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Ryanair News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:42 pm

Welcome to Ryanair news and discussion thread for 2022. Please continue to post your comments below

Link to 2021 thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468469
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Ryanair News and Discussion Thread - 2022

Fri Dec 31, 2021 11:10 pm

Ryanair guiding for €450m loss for the financial year ending in March as omicron hits demand and forced it to trim capacity by 1/3 in January

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4762254
 
fraT
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Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:26 am

Article in German:

https://www.aero.de/news-41644/Ryanair-gibt-Basis-in-Frankfurt-auf.html

In short: Ryanair will close its FRA base on 31MAR due to high airport costs.FRAPORT has recently raised again the fees for departures and landings.
They are currently building a new Terminal (T3) which was supposed to be a LCC terminal. But the opening has already been postponed to 2026 last year.

But with LH shifting flights to MUC also arguing the high fees in FRA and now the Ryanair departure we will see whether there is a rethinking on the side of FRAPORT.
 
Someone83
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:35 am

Are they leaving FRA completely or "just" closing the base?

Back to Hahn?
 
fraT
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:52 am

That's not clear right now, at least no from that article.
It only mentions that the remaining 5 aircraft which are currently based there, will go to other bases.
But since they are stating the high airport costs, I doubt that they will keep too many flights from other bases.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:01 am

RyanAir did get a special deal at FRA, from FRAPORT. FRAPORT was trying to lure new airlines. Lufthansa protested and asked to get similar conditions. I assume that the deal has run it's course and that the standard prices, that everybody else is paying, apply also to RyanAir. now
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:06 am

Not a very good marketing strategy. You are inevitably driving away a chunk of 'passengers' from FRA. I know a good number of people who self-connected from FR to many long-hauls, including LH, so no-one will be benefitting from this. It would have been better to make 'less money' but keep the airline and the steady flow of passengers, than make-do without any of both.
 
fraT
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:14 am

As mentioned above there was a deal in place for the first years (first 3 IIRC). But that has expired a while ago.
I doubt that too many pax were feedering to LH long haul. It's often the case that flights to longhaul destinations are cheaper including a feeder flight compared to the fare starting in FRA.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:22 am

For me as a passenger I find operating from FRA with Ryanair less than optimal.
There are often delays at FRA and on Ryanair flights it is seldom that they depart on time so they push to make up time along the way. If they really run over then the danger is that you won't be able to land before 23:00 in FRA.
Then you have to get the bus snaking around the airport to get back to terminal. Recently they have been using airbridges which don't help with onboarding either as everyone brings carry-on and one door at the front of the plane limits load times.
Hahn was always a less stressful flying experience for me than FRA when using Ryanair.
the planes appeared to be Malta air, not Buzz or Ryanair for most of my recent flights
I guess when the new Terminal is built which is pitched toward LCCs they will increase their presence again. I see the offramps on the Autobahn are being built when I pass by.

At Hahn you land, air stairs deploy and most of the passengers are deboarded before the rear doors are open.
At Hahn you close the doors, scoot over to the runway, don't worry about slots and are up in the air before you know it.
Flights were sometimes struggling to get approval for take-off in Dublin as they didn't have a slot to receive them in Frankfurt(???according to Pilot over tannoy).
Last edited by PhilipBass on Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Toinou
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:28 am

oldannyboy wrote:
Not a very good marketing strategy. You are inevitably driving away a chunk of 'passengers' from FRA. I know a good number of people who self-connected from FR to many long-hauls, including LH, so no-one will be benefitting from this. It would have been better to make 'less money' but keep the airline and the steady flow of passengers, than make-do without any of both.

The problem is if other airlines ask the same deal. Then, they may end up having the same number of passengers but making less money overall. Being a partially public-owned company, I wonder if Frapart is allowed to offer different prices to different customers for the same service.
 
Kikko19
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:46 am

FR used the favorable conditions until they expired. A parasite entity .
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:58 am

Kikko19 wrote:
FR used the favorable conditions until they expired. A parasite entity .

As has been mentioned by others on thread there are other airlines which FRAPORT couldn't retain so your comments are unfair.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:01 pm

From Hahn to Frankfurt city centre is about 2 hours on a not-very-frequent bus. Even Hahn to Mainz takes a minimum of 1h30. FRA airport however has a major rail station of its own and is extremely well connected in the German rail network
Yes, the bus between a FR aircraft and terminal at FRA might take an extra 5 or 10 mind.. but there was a huge saving in time by not having to drive or take the bus to Hahn - it really is a long way from any major town

I really don't see what is wrong with FR leaving FRA if fees are too high. FR became large by trying to cut costs like any business does. This is not about salaries becoming inhuman - this is from negotiations with Fraport as a large commercial company who seek only to maximise their revenues. If I see something in a shop that I like but the price is too high, I also refuse the purchase.

By Ryanair trying to cut costs, other airlines (eg BA or LH) have been forced into cutting their costs and offeeing much lower fares than 20 years ago - ultimately you as the passenger pays higher airfares to cover the higher airport fees
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:06 pm

Flights still bookable in April in Ryanair booking engine for April so Base appears to be closing and will be served remotely. I suspect my flights weren't served by a locally based flight for quite a while if ever.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:08 pm

The expected time saving from flying from FRA instead of Hahn never really materialized for me due to all the extra hassle on site at FRA.
I can drive to the airport but for those who don't FRA has unarguable advantages as it is excellently connected. by public transport.
 
marcogr12
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 12:17 pm

Fees were already high and Fraport, according to the article, is raising them again..Isn't that posing a problem for all airlines' profitability LCC and not? Wizzair left, FR is leaving, Vueling left..With the pandemic still riding high , passenger demand dropping fast, losses for all airlines and an uncertain future ahead of us till this over, is it really now the time for airports to be raising their fees and charges? Is this one of the reasons LH has been transferring some short-haul flights to EW/EW Discover? Maybe more will be transferred in the future?
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:06 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Are they leaving FRA completely or "just" closing the base?

Back to Hahn?


So, it appears all of the Canaries, as well as Faro, some Spain and most of Italy is going for good. Pity.
The rest will remain operational from other bases.
 
Blerg
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:15 pm

I have a few questions:

1. How big was FR in FRA? Anyone know how many passengers they had in 2021, 2020 and 2019?
2. Could the reopening of their NUE play a role in their decision regarding FRA?
3. How many of the 33.000 cancelled flights by the LH Group were from FRA?

If I were FRA management, I wouldn't be too happy about all this. Lufthansa isn't doing all that well over there and with MUC hub being slowly rebuilt and with fewer econazis in Bavaria, they might have more reasons to focus over there.
 
holczakker
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:51 pm

FRA is simply unfit for a low cost-type of operation. The night curfew, congestion, long taxi times, frequent slots, mediocre handling agents, slow security etc. are making it hell for a low cost (as a base). No early departures, no late arrivals, no quick turnarounds, no short taxi times, no high aircraft utilization, no possibility to recover delays through the night (mainly if you can not even land because of the night curfew, the multi-sector dense daily rotations can't be done as the constant delays are inevitably pushing you into the curfew at the end of the day). None of the core elements of a low cost base can work here.
 
peterjohns
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:57 pm

Blerg wrote:
I have a few questions:

1. How big was FR in FRA? Anyone know how many passengers they had in 2021, 2020 and 2019?
2. Could the reopening of their NUE play a role in their decision regarding FRA?
3. How many of the 33.000 cancelled flights by the LH Group were from FRA?

If I were FRA management, I wouldn't be too happy about all this. Lufthansa isn't doing all that well over there and with MUC hub being slowly rebuilt and with fewer econazis in Bavaria, they might have more reasons to focus over there.


FR is quite strong in FRA. They have 5 a/c stationed at FRA and quite a few flying to FRA from elsewhere, PMI for example. I flew to PMI 5 times with FR last year, and the flights were booked between 60% and 95% by my guessing.
MUC certainly won´t have cheaper fees for FR than FRA. FRAPORT Management may not be too happy about it- but why give in to FR blackmailing them to stay if given cheaper fees than the other airlines?
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:01 pm

I was looking at flightradar while wiating to board a Ryanair flight in FRA before christmas. It was on the ground quite a long time but we were still waiting in the halls past the boarding gate to get on a bus to take us to it. It is not the first time I saw this. Sometimes they mentioned ground staff delaying them in the past but there are so many delays that I hate the experience once I arrive in the airport.

In Hahn, totally different experience. You land or depart from plane maybe 30 metres from the very small terminal building/shed, you climb/descend the airstairs or mobile stairs while ground staff take away or deliver the checked baggage in trolleys. Bish, Bash, Bosch!
 
peterjohns
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:01 pm

holczakker wrote:
No early departures . None of the core elements of a low cost base can work here.


The earliest departures out of FRA are 5 in the morning- so early you can´t even get there by public transport as they are still asleep!!
 
Blerg
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:02 pm

peterjohns wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I have a few questions:

1. How big was FR in FRA? Anyone know how many passengers they had in 2021, 2020 and 2019?
2. Could the reopening of their NUE play a role in their decision regarding FRA?
3. How many of the 33.000 cancelled flights by the LH Group were from FRA?

If I were FRA management, I wouldn't be too happy about all this. Lufthansa isn't doing all that well over there and with MUC hub being slowly rebuilt and with fewer econazis in Bavaria, they might have more reasons to focus over there.


FR is quite strong in FRA. They have 5 a/c stationed at FRA and quite a few flying to FRA from elsewhere, PMI for example. I flew to PMI 5 times with FR last year, and the flights were booked between 60% and 95% by my guessing.
MUC certainly won´t have cheaper fees for FR than FRA. FRAPORT Management may not be too happy about it- but why give in to FR blackmailing them to stay if given cheaper fees than the other airlines?


Sorry, I should have been more clear. When I mentioned MUC I was referring to Lufthansa rebuilding their operations there which might negatively impact FRA in the future with all these price increases.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:04 pm

security check in and passport control early or late in day at FRA is not fun as staff numbers are less.
I discovered back in November in the morning hours big widebodies were departing from departure gates associated with security check for Ryanair gates and the queues were snaking around the terminal.
 
fessor
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:33 pm

Have I missed something but wasn't the new T3 at FRA not intended to be for LH ?
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:55 pm

 
Noshow
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:04 pm

Does this hub retreat mean "Frankfurt"-Hahn airport gets another chance with Ryanair?
 
holczakker
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:06 pm

peterjohns wrote:
holczakker wrote:
No early departures . None of the core elements of a low cost base can work here.


The earliest departures out of FRA are 5 in the morning- so early you can´t even get there by public transport as they are still asleep!!


You often find low cost (and charter) arrivals and even departures at 3-4 am at airports where it's possible. Btw public transport being unavailable for scheduled departures at the biggest airport of a big country is another thing making it unfit for ULCCs.
 
Toinou
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:12 pm

holczakker wrote:
peterjohns wrote:
holczakker wrote:
No early departures . None of the core elements of a low cost base can work here.


The earliest departures out of FRA are 5 in the morning- so early you can´t even get there by public transport as they are still asleep!!


You often find low cost (and charter) arrivals and even departures at 3-4 am at airports where it's possible. Btw public transport being unavailable for scheduled departures at the biggest airport of a big country is another thing making it unfit for ULCCs.


Could you give me an example of an airport with suitable public transport access at 3-4 am in Europe ?
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:15 pm

FRA gets some ICE trains in the middle of the night and there is some bus and local rail I think but it is still not well served at night.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:16 pm

Noshow wrote:
Does this hub retreat mean "Frankfurt"-Hahn airport gets another chance with Ryanair?

unlikely to help it much. FR probably just won't grow and serve the airport from other bases until Terminal 3 comes on line then review their position.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:19 pm

Toinou wrote:
Could you give me an example of an airport with suitable public transport access at 3-4 am in Europe ?


London-Heathrow, London-Stansted, London-Gatwick, London-Luton all have reliable public transport to central London 24 hours per day, 364 days per year. You might need to take a coach/bus instead of a train if travelling at 3 am, but that public transport will be available
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
fraT
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:21 pm

fessor wrote:
Have I missed something but wasn't the new T3 at FRA not intended to be for LH ?


T3 will have a big disadvantage compared to T1 and (with a lesser extend) T2: The train stations.
Both the local train station and the long haul train station are either within T1 or a short walk away. The airport train to T3 will go all around the runways and take 8 minutes or so. LH has also invested a lot in T1 in recent years/decades so they will never leave. Also the First Class Terminal is right next to T1.
 
Toinou
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:26 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Toinou wrote:
Could you give me an example of an airport with suitable public transport access at 3-4 am in Europe ?


London-Heathrow, London-Stansted, London-Gatwick, London-Luton all have reliable public transport to central London 24 hours on at least 6 days per week.

This is a good example.
I can add that there is a 24h service in Schiphol.
And many airports have some form of very early/late service.

But the question needs to go a bit further: can this service provide a reliable solution for the targeted public (ie some travelers and airport workers)? In most cases I know, the answer is not entirely positive. So apparently, it is not a complete no-go for airlines (which was the point).
That doesn't mean I consider that it's acceptable.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 pm

Toinou wrote:
holczakker wrote:
peterjohns wrote:

The earliest departures out of FRA are 5 in the morning- so early you can´t even get there by public transport as they are still asleep!!


You often find low cost (and charter) arrivals and even departures at 3-4 am at airports where it's possible. Btw public transport being unavailable for scheduled departures at the biggest airport of a big country is another thing making it unfit for ULCCs.


Could you give me an example of an airport with suitable public transport access at 3-4 am in Europe ?

..Brussels, Charleroi even, CDG, ARN... the list goes on....
 
PhilipBass
Posts: 406
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:27 pm

fraT wrote:
fessor wrote:
Have I missed something but wasn't the new T3 at FRA not intended to be for LH ?


T3 will have a big disadvantage compared to T1 and (with a lesser extend) T2: The train stations.
Both the local train station and the long haul train station are either within T1 or a short walk away. The airport train to T3 will go all around the runways and take 8 minutes or so. LH has also invested a lot in T1 in recent years/decades so they will never leave. Also the First Class Terminal is right next to T1.

It will be on the elevated rail system in the airport so it could be much worse and for those approaching from the South you'll be glad to get off the autobahn earlier.
 
factsonly
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:42 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Toinou wrote:
Could you give me an example of an airport with suitable public transport access at 3-4 am in Europe ?


London-Heathrow, London-Stansted, London-Gatwick, London-Luton all have reliable public transport to central London 24 hours per day, 364 days per year. You might need to take a coach/bus instead of a train if travelling at 3 am, but that public transport will be available


AMS is served by train throughout the night every night.

https://www.ns.nl/en/travel-information ... rains.html
 
Toinou
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:45 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Toinou wrote:
holczakker wrote:

You often find low cost (and charter) arrivals and even departures at 3-4 am at airports where it's possible. Btw public transport being unavailable for scheduled departures at the biggest airport of a big country is another thing making it unfit for ULCCs.


Could you give me an example of an airport with suitable public transport access at 3-4 am in Europe ?

..Brussels, Charleroi even, CDG, ARN... the list goes on....

Ok. My question was that a poster said that public transport in was bad during night. So I'm wondering if really other airports have something that is really better (and usefull) than the half-hourly S-Bahn service that serves FRA during night.
 
fraT
Posts: 1237
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:48 pm

PhilipBass wrote:
fraT wrote:
fessor wrote:
Have I missed something but wasn't the new T3 at FRA not intended to be for LH ?


T3 will have a big disadvantage compared to T1 and (with a lesser extend) T2: The train stations.
Both the local train station and the long haul train station are either within T1 or a short walk away. The airport train to T3 will go all around the runways and take 8 minutes or so. LH has also invested a lot in T1 in recent years/decades so they will never leave. Also the First Class Terminal is right next to T1.

It will be on the elevated rail system in the airport so it could be much worse and for those approaching from the South you'll be glad to get off the autobahn earlier.


But we are only talking about minutes and from the three other directions it will take slightly longer to drive to T3. Again the train stations are convenient but that is not the reason for LH to stay in T1. They invested too much in the infrastructure and I think T3 won't be big enough for their operation plus the partner airlines which need to be in the same terminal.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2817
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:52 pm

Toinou wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Toinou wrote:

Could you give me an example of an airport with suitable public transport access at 3-4 am in Europe ?

..Brussels, Charleroi even, CDG, ARN... the list goes on....

Ok. My question was that a poster said that public transport in was bad during night. So I'm wondering if really other airports have something that is really better (and usefull) than the half-hourly S-Bahn service that serves FRA during night.


Well, night-time will not be excellent in any case, and probably not very frequent, but it generally is better-timed in order to allow pax to reach the airport for those actual 'un-godly hour of the night' departures. FRA doesn't really seem to want to cater to these.
I think of course that this is a mere reflection of the night curfew policy. It seems they don't want to encourage an expansion of operating hours.
 
JustJet
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:58 pm

Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:09 pm

FRA changed its incentive scheme a while back to attract more airlines and to grow further. It attracted FR. If it is now changing its scheme, it isn't surprising FR will retaliate by cutting its base.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:14 pm

JustJet wrote:
FRA changed its incentive scheme a while back to attract more airlines and to grow further. It attracted FR. If it is now changing its scheme, it isn't surprising FR will retaliate by cutting its base.


Agree. It seems to me though (and maybe for a much too obvious reason) that FRA isn't reeeeally looking for more customers.....
 
airbazar
Posts: 10871
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:16 pm

They (LH, FR, etc), can complain all they want about the airport fees but the bottom line is there's no where else to go so the airport has all the leverage. MUC is full (pre-pandemic), and a 3rd runway is nowhere in sight. LHR has the same exact forces at play. As long as the population is against airport expansion, there will always be more airline/pax demand than airport slots. At the end of the day the fault is not with the airport but with the voter. That's how capitalism works: high demand + low supply = higher prices.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:23 pm

Kikko19 wrote:
FR used the favorable conditions until they expired. A parasite entity .


They operate no differently from any other business, or from your favorite airline but I'm betting if they done it you would class it as 'a good business decision'.
A 'parasite' you say, but it gets people where they want to go so really only your view.
 
AirbusOnly
Posts: 452
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:33 pm

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Kikko19 wrote:
FR used the favorable conditions until they expired. A parasite entity .
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 2454
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:39 pm

airbazar wrote:
They (LH, FR, etc), can complain all they want about the airport fees but the bottom line is there's no where else to go so the airport has all the leverage. MUC is full (pre-pandemic), and a 3rd runway is nowhere in sight. LHR has the same exact forces at play. As long as the population is against airport expansion, there will always be more airline/pax demand than airport slots. At the end of the day the fault is not with the airport but with the voter. That's how capitalism works: high demand + low supply = higher prices.


Cologne-Bonn has space. Really not that far from Frankfurt
 
PhilipBass
Posts: 406
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:40 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
They (LH, FR, etc), can complain all they want about the airport fees but the bottom line is there's no where else to go so the airport has all the leverage. MUC is full (pre-pandemic), and a 3rd runway is nowhere in sight. LHR has the same exact forces at play. As long as the population is against airport expansion, there will always be more airline/pax demand than airport slots. At the end of the day the fault is not with the airport but with the voter. That's how capitalism works: high demand + low supply = higher prices.


Cologne-Bonn has space. Really not that far from Frankfurt

It is far from south west Germany.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 2454
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:51 pm

If it's south west Germany you want to travel to/from, then Karlsruhe/Baden-Baden airport is probably a better bet for you - has plenty of routes with FR
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1542
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Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:53 pm

My apologies for this long and rambling post, but my questions about this situation are deeply rooted in the history of Germany and its differences from many other countries in the world.

One of the issues for Germany as a whole is that there is not one major city in the country that serves as the center of the country. Places such as London, Paris, Amsterdam, Tokyo, Seoul, Buenos Aires, and Mexico City are examples of what geographers call a "primate city", a city that dominates a country economically, socially, and culturally. The majority of visitors to countries such as these generally begin their trips in a primate city, meaning that airport is well-connected and a logical starting point. Yes, I know, Mexico doesn't fit that bill, with so many tourists flocking to the beach resort cities; however, in terms of sheer cultural domination of the country, Mexico City is a primate city.

Germany does not have a primate city. Until 1870-1871, this 'territory' was a collection of fiercely independent German-speaking kingdoms, principalities, dukedoms, and other types of nobility-controlled areas. Then the Prussians united the lands, and modern Germany was born. Yes, we know the rest, but the point is that even though Berlin became the capital, there was no primate city that dominated the others, and thus no obvious center of Germany.

Which brings us to Frankfurt itself, and how it found itself the center of Germany aviation. This dates back to 1936, as airship and airplane manufacturing began at what is now that site, and very quickly it became the center of travel to and from Germany. Of note: the Hindenburg airship departed from Frankfurt am Main airport. Hitler made it the center of manufacturing for the Luftwaffe, and after the war, the Americans turned it into their main base, allowing civilian aviation to re-start, with Lufthansa centering its operations at FRA.

But is Frankfurt a city that tourists are flocking to? Not really, but because of its facilities and being LH's hub, it is the main entry point for many, and it is usually the first airport in Germany that major airlines will try and serve, as that has just "always been the way it is".

Okay, that was a lot, but there are some questions I would like an expert to answer:

1) How does FRA's O&D compare with cities such as London or Paris? I would gather it is significantly less; however, given the business climate in Frankfurt, it is no less profitable.

2) Is the law still in effect that states "when coming from (insert the name of the certain countries for which this law applies), the price of an airplane ticket TO any destination with the Federal Republic must be the same as to Frankfurt"? I was told by my German friend (the one who found our cheaper airfare from LH in 2017!) that this is the case.

And again, my apologies for this being long, but here are the relevant questions to the topic:

3) Was Ryanair's desire to serve FRA based on prestige (getting the big bad evil Lufthansa to give up some of its turf), or was it based on actual O&D to serve the Frankfurt area?

4) What was the Hahn area's purpose? Did Ryanair actually use this for transfers? Or was it just for O&D?

Many years ago in the U.S., a start-up airline came on the scene, announcing it was going to compete "with the big boys", both on service and destinations. It found out very quickly that getting into certain high-profile fortress hubs was a lot harder than it sounded, and it complained that other airlines were getting preferential treatment. Considering that these "big boys" had invested a LOT of money into these locations, they weren't willing to just give them up and allow said start-up gate space and slots.

It almost sounds like that is what happened here at FRA. Ryanair took on Goliath, thinking it would win based on its name and its tradition of "being different". But FRA operates differently than do cities like Paris and London, and I can't help but wonder if Ryanair simply found itself unhappy with operations at this complex airport and is looking to save face.

Thanks for making it through!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11440
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Ryanair to leave FRA

Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:11 pm

AirbusOnly wrote:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Kikko19 wrote:
FR used the favorable conditions until they expired. A parasite entity .


There's no way to rationalize discounted rates long term for any carrier. The U.S. DOT has rules for carrier incentives (max two years for any qualifying new service) that are actually grounded in intelligent economics. Some selections:

Q6: We are trying to attract a low cost carrier. May I offer an incentive
only to a low cost carrier?
A6: No. Incentives must be for new service, not for a specific type of
carrier. Targeting only low cost carriers would violate the grant
assurance on economic nondiscrimination, and could possibly
violate the exclusive rights grant assurance.

Q7: May an incentive be tailored for a particular air carrier?
A7: No. All similarly situated air carriers must have the same
opportunity to receive the same incentives under the same
circumstances. Incentives may not be designed and offered to air
carriers on an individual basis.

Q8: May the incentive be limited to air service provided by aircraft that
must offer both coach service and either business or first class
service?
A8: No. Incentives may be based on routes selected by the airport
sponsor, not on service or equipment provided by the air carrier.

Q9: May the incentive be based on the type or size of aircraft?
A9: No. Incentive levels may vary based on the category of new service
offered. For example, incentives for international destinations may
be different from incentives for short hop flights, but all air carriers
meeting the destination requirement specified must be offered a
comparable incentive based on the goals of the air carrier incentive
program. The program must identify the incentives available for
each category. The program may not be unjustly discriminatory


Non-discriminatory. Time-limited.

If FR can't compete paying the rates everybody else pays, so sad.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_co ... e-2010.pdf

Now, if you want to discuss why the heck airport management is given over to for-profit companies, that's a separate thread. If you're in favor of that move, don't be surprised when the companies maximize their profits instead of competition or other consumer choice.

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