Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
cathay747 wrote:HNY everyone!
Anybody think AA might ever order the 787-10 to fill the gap between the -9 and the 77W?
JohanTally wrote:cathay747 wrote:HNY everyone!
Anybody think AA might ever order the 787-10 to fill the gap between the -9 and the 77W?
Once the 77E gets a defined retirement schedule it would be a logical replacement for TATL and South America routes needing capacity but under 5000nm. There aren't enough 789s on order to replace the 77E fleet.
ContinentalEWR wrote:JohanTally wrote:cathay747 wrote:HNY everyone!
Anybody think AA might ever order the 787-10 to fill the gap between the -9 and the 77W?
Once the 77E gets a defined retirement schedule it would be a logical replacement for TATL and South America routes needing capacity but under 5000nm. There aren't enough 789s on order to replace the 77E fleet.
Sounds about right, but a lot will depend on how Boeing and AA manage the delays on the existing 788-789 orders. While AA has gone the fleet simplification route with the 777/787 on wide bodies, it is not entirely unlikely that Airbus could offer a deal on some sort of wide body down the road, but the 787-10 would fit nicely into a 77E replacement for most, but not all, of the 77E routes AA flies.
JohanTally wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:JohanTally wrote:Once the 77E gets a defined retirement schedule it would be a logical replacement for TATL and South America routes needing capacity but under 5000nm. There aren't enough 789s on order to replace the 77E fleet.
Sounds about right, but a lot will depend on how Boeing and AA manage the delays on the existing 788-789 orders. While AA has gone the fleet simplification route with the 777/787 on wide bodies, it is not entirely unlikely that Airbus could offer a deal on some sort of wide body down the road, but the 787-10 would fit nicely into a 77E replacement for most, but not all, of the 77E routes AA flies.
If the 787 issue lingers they could always bring 15 332s out of the desert but it would be a task without the simulators anymore.
JohanTally wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:JohanTally wrote:Once the 77E gets a defined retirement schedule it would be a logical replacement for TATL and South America routes needing capacity but under 5000nm. There aren't enough 789s on order to replace the 77E fleet.
Sounds about right, but a lot will depend on how Boeing and AA manage the delays on the existing 788-789 orders. While AA has gone the fleet simplification route with the 777/787 on wide bodies, it is not entirely unlikely that Airbus could offer a deal on some sort of wide body down the road, but the 787-10 would fit nicely into a 77E replacement for most, but not all, of the 77E routes AA flies.
If the 787 issue lingers they could always bring 15 332s out of the desert but it would be a task without the simulators anymore.
ContinentalEWR wrote:JohanTally wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:
Sounds about right, but a lot will depend on how Boeing and AA manage the delays on the existing 788-789 orders. While AA has gone the fleet simplification route with the 777/787 on wide bodies, it is not entirely unlikely that Airbus could offer a deal on some sort of wide body down the road, but the 787-10 would fit nicely into a 77E replacement for most, but not all, of the 77E routes AA flies.
If the 787 issue lingers they could always bring 15 332s out of the desert but it would be a task without the simulators anymore.
No, they really can't. The A332 fleet is gone for good. Maintenance, flight crews to operate them gone too.
JohanTally wrote:The 787 production issues expose airlines that don't have a diversified widebody fleet.
JohanTally wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:JohanTally wrote:If the 787 issue lingers they could always bring 15 332s out of the desert but it would be a task without the simulators anymore.
No, they really can't. The A332 fleet is gone for good. Maintenance, flight crews to operate them gone too.
I don't see really any scenario they would come back but you mentioned a possible Airbus order which would be much more complex than bringing the relatively young fleet of 332s out of storage. The 787 production issues expose airlines that don't have a diversified widebody fleet. This summer is going to put a lot of strain on the AA 77E fleet that is approaching an age where reliability can start to suffer. Maybe looking for some younger RR powered 77Es would be an option but without substantial business travel recovery used 77Ws wouldn't be needed.
MIflyer12 wrote:JohanTally wrote:The 787 production issues expose airlines that don't have a diversified widebody fleet.
The diversified fleet idea is a persistent a.net wet-dream. It offers little value relative to cost. If there are design and manufacturing issues, carriers will stick the manufacturers with the bill. Carriers aren't going to suffer the costs of fragmented pilot groups, parts inventories and scheduling issues for a generation over minor remaining costs. Which, among the world's top 15 carriers, is crying 'We need a diversified fleet' to minimize risks'? Nobody.
MIflyer12 wrote:JohanTally wrote:The 787 production issues expose airlines that don't have a diversified widebody fleet.
The diversified fleet idea is a persistent a.net wet-dream. It offers little value relative to cost. If there are design and manufacturing issues, carriers will stick the manufacturers with the bill. Carriers aren't going to suffer the costs of fragmented pilot groups, parts inventories and scheduling issues for a generation over minor remaining costs. Which, among the world's top 15 carriers, is crying 'We need a diversified fleet' to minimize risks'? Nobody.
washingtonflyer wrote:What is the current status of the used 772 market? Specifically the 772 market with Trent engines....
JohanTally wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:JohanTally wrote:The 787 production issues expose airlines that don't have a diversified widebody fleet.
The diversified fleet idea is a persistent a.net wet-dream. It offers little value relative to cost. If there are design and manufacturing issues, carriers will stick the manufacturers with the bill. Carriers aren't going to suffer the costs of fragmented pilot groups, parts inventories and scheduling issues for a generation over minor remaining costs. Which, among the world's top 15 carriers, is crying 'We need a diversified fleet' to minimize risks'? Nobody.
You should tell QR to stop bringing aircraft out of storage to replace grounded A350s because they can just stick Airbus with the bill. AA has admitted it had to drastically scale back S22 but obviously long-term a simplified fleet should be beneficial unless they consistently can't fly the schedule they intended to due to aircraft availability.
ThunderDome wrote:JohanTally wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:
The diversified fleet idea is a persistent a.net wet-dream. It offers little value relative to cost. If there are design and manufacturing issues, carriers will stick the manufacturers with the bill. Carriers aren't going to suffer the costs of fragmented pilot groups, parts inventories and scheduling issues for a generation over minor remaining costs. Which, among the world's top 15 carriers, is crying 'We need a diversified fleet' to minimize risks'? Nobody.
You should tell QR to stop bringing aircraft out of storage to replace grounded A350s because they can just stick Airbus with the bill. AA has admitted it had to drastically scale back S22 but obviously long-term a simplified fleet should be beneficial unless they consistently can't fly the schedule they intended to due to aircraft availability.
Is QR bringing back aircraft out of storage that they have no pilots for, no F/A's for, minimal if any parts for, and minimal of any qualified AMT's for? It one thing to bring back aircraft you have in storage that your currently flying that type for, than to bring in one you have zero support for.
JohanTally wrote:ThunderDome wrote:JohanTally wrote:You should tell QR to stop bringing aircraft out of storage to replace grounded A350s because they can just stick Airbus with the bill. AA has admitted it had to drastically scale back S22 but obviously long-term a simplified fleet should be beneficial unless they consistently can't fly the schedule they intended to due to aircraft availability.
Is QR bringing back aircraft out of storage that they have no pilots for, no F/A's for, minimal if any parts for, and minimal of any qualified AMT's for? It one thing to bring back aircraft you have in storage that your currently flying that type for, than to bring in one you have zero support for.
QR was not planning on returning the A380 to service and had no pilots current on the aircraft type.
ahj2000 wrote:JohanTally wrote:ThunderDome wrote:
Is QR bringing back aircraft out of storage that they have no pilots for, no F/A's for, minimal if any parts for, and minimal of any qualified AMT's for? It one thing to bring back aircraft you have in storage that your currently flying that type for, than to bring in one you have zero support for.
QR was not planning on returning the A380 to service and had no pilots current on the aircraft type.
Solution to the problem: Bring back the 333...with a 339 order on the backside so that the pilot retraining isn't a waste. In a few years, those 15 333 become a bunch of 339N
/s
JohanTally wrote:ThunderDome wrote:JohanTally wrote:You should tell QR to stop bringing aircraft out of storage to replace grounded A350s because they can just stick Airbus with the bill. AA has admitted it had to drastically scale back S22 but obviously long-term a simplified fleet should be beneficial unless they consistently can't fly the schedule they intended to due to aircraft availability.
Is QR bringing back aircraft out of storage that they have no pilots for, no F/A's for, minimal if any parts for, and minimal of any qualified AMT's for? It one thing to bring back aircraft you have in storage that your currently flying that type for, than to bring in one you have zero support for.
QR was not planning on returning the A380 to service and had no pilots current on the aircraft type.
ThunderDome wrote:JohanTally wrote:ThunderDome wrote:
Is QR bringing back aircraft out of storage that they have no pilots for, no F/A's for, minimal if any parts for, and minimal of any qualified AMT's for? It one thing to bring back aircraft you have in storage that your currently flying that type for, than to bring in one you have zero support for.
QR was not planning on returning the A380 to service and had no pilots current on the aircraft type.
What about the rest of the support for the A380? i.e. parts, maintenance personnel? My understanding is its not an overly long process to get pilots qualified, though I could be wrong. But if you have no parts, and no SIMS, you have no support for the aircraft.
rising wrote:Sorry if I missed this... does anyone know when the older some odd 30 738s that were in storage are coming back online? How long does it take to get the Kodiak and then placed into service? And where are those mods being done? Tulsa? Or a 3rd party? Thanks!
JohanTally wrote:ThunderDome wrote:JohanTally wrote:QR was not planning on returning the A380 to service and had no pilots current on the aircraft type.
What about the rest of the support for the A380? i.e. parts, maintenance personnel? My understanding is its not an overly long process to get pilots qualified, though I could be wrong. But if you have no parts, and no SIMS, you have no support for the aircraft.
We are talking about the A330 which is one of the most common widebody aircraft on the market and has an extensive network of parts and ancillary support. Much easier to get pilots and mechanics up to speed on an airframe that has over 1500 frames built and is still in production with the MRTT and the NEO that shares a lot of commonality. The lack of simulators is an obstacle but not insurmountable.
JohanTally wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:JohanTally wrote:The 787 production issues expose airlines that don't have a diversified widebody fleet.
The diversified fleet idea is a persistent a.net wet-dream. It offers little value relative to cost. If there are design and manufacturing issues, carriers will stick the manufacturers with the bill. Carriers aren't going to suffer the costs of fragmented pilot groups, parts inventories and scheduling issues for a generation over minor remaining costs. Which, among the world's top 15 carriers, is crying 'We need a diversified fleet' to minimize risks'? Nobody.
You should tell QR to stop bringing aircraft out of storage to replace grounded A350s because they can just stick Airbus with the bill. AA has admitted it had to drastically scale back S22 but obviously long-term a simplified fleet should be beneficial unless they consistently can't fly the schedule they intended to due to aircraft availability.
ThunderDome wrote:JohanTally wrote:ThunderDome wrote:
What about the rest of the support for the A380? i.e. parts, maintenance personnel? My understanding is its not an overly long process to get pilots qualified, though I could be wrong. But if you have no parts, and no SIMS, you have no support for the aircraft.
We are talking about the A330 which is one of the most common widebody aircraft on the market and has an extensive network of parts and ancillary support. Much easier to get pilots and mechanics up to speed on an airframe that has over 1500 frames built and is still in production with the MRTT and the NEO that shares a lot of commonality. The lack of simulators is an obstacle but not insurmountable.
Yes there is still support out there for both airframe types, but again is that support at the airline? YES/NO. AA seems to have decided that it is a better decision to not bring them back and spending the money to support the aircraft. So instead they will fly less on the International route aspect. That is the decision they have made.
MLIAA wrote:There are still 7 ex-Delta 777-200ERs sitting in VCV, if AA needs these they could be picked up cheaply and then no oddball parts and training would need done for the A330.
MLIAA wrote:There are still 7 ex-Delta 777-200ERs sitting in VCV, if AA needs these they could be picked up cheaply and then no oddball parts and training would need done for the A330.
FLALEFTY wrote:MLIAA wrote:There are still 7 ex-Delta 777-200ERs sitting in VCV, if AA needs these they could be picked up cheaply and then no oddball parts and training would need done for the A330.
The DL tranche of 7 B77E's were all delivered in 1999, so they might be considered to be a little old. I think a more likely possibility for AA would be to pick up additional B77W's that are currently available. I'm sure lessors would be willing to cut some nice deals to get those early lease return B77W's out of the desert and back generating lease payments.
AA still has 13 more B788s and 30 more B789s on order. Once Boeing gets their act together and starts delivering B787s, AA will have 52 B789s and 37 B788s in their fleet when the current orders play out. By comparison, AA has 47 B77Es, plus they also previously had 9 A333s, 15 A332s & 17 B763ERs that were retired as a result of the pandemic.
FLALEFTY wrote:MLIAA wrote:There are still 7 ex-Delta 777-200ERs sitting in VCV, if AA needs these they could be picked up cheaply and then no oddball parts and training would need done for the A330.
The DL tranche of 7 B77E's were all delivered in 1999, so they might be considered to be a little old. I think a more likely possibility for AA would be to pick up additional B77W's that are currently available. I'm sure lessors would be willing to cut some nice deals to get those early lease return B77W's out of the desert and back generating lease payments.
AA still has 13 more B788s and 30 more B789s on order. Once Boeing gets their act together and starts delivering B787s, AA will have 52 B789s and 37 B788s in their fleet when the current orders play out. By comparison, AA has 47 B77Es, plus they also previously had 9 A333s, 15 A332s & 17 B763ERs that were retired as a result of the pandemic.
MLIAA wrote:There are still 7 ex-Delta 777-200ERs sitting in VCV, if AA needs these they could be picked up cheaply and then no oddball parts and training would need done for the A330.
SXDFC wrote:What’s AAs plans for the A319/A320? Would AA perhaps be interested in the A320neo or any other of the MAX variants?
PHLspecial wrote:SXDFC wrote:What’s AAs plans for the A319/A320? Would AA perhaps be interested in the A320neo or any other of the MAX variants?
Wont AA dream scenario would be only two narrowbody types? The Max8 and A321neo? Unless the Max8 can't fly the A319 missions. I don't think AA would get rid of the A319 or A320 until 2030.
USAirKid wrote:PHLspecial wrote:SXDFC wrote:What’s AAs plans for the A319/A320? Would AA perhaps be interested in the A320neo or any other of the MAX variants?
Wont AA dream scenario would be only two narrowbody types? The Max8 and A321neo? Unless the Max8 can't fly the A319 missions. I don't think AA would get rid of the A319 or A320 until 2030.
AA has previously said that the A319 fits a niche for them. Thats why they acquired more of the type from F9.
I'm guessing part of that is the A319 requires one less FA than the 737-800, 737-8, A321, or A321 Neo.
You can also see AA's plans through what fleets have been refitted and/or grown and which haven't. All of the narrowbody fleets meet that except the A320.
Rookie87 wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:MLIAA wrote:There are still 7 ex-Delta 777-200ERs sitting in VCV, if AA needs these they could be picked up cheaply and then no oddball parts and training would need done for the A330.
The DL tranche of 7 B77E's were all delivered in 1999, so they might be considered to be a little old. I think a more likely possibility for AA would be to pick up additional B77W's that are currently available. I'm sure lessors would be willing to cut some nice deals to get those early lease return B77W's out of the desert and back generating lease payments.
AA still has 13 more B788s and 30 more B789s on order. Once Boeing gets their act together and starts delivering B787s, AA will have 52 B789s and 37 B788s in their fleet when the current orders play out. By comparison, AA has 47 B77Es, plus they also previously had 9 A333s, 15 A332s & 17 B763ERs that were retired as a result of the pandemic.
Question… if I remember how to count…this should mean the current wide body count is equal to the previous wide body count no?? (Before the 787 deliveries resume)
How many intl routes were the 757s deployed on that are being cut/reduced? Doesn’t seem like it should be much…
Off the top of my head, new planned INTL wide body routes:
JFK:
ATH
DEL
DOH
TLV
SCL
DFW:
TLV
AKL?
LAX:
CHC
SEA:
BLR
~LHR
Can’t remember what else and not sure if LHR at SEA and BOS should be counted by hey, between new and cut what’s the real count??
ContinentalEWR wrote:
That would make the DL 77E's roughly the same age as the AA 77Es as the AA ones were ordered in 1996 and deliveries stretched from 1999 to 2002.
JohanTally wrote:The 8 NZ 77E built 05-07 are much younger than the DL frames and are RR powered. I don't believe NZ has plans to return them to service and they already were to be replaced by the 78J.
FLALEFTY wrote:Rookie87 wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:
The DL tranche of 7 B77E's were all delivered in 1999, so they might be considered to be a little old. I think a more likely possibility for AA would be to pick up additional B77W's that are currently available. I'm sure lessors would be willing to cut some nice deals to get those early lease return B77W's out of the desert and back generating lease payments.
AA still has 13 more B788s and 30 more B789s on order. Once Boeing gets their act together and starts delivering B787s, AA will have 52 B789s and 37 B788s in their fleet when the current orders play out. By comparison, AA has 47 B77Es, plus they also previously had 9 A333s, 15 A332s & 17 B763ERs that were retired as a result of the pandemic.
Question… if I remember how to count…this should mean the current wide body count is equal to the previous wide body count no?? (Before the 787 deliveries resume)
How many intl routes were the 757s deployed on that are being cut/reduced? Doesn’t seem like it should be much…
Off the top of my head, new planned INTL wide body routes:
JFK:
ATH
DEL
DOH
TLV
SCL
DFW:
TLV
AKL?
LAX:
CHC
SEA:
BLR
~LHR
Can’t remember what else and not sure if LHR at SEA and BOS should be counted by hey, between new and cut what’s the real count??
Once AA's current B787 orders deliver out (probably by 2025 or 2026) they will have a total of 89 of them in the fleet. Add in the 20 B77Ws that should stick around through the end of this decade and their wide body fleet will consist of 109 aircraft. Just prior to COVID AA had 24 A330s, 17 B763ERs, 47 B77Es and 20 B77Ws, or a total of 108 wide body aircraft. It looks like AA will have all their wide body needs covered in the near future with the new Boeing deliveries. However, I imagine that some, or all of the B77Es will stick around for at least the next 5 to 8 years.ContinentalEWR wrote:
That would make the DL 77E's roughly the same age as the AA 77Es as the AA ones were ordered in 1996 and deliveries stretched from 1999 to 2002.
True, but that would assume that DL would be willing to help out AA, one of their bitter rivals dating back to the days when they both used to duke it out at DFW.JohanTally wrote:The 8 NZ 77E built 05-07 are much younger than the DL frames and are RR powered. I don't believe NZ has plans to return them to service and they already were to be replaced by the 78J.
Those might be attractive options for AA if they need them. NZ has most of these B77Es stored at VCV awaiting either airline buyers, or the scrapper.
USAirKid wrote:PHLspecial wrote:SXDFC wrote:What’s AAs plans for the A319/A320? Would AA perhaps be interested in the A320neo or any other of the MAX variants?
Wont AA dream scenario would be only two narrowbody types? The Max8 and A321neo? Unless the Max8 can't fly the A319 missions. I don't think AA would get rid of the A319 or A320 until 2030.
AA has previously said that the A319 fits a niche for them. Thats why they acquired more of the type from F9.
I'm guessing part of that is the A319 requires one less FA than the 737-800, 737-8, A321, or A321 Neo.
ContinentalEWR wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:Rookie87 wrote:
Question… if I remember how to count…this should mean the current wide body count is equal to the previous wide body count no?? (Before the 787 deliveries resume)
How many intl routes were the 757s deployed on that are being cut/reduced? Doesn’t seem like it should be much…
Off the top of my head, new planned INTL wide body routes:
JFK:
ATH
DEL
DOH
TLV
SCL
DFW:
TLV
AKL?
LAX:
CHC
SEA:
BLR
~LHR
Can’t remember what else and not sure if LHR at SEA and BOS should be counted by hey, between new and cut what’s the real count??
Once AA's current B787 orders deliver out (probably by 2025 or 2026) they will have a total of 89 of them in the fleet. Add in the 20 B77Ws that should stick around through the end of this decade and their wide body fleet will consist of 109 aircraft. Just prior to COVID AA had 24 A330s, 17 B763ERs, 47 B77Es and 20 B77Ws, or a total of 108 wide body aircraft. It looks like AA will have all their wide body needs covered in the near future with the new Boeing deliveries. However, I imagine that some, or all of the B77Es will stick around for at least the next 5 to 8 years.ContinentalEWR wrote:
That would make the DL 77E's roughly the same age as the AA 77Es as the AA ones were ordered in 1996 and deliveries stretched from 1999 to 2002.
True, but that would assume that DL would be willing to help out AA, one of their bitter rivals dating back to the days when they both used to duke it out at DFW.JohanTally wrote:The 8 NZ 77E built 05-07 are much younger than the DL frames and are RR powered. I don't believe NZ has plans to return them to service and they already were to be replaced by the 78J.
Those might be attractive options for AA if they need them. NZ has most of these B77Es stored at VCV awaiting either airline buyers, or the scrapper.
The rivalry talk is nonsense. If there is money to be made, then DL, if they still own those 77Es, will offload them. The DFW issue is a non starter. AA was always much larger there, by a wide margin, and DL did itself a favor and a win by de hubbing DFW. Previously owned aircraft entering the AA fleet represent a tiny fraction of the overall fleet, but it is not unheard of. Putting aside merged fleets (US/AA), AA has taken I believe 1 or 2 former Aeromexico 77Es, and a handful of A319s from Frontier.
SESGDL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:
Once AA's current B787 orders deliver out (probably by 2025 or 2026) they will have a total of 89 of them in the fleet. Add in the 20 B77Ws that should stick around through the end of this decade and their wide body fleet will consist of 109 aircraft. Just prior to COVID AA had 24 A330s, 17 B763ERs, 47 B77Es and 20 B77Ws, or a total of 108 wide body aircraft. It looks like AA will have all their wide body needs covered in the near future with the new Boeing deliveries. However, I imagine that some, or all of the B77Es will stick around for at least the next 5 to 8 years.
True, but that would assume that DL would be willing to help out AA, one of their bitter rivals dating back to the days when they both used to duke it out at DFW.
Those might be attractive options for AA if they need them. NZ has most of these B77Es stored at VCV awaiting either airline buyers, or the scrapper.
The rivalry talk is nonsense. If there is money to be made, then DL, if they still own those 77Es, will offload them. The DFW issue is a non starter. AA was always much larger there, by a wide margin, and DL did itself a favor and a win by de hubbing DFW. Previously owned aircraft entering the AA fleet represent a tiny fraction of the overall fleet, but it is not unheard of. Putting aside merged fleets (US/AA), AA has taken I believe 1 or 2 former Aeromexico 77Es, and a handful of A319s from Frontier.
I don’t believe AA has ever taken 777s except directly from Boeing. AM 777s were GE powered while AA’s are RR powered.
Jeremy
FLALEFTY wrote:Rookie87 wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:
The DL tranche of 7 B77E's were all delivered in 1999, so they might be considered to be a little old. I think a more likely possibility for AA would be to pick up additional B77W's that are currently available. I'm sure lessors would be willing to cut some nice deals to get those early lease return B77W's out of the desert and back generating lease payments.
AA still has 13 more B788s and 30 more B789s on order. Once Boeing gets their act together and starts delivering B787s, AA will have 52 B789s and 37 B788s in their fleet when the current orders play out. By comparison, AA has 47 B77Es, plus they also previously had 9 A333s, 15 A332s & 17 B763ERs that were retired as a result of the pandemic.
JohanTally wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:Rookie87 wrote:
AA had many more 763 until the were sold off as 788 and 789 came on property at almost a 1 to 1 rate. Right before Covid the AA widebody fleet would of been closer to 140 frames and the 788s were to replace the last of the 763s. That would of kept the count close to 140 but instead planes were retired without another frame to make up the difference. Now S22 is being cut down and it's hard to forecast their long term international strategy. The XLR will probably arrive after S23 and once it does arrive it could help free up some widebody frames for growth.
SESGDL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:
Once AA's current B787 orders deliver out (probably by 2025 or 2026) they will have a total of 89 of them in the fleet. Add in the 20 B77Ws that should stick around through the end of this decade and their wide body fleet will consist of 109 aircraft. Just prior to COVID AA had 24 A330s, 17 B763ERs, 47 B77Es and 20 B77Ws, or a total of 108 wide body aircraft. It looks like AA will have all their wide body needs covered in the near future with the new Boeing deliveries. However, I imagine that some, or all of the B77Es will stick around for at least the next 5 to 8 years.
True, but that would assume that DL would be willing to help out AA, one of their bitter rivals dating back to the days when they both used to duke it out at DFW.
Those might be attractive options for AA if they need them. NZ has most of these B77Es stored at VCV awaiting either airline buyers, or the scrapper.
The rivalry talk is nonsense. If there is money to be made, then DL, if they still own those 77Es, will offload them. The DFW issue is a non starter. AA was always much larger there, by a wide margin, and DL did itself a favor and a win by de hubbing DFW. Previously owned aircraft entering the AA fleet represent a tiny fraction of the overall fleet, but it is not unheard of. Putting aside merged fleets (US/AA), AA has taken I believe 1 or 2 former Aeromexico 77Es, and a handful of A319s from Frontier.
I don’t believe AA has ever taken 777s except directly from Boeing. AM 777s were GE powered while AA’s are RR powered.
Jeremy
MIflyer12 wrote:USAirKid wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Wont AA dream scenario would be only two narrowbody types? The Max8 and A321neo? Unless the Max8 can't fly the A319 missions. I don't think AA would get rid of the A319 or A320 until 2030.
AA has previously said that the A319 fits a niche for them. Thats why they acquired more of the type from F9.
I'm guessing part of that is the A319 requires one less FA than the 737-800, 737-8, A321, or A321 Neo.
That's not it. 128 seats/3 FA's isn't a better ratio than the 738's 172 seats/4 FAs, and worse than the A321's 187/4. I'm guessing AA has enough routes with low price elasticity of demand (so the extra seats can be sold only at heavily discounted prices) to justify something mainline smaller than a MAX8. WN has 73G (and MAX7s coming, some day); DL has 319s, 717s, 221s and 223s. It's UA that has been very cautious, not buying anything 73G/319-size new in a decade.
I'd love an AA pilot or dispatcher to outline what the A319 can do that a MAX8 can't, and where those routes exist today in the AA system.
SESGDL wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:FLALEFTY wrote:
Once AA's current B787 orders deliver out (probably by 2025 or 2026) they will have a total of 89 of them in the fleet. Add in the 20 B77Ws that should stick around through the end of this decade and their wide body fleet will consist of 109 aircraft. Just prior to COVID AA had 24 A330s, 17 B763ERs, 47 B77Es and 20 B77Ws, or a total of 108 wide body aircraft. It looks like AA will have all their wide body needs covered in the near future with the new Boeing deliveries. However, I imagine that some, or all of the B77Es will stick around for at least the next 5 to 8 years.
True, but that would assume that DL would be willing to help out AA, one of their bitter rivals dating back to the days when they both used to duke it out at DFW.
Those might be attractive options for AA if they need them. NZ has most of these B77Es stored at VCV awaiting either airline buyers, or the scrapper.
The rivalry talk is nonsense. If there is money to be made, then DL, if they still own those 77Es, will offload them. The DFW issue is a non starter. AA was always much larger there, by a wide margin, and DL did itself a favor and a win by de hubbing DFW. Previously owned aircraft entering the AA fleet represent a tiny fraction of the overall fleet, but it is not unheard of. Putting aside merged fleets (US/AA), AA has taken I believe 1 or 2 former Aeromexico 77Es, and a handful of A319s from Frontier.
I don’t believe AA has ever taken 777s except directly from Boeing. AM 777s were GE powered while AA’s are RR powered.
Jeremy
MLIAA wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:USAirKid wrote:
AA has previously said that the A319 fits a niche for them. Thats why they acquired more of the type from F9.
I'm guessing part of that is the A319 requires one less FA than the 737-800, 737-8, A321, or A321 Neo.
That's not it. 128 seats/3 FA's isn't a better ratio than the 738's 172 seats/4 FAs, and worse than the A321's 187/4. I'm guessing AA has enough routes with low price elasticity of demand (so the extra seats can be sold only at heavily discounted prices) to justify something mainline smaller than a MAX8. WN has 73G (and MAX7s coming, some day); DL has 319s, 717s, 221s and 223s. It's UA that has been very cautious, not buying anything 73G/319-size new in a decade.
I'd love an AA pilot or dispatcher to outline what the A319 can do that a MAX8 can't, and where those routes exist today in the AA system.
For a start, EYW, EGE, JAC (I think) and a few of the near South America see quite a bit of 319s and the 738/7M8 can’t do these. The 319 fits a size niche as well, on a route like STL-BOS or LGA-FCA, 172 seats might be a bit much.
AA has shown a liking for this size of airplane, note how AA grabbed the F9 319s. I could very much see a MAX7 or 319neo order at some point.
MIflyer12 wrote:USAirKid wrote:PHLspecial wrote:Wont AA dream scenario would be only two narrowbody types? The Max8 and A321neo? Unless the Max8 can't fly the A319 missions. I don't think AA would get rid of the A319 or A320 until 2030.
AA has previously said that the A319 fits a niche for them. Thats why they acquired more of the type from F9.
I'm guessing part of that is the A319 requires one less FA than the 737-800, 737-8, A321, or A321 Neo.
That's not it. 128 seats/3 FA's isn't a better ratio than the 738's 172 seats/4 FAs, and worse than the A321's 187/4. I'm guessing AA has enough routes with low price elasticity of demand (so the extra seats can be sold only at heavily discounted prices) to justify something mainline smaller than a MAX8.
USAirKid wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:USAirKid wrote:
AA has previously said that the A319 fits a niche for them. Thats why they acquired more of the type from F9.
I'm guessing part of that is the A319 requires one less FA than the 737-800, 737-8, A321, or A321 Neo.
That's not it. 128 seats/3 FA's isn't a better ratio than the 738's 172 seats/4 FAs, and worse than the A321's 187/4. I'm guessing AA has enough routes with low price elasticity of demand (so the extra seats can be sold only at heavily discounted prices) to justify something mainline smaller than a MAX8.
The low price elasticity of demand was my point. AA likely has enough routes that will profitably fill 127 seats, but not 172 or 187 seats. Sure FA's aren't insanely expensive, but why increase your trip costs in that area by 25% for no revenue benefit?