Thanx for the input guys.

(I was not aware that WN had lost the GSA contract for SAN-ORF so I guess we stand no chance of any nonstop in that market for at least a year... The market is generally in the top 5 largest unserved markets in the US. Ugh...)

(Great to hear from you Silver'! Hope you're not working too hard over there... but I wouldn't bet on it!)

bb

Silver1SWA wrote:

SANFan wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

Well they do cut it to 18 per route lol.

WN's almost complete pull down of Hawaii from SAN has me scratching my head; I suppose they figure they will continue to operate double-daily HNL flights and then force those heading for the outer islands to use the WN inter-island flights. But as long as AS continues flying to all 4 islands nonstop from SAN, some of them more than daily, and with HA serving at least Maui in addition to HNL, I don't know if that's a reasonable move by WN. Maybe it's an equipment issue for WN but I sure don't understand it. (Not even SAN-OGG on WN??? Really?)

bb

The flight schedules the past two years, especially the summer schedules, completely overwhelmed staffing, gate space and airport infrastructure in Hawaii. Over tourism has also been a problem especially on Maui so I think some tweaks needed to be made to help alleviate those challenges at least until they can get fully staffed in the islands.

I flew OAK-LIH-HNL-OGG-LAS over the course of 2 weeks, making stops at each of those islands, all on WN within the last month.

OGG as Silver mentioned is a mess. They are doing some kind of construction project on the south end of the terminal that literally just has rows of chairs lining, what normally is a walkway, being used as hold room space while waiting to board your flight. The line when we landed coming in for security was super long I was happy weren’t on the way off the island. We had an early flight when we left so no security issues at least for us. They had a sign up that made it look like they just started tsa pre back up or moved it the day before. It was pretty makeshift.

HNL had its own issues. Baggage took over an hour. It was also the first time we didn’t have our stroller we gate checked come back up to the gate. After waiting awhile they told us it would be at the carousel with all the other bags. There was one family waiting for their stroller that was connecting so they weren’t going to go out of security, so that was a bit of an issue. It was all due to not enough ground staff. I am guessing they didn’t have anyone to unload are plane yet. I have apple tags and I could also see our bags move from one plane to another loading more bags on the trailer. They obviously didn’t have enough people for the flights they had.

LIH we had zero issues but it also is a much smaller operation.

Jshank83 wrote:

Silver1SWA wrote:

SANFan wrote:

WN's almost complete pull down of Hawaii from SAN has me scratching my head; I suppose they figure they will continue to operate double-daily HNL flights and then force those heading for the outer islands to use the WN inter-island flights. But as long as AS continues flying to all 4 islands nonstop from SAN, some of them more than daily, and with HA serving at least Maui in addition to HNL, I don't know if that's a reasonable move by WN. Maybe it's an equipment issue for WN but I sure don't understand it. (Not even SAN-OGG on WN??? Really?)

bb

The flight schedules the past two years, especially the summer schedules, completely overwhelmed staffing, gate space and airport infrastructure in Hawaii. Over tourism has also been a problem especially on Maui so I think some tweaks needed to be made to help alleviate those challenges at least until they can get fully staffed in the islands.

HNL had its own issues. Baggage took over an hour. It was also the first time we didn’t have our stroller we gate checked come back up to the gate. After waiting awhile they told us it would be at the carousel with all the other bags. There was one family waiting for their stroller that was connecting so they weren’t going to go out of security, so that was a bit of an issue. It was all due to not enough ground staff. I am guessing they didn’t have anyone to unload are plane yet. I have apple tags and I could also see our bags move from one plane to another loading more bags on the trailer. They obviously didn’t have enough people for the flights they had.

Yeah it wasn’t uncommon for a 20 minute interisland flight to hold up to an hour for a gate and/or a ramp crew and then another hour for bags to be offloaded and delivered to baggage claim. There’s a good chance I was the runner on your flight and what you describe happened daily. One thing especially with some mid day interisland flights was the same agent would run local and transfer bags so with tight connections we’d have to stop at multiple gates first to deliver connecting bags. It was rough and frustrating for employees and customers but I do feel the past couple months things have stabilized quite a bit with the new flight schedules, powerstow beltloaders finally arriving on property allowing more efficient offloads and a few temps filling in while new hires are trained and signed off. It’s getting better.

Great to hear that Silver 1SWA that things are going better in some stations.

Silver1SWA wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Silver1SWA wrote:

The flight schedules the past two years, especially the summer schedules, completely overwhelmed staffing, gate space and airport infrastructure in Hawaii. Over tourism has also been a problem especially on Maui so I think some tweaks needed to be made to help alleviate those challenges at least until they can get fully staffed in the islands.

HNL had its own issues. Baggage took over an hour. It was also the first time we didn’t have our stroller we gate checked come back up to the gate. After waiting awhile they told us it would be at the carousel with all the other bags. There was one family waiting for their stroller that was connecting so they weren’t going to go out of security, so that was a bit of an issue. It was all due to not enough ground staff. I am guessing they didn’t have anyone to unload are plane yet. I have apple tags and I could also see our bags move from one plane to another loading more bags on the trailer. They obviously didn’t have enough people for the flights they had.

Yeah it wasn’t uncommon for a 20 minute interisland flight to hold up to an hour for a gate and/or a ramp crew and then another hour for bags to be offloaded and delivered to baggage claim. There’s a good chance I was the runner on your flight and what you describe happened daily. One thing especially with some mid day interisland flights was the same agent would run local and transfer bags so with tight connections we’d have to stop at multiple gates first to deliver connecting bags. It was rough and frustrating for employees and customers but I do feel the past couple months things have stabilized quite a bit with the new flight schedules, powerstow beltloaders finally arriving on property allowing more efficient offloads and a few temps filling in while new hires are trained and signed off. It’s getting better.

Makes sense. It was a midday flight. We came from LIH to HNL and landed around 1 or 2. A couple other flights from the mainland landed about the same time.

avi8 wrote:

Sometimes I get the feeling that Southwest is now more of a West Coast airline than anything else.

Always has been.

WN732 wrote:

avi8 wrote:

Sometimes I get the feeling that Southwest is now more of a West Coast airline than anything else.

Always has been.

Because Texas is on the West Coast?

WN732 wrote:

avi8 wrote:

Sometimes I get the feeling that Southwest is now more of a West Coast airline than anything else.

Always has been.

Certainly not a "west coast airline". Maybe a "California and Texas" airline.

If you're referring to WN's trifecta Mountain West focus cities (DEN/LAS/PHX) as "west coast", then I suppose that would be more accurate.

Not sure why everybody expects some sort of big schedule buildup. WN recovering from a bunch of gut punches:
1 - Pandemic travel collapse
2 - Boeing's inability to get it together with the FAA and then ensuing inability to deliver aircraft at any decent pace
3 - Shortage of staffing
4 - Large buildup of Hawaii just as all the above started. So WN needs to maintain some sort of decent schedule there while dealing with the rest of the network.
All this means WN is stretched really thin. Not easy to build things up rapidly in these circumstances.

Chemist wrote:

Not sure why everybody expects some sort of big schedule buildup. WN recovering from a bunch of gut punches:
1 - Pandemic travel collapse
2 - Boeing's inability to get it together with the FAA and then ensuing inability to deliver aircraft at any decent pace
3 - Shortage of staffing
4 - Large buildup of Hawaii just as all the above started. So WN needs to maintain some sort of decent schedule there while dealing with the rest of the network.
All this means WN is stretched really thin. Not easy to build things up rapidly in these circumstances.

I’m a bit curious why WN expenses so many resources on Hawaii at the expense of a lot of the rest of its network. Why wasn’t it a slower buildup?

Vctony wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Not sure why everybody expects some sort of big schedule buildup. WN recovering from a bunch of gut punches:
1 - Pandemic travel collapse
2 - Boeing's inability to get it together with the FAA and then ensuing inability to deliver aircraft at any decent pace
3 - Shortage of staffing
4 - Large buildup of Hawaii just as all the above started. So WN needs to maintain some sort of decent schedule there while dealing with the rest of the network.
All this means WN is stretched really thin. Not easy to build things up rapidly in these circumstances.

I’m a bit curious why WN expenses so many resources on Hawaii at the expense of a lot of the rest of its network. Why wasn’t it a slower buildup?

Probably because once Hawaii reopened to tourism, demand snapped back faster than other markets.

My suspicions on the somewhat rapid Hawaii build up: Their business flyers value using FF miles to go to Hawaii. One of these days I am expecting one of their planes to be filled entirely with FF flying passengers - it would be great public relations and free advertising.

drerx7 wrote:

splitterz wrote:

avi8 wrote:

I’m shocked to see that IAH has only 2 daily flights to a lot of cities. I know many flights have been upgauged, but it seems it has come at the expense of schedule flexibility for passengers. For example, PHL, CVG, MSP, TPA, PDX, DTW, etc. only have 2 flights a day.

From a network perspective, IAH connects poorly to all those cities mentioned when compared to DEN or ORD.

The double daily is part pilot shortage and part traffic numbers rebounding. Prior to covid TPA for example was up to 4x daily at its most robust. All except PDX mentioned have direct nonstop competition as well....CVG may be only ua now.

HOU can support the return of WN HOU-CVG/MKE/PDX nonstop service with UA currently the only airline serving CVG/MKE/PDX nonstop from Houston along with the cuts that UA has made at IAH hub.

HOU can also likely support the return of WN HOU-CLT/SEA nonstop service with WN having previously operated daily nonstop service to CLT/SEA from HOU.

Will WN take advantage of the opportunities that are there to further expand domestically at HOU (including resumptions of routes previously served nonstop from HOU such as HOU-CLT/CVG/MKE/PDX/SEA) once WN has more pilots and more planes?

ADent wrote:

SWADawg wrote:

I just saw mention that Southwest is also only able to take 66 MAX8 Aircraft this year instead of the original 114 deliveries due to supply chain shortages at Boeing.

Boeing only delivered 12 MAX8 by the mid point of the year.

Southwest’s reduced expectation was 23 in 3rd quarter and 31 in the 4th.

Airfleets is showing only 8 more delivered in July & August (20 total).

So Boeing needs to step up the pace to even make it to 66.

Being here in PHX where all the new deliveries come, I have seen a LOT. 8772 came on the 27th, 8773 came a couple days later, 8770 and 8771 have made test flights very recently (8771 is active now) so they're probably days away from a delivery flight. Also the remarketed ones are being delivered too - N1803U came on Saturday. There are so many I can't keep up with them! Can't wait for 871Hk!

Has N466WN been sold? Ferrying from MIA-DHN under a Nomadic flight number (OMD279). Clearly has been worked on by Commercial Jet lately

gdavis003 wrote:

Has N466WN been sold? Ferrying from MIA-DHN under a Nomadic flight number (OMD279). Clearly has been worked on by Commercial Jet lately

Great question and this is an odd retirement if it is one as it would be the newest age retirement of the fleet exceeding N433LV

N744SW made it's (possibly) final flight on Sept 10, flying in as WN8500 into BHM.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n744sw

gdavis003 wrote:

Has N466WN been sold? Ferrying from MIA-DHN under a Nomadic flight number (OMD279). Clearly has been worked on by Commercial Jet lately

N466WN was a leased aircraft and never owned by Southwest, it's simply been returned to the lessor

n471wn wrote:

gdavis003 wrote:

Has N466WN been sold? Ferrying from MIA-DHN under a Nomadic flight number (OMD279). Clearly has been worked on by Commercial Jet lately

Great question and this is an odd retirement if it is one as it would be the newest age retirement of the fleet exceeding N433LV

It is going to Avelo

There is an article titled "Is Hawaii Paradise or a Money Pit for Southwest Airlines?" on The Motley Fool's website at https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/09/ ... thwest-ai/.

jplatts wrote:

There is an article titled "Is Hawaii Paradise or a Money Pit for Southwest Airlines?" on The Motley Fool's website at https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/09/ ... thwest-ai/.

Back when they ramped up DEN I always heard they were loosing money to quickly grab market share. Looks like it worked for them there in the long run. Will it work for them in Hawaii too?

AMALH747430 wrote:

Back when they ramped up DEN I always heard they were loosing money to quickly grab market share. Looks like it worked for them there in the long run. Will it work for them in Hawaii too?

DEN is a very different market from Hawaii with
(a) the Denver metropolitan area having a population of approximately 3 million people whereas the entire state of Hawaii has a population of only approximately 1.4 million people,
(b) DEN already having nonstop or 1-stop connectivity on WN to almost all of the WN stations in the Contiguous U.S., Hawaii, Mexico, and Central America whereas there are far more markets that don't currently have 1-stop connectivity to Hawaii on WN,
(c) there being far more connecting opportunities available through DEN on WN than what would ever be offered onto or from WN interisland Hawaii nonstop routes,
(d) DEN carrying far more domestic passengers per year than any of the Hawaiian airports, and
(e) the majority of the WN nonstop routes out of DEN being significantly shorter than any of the Hawaii to Contiguous U.S. nonstop routes.

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

airplaneboy wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

Perhaps a jump to small smaller European markets from BWI.

airplaneboy wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

ETOPS-equipped 737 MAX's allow WN to serve ANC nonstop from DAL via a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean that avoids Canadian airspace, and the distance of DAL-ANC via a less direct route over Pacific Ocean is approximately 3240 miles (compared to approximately 3050 miles for the more direct route over Canada).

The Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 allows nonstop service to Alaska and Hawaii from DAL (on or after the 10/13/2014 Wright Amendment repeal date), but prohibits nonstop flights out of DAL to international destinations, Puerto Rico, and the USVI.

WN operating DAL-ANC over a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean using ETOPS-equipped aircraft allows WN to avoid the potential legal issues that would be there if a DAL-ANC flight is diverted to a Canadian airport.

The published range of the 737 MAX 8 is 4082 miles, and the great circle distance of PHX-HNL (the longest route currently served nonstop by WN) is 2917 miles.

CM also already operates 737 MAX 9's on PTY-EZE, which is a longer route than DAL-ANC (even over a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean that avoids Canadian airspace). The great circle distance of PTY-EZE is 3313 miles.

SWADawg wrote:

This is what schedule extensions are going to continue to look like until the FAA certifies the MAX7. Period. Once they’ve certified the Aircraft and Southwest knows exactly when the Aircraft will be delivered, it can then plan for full network restoration and growth again. Until that happens, expect more of the same underwhelming Saturday only route resumptions and not much else unfortunately.

UPDATE: Boeing is now planning on delivering the 737 MAX 8's that were originally intended to be delivered to Chinese airlines to other non-Chinese airlines, and this is being discussed at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1476697.

Will WN take advantage of the opportunity that is now there to pick up more 737 MAX planes (beyond those already scheduled for delivery to WN) and add more flights back into its flight schedules?

I know this was mentioned on Nashville and rumors going around if anything big will be announced at the spirit party next week maybe the base ?

jplatts wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

ETOPS-equipped 737 MAX's allow WN to serve ANC nonstop from DAL via a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean that avoids Canadian airspace, and the distance of DAL-ANC via a less direct route over Pacific Ocean is approximately 3240 miles (compared to approximately 3050 miles for the more direct route over Canada).

The Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 allows nonstop service to Alaska and Hawaii from DAL (on or after the 10/13/2014 Wright Amendment repeal date), but prohibits nonstop flights out of DAL to international destinations, Puerto Rico, and the USVI.

WN operating DAL-ANC over a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean using ETOPS-equipped aircraft allows WN to avoid the potential legal issues that would be there if a DAL-ANC flight is diverted to a Canadian airport.

The published range of the 737 MAX 8 is 4082 miles, and the great circle distance of PHX-HNL (the longest route currently served nonstop by WN) is 2917 miles.

CM also already operates 737 MAX 9's on PTY-EZE, which is a longer route than DAL-ANC (even over a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean that avoids Canadian airspace). The great circle distance of PTY-EZE is 3313 miles.

They can divert to an international airport - they just can't sell tickets to one nonstop. They are also allowed to ferry an airplane internationally, it just can't carry passengers - unless it stops somewhere.

If this was the case, then they would have issues at places like ELP and SAN where some of the approaches/departures can take you over Mexican airspace.

n471wn wrote:

gdavis003 wrote:

Has N466WN been sold? Ferrying from MIA-DHN under a Nomadic flight number (OMD279). Clearly has been worked on by Commercial Jet lately

Great question and this is an odd retirement if it is one as it would be the newest age retirement of the fleet exceeding N433LV

N921WN is the newest, it also ended up with Avelo.

So touching on a few things here... N744SW did indeed ferry to BHM for part out and scrap. N433WN was returned to lessor (in this case via the MRO in MIA) quite some time ago.

ALSO N8619F is currently in GEG being repainted as the new IL One. The half-white -800 (8656) should ferry from PAE to GEG to finish its repaint in the coming days.

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Every MAX in the fleet that doesn't have a tail number in the 8800s is ETOPS equipped. As for the reasoning? Your guess is as good as mine.

Wneast wrote:

I know this was mentioned on Nashville and rumors going around if anything big will be announced at the spirit party next week maybe the base ?

My gut says no. People have been speculating about a BNA base since I got here and I've been here over 5 years. My gut says a BNA base is nothing more than a pipe dream.

airplaneboy wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

Perhaps there’s value in aircraft routing/scheduling flexibility? Aside from the phasing out of -200s and -500s where they ended their days on Texas routes, small sub-fleets never really fit the business model.

Wneast wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

Perhaps a jump to small smaller European markets from BWI.

I would not hold my breath for that. Deeper into South America is much more likely.

Once labor shortages get better and network restoration is complete, I think WN will take a bite at the Latin American pie. LAX-Central America, FLL-Northern-mid South America, and HOU to a mixture of both.

I think their system need to accept foreign currency as well. No idea if that’s happening.

jplatts wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

ETOPS-equipped 737 MAX's allow WN to serve ANC nonstop from DAL via a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean that avoids Canadian airspace

What's "wrong" with overflying Canadain airspace, out of curiosity? A BOS-MDW flight did so yesterday, as an example: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA ... /KBOS/KMDW

Western727 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

ETOPS-equipped 737 MAX's allow WN to serve ANC nonstop from DAL via a less direct route over the Pacific Ocean that avoids Canadian airspace

What's "wrong" with overflying Canadain airspace, out of curiosity? A BOS-MDW flight did so yesterday, as an example: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWA ... /KBOS/KMDW

I think the poster said it for wright amendment reasons but it doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t know why it would matter where you fly over.

Here is an article referencing the currency problem. It is over a year old but I think it is still valid.
https://www.businessinsider.com/southwe ... ada-2021-4

Looks like SWAPA has filed for federal mediation. How did Southwest go from the company that set the standard for labor-management relations to something that looks akin to the labor-management situation across town in Fort Worth at American?

https://www.cbsnews.com/dfw/news/southw ... r-dispute/

Silver1SWA wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Anyone have an idea on what the breakdown of ETOPS to non ETOPS MAX 8’s will eventually be? I’ve noticed we haven’t taken a non ETOPS Max 8 in a while. Even the ones we took from Spicejet are ETOPS.

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

Perhaps there’s value in aircraft routing/scheduling flexibility? Aside from the phasing out of -200s and -500s where they ended their days on Texas routes, small sub-fleets never really fit the business model.

Flying around ETOPS equipment burns more fuel, and maintaining regulatory checks of these items also costs time and money. I don’t see how a financially savvy company like WN (which is also sometimes on the “cheap” side — poor wifi, no power outlets, etc.) would be flying around dozens of ETOPS configured planes it doesn’t need for ETOPS missions… The over 100 ETOPS planes it has now are already way more than they need to cover their current Hawaii flying.

SAD DAY……..N709SW has been flown today to BHM for retirement. She was the #3 prototype for the NG series. The early build NG’s are dropping like flies.

Isn’t there someone that took photos of all these planes getting parted at BHM?

airplaneboy wrote:

Silver1SWA wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

Interestingly, WN’s Hawaii operation only needs a fraction of the 100ish ETOPS aircraft they have. And I’ve heard that many of the MAX 7s and still many of the upcoming MAX 8s will also be ETOPS configured. If not needed for Hawaii, then where else? This could very possibly be a logical clue as to where WN wants to expand flying in the future.

Perhaps there’s value in aircraft routing/scheduling flexibility? Aside from the phasing out of -200s and -500s where they ended their days on Texas routes, small sub-fleets never really fit the business model.

Flying around ETOPS equipment burns more fuel, and maintaining regulatory checks of these items also costs time and money. I don’t see how a financially savvy company like WN (which is also sometimes on the “cheap” side — poor wifi, no power outlets, etc.) would be flying around dozens of ETOPS configured planes it doesn’t need for ETOPS missions… The over 100 ETOPS planes it has now are already way more than they need to cover their current Hawaii flying.

What extra equipment do the ETOPS planes have? Does SWA no have over water equipment on all their planes? Seems like it would make Mexico and other Caribbean destinations difficult to route planes by staying within 60 minutes of suitable airports. ETOPS is not a huge deal to have the plane certified capable.

n471wn wrote:

SAD DAY……..N709SW has been flown today to BHM for retirement. She was the #3 prototype for the NG series. The early build NG’s are dropping like flies.

Oh wow.... I just worked several flights on that aircraft last week!

orlandocfi wrote:

mcdu wrote:

airplaneboy wrote:

Flying around ETOPS equipment burns more fuel, and maintaining regulatory checks of these items also costs time and money. I don’t see how a financially savvy company like WN (which is also sometimes on the “cheap” side — poor wifi, no power outlets, etc.) would be flying around dozens of ETOPS configured planes it doesn’t need for ETOPS missions… The over 100 ETOPS planes it has now are already way more than they need to cover their current Hawaii flying.

What extra equipment do the ETOPS planes have? Does SWA no have over water equipment on all their planes? Seems like it would make Mexico and other Caribbean destinations difficult to route planes by staying within 60 minutes of suitable airports. ETOPS is not a huge deal to have the plane certified capable.

Rafts and survival gear, HF and/or Satcom, extra fire suppression capability, to name a few. In other words, it’s more than just paperwork required to make a WN plane ETOPS capable if they didn’t spring for all the goodies when the planes were ordered. But then that’s a lot of dead weight for a plane that might be doing the Texas two step for days on end. There’s a method to their madness, but I think operational flexibility is perhaps becoming more important than ever.

Satcom isn’t required for Hawaii ops, HF isn’t a huge weight and the survival gear should be included for all the planes if they route them to the Caribbean or Latin America markets. I’m just surprised SWA scaled down the planes from the factory so much previously.

departedflights wrote:

n471wn wrote:

SAD DAY……..N709SW has been flown today to BHM for retirement. She was the #3 prototype for the NG series. The early build NG’s are dropping like flies.

Oh wow.... I just worked several flights on that aircraft last week!

An Amazing history of 79,000 hours and 47,000 cycles!

Read on Yahoo this Morning on a flight from Long Beach to HNL there was a customer who was playing the Ukelele on the flight giving lessons to those interested .
Looks like a Southwest , Herb K era good time on that flight.
Yeah i worked 709 many times. Memories.