Skywatcher wrote:

I was reviewing the July AC schedule for YUL (I'm trying to figure out where to go). I was surprised to see that one of the three daily YUL-LAX rotations is on a widebody (A-333). I've never seen that before.
I was also surprised to see a 777 on one of the YVR-YUL dailies. There's also an A-321 on one of the YUL-YQM (Moncton) flights-that also has to be a first.
I hope covid co-operates this summer because there is an awful lot of new capacity being deployed at YUL.

It's all about aircraft rotation and utilisation. There are going to be 16 A330's positioned in Montreal and that is largely where the pilot pool is. As the A330's come back from Europe, there are opportunities for transcon flights, hence YUL-LAX. The 77W is likely the YUL-CDG flight as AC usually runs a low J 77W on that flight. It then does a transcon rotation for utilisation.

Acey wrote:

Airlinerdude wrote:

Acey wrote:

Also of note is that YYC-IAH now appears to be completely scrubbed, they're just gonna rock with the double daily United mainline and call it a day. WS will run 11x weekly YYC-IAH from July.

I flew the AC CR7 (I think it was a 7 IIRC) one time on YYC IAH. never ever again. packed to the gills and no room for any carryons. not a pleasant experience for about 4 hours. WS and UA should suffice for the oil traffic.

Is there enough 772 in the fleet for AC to do YVR-SYD and YYZ-DEL? Or is AC playing it month by month due to the ongoing airspace restrictions over Russia? I'd just be cautious booking it if you're booking for the aircraft at least for the moment. For what I recall AC was still flying the 789 DEL-DUB-YYZ//YUL and YVR-DUB-DEL-YVR not sure how long this will last.

yyztpa2 wrote:

QB737 wrote:

SaschaYHZ wrote:

Out of curiosity, is it still going to be YYZ-YVR-YYZ-return?

Nothing as been scheduled yet on their website or in GDS. So I'm assuming the answer is no.

Actually you can book on the website for June 5th and this option is available for booking:
18:00 Toronto (YYZ) to 19:56 Vancouver (YVR) – 4hr56m4 hours 56 minutes
Operated by Air Canada AC 123 Operated by Air Canada
Wi-Fi
Boeing 777-200LR aircraft
Aircraft Type:Boeing 777-200LR
+ 2hr29m 2 hours 29 minuteslayover
22:25 Vancouver (YVR) to 06:55 Sydney (SYD) – 15hr30m15 hours 30 minutes
Operated by Air Canada AC 033 Operated by Air Canada
Wi-Fi
Boeing 777-200LR aircraft
Aircraft Type:Boeing 777-200LR

crosscheckyyz wrote:

Is there enough 772 in the fleet for AC to do YVR-SYD and YYZ-DEL? Or is AC playing it month by month due to the ongoing airspace restrictions over Russia? I'd just be cautious booking it if you're booking for the aircraft at least for the moment. For what I recall AC was still flying the 789 DEL-DUB-YYZ//YUL and YVR-DUB-DEL-YVR not sure how long this will last.

yyztpa2 wrote:

QB737 wrote:

Nothing as been scheduled yet on their website or in GDS. So I'm assuming the answer is no.

Actually you can book on the website for June 5th and this option is available for booking:
18:00 Toronto (YYZ) to 19:56 Vancouver (YVR) – 4hr56m4 hours 56 minutes
Operated by Air Canada AC 123 Operated by Air Canada
Wi-Fi
Boeing 777-200LR aircraft
Aircraft Type:Boeing 777-200LR
+ 2hr29m 2 hours 29 minuteslayover
22:25 Vancouver (YVR) to 06:55 Sydney (SYD) – 15hr30m15 hours 30 minutes
Operated by Air Canada AC 033 Operated by Air Canada
Wi-Fi
Boeing 777-200LR aircraft
Aircraft Type:Boeing 777-200LR

YVR-SYD is on a 787-9 until May 8th, so the 77L are only needed on the YYZ-DEL route. With more units being reactivated they should have enough to run both routes daily (~2 frames each). Pre-pandemic YYZ-HKG and YVR-SYD were the two consistent 77L routes, so DEL is just replacing HKG for the time being

So for May YUL/YYZ-DEL and YVR-SYD are on 77L, so should airspace restrictions not go away these aircraft are going to be all over the place.

I've noticed some equipment changes for the peak summer season (July-August) with regards to the 77L. I see that some routes that were supposed to be operated with the 77L in July and August have now been changed : AC842 (YYZ-FRA) change to 789 / AC848 (YYC-FRA) change to 789 / AC800 (YYZ-DUB) change to 77W / AC033 (YVR-SYD) change to 789.

The 77L will most likely be needed for DEL. Makes sense.

YYZ77L wrote:

crosscheckyyz wrote:

Is there enough 772 in the fleet for AC to do YVR-SYD and YYZ-DEL? Or is AC playing it month by month due to the ongoing airspace restrictions over Russia? I'd just be cautious booking it if you're booking for the aircraft at least for the moment. For what I recall AC was still flying the 789 DEL-DUB-YYZ//YUL and YVR-DUB-DEL-YVR not sure how long this will last.

yyztpa2 wrote:

Actually you can book on the website for June 5th and this option is available for booking:
18:00 Toronto (YYZ) to 19:56 Vancouver (YVR) – 4hr56m4 hours 56 minutes
Operated by Air Canada AC 123 Operated by Air Canada
Wi-Fi
Boeing 777-200LR aircraft
Aircraft Type:Boeing 777-200LR
+ 2hr29m 2 hours 29 minuteslayover
22:25 Vancouver (YVR) to 06:55 Sydney (SYD) – 15hr30m15 hours 30 minutes
Operated by Air Canada AC 033 Operated by Air Canada
Wi-Fi
Boeing 777-200LR aircraft
Aircraft Type:Boeing 777-200LR

YVR-SYD is on a 787-9 until May 8th, so the 77L are only needed on the YYZ-DEL route. With more units being reactivated they should have enough to run both routes daily (~2 frames each). Pre-pandemic YYZ-HKG and YVR-SYD were the two consistent 77L routes, so DEL is just replacing HKG for the time being

There are 5 77Ls back in service, with C-FNNH still at VCV but coming back soon. Two frames for YYZ-HKG/DEL and YVR-SYD is a bit tight if one of the 77Ls goes mech, but there are enough 77W/789s to sub in if need be. My understanding, could be working of course, is that the 789 can do all of the ULH flying for AC, where the 77L shines is a full belly of cargo on ULH routes.

As noted here before. AC as amazing fleet versatility it could deploy 4 different types on its transatlantic routes. Look at YYZ-FRA, which was AC872/876 for decades, now AC840/842, usually a 77W due to cargo and pax loads feeding LH’s HUB, every long haul type could do that route, and now with the 767 cargo ops, little issue moving types around on cargo heavy routes.

Does anyone know the fleet utilization per type? That would be interesting data, but I would imagine not public.

FRA is where I fell in love with aviation, I’ll never forget getting of a bus at FRA from my Malev TU-154 and seeing a line up of AC B744, A330s and 767s at B pier in the early 90s, it was an amazing sight, and a reassuring feeling that I was heading home.



KrisYYZ

I flew Tunis-FRA-YUL on LH back in the early nineties. I had a multi-hours stopover at FRA and visited the observation deck. It was heaven for an aviation geek like me. There were German spotters with advanced photographic equipment all over the place. There were exotic tails from all over the world like I'd never seen before. I'm ashamed to admit that I felt so happy/comfortable that I missed my onward flight home and had to re-book for the following day. FRA is a mecca for people like us.

Effective 01APR22, AC increases EZE to 4x week, via GRU. Flight is now operated from YYZ; connections to YUL are still available nonstop from GRU 3x w. Operates with 787-9.

Air Canada to increase flights to SYD from 6 June though to 5 September, going from daily to 10 weekly

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -each-week

I guess this is in retaliation to DL bumping up the flights? Goodness knows the flights are packed to the gills. I just wish they would open up MEL.

With the ongoing situation with QR and Airbus what are the chances of AC getting those QR 321s? I mean I'm almost certain that they will resolve the situation, but in the chance that its not?

qf789 wrote:

Air Canada to increase flights to SYD from 6 June though to 5 September, going from daily to 10 weekly

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -each-week

AC037 (YVR-SYD) will be operated on days 246 (2200-0630+2) (789)
AC038 (SYD-YVR) will be operated on days 146 (1340-1120) (789)

And AC033/AC034 will also, as stated previously, be operated with 789 equipment.

crosscheckyyz wrote:

With the ongoing situation with QR and Airbus what are the chances of AC getting those QR 321s? I mean I'm almost certain that they will resolve the situation, but in the chance that its not?

Most of the AC 321XLRs are coming from lessors. So who knows. Lessors are known to change slots depending on their client's needs.

Once all the B77Ls are back in the fleet completely, I do see MEL being launched especially with BNE and AKL coming online...

MoreMiles wrote:

crosscheckyyz wrote:

With the ongoing situation with QR and Airbus what are the chances of AC getting those QR 321s? I mean I'm almost certain that they will resolve the situation, but in the chance that its not?

Most of the AC 321XLRs are coming from lessors. So who knows. Lessors are known to change slots depending on their client's needs.

Once all the B77Ls are back in the fleet completely, I do see MEL being launched especially with BNE and AKL coming online...

AC needs more lift. The reason the South Pacific routes are not running daily is aircraft. The 77L's are being used to India because of the airspace issue (Russia/Ukraine) and AC needs the 77L's legs. The XLR's will solve some if this issue, but they aren't coming until 2024. There are 3 more 789's coming online over the next 2 years, but beyond that, the wide bodies are starting to get stretched. Forward bookings to Europe have apparently been strong, as have the South Pacific routes (hence the double daily YVR-SYD on some days). Should Asia start to open back up, it would not be surprising to see AC exercise more 787 options (if the 787 deliveries ever start up again) or add further used A330ceo's.

crosscheckyyz wrote:

So for May YUL/YYZ-DEL and YVR-SYD are on 77L, so should airspace restrictions not go away these aircraft are going to be all over the place.

The airspace restrictions aren't going away anytime soon. Some of those 77Ls are probably going to be operating DEL flights for the foreseeable future.

Based on AC's investor day 2022 presentation, they are interested in secondary Indian markets as well, namely YYZ-BLR. That would need the legs of a 77L as well with the current Russian airspace closure for AC.

MoreMiles wrote:

Once all the B77Ls are back in the fleet completely, I do see MEL being launched especially with BNE and AKL coming online...

Pre-pandemic, AC had noted for several years that there was a lot of capacity on North America-Australia, putting downward pressure on yields.

Right now, due to there being very few Asian flights out of YVR, this makes routes to SE Asia/Australia very profitable at the moment. Not many cheap 1-stop connecting options available from YVR to SIN or Australia. This is why SQ launched non stop to YVR, and it's also why AC is interested in YVR-SIN all of a sudden, according to their 2022 investor day presentation. The same presentation from 2019 didn't have YVR-SIN.

Once Asia - and more specifically China - fully opens up, you're going to see downward yield pressure on the non stops to SE Asia once again. As American/Australian carriers return to their pre-pandemic US-Australia schedules, that will drive down yields between Canada and Australia as well. It will be interesting to see which routes end up staying, and which ones go, or never return, for that matter. The lack of AC widebodies will also complicate matters.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/air-c ... ng-service

Paraphrasing from the article, they are already looking at purchasing additional freighters.

I don't know whats up with ex-DL 77L's but wouldn't like 4 or so of those be not a bad addition to the fleet? or are they all of those being converted to freighters?

letsoc wrote:

I don't know whats up with ex-DL 77L's but wouldn't like 4 or so of those be not a bad addition to the fleet? or are they all of those being converted to freighters?

Mammoth has acquired all 10 ex.DL 77Ls for conversion.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2021/09/10 ... ta-777lrs/

With so few B77Ls actually built, they'd be crazy to launch a conversion program specific to that frame without first acquiring as many B77Ls as they can.

Air Canada is suspending YVR-DEL between June 2 and September 8. The airline says the extended routing is making flights unviable.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6410917

^Along with the tech stop and weather

crosscheckyyz wrote:

I guess this is in retaliation to DL bumping up the flights? Goodness knows the flights are packed to the gills. I just wish they would open up MEL.

With the ongoing situation with QR and Airbus what are the chances of AC getting those QR 321s? I mean I'm almost certain that they will resolve the situation, but in the chance that its not?

Not sure how this can be retaliation. It isn’t like AC and DL are huge competitors. Either way, DL doesn’t go 10x weekly until December, this is Northern Summer.

C-FTCA has departed TLV probably on delivery to AC or heading to the paint shop: https://www.flightradar24.com/2b68d777

Or just a test flight over the Mediteranean Sea...

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

C-FTCA has departed TLV probably on delivery to AC or heading to the paint shop: https://www.flightradar24.com/2b68d777

Or just a test flight over the Mediteranean Sea...

Did a few test flights yesterday and today. Still at TLV as of 0340Z/2340 EST

[/quote]Right now, due to there being very few Asian flights out of YVR, this makes routes to SE Asia/Australia very profitable at the moment. Not many cheap 1-stop connecting options available from YVR to SIN or Australia. This is why SQ launched non stop to YVR, and it's also why AC is interested in YVR-SIN all of a sudden, according to their 2022 investor day presentation. The same presentation from 2019 didn't have YVR-SIN.[/quote]

AC has been interested in SIN for a long time now. Indeed before SQ or UA even announced SFO service. It was mentioned both internally and externally a number of times over the past 7 or so years. The 2015 Investor Day presentation even has it on the map of potential opportunities. https://www.aircanada.com/content/dam/a ... y_2015.pdf

There are a number of challenges with the YVR-SIN route one of which includes the company and ACPA agreeing to ultra long haul crewing requirements.

Thenoflyzone wrote:

letsoc wrote:

I don't know whats up with ex-DL 77L's but wouldn't like 4 or so of those be not a bad addition to the fleet? or are they all of those being converted to freighters?

Mammoth has acquired all 10 ex.DL 77Ls for conversion.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2021/09/10 ... ta-777lrs/

With so few B77Ls actually built, they'd be crazy to launch a conversion program specific to that frame without first acquiring as many B77Ls as they can.

I believe the Mammoth program is for both 77L’s and 77W’s.

whywhyzee wrote:

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/air-canada-wants-more-cargo-jets-3-months-after-launching-service

Paraphrasing from the article, they are already looking at purchasing additional freighters.

IAI 77W freighters would be the logical addition. There isn’t a shortage of stock and AC ran 7 77W’s without seats as freighters during Covid.

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

Thenoflyzone wrote:

letsoc wrote:

I don't know whats up with ex-DL 77L's but wouldn't like 4 or so of those be not a bad addition to the fleet? or are they all of those being converted to freighters?

Mammoth has acquired all 10 ex.DL 77Ls for conversion.

https://worldairlinenews.com/2021/09/10 ... ta-777lrs/

With so few B77Ls actually built, they'd be crazy to launch a conversion program specific to that frame without first acquiring as many B77Ls as they can.

I believe the Mammoth program is for both 77L’s and 77W’s.

Yes, but there are other 77W conversion companies out there. Whereas Mammoth is the one that launched the 77L conversion program. No sense in doing that with only 1 or 2 frames on hand. Or else they’d just convert 77Ws and call it a day.

Some changes in the peak summer schedule (July-August 2022) in the last week:

AC042 YYZ-DEL now 77L (as excepted)
AC050 YUL-DEL now 77L (as expected)
AC063 YVR-ICN now 77W
AC096 YUL-GRU now 77L (makes sense – rotations with DEL)
AC800 YYZ-DUB now 77W
AC802 YUL-DUB now 789 (was 788)
AC804 YVR-DUB now 789 (was 788)
AC826 YYZ-AMS now 77L until July 15, then 789
AC842 YYZ-FRA now 789 (was 77L)
AC848 YYC-FRA now 789 (was 77L)
AC862 YVR-LHR now 77W

I know more changes are to come.

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

AC has been operating YYC-LHR and I don't see see it going away in the summer.

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

YYC-LHR is certainly not going anywhere. What would make you think that?

YYC-LHR AC 850 789 (daily)

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

YYC-LHR has been operating since last fall, and FRA since summer last year. WS also operates LGW along side LHR and the other routes you listed. As for SEL, ZRH, and GLA (I don’t remember that one operating) they were seasonal one summer that was it.

Anyone know the loads for AC 828 / 826 (YYZ - AMS) April 22nd -- seems this is the only day AC is flying double daily as a one-off. Chances they cancel one frequency ?

CYYZFlyer wrote:

Anyone know the loads for AC 828 / 826 (YYZ - AMS) April 22nd -- seems this is the only day AC is flying double daily as a one-off. Chances they cancel one frequency ?

There are enough booked that it’s unlikely one flight would be cancelled. Or …. if they combined flights, it would take the 400 seat 777 to do it, and even still, it would be tight. (The 450 seat 777 couldn’t accommodate all booked.)

It’s very curious, as I don’t see what the extra 787 will do out of AMS as nothing appears scheduled.

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

C-FTCA has departed TLV probably on delivery to AC or heading to the paint shop: https://www.flightradar24.com/2b68d777

Or just a test flight over the Mediteranean Sea...

It’s going TLV-FRA April 12 to pick up cargo. Then should be flying to YYZ

matt wrote:

Air Canada is suspending YVR-DEL between June 2 and September 8. The airline says the extended routing is making flights unviable.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6410917

Wasn’t expecting that TBH. There is less 6th freedom capacity these days, and even within that, the US ones require pre-arrival testing on both ends, which is a pain. Summer is low season, but Sept 8 misses out on the mid-August student traffic. Odd that they wouldn’t suspend it till mid October/November to catch the India peak, instead of picking the second week of September.

Is AI daily now?

CYYZFlyer wrote:

Anyone know the loads for AC 828 / 826 (YYZ - AMS) April 22nd -- seems this is the only day AC is flying double daily as a one-off. Chances they cancel one frequency ?

I would think it is cargo related and they simply decided to sell the seats as well.

Whiteguy wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

YYC-LHR has been operating since last fall, and FRA since summer last year. WS also operates LGW along side LHR and the other routes you listed. As for SEL, ZRH, and GLA (I don’t remember that one operating) they were seasonal one summer that was it.

Sorry I fail to see what SEL airport is?.....

FabienA380 wrote:

Whiteguy wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

YYC-LHR has been operating since last fall, and FRA since summer last year. WS also operates LGW along side LHR and the other routes you listed. As for SEL, ZRH, and GLA (I don’t remember that one operating) they were seasonal one summer that was it.

Sorry I fail to see what SEL airport is?.....

City code for Seoul.

Whiteguy wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

YYC-LHR has been operating since last fall, and FRA since summer last year. WS also operates LGW along side LHR and the other routes you listed. As for SEL, ZRH, and GLA (I don’t remember that one operating) they were seasonal one summer that was it.

They flew YVR-YYC-PIK 1987-1988 and YVR-YYZ-GLA in the mid 90s for one or two summers but my God that was 2 1/2 decades ago! EEK

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft

Looking at the impressive loads on both YYC-LHR and YYC-FRA, it would appear the only “shortage” effects might be not being able to add a second daily flight.

CrewBunk wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft

Looking at the impressive loads on both YYC-LHR and YYC-FRA, it would appear the only “shortage” effects might be not being able to add a second daily flight.

Not certain where you are gathering your info from, but both routes are running half (or less) full currently and for many dates throughout the summer months.

c3000flyboy wrote:

Not certain where you are gathering your info from, but both routes are running half (or less) full currently and for many dates throughout the summer months.

Correct. Three or four months away, there are open seats. If flights that far in advance were showing full then clearly yield management would need adjusting as fares were too low, or lowest fare buckets were too large.

Or look at it this way. On a random day in June, Westjet is charging $299 for YYC-LHR, Air Canada’s cheapest fare is $856. Who do you think will be making money as when departure time rolls around, both are likely to be full.

LHR, THIS WEEK is full/oversold. FRA as always, has 8000kgs to 17000kgs of cargo planned. That’s why it went daily before LHR.

CrewBunk wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft

Looking at the impressive loads on both YYC-LHR and YYC-FRA, it would appear the only “shortage” effects might be not being able to add a second daily flight.

In LHR, AC probably has no slots for a 2nd YYC flight or it would need to cut a pair to another destination.
In FRA, LH had the "brilliant" idea to start the route with 4Y (AC is not codesharing on it but revenue sharing through the JV anyways). Since the current AC flight is leaving at 1.30 PM, a 2nd flight would need a morning slot and AFAIK these are also difficult to get.

CrewBunk wrote:

c3000flyboy wrote:

Not certain where you are gathering your info from, but both routes are running half (or less) full currently and for many dates throughout the summer months.

Or look at it this way. On a random day in June, Westjet is charging $299 for YYC-LHR, Air Canada’s cheapest fare is $856. Who do you think will be making money as when departure time rolls around, both are likely to be full.

AC infamously prices their one way flights to be almost the same price as a round trip. You’ve cherry picked a one way fare offered by AC and compared it to a one way fare offered by WS. Since most people tend to book round trips, pricing one way flights doesn’t accurately represent the pricing variance between the two.

For an apples to apples comparison on YYC-LHR round trip on either airline in June you’ll see the price comes to a very similar $800-$1,000 on either airline in the lowest fare bucket in Y depending on the dates chosen. A minimal difference at best.

LHR, THIS WEEK is full/oversold. FRA as always, has 8000kgs to 17000kgs of cargo planned. That’s why it went daily before LHR.

YYC-LHR might be full, but the returns, with the exception of tomorrow are barely half full with very poor J bookings for most days over the next two weeks. It seems heavily one directional right now which is likely why a second frequency wouldn’t work during the off peak season.

skipness1E wrote:

Whiteguy wrote:

idjim319 wrote:

Is AC returning this summer to YYC-LHR? I see Westjet is serving the route as well as Dublin, Paris and Rome from Calgary! Given how long AC has had this route, it'd be a shame to simply let WJ take it from them. The AC A333 (and all other widebody aircraft have) have served it for years. The oil economy is picking up and Alberta is starting to make a move from the economic doldrums and it seems if YYC-FRA is running, then LHR would come back too. Over the years AC has given up quite a few interesting routes from YYC including SEL, ZRH and GLA. Is this another issue of shortage of longhaul aircraft or is it due to a focus as usual on YYZ (hate YYZ T1 and will avoid continually if alternatives exist) and YUL?

YYC-LHR has been operating since last fall, and FRA since summer last year. WS also operates LGW along side LHR and the other routes you listed. As for SEL, ZRH, and GLA (I don’t remember that one operating) they were seasonal one summer that was it.

They flew YVR-YYC-PIK 1987-1988 and YVR-YYZ-GLA in the mid 90s for one or two summers but my God that was 2 1/2 decades ago! EEK

PIK operated from YYC one summer with an A340 in ‘97 or ‘98, same with ZRH with a B762…

The above few threads illustrate a common theme these days-cherry picking numbers to make/justify your case (Crewbunk).

Of course things are usually more complicated as is the truth in most cases (Whiteguy).

I do appreciate the process of challenging in order to arrive at a more balanced answer though. I've also been corrected on here before but it is part of learning.

There will never be a second YYC-LHR on AC. AC doesn't have the slots and YVR goes double daily in the summer to LHR. BA still isn't back into the YYC market.

FRA has been a 77L out of YYC because of the cargo demand. The 77L fleet is being used for India due to the airspace restrictions. FRA has many more connections options via LH which is why the demand for FRA Is higher.

EdmFlyBoi wrote:

There will never be a second YYC-LHR on AC. AC doesn't have the slots and YVR goes double daily in the summer to LHR. BA still isn't back into the YYC market.

FRA has been a 77L out of YYC because of the cargo demand. The 77L fleet is being used for India due to the airspace restrictions. FRA has many more connections options via LH which is why the demand for FRA Is higher.

Not saying AC would operate an additional frequency to LHR from YYC, they do however have LHR slots they are not utilizing such as those once used from YOW and YYT. There may possibly be another unused YYZ slot, not sure though.

Skywatcher wrote:

The above few threads illustrate a common theme these days-cherry picking numbers to make/justify your case (Crewbunk).

Cherry picking? More likely I just picked one random day in June using Travelocity. Frankly, I’m not that invested in the discussion to bother checking every day.