With all the goings on in the world why does AA want to fly to India, fueling a 77W for 16 hour flights cost lots of dough. Couldn't the planes be better used for an extra frequency to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires ? Perhaps a daily trip to a European destination. India well flown by Emirates, Qatar, British Airways, and Lufthansa, this part of the world is not a strength for AA.

If AA has such desires to fly to an exotic destination with two 77W I can think of one far away from Russian airspace and only 14 hours from JFK, that being Johannesburg, South Africa.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

dcajet wrote:

rjbesikof wrote:

-I would have thought South America would be strong in the winter.

MVD is a very small market with mostly seasonal demand, more so in these pandemic times.

Montevideo will be seasonal from October to March. It will run 3 x weekly, except at the peak holiday travel period between mid-December and early January when it will go daily.

So nothing new with MVD then. Just a bit of PR positive spin in an otherwise long list of service cuts.

jfk777 wrote:

With all the goings on in the world why does AA want to fly to India, fueling a 77W for 16 hour flights cost lots of dough. Couldn't the planes be better used for an extra frequency to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires ? Perhaps a daily trip to a European destination. India well flown by Emirates, Qatar, British Airways, and Lufthansa, this part of the world is not a strength for AA.

If AA has such desires to fly to an exotic destination with two 77W I can think of one far away from Russian airspace and only 14 hours from JFK, that being Johannesburg, South Africa.

Perhaps AA sees the killing that United has made with India and just wants to take advantage of AI's lackluster offering since they are the only other nonstop carrier to DEL out of JFK. It's no secret that India is a lucrative market. Indian-Americans are generally rich. They are the highest-earning ethnic group in the US, with households of Indian ancestry earning over double the median US household income. That's more disposable income to use on lie-flat seats. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... d_ancestry

pilotkev1 wrote:

and to-be-inaugurated BLR operation.

We have been waiting for the to-be-inaugurated BLR operation for a couple of years now. I don't think AA will ever launch this route in the near future. Launch now delayed to Summer 2023.... keeps getting pushed back for one reason or another.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/american-dro ... 40305.html

USAirALB wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Today, AA announced some new additions to the NY market, citing the NEA. They include international service.

LGA-TUL
LGA-LIT
LGA-AVL
LGA-EYW
JFK-BDA - This is a return. AA flew JFK-BDA for decades.
JFK-MTY

LGA-AVL is odd...they just exited the market on 27 March as part of their Fall 2021 Network realignment.

JFK-MTY is an interesting add.

I presume all these routes are on American Eagle, correct?

USAirALB wrote:

LGA-AVL is odd...they just exited the market on 27 March as part of their Fall 2021 Network realignment.

What's odd is the timing...exit the market during the spring, summer, and much of the fall, and then return in early November?

pilotkev1 wrote:

At this point AA does not carry an FAR 117 AMOC for their Delhi operation and flight crew are limited to FAR117's 17hr duty period limit.

Conversely AA does carry an FAR 117 AMOC for their defunct HKG, and to-be-inaugurated BLR operation. Both AMOCs provide relief of up to 21hr duty period limits, depending on duty period start times.

What does “AMOC” in FAR 117 mean?

dcajet wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Today, AA announced some new additions to the NY market, citing the NEA. They include international service.

LGA-TUL
LGA-LIT
LGA-AVL
LGA-EYW
JFK-BDA - This is a return. AA flew JFK-BDA for decades.
JFK-MTY

LGA-AVL is odd...they just exited the market on 27 March as part of their Fall 2021 Network realignment.

JFK-MTY is an interesting add.

I presume all these routes are on American Eagle, correct?

I would think that all would be an E175, except for JFK-BDA which I bet will be a 738 and JFK-MTY will likely be an A319.

PilotJAY16 wrote:

pilotkev1 wrote:

At this point AA does not carry an FAR 117 AMOC for their Delhi operation and flight crew are limited to FAR117's 17hr duty period limit.

Conversely AA does carry an FAR 117 AMOC for their defunct HKG, and to-be-inaugurated BLR operation. Both AMOCs provide relief of up to 21hr duty period limits, depending on duty period start times.

What does “AMOC” in FAR 117 mean?

I know in general it means "Alternative Means of Compliance". I don't know AA's specific remedy, but it likely gives them relief to the Part 117 duty rules based on specific schedules (specific start times, augmented crews, extra rest built in, could all be ways of achieving this)

jfk777 wrote:

With all the goings on in the world why does AA want to fly to India, fueling a 77W for 16 hour flights cost lots of dough. Couldn't the planes be better used for an extra frequency to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires ? Perhaps a daily trip to a European destination. India well flown by Emirates, Qatar, British Airways, and Lufthansa, this part of the world is not a strength for AA.

If AA has such desires to fly to an exotic destination with two 77W I can think of one far away from Russian airspace and only 14 hours from JFK, that being Johannesburg, South Africa.

DEL has been profitable for AA, from what I’ve heard. Although loads are no indication of yield, the flight goes out full or close to full every evening. There are currently no plans to drop JFK-DEL. São Paulo isn’t doing as well as it used to post-Covid, and both GRU and EZE are well-served once daily from JFK on the 772. CDG is currently on the 77W, but scheduled to revert to the 772 again on August 15. This fall, only the 3 daily JFK-LHR flights scheduled for the winter season will be on 77W equipment, all other JFK international will be operated with the 772.

USAirALB wrote:

dcajet wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

LGA-AVL is odd...they just exited the market on 27 March as part of their Fall 2021 Network realignment.

JFK-MTY is an interesting add.

I presume all these routes are on American Eagle, correct?

I would think that all would be an E175, except for JFK-BDA which I bet will be a 738 and JFK-MTY will likely be an A319.

IIRC, pre pandemic, AM used to operate with the E190 on the JFK-MTY route.

Are they a full share in IAG?. If the other lines have extra capacity, use their metal on IB BA EI routes to free up extra 787s..

It's been rumored I believe by JonNYC that the AA 77W fleet are going in for maintenance this winter. We may be reading into the flights switching to the 77E due to demand when in fact the 77W fleet is going in for scheduled overhauls.

Any interior refreshes?

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Lots more international route cuts just announced:
DFW to LIM axed.

Interesting timing, as I was literally just looking at LIM-DFW/MIA routings for an upcoming work trip.

AA is currently offering (up to?) 3x daily out of LIM--daytime departures to MIA & DFW and a red-eye to MIA.

All of them are on 321Ns according to Flight Aware, whereas UA, DL, and LATAM (Lan) all offer 1x widebody service on 763s. Wonder if there's any chance AA will upguage equipment to MIA to a widebody once DFW drops?

RMTAviation wrote:

Any interior refreshes?

He didn't seem to have that info just that it looks like they would be rotating through heavy maintenance. If they were getting reconfigured it probably would be public knowledge by now but with the entire aircraft getting ripped apart it should get some level of refreshing.

https://mobile.twitter.com/xJonNYC/stat ... lr4lhHm0Vg

UALFAson wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Lots more international route cuts just announced:
DFW to LIM axed.

Interesting timing, as I was literally just looking at LIM-DFW/MIA routings for an upcoming work trip.

AA is currently offering (up to?) 3x daily out of LIM--daytime departures to MIA & DFW and a red-eye to MIA.

All of them are on 321Ns according to Flight Aware, whereas UA, DL, and LATAM (Lan) all offer 1x widebody service on 763s. Wonder if there's any chance AA will upguage equipment to MIA to a widebody once DFW drops?

Probably not. A few years ago AA management specifically said they send crappy planes to LIM because it is low yield.

UALFAson wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Lots more international route cuts just announced:
DFW to LIM axed.

Interesting timing, as I was literally just looking at LIM-DFW/MIA routings for an upcoming work trip.

AA is currently offering (up to?) 3x daily out of LIM--daytime departures to MIA & DFW and a red-eye to MIA.

All of them are on 321Ns according to Flight Aware, whereas UA, DL, and LATAM (Lan) all offer 1x widebody service on 763s. Wonder if there's any chance AA will upguage equipment to MIA to a widebody once DFW drops?

No need of widebody when they are increasing frequency. AA’s MIA-LIM increases to 4x daily from Nov.

NYCAAer wrote:

AA has discovered that JFK-DEL is not a premium heavy market and is more geared to VFR, hence AA is switching to the 772 in October. Pretty much the only market AA has where they can sell so many seats in the premium cabins is any point in the US to LHR.

sfojvjets wrote:

Perhaps AA sees the killing that United has made with India and just wants to take advantage of AI's lackluster offering since they are the only other nonstop carrier to DEL out of JFK. It's no secret that India is a lucrative market. Indian-Americans are generally rich. They are the highest-earning ethnic group in the US, with households of Indian ancestry earning over double the median US household income. That's more disposable income to use on lie-flat seats.

What are the lucrative, premium heavy US-India routes?

IFLYUA767 wrote:

As was stated previously AA doesn’t have any 787s at JFK. I don’t think it would be efficient to have one long haul international flight from JFK operated by a 789 while the rest are with the 77E and 77W. I also don’t know how many JFK-based F/A’s are trained on the 787.

A couple months ago JonNYC posted on Twitter that AA wants to increase service to India from JFK. I feel that BOM will probably be the next destination in India that AA flies to. I don’t think the 77W has the range to do JFK-BOM especially with no Russian overflight. I think that if JFK-BOM happens it will probably launch in 2024 which is when the next 789s are due to arrive. If that happens then I also think JFK-DEL could switch to a 789.

Based on your 2024 timeline, how would other additions to the India-U.S. routes affect how/when AA does further Indian expansion?

I ask, because while AA might be working through the shortages (and yes, 2024 is truly not that far away - and AA has no other option but to grow, slowly and hopefully profitably based on excess demand), DL has A350s, and UA has widebody potential to increase services to India (and some of the best Indian partners). While I applaud AA's move and do see them doing well - UA's Asian specialty has been impressively maintained, despite stalwarts/founding members/semi-competitive products of Star Alliance being based in the region. Could further adds (and if so, perhaps how) from either UA, or DL, affect AA's plans for JFK-BOM.

One more thought - could/would PHL-India be feasible? PHL-DEL-BOM-DEL-PHL could also solve the 787 base issue at JFK, but I can see that being aircraft intensive and/or not possible with the current shortage of 787s. Another interesting add would be ORD-DEL-JFK-DEL-ORD (and/or if AA can manage returning to ORD-India).

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:

AA may want to do more india in the future. That also could mean after Russian overflight access comes back.

Don't see that coming back anytime soon

mikejepp wrote:

If AA is giving up on LAX long haul, is there any chance that PHX could get some long haul pacific routes?

They should at least be able to try NRT/HND or SYD from PHX. It’s the 11th largest metro in the country and should at least have SOME service to Asia. Geographically it’s not great for Asia connections, but then again neither is Dallas.

questions wrote:

NYCAAer wrote:

AA has discovered that JFK-DEL is not a premium heavy market and is more geared to VFR, hence AA is switching to the 772 in October. Pretty much the only market AA has where they can sell so many seats in the premium cabins is any point in the US to LHR.

sfojvjets wrote:

Perhaps AA sees the killing that United has made with India and just wants to take advantage of AI's lackluster offering since they are the only other nonstop carrier to DEL out of JFK. It's no secret that India is a lucrative market. Indian-Americans are generally rich. They are the highest-earning ethnic group in the US, with households of Indian ancestry earning over double the median US household income. That's more disposable income to use on lie-flat seats.

What are the lucrative, premium heavy US-India routes?

BOM is more premium heavy because it’s the financial capital of India. I’m surprised Delta couldn’t make JFK-BOM work.

MLIAA wrote:

mikejepp wrote:

If AA is giving up on LAX long haul, is there any chance that PHX could get some long haul pacific routes?

They should at least be able to try NRT/HND or SYD from PHX. It’s the 11th largest metro in the country and should at least have SOME service to Asia. Geographically it’s not great for Asia connections, but then again neither is Dallas.

AA still codeshares with TN on LAX-PPT, CX on LAX-HKG, CZ on LAX-CAN, FJ on LAX-NAN, JL on LAX-KIX/HND/NRT, and QF on LAX-BNE/MEL/SYD.

AA can still get passengers to Australia, China, Fiji, Hong Kong, Japan, and Tahiti from LAX through flights operated by AA codeshare partners.

jfk777 wrote:

With all the goings on in the world why does AA want to fly to India, fueling a 77W for 16 hour flights cost lots of dough. Couldn't the planes be better used for an extra frequency to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires ? Perhaps a daily trip to a European destination. India well flown by Emirates, Qatar, British Airways, and Lufthansa, this part of the world is not a strength for AA.

If AA has such desires to fly to an exotic destination with two 77W I can think of one far away from Russian airspace and only 14 hours from JFK, that being Johannesburg, South Africa.

India can be lucrative, but it is tricky. Much of the traffic from the US to India is owned by the ME3, or at least EK and QR. The UA nonstops do well because they carry a lot of tech industry workers to and from, with POS in both directions. The EWR routes also do well because of the large Indian community in Northern New Jersey, and no one really wants to fly on Air India if they don't have to.

AA has stated JFK-DEL does very well, in spite of the stopovers in BGR on the DEL-JFK leg, which are less frequent now and more of an issue in winter, when headwinds are much stronger. Assuming the NEA stays in place and grows, AA will probably add JFK-BOM before it ever launches a BLR service, from anywhere, including SEA. That said, AA has a long history of not letting intercontinental routes mature and generally suspends them quickly if they don't perform, as they should I guess, so time will tell if JFK-India is the big success for AA that it has made it out to be. Part of me things AA is launching JFK-DOH to further tap into the South Asia market and with a big OW partner, as it does with BA and IB with the LHR and MAD hubs.

The JFK-DEL route is going 77E this winter because the 77Ws are going in for cycled maintenance. They have been heavily used during the pandemic for many domestic turns and their utilization increases and timing are putting them in the shop. GRU has actually been down gauged from JFK from 77W to 77E. US-Brazil is performing better, but is a far cry from what it once was. JFK-EZE on the 77E is enough for the market. The route is profitable but apart from a few weeks around the holiday season, where it could use a 77W, the 77E is more than enough and there is no need for AA to put another frequency there.

mikejepp wrote:

If AA is giving up on LAX long haul, is there any chance that PHX could get some long haul pacific routes?

If AA adds any Asia flights, it will most likely be from SEA. That is the only geographical hub that can compensate for the routings that do not make sense via DFW. The LAX buildup was only because AA lacked another West Coast hub, and AS was in bed with AS. Given the pulldowns in LAX (plus the reduction in gates due to T4 rebuild), I wouldn’t be surprised if AA tries to move one of their 2x daily LAX-HND frequencies from LAX to SEA, since JL does not have enough HND slots to dedicate for SEA. Additionally, ZipAir has launched 1x daily LAX-NRT giving them sufficient lift from LAX.

MLIAA wrote:

They should at least be able to try NRT/HND or SYD from PHX. It’s the 11th largest metro in the country and should at least have SOME service to Asia. Geographically it’s not great for Asia connections, but then again neither is Dallas.

Sure PHX might be populous, but its not exactly a sought-after international leisure or business destination. Not sure anything beyond the existing LHR flight would work, and even that is heavily reliant on hub connections for feed.
I've honestly not seen reports of demand for PHX from places like Australia or Japan(outside of spring training) during my days previous days AA. (I am an HP alumni)

jplatts wrote:

AA still codeshares with TN on LAX-PPT, CX on LAX-HKG, CZ on LAX-CAN, FJ on LAX-NAN, JL on LAX-KIX/HND/NRT, and QF on LAX-BNE/MEL/SYD.

AA can still get passengers to Australia, China, Fiji, Hong Kong, Japan, and Tahiti from LAX through flights operated by AA codeshare partners.

Sure, AA could in theory, but outside JL and QF where they have JVs, the other partners you mention like CX, CZ, FJ, TN are rather minor in the revenue department. AA likely makes pennies on any folks booked on those codeshares services. The really exist to work the otherway, for those partners to feed customers onto AA services in the U.S.
As explained in a townhall few years ago, codeshare tickets where flying on others metal outside of a formal JV partnership is not much of a business. AA basically acts as the travel agent reselling someone else's product.

onwFan wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if AA tries to move one of their 2x daily LAX-HND frequencies from LAX to SEA, since JL does not have enough HND slots to dedicate for SEA. Additionally, ZipAir has launched 1x daily LAX-NRT giving them sufficient lift from LAX.

Wont happen. It would involve the DOT, and surely DL and UA would oppose the move and seek to have the slots rewarded. Also for reference AA wanted another DFW-HND frequency in the past, so I'd suspect that would be higher up the list.
Additionally, JL could serve SEA-HND tomorrow if they wished. They simply would need to move one of their other authorized HND-US flights back to NRT.
And for Zip, it does nothing for AA or JL. Its not a codeshare to either, not part of OW, or have any marketing relationships.

janders wrote:

onwFan wrote:

I wouldn’t be surprised if AA tries to move one of their 2x daily LAX-HND frequencies from LAX to SEA, since JL does not have enough HND slots to dedicate for SEA. Additionally, ZipAir has launched 1x daily LAX-NRT giving them sufficient lift from LAX.

Wont happen. It would involve the DOT, and surely DL and UA would oppose the move and seek to have the slots rewarded. Also for reference AA wanted another DFW-HND frequency in the past, so I'd suspect that would be higher up the list.
Additionally, JL could serve SEA-HND tomorrow if they wished. They simply would need to move one of their other authorized HND-US flights back to NRT.
And for Zip, it does nothing for AA or JL. Its not a codeshare to either, not part of OW, or have any marketing relationships.

I know the process would involve the DOT. But nothing that says that AA would not win an award, especially citing the opportunities for feed at both HND and SEA. After all, there will certainly be a battle for HND slots soon. I cannot imagine DL flying MSP or PDX to HND for probably years (they are down to 3-4x weekly on all HND routes; quite empty too).

PS: Also, I do not see a basis for UA or DL to argue about a slot shuffle until they are fully utilizing all the slots allocated to them.

MLIAA wrote:

They should at least be able to try NRT/HND or SYD from PHX. It’s the 11th largest metro in the country and should at least have SOME service to Asia. Geographically it’s not great for Asia connections, but then again neither is Dallas.

Even with its PHX hub, its probably saying something that in 2019 AA applied to run Tokyo-Las Vegas, and not Phoenix.

onwFan wrote:

I know the process would involve the DOT. But nothing that says that AA would not win an award, especially citing the opportunities for feed at both HND and SEA. After all, there will certainly be a battle for HND slots soon. I cannot imagine DL flying MSP or PDX to HND for probably years (they are down to 3-4x weekly on all HND routes; quite empty too).

SEA already has an awarded HND flight by a U.S. carrier - by DL.

I don't see DOT much enthused to allow the move when others will argue that larger city (for example UA @ IAH) deserve their own HND flight. Considering the smaller size of the SEA market, I would find it unusual to tie up two frequencies.

And all this is your pressuming that AA/JL want to walk away from the frequency they have to LAX, the largest US-Japan U.S mainland market. Have not seen a peep about that.
Like LAX-LHR where AA/BA keep high volume of frequency, I see AA/JL would do the same at LAX.

And as previously mentioned, if truly desired, JL could make the switch themselves much easier by switching around their bucket of HND-US authories that are not destinion specific without the regulatory process that U.S carrier move would entail.

onwFan wrote:

PS: Also, I do not see a basis for UA or DL to argue about a slot shuffle until they are fully utilizing all the slots allocated to them.

Per the DOT, they don't need to utilize the awarded frequencies. DOT has issued blanket waivers due to ongoing COVID limitations for all carriers, including AA which has suspended LAX-HND entirely at this time.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Lots more international route cuts just announced:

LAX-AKL moving to DFW
DFW to TLV will not launch
SEA to BLR will not launch until Summer 2023, citing the war in Ukraine and the issues around airspace.
DFW to LIM axed
JFK to MDE and CLO both axed, leaving just JFK-BOG on NYC to Colombia nonstops.

Plus all China flying suspended until October 2023 except for 2 x weekly DFW-PVG via ICN.

SEA-PVG and DFW-PEK pushed to October 2023.

On the other hand, MIA-MVD will resume 3 x weekly later this year.

None of these really are surprsing.

I’m surprised DFW-LIM lasted that long. It was the single most Asia dependent Latin America rote from DFW with 35% of connections onwards to Asia.

LAXintl wrote:

onwFan wrote:

PS: Also, I do not see a basis for UA or DL to argue about a slot shuffle until they are fully utilizing all the slots allocated to them.

Per the DOT, they don't need to utilize the awarded frequencies. DOT has issued blanket waivers due to ongoing COVID limitations for all carriers, including AA which has suspended LAX-HND entirely at this time.

I understand that currently there is a waiver. But how is that a basis to argue for future authorities, if they are not even using half of their allotments. Even if they are theoretically able to argue; I can’t imagine that argument having any credibility in front of the DOT.

In the future, the rumored AA787-9 with 51 Business Class seats and more Y+ could be used on Indian routes, if and when Boeing gets blessed by the FAA to resume deliveries.

For all the negative LAX prognostications, Haneda and Sydney should return to the schedule when Asia returns to normal. AA just can't give everything outside of DFW to JAL for the Tokyo market. It would also help AA if they flew to Tokyo from Chicago with a properly configured airplane.

I would also love to see ORD to GRU, which UA flies, when AA is supposed to be the USA airline king to Latin America. AA does well to South America from MIA, DFW & JFK but the record from ORD is sad, a flight to EZE which lasted about 6 months a long time ago. Charlotte also could do Brazil, Usair did fly to Brazil before the merger.

Well if you want to play that game with the DOT, one could certainly argue United is far more committed to using its authorities than AA which is letting its two LAX-HND slots sit idle. UA likely happily take a frequency to use at IAH today.

But ultimately today’s suspension should have no bearing on the future.

Sorry, but I just dont see AA moving a frequency to SEA, let alone DOT blessing such move when other carriers can make strong arguments of using the slot from other markets.

As a long time PHX resident I would love to see an Asian flight out of PHX, However i don't see it happening. I remember the HP 747 disaster to Nagoya. I just don't think there is a large market from PHX to NRT or HND. I did a lot of Asia travel in the past and the PHX LAX TYO was not that inconvenient. It seems that Europe is the market out of PHX as Condor just returned to PHX FRA.

jfk777 wrote:

For all the negative LAX prognostications, Haneda and Sydney should return to the schedule when Asia returns to normal. AA just can't give everything outside of DFW to JAL for the Tokyo market. It would also help AA if they flew to Tokyo from Chicago with a properly configured airplane.

I would also love to see ORD to GRU, which UA flies, when AA is supposed to be the USA airline king to Latin America. AA does well to South America from MIA, DFW & JFK but the record from ORD is sad, a flight to EZE which lasted about 6 months a long time ago. Charlotte also could do Brazil, Usair did fly to Brazil before the merger.

How well does AA do from DFW to South America though? They axed LIM, UIO, GIG, and GYE and reduced EZE and SCL. I know GRU is a slam dunk, but there does seem to be limits.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

With all the goings on in the world why does AA want to fly to India, fueling a 77W for 16 hour flights cost lots of dough. Couldn't the planes be better used for an extra frequency to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires ? Perhaps a daily trip to a European destination. India well flown by Emirates, Qatar, British Airways, and Lufthansa, this part of the world is not a strength for AA.

If AA has such desires to fly to an exotic destination with two 77W I can think of one far away from Russian airspace and only 14 hours from JFK, that being Johannesburg, South Africa.

India can be lucrative, but it is tricky. Much of the traffic from the US to India is owned by the ME3, or at least EK and QR. The UA nonstops do well because they carry a lot of tech industry workers to and from, with POS in both directions. The EWR routes also do well because of the large Indian community in Northern New Jersey, and no one really wants to fly on Air India if they don't have to.

AA has stated JFK-DEL does very well, in spite of the stopovers in BGR on the DEL-JFK leg, which are less frequent now and more of an issue in winter, when headwinds are much stronger. Assuming the NEA stays in place and grows, AA will probably add JFK-BOM before it ever launches a BLR service, from anywhere, including SEA. That said, AA has a long history of not letting intercontinental routes mature and generally suspends them quickly if they don't perform, as they should I guess, so time will tell if JFK-India is the big success for AA that it has made it out to be. Part of me things AA is launching JFK-DOH to further tap into the South Asia market and with a big OW partner, as it does with BA and IB with the LHR and MAD hubs.

The JFK-DEL route is going 77E this winter because the 77Ws are going in for cycled maintenance. They have been heavily used during the pandemic for many domestic turns and their utilization increases and timing are putting them in the shop. GRU has actually been down gauged from JFK from 77W to 77E. US-Brazil is performing better, but is a far cry from what it once was. JFK-EZE on the 77E is enough for the market. The route is profitable but apart from a few weeks around the holiday season, where it could use a 77W, the 77E is more than enough and there is no need for AA to put another frequency there.

What is POS?

RMTAviation wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

jfk777 wrote:

With all the goings on in the world why does AA want to fly to India, fueling a 77W for 16 hour flights cost lots of dough. Couldn't the planes be better used for an extra frequency to Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires ? Perhaps a daily trip to a European destination. India well flown by Emirates, Qatar, British Airways, and Lufthansa, this part of the world is not a strength for AA.

If AA has such desires to fly to an exotic destination with two 77W I can think of one far away from Russian airspace and only 14 hours from JFK, that being Johannesburg, South Africa.

India can be lucrative, but it is tricky. Much of the traffic from the US to India is owned by the ME3, or at least EK and QR. The UA nonstops do well because they carry a lot of tech industry workers to and from, with POS in both directions. The EWR routes also do well because of the large Indian community in Northern New Jersey, and no one really wants to fly on Air India if they don't have to.

AA has stated JFK-DEL does very well, in spite of the stopovers in BGR on the DEL-JFK leg, which are less frequent now and more of an issue in winter, when headwinds are much stronger. Assuming the NEA stays in place and grows, AA will probably add JFK-BOM before it ever launches a BLR service, from anywhere, including SEA. That said, AA has a long history of not letting intercontinental routes mature and generally suspends them quickly if they don't perform, as they should I guess, so time will tell if JFK-India is the big success for AA that it has made it out to be. Part of me things AA is launching JFK-DOH to further tap into the South Asia market and with a big OW partner, as it does with BA and IB with the LHR and MAD hubs.

The JFK-DEL route is going 77E this winter because the 77Ws are going in for cycled maintenance. They have been heavily used during the pandemic for many domestic turns and their utilization increases and timing are putting them in the shop. GRU has actually been down gauged from JFK from 77W to 77E. US-Brazil is performing better, but is a far cry from what it once was. JFK-EZE on the 77E is enough for the market. The route is profitable but apart from a few weeks around the holiday season, where it could use a 77W, the 77E is more than enough and there is no need for AA to put another frequency there.

What is POS?

Point of sale

About the UAL flights, why do UAL time those flights to land at close to midnight? Wouldn't it make sense for those flights to land earlier in the day, so that PAX can catch connections with codeshare partners Air India & Vistara?

Any new UAL routes to India? What about SFO/ORD-BOM or EWR-BLR?

Someone mentioned this last year sometime. There seems to be something wrong with AA and their International efforts outside of Latin America and London. They can't make ORD to anywhere work, except for a handful of routes, seasonally. JFK is fledgling, and should the NEA run into problems, I don't see a future for their long haul ops there. They've crashed and burned in LAX for the most part. So they throw everything in DFW to see if it sticks. SEA doesn't look promising. CLT has minimal service, it seems. PHL is ok, I guess. There doesn't seem to be an obvious fix to this side of the operation, except relying on partners to do the heavy lifting for them.

RMTAviation wrote:

What is POS?

HunterATL wrote:

Point of sale

To add, how much of that local point of sale (local/national/regional market) they can capitalize upon. State-side, tie of credit cards and earning of frequent flier miles/points - meant that many who could (and particularly regarding corporate travel) use those credit cards to earn and also, to purchase travel. It demonstrates (and the level of naturality of that ease of decision making) well where and how a consumer tied to that program will shop (brand loyalty et al). On the U.S. side, having AS (and B6 via the NEA) adds to that value (customer bases, and/or access to POS from those carrier's domains/niches) to AA's services in this case. Past, the matter of the purchase (and that may come from other retailers, points-of-sale, et al) consider how AA can rely upon AAdavantage members to market these routes to, and rely upon higher chances of opportunities within this community. Expanding that to TrueBlue members, as well as Mileage Plan members (as well as OneWorld members) provide them with high value data about who, when and how much for - passengers will travel on these routes. On the Indian side, the partners are tied in the same system - however there are no OneWolrd partners, and/or the ability to command anything more (at this time, barring foreign investment) than a code-share partnership. It's not terrible, and can be better. Hopefully there is significant growth and extended partnership opportunities (and being taken), in future.

717atOGG wrote:

travaz wrote:

As a long time PHX resident I would love to see an Asian flight out of PHX, However i don't see it happening. I remember the HP 747 disaster to Nagoya. I just don't think there is a large market from PHX to NRT or HND. I did a lot of Asia travel in the past and the PHX LAX TYO was not that inconvenient. It seems that Europe is the market out of PHX as Condor just returned to PHX FRA.

Given the anemic demand for most of eastern Asia right now, if anything I think PHX-CDG or MAD is more reasonable, though even that's a stretch. But who knows - maybe PHX-MAD could work down the line as an OW hub-to-hub route not unlike SLC-CDG/AMS on DL.

er

A few years ago, the idea of AA adding anything long haul to Europe or Asia out of Phoenix was extraordinarily unlikely. I think some of that has changed, with population shifts owing to the pandemic but I still think PHX-CDG or PHX-MAD on AA isn't in the cards. Aside from the shortage of wide body jets AA has, a problem likely more acute if the 787 deliveries get pushed well into 2023 and with the 77Ws going into heavy maintenance. These are both long, thin-ish routes, that overfly DFW but MAD, given it is a OW hub, would be the more likely one. That said, AA/BA have PHX-LHR and that itself is likely enough for connections for now.

You'll likely never see AA launch anything to Germany out of PHX. AA can't make Germany work. Never has been able to, apart from DFW.

1) DFW-AKL loaded with the following schedule
AA35 departs Dallas at 10:45 PM and arrives at Auckland at 7:45 AM (will arrive at 8:45 AM when the time change kicks in).
AA34 departs Auckland at 12:40 PM (will depart at 1:40 PM after the time change) and arrive at Dallas at 8:30 AM.
2) JFK-DEL will remain a 77W this winter.
3) LAX-SYD will go 77W effective 12/15/2022.
AA will have more slightly Oceania capacity than before COVID during the peak winter months this year.
https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220529-aanw22inc

They should at least be able to try NRT/HND or SYD from PHX. It’s the 11th largest metro in the country and should at least have SOME service to Asia. Geographically it’s not great for Asia connections, but then again neither is Dallas.

PHX is lacking something that airlines are looking for. Metro-size doesn't matter, evidently. Both Austin and San Diego have better international service than PHX. And both of them are closer to established international hubs than PHX is to LAX. Also, since day 1 of the American/US Airways merger management has stated PHX is their Western CONNECTION hub.

AUS is booming right now...and it's higher wealth O&D at that. SAN has a leisure and high wealth O&D that PHX does not match.

DFW-AKL makes total sense with the QF JV downunder. This link the DFW mega-hub to SYD+MEL (flown by QF) and AKL (flown by AA). Why fly routes with competition when you can own the DFW-SYD/MEL/AKL market. Also QF due to its oneworld status with multinationals in Asia (e.g. Telstra), oneworld has the AU-Asia/North America market locked in.

austwin wrote:

They should at least be able to try NRT/HND or SYD from PHX. It’s the 11th largest metro in the country and should at least have SOME service to Asia. Geographically it’s not great for Asia connections, but then again neither is Dallas.

PHX is lacking something that airlines are looking for. Metro-size doesn't matter, evidently. Both Austin and San Diego have better international service than PHX. And both of them are closer to established international hubs than PHX is to LAX. Also, since day 1 of the American/US Airways merger management has stated PHX is their Western CONNECTION hub.

What PHX is lacking is demand. Cooections can just as easily flow through other hubs with more feed and/or more local demand.

Aliqiout wrote:

austwin wrote:

They should at least be able to try NRT/HND or SYD from PHX. It’s the 11th largest metro in the country and should at least have SOME service to Asia. Geographically it’s not great for Asia connections, but then again neither is Dallas.

PHX is lacking something that airlines are looking for. Metro-size doesn't matter, evidently. Both Austin and San Diego have better international service than PHX. And both of them are closer to established international hubs than PHX is to LAX. Also, since day 1 of the American/US Airways merger management has stated PHX is their Western CONNECTION hub.

What PHX is lacking is demand. Cooections can just as easily flow through other hubs with more feed and/or more local demand.

What PHX lacks is long haul international demand. It’s got tons of demand from the US and Canada.