Welcome to the Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW/DAL) Aviation thread - 2022 edition. Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the 2021 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456103

Southwest has cancelled all flights into and out of DAL tomorrow ( 3Feb 22) due to the ice storm moving in.
Local news said is also cancelling lots of flights at DFW

Looking more and more likely that tomorrow will be a snow event and not an ice event, so this may have been premature, but I do understand it.
The Ice portion is likely between 6pm to midnight tonight. The very latest report just said the snow will start around 3am and end at 1pm.

It’s going to get dicey now.

KDFW 030102Z 36016G25KT 4SM RA BR SCT008 BKN044 OVC050 00/M01

Rain is still coming down heavy and temperature has reached freezing.

https://aviationweather.gov/metar/data?ids=KDFW&format=raw&date=&hours=0&taf=on

Edit: KDFW 030120Z 36016KT 4SM -FZRA BR SCT009 BKN022 OVC050 00/M01 A2999 RMK AO2 RAE20FZRAB20

Turned out to be a non event. Could have operated the vast majority of flights today.

Turned out to be a non event. Could have operated the vast majority of flights today.

UpNAWAy wrote:

Turned out to be a non event. Could have operated the vast majority of flights today.

Um, I'm not so sure about that. I don't think these flights would be diverting if it was a non-event...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /PHNL/KORD
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /PHOG/KORD
Both HNL and OGG-DFW diverting all the way up to Chicago. Plus IAH got some DFW diversions...
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS752
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KRDU/KIAH
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL ... /KMIA/KIAH

UpNAWAy wrote:

Turned out to be a non event. Could have operated the vast majority of flights today.

DFW Airport Closed - 705am to 11am local time
DFW Ground Stop - 814am to 11am local time

https://nasstatus.faa.gov/

Houston is taking a lot of AA diversions from DFW! What happened on the ground at DFW? I assume it’s the storm, but did everything I’ve over unexpectedly?

Oilman wrote:

Houston is taking a lot of AA diversions from DFW! What happened on the ground at DFW? I assume it’s the storm, but did everything I’ve over unexpectedly?

I live just north of downtown and south of DAL. It’s very icy. Lots of closures/cancellations. DART isn’t operating today. My office was originally going to open at 10:00 but was just notified we’re closed today.

After living in Amarillo for 13 and moving here in October, it’s very apparent that the DFW area is much less equipped to deal with winter weather. Though ice is ice no matter where you are.

AMALH747430 wrote:

Oilman wrote:

Houston is taking a lot of AA diversions from DFW! What happened on the ground at DFW? I assume it’s the storm, but did everything I’ve over unexpectedly?

I live just north of downtown and south of DAL. It’s very icy. Lots of closures/cancellations. DART isn’t operating today. My office was originally going to open at 10:00 but was just notified we’re closed today.

After living in Amarillo for 13 and moving here in October, it’s very apparent that the DFW area is much less equipped to deal with winter weather. Though ice is ice no matter where you are.

I’m staying just north of DFW at the moment. Watching hotel guests slide around the parking lot for fun. Roads are mostly empty. First salt truck I’ve seen all morning just went by. Snow/ice pellets just started falling again.

Saw FB post from DFW couple hours ago they lost the runways & were plowing again to get the field open.

Thinking Southwest made good call to cancel all flights at DAL today

I live between the two airports and can agree with the previous posts. Things are very quiet around here, from a vehicular traffic and aircraft traffic standpoint. It seems to me as if less people try to get to work on snowy days now that more people are working from home due to Covid.

Sooner787 wrote:

Saw FB post from DFW couple hours ago they lost the runways & were plowing again to get the field open.

Thinking Southwest made good call to cancel all flights at DAL today

There was a few hour break this morning, but now snow is really coming down again. Only see AA127 out de-icing. Otherwise FlightRadar24 is quiet.

KDFW 031634Z 33018G24KT 3/4SM R17C/4000V5000FT SN BKN018 BKN033 OVC044 M06/M07 A3022

https://aviationweather.gov/metar/data?ids=KDFW&format=raw&date=&hours=0&taf=on

Last departure was FedEx nearly 9 hours ago.
https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KDFW

One cargo jet landed at about 10:30, and the one open runway was closed again right afterwards as the snow has picked up.

After an afternoon of mostly smooth ops, looks like DFW is down again…lots of planes now diverting to SAT

747fan wrote:

UpNAWAy wrote:

Turned out to be a non event. Could have operated the vast majority of flights today.

How do you figure that ?

AWACSooner wrote:

After an afternoon of mostly smooth ops, looks like DFW is down again…lots of planes now diverting to SAT

Looks like Love Field is open, Southwest trying to get their operation back up, but Dallas roads are iced over to the point
where a Zamboni is the preferred method of getting around.

Sooner787 wrote:

AWACSooner wrote:

After an afternoon of mostly smooth ops, looks like DFW is down again…lots of planes now diverting to SAT

Looks like Love Field is open, Southwest trying to get their operation back up, but Dallas roads are iced over to the point
where a Zamboni is the preferred method of getting around.

Well, Alaska has pulled the plug on another day of Love Field ops…canceled all flights today including my 6 pm to SEA…so much for a weekend daddy/daughter trip to the Bay.

Here is the current breakdown of WN nonstop service out of DAL in April 2022 after the cuts recently made by WN:
4x ABQ, 3x AMA, 4x ATL, 8x AUS, 4x BWI, 2x BHM, 1x CHS, 1x CLT, 6x MDW, 4x ORD, 3x COS, 1x CMH, 8x DEN, 1x VPS, 4x ELP, 2x FLL, 5x IAH, 10x HOU, 1x IND, 5x MCI, 6x LAS, 2x LIT, 1x LGB, 4x LAX, 5x LBB, 1x MEM, 1x MIA, 5x MAF, 1x MKE, 6x BNA, 7x MSY, 4x LGA, 2x OAK, 1x OMA, 1x ONT, 1x SNA, 5x MCO, 2x ECP, 1x PNS, 8x PHX, 1x RDU, 1x SMF, 5x STL, 2x SLC, 9x SAT, 3x SAN, 2x SJC, 1x SAV, 3x TPA, 3x TUL, 5x DCA

Changes to WN April 2022 schedule out of DAL since 9/16/2021 schedule extension:

• DAL-ABQ/AMA/ATL/MDW/DEN/FLL/IAH/LAS/LAX/MIA/MCO/SAN/TPA down 1x daily nonstop from original April 2022 schedule
• DAL-BUR/HRL dropped through 6/5/2022 but daily DAL-BUR/HRL nonstop service is still scheduled to resume on 6/5/2022
• DAL-PIT dropped through 6/5/2022 but DAL-PIT nonstop service is still scheduled to resume on Sundays through Fridays starting on 6/5/2022
• DAL-SDF/MSP dropped through end of schedule
• DAL-SAT up 1x daily nonstop from original April 2022 schedule
• DAL-RSW/SRQ reduced to Saturday-only
• WN down to 176 daily departures out of DAL from the 195 daily departures out of DAL that WN was originally planning on operating in April 2022

Why American Airlines pushed AA48(DFW-CDG) departure to 9PM from 5PM. Looks like the change is effective starting April 1

Quick DFW Updates:

-Turkish Airlines' IST-DFW will go daily for the summer, starting on May 6th.
-Air Canada will go double daily on Montreal-DFW starting later in the Summer.
-Air France restarted Paris-DFW service this past weekend.
-Finnair has also commenced Helsinki-DFW service, and their flight attendant choir sang "Deep in the Heart of Texas" to celebrate: https://twitter.com/DFWAirport/status/1 ... 2690931717

Source DFW Airport Twitter: https://twitter.com/dfwairport

Does that make 9 cities in Europe served nonstop this summer then?

ubeema wrote:

Why American Airlines pushed AA48(DFW-CDG) departure to 9PM from 5PM. Looks like the change is effective starting April 1

Better aircraft utilisation in CDG?

In March, AA48 and AA49 is like:
17:05-09:15+1 turn around in CDG 11:15-14:55
from ORD AA150 and AA151 is like:
18:35-09:25+1 turn around in CDG 16:05-18:20

Now, AA48 arrives in CDG and will turn around as AA151
21:00-13:00+1 in CDG to be AA151 16:00-18:00 to ORD
AA150 from ORD will turn around as AA49
18:00-09:00+1 in CDG to be AA49 11:00-14:30 (after 5th April, before 5th April it is 12:00-15:30)

With this change, the aircraft turn around in CDG are reduced from 8 hours 40 mins to 5 hours for 2 of the B789s. And the long 6 hours 40 mins for ORD-CDG rotation ground time in CDG is reduced to 3 hours, assuming a lot of savings in parking fees and other operational costs.

chonetsao wrote:

ubeema wrote:

Why American Airlines pushed AA48(DFW-CDG) departure to 9PM from 5PM. Looks like the change is effective starting April 1

Better aircraft utilisation in CDG?

In March, AA48 and AA49 is like:
17:05-09:15+1 turn around in CDG 11:15-14:55
from ORD AA150 and AA151 is like:
18:35-09:25+1 turn around in CDG 16:05-18:20

Now, AA48 arrives in CDG and will turn around as AA151
21:00-13:00+1 in CDG to be AA151 16:00-18:00 to ORD
AA150 from ORD will turn around as AA49
18:00-09:00+1 in CDG to be AA49 11:00-14:30 (after 5th April, before 5th April it is 12:00-15:30)

With this change, the aircraft turn around in CDG are reduced from 8 hours 40 mins to 5 hours for 2 of the B789s. And the long 6 hours 40 mins for ORD-CDG rotation ground time in CDG is reduced to 3 hours, assuming a lot of savings in parking fees and other operational costs.

Makes a lot of sense. Thanks. I flew AA48 on 4/1, Have to say it’s kinda nice to have a full day at work and get on your flight. Plus terminal D dfw airport was quite empty. Arrived at airport at 7:45p for a takeoff at 9:15p

If Jetblue winds up taking in Spirit would that leave room for a new ULCC to enter DFW? Someone like Allegiant?

Brandon757 wrote:

If Jetblue winds up taking in Spirit would that leave room for a new ULCC to enter DFW? Someone like Allegiant?

DFW really isnt Allegiant's type of airport. I think theyd like to get into the DFW area, but it would have to be something like FTW or TKI. They typically dont go into massive hub airports.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Brandon757 wrote:

If Jetblue winds up taking in Spirit would that leave room for a new ULCC to enter DFW? Someone like Allegiant?

DFW really isnt Allegiant's type of airport. I think theyd like to get into the DFW area, but it would have to be something like FTW or TKI. They typically dont go into massive hub airports.

Heard rumors that Allegiant might start service from Ft Worth Meacham , but still waiting .

I'm a bit sad that AC dropped DFWYVR, as this is the 2nd time that this has happened (first time was in 2001). my guess is that it was highly dependent on APAC connecting traffic out of YVR, which is obviously in a bad place. But even in the summertime, with cruise traffic, is there not room for even a sub-daily A220? I guess it is a high opportunity cost route with 4+ hr legs in each direction, which is utilization-intensive for them.

Sooner787 wrote:

Heard rumors that Allegiant might start service from Ft Worth Meacham , but still waiting .

Since the North side of Fort Worth is growing by leaps and bounds I would like to see Allegiant build their own terminal or Propeller Investments build one for them at Fort Worth Alliance. With the major expansion of IH35W and the TX170 toll lanes this makes perfect sense.

freakyrat wrote:

Sooner787 wrote:

Heard rumors that Allegiant might start service from Ft Worth Meacham , but still waiting .

Since the North side of Fort Worth is growing by leaps and bounds I would like to see Allegiant build their own terminal or Propeller Investments build one for them at Fort Worth Alliance. With the major expansion of IH35W and the TX170 toll lanes this makes perfect sense.

I would love for a service like the prior Mesa flights from HOU to FTW to restart. I used it often but very little adverts for it back in the day. I go to FTW often enough and hate using DFW and DAL is not an option. FTW has potential if done right IMO.

freakyrat wrote:

Sooner787 wrote:

Heard rumors that Allegiant might start service from Ft Worth Meacham , but still waiting .

Since the North side of Fort Worth is growing by leaps and bounds I would like to see Allegiant build their own terminal or Propeller Investments build one for them at Fort Worth Alliance. With the major expansion of IH35W and the TX170 toll lanes this makes perfect sense.

I agree, I could see flights to Florida and maybe a daily to Houston. and Lax.

And if Fort Worth does not work out do not forget Addison's airport.

william wrote:

freakyrat wrote:

Sooner787 wrote:

Heard rumors that Allegiant might start service from Ft Worth Meacham , but still waiting .

Since the North side of Fort Worth is growing by leaps and bounds I would like to see Allegiant build their own terminal or Propeller Investments build one for them at Fort Worth Alliance. With the major expansion of IH35W and the TX170 toll lanes this makes perfect sense.

I agree, I could see flights to Florida and maybe a daily to Houston. and Lax.

And if Fort Worth does not work out do not forget Addison's airport.

There’s really not room for a terminal and parking unless they start taking down buildings at Addison’s airport. They would need to reconfigure the arrival and departure procedures for Love and DFW since that’s three airports in close range of each other. They have expressed interest of serving FTW airport in the past but was shut down due to the Wright Amendment legal fight

Would the City of Fort Worth be stepping on toes by building up Alliance or Meacham to airline service? DFW is a joint venture between Dallas and Fort Worth, and any new commercial airport in the western metro would be in the disinterest of DFW and therefor Dallas. Could Dallas put a stop to these plans?

LAXdude1023 wrote:

Brandon757 wrote:

If Jetblue winds up taking in Spirit would that leave room for a new ULCC to enter DFW? Someone like Allegiant?

DFW really isnt Allegiant's type of airport. I think theyd like to get into the DFW area, but it would have to be something like FTW or TKI. They typically dont go into massive hub airports.

Typically but not always the case. Allegiant flies to DEN, MSP, EWR, LAX and recently started PHX. So it wouldn’t totally be a shock if they added DFW service as it’s more centralized for the metroplex.

MLIAA wrote:

Would the City of Fort Worth be stepping on toes by building up Alliance or Meacham to airline service? DFW is a joint venture between Dallas and Fort Worth, and any new commercial airport in the western metro would be in the disinterest of DFW and therefor Dallas. Could Dallas put a stop to these plans?

The problem is North Fort Worth is growing by leaps and bounds and even the short drive to DFW or the drive to DAL is hard to do traffic wise. They are trying to build toll lanes on TX 170 through Roanoke and some of the lanes are blocked by barriers and trucks and other traffic snarl it up between IH35W and TX114. Traffic through Southlake on 114 gets congested to so service from AFW would be great.

freakyrat wrote:

MLIAA wrote:

Would the City of Fort Worth be stepping on toes by building up Alliance or Meacham to airline service? DFW is a joint venture between Dallas and Fort Worth, and any new commercial airport in the western metro would be in the disinterest of DFW and therefor Dallas. Could Dallas put a stop to these plans?

The problem is North Fort Worth is growing by leaps and bounds and even the short drive to DFW or the drive to DAL is hard to do traffic wise. They are trying to build toll lanes on TX 170 through Roanoke and some of the lanes are blocked by barriers and trucks and other traffic snarl it up between IH35W and TX114. Traffic through Southlake on 114 gets congested to so service from AFW would be great.

Pre-pandemic, I remember all of these stories and rumors about McKinney throwing their name in the hat for a third airport in the area. Has there been any recent discussions by city/county leaders about that? Being within 30 minutes of both Love and DFW, a third airport isn't really that big of a difference maker for myself. However, it would be interesting to see the Breeze/Avelo/Allegiant's of the world make a dent in the market via a new airport. Although, maybe that will happen with Spirit's pending acquisition.

MLIAA wrote:

Would the City of Fort Worth be stepping on toes by building up Alliance or Meacham to airline service? DFW is a joint venture between Dallas and Fort Worth, and any new commercial airport in the western metro would be in the disinterest of DFW and therefor Dallas. Could Dallas put a stop to these plans?

Significant demand would still be there for commercial flights out of DFW and DAL if commercial flights are added out of FTW or AFW.

AA and WN also both have significant FF bases in the Dallas/Fort Worth market to support flights out of DFW and DAL, even if commercial flights are added out of FTW or AFW.

Most of those traveling to the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex from other parts of the country would continue to fly into DFW or DAL if some commercial flights are added out of FTW or AFW due to more travelers being familiar with the options that are there to DFW or DAL.

DFW would also continue to have nonstop service to some destinations that wouldn't be served nonstop from DAL, FTW, or AFW if commercial flights are added out of FTW or AFW.

The 5-party agreement, which the City of Dallas had agreed to almost 16 years ago, allows airports other than DFW or DAL in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex to be opened up to commercial passenger air service after October 13, 2014.

khinstorff wrote:

However, it would be interesting to see the Breeze/Avelo/Allegiant's of the world make a dent in the market via a new airport. Although, maybe that will happen with Spirit's pending acquisition.

Most of the markets that MX (Breeze) would be serving nonstop from the Dallas/Fort Worth market already have WN service (although a few of the markets that MX might possibly serve nonstop from the Dallas/Fort Worth market don't currently have nonstop service out of DAL on WN).

There are only a few markets not currently served by WN such as XNA and HSV that currently have MX service.

DAL-BDL/PVD/RIC/SYR nonstop service could also be added by WN if enough demand is there for additional nonstop flights to BDL, PVD, RIC, and SYR from the Dallas/Fort Worth market.

While WN was maxed out at DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, WN has more than enough room at DAL to add Saturday nonstop flights to BDL, PVD, RIC, and SYR out of DAL with WN operating fewer daily departures out of DAL on Saturdays than on Sundays or weekdays (even prior to the cuts that WN has made at DAL in the last 2 years).

WN would also be able to more easily fill nonstop flights to BDL, PVD, RIC, or SYR from DAL than MX could to BDL, PVD, RIC, or SYR from the Dallas/Fort Worth market due to
(a) the significant FF base that WN has in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex and other Texas markets served by WN and
(b) the connecting opportunities that would be there to some other destinations in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Vegas, and Southern California through DAL on WN.

khinstorff wrote:

However, it would be interesting to see the Breeze/Avelo/Allegiant's of the world make a dent in the market via a new airport.

There is enough room at DAL to accommodate a few XP flights out of the 2 gates currently in use by AS at DAL with the significant cuts that AS has made at DAL.

AS is currently down to only 1x DAL-LAX, 1x DAL-SFO, and 1x DAL-SEA out of DAL from the 13 daily departures that AS was operating out of DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Looks like IB’s MAD-DFW service is going year-round. If I am not mistaken, it was announced as a seasonal service. (AY’s HEL-DFW was already announced as year round).

onwFan wrote:

Looks like IB’s MAD-DFW service is going year-round. If I am not mistaken, it was announced as a seasonal service. (AY’s HEL-DFW was already announced as year round).

When does Iberia service to DFW begin?

Sooner787 wrote:

onwFan wrote:

Looks like IB’s MAD-DFW service is going year-round. If I am not mistaken, it was announced as a seasonal service. (AY’s HEL-DFW was already announced as year round).

When does Iberia service to DFW begin?

This coming Wednesday, June 1st.

The DFW High-C gates are now open, presumably having opened overnight or this morning.

Saw a contingent of DFW personnel, including CEO Sean Donohue, checking it out, along with middle-management-looking AA folks following at a distance.

The gate podiums, floors, and finishes look very similar to the TRIP’d gates. One noticeable difference is the increased use of LCD screens. The gate podium FIDS screens are the same, but the previous gate number monuments are gone, replaced by a continuous inverse-L-shaped LCD that starts as a column next to the jet bridge door, up to the ceiling, then across the depth of the hold room out to the walking area of the concourse. It displays gate number, destination, and boarding time across the horizontal area, and the upgrade/standby info on the hold room side of the vertical. The other side of the vertical is displaying generic AA branding images.

All airport wayfinding signage is LCD screens, so hopefully the blue-decals-over-existing-signage days are numbered.

All told, it looked like a total win for DFW/AA. I was skeptical of the modular construction, but it looks exactly like it was built in-place.

One other thing, it appears that C33 will move to the expansion and become C35.

jplatts wrote:

There is enough room at DAL to accommodate a few XP flights out of the 2 gates currently in use by AS at DAL with the significant cuts that AS has made at DAL.

AS is currently down to only 1x DAL-LAX, 1x DAL-SFO, and 1x DAL-SEA out of DAL from the 13 daily departures that AS was operating out of DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

And I think DAL-LAX is going away soon as well.
AS at DAL is a farce.

TXRoadMan wrote:

The DFW High-C gates are now open, presumably having opened overnight or this morning.

Saw a contingent of DFW personnel, including CEO Sean Donohue, checking it out, along with middle-management-looking AA folks following at a distance.

The gate podiums, floors, and finishes look very similar to the TRIP’d gates. One noticeable difference is the increased use of LCD screens. The gate podium FIDS screens are the same, but the previous gate number monuments are gone, replaced by a continuous inverse-L-shaped LCD that starts as a column next to the jet bridge door, up to the ceiling, then across the depth of the hold room out to the walking area of the concourse. It displays gate number, destination, and boarding time across the horizontal area, and the upgrade/standby info on the hold room side of the vertical. The other side of the vertical is displaying generic AA branding images.

All airport wayfinding signage is LCD screens, so hopefully the blue-decals-over-existing-signage days are numbered.

All told, it looked like a total win for DFW/AA. I was skeptical of the modular construction, but it looks exactly like it was built in-place.

One other thing, it appears that C33 will move to the expansion and become C35.

Sounds more similar to the new low-D gates rather than the TRIP'd gates... right?

AAtakeMeAway wrote:

Sounds more similar to the new low-D gates rather than the TRIP'd gates... right?

Good call out, and probably so. I forgot about the new Low-D. I haven’t made it down there yet. Haven’t been close enough with enough time to check them out.

AWACSooner wrote:

jplatts wrote:

There is enough room at DAL to accommodate a few XP flights out of the 2 gates currently in use by AS at DAL with the significant cuts that AS has made at DAL.

AS is currently down to only 1x DAL-LAX, 1x DAL-SFO, and 1x DAL-SEA out of DAL from the 13 daily departures that AS was operating out of DAL prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

And I think DAL-LAX is going away soon as well.
AS at DAL is a farce.

Indeed - 1 late afternoon DAL-SFO 320, and 1 evening DAL-SEA 739. That's it. Wasn't there some chatter on here a few months ago about someone getting one or both of AS' DAL gates? WN seems the obvious candidate, however I wouldn't hate the idea of B6 getting them and leaving DFW.

TXRoadMan wrote:

AAtakeMeAway wrote:

Sounds more similar to the new low-D gates rather than the TRIP'd gates... right?

Good call out, and probably so. I forgot about the new Low-D. I haven’t made it down there yet. Haven’t been close enough with enough time to check them out.

It's a hike over there for sure ...

Did weather roll through DFW earlier? Looks like there’s nearly 40 AA planes on the ground in DFW without gates. There’s an AA only ground stop in effect.