Welcome to the San Francisco Bay Area Aviation thread - 2022 edition. Please continue to post your news and discussions below.

Link to the locked 2021 edition:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456137

I understand gate F15 in Terminal 3 (formerly gate 84 for those who remembered the old gate number scheme) is being modified to once again be a mainline, wide-body capable gate. For several years this gate has been used for up to 4 simultaneous UAX operations. Now that UA is pushing into Terminal 2 it appears there is operational ability to use F15 as a much needed wide-body gate.

That's great to hear. That always seemed like a less-than-ideal setup. Hopefully that also means fewer RJs and more mainline overall.

Here are the Q3 2021 PDEWs from SFO/OAK/SJC of top domestic markets that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO:
ATL-SFO/OAK/SJC - 751 (UA SFO-ATL nonstop service scheduled to resume in May 2022)
MSP-SFO/OAK/SJC - 654 (UA SFO-MSP nonstop service scheduled to resume in June 2022)
DTW-SFO/OAK/SJC - 512 (UA SFO-DTW nonstop service scheduled to resume in June 2022)
CLT-SFO/OAK/SJC - 317
STL-SFO/OAK/SJC - 232 (UA SFO-STL nonstop service scheduled to resume in June 2022)
MCI-SFO/OAK/SJC - 218 (UA SFO-MCI nonstop service scheduled to resume in June 2022)
MSY-SFO/OAK/SJC - 173 (UA SFO-MSY nonstop service scheduled to resume next month)
PIT-SFO/OAK/SJC - 172 (UA SFO-PIT nonstop service scheduled to resume in March 2022)
CMH-SFO/OAK/SJC - 165 (UA SFO-CMH nonstop service scheduled to resume in June 2022)
BDL-SFO/OAK/SJC - 162 (UA previously served BDL nonstop from SFO)
CVG-SFO/OAK/SJC - 142 (UA previously served CVG nonstop from SFO)
MKE-SFO/OAK/SJC - 126 (UA was originally planning on serving MKE nonstop from SFO in Summer 2020, but those plans were dropped due to the COVID-19 pandemic)
OMA-SFO/OAK/SJC - 97 (UA SFO-OMA nonstop service scheduled to resume in May 2022)
MEM-SFO/OAK/SJC - 81
ELP-SFO/OAK/SJC - 80 (within the range of E-175 regional jets)
JAX-SFO/OAK/SJC - 80
BUF-SFO/OAK/SJC - 78
ALB-SFO/OAK/SJC - 74
GRR-SFO/OAK/SJC - 72

Here are the Q3 2021 PDEW's from SFO/OAK/SJC of some other domestic markets within the range of regional jets that UA doesn't currently serve nonstop from SFO:
DSM-SFO/OAK/SJC - 61
TUL-SFO/OAK/SJC - 56
COS-SFO/OAK/SJC - 55

Is UA likely to add nonstop service out of SFO to any of the above destinations (apart from the ones that UA is already planning to resume out of SFO)? If so, which of the above routes is likely to be added by UA out of SFO?

A little surprised that SDF isn’t on that list.

BTW, I always enjoy your info jplatts

johnboy wrote:

A little surprised that SDF isn’t on that list.

SDF was actually one of the top markets traveled to from SFO/OAK/SJC in Q3 2021 that doesn't have nonstop service from the San Francisco Area, but SDF had lower PDEW's from SFO/OAK/SJC than CLT, BDL, CVG, MKE, MEM, ELP, JAX, BUF, ALB, or GRR in Q3 2021.

Is Boarding Area C still in use? Is it still going to be demolished?

As far as UA adding new domestic markets at SFO, lets remember the SFO hub has traditionally been quite reliant on international connectivity (some routes >50%).
So UA adding anything domestically these days is a higher risk as near entire plane must be supported based on domestic O&D as the benefit of any international connectivity has been reduced with the massive pullback of the Pacific network.
Another factor to consider is the precious little slack RJ capacity UA has in its network. To try a new market, something else likely must be pulled.

It looks like Iberia is no longer selling SFO-MAD.

psa1011 wrote:

It looks like Iberia is no longer selling SFO-MAD.

Did Iberia ever fly SFO-MAD with the 747-200 or the 747-400?

blacksoviet wrote:

psa1011 wrote:

It looks like Iberia is no longer selling SFO-MAD.

Did Iberia ever fly SFO-MAD with the 747-200 or the 747-400?

I only know if their service in the last few years with A330-200's. I don't think that they flew to SFO previously.

Re: AirTrain station for Harvey Milk Terminal One… are there plans to open the prior station or will it always be combined with Int’l Terminal A gates (I do notice the de-construction going on)?

It’s quite a schlep from there to TSA, and another schlep to actual gates.

johnboy wrote:

A little surprised that SDF isn’t on that list.

BTW, I always enjoy your info jplatts

Breeze must have read your post

Lol, I have family there so it’s personal

There are some defensive moves that both WN and UA could make in the San Francisco Bay Area to defend against possible MX adds out of SFO such as
(a) the return of WN OAK-CMH/SAT nonstop service,
(b) the addition of WN OAK-ORF/OKC/TPA/TUL nonstop service,
(c) the return of UA SFO-XNA nonstop service, and
(d) the addition of UA SFO-TUL nonstop service.

Both WN and UA have significant frequent flyer bases in the San Francisco Bay Area to support nonstop service to additional destinations out of the San Francisco Bay Area.

There would be some connecting opportunities to Hawaii from OKC, SAT, and TUL through OAK on WN if WN adds OAK-OKC/TUL nonstop service and WN re-adds OAK-SAT nonstop service.

There is a naval presence in both Hampton Roads and the San Francisco Bay Area (including in Alameda, which is near OAK) to support OAK-ORF nonstop service on WN.

TUL is one of the top remaining domestic destinations traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that isn't currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area, and UA would clearly have an advantage over MX on SFO-TUL with UA being able to operate regional jets on the SFO-TUL route and with UA being able to more easily fill SFO-TUL nonstop flights.

Is UA likely to add SFO-TUL nonstop service, especially with the possibility of MX adding SFO-TUL nonstop service if SFO-TUL nonstop service isn't added by UA along with the lack of SFO-TUL nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets?

Is WN likely to make adds such as OAK-ORF/OKC/TPA/TUL nonstop service or the return of OAK-CMH/SAT nonstop service to defend against possible adds by MX out of SFO?

jplatts wrote:

There is a naval presence in both Hampton Roads and the San Francisco Bay Area (including in Alameda, which is near OAK) to support OAK-ORF nonstop service on WN.

As an Alamedan I can tell you there is really no naval presence in Alameda any longer. NAS Alameda closed in 97. There are a few ready reserve ships tied up at the point and a small joint Navy/USMC reserve base left on the island.

We do have one of the largest Coast Guard bases on the west coast but that's not going to support a flight to ORF.

United1 wrote:

As an Alamedan I can tell you there is really no naval presence in Alameda any longer. NAS Alameda closed in 97. There are a few ready reserve ships tied up at the point and a small joint Navy/USMC reserve base left on the island.

We do have one of the largest Coast Guard bases on the west coast but that's not going to support a flight to ORF.

Good point regarding the military presence that is there in the San Francisco Bay Area.

The only military presence that really supports SFO is Travis. There is occasionally large groups of AF personal on the SFO-HNL connecting to HNL-GUM to support Anderson AFB operations

jplatts wrote:

There are some defensive moves that both WN and UA could make in the San Francisco Bay Area to defend against possible MX adds out of SFO such as
(a) the return of WN OAK-CMH/SAT nonstop service,
(b) the addition of WN OAK-ORF/OKC/TPA/TUL nonstop service,
(c) the return of UA SFO-XNA nonstop service, and
(d) the addition of UA SFO-TUL nonstop service.

Both WN and UA have significant frequent flyer bases in the San Francisco Bay Area to support nonstop service to additional destinations out of the San Francisco Bay Area.

There would be some connecting opportunities to Hawaii from OKC, SAT, and TUL through OAK on WN if WN adds OAK-OKC/TUL nonstop service and WN re-adds OAK-SAT nonstop service.

There is a naval presence in both Hampton Roads and the San Francisco Bay Area (including in Alameda, which is near OAK) to support OAK-ORF nonstop service on WN.

TUL is one of the top remaining domestic destinations traveled to from the San Francisco Bay Area that isn't currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area, and UA would clearly have an advantage over MX on SFO-TUL with UA being able to operate regional jets on the SFO-TUL route and with UA being able to more easily fill SFO-TUL nonstop flights.

Is UA likely to add SFO-TUL nonstop service, especially with the possibility of MX adding SFO-TUL nonstop service if SFO-TUL nonstop service isn't added by UA along with the lack of SFO-TUL nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets?

Is WN likely to make adds such as OAK-ORF/OKC/TPA/TUL nonstop service or the return of OAK-CMH/SAT nonstop service to defend against possible adds by MX out of SFO?

XNA/SFO on UA isn't coming back till Asia fully opens up and I have doubts even then since it was 76 seater. That flight was predicated on business travel. Now, twice a week seasonal might work on an A223. G4 recently went year round on XNA/LAX.

I believe any XNA/SFO service on MX needs to be a "Breeze Thru" from another Florida/Eastern Seaboard station.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

XNA/SFO on UA isn't coming back till Asia fully opens up and I have doubts even then since it was 76 seater. That flight was predicated on business travel. Now, twice a week seasonal might work on an A223. G4 recently went year round on XNA/LAX.

There are a few markets not currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area that likely have enough O&D demand to the San Francisco Bay Area to support UA nonstop service to SFO without connecting demand to Asia such as CVG, COS, DSM, ELP, MKE, and TUL.

XNA also had lower PDEW's to the San Francisco Bay Area in Q3 2021 than CVG, COS, DSM, ELP, MKE, or TUL did with the PDEW of XNA-SFO/OAK/SJC being only 29 passengers/day in Q3 2021.

jplatts wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

XNA/SFO on UA isn't coming back till Asia fully opens up and I have doubts even then since it was 76 seater. That flight was predicated on business travel. Now, twice a week seasonal might work on an A223. G4 recently went year round on XNA/LAX.

There are a few markets not currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area that likely have enough O&D demand to the San Francisco Bay Area to support UA nonstop service to SFO without connecting demand to Asia such as CVG, COS, DSM, ELP, MKE, and TUL.

XNA also had lower PDEW's to the San Francisco Bay Area in Q3 2021 than CVG, COS, DSM, ELP, MKE, or TUL did with the PDEW of XNA-SFO/OAK/SJC being only 29 passengers/day in Q3 2021.

As I said, The XNA/SFO routes sole purpose was to connect business interests with Asia. The nonstop fares for economy made it a virtual no go for anyone going to taste Napa's wine or to do smack in a park overlooking the Golden Gate. It will not come back till Asia comes back and when it does, Walmart's presence there is smaller than it was pre-pandemic An example is it sold off it's Seiyu interest in Japan on late 2020.

jplatts wrote:

WaywardMemphian wrote:

XNA/SFO on UA isn't coming back till Asia fully opens up and I have doubts even then since it was 76 seater. That flight was predicated on business travel. Now, twice a week seasonal might work on an A223. G4 recently went year round on XNA/LAX.

There are a few markets not currently served nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area that likely have enough O&D demand to the San Francisco Bay Area to support UA nonstop service to SFO without connecting demand to Asia such as CVG, COS, DSM, ELP, MKE, and TUL.

XNA also had lower PDEW's to the San Francisco Bay Area in Q3 2021 than CVG, COS, DSM, ELP, MKE, or TUL did with the PDEW of XNA-SFO/OAK/SJC being only 29 passengers/day in Q3 2021.

This would have little to do with XNA-SFO demand volumetrically. It's all about Wal-Mart (and a couple others) premium fares to points beyond SFO.

CMH has formally confirmed the return of UA CMH-SFO from June 4:

https://newshub.columbusairports.com/st ... ervice.pdf

Was operated by a 319 pre-pandemic and is now scheduled as a 1x daily 738. The announcement of intel’s massive Columbus-area chip plant and new expansion of Meta (Facebook)’s data center should provide plenty of business traffic support for this resumption.

Here are the Q4 2021 PDEW's of the top markets traveled from the San Francisco Bay Area that don't currently have WN nonstop service out of SFO/OAK/SJC:
SF Bay Area-NYC - 3718 (WN previously served EWR nonstop from OAK, EWR is no longer served by WN)
SF Bay Area-IAD/DCA/BWI - 1291 (WN previously served BWI nonstop from OAK/SJC)
SF Bay Area-BOS/PVD/MHT - 1265
SF Bay Area-MIA/FLL - 877
SF Bay Area-ATL - 756 (WN planning on resuming OAK-ATL nonstop service on a Sunday-only basis in September 2022)
SF Bay Area-MCO - 592 (WN previously served MCO nonstop from OAK/SJC)
SF Bay Area-MSP - 572 (WN previously served MSP nonstop from OAK)
SF Bay Area-PHL - 478 (WN previously served PHL nonstop from OAK)
SF Bay Area-DTW - 460
SF Bay Area-RDU - 299
SF Bay Area-CLT - 298
SF Bay Area-MSY - 240 (WN previously served MSY nonstop from OAK/SJC)
SF Bay Area-IND - 212 (WN previously served IND nonstop from OAK)
SF Bay Area-CLE/CAK - 203
SF Bay Area-SAT - 178 (WN previously served SAT nonstop from OAK)

Is WN likely to add or resume nonstop service to any of the above markets out of OAK/SJC? If so, which of the above markets are most likely to see WN nonstop service added out of OAK/SJC?

Nice little writeup in the SF Business Times a few days ago about United bouncing back at SFO.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisc ... el-ua.html

United Airlines sees big lift at SFO for Memorial Day weekend; more international flights coming in early June

The holiday weekend’s strong showing at SFO underscores what United Airlines Chief Commercial Officer Andrew Nocella told investors on May 17.

“San Francisco is finally coming back,” Nocella said. “Our performance out of San Francisco over the last four or five weeks has been incredibly good.”

...

United will also start operating six daily flights out of three gates in Terminal 2, starting in June.

“Terminal 2 gives us opportunities to put all kinds of different aircraft into that gate space, which is going to be a big opportunity,” said Lori Augustine, vice president of United’s San Francisco hub. “For San Francisco, Terminal 2 is a big piece of our growth opportunity.”

BA has resumed LHR-SJC after over two years absence. This is the first (and so far only scheduled) trans-oceanic flight to resume there after COVID.

iflykpdx wrote:

BA has resumed LHR-SJC after over two years absence. This is the first (and so far only scheduled) trans-oceanic flight to resume there after COVID.

Is NH for sure going to resume SJC?

I haven’t seen any indication that HU will return to SJC though.

BoeingGuy wrote:

Is NH for sure going to resume SJC?

I haven’t seen any indication that HU will return to SJC though.

Nothing is scheduled from NH or HU as far as I can tell.

Cardude2 wrote:

iflykpdx wrote:

BoeingGuy wrote:

Is NH for sure going to resume SJC?

I haven’t seen any indication that HU will return to SJC though.

Nothing is scheduled from NH or HU as far as I can tell.

HU is dying and NH left as the service wasn't profitable, then again they were using the A343.

NH don't even have A340s in their fleet. You are probably thinking LH. NH was using 787s.

Doubt HU could fly to SJC even if they wanted to. Air service between US and China is limited to 8 weekly frequencies by each nation since 2020.

UPlog wrote:

Doubt HU could fly to SJC even if they wanted to. Air service between US and China is limited to 8 weekly frequencies by each nation since 2020.

IIRC HU had occasional cargo service during the early days of COVID.

Surprising....

Zipair announces SJC-NRT

ZIPAIR to Launch Nonstop Service to Mineta San José Starting December 2022 - https://www.zipair.net/th/notification/112

"Details of Tokyo Narita=Norman Y. Mineta San Jose Service
- Planned Launch Date: December 2022
- Reservations will open in autumn.
- Flights will be subject to relevant government approvals.
- Flight schedules and fares will be announced via the carrier`s website."

WN starting SJC-PSP

Another route to chase AS off, no doubt.

https://www.swamedia.com/releases/relea ... jan-4-2023

So happy about the Zipair news! Son is in Japan and getting him home nonstop is rarely below $2000 vs. through LAX at $600-ish. Even before Zipair to LAX fares were always less than half of SFO despite three airlines serving six routes. NH is returning to SJC. I'm booked early November and the cheapest fare in Economy is around $4000.

SurfandSnow wrote:

For those traveling between Sonoma County and SFO, keep in mind that you will have to pay a hefty toll to cross the Golden Gate bridge, and then have no choice but to take city streets for quite some time before reaching another freeway to get to the airport. Even if traffic on the 101 itself isn't bad, getting all the way across SF can be rather confusing and difficult. Then again, many tourists may wish to see SF's urban attractions as well as spend time at wineries further afield, so maybe this isn't a problem at all.

There is access to OAK from Sonoma and Marin counties via US 101, I-580 (including the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge connecting Sonoma/Marin Counties to the East Bay), and I-880. At least the drive to OAK from Sonoma/Marin counties via the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge does not require driving on San Francisco city streets.

jplatts wrote:

SurfandSnow wrote:

For those traveling between Sonoma County and SFO, keep in mind that you will have to pay a hefty toll to cross the Golden Gate bridge, and then have no choice but to take city streets for quite some time before reaching another freeway to get to the airport. Even if traffic on the 101 itself isn't bad, getting all the way across SF can be rather confusing and difficult. Then again, many tourists may wish to see SF's urban attractions as well as spend time at wineries further afield, so maybe this isn't a problem at all.

There is access to OAK from Sonoma and Marin counties via US 101, I-580 (including the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge connecting Sonoma/Marin Counties to the East Bay), and I-880. At least the drive to OAK from Sonoma/Marin counties via the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge does not require driving on San Francisco city streets.

To be fair United was barley providing any service at all out of STS. Prior to Covid they were running 3x SFO and 2x DEN daily. It was down to 1x SFO daily, very useless. Overall news is looking up for little STS, which just finished June with about 58k pax, that is 4 months in a row over 50k. New terminal opening in October. WN was interested before Covid and dropped in SBA last year, maybe they finally come in 2023. It would be nice for more eastern routes or some more competition for AS, who is pulling over 30k pax a month now.

Here is some information from a recent article

Aha — short for air, hotel, adventure — will initially fly between Reno and Sonoma County twice a week, on Thursdays and Sundays, with 50-seat Embraer ERJ145 regional jets.

Moving over to passenger figures for June, United Airlines, Alaska Airlines, American Airlines and Avelo Airlines collectively flew 57,966 passengers through the Sonoma County airport, up 17.9% from a year earlier, according to airport officials. That’s up from 51,606 travelers in May.

Alaska Airlines in June flew 32,156 passengers through Santa Rosa, up 6.9% from a year earlier. The airline’s load factor — the measure of how full airplanes are on average — was 83% on Santa Rosa flights.

American Airlines last month flew 14,206 passengers through the regional airport, up 21.3% from a year earlier. American’s load factor was 84%.

Burbank-based Avelo Airlines in June flew 10,214 passengers through the airport, with a load factor of 61%.

And United Airlines flew 1,390 passengers through the facility last month, with a load factor of 46%.

Stout said the Sonoma County airport has flown more than 50,000 passengers each month for the past four months, and he anticipates that will continue — and potentially rise — to 60,000 passengers through October. The last time the facility recorded more than 50,000 passengers for consecutive months was in July, August and September of 2019, he said.

https://www.northbaybusinessjournal.com ... irline-de/

AMALH747430 wrote:

To be fair, no other airline has been able to build a focus city at SFO either. VX couldn’t turn a consistent profit doing it and AS (a well known brand on the west coast) couldn’t build one after they acquired VX. Like any major metro area, there are customers who fall clearly into either the SFO or OAK catchment area, but there’s also a sizable number that fall into an area accessible to both. UA and WN serve the Bay area well and are going to be formidable competition.

NK does have nonstop service out of OAK to a few destinations that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from OAK such as ORD, EWR, and PHL, even though WN still has daily nonstop service to MDW in Chicago from OAK.

WN had previously served EWR nonstop from OAK, but EWR is no longer served by WN.

PHL still has 1-stop connecting options from OAK on WN, and WN was serving PHL nonstop from OAK 13 years ago (back when WN had a much bigger presence at PHL).

AS had added nonstop service to SFO from a few markets in the Northwest that were never served by VX such as BOI, BZN, MSO, RDM, and GEG after the AS-VX merger, but AS has strong brand recognition in the Northwestern U.S. to support AS nonstop service to SFO from BOI/BZN/MSO/RDM/GEG.

jplatts wrote:

AMALH747430 wrote:

To be fair, no other airline has been able to build a focus city at SFO either. VX couldn’t turn a consistent profit doing it and AS (a well known brand on the west coast) couldn’t build one after they acquired VX. Like any major metro area, there are customers who fall clearly into either the SFO or OAK catchment area, but there’s also a sizable number that fall into an area accessible to both. UA and WN serve the Bay area well and are going to be formidable competition.

NK does have nonstop service out of OAK to a few destinations that WN doesn't currently serve nonstop from OAK such as ORD, EWR, and PHL, even though WN still has daily nonstop service to MDW in Chicago from OAK.

WN had previously served EWR nonstop from OAK, but EWR is no longer served by WN.

PHL still has 1-stop connecting options from OAK on WN, and WN was serving PHL nonstop from OAK 13 years ago (back when WN had a much bigger presence at PHL).

AS had added nonstop service to SFO from a few markets in the Northwest that were never served by VX such as BOI, BZN, MSO, RDM, and GEG after the AS-VX merger, but AS has strong brand recognition in the Northwestern U.S. to support AS nonstop service to SFO from BOI/BZN/MSO/RDM/GEG.

NK does serve a few destinations out of OAK that WN doesn’t. However, according to BTS data from June 2021 - May 2022 NK had 5.14% of the OAK passenger share vs. WN’s 79.33%. https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... 4vr4=SNPgf

ITA Airways aims to launch services to San Francisco and Washington in summer 2023

Italia Trasporto Aereo (ITA Airways) CEO Fabio Lazzerini outlined plans for the carrier to launch services to San Francisco and Washington in summer 2023 (L'Agenzia di Viaggi/ItaliaVola, 22/24-Sep-2022). Mr Lazzerini said ITA also aims to open a new route to South America, subject to timely delivery of aircraft.

https://centreforaviation.com/news/ita- ... 23-1161823

Rest behind paywall if anyone else has more info...

Can anyone tell me why Gate 28 at OAK has disappeared?

Can anyone tell me why Gate 28 at OAK has disappeared?

In case you missed it, the WSJ named SFO the best big airport for 2022. They also did a little video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhdsooQCcjs

I honestly concur. It's such a manageable airport that's easy to navigate and never feels overwhelming. I have appreciated it even more as I've flown so much through DEN, EWR and LAX in the last year, all of which are honestly terrible airports. Hopefully they can get the T3-F remodel back on track soon, but T3-F honestly isn't even that terrible for an old terminal – it's big for its age and has decent concessions.