AMALH747430 wrote:

It’s also big news in that WN went from being the gold standard when it came to management-employee relations to the company where pickets occur at “culture parties.” WN’s old “take care of the employees so they take care of the customers” mantra appears to be fading. WN’s labor relations are starting to look more and more like those of their competitor in Fort Worth.

Interesting, who in the airline industry and overall work environment in the USA was claiming that WN labor relations were the Gold Standard, what we do know is that Union membership in the USA has been declining for decades, no other major airline or business with similar size staff numbers were attempting to mimic WN union relations, indeed a lot of other airlines and business house were doing all they can to go in the other direction. Indeed the claim is that the 787 production method was put in place to minimize the effect of unions on Boeing's operations.
So as a study case, is it the management who are now following the path of other business houses in the USA or the union members following the activism of the other unions?

sonnyr23 wrote:

Kind of thinking that Bob Jordan could be just a Transitional CEO - President while Andrew Watterson is being groomed to take over in a year or two.
Many of us felt that Anthony Gregory, who left Southwest last year was The Chosen One to Succeed Gary Kelly but that wasn't the case.
Anthony Gregory's roots were Air Tran.

Anthony's name is still on the lips of many at the GO. IMHO Bob has always been the transition man and agree AW will be the next CEO and take LUV to new heights.

Southwest flight attendants are picketing at Love Field today:

https://www.fox4news.com/news/southwest ... itions.amp

Southwest's labor / management relations have really gone downhill quickly.

sonnyr23 wrote:

Kind of thinking that Bob Jordan could be just a Transitional CEO - President while Andrew Watterson is being groomed to take over in a year or two.
Many of us felt that Anthony Gregory, who left Southwest last year was The Chosen One to Succeed Gary Kelly but that wasn't the case.
Anthony Gregory's roots were Air Tran.

Gregory was not at Airtran.

The Southwest Flight Attendants are doing informational picketing today in 14 cities including both MDW & ORD in Chicago.

par13del wrote:

AMALH747430 wrote:

It’s also big news in that WN went from being the gold standard when it came to management-employee relations to the company where pickets occur at “culture parties.” WN’s old “take care of the employees so they take care of the customers” mantra appears to be fading. WN’s labor relations are starting to look more and more like those of their competitor in Fort Worth.

Interesting, who in the airline industry and overall work environment in the USA was claiming that WN labor relations were the Gold Standard, what we do know is that Union membership in the USA has been declining for decades, no other major airline or business with similar size staff numbers were attempting to mimic WN union relations, indeed a lot of other airlines and business house were doing all they can to go in the other direction. Indeed the claim is that the 787 production method was put in place to minimize the effect of unions on Boeing's operations.
So as a study case, is it the management who are now following the path of other business houses in the USA or the union members following the activism of the other unions?

It's an old example from about ten years ago, but I had a co-worker in a department where we were very involved in ground and sea transportation logistics, so were aware of the unionization there, and knew it was common in other transportation industries. He assumed that Southwest was a non-union airline, because the company and the union usually dealt with everything before it became an issue in the media. He was surprised when I informed him that Southwest was heavily unionized. Essentially, every labor group that can be represented by a union is represented by a union at Southwest.

par13del wrote:

AMALH747430 wrote:

It’s also big news in that WN went from being the gold standard when it came to management-employee relations to the company where pickets occur at “culture parties.” WN’s old “take care of the employees so they take care of the customers” mantra appears to be fading. WN’s labor relations are starting to look more and more like those of their competitor in Fort Worth.

Interesting, who in the airline industry and overall work environment in the USA was claiming that WN labor relations were the Gold Standard, what we do know is that Union membership in the USA has been declining for decades, no other major airline or business with similar size staff numbers were attempting to mimic WN union relations, indeed a lot of other airlines and business house were doing all they can to go in the other direction. Indeed the claim is that the 787 production method was put in place to minimize the effect of unions on Boeing's operations.
So as a study case, is it the management who are now following the path of other business houses in the USA or the union members following the activism of the other unions?

This is an older article (2014) but it sums things up nicely. That was the beginning of the end of the honeymoon phase of the labor/management peace at Southwest. For the first 25 years things were absolutely great. A flight attendant contract negotiation in the early 2000s got a little heated but was ultimately settled. I got my BBA in 2004 and in all of my management classes Southwest was held up as an example of how a unionized company could still have a great relationship with its employees.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/ ... t-airlines

Here’s another good one from 2016:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/s ... y-culture/

sonnyr23 wrote:

The Southwest Flight Attendants are doing informational picketing today in 14 cities including both MDW & ORD in Chicago.

'

It was a day of action at several unions. United flight attendants also picketed at 18 airports.

https://unitedafa.org/news/2022/9/13/day-of-action

Little off topic but friend of mine and I were discussing the MAX 7 today and we happened to mention the MAX 10 and we both were in agreement that at some point the -10 would find itself on property with WN with say a 100ish frames. Anyone else think eventually it will join WN? I honestly think there are several markets that could benefit from the upgauge in seats without having to add another FA.

LAXintl wrote:

sonnyr23 wrote:

The Southwest Flight Attendants are doing informational picketing today in 14 cities including both MDW & ORD in Chicago.

'

It was a day of action at several unions. United flight attendants also picketed at 18 airports.

https://unitedafa.org/news/2022/9/13/day-of-action

That’s true but it’s notable for Southwest because for most of their history this hasn’t been the case. Tumultuous labor relations is a relatively new thing for them.

That was the word that Anthony Gregory was ex Air Tran but we all know about Hear Say, Gossip, and Rumors. It was very rare for years and decades to see Southwest take any type of Beat Down in the News Media, Social Media, etc now it's like an every other day thing.
The Culture that Herb Started is now just a Facade, just like on a movie set. Southwest Leadership has hit Rock Bottom.

Rock bottom would mean it only gets better from here. We can only hope. But Herb’s culture has been gone a long time, at least on the frontlines. I learned a long time ago that when you hear about how it’s a top company to work for they’re really talking about the corporate side. Don’t get me wrong, relative to others in the industry we’ve had it good. But ground ops has been treated like a liability at least as far back as ‘05/‘06 with the “Redefining Excellence” outside consulting and the do more with less campaign.

Yes Sir S 1SWA The RX and then Later API teams. If you take your carts at T-Point ( Bag Room ) and place them facing Stonehenge or The Egyptian Pyramids you will receive " Mystic Powers " that will increase your Productivity.
What works in Corpus Christie should work in Las Vegas and other such nonsense. These Southwest Safety Auditors who most never worked a day in their life in the airline industry. Well that's a story for another day.
Yes you hit it out of the park S 1SWA by saying that it's The Corporate Side that they speak of when Southwest bangs the drums of being a top company to work for.
Still many great people that work for Southwest but the Master Plan is on every scheduled work day is to 8 and Skate.

Silver1SWA wrote:

Rock bottom would mean it only gets better from here. We can only hope. But Herb’s culture has been gone a long time, at least on the frontlines. I learned a long time ago that when you hear about how it’s a top company to work for they’re really talking about the corporate side. Don’t get me wrong, relative to others in the industry we’ve had it good. But ground ops has been treated like a liability at least as far back as ‘05/‘06 with the “Redefining Excellence” outside consulting and the do more with less campaign.

Interesting that when WN was unique in what they were doing management thought to bring in outside consulting, assumption being what it is, I assume these consultants got their experience consulting with other business houses not named WN, so no wonder WN is now looking like the rest.

737MAX7 wrote:

Little off topic but friend of mine and I were discussing the MAX 7 today and we happened to mention the MAX 10 and we both were in agreement that at some point the -10 would find itself on property with WN with say a 100ish frames. Anyone else think eventually it will join WN? I honestly think there are several markets that could benefit from the upgauge in seats without having to add another FA.

IMHO the -10 is inevitable at WN. WN was built on strong labor $ productivity. It needs to chase the cost and labor productivity of Frontier and Spirit/JetBlue with their densely configured 321neos. WN won't be able to use -10s from every airport or on every city pair but it doesn't need to. There are plenty of LAS and MCO routes on which they could use a -10 today. The only thing that stops -10s from coming to WN is a 737 replacement coming 'soon' -- and who is predicting that?

The Story was that Gary Kelly had a Family Member who ran an efficiency company and paid that person a sizeable amount of money to put together an efficiency team for Southwest.
The RX team spawned from this original efficiency group and later the team was renamed A.P.I. ( Like we would never notice ) Not sure how many of you remember Irwin Allen who made Disaster Films such as " The Poseidon Adventure " and " The Towering Inferno ". RX - API was an Irwin Allen Disaster movie. I don't think The Marvel Universe or The Justice League could have fixed The Damage they caused.
To break it down let's say you have 5 kids that are 10 years old and want to learn how to improve their Hitting in Little League Baseball. Enter Aaron Judge.
Another group of 5 kids that are 10 years old want to improve on Their Football Skills for Pop Warner Football. Enter Tom Brady.
Now if Southwest Airlines coordinated these 2 events on the same day using The RX - API mindset and mentality they will have Aaron Judge work with the five 10 year kids on how to improve their football skills and Tom Brady work with the other group of 5 kids at 10 yrs old and teach them how to Hit a Baseball.
So when that experiment collapses like a house with a foundation built on quicksand , one would think that there is only one logical solution to this.
Right ?
Instead of doing the obvious and having Brady & Judge switching groups to their specialty, Southwest will say " Well if we bring Serena Williams and Tiger Woods into the mix let's see how that will play out. That is pretty much the RX - API experiment in a nutshell.

WN732 wrote:

Illinois One has returned to revenue service on an -800 as N8619F

The Canyon Blue retro has been completed at the factory and is awaiting paint.

I was on it yesterday. As I came on board I told he front FA "new paint job, huh?"

I guess it really was a new paint job.

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/ ... UJm4dxqa2Q

https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... UJm4dxqa2Q

The Desert Gold retro has rolled out of paint!

According to the latest 8-K, MVDV resigned. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall.

"On September 25, 2022, Michael G. Van de Ven, President & Chief Operating Officer of Southwest Airlines Co. (the “Company”), submitted his resignation from his position of Chief Operating Officer, effective at the end of September 2022, and from his position of President, effective at the end of 2022. In connection with Mr. Van de Ven’s resignation, the Board of Directors of the Company (the “Board”) unanimously elected Andrew M. Watterson to succeed to the position of Chief Operating Officer, effective October 1, 2022, and Robert E. Jordan to succeed to the position of President, effective January 1, 2023. Mr. Jordan will also retain his role as the Company’s Chief Executive Officer."

MIflyer12 wrote:

737MAX7 wrote:

Little off topic but friend of mine and I were discussing the MAX 7 today and we happened to mention the MAX 10 and we both were in agreement that at some point the -10 would find itself on property with WN with say a 100ish frames. Anyone else think eventually it will join WN? I honestly think there are several markets that could benefit from the upgauge in seats without having to add another FA.

IMHO the -10 is inevitable at WN. WN was built on strong labor $ productivity. It needs to chase the cost and labor productivity of Frontier and Spirit/JetBlue with their densely configured 321neos. WN won't be able to use -10s from every airport or on every city pair but it doesn't need to. There are plenty of LAS and MCO routes on which they could use a -10 today. The only thing that stops -10s from coming to WN is a 737 replacement coming 'soon' -- and who is predicting that?

Either the Max 9/10 in 200-seat config will be at Southwest, the question is when. I don't think the 737 replacement will have any effect on the future 7M9/7MJ at Southwest I think it happens regardless. I think anywhere from 30-50 frames would be suitable for Southwest. Could be more but I would have to get a better grasp on the amount Southwest's high-frequency routes

AVENSAB727 wrote:

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/1574816714151411712?s=46&t=AgSznkCrvKBPUJm4dxqa2Q

https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... UJm4dxqa2Q

The Desert Gold retro has rolled out of paint!

It’s still not exactly the original livery.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html Andrew argued that WN doesn’t approve of the AA and B6 against there partnership.

SWADawg wrote:

UA444 wrote:

AVENSAB727 wrote:

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/1574816714151411712?s=46&t=AgSznkCrvKBPUJm4dxqa2Q

https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... UJm4dxqa2Q

The Desert Gold retro has rolled out of paint!

It’s still not exactly the original livery.

Agree. It’s missing the white outline around the windows, the black wind screen (which looked really sharp back in the day), and the heart with (1) in it.

And the red flap track fairings. (I know they were 700s only)

SWADawg wrote:

UA444 wrote:

AVENSAB727 wrote:

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/1574816714151411712?s=46&t=AgSznkCrvKBPUJm4dxqa2Q

https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... UJm4dxqa2Q

The Desert Gold retro has rolled out of paint!

It’s still not exactly the original livery.

Agree. It’s missing the white outline around the windows, the black wind screen (which looked really sharp back in the day), and the heart with (1) in it.

Besides the windows, decals, nose and fairings.... They nailed it!

(terrible)

SWADawg wrote:

UA444 wrote:

AVENSAB727 wrote:

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/1574816714151411712?s=46&t=AgSznkCrvKBPUJm4dxqa2Q

https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... UJm4dxqa2Q

The Desert Gold retro has rolled out of paint!

It’s still not exactly the original livery.

Agree. It’s missing the white outline around the windows, the black wind screen (which looked really sharp back in the day), and the heart with (1) in it.

To be fair, the #1 heart was only added ~1997, I think sometime after the unveiling of Triple Crown One. I read somewhere on here that the #1 heart was added to the livery in addition to the release of TCO as a way to celebrate being #1 in customer satisfaction.

I think 714 was The Desert Gold. Babe Ruth career home runs 714 and Jack Webb as Sgt Joe Friday Badge # 714. Useless Trivia.

One of my favorites was The Silver Bullet as we called it. I recall The Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Model that was on a 700. Didn't last very long before it was taken out of service and restored to its original colors.

sonnyr23 wrote:

One of my favorites was The Silver Bullet as we called it. I recall The Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Model that was on a 700. Didn't last very long before it was taken out of service and restored to its original colors.

And eventually became Tennessee One v1.0.

What happened to N707SA and N700GS?

UA444 wrote:

What happened to N707SA and N700GS?

Either collecting dust or turned into beer cans.

More bad news for MAX 7 certification. The FAA is saying that Boeing is behind on submissions which may cause the December deadline to slip. What the hell is Boeing doing? That then puts the MAX 7 in the same boat as the MAX 10. Southwest must be concerned. If Boeing is willing to pull the plug on the MAX 10 I would assume they would do the same with the MAX 7. I don't think the congressional extension is going to be easy to obtain.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/faa- ... 02341.html

INFINITI329 wrote:

More bad news for MAX 7 certification. The FAA is saying that Boeing is behind on submissions which may cause the December deadline to slip. What the hell is Boeing doing? That then puts the MAX 7 in the same boat as the MAX 10. Southwest must be concerned. If Boeing is willing to pull the plug on the MAX 10 I would assume they would do the same with the MAX 7. I don't think the congressional extension is going to be easy to obtain.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/faa- ... 02341.html

MAX10 has too many orders to pull the plug on. It will happen.

INFINITI329 wrote:

More bad news for MAX 7 certification. The FAA is saying that Boeing is behind on submissions which may cause the December deadline to slip. What the hell is Boeing doing? That then puts the MAX 7 in the same boat as the MAX 10. Southwest must be concerned. If Boeing is willing to pull the plug on the MAX 10 I would assume they would do the same with the MAX 7. I don't think the congressional extension is going to be easy to obtain.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/faa- ... 02341.html

The link is broken.

The link should have been:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/faa-says ... 02341.html

and Reuters has updated the story:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-faa-sa ... 54474.html

The Seattle Times Article says that an amendment has already been entered into the defense spending bill. The US congress will not let the MAX die.


"Wicker’s amendment is understood to be a placeholder. It stipulates a new date of Sept. 30, 2024, before compliance with the crew alerting standard would become a requirement.
That date could be modified later in the legislative process when the House weighs in."

travaz wrote:

The Seattle Times Article says that an amendment has already been entered into the defense spending bill. The US congress will not let the MAX die.


"Wicker’s amendment is understood to be a placeholder. It stipulates a new date of Sept. 30, 2024, before compliance with the crew alerting standard would become a requirement.
That date could be modified later in the legislative process when the House weighs in."

I highly doubt that anyone in Congress will object to that amendment.

WN732 wrote:

MAX10 has too many orders to pull the plug on. It will happen.

The Boeing CEO said it from his mouth it could be canceled, we know it's white noise but that's what is on the record

USAirKid wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

More bad news for MAX 7 certification. The FAA is saying that Boeing is behind on submissions which may cause the December deadline to slip. What the hell is Boeing doing? That then puts the MAX 7 in the same boat as the MAX 10. Southwest must be concerned. If Boeing is willing to pull the plug on the MAX 10 I would assume they would do the same with the MAX 7. I don't think the congressional extension is going to be easy to obtain.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/faa- ... 02341.html

The link is broken.

The link should have been:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/faa-says ... 02341.html

and Reuters has updated the story:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-faa-sa ... 54474.html

Thanks for the update I appreciate it not sure what happened

Vctony wrote:

I highly doubt that anyone in Congress will object to that amendment.

I expect the calls for its denial to grow as this amendment becomes more public

USAirKid wrote:

INFINITI329 wrote:

More bad news for MAX 7 certification. The FAA is saying that Boeing is behind on submissions which may cause the December deadline to slip. What the hell is Boeing doing? That then puts the MAX 7 in the same boat as the MAX 10. Southwest must be concerned. If Boeing is willing to pull the plug on the MAX 10 I would assume they would do the same with the MAX 7. I don't think the congressional extension is going to be easy to obtain.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/faa- ... 02341.html

The link is broken.

The link should have been:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/faa-says ... 02341.html

and Reuters has updated the story:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-faa-sa ... 54474.html

Unless reporting was incorrect, the MAX7 test a/c was used to assist in the certification of the MAX8/9, if the FAA is saying the MAX7 has such a high percentage of certification documents missing, it would say to me that the certification requirements for the MAX7 is very different from the MAX8/9. Unless the FAA's thought is that it was a mistake to have the 7 assist in the recertification of the 8 and 9 and now they are quietly making up for that mistake? How could any variant of the MAX be so different other than a requirement for new crew alerting which unless I am mistaken again, is initially only mandatory on the 10. Interesting that no one is asking the FAA whether the 7 certification requirements are radically different from the 8/9 that Boeing is struggling and does not have adequate resources to complete.
We did have speculation that Boeing was trying to keep both together to pressure congress / FAA, but if the MAX7 is this far behind and conducted numerous test flights a year or two ago, imagine how far back the MAX10 is.....boggles the mind.

[*]

SXDFC wrote:

UA444 wrote:

What happened to N707SA and N700GS?

Either collecting dust or turned into beer cans.

Seems odd WN of all airlines didn’t save them

286 formally 471 was The Southwest 700 that went thru the wall in Chicago at Midway. 286 is still active i believe.

UA444 wrote:

What happened to N707SA and N700GS?

N700GS was last reported at VCV on 29 Dec 2020.
N707SA was parked at PAE from 31 Mar - 15 Apr 2022, before flying to BHM on 15 Apr.

Based on how quickly N711HK (the former Herbert Kelleher retrojet) was broken up at BHM (it entered BHM on 11 Mar 2022 and was reportedly no longer there by May), I wouldn't be surprised if N707SA has already been broken up.

A bit sad seeing the first NG in revenue service and the prototype NG ending up like this.

AVENSAB727 wrote:

https://twitter.com/itripreport/status/1574816714151411712?s=46&t=AgSznkCrvKBPUJm4dxqa2Q

https://twitter.com/aeroimageschris/sta ... UJm4dxqa2Q

The Desert Gold retro has rolled out of paint!

Man I really wish they'd explain why they did this modified classic livery and not the original one, even on the -700s beforehand. For instance, N714CB at one point until mid 2013 had white outlines on the windows that were removed later that year... so they deliberately changed it, it's not like they forgot.



At least Canyon Blue will be as we know it.

Busy MAX delivery schedule. 3 delivered on the 30th and 1 on the 27th.

21 aircraft since start of August delivered

ChetManly24 wrote:

Busy MAX delivery schedule. 3 delivered on the 30th and 1 on the 27th.

21 aircraft since start of August delivered

Amazing. Now the 29 retired aircraft are accounted for and the fleet is now about 3-4 frames larger give or take?

How many aircraft are still parked waiting to be brought onto property? One pilot said ~75. Can anyone clarify?

SWADawg wrote:

av8tiongeek wrote:

How many aircraft are still parked waiting to be brought onto property? One pilot said ~75. Can anyone clarify?

If by parked you mean aircraft that Southwest parked due to the pandemic. The number is pretty much zero at this point. Any that still are parked at this point will be retired and scrapped. If you’re talking about new deliveries that haven’t been delivered from Boeing. I have no idea.

New deliveries.

[threeid][/threeid]

av8tiongeek wrote:

SWADawg wrote:

av8tiongeek wrote:

How many aircraft are still parked waiting to be brought onto property? One pilot said ~75. Can anyone clarify?

If by parked you mean aircraft that Southwest parked due to the pandemic. The number is pretty much zero at this point. Any that still are parked at this point will be retired and scrapped. If you’re talking about new deliveries that haven’t been delivered from Boeing. I have no idea.

New deliveries.

Southwest has zero aircraft in storage.

14 B737-7 Max have been built waiting on AOC.

There are 6 B737-8 Max NTU by SpiceJet in various stages of modification for SWA.

That’s it.

WN is restarting BUR-PDX, 1x daily on 2/19/23 (started in 2019): https://www.google.com/travel/flights/b ... 9Cdz0SAggD

Looks like the route was just loaded into their schedule this weekend, so I'm willing to bet that there could be other new routes in the schedule.