Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
richcandy wrote:crosscheckyyz wrote:Do you mean 777-300ER for YYZ? And not the 767s which are operated by AC Cargo?richcandy wrote:
Looking at September 2022
LHR-YUL x 2 787-8/9
LHR-YYZ x 3 767-300er x 2/787-8
LHR-YVR x 2 787-9
LHR-YHZ x 1 737-8
LHR-YYC x 1 787-9
What have I missed?
Thanks
Alex
Just looking at a random date 05Sep and AC855 & AC859 are showing on the AC website as being operated by 767-300
Alex
FabienA380 wrote:richcandy wrote:crosscheckyyz wrote:Do you mean 777-300ER for YYZ? And not the 767s which are operated by AC Cargo?
Just looking at a random date 05Sep and AC855 & AC859 are showing on the AC website as being operated by 767-300
Alex
I'm just looking now and it shows 77W.....
richcandy wrote:crosscheckyyz wrote:Do you mean 777-300ER for YYZ? And not the 767s which are operated by AC Cargo?richcandy wrote:
Looking at September 2022
LHR-YUL x 2 787-8/9
LHR-YYZ x 3 767-300er x 2/787-8
LHR-YVR x 2 787-9
LHR-YHZ x 1 737-8
LHR-YYC x 1 787-9
What have I missed?
Thanks
Alex
Just looking at a random date 05Sep and AC855 & AC859 are showing on the AC website as being operated by 767-300
Alex
VCVSpotter wrote:Air Canada 777-200LR C-FNNH is parked outside of the ComAv hangar at VCV without any coverings and looks like she should be ready to go within a week or two, tops. Great that all of the 77Ls will soon be out of VCV and back in service
richcandy wrote:crosscheckyyz wrote:Do you mean 777-300ER for YYZ? And not the 767s which are operated by AC Cargo?richcandy wrote:
Looking at September 2022
LHR-YUL x 2 787-8/9
LHR-YYZ x 3 767-300er x 2/787-8
LHR-YVR x 2 787-9
LHR-YHZ x 1 737-8
LHR-YYC x 1 787-9
What have I missed?
Thanks
Alex
Just looking at a random date 05Sep and AC855 & AC859 are showing on the AC website as being operated by 767-300
Alex
richcandy wrote:Thenoflyzone wrote:Dominion301 wrote:
However, S21, and now S22, AC have 12 daily flights to LHR (168 weekly slots, not counting the 3 slot pairs leased to UA and 0B). I'm thinking the extra slot pair came from Air China, but I'm not 100% sure. This trade is listed as a slot return for S21. 14 weekly slot pairs.
.
Looking at September 2022
LHR-YUL x 2 787-8/9
LHR-YYZ x 3 767-300er x 2/787-8
LHR-YVR x 2 787-9
LHR-YHZ x 1 737-8
LHR-YYC x 1 787-9
What have I missed?
Thanks
Alex
richcandy wrote:FabienA380 wrote:richcandy wrote:
Just looking at a random date 05Sep and AC855 & AC859 are showing on the AC website as being operated by 767-300
Alex
I'm just looking now and it shows 77W.....
I have just checked again and it is now showing a 777 earlier today and yesterday it was showing 767. (honest! )
Anyway are there 9 daily departures between UK and Canada in September or more?
Alex
richcandy wrote:crosscheckyyz wrote:Do you mean 777-300ER for YYZ? And not the 767s which are operated by AC Cargo?richcandy wrote:
Looking at September 2022
LHR-YUL x 2 787-8/9
LHR-YYZ x 3 767-300er x 2/787-8
LHR-YVR x 2 787-9
LHR-YHZ x 1 737-8
LHR-YYC x 1 787-9
What have I missed?
Thanks
Alex
Just looking at a random date 05Sep and AC855 & AC859 are showing on the AC website as being operated by 767-300
Alex
IceCream wrote:richcandy wrote:crosscheckyyz wrote:Do you mean 777-300ER for YYZ? And not the 767s which are operated by AC Cargo?
Just looking at a random date 05Sep and AC855 & AC859 are showing on the AC website as being operated by 767-300
Alex
I see 3 flights showing up that day on AC (1x787, 2x777)
skipness1E wrote:Just for fun, Air Canada in normal times at LHR since the move to T2 :
2019W 8 YOW YUL YVR YYC YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2019S 9 YOW YUL YVR YVR YYC YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ (MAX grounding)
2018S 11 YHZ YOW YUL YVR YVR YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2017S 10 YHZ YOW YUL YVR YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2016S 11 YHZ YOW YUL YVR YVR YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2015S 12 YEG YHZ YOW YUL YVR YYC YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
matt wrote:skipness1E wrote:Just for fun, Air Canada in normal times at LHR since the move to T2 :
2019W 8 YOW YUL YVR YYC YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2019S 9 YOW YUL YVR YVR YYC YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ (MAX grounding)
2018S 11 YHZ YOW YUL YVR YVR YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2017S 10 YHZ YOW YUL YVR YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2016S 11 YHZ YOW YUL YVR YVR YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
2015S 12 YEG YHZ YOW YUL YVR YYC YYC YYT YYZ YYZ YYZ YYZ
Thank you for this!
2015S would actually be 11, as YEG was 3x/weekly and YYC was 11x/weekly, which totals 2 slots.
YYC-LHR (AC850, 333, days 1234567)
YYC-LHR (AC852, 763, days 1246)
YEG-LHR (AC898, 763, days 357)
Two aircraft in total (14 flights a week from YYC and YEG combined).
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:Earlier today launched another step to it's all cargo network: https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... s-network/
Cessnapimp wrote:SpaceshipDC10 wrote:Earlier today launched another step to it's all cargo network: https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... s-network/
Kinda wanted the 2nd one in the new colours. Shucks. 3rd one I guess.
richcandy wrote:I have just checked again and it is now showing a 777 earlier today and yesterday it was showing 767. (honest! )
leftcoast8 wrote:Which carrier is most likely to capture YVR-DEL demand with AC out of the picture? BA, Lufthansa, Turkish, routing via US? (out of SEA, QR/EK/SQ; or WS/EK codeshare via LAX.)
Cessnapimp wrote:SpaceshipDC10 wrote:Earlier today launched another step to it's all cargo network: https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... s-network/
Kinda wanted the 2nd one in the new colours. Shucks. 3rd one I guess.
EdmFlyBoi wrote:Cessnapimp wrote:SpaceshipDC10 wrote:Earlier today launched another step to it's all cargo network: https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... s-network/
Kinda wanted the 2nd one in the new colours. Shucks. 3rd one I guess.
3rd one should be as it is presently in Rouge colours.
codyul wrote:Q1 MDA:
Airbus A321XLR Aircraft
Air Canada is acquiring 30 extra-long range (XLR) versions of the Airbus A321neo aircraft (Airbus
A321XLR), an increase of 4 Airbus A321XLR aircraft announced in March 2022. Deliveries are expected to
begin in the first half of 2024 with the final aircraft to arrive in 2027. Of the 30 total aircraft, 20 aircraft
will be leased and ten are being acquired under a purchase agreement with Airbus S.A.S. that includes
purchase rights to acquire up to an additional 15 aircraft between 2027 and 2030.
Airbus A220-300 Aircraft
Air Canada’s agreement with Airbus Canada for the purchase of Airbus A220-300 aircraft provides for:
• Firm orders for 45 Airbus A220-300 aircraft
• Purchase options for 30 additional Airbus A220-300 aircraft
Boeing 737 MAX
Air Canada’s agreement with Boeing for the purchase of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft provides for:
• Firm orders for 40 Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft
• Purchase options for 10 Boeing 737 MAX aircraft
Boeing 787-9 Aircraft
Air Canada exercised options for the purchase of three Boeing 787-9 aircraft which are scheduled to be
delivered in 2023 and in 2024. Air Canada has no additional purchase options for Boeing 787 aircraft.
codyul wrote:Q1 MDA:
Airbus A321XLR Aircraft
Air Canada is acquiring 30 extra-long range (XLR) versions of the Airbus A321neo aircraft (Airbus
A321XLR), an increase of 4 Airbus A321XLR aircraft announced in March 2022. Deliveries are expected to
begin in the first half of 2024 with the final aircraft to arrive in 2027. Of the 30 total aircraft, 20 aircraft
will be leased and ten are being acquired under a purchase agreement with Airbus S.A.S. that includes
purchase rights to acquire up to an additional 15 aircraft between 2027 and 2030.
Thomaas wrote:codyul wrote:Q1 MDA:
Airbus A321XLR Aircraft
Air Canada is acquiring 30 extra-long range (XLR) versions of the Airbus A321neo aircraft (Airbus
A321XLR), an increase of 4 Airbus A321XLR aircraft announced in March 2022. Deliveries are expected to
begin in the first half of 2024 with the final aircraft to arrive in 2027. Of the 30 total aircraft, 20 aircraft
will be leased and ten are being acquired under a purchase agreement with Airbus S.A.S. that includes
purchase rights to acquire up to an additional 15 aircraft between 2027 and 2030.
Looks like Airbus is slowly assigning the Qatar frames to other customers, I expect Air Canada was at the front of the line for more. I’m surprised it’s only 4 more, although the timeline of the Airbus deliveries might have been moved up while the leases are later deliveries.
CrewBunk wrote:Air Canada also just announced the purchase of two new 767Fs from Boeing. They will be delivered this year.
Maybe I’m showing my age, but it’s cool to see another new 767 on the Seattle ramp with a maple leaf on the tail.
yyztpa2 wrote:Factory new B767 is unexpected:
https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... ues-climb/
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:yyztpa2 wrote:Factory new B767 is unexpected:
https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/f ... ues-climb/
Indeed however it shows the strength of the demand and thus the need to add capacity faster. It's nice to see another brand new 767 for Canada, especially a new version. When did AC got it's last new 767?
krisyyz wrote:Interesting and unexpected. The new 767s are a big surprise. There must be tonnes of used 767s available, albeit older frames.
What is the payload and performance difference between a converted 767 and a new build 767F? I know there is quite the difference in a 77L converter to a freighter and a 777F.
I wonder if AC will stay with the PW engines for these new builds. Are the new 767Fs delivered with the new LCD (787 type) flightdecks or is that a carrier choice?
KrisYYZ
LDRA wrote:Why new 767? Are they going to be used on short missions, such that fuel consumption is not terribly important? I thought only Fedex and UPS need new 767F due to wingspan to fit in parking spot at their sorting facilities
krisyyz wrote:
I wonder if AC will stay with the PW engines for these new builds. Are the new 767Fs delivered with the new LCD (787 type) flightdecks or is that a carrier choice?
KrisYYZ
LDRA wrote:Why new 767? Are they going to be used on short missions, such that fuel consumption is not terribly important? I thought only Fedex and UPS need new 767F due to wingspan to fit in parking spot at their sorting facilities
ThePointblank wrote:I believe it would be C-GHLV, MSN 30852, LN:843, delivered directly to Air Canada in October of 2001. She was a leased bird from GECAS.
Last seen flying with Rogue.
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:For those surprised by the new-built 767F addition this must be the reason, both more capacity and faster. Will they be leased?
"Air Canada began flying its first Boeing 767-300 converted freighter in late December and the arrival of a second aircraft is imminent. Israel Aircraft Industries is remodeling older Air Canada passenger jets to carry heavy freight. Six more will be produced between now and the end of 2023, according to airline executives."
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/air-c ... ng-serviceThePointblank wrote:I believe it would be C-GHLV, MSN 30852, LN:843, delivered directly to Air Canada in October of 2001. She was a leased bird from GECAS.
Last seen flying with Rogue.
Thanks
idjim319 wrote:SpaceshipDC10 wrote:For those surprised by the new-built 767F addition this must be the reason, both more capacity and faster. Will they be leased?
"Air Canada began flying its first Boeing 767-300 converted freighter in late December and the arrival of a second aircraft is imminent. Israel Aircraft Industries is remodeling older Air Canada passenger jets to carry heavy freight. Six more will be produced between now and the end of 2023, according to airline executives."
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/air-c ... ng-serviceThePointblank wrote:I believe it would be C-GHLV, MSN 30852, LN:843, delivered directly to Air Canada in October of 2001. She was a leased bird from GECAS.
Last seen flying with Rogue.
Thanks
When was the last time that AC operated all cargo aircraft? What has changed in the past year or two that have driven them towards a whole sub fleet of freighters? I am well aware of COVID why is that is contributing in some way to a freighter fleet? What are they hauling that cannot be handled by 777s or 787s? Are the pilots on the same pay grade? I know the 737s and A220s aren't containerized like the A320s. Is this part of it?
On a second note, what has become of the staff for those 25+ 767s that were flying internationally? Have they been able to move to mainline? I've flown twice in the front end of a Rouge and I found the service to be excellent. I've also flown in the back and frankly it isn't bad if you think what you paid for. It is a product that suits my wallet and my travel ambitions well. I'm very sorry to see them gone from all of those European secondary cities.
HJM wrote:Long time ago there was a fleet of cargo DC8 aircraft.
ramprat320 wrote:The 767F pilot positions are bid from within the AC pilot group. Just as Rouge was. The 767F positions pay approximately 10% less than the old 767 pax rates pilots made when AC was operating them.
idjim319 wrote:ramprat320 wrote:The 767F pilot positions are bid from within the AC pilot group. Just as Rouge was. The 767F positions pay approximately 10% less than the old 767 pax rates pilots made when AC was operating them.
What would justify paying them 10% less? Isn't it the exact same job except they don't have to deal with making announcements? Presumably it takes the same amount of training and skill to fly a plane full of cargo. I suppose it is just less hassle not having 280 passengers but it is the flight attendants who are there to deal with them. Very interesting to learn that!
CrewBunk wrote:idjim319 wrote:ramprat320 wrote:The 767F pilot positions are bid from within the AC pilot group. Just as Rouge was. The 767F positions pay approximately 10% less than the old 767 pax rates pilots made when AC was operating them.
What would justify paying them 10% less? Isn't it the exact same job except they don't have to deal with making announcements? Presumably it takes the same amount of training and skill to fly a plane full of cargo. I suppose it is just less hassle not having 280 passengers but it is the flight attendants who are there to deal with them. Very interesting to learn that!
Without getting too political, it stemmed from an ineffective pilot union combined with a company that knows it.
When Air Canada came to the pilots with the 767F proposal, including a 10% pay cut, the answer should have been “get stuffed”.
It wasn’t.
Thomaas wrote:AC stated they needed the concessions and other work rule adjustments to be competitive with current cargo operators, otherwise they wouldn’t start the freighter program. It’s widely known that cargo pilots face tougher scheduling than commercial pilots, the cargo industry has a much higher churn rate as a result. The 767F flying will likely become the default entry door into mainline flying for new hire pilots, lower wage rates and shorter layovers to match. It still is a step up compared to regional flying.
CrewBunk wrote:Thomaas wrote:AC stated they needed the concessions and other work rule adjustments to be competitive with current cargo operators, otherwise they wouldn’t start the freighter program. It’s widely known that cargo pilots face tougher scheduling than commercial pilots, the cargo industry has a much higher churn rate as a result. The 767F flying will likely become the default entry door into mainline flying for new hire pilots, lower wage rates and shorter layovers to match. It still is a step up compared to regional flying.
That’s not what happened though. The 767F is just another equipment bid. And it went relatively senior, as even with a 10% cut on 767 rates, it still pays more than narrow body, 220, 737, 320. The working conditions and contract rules are identical to wide body passenger operations, and CARs still rules.
I was referring to Air Canada’s mantra “there’s no money in cargo”. I’ve been hearing it for decades and frankly it’s getting a little old. It’s getting a little hard to believe pilot wage concessions are the necessary line between profitable and non profitable operations. Especially considering freight airlines are among the most consistently profitable on the earth.
casperCA wrote:To me it sounds like a win-win situation for the pilots and the airline.