LLA001 wrote:

I will really miss C seats at 77W/333, even if you are flying solo I would prefer these, they feel much more spacious.

Agreed. Really not a fan of the new seats (as someone who is 195 cm tall with size 14=49,5 feet). Somehow I feel that TK has selected the worst (most cramped) staggered seats available. For instance, SK's seats seem to take up roughly the same footprint in the cabin and look similar but feel much more spacious, IMHO. SU's new staggered seats look very good as well, although I've not had a chance to try them yet.

TK787 wrote:

Anyone knows what is the occasion for this TK 77W flight, from Istanbul to Punta Cana??
By any chance, is this for the crew of "Survivor Turkey", going there to shoot the next season??
https://www.flightradar24.com/THY3278/2a727e24

Exactly! The participants shared this info on their instagram stories aswell.

Turkish Airlines carries 44.8M passengers in 2021 not sure how accurate this is https://www.yenisafak.com/en/news/turki ... 21-3587527

TK trims it's A350 orders down to 20 I remember reading on here last year it was down to 19 can someone confirm https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 59.article

TK773ER wrote:

TK trims it's A350 orders down to 20 I remember reading on here last year it was down to 19 can someone confirm https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 59.article

I do not know about the 19, but originally it was 25+5. Turkish media wrote now something about 22+5, so cancellation of 3 frames. However, Airbus December 2021 list shows 20 fix orders, means 5 cancellations.

Yakamoz wrote:

TK773ER wrote:

TK trims it's A350 orders down to 20 I remember reading on here last year it was down to 19 can someone confirm https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 59.article

I do not know about the 19, but originally it was 25+5. Turkish media wrote now something about 22+5, so cancellation of 3 frames. However, Airbus December 2021 list shows 20 fix orders, means 5 cancellations.

I did a quick research and found out that Turkish Airlines already cancelled 2 frames in 2020. So means, the cancellation now was only 3 frames. However, remaining order for A350 is now 20 fix + 5 options.

An update on the TK crews stranded in Kazakhstan; a TK 77W is bringing them back along with some ACT and Silk Way Airlines personnel. And Ilker Ayci of TK, who got out earlier out of Kazakhstan on a Cargo flight with his wife, is actually gone back to bring the crews, a much needed PR move

A 5-hour documentary titled “The Great Move” about TK's shift of Istanbul Airports in April 2019 is set to premiere this weekend on the National Geographic channel.

https://www.dailysabah.com/business/tra ... v-premiere

Short report for a Europe / Turkey trip I did over the holidays from SFO with LH, TK and XC (Corendon), in a combo of Y, J and F.

SFO-FRA (LH J 748):

-Check-in line was extremely backed-up for Y passengers. J was almost empty when I arriver but also got pretty busy by the time I left to go through security.
-SFO Polaris lounge was closed unfortunately. It is open as of early January and it's a huge step-up from the mediocre United Club in the international terminal. Luckily I had access to the Centurion lounge which has good food and cocktails.
-Masks enforced well (or actually, no need for the crew to enforce anything since passengers are a lot more disciplined to keep their masks on than on Turkish airlines)...
-Food was ok.
-Full flight in J except for a bunch of broken seats they didn't sell, which allowed me to have no neighbors. Surprised they had so many broken seats though, I was on the upperdeck and there were 3. On the lowerdeck I also saw multiple blocked seats on ExpertFlyer before departure but not sure if they were also broken.
-F was also full, PE and Y were close to full capacity.
-Good service, spent most of the time sleeping but they regularly checked to refill drinks etc (they are a lot more pro-active than on TK for drinks)
-In short, your usual LH flight, they offer consistency.

BRU-ADB (Corendon Y B737)

-Corendon charges 40 Euros (!!!) to check a 15kg bag (not even at the airport, this is at booking time, can't imagine the airport price tag). Also, if you don't check-in online before your flight, you are hit with a 10 euros check-in fee at the airport. Similar to Ryanair expect that you have to do it at least 5 hours before the flight. I was aware of this except the 5 hour part and had to foot the bill...
-Boarding was a mess. This has been my experience with any XC or XQ (Sunexpress) flight. At least this time, they were actively enforcing the rows that were called to board and sending passengers back.
-A lot of passengers with masks under their nose already in the jetbridge and for the duration of the flight. Crew didn't do much.
-I wish TK would offer more non-stop flights from secondary cities like ADB, I would gladly pay more to avoid Corendon or Sunexpress (which aren't even cheap in the first place).

ADB-IST (TK J 77W)

-Not much to say here expect happy to see the ADB lounge finally re-open.
-Booked this flight in J only because it was a widebody. No I did not need the lie flat seat for a 45 minutes flight but I knew that WB meant we would park at an international gate at IST and get bussed to the domestic terminal. So gladly paid the 30 euros extra for the J ticket to have a separate bus on arrival.
-Asked for a glass of wine and was told they do not serve alcoholic beverages on domestic flights. Is this new? I certainly remember being able to enjoy a glass of wine on this route a few years ago. Didn't bother me but found it odd.

IST-BRU (TK J A321neo)

-Took me about 40 minutes to the airport from Nisantasi by cab, not too bad.
-Check-in was a breeze, so was security
-As reported above, both TK lounges are now operational. Went to the Business lounge and was happy to see it not so busy during TK's early afternoon departure bank.
-Flight was great, only 5 passengers in J. Very attentive service and the food (Turkish meatballs) was way better than on the long-haul SFO-FRA on LH...
-Mask enforcement non existent, the 2 passengers sitting across the aisle from me basically had their masks off for the entire flight.

FRA-SFO (LH F 748)

-Understandably, my favorite part of the trip. I always get excited when I get the chance to fly LH F.
-In FRA, you have the option to use the First Class Lounge of the First Class terminal. I opted for the latter which involves going outside the airport (~10 minutes)
-They have "A la carte" dinning, ordered some eggs Benedict with smoked salmon (morning departure) which I enjoyed.
-After some time, one of the lounge agent came to let me know it was time to board and that my car was waiting downstairs
-Got a quick ride in a Cayenne to my 748 that would take me to California
-Onboard, 5 of the 8 seats were taken (w/ one of them broken again). J went out full as well, not sure about PE and Y.
-From here, everything was amazing. The crew was lovely and so was the food. Was able to get two servings of caviar which doesn't always happen.
-I was a little tipsy on arrival as I wanted to make the most of the flight

TLDR: LH J is what you would expect, Corendon gets you from point A to point B but don't expect much, TK was pleasant and had better food on a 3h flight than LH long haul, LH F was phenomenal and a huge step-up from their J offerings

The last Max8 for TK is on its way for delivery https://www.flightradar24.com/THY6830/2a7af45a

mict wrote:

Short report for a Europe / Turkey trip

Thanks for sharing, especially the finale

finally, the presumably last 73M8 for TURKISH AIRLINES was accepted yesterday and delivered today to Istanbul
TC–LCI BOEING 737–8 MAX cn/ln 60042/7637 dd12/01/2022
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-lci

TK773ER wrote:

The last Max8 for TK is on its way for delivery https://www.flightradar24.com/THY6830/2a7af45a

I've seen it now, sorry

mict wrote:

BRU-ADB (Corendon Y B737)

-Corendon charges 40 Euros (!!!) to check a 15kg bag (not even at the airport, this is at booking time, can't imagine the airport price tag). Also, if you don't check-in online before your flight, you are hit with a 10 euros check-in fee at the airport.

Did you booked the ticket through Corendon? Corendon does offer different tickets. The "ECO" ticket, like yours, is absolutely Ryanair-style, including NOTHING, not even hand-luggage! But for very little surcharge you can choose "FLEX", which is "standard" fare, inclusive Seat selection, 23KG Baggage, Airport check-in and 8KG Cabin baggage! So next time compare the fares before booking!

TC–SMB, another Boeing 737–8 MAX msn/ln 63604/8122 was handed over to SunExpress, btw it’s 6th
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/tc-smb

TK787 wrote:

mict wrote:

Short report for a Europe / Turkey trip

Thanks for sharing, especially the finale

Agreed!

I've flown long-haul C hundreds and hundreds of times but never "real" long-haul F (have flown in F cabins on TK's old leased B777s and in F cabin on one LH 747, but never with F service, and I've flown on QR's regional F and US domestic F, but that hardly counts) - would be a dream come true I just have a very hard time justifying the cost/miles compared to C

I stayed at home between March 2020 and May 2021, but I've since flown on TK, SK, LH, AC, UA, LX and LO, and I've only found mask enforcement to be good on AC and UA. Flew LO last week and none of the FAs had their masks on properly. On a full row 1, I was the only one who wore my masks (tight FFP2 and disposable mask on top - also boosted). Complained to LO at WAW but, as expected, no reaction/response. My home airport is ARN and that is a joke - perhaps 1 in 5 pax wear masks and 1 in 10 staff

Hello and a happy new year to everyone and their loved ones. I got to fly 2 Sectors in J with the TK 787 for the first time and I wanted to share my opinion to the best I can with you guys here, and maybe this would be me easing out of my sabbatical from posting here often like I used to:)
My first flight was to MIA, we chose the odd numbered middle section seats as they are suited for couples and I was traveling with my wife, we chose 5E and 5F. I took my time observing the cabin and the new product and I have to say just on looks the J pod looks like a solid well made product that hopefully won't cause many maintenance issues.
Now as for flying the thing for 11 hours to MIA and on the way back 13 hours from CUN to IST, I have to say I have mixed to negative feelings about the seat. Yes the privacy is very good, however I'am 5' 10'' 81 kg's and I really felt claustrophobic in the seat, the section where your feet goes is very very narrow, and to get out from the seat from the bed position is very difficult. Another problem for me on both flights is the panel on the side where you control the seat and lights and turn on the monitor, its so so sensitive me and my wife kept calling the FA and/or turning on the monitor on both flights. My return flight was less eventful as Tulum took its toll on my body and slept almost the entire flight, but the MIA flight I was awake for most of the flight and really got to experience the seat and the product.
I know most here take my opinion with a grain of salt as I criticize TK a lot, but I criticize them because they could be great, so I think the new J product is not the product that will carry the flag for TK for years to come, and I know my opinion won't change anything but I would think a J product like GF's would be so much better for TK and future proof the product.
Also TK has to come up with a W product, and come up with it quick. Their horribly executed previous experience left a bad taste in their mouths but they have to execute a smart W product. Why can't they execute better, get the widebodies with the right product from the factory and save money, now they will come up with changes and spend millions in modifying the fleet. Covid will end and things will pick up TK has the airport and the fleet to become a top player I would like it to seize the opportunity well. All the best to everyone and sorry for the lenghty post.

gokmengs wrote:

Also TK has to come up with a W product, and come up with it quick..

I wish it did happen too, J is getting too expensive and Y is getting too narrow but I think it would be difficult to insert this service with 4 types of different WBs serving at the moment.

Hey gokmengs, thanks for the trip report.
Similar feelings here about the 787 J product. Bumping the feet during sleep woke me up every single time and made me more upset each time
It is a good product for shorter flights and privacy. But I have a feeling it is not going anywhere, at least for the remaining 787/350 fleet.
Maybe in the future when there is a 77W replacement, they could go for a new product. You have to remember each single seat costs very expensive to replace.
By the way, any special tips on Tulum, where to eat/stay?? I am in the early stages of planning a looooong trip there next Jan-Feb.
Welcome back.

TK787 wrote:

Hey gokmengs, thanks for the trip report.
Similar feelings here about the 787 J product. Bumping the feet during sleep woke me up every single time and made me more upset each time
It is a good product for shorter flights and privacy. But I have a feeling it is not going anywhere, at least for the remaining 787/350 fleet.
Maybe in the future when there is a 77W replacement, they could go for a new product. You have to remember each single seat costs very expensive to replace.
By the way, any special tips on Tulum, where to eat/stay?? I am in the early stages of planning a looooong trip there next Jan-Feb.
Welcome back.

Hey my friend great to hear from you, I actually asked FA's on both flights and they said general feedback is very negative so lets see if they hear their customers.
As for Tulum just get in touch with me anytime I go there every year and can help you as best as I can.

Another Onur Air A330 has left the fleet.

TC-OCO AIRBUS A330-243 msn 525 lsd Bellinger Aviation Services ferried to Nîmes Airport (FNI) today (14/01/2022) after storage at Istanbul (ISL)

The fleet now consists of only 1 A332, 4 A320 and 5 A321

TURKISH AIRLINES
first flight of TC-LGF AIRBUS A350-941 msn 496 F-WZHJ at Toulouse (TLS).
https://a380.boards.net/thread/2889/a350-900-msn496-tk6?page=2

Just saw this update on TK website for February scheduling:
SFO and LAX going from 10 weekly to 7, MIA 14 to 10, BOS daily to 5W.
AMS 32-28, CGN 16-10, DUB 14-7, LHR 35-28, MAN 21-14, TLV 31 to 34 weekly.

Latest news from Turkey; if you are NOT vaccinated you no longer have to get a PCR test to get on a domestic flight or movie theatre, big gatherings.
What I don't get is you still have to show a HES code to get a ticket. I thought that HES code was for contact tracing.

TK787 wrote:

Latest news from Turkey; if you are NOT vaccinated you no longer have to get a PCR test to get on a domestic flight or movie theatre, big gatherings.
What I don't get is you still have to show a HES code to get a ticket. I thought that HES code was for contact tracing.

Interesting to know. There are no plans to introduce PCR test requirement for transit INTL passengers?

The 6th A350 for TK has made its first flight https://a380.boards.net/thread/2889/a35 ... tk6?page=2 Does anyone know how many A350 TK is taking this year ?

TKflyer wrote:

TURKISH AIRLINES
first flight of TC-LGF AIRBUS A350-941 msn 496 F-WZHJ at Toulouse (TLS).
https://a380.boards.net/thread/2889/a350-900-msn496-tk6?page=2

Thanks for the info TK773ER, has already been posted.

probably 4 A350 are to be accepted, at least the following ones are already known and depending on how the pandemic develops, of course.

TC-LGF Airbus A350–941 msn 496 F–WZHJ
TC-LGG Airbus A350–941 msn 532
TC-LGH Airbus A350–941 msn 565
TC-LGJ(?) Airbus A350–941 msn 597

TK787 wrote:

Latest news from Turkey; if you are NOT vaccinated you no longer have to get a PCR test to get on a domestic flight or movie theatre, big gatherings.
What I don't get is you still have to show a HES code to get a ticket. I thought that HES code was for contact tracing.

Latest LATEST news from Turkey; PCR tests are back to get on a domestic flight (not sure about movies, sport events, big gatherings). I am confused.
Stand by for more latest news

Any chance of BOS seeing an upgrade from the A333?

C777ER wrote:

Any chance of BOS seeing an upgrade from the A333?

I doubt that. Someone correct me, but I've never seen any daily up-gauge on the BOS route so far.
But what do I know, I don't have the demand numbers. But never seen a sole Cargo flight to BOS either. So no Cargo, no up tick in Business demand.....
A332/333 fro the foreseeable future, maybe a switch to when more arrive 787-9.

TK787 wrote:

C777ER wrote:

Any chance of BOS seeing an upgrade from the A333?

I doubt that. Someone correct me, but I've never seen any daily up-gauge on the BOS route so far.
But what do I know, I don't have the demand numbers. But never seen a sole Cargo flight to BOS either. So no Cargo, no up tick in Business demand.....
A332/333 fro the foreseeable future, maybe a switch to when more arrive 787-9.

Actually, TK was once considering to upgrade BOS to the 789, but then they reversed the decision. And that was even before the pandemic hit, so Boston has a long way to go until an aircraft change or frequency upgage will go into effect

Istanbul – Boston eff 29MAR20 A330-300 continues to operate 1 daily, replacing previously planned 787-9

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-28feb20/

Turkish 787 to boston begins in july

PITFlyer330 wrote:

Turkish 787 to boston begins in july

Ok wow you're right TK added 3x weekly A333 flights to BOS in the morning with a 07:40 departure out of Istanbul, switching to 787-9 on August 2. This makes BOS 10x weekly together with the weekly A333 for the summer season. After that it again drops to daily/5x weekly for winter

I was just looking for JFK-IST-BOS tix for the summer and saw that IST-BOS has two daily flights on the day I was looking.
*** Sorry, I just saw the previous comments I guess we are all thinking BOS
I was hoping to get a similar deal but flying to BOS instead of JFK adds a bunch to the fare. I guess I have to fly back to JFK and rent a car to drive up to BOS.
Still, nice to have options with TK.

Looks like all B789 services to Moscow are cancelled from now. Only 332/333 are visible in the timetable.

Does anybody know details of the delivery schedule per year of the remaining 15 A359, 15 B789 and 61 A321neo of TK?

As the last published delivery schedule is as of 2019 and isn't suitable anymore, maybe somebody knows any details.

AnadoluJet international service is a total disaster and needs immediate attention. At ESB check in counters you have to check in for flights separately according to desitnaiton but this is not indicated on the check in desk monitors so passengers pile up unnecessarily. More ground personnel is needed to handle crowds definitely. For an ESB AMS flight we paid an extra seat for my daughter last week and a pre-purchased meal too. Just before take off they put a pax next to her and we actually paid for that seat to be empty and they also did not deliver her pre-paid meal. It is a nightmare to deal with this lousy service for a 4 hour flight. I wish and hope a good airline starts serving ESB like KL, BA etc. TK doesn't bother to do anytrhing anywhere in Turkey other than IST for the obvious reasons. SOS for ESB and ADB for premium airlines...

Tolga Özbek writes that TK will go 10-abreast instead of 9-abreast in 3 of their B77W aircraft.
Can we assume that these are the three ex-Kenyan aircraft preferably used to DEL/BOM?

Turkish350XWB wrote:

Tolga Özbek writes that TK will go 10-abreast instead of 9-abreast in 3 of their B77W aircraft.
Can we assume that these are the three ex-Kenyan aircraft preferably used to DEL/BOM?

That could be a logical way to get around the India bilateral.
Those 3 frames have exactly the same specifications as the other TK 77Ws. All they have to do is to add 40-50 more seats in the middle, not sure if TK is required to add more lavs.

TK banned again at HKG 17-31January for importing COVID positive passengers.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJTiV67agAE ... name=large

TK787 wrote:

Turkish350XWB wrote:

Tolga Özbek writes that TK will go 10-abreast instead of 9-abreast in 3 of their B77W aircraft.
Can we assume that these are the three ex-Kenyan aircraft preferably used to DEL/BOM?

That could be a logical way to get around the India bilateral.
Those 3 frames have exactly the same specifications as the other TK 77Ws. All they have to do is to add 40-50 more seats in the middle, not sure if TK is required to add more lavs.

Well, you're missing one point: those three ex-Kenyan 77Ws are sun-leased. They are actually owned by a leasing company, leased (operatinal leasing) to Kenyan AW but later switches over to TK arter Kenyan AW sound them uneconomical to operete. And with tehir 28J+372Y=400 seans hey realle performed as workhorses on the two India routes prior to the pandemic. However, they were not leased for a long perioda of time; I believe only for 4-5 years. So, unless tehir lense perioda have been extended, hey will be returned to the lessor in 2022.

The 3 frames to be converted to 3-4-3 configuration (for the economy cabin) may tost likely come from TK's own 77W fleet (i.e. the 30 frames). Addition of the 4th seat in the middle row will probably bring them to a 397 seat configuration. But what books (at least to me) is to keep a bilg 49 seat J cabin. TK cannot film this J cabin with O%D or transfer pax for India.

Apart from this isse, it books to me possible that TK:

a) Allocates 2-3 more 77Ws for an all-cargo conversion, once these programmes pick up,
b) Allocates at least 2 77W for conversion to all Y configuration, for Hadi and Umrah services,
c) Allocates at least 2 333s for the same.

This will bring TK's 77W (49J+300Y) down to 22 frames (which will nede a definize re-config for the J cabin while retaining the 3-3-3 config in economy) but I stili wonder how muah economical these may remain against the neler generation 789 Dreamliners and 359XWBs.

As per TK traditions; I don't predict a 777X (778 and/or 779) order within the foreseeable future. At the east, until all 789 & 359 deliveries will be completed.

It's alo known and announced that 2 333s will soon be sent out for kargo conversion.

What I really wonder is what's going to happen with the 7 (leased for an average 7 years) ex-Symark 333 birds, which seem to be pretty useful in the regional longer range routes.

Also the 333 fleet will at 24 frames (after above mentioned 2+2 conversions) which will become partly TK owned: what's going to come out of the? The will not be as feasible as the 789s and 359s. And 24 frames is quite a big fleet to operete with a minimum on-ground time.

As for the 332s in the fleet, my gutfeel is that:
a) The 5 TK owned 332s (which are truly ER) will be used for long and this routes for several more years and then either scrapped or sold over top some "innocent" third party and may later find tehir way to Iran Air.
b) the 8 stili relatively young ex-TAM (AerCap leased) 332s will be sold over to Turkish ir Force for eventual conversion to MRTT.

If some or any of the pending 359XWB borders may be converted into some kind of XLR version (for Australia flights, if these will ever begin...) remains a puzzle for me.

Sorry if discussed before...

Corendon flight XC992 17JAN IST-IST Duration 21h26m:
https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/tc-tjs/

Routing seems IST-ROB-OUA-IST all in one flight numer - any more infos?

Sorry if discussed before...

Corendon flight XC992 17JAN IST-IST Duration 21h26m:
https://www.radarbox.com/data/registration/tc-tjs/

Routing seems IST-ROB-OUA-IST all in one flight numer - any more infos?

Sorry for several spelling mistakes in the first paragraph, regarding my message below. The correct version is:

Well, you're missing one point: those three ex-Kenyan 77Ws are sub-leased. They are actually owned by an aviation leasing company, leased (operatinal leasing) to Kenyan AW but later switched over to TK after Kenyan AW found them uneconomical to operete. And with their 28J+372Y=400 seats they really performed as workhorses on the two India routes prior to the pandemic. However, they are not leased for a longish period of time (like 8-10 years); I believe only for 4-5 years. So, unless their lease periods have been extended, they will be returned to the lessor in 2022.

It is highly probable that TK is trying to find a reasonable replacement from its own inventory.

Seems like the 5G topic in the US is getting really serious. For tomorrow, TK changed all of the 777-300ERs to 787-9s (instead of just canceling those flights like EK which of course would be insane). Let's see how this will develop...

emre787 wrote:

Seems like the 5G topic in the US is getting really serious. For tomorrow, TK changed all of the 777-300ERs to 787-9s (instead of just canceling those flights like EK which of course would be insane). Let's see how this will develop...

I guess EK had no choice other than cancelling the flights. The radar altimeters used in both 77W & A380 haven't been approved by FAA for being immune to 5G signal interference. That's why TK also must have stopped sending 77Ws out to USA. But, alas, EK has only the A380 & 77W in their fleet.

Sorry, "radar altimeter" is a very wrong term, it needs to be "radio altimeter"!

AFAIK, these 5G towers by few cell phone providers were not going to be used around JFK, EWR, LGA for 6 months.
Still, latest news:

"AT&T and Verizon Communications on Tuesday agreed to temporarily defer turning on some wireless towers near key airports to avert a significant disruption to U.S. flights as they roll out 5G service that will bring faster wireless service to tens of millions of people."

I don't get it, I've been to JFK, EWR and LGA within the last 4 months. I have 5G service where available in NYC, never checked if that was the case near the airports. The service goes to lower speed LTE where no 5G available. Still pretty fast and no disruptions.

On other news, airporthaber.com reports that Russia joins, Serbia, Armenia, Croatia and Greece to start vaccination tours to Turkey. Russians pay around $650 for a roundtrip ticket from Moscow to Istanbul, 2 night stay at a 3 star hotel and a vaccine. The article suggests that this is an alternative to Sputnik V vaccine they can get at home countries and that vaccine is not recognized for some international travel.
I imagine they get the Pfizer Biontech vaccine once in Istanbul.

TK787 wrote:

On other news, airporthaber.com reports that Russia joins, Serbia, Armenia, Croatia and Greece to start vaccination tours to Turkey. Russians pay around $650 for a roundtrip ticket from Moscow to Istanbul, 2 night stay at a 3 star hotel and a vaccine. The article suggests that this is an alternative to Sputnik V vaccine they can get at home countries and that vaccine is not recognized for some international travel.
I imagine they get the Pfizer Biontech vaccine once in Istanbul.

Assuming they get shot with the Pfizer-Biontech vac., what about the further (2nd) shot(s)?

This thing has gone totally crazy. It looks like we are not far from the days that someone will declare: "dear World Citizens! You need to get vaccinated once every two-three months and that will be good only for the known variants and/or for the variants that current vaccine may provide immunity!!"