Any chance of Iberia launching Guadalajara or MTY? There is also big traffic from Spain to LAS.

lesfalls wrote:

Saudi’s plans for Summer 2022:
JED-AGP-MAD-JED, 30 JUN-28 AUG 2x weekly 787-9
NEW ROUTING: RUH-AGP-MAD-RUH, 30 JUN-28 AUG 2x weekly 787-9
Source: https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220329-svns22intl
(Ps: Airlineroutes 2.0 is back!)

Alas Saudia are not selling tickets from AGP to MAD... guess they don't have 9th freedom rights
It's great that Jim Liu is back though - thanks for pointing this out

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

avi8 wrote:

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

Iberia recovering capacity without enough fleet. IB got the 3 frames LEVEL operated in Paris-Orly as LEVEL France. The remaining three who still are in Madrid will be retrofitted to IB cabin featuring “proper Business Product”

avi8 wrote:

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

Has IB been offering refunds to those passengers?

lesfalls wrote:

avi8 wrote:

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

Has IB been offering refunds to those passengers?

Would be interesting to know how they deal with that. I worked in the fares department of a tour operator for few years and from time to time BA would downgrade pax from Club World to World Traveller plus. When the passenger asked for a refund in the difference in fare, BA would take the World Traveller Plus fare that was available to purchase on the day of travel and take that from the fare the pax paid. Well often we had advance purchase World Traveller Plus and Club world fares. So they would take the world traveller plus fare that was available to buy on the day of travel (usually a high fare) from the discounted Club World fare and refund the difference. This meant that that the pax didn't get much of a refund and actually ended up paying a fare that was much higher than they would if they booked a World traveller Plus fare.



Alex

It’s official, TAAG Angola will launch 2 weekly Luanda-Madrid. Tickets are Already for sale on their website.
Good news for connectivity between MAD-Africa market, as the only destination available right now from MAD to sub saharian africa is Dakar. Hopefully with the arrivals of A321XLR from Iberia we could see potential new openings such as JNB, ACC, ABJ, LOS, DLA, SSG, CKY….

Source: https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/04/ta ... -a-espana/

When booking/flying with Binter in the Canaries, the airline seems to make a big thing that flights are operated by Canarias. Checking the aircraft reg, it seems to always be associated with Binter. Why is Binter therefore making noise to say they operate their own flights ? AFAIK, operating (almost) everything by NAYSA ended years ago... so presumably it should no longer be a big deal.

Is there something I'm missing or some major event in the past which caused great upset about using ACMI aircraft in the Canaries ?

Binter will launch Florence, Valladolid, Menorca, Ponta Delgada and Fez from Gran Canaria next summer

richcandy wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

avi8 wrote:

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

Has IB been offering refunds to those passengers?

Would be interesting to know how they deal with that. I worked in the fares department of a tour operator for few years and from time to time BA would downgrade pax from Club World to World Traveller plus. When the passenger asked for a refund in the difference in fare, BA would take the World Traveller Plus fare that was available to purchase on the day of travel and take that from the fare the pax paid. Well often we had advance purchase World Traveller Plus and Club world fares. So they would take the world traveller plus fare that was available to buy on the day of travel (usually a high fare) from the discounted Club World fare and refund the difference. This meant that that the pax didn't get much of a refund and actually ended up paying a fare that was much higher than they would if they booked a World traveller Plus fare.



That was my experience with BA indeed. got $89 each passenger when we got downgraded...
I am not sure what IB does as I have only been upgraded with them (amazingly) I have heard of people who had the opposite experience: Were booked on LEVEL Premium, aircraft got switched to an IB plane and they got IB Business Class for no extra charge (lucky!)

aviator2000 wrote:

Binter will launch Florence, Valladolid, Menorca, Ponta Delgada and Fez from Gran Canaria next summer

Binter are building up a pretty nice route network .

davidjohnson6 wrote:

When booking/flying with Binter in the Canaries, the airline seems to make a big thing that flights are operated by Canarias. Checking the aircraft reg, it seems to always be associated with Binter.

Legally mandatory for BINTER, as flights are op. by CANAIR-CANARIAS AIRLINES COMPAÑIA DE AVIACION, ICAO RSC.

debonair wrote:

davidjohnson6 wrote:

When booking/flying with Binter in the Canaries, the airline seems to make a big thing that flights are operated by Canarias. Checking the aircraft reg, it seems to always be associated with Binter.

Legally mandatory for BINTER, as flights are op. by CANAIR-CANARIAS AIRLINES COMPAÑIA DE AVIACION, ICAO RSC.

Many thanks for your info - but what's the relationship between Binter and Canair ? Is Binter legally an airline and does it have a legally separate fleet of aircraft ? I'm just trying to understand what the setup is around this...

Yes, BINTER Canarias is an independant airline with own AOC and 14 ATR72 in operation, leasing in additional capacity from CANAIR. However, AFAIK, CANAIR is member of the BINTER Group with lower operating costs and administration, likewise LH and EW.

a350lover wrote:

Iberia recovering capacity without enough fleet. IB got the 3 frames LEVEL operated in Paris-Orly as LEVEL France. The remaining three who still are in Madrid will be retrofitted to IB cabin featuring “proper Business Product”

Guess same problem here with AirEuropa! UX will lease in 4 B787-8/9 from Norse Atlantic, which fleet is equipped with Premium Economy only, no BizClass! https://flynorse.com/announcements/nors ... reamliners

aviator2000 wrote:

Binter will launch Florence, Valladolid, Menorca, Ponta Delgada and Fez from Gran Canaria next summer

Gran Canaria - Menorca is def strange. I wonder what could be the market there. Menorca is a very niche beach market for Spaniards. Are they expecting people in Canarias to take a beach holiday in Menorca? On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of passengers on those Canary Islands - Balearics get the 75% discount.

Gran Canaria - Ibiza would look to me like a more realistic market.

avi8 wrote:

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

EC-MOU, EC-MOY and EC-MYA are A332 from Level Spain (operated by IB’s metal & crews under a kind of wet-lease agreement with Level). These frames are back in Madrid and they joined the IB operation. So, even if they have Level’s livery and cabin, they are operating IB flights. By the end of the year they will be retrofitted with the IB cabin (and hopefully get the IB livery as well), leaving behind the Level operations.

Level Spain is operating with the aircrafts from Level France, that will still be operated by IB crews on behalf of Level.

So… un short: you may notice some Level aircrafts out of MAD but because these aircrafts are now part of the IB network, even if they still carry the livery and cabin of their their old operator.

Don't know if this comes as a surprise here but MAD-BOG was the 9th busiest route in the world per ASMs in March 2022. This has been achieved upon the reinstatement of AV's third daily flight, and before the entry of Plus Ultra to the market. Don't know if it's a first for Spain (being in the top 10 per ASMs on an international route). It certainly is for Colombia.

https://simpleflying.com/worlds-busiest-routes/

Currently the route is flown:

3x daily by AV on 787-8
2x daily by IB on A359
1x daily by UX on 787-8

And starting in July
4x weekly Plus Ultra on A343/A346

Iberojet will start codeshare with AirEuropa

https://www.hosteltur.com/151142_iberoj ... uropa.html

debonair wrote:

Iberojet will start codeshare with AirEuropa

https://www.hosteltur.com/151142_iberoj ... uropa.html

In the article it says an Interline. It could develop into a codeshare at a later point making the deal quite significant.

Well, that explains why my mum's flight to BRU with UX is operaed by Iberojet. I thought it was a wetlease agreement, not a codeshare!

GatoVolador wrote:

avi8 wrote:

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

EC-MOU, EC-MOY and EC-MYA are A332 from Level Spain (operated by IB’s metal & crews under a kind of wet-lease agreement with Level). These frames are back in Madrid and they joined the IB operation. So, even if they have Level’s livery and cabin, they are operating IB flights. By the end of the year they will be retrofitted with the IB cabin (and hopefully get the IB livery as well), leaving behind the Level operations.

Level Spain is operating with the aircrafts from Level France, that will still be operated by IB crews on behalf of Level.

So… un short: you may notice some Level aircrafts out of MAD but because these aircrafts are now part of the IB network, even if they still carry the livery and cabin of their their old operator.

Will these birds carry the "improved" interiors that they have announced will come with the new A350s?

himarhernandez wrote:

GatoVolador wrote:

avi8 wrote:

Any idea why LEVEL has been operating flights from MAD? Many flights are sold as iberia and I’ve heard many complaints of purchasing “Business Class” only to get a premium economy service.

EC-MOU, EC-MOY and EC-MYA are A332 from Level Spain (operated by IB’s metal & crews under a kind of wet-lease agreement with Level). These frames are back in Madrid and they joined the IB operation. So, even if they have Level’s livery and cabin, they are operating IB flights. By the end of the year they will be retrofitted with the IB cabin (and hopefully get the IB livery as well), leaving behind the Level operations.

Level Spain is operating with the aircrafts from Level France, that will still be operated by IB crews on behalf of Level.

So… un short: you may notice some Level aircrafts out of MAD but because these aircrafts are now part of the IB network, even if they still carry the livery and cabin of their their old operator.

Will these birds carry the "improved" interiors that they have announced will come with the new A350s?

They will. That’s why the retrofit process will not take place now but by the end of the year instead.

Embajador3 wrote:

Well, that explains why my mum's flight to BRU with UX is operaed by Iberojet. I thought it was a wetlease agreement, not a codeshare!

Hola! After all these problems with the take-over of IAG, COVID-19 etc. it seems UX will eventually prosper again!
Not only 4 B787 from Norse Atlantic will join the fleet, but also some B737. But, after BA announced a MAD crew base, it will be definetly more difficult to find well trained crews for these additional airframes.

EC-NVO ex Ryanair
EC-NVP/Q ex Ryanair/Ukraine Int.
EC-NVJ ex TUI AIRWAYS
EC-NUY/Z ex Malindo Air

source: https://www.planespotters.net

What is the point of so many new charter/leisure airlines again in MAD? This is starting to look like the late 2000s with Air Madrid, Futura, Air Comet or Quantum Air that all went under with the crisis. And of course Spanair.

So now there are:

Plus Ultra (funded by former Air Madrid management!): long-haul to VFR Latin American destinations

Iberojet (merge of Orbest - former Iberworld - and Evelop) long-haul to holiday Caribbean destinations (+Mauritius) and now also short-haul

Wamos Air (former Pullmantur Air) long-haul to holiday Caribbean destinations

World2fly (owned by Iberostar) long-haul to holiday Caribbean destinations and they plan also US, Seychelles, Mauritius, etc.

I can't see the point of all that when more consolidation is needed and Air Europa is not in good shape. I feel that whenever (if) there is an economic slowdown, it will be 2010s all over again. Air Europa will be the new Spanair, and most of those niche carriers will disappear again.

debonair wrote:

Embajador3 wrote:

Well, that explains why my mum's flight to BRU with UX is operaed by Iberojet. I thought it was a wetlease agreement, not a codeshare!

Hola! After all these problems with the take-over of IAG, COVID-19 etc. it seems UX will eventually prosper again!
Not only 4 B787 from Norse Atlantic will join the fleet, but also some B737. But, after BA announced a MAD crew base, it will be definetly more difficult to find well trained crews for these additional airframes.

EC-NVO ex Ryanair
EC-NVP/Q ex Ryanair/Ukraine Int.
EC-NVJ ex TUI AIRWAYS
EC-NUY/Z ex Malindo Air

source: https://www.planespotters.net

Unfortunately unemployment is still high in Spain so it should not pose a problem

lesfalls wrote:

debonair wrote:

Iberojet will start codeshare with AirEuropa

https://www.hosteltur.com/151142_iberoj ... uropa.html

In the article it says an Interline. It could develop into a codeshare at a later point making the deal quite significant.

I am Skyteam Elite Plus member - if I buy an Air Europa coded fliight operated by Evelop (which I guess is actually Iberojet?) - would any of my benefits transfer? Baggage, lounge etc? This is intra-Schengen.

Asiana Airlines has confirmed today it will be returning to Barcelona, as well as a handful of other European destinations by July.

aviator2000 wrote:

Asiana Airlines has confirmed today it will be returning to Barcelona, as well as a handful of other European destinations by July.

So as from September there'll be two airlines flying BCN-SEL (ASIANA 777, KOREAN 787) but zero airlines flying MAD-SEL

KE used to fly to MAD before COVID, I believe daily on a 777

jmmadrid wrote:

aviator2000 wrote:

Asiana Airlines has confirmed today it will be returning to Barcelona, as well as a handful of other European destinations by July.

So as from September there'll be two airlines flying BCN-SEL (ASIANA 777, KOREAN 787) but zero airlines flying MAD-SEL

KE used to fly to MAD before COVID, I believe daily on a 777

I am sceptical as to if Korean Air will resume BCN with all the merger thing going on with Asiana. I would see them relaunching MAD before.

Has anybody noticed how much Air Europa Express shrank during the pandemic? They are now operating only 3xEmb195LR and 2xATR72/500 (another ATR72/500 EC-MSN, has been sitting on a remote stand minus engine no.1 for a couple of months already).

Source: https://www.airfleets.es/flottecie/Air% ... xpress.htm

AENA has released its numbers for April 2022, the first summer season month after COVID and Easter in Europe.

https://www.aena.es/es/estadisticas/inf ... uales.html

Traffic in April was only 11.8% below April 2019 numbers.

However some airports have beaten their April records, like SCQ (Santiago de Compostela) +15.5% or MAH (Menorca) +32.9%.

On the other hand GRO (Girona) is -42.8%, LCG (A Coruña) -31.1%, GRX (Granada) -26.9% and VGO (Vigo) -22.7% are amongst the worst performers.

SCQ83 wrote:

AENA has released its numbers for April 2022, the first summer season month after COVID and Easter in Europe.

https://www.aena.es/es/estadisticas/inf ... uales.html

Traffic in April was only 11.8% below April 2019 numbers.

However some airports have beaten their April records, like SCQ (Santiago de Compostela) +15.5% or MAH (Menorca) +32.9%.

On the other hand GRO (Girona) is -42.8%, LCG (A Coruña) -31.1%, GRX (Granada) -26.9% and VGO (Vigo) -22.7% are amongst the worst performers.

Main airports in the country (Madrid, Barcelona, Palma) are all still on negative numbers. I expect they will reach breakeven this summer.

Some hints to IB's new onboard improvements starting June 30th. Wish they would keep their downtown Madrid experience open through the summer
https://grupo.iberia.es/news/17052022/i ... d?ref=Home
https://espacio.iberia.com/

Jerez gets a new London Link

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220524-vyjul22lgw

Vueling in July 2022 plans further network expansion at London Gatwick, as the airline schedules additional 2 routes to Spain: Genoa and Jerez de la Frontera. Planned schedule as follows.

London Gatwick – Jerez de la Frontera eff 01JUL22 2 weekly A320
VY6630 LGW0640 – 1025XRY 320 1
VY6630 LGW1655 – 2040XRY 320 5

VY6631 XRY1100 – 1255KGW 320 1
VY6631 XRY2115 – 2310KGW 320 5

AstanaMagic wrote:

Jerez gets a new London Link

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220524-vyjul22lgw

Vueling in July 2022 plans further network expansion at London Gatwick, as the airline schedules additional 2 routes to Spain: Genoa and Jerez de la Frontera. Planned schedule as follows.

London Gatwick – Jerez de la Frontera eff 01JUL22 2 weekly A320
VY6630 LGW0640 – 1025XRY 320 1
VY6630 LGW1655 – 2040XRY 320 5

VY6631 XRY1100 – 1255KGW 320 1
VY6631 XRY2115 – 2310KGW 320 5

Genoa isn’t Spain. In that case only Jerez.

Binter have announced a new codeshare agreement with Azores Airlines from July to September from LPA to
New York and Boston. The fares include free onward connections to other Canary Islands.

WamosAir will end all scheduled operations, passengers will be rebooked onto Iberojet:

https://www.hosteltur.com/151822_asi-qu ... s-air.html

debonair wrote:

WamosAir will end all scheduled operations, passengers will be rebooked onto Iberojet:

https://www.hosteltur.com/151822_asi-qu ... s-air.html

My comment above 1 month ago

SCQ83 wrote:

What is the point of so many new charter/leisure airlines again in MAD? This is starting to look like the late 2000s with Air Madrid, Futura, Air Comet or Quantum Air that all went under with the crisis. And of course Spanair.

So now there are:

Plus Ultra (funded by former Air Madrid management!): long-haul to VFR Latin American destinations

Iberojet (merge of Orbest - former Iberworld - and Evelop) long-haul to holiday Caribbean destinations (+Mauritius) and now also short-haul

Wamos Air (former Pullmantur Air) long-haul to holiday Caribbean destinations

World2fly (owned by Iberostar) long-haul to holiday Caribbean destinations and they plan also US, Seychelles, Mauritius, etc.

I can't see the point of all that when more consolidation is needed and Air Europa is not in good shape. I feel that whenever (if) there is an economic slowdown, it will be 2010s all over again. Air Europa will be the new Spanair, and most of those niche carriers will disappear again.

@SCQ83 mea culpa!

In related news, Plus Ultra will join the charter/leisure market in cooperation with SOLTOUR to Samana/DR.
https://www.preferente.com/noticias-de- ... 18307.html

AENA has released traffic data for May 2022.

Traffic 9.6% down compared to May 2019 and still 19.9% down compared to January-May 2019.

https://www.aena.es/es/estadisticas/inf ... uales.html

SCQ has had its best month ever. And we are not even in peak season.

Ryanair's cabin crew from all its Spanish bases will go on strike for six days (24, 25, 26, 30 june and 1, 2 july) coinciding with the end of the school year and the start of the summer holidays for many spaniards. This will worsen even more the situation at the airports, specially in the big ones such as Madrid, Barcelona and Palma, where big queues have been forming in recent weeks due to the international arrivals checkpoints being understaffed. All in all, a bad entry in the busy summer period which has been mainly caused by low staffing in both companies and govt organisations.

https://beteve.cat/mobilitat/vaga-ryana ... ts-cabina/

Hainan to launch CHONGQING – MADRID LATE-JUNE 2022 . One weekly flights on Chuesdays.
https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220621-hujun22mad

Air Nostrum has extended its summer routes from Lanzarote, with regular flights to four Spanish cities.

https://gazettelife.com/news/new-routes ... -mainland/

Good news for ACE peninsular flights .

I noticed that Air Nostrum seems to have set up a Maltese-registered subsidiary airline called Mel Air with 3 ATR 72s to operate flights to/from Melilla. Is this just part of the trend amongst EU airlines (eg Ryanair) to set up Maltese subsidiaries for (I presume) a tax saving, or is there something more to this ?
I am surprised the Spanish unions have not made a fuss about this...or have they ?

Tourism stats are coming in from Spain and Lanzarote have released theirs for May .


The tourist figures for May 2022 are as follows:

Spain – 24,247

Germany – 15,746

Belgium – 2,974

France – 15,079

Netherlands – 23,253

Ireland – 7,485

Italy – 6,971

Nordic Countries – 2,534

United Kingdom – 113,721

Other – 9,244

TOTAL (all) – 221,255

https://gazettelife.com/news/lanzarote- ... -may-2022/

OA260 wrote:

Air Nostrum has extended its summer routes from Lanzarote, with regular flights to four Spanish cities.

https://gazettelife.com/news/new-routes ... -mainland/

Good news for ACE peninsular flights .

Vigo-Lanzarote has been for sale for months. It is part of the economic agreement the city of Vigo has with Air Nostrum, where they city pays Air Nostrum (I think 1 million/year) to fly to Ibiza, Lanzarote or Menorca for a few weeks in summer only God knows why.

A route Air Nostrum could test is ACE-SCQ in peak summer. They also fly SCQ-TFN and SCQ-LPA in July/August, Easter and Christmas when there is more demand, despite Ryanair and Vueling being both daily or almost daily to Tenerife and Gran Canaria. It is an interesting strategy because it allows to complement Vueling/Ryanair in times of high demand (and high prices) by offering a more "exclusive" product.

SCQ-ACE had 88.000 passengers in 2019 and I wouldn't be surprised this year it will cross the 100k mark (with 8 weekly flights IN summer between Ryanair and Vueling, and 6 for the coming winter season).

SCQ83 wrote:

A route Air Nostrum could test is ACE-SCQ in peak summer.

I really doubt a village like Santiago can artificially handle more passengers that it currently does, as the dozens of millions of € every year almost every public regional administrations and “tourism foundations” have dumped for decades (although conveniently dressed up as legit) on LCCs for SCQ (including a new terminal / aka new airport as the old one stays empty and functional) to create a “city image” breaking the news with “atonishing success” (cof) have a limited range and won’t be able to stand forever.

A long waited political change will probably burst the bubble and allow the economic actors to drive fair competition and service in Galicia. SCQ has an expiration date for anything else than ultra-LCCs and political vanity. One more failed project in the village I’m afraid.

Jayafe wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

A route Air Nostrum could test is ACE-SCQ in peak summer.

I really doubt a village like Santiago can artificially handle more passengers that it currently does, as the dozens of millions of € every year almost every public regional administrations and “tourism foundations” have dumped for decades (although conveniently dressed up as legit) on LCCs for SCQ (including a new terminal / aka new airport as the old one stays empty and functional) to create a “city image” breaking the news with “atonishing success” (cof) have a limited range and won’t be able to stand forever.

A long waited political change will probably burst the bubble and allow the economic actors to drive fair competition and service in Galicia. SCQ has an expiration date for anything else than ultra-LCCs and political vanity. One more failed project in the village I’m afraid.

Skyscrapercity is a better place to discuss those conspiracy theories.

That "village" of Santiago is the number one tourist destination in Northern Spain (and this year a record number of tourists). Ibiza is also a "village" and I don't think anyone doubts that it has way more demand than Valladolid or Vigo.

In any case I will wait here for the "SCQ bubble" to burst. In the meantime, traffic in LCG and VGO is in free fall despite their respective city councils subsidising routes to the Canary or Balearic Islands (who knows what the economic justification for this is). Or LCG subsidising Orly and Gatwick with Vueling with catastrophic load factors (around 30% for Paris). Whereas Santiago has 3 operators to Paris and Vueling is monthly around 70-80% despite competing with Transavia and Ryanair and SCQ-CDG having significantly higher fares than LCG-ORY. Etc etc etc

Happy to revive this post in a couple of years.

Air Nostrum will also be launching Pamplona-Barcelona next September with 3 weekly flights.

https://www.pamplonaactual.com/articulo ... 06056.html

From September the airline will also be launching Valencia-Barcelona. I wonder how this makes sense in the current context where we are trying to eliminate those shorter journeys that can be made by train/car. On the other hand, I believe that Spain's centrally planned railway network where all lines go through Madrid doesn't help in this aspect.