. leaving WS as the sole carrier on some of the routes such as YYZ-UVF and YYZ-ANU. Is there not enough demand to these destinations to allow for at least 1 weekly flight during the summer? WS seems to make it work for some routes and AC used to prior to the pandemic.
 
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Hockeyfan125
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:56 am

Acey wrote:
nname wrote:
By the look of it, AC will likely keep cutting international and transborder services out of YYC


On the other hand, AC will operate 2x daily 7M8 on YYC-LAX this winter which is the most seats in the last decade. YYC-PHX and YYC-LAS also to be operated by 7M8 after intermittent Rouge and Jazz operation in recent years. YYC-IAH will run 2x daily when pre-pandemic winter operation was either 1x daily or zero. We're not dead just yet.



Yep & Air Canada’s Calgary YYC - US flights schedule this upcoming winter currently look like this & *it’s subject to possible changes still*.

Los Angeles (LAX) 2x daily 7M8
San Francisco (SFO) 2x daily CR9
Houston (IAH) 2x daily CR9
Las Vegas (LAS) 1x daily 7M8
Phoenix (PHX) 1x daily 7M8
Newark (EWR) 1x daily 7M8
Honolulu (HNL) Up to 3x weekly 7M8 (From Dec. 4)
Kahului (OGG) Up to 4x weekly 7M8 (From Dec. 3)

_________________________________________________

While AC International flights schedules this winter look like this.
Frankfurt (FRA) 1x daily 789
London (LHR) 1x daily 789
Cancun (CUN) 4x weekly 7M8
Puerto Vallarta (PVR) 3x weekly 7M8
Los Cabos (SJD) 3x weekly 7M8

And it’s not too bad for AC considering their competing with WestJet at YYC,which has a majority of US/International flights routes both year round/ seasonally.

Plus AC has more Europe flight frequencies for the winter from YYC still compared to WS 1x daily to London LHR.
 
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Hockeyfan125
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:35 am

Acey wrote:
nname wrote:
Acey wrote:

Doubt it comes back next year either but it's too early to say whether or not it's permanently dead.


Currently AC "replace" the route with YYZ-NRT this winter by using the AC9/10 number.

AC is content to route Alberta traffic through YVR to NRT. To me, based on how it appears YVR-NRT is going, the YYC flight will not be be required for the foreseeable future, as it obviously takes a chunk of pax from the YVR flight.


Yep & Calgary YYC likely won’t have any Asia flights again until WestJet decides to start (summer seasonal) flights to either Japan or South Korea.

Until then most Alberta passenger traffic to Asia are through Vancouver YVR, Toronto YYZ & Montreal YUL
 
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matt
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:44 am

Thomaas wrote:
AC is launching YUL-CPH 5x weekly starting June 23rd on the 788. Curious if we’ll see old Rouge routes like WAW, BER, BUD, OTP and GLA come back for next summer.


Thank you for this information. It will be flight AC826 (YUL-CPH).

I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:14 pm

Hockeyfan125 wrote:
Calgary YYC likely won’t have any Asia flights again until WestJet decides to start (summer seasonal) flights to either Japan or South Korea.

I’ve been following the passenger makeup of AC 3/4 lately, YVR-NRT-YVR. While the flight generally leaves with a 90-95% load, it seems only about 40 passengers or so connect from YYC. (And maybe about a dozen from YEG).

It appears the Alberta demand for Asia has not recovered to a point where a nonstop flight can be justified. I’m sure AC is aware of this and will schedule a nonstop when traffic warrants it.

I’d imagine Westjet is in no hurry to jump back into uncharted territory …. still stinging from the last five years. They’d be better off sticking to their success stories. I understand YYC-FCO was very successful for them. I’m surprised they didn’t try YYZ-FCO. A solid performer for AC and with Alitalia no longer there, begging for competition.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:35 pm

^ TS is on YYZ-FCO as well, so there is competition, at least in the summer season.
 
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CrewBunk
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:08 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
^ TS is on YYZ-FCO as well, so there is competition.


That’s correct. It’s why I said it’s “begging for competition” not that there is no competition.

Transat flies a few times a week, seasonally. It’s a far cry from when CP (then AC) flew daily, often twice daily on the route, as did Alitalia. Canadian charter companies (TS included) also flew the route. It’s a busy market.
With staff already in place at FCO for the successful YYC flight and with more 787s arriving, I would have thought it a prime route for WS. In spite of what some think, WS does have a good reputation in YYZ.

A friend of mine is a sales supervisor for TP in Canada. He claims a large portion of their YYZ-LIS flight is connecting to FCO, using competitive fares and connection times.

Of course, this is all conjecture. And likely, there’s a reason I only fly airplanes and am not a network planner. ;)
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:34 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
^ TS is on YYZ-FCO as well, so there is competition.


Transat flies a few times a week, seasonally. It’s a far cry from when CP (then AC) flew daily, often twice daily on the route, as did Alitalia.


TS is currently 5x weekly A330 on YYZ-FCO. It’s not negligible.

WS would be the third carrier on the route (4th when AZ was on the route as well), with an aircraft that has less seats than both AC and TS. So they would be at a disadvantage, on a CASM basis. Better to stick to more premium markets or routes with less competition.
 
YYZORD
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:57 pm

I wonder if AC would ever launch YUL-ZRH? I'm sure it could compliment LX's current flight on that route.
 
alexdelzotto
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:28 pm

matt wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
AC is launching YUL-CPH 5x weekly starting June 23rd on the 788. Curious if we’ll see old Rouge routes like WAW, BER, BUD, OTP and GLA come back for next summer.


Thank you for this information. It will be flight AC826 (YUL-CPH).

I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


AC834/835 will be going to YYZ-BRU.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:40 pm

YYZORD wrote:
I wonder if AC would ever launch YUL-ZRH? I'm sure it could compliment LX's current flight on that route.

It’s all part of the Star TATL JV. AC would only launch the route if it was decided another flight was needed or AC was more suitable to serve the market.
 
9252fly
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:56 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
^ TS is on YYZ-FCO as well, so there is competition.


That’s correct. It’s why I said it’s “begging for competition” not that there is no competition.

Transat flies a few times a week, seasonally. It’s a far cry from when CP (then AC) flew daily, often twice daily on the route, as did Alitalia. Canadian charter companies (TS included) also flew the route. It’s a busy market.
With staff already in place at FCO for the successful YYC flight and with more 787s arriving, I would have thought it a prime route for WS. In spite of what some think, WS does have a good reputation in YYZ.

A friend of mine is a sales supervisor for TP in Canada. He claims a large portion of their YYZ-LIS flight is connecting to FCO, using competitive fares and connection times.

Of course, this is all conjecture. And likely, there’s a reason I only fly airplanes and am not a network planner. ;)


I was under the impression WS cancelled the remaining order for the last 3 B789s? The firm number is currently 7 to the best of my knowledge.
 
Thomaas
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:09 pm

Polot wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
I wonder if AC would ever launch YUL-ZRH? I'm sure it could compliment LX's current flight on that route.

It’s all part of the Star TATL JV. AC would only launch the route if it was decided another flight was needed or AC was more suitable to serve the market.


Maybe we’ll even see AC launch YUL-BSL on the 321XLRs to compete with the long-established Air Transat flight. They should be able to fill 16 J seats a few times a week, especially with the Miles & More flyers in the area.
 
yzfElite
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:15 pm

Eso91 wrote:
Has AC phased out their snack service in domestic economy? It was noticeably absent on all 4 of the flights I had with them last month, even the longer YYC-YUL and YYZ-YYZ runs, which was honestly a little embarrassing for these fairly long flights. Is this coming back at some point or is it done for good now?


What snack service? Do you mean buy on board? If so then that's the norm I've had on all recent transcon flights. If you mean the free pretzels or equivalent, then they're usually just on short flights where buy on board isn't catered (e.g. YUL-YOW/YOW-YYZ, etc.)..
 
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Polot
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:24 pm

9252fly wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
^ TS is on YYZ-FCO as well, so there is competition.


That’s correct. It’s why I said it’s “begging for competition” not that there is no competition.

Transat flies a few times a week, seasonally. It’s a far cry from when CP (then AC) flew daily, often twice daily on the route, as did Alitalia. Canadian charter companies (TS included) also flew the route. It’s a busy market.
With staff already in place at FCO for the successful YYC flight and with more 787s arriving, I would have thought it a prime route for WS. In spite of what some think, WS does have a good reputation in YYZ.

A friend of mine is a sales supervisor for TP in Canada. He claims a large portion of their YYZ-LIS flight is connecting to FCO, using competitive fares and connection times.

Of course, this is all conjecture. And likely, there’s a reason I only fly airplanes and am not a network planner. ;)


I was under the impression WS cancelled the remaining order for the last 3 B789s? The firm number is currently 7 to the best of my knowledge.

Yes. There is still one left for delivery, WS currently has 6.
 
fraT
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Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:30 pm

Thomaas wrote:
Polot wrote:
YYZORD wrote:
I wonder if AC would ever launch YUL-ZRH? I'm sure it could compliment LX's current flight on that route.

It’s all part of the Star TATL JV. AC would only launch the route if it was decided another flight was needed or AC was more suitable to serve the market.


Maybe we’ll even see AC launch YUL-BSL on the 321XLRs to compete with the long-established Air Transat flight. They should be able to fill 16 J seats a few times a week, especially with the Miles & More flyers in the area.


I doubt it. BSL is so close to ZRH and AC can use all of LX's infrastructure there.
Yes, there is some potential high yield corporates/customers there, but I don't think that they would jump on a TS flight.
 
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matt
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:18 pm

alexdelzotto wrote:
matt wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
AC is launching YUL-CPH 5x weekly starting June 23rd on the 788. Curious if we’ll see old Rouge routes like WAW, BER, BUD, OTP and GLA come back for next summer.


Thank you for this information. It will be flight AC826 (YUL-CPH).

I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


AC834/835 will be going to YYZ-BRU.


Thanks! How could I have missed that! ;-)

(UPDATED) New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-BRU will be AC834 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5215
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:22 pm

Polot wrote:
9252fly wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:

That’s correct. It’s why I said it’s “begging for competition” not that there is no competition.

Transat flies a few times a week, seasonally. It’s a far cry from when CP (then AC) flew daily, often twice daily on the route, as did Alitalia. Canadian charter companies (TS included) also flew the route. It’s a busy market.
With staff already in place at FCO for the successful YYC flight and with more 787s arriving, I would have thought it a prime route for WS. In spite of what some think, WS does have a good reputation in YYZ.

A friend of mine is a sales supervisor for TP in Canada. He claims a large portion of their YYZ-LIS flight is connecting to FCO, using competitive fares and connection times.

Of course, this is all conjecture. And likely, there’s a reason I only fly airplanes and am not a network planner. ;)


I was under the impression WS cancelled the remaining order for the last 3 B789s? The firm number is currently 7 to the best of my knowledge.

Yes. There is still one left for delivery, WS currently has 6.

So the three already completed and painted B787s are not being taken up?
 
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Polot
Posts: 13640
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:29 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Polot wrote:
9252fly wrote:

I was under the impression WS cancelled the remaining order for the last 3 B789s? The firm number is currently 7 to the best of my knowledge.

Yes. There is still one left for delivery, WS currently has 6.

So the three already completed and painted B787s are not being taken up?

According to a poster in another thread yes those are the three and WS is taking the unbuilt one.
 
crosscheckyyz
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:50 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:38 pm

Agree that BSL would not be flown by AC on the 321. You've got to remember that Swiss Federal Railways is a non-airline partner of *A now. So seamless connecting opportunities from BSL to ZRH and onward globally can happen.

fraT wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
Polot wrote:
It’s all part of the Star TATL JV. AC would only launch the route if it was decided another flight was needed or AC was more suitable to serve the market.


Maybe we’ll even see AC launch YUL-BSL on the 321XLRs to compete with the long-established Air Transat flight. They should be able to fill 16 J seats a few times a week, especially with the Miles & More flyers in the area.


I doubt it. BSL is so close to ZRH and AC can use all of LX's infrastructure there.
Yes, there is some potential high yield corporates/customers there, but I don't think that they would jump on a TS flight.
 
EdmFlyBoi
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:14 am

matt wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
AC is launching YUL-CPH 5x weekly starting June 23rd on the 788. Curious if we’ll see old Rouge routes like WAW, BER, BUD, OTP and GLA come back for next summer.


Thank you for this information. It will be flight AC826 (YUL-CPH).

I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


Where is the S23 schedule posted?
 
1050flyer
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 12:26 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:15 am

Does AC have the wide bodies available should they want to launch any new long haul routes for S23? Or would they have to wait for the XLR's and additional 789's to be delivered?
 
polaris
Posts: 1158
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 7:03 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:38 am

matt wrote:


I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


Perhaps flight numbers in the range between 900 and 925 are being re-assigned to summer seasonal European routes.
 
User avatar
matt
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:58 am

EdmFlyBoi wrote:
matt wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
AC is launching YUL-CPH 5x weekly starting June 23rd on the 788. Curious if we’ll see old Rouge routes like WAW, BER, BUD, OTP and GLA come back for next summer.


Thank you for this information. It will be flight AC826 (YUL-CPH).

I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


Where is the S23 schedule posted?


It's not really posted anywhere; it's just what I've found online (Aeroroutes, e. g.) or in the online schedule.
 
User avatar
matt
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:59 am

polaris wrote:
matt wrote:


I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


Perhaps flight numbers in the range between 900 and 925 are being re-assigned to summer seasonal European routes.


Perhaps. This would make sense. Currently, the are using the 1000 range (to KEF, for example).
 
EdmFlyBoi
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:11 pm

1050flyer wrote:
Does AC have the wide bodies available should they want to launch any new long haul routes for S23? Or would they have to wait for the XLR's and additional 789's to be delivered?


This is a really good question. There will be 2 789's coming in 2023 but they may be later in the year (unless they are taking white tails). It seems unlikely that Asia travel (especially China) returns to pre-COVID levels by next summer so the bulk of the wide body fleet will be to Europe. AC certainly needs more lift to expand the network - the XLR's will help but they are spread over 4 years. The other issue is the ongoing problems at Pearson and Trudeau. One would hope they are solved by next summer but both terminals are at capacity when the evening Europe flight banks leave. AC is probably hedging with more flights from Trudeau - hence the launch of YUL-CPH. As previously mentioned, the dual hub approach allows then to send connecting travel through Trudeau rather than Pearson.
 
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Exrampieyyz
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:43 pm

matt wrote:
EdmFlyBoi wrote:
matt wrote:

Thank you for this information. It will be flight AC826 (YUL-CPH).

I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


Where is the S23 schedule posted?


It's not really posted anywhere; it's just what I've found online (Aeroroutes, e. g.) or in the online schedule.

I worked for AC for 35 years and I've noticed how just about all the flight numbers have been getting changed around.
Looking at flight radar I used to be able to tell just by flight number where it came from, where it was going and approx time. Eg. 872 was always the first YYZ-FRA. 880 CDG.
Anyone have an idea why the major changes?
I guess it really doesn't matter, but it is annoying. Somebody get a new job and just making their mark?
 
User avatar
Exrampieyyz
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 12:45 pm

matt wrote:
EdmFlyBoi wrote:
matt wrote:

Thank you for this information. It will be flight AC826 (YUL-CPH).

I've noticed that AC has changed some of the flight numbers for S23.

New flight numbers for S23 (Summer 23) compared to S22

YYZ-MAN will be AC908 (is now AC808)
YYZ-AMS will be AC808 (is now AC826)
YUL-CPH will be AC826 (new flight)
YYZ-MUC will be AC836 (is now AC834)

I find it odd that the MAN flight number is in the 900 series... Any more to come?

Matt


Where is the S23 schedule posted?


It's not really posted anywhere; it's just what I've found online (Aeroroutes, e. g.) or in the online schedule.

I worked for AC for 35 years and I've noticed how just about all the flight numbers have been getting changed around.
Looking at flight radar I used to be able to tell just by flight number where it came from, where it was going and approx time. Eg. 872 was always the first YYZ-FRA. 880 CDG.
Anyone have an idea why the major changes?
I guess it really doesn't matter, but it is annoying. Somebody get a new job and just making their mark?
 
flyyul
Posts: 4490
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:00 pm

Exrampieyyz wrote:
matt wrote:
EdmFlyBoi wrote:

Where is the S23 schedule posted?


It's not really posted anywhere; it's just what I've found online (Aeroroutes, e. g.) or in the online schedule.

I worked for AC for 35 years and I've noticed how just about all the flight numbers have been getting changed around.
Looking at flight radar I used to be able to tell just by flight number where it came from, where it was going and approx time. Eg. 872 was always the first YYZ-FRA. 880 CDG.
Anyone have an idea why the major changes?
I guess it really doesn't matter, but it is annoying. Somebody get a new job and just making their mark?


Flight numbers moving around as Air Canada's widebody fleet has tripled/quadrupled since you started 35 years ago. Not enough flight numbers in the 800s series - and its an opportunity to ensure that there's logic and proper sequencing. (YYZ-LHR now has 4 sequential flight numbers 852/854/856/858).
 
Eso91
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:19 pm

yzfElite wrote:
Eso91 wrote:
Has AC phased out their snack service in domestic economy? It was noticeably absent on all 4 of the flights I had with them last month, even the longer YYC-YUL and YYZ-YYZ runs, which was honestly a little embarrassing for these fairly long flights. Is this coming back at some point or is it done for good now?


What snack service? Do you mean buy on board? If so then that's the norm I've had on all recent transcon flights. If you mean the free pretzels or equivalent, then they're usually just on short flights where buy on board isn't catered (e.g. YUL-YOW/YOW-YYZ, etc.)..

If that's the norm, I have to go back to it being embarrassing for a full-service flag carrier to have no complimentary snack service of any kind on a 5-hour flight between two of their hubs.
 
casperCA
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:51 pm

Eso91 wrote:
yzfElite wrote:
Eso91 wrote:
Has AC phased out their snack service in domestic economy? It was noticeably absent on all 4 of the flights I had with them last month, even the longer YYC-YUL and YYZ-YYZ runs, which was honestly a little embarrassing for these fairly long flights. Is this coming back at some point or is it done for good now?


What snack service? Do you mean buy on board? If so then that's the norm I've had on all recent transcon flights. If you mean the free pretzels or equivalent, then they're usually just on short flights where buy on board isn't catered (e.g. YUL-YOW/YOW-YYZ, etc.)..

If that's the norm, I have to go back to it being embarrassing for a full-service flag carrier to have no complimentary snack service of any kind on a 5-hour flight between two of their hubs.


It was like that before COVID. Yes it is embarrassing. Their main competitor, WestJet, offers a choice of complimentary cookies or a salty snack when doing the drink service.
 
nname
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:55 pm

flyyul wrote:
Exrampieyyz wrote:
matt wrote:

It's not really posted anywhere; it's just what I've found online (Aeroroutes, e. g.) or in the online schedule.

I worked for AC for 35 years and I've noticed how just about all the flight numbers have been getting changed around.
Looking at flight radar I used to be able to tell just by flight number where it came from, where it was going and approx time. Eg. 872 was always the first YYZ-FRA. 880 CDG.
Anyone have an idea why the major changes?
I guess it really doesn't matter, but it is annoying. Somebody get a new job and just making their mark?


Flight numbers moving around as Air Canada's widebody fleet has tripled/quadrupled since you started 35 years ago. Not enough flight numbers in the 800s series - and its an opportunity to ensure that there's logic and proper sequencing. (YYZ-LHR now has 4 sequential flight numbers 852/854/856/858).


When the XLR comes, they got to find a lot of new numbers for the European flights too.

Also, the Asia, Africa, and South America routes are starting to run out of numbers too... so likely there will be more moving around those pretty soon.
 
EdmFlyBoi
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Air Canada News And Discussion Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:53 pm

Eso91 wrote:
yzfElite wrote:
Eso91 wrote:
Has AC phased out their snack service in domestic economy? It was noticeably absent on all 4 of the flights I had with them last month, even the longer YYC-YUL and YYZ-YYZ runs, which was honestly a little embarrassing for these fairly long flights. Is this coming back at some point or is it done for good now?


What snack service? Do you mean buy on board? If so then that's the norm I've had on all recent transcon flights. If you mean the free pretzels or equivalent, then they're usually just on short flights where buy on board isn't catered (e.g. YUL-YOW/YOW-YYZ, etc.)..

If that's the norm, I have to go back to it being embarrassing for a full-service flag carrier to have no complimentary snack service of any kind on a 5-hour flight between two of their hubs.


Can someone explain to me how a very small snack of cookies or nuts makes any difference on a flight of 5 hours or less. I have never understood this.

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