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usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 4:19 am

soflaflyer wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Also, AA still flies a seasonal JFKGIG route so there are three SA routes (4 if you include GEO but I consider that part of the Caribbean)



Why on earth would you consider GEO as part of the Caribbean?? It's clearly in South America.


Guyana is in South America geographically but economically, culturally and politically it is part of the Caribbean.
It was a British colony and speaks English and is culturally much more similar to Trinidad or Jamaica than Brazil or Venezuela.
It is a member of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) and the Caribbean Court of Justice serves as its highest court.
Its primary economic ally is Trinidad.
It being is South America is basically a technicality kind of like how Belize is part of Central America but is really part of the Caribbean.
 
Brickell305
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:07 am

usflyer msp wrote:
soflaflyer wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Also, AA still flies a seasonal JFKGIG route so there are three SA routes (4 if you include GEO but I consider that part of the Caribbean)



Why on earth would you consider GEO as part of the Caribbean?? It's clearly in South America.


Guyana is in South America geographically but economically, culturally and politically it is part of the Caribbean.
It was a British colony and speaks English and is culturally much more similar to Trinidad or Jamaica than Brazil or Venezuela.
It is a member of the Caribbean Community (CARICOM) and the Caribbean Court of Justice serves as its highest court.
Its primary economic ally is Trinidad.
It being is South America is basically a technicality kind of like how Belize is part of Central America but is really part of the Caribbean.

All accurate. Guyana is culturally and socially a part of the English speaking Caribbean despite geographically being in SA. One could make similar arguments for Suriname and the Dutch speaking Caribbean and French Guiana and the French Antilles. Guyana’s ties to the English speaking Caribbean are more solid though.
 
aviator2000
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 11:38 am

Has DFW-BCN route been announced yet or are we still waiting?
 
rjbesikof
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:32 pm

This is a pretty big weekend for AA because the following routes will resume/launch:
1) MIA-CDG
2) LAX-HND (SYD resumed October 26)
3) DFW-AKL/SCL
4) SEA-LHR
5) JFK-GIG
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Oct 28, 2022 8:23 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
This is a pretty big weekend for AA because the following routes will resume/launch:
1) MIA-CDG
2) LAX-HND (SYD resumed October 26)
3) DFW-AKL/SCL
4) SEA-LHR
5) JFK-GIG


And MIA-MVD also resumes on 30OCT, 3x w, 788.
 
AdEd
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:00 am

rjbesikof wrote:
This is a pretty big weekend for AA because the following routes will resume/launch:
1) MIA-CDG
2) LAX-HND (SYD resumed October 26)
3) DFW-AKL/SCL
4) SEA-LHR
5) JFK-GIG


…yes, with 388 weekly TATL departures dropping to 281, what with seasonal flights ending and LHR cuts from ORD, DFW and PHL…

…and also with JFK-BOG/CLO/MDE ending next week. A pretty big weekend indeed.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:05 am

JFK-MEX also about to commence
 
jfk777
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 2:36 pm

JFK to BOG/CLO and Medellin were "pandemic" routes. AA is better flying these cities from their Latin hub in Miami. Another issue was AA didn't have enough airplanes with the upgraded engines required for nearly 6 hour flights from high altitude airports in Colombia. MIA is half the flying time to JFK and can be flown by AA's standard Latin American fleet.
 
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N292UX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:28 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Seriously, what is taking so long to release the 2023 international schedule?

They know UA and DL’s schedule, all the 787-8 owed by Boeing will have been delivered by February, time to announce some new destinations and stop being lame.

I really don't know how much/if AA is going to add in 2023, at least on the TATL side. Maybe a few reinstatements of routes like PHL-PRG/BUD or something. But AA also said they were going to generally try and avoid those seasonal European leisure markets so even those are a bit of a stretch. I think I said this earlier either in this thread or a different AA thread but it wouldn't shock me if AA's only TATL adds/changes in 2023 would be making CLT-MAD year-round. I suppose a resumption of PHL-MAN is possible but that may wait until the XLR comes online.

Outside of TATL, I could see a few adds to Latin America/the Caribbean, mostly from MIA. MIA-MGA was already announced as resuming and there's a few new E-175 routes out of MIA to places like OCJ and DOM. I know Tortola (EIS) has been eying MIA flights for a while so AA adding a 1-2x weekly E-175 service on MIA-EIS is possible. I could also see some adds like MIA-BQN and MIA-LRM.
 
avi8
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 3:34 pm

So ORD loses all of Europe except 2 daily LHR right?
 
AdEd
Posts: 219
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:16 pm

avi8 wrote:
So ORD loses all of Europe except 2 daily LHR right?


Only daily LHR and daily CDG remains. CDG will be temporarily suspended between Jan 10 and Mar 24.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1815
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:33 pm

N292UX wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Seriously, what is taking so long to release the 2023 international schedule?

They know UA and DL’s schedule, all the 787-8 owed by Boeing will have been delivered by February, time to announce some new destinations and stop being lame.

I really don't know how much/if AA is going to add in 2023, at least on the TATL side. Maybe a few reinstatements of routes like PHL-PRG/BUD or something. But AA also said they were going to generally try and avoid those seasonal European leisure markets so even those are a bit of a stretch. I think I said this earlier either in this thread or a different AA thread but it wouldn't shock me if AA's only TATL adds/changes in 2023 would be making CLT-MAD year-round. I suppose a resumption of PHL-MAN is possible but that may wait until the XLR comes online.

Outside of TATL, I could see a few adds to Latin America/the Caribbean, mostly from MIA. MIA-MGA was already announced as resuming and there's a few new E-175 routes out of MIA to places like OCJ and DOM. I know Tortola (EIS) has been eying MIA flights for a while so AA adding a 1-2x weekly E-175 service on MIA-EIS is possible. I could also see some adds like MIA-BQN and MIA-LRM.

I think the issue with MIA-EIS is runway length. I stand to be corrected though. However, if AA were to start MIA-EIS, it would definitely be more than 1-2x weekly. EIS is an extremely popular tourist destination and attracts many more people a year than AXA, which AA serves daily from MIA now.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 5:36 pm

jfk777 wrote:
JFK to BOG/CLO and Medellin were "pandemic" routes. AA is better flying these cities from their Latin hub in Miami. Another issue was AA didn't have enough airplanes with the upgraded engines required for nearly 6 hour flights from high altitude airports in Colombia. MIA is half the flying time to JFK and can be flown by AA's standard Latin American fleet.


AA also flies DFW-BOG, which I believe does well. I’m hoping that AA will also start DFW-MDE.
 
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N292UX
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:28 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
N292UX wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Seriously, what is taking so long to release the 2023 international schedule?

They know UA and DL’s schedule, all the 787-8 owed by Boeing will have been delivered by February, time to announce some new destinations and stop being lame.

I really don't know how much/if AA is going to add in 2023, at least on the TATL side. Maybe a few reinstatements of routes like PHL-PRG/BUD or something. But AA also said they were going to generally try and avoid those seasonal European leisure markets so even those are a bit of a stretch. I think I said this earlier either in this thread or a different AA thread but it wouldn't shock me if AA's only TATL adds/changes in 2023 would be making CLT-MAD year-round. I suppose a resumption of PHL-MAN is possible but that may wait until the XLR comes online.

Outside of TATL, I could see a few adds to Latin America/the Caribbean, mostly from MIA. MIA-MGA was already announced as resuming and there's a few new E-175 routes out of MIA to places like OCJ and DOM. I know Tortola (EIS) has been eying MIA flights for a while so AA adding a 1-2x weekly E-175 service on MIA-EIS is possible. I could also see some adds like MIA-BQN and MIA-LRM.

I think the issue with MIA-EIS is runway length. I stand to be corrected though. However, if AA were to start MIA-EIS, it would definitely be more than 1-2x weekly. EIS is an extremely popular tourist destination and attracts many more people a year than AXA, which AA serves daily from MIA now.

That wouldn't shock me. The runway at EIS is only 100ft shorter than the runway at OCJ where AA starts service in a few days. That being said, it's a further distance from MIA and would likely require a bit more fuel which would change the whole dynamic there. Would probably need to have a pax cap at the bare minimum.

IIRC, someone was going to launch EIS-MIA a few years ago with the Avro RJ100 but that never happened. I believe it had something to do with financial issues rather than runway length/performance issues.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:52 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
JFK to BOG/CLO and Medellin were "pandemic" routes. AA is better flying these cities from their Latin hub in Miami. Another issue was AA didn't have enough airplanes with the upgraded engines required for nearly 6 hour flights from high altitude airports in Colombia. MIA is half the flying time to JFK and can be flown by AA's standard Latin American fleet.


AA also flies DFW-BOG, which I believe does well. I’m hoping that AA will also start DFW-MDE.


That’s going to be tough. There isn’t much of a market west of the Mississippi for secondary Colombia outside LA and Houston. If they can feed those markets through MIA, I’m not sure it would make sense. AA seems to struggle with secondary Latin America out of DFW.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:57 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
AA seems to struggle with secondary Latin America out of DFW.

Definitely ironic considering AAs vast LATAM network out of MIA and all the subsequent knowledge it comes with, plus the critical mass that is DFW.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 6:58 pm

avi8 wrote:
So ORD loses all of Europe except 2 daily LHR right?


...but this is normal, even pre-COVID ORD only had LHR year-round.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:00 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
AA seems to struggle with secondary Latin America out of DFW.

Definitely ironic considering AAs vast LATAM network out of MIA and all the subsequent knowledge it comes with, plus the critical mass that is DFW.


There is just not much of a market for secondary Latam routes outside of Miami.
In many of them, Miami O&D is seriously like 70-80% of the market.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 7225
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:10 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
AA seems to struggle with secondary Latin America out of DFW.

Definitely ironic considering AAs vast LATAM network out of MIA and all the subsequent knowledge it comes with, plus the critical mass that is DFW.


There is just not much of a market for secondary Latam routes outside of Miami.
In many of them, Miami O&D is seriously like 70-80% of the market.


NYC is as big as MIA to many secondary Latin American places. It just depends on the market. Thing is that almost all the demand to South America and the Hispanic Caribbean is east of the Mississippi. The only exceptions are LA, Houston, and to a lesser degree SF but those markets are much smaller than NYC, Miami, and Orlando to South America. That puts DFW at a disadvantage.

When you've got MIA in your back pocket, its becomes harder to justify certain flights to Latin America from DFW.
 
dcajet
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 1:50 am

Two AA upgauges on flights to Argentina effective tonight:

* AA907 MIA-EZE upgauges to 77W, was 77E
* AA997 DFW-EZE upgauges to 77E, was 788

Remaining flights to EZE are on 77E (JFK and 2nd and 3rd dailies from MIA, the latter eff. DEC2022)
 
AC4500
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 2:44 am

Domestic flight schedule appears to be updated up to 2/19/23.
 
AdEd
Posts: 219
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:09 am

usflyer msp wrote:
avi8 wrote:
So ORD loses all of Europe except 2 daily LHR right?


...but this is normal, even pre-COVID ORD only had LHR year-round.


...yes, but shortly before COVID AA did away with all their Asia flying from ORD, with ORD-NRT being the last to go. I'm not sure if ORD-Europe was downsized in similar fashion, but it speaks to the overall international strength (or the lack thereof) of AA's only hub in the Midwest.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:06 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
AA will be running a stronger leaning THU/FRI/SUN schedule for January. AA's ORD operation is looking very interesting, for example, in January:

A lot of these aren't new frequency drops, but a lot are -

Monday (Jan 2020 Monday frequency)
ORD-DFW 8x (13x)
ORD-CLT 6x (9x)
ORD-MIA 6x (9x)
ORD-PHX 6x (9x)
ORD-CMH 3x (8x)
ORD-IND 3x (7x)
ORD-CLE 3x (6x)
ORD-MCI 3x (6x)
ORD-STL 3x (6x)
ORD-MCO 3x (5x)
ORD-BWI 2x (4x)
ORD-CVG 2x (7x)
ORD-DSM 2x (6x)
ORD-DTW 2x (6x)
ORD-MSP 2x (6x)
ORD-GRB 2x (5x)
ORD-OMA 2x (5x)
ORD-PIT 2x (5x)
ORD-XNA 2x (5x)
ORD-SFO 2x (4x)
ORD-CMI 1x (5x)
ORD-FLL 1x (4x)
ORD-MDT 1x (4x)
ORD-SYR 1x (4x)
ORD-AZO 1x (3x)
ORD-ALB 1x (3x)
ORD-ATW 1x (3x)
ORD-BMI 1x (3x)
ORD-BUF 1x (3x)
ORD-CWA 1x (3x)
ORD-FNT 1x (3x)
ORD-MLI 1x (3x)
ORD-PBI 1x (3x)
ORD-PIA 1x (3x)
ORD-TUL 1x (3x)
ORD-BHM 1x (2x)
ORD-GSP 1x (2x)
ORD-HSV 1x (2x)
ORD-JAX 1x (2x)
ORD-MSY 1x (2x)
ORD-SEA 1x (2x)

Cut for Jan
ORD-ABE (1x)
ORD-AVP (2x)
ORD-EYW Sat only (1x)
ORD-SMF (1x)

Cut for longer
ORD-MHT (1x)
ORD-PDX (1x)
ORD-SJC (1x)


Nice bumps into February.

ORD-TUL up to 3x
ORD-DSM gains mainline
most routes gain back a frequency

ORD-ABE/AVP/SMF back for Feb
 
AC4500
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:27 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA will be running a stronger leaning THU/FRI/SUN schedule for January. AA's ORD operation is looking very interesting, for example, in January:

A lot of these aren't new frequency drops, but a lot are -

Monday (Jan 2020 Monday frequency)
ORD-DFW 8x (13x)
ORD-CLT 6x (9x)
ORD-MIA 6x (9x)
ORD-PHX 6x (9x)
ORD-CMH 3x (8x)
ORD-IND 3x (7x)
ORD-CLE 3x (6x)
ORD-MCI 3x (6x)
ORD-STL 3x (6x)
ORD-MCO 3x (5x)
ORD-BWI 2x (4x)
ORD-CVG 2x (7x)
ORD-DSM 2x (6x)
ORD-DTW 2x (6x)
ORD-MSP 2x (6x)
ORD-GRB 2x (5x)
ORD-OMA 2x (5x)
ORD-PIT 2x (5x)
ORD-XNA 2x (5x)
ORD-SFO 2x (4x)
ORD-CMI 1x (5x)
ORD-FLL 1x (4x)
ORD-MDT 1x (4x)
ORD-SYR 1x (4x)
ORD-AZO 1x (3x)
ORD-ALB 1x (3x)
ORD-ATW 1x (3x)
ORD-BMI 1x (3x)
ORD-BUF 1x (3x)
ORD-CWA 1x (3x)
ORD-FNT 1x (3x)
ORD-MLI 1x (3x)
ORD-PBI 1x (3x)
ORD-PIA 1x (3x)
ORD-TUL 1x (3x)
ORD-BHM 1x (2x)
ORD-GSP 1x (2x)
ORD-HSV 1x (2x)
ORD-JAX 1x (2x)
ORD-MSY 1x (2x)
ORD-SEA 1x (2x)

Cut for Jan
ORD-ABE (1x)
ORD-AVP (2x)
ORD-EYW Sat only (1x)
ORD-SMF (1x)

Cut for longer
ORD-MHT (1x)
ORD-PDX (1x)
ORD-SJC (1x)


Nice bumps into February.

ORD-TUL up to 3x
ORD-DSM gains mainline
most routes gain back a frequency

ORD-ABE/AVP/SMF back for Feb

Seems like PHX is pretty strong as well, although that's probably typical for February. Speaking of SMF, DFW-SMF is at 5x daily, which is a big boost as well.
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:10 pm

In the February schedule extension it looks like FSD picks up mainline to DFW.
 
Detroit313
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:39 pm

Nice ORD growth in January. Also, the Air Wisconsin deal should be kicking in around that time so that should help too.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:27 pm

AUS-VPS will be daily next summer.

AUS-ECP added as well.
 
jfk777
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:38 am

TWA772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
AA seems to struggle with secondary Latin America out of DFW.

Definitely ironic considering AAs vast LATAM network out of MIA and all the subsequent knowledge it comes with, plus the critical mass that is DFW.


There are definitely some Latin markets working well from DFW and even ORD(not for AA, for UA). In the 1990's Latin America to USA moved beyond the MIA/JFK duopoly, Delta established Atlanta as a gateway to the region and Continental did the same out of Houston and Newark. AA expanded out of DFW to the larger market in Brazil and Argentina along with their MIA hub. AA flown to Mexico for decades from DFW, even before buy Eastern's Latin System.

United, after buying Pan Am's Latin system and getting beat up by AA, gave up in MIA but moved the flying to their hubs. Sao Paulo is flown from Chicago, Newark, Houston, and Washington Dulles with 777 & 787. Delta even flies JFK to GRU with AA on the route too. Flying to South America does not require the dreaded Miami connection if you are flying to the larger markets.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:20 am

jfk777 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
AA seems to struggle with secondary Latin America out of DFW.

Definitely ironic considering AAs vast LATAM network out of MIA and all the subsequent knowledge it comes with, plus the critical mass that is DFW.


There are definitely some Latin markets working well from DFW and even ORD(not for AA, for UA). In the 1990's Latin America to USA moved beyond the MIA/JFK duopoly, Delta established Atlanta as a gateway to the region and Continental did the same out of Houston and Newark. AA expanded out of DFW to the larger market in Brazil and Argentina along with their MIA hub. AA flown to Mexico for decades from DFW, even before buy Eastern's Latin System.

United, after buying Pan Am's Latin system and getting beat up by AA, gave up in MIA but moved the flying to their hubs. Sao Paulo is flown from Chicago, Newark, Houston, and Washington Dulles with 777 & 787. Delta even flies JFK to GRU with AA on the route too. Flying to South America does not require the dreaded Miami connection if you are flying to the larger markets.


I think we have to qualify for what I mean by secondary Latin America. Places like GRU and EZE aren't secondary and DFW itself is a rich source for O&D to secondary places in Mexico so I am also not referring to it.

I'm thinking more along the lines of GIG, LIM, UIO, GYE, SDQ, PTY, SAP, etc. Of course GIG is a much bigger market than SAP or SDQ, so Im not implying all secondary Latin Markets are the same. AA has dropped GIG, LIM, PTY, MGA, TGU, SAP, and SDQ from DFW. There are several reasons I believe this is:

1) Per data.census.gov, DFW's rather large Hispanic population is 75% Mexican and and another 11% Salvadoran. That isn't a huge pool to draw from for other Hispanic groups when a large part of Latin American travel is VFR.
2) Demand for travel to the Hispanic Caribbean and South America is VERY heavily skewed towards the East Coast with Miami, NYC, and Orlando taking the lions share. The only markets west of the Mississippi that have a sizable O&D to those regions are LA, Houston, and San Francisco. While DFW could certainly capture from those markets, why bother when those places are well served MIA and there really aren't many DFW-specific spokes that need them?
3) One of DFW's biggest selling points was it was the premier connecting point between South America and Asia. With Asia traffic in the gutter, it takes some wind out of those sails.
 
dcajet
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Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:58 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
3) One of DFW's biggest selling points was it was the premier connecting point between South America and Asia. With Asia traffic in the gutter, it takes some wind out of those sails.


The above was one of the main reasons behind the cancellation of the DFW-LIM flight. Connections to/fr Asia drove a big part of the traffic on the route and with them gone, the business case for the flight wasn't there. Interestingly, Peruvians form the largest South American émigré community in the LA Basin; LATAM offers up to 10 nonstop weekly 763ER flights between LAX and Lima during peak season, carrying most of the traffic out of the LAX market, which would otherwise have to be routed via DFW, IAH, ATL or MIA.
 
BoeingGuy
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:58 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Definitely ironic considering AAs vast LATAM network out of MIA and all the subsequent knowledge it comes with, plus the critical mass that is DFW.


There are definitely some Latin markets working well from DFW and even ORD(not for AA, for UA). In the 1990's Latin America to USA moved beyond the MIA/JFK duopoly, Delta established Atlanta as a gateway to the region and Continental did the same out of Houston and Newark. AA expanded out of DFW to the larger market in Brazil and Argentina along with their MIA hub. AA flown to Mexico for decades from DFW, even before buy Eastern's Latin System.

United, after buying Pan Am's Latin system and getting beat up by AA, gave up in MIA but moved the flying to their hubs. Sao Paulo is flown from Chicago, Newark, Houston, and Washington Dulles with 777 & 787. Delta even flies JFK to GRU with AA on the route too. Flying to South America does not require the dreaded Miami connection if you are flying to the larger markets.


I think we have to qualify for what I mean by secondary Latin America. Places like GRU and EZE aren't secondary and DFW itself is a rich source for O&D to secondary places in Mexico so I am also not referring to it.

I'm thinking more along the lines of GIG, LIM, UIO, GYE, SDQ, PTY, SAP, etc. Of course GIG is a much bigger market than SAP or SDQ, so Im not implying all secondary Latin Markets are the same. AA has dropped GIG, LIM, PTY, MGA, TGU, SAP, and SDQ from DFW. There are several reasons I believe this is:

1) Per data.census.gov, DFW's rather large Hispanic population is 75% Mexican and and another 11% Salvadoran. That isn't a huge pool to draw from for other Hispanic groups when a large part of Latin American travel is VFR.
2) Demand for travel to the Hispanic Caribbean and South America is VERY heavily skewed towards the East Coast with Miami, NYC, and Orlando taking the lions share. The only markets west of the Mississippi that have a sizable O&D to those regions are LA, Houston, and San Francisco. While DFW could certainly capture from those markets, why bother when those places are well served MIA and there really aren't many DFW-specific spokes that need them?
3) One of DFW's biggest selling points was it was the premier connecting point between South America and Asia. With Asia traffic in the gutter, it takes some wind out of those sails.


AA has also tried and dropped UIO twice from DFW. I took the flight once and it was full. They announced DFW-GYE also just before the pandemic but I don’t know if it ever actually started.

I far prefer DFW as a connecting point over MIA, so I wish DFW would support more Latin America. BOG and GUA seem to do well.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 7225
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:32 am

dcajet wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
3) One of DFW's biggest selling points was it was the premier connecting point between South America and Asia. With Asia traffic in the gutter, it takes some wind out of those sails.


The above was one of the main reasons behind the cancellation of the DFW-LIM flight. Connections to/fr Asia drove a big part of the traffic on the route and with them gone, the business case for the flight wasn't there. Interestingly, Peruvians form the largest South American émigré community in the LA Basin; LATAM offers up to 10 nonstop weekly 763ER flights between LAX and Lima during peak season, carrying most of the traffic out of the LAX market, which would otherwise have to be routed via DFW, IAH, ATL or MIA.


When we look at the demographics of those born in Latin America living in the US a very clear pattern emerges: South Americans and people from the Caribbean are mainly East of the Mississippi, people from Mexico are mainly west of the Mississippi, people from Central America are split between both. Of course there are exceptions like Chicago for Mexicans and Houston/LA for South Americans.

Below are the foreign born population by Metro Area as of 2021...

From South America
New York City: 894,629
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 583,080
Washington DC: 141,151
Los Angeles: 133,720
Houston: 127,206
Boston: 110,873
Orlando: 89,222
Atlanta: 72,369
Chicago: 71,961
Tampa: 67,523
Dallas/Fort Worth: 45,639
Philadelphia: 44,636
Bridgeport/Stamford: 37,828
San Francisco: 35,651
Charlotte: 28,121
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 24,090
Las Vegas: 22,558
Seattle/Tacoma: 22,139
Denver: 19,767
Phoenix: 18,552
Baltimore: 14,843
San Jose: 14,671
Austin: 11,559

From Central America minus Mexico
Los Angeles: 553,832
New York City: 379,857
Washington DC: 278,929
Houston: 264,941
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 261,903
Dallas/Fort Worth: 125,053
San Francisco: 110,131
Boston: 79,805
Atlanta: 71,954
Chicago: 47,592
Las Vegas: 44,062
Charlotte: 43,429
Baltimore: 33,320
Phoenix: 28,676
Philadelphia: 27,662
Bridgeport/Stamford: 24,689
Orlando: 20,442
Tampa: 20,225
Denver: 19,844
Seattle/Tacoma: 19,792
San Jose: 17,123
Sacramento: 16,971
San Diego: 14,991
San Antonio: 14,884
Austin: 14,518

From Mexico
Los Angeles: 1,437,699
Chicago: 577,967
Dallas/Fort Worth: 516,930
Houston: 509,409
San Diego: 295,552
Phoenix: 275,967
New York City: 267,336
Las Vegas: 165,485
San Francisco: 155,273
San Antonio: 155,174
Denver: 126,754
Atlanta: 116,021
San Jose: 105,390
Austin: 98,041
Seattle/Tacoma: 79,797
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 70,302
Sacramento: 68,031
Portland, OR: 60,180
Philadelphia: 46,606
Tampa: 43,063
Washington DC: 37,405
Minneapolis/St. Paul: 34,396
Detroit: 34,271
Charlotte: 28,209
Orlando: 17,490
Bridgeport/Stamford: 12,214
Baltimore: 12,061

From Cuba and the Dominican Republic
Miami/Fort Lauderdale: 819,685
New York City: 713,292
Boston: 102,245
Tampa: 93,188
Philadelphia: 43,719
Houston: 35,334
Orlando: 35,019
Las Vegas: 18,906
Los Angeles: 14,948
Washington DC: 14,777
Dallas/Fort Worth: 13,653
Bridgeport/Stamford: 11,541
Phoenix: 10,696
Atlanta: 10,451
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed May 27, 2020 8:59 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:13 am

LAXintl wrote:
For fun pulled DOT Q2 average fare stats on NYC-FLL and LAS to compare AA vs OALs

EWR-FLL
B6 - $140
NK - $98
UA - $169

JFK-FLL
AA - 141
B6 - 144
DL - 153

LGA-FLL
B6 - 148
DL - 167
NK - 94

EWR-LAS
B6 - 213
NK - 186
UA - 321

JFK-LAS
AA - 276
B6 - 267
DL - 349

Probably also important to note that AA is by far the smallest carrier in the market, with <2% marketshare on NYC-FLL and barely 5% NYC-LAS.


JFK-LAS average is definitely skewed by those high traffic days like Thursday. The majority of the time I can get the AA flight for 99 bucks or so.

EWR-LAS on NK ive seen get to around 40 bucks OW. UA and DL being the most expensive matches up.

Personally, AA is my favorite for NYC-LAS. B6 doesn’t have the lounge… However both have a great JFK terminal product. I much prefer T1 in LAS which gives the edge to AA.
 
User avatar
United787
Posts: 3053
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:11 am

avi8 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA will be running a stronger leaning THU/FRI/SUN schedule for January. AA's ORD operation is looking very interesting, for example, in January:

A lot of these aren't new frequency drops, but a lot are -

Monday (Jan 2020 Monday frequency)
ORD-DFW 8x (13x)
ORD-CLT 6x (9x)
ORD-MIA 6x (9x)
ORD-PHX 6x (9x)
ORD-CMH 3x (8x)
ORD-IND 3x (7x)
ORD-CLE 3x (6x)
ORD-MCI 3x (6x)
ORD-STL 3x (6x)
ORD-MCO 3x (5x)
ORD-BWI 2x (4x)
ORD-CVG 2x (7x)
ORD-DSM 2x (6x)
ORD-DTW 2x (6x)
ORD-MSP 2x (6x)
ORD-GRB 2x (5x)
ORD-OMA 2x (5x)
ORD-PIT 2x (5x)
ORD-XNA 2x (5x)
ORD-SFO 2x (4x)
ORD-CMI 1x (5x)
ORD-FLL 1x (4x)
ORD-MDT 1x (4x)
ORD-SYR 1x (4x)
ORD-AZO 1x (3x)
ORD-ALB 1x (3x)
ORD-ATW 1x (3x)
ORD-BMI 1x (3x)
ORD-BUF 1x (3x)
ORD-CWA 1x (3x)
ORD-FNT 1x (3x)
ORD-MLI 1x (3x)
ORD-PBI 1x (3x)
ORD-PIA 1x (3x)
ORD-TUL 1x (3x)
ORD-BHM 1x (2x)
ORD-GSP 1x (2x)
ORD-HSV 1x (2x)
ORD-JAX 1x (2x)
ORD-MSY 1x (2x)
ORD-SEA 1x (2x)

Cut for Jan
ORD-ABE (1x)
ORD-AVP (2x)
ORD-COU (3x)
ORD-EYW Sat only (1x)
ORD-SMF (1x)

Cut for longer
ORD-MHT (1x)
ORD-PDX (1x)
ORD-SJC (1x)


Amazing how AA has gutted ORD. Let’s hope for a comeback! We all benefit from strong competition.


I agree that competition is beneficial to all of us but if AA isn’t going to compete at ORD, transfer some gates to UA, they could use some more. How does that work at ORD, can AA just squat on them and underutilize them?
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 26886
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:42 pm

The APA Board of Directors has rejected a proposed Tentative Agreement with a 15-5 vote.
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 1098
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:32 am

 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 7225
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:57 am

United787 wrote:
avi8 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AA will be running a stronger leaning THU/FRI/SUN schedule for January. AA's ORD operation is looking very interesting, for example, in January:

A lot of these aren't new frequency drops, but a lot are -

Monday (Jan 2020 Monday frequency)
ORD-DFW 8x (13x)
ORD-CLT 6x (9x)
ORD-MIA 6x (9x)
ORD-PHX 6x (9x)
ORD-CMH 3x (8x)
ORD-IND 3x (7x)
ORD-CLE 3x (6x)
ORD-MCI 3x (6x)
ORD-STL 3x (6x)
ORD-MCO 3x (5x)
ORD-BWI 2x (4x)
ORD-CVG 2x (7x)
ORD-DSM 2x (6x)
ORD-DTW 2x (6x)
ORD-MSP 2x (6x)
ORD-GRB 2x (5x)
ORD-OMA 2x (5x)
ORD-PIT 2x (5x)
ORD-XNA 2x (5x)
ORD-SFO 2x (4x)
ORD-CMI 1x (5x)
ORD-FLL 1x (4x)
ORD-MDT 1x (4x)
ORD-SYR 1x (4x)
ORD-AZO 1x (3x)
ORD-ALB 1x (3x)
ORD-ATW 1x (3x)
ORD-BMI 1x (3x)
ORD-BUF 1x (3x)
ORD-CWA 1x (3x)
ORD-FNT 1x (3x)
ORD-MLI 1x (3x)
ORD-PBI 1x (3x)
ORD-PIA 1x (3x)
ORD-TUL 1x (3x)
ORD-BHM 1x (2x)
ORD-GSP 1x (2x)
ORD-HSV 1x (2x)
ORD-JAX 1x (2x)
ORD-MSY 1x (2x)
ORD-SEA 1x (2x)

Cut for Jan
ORD-ABE (1x)
ORD-AVP (2x)
ORD-COU (3x)
ORD-EYW Sat only (1x)
ORD-SMF (1x)

Cut for longer
ORD-MHT (1x)
ORD-PDX (1x)
ORD-SJC (1x)


Amazing how AA has gutted ORD. Let’s hope for a comeback! We all benefit from strong competition.


I agree that competition is beneficial to all of us but if AA isn’t going to compete at ORD, transfer some gates to UA, they could use some more. How does that work at ORD, can AA just squat on them and underutilize them?


AA would never transfer gates to a big competitor.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4951
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:34 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
United787 wrote:
avi8 wrote:

Amazing how AA has gutted ORD. Let’s hope for a comeback! We all benefit from strong competition.


I agree that competition is beneficial to all of us but if AA isn’t going to compete at ORD, transfer some gates to UA, they could use some more. How does that work at ORD, can AA just squat on them and underutilize them?


AA would never transfer gates to a big competitor.


AA also doesn't make long term decisions based on short term circumstances. AA/ORD gates will be utilized again come Spring, they just have to get the regional flying sorted out this Winter. AA will actually have more gates because they are getting the gates AS uses in G back when Alaska moves to T2.
 
DFWandOMA
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:41 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Fri Nov 04, 2022 3:30 pm

AA used to have a page on their website showing all of the seasonal domestic and international routes and the date range they flew them. Would anyone have a site that listed the dates for their seasonal international routes? The date rangse for the ones I'm specifically wanting to know about are ORD/PHL/JFK-ATH.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4951
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Nov 05, 2022 4:02 am

DFWandOMA wrote:
AA used to have a page on their website showing all of the seasonal domestic and international routes and the date range they flew them. Would anyone have a site that listed the dates for their seasonal international routes? The date rangse for the ones I'm specifically wanting to know about are ORD/PHL/JFK-ATH.


You can just do that on Google Flights. Set the filters as AA and nonstop flights only and just scroll through the calendar.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:56 pm

DFWandOMA wrote:
AA used to have a page on their website showing all of the seasonal domestic and international routes and the date range they flew them. Would anyone have a site that listed the dates for their seasonal international routes? The date rangse for the ones I'm specifically wanting to know about are ORD/PHL/JFK-ATH.


As of now, all 3 flights start on May 4th. Not sure about the end because October of 2023 has not been uploaded yet.

Meanwhile, UA starts EWR - ATH at the beginning of April and DL flies JFK - ATH almost year-round.
 
jplatts
Posts: 6375
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:54 pm

There are some additional destinations not currently served by B6 such as CMH/IND/SDF/MEM/STL that B6 might inherit through the B6-NK merger if the B6-NK merger gets approved.

Is AA likely to drop BOS-CMH/IND/SDF/MEM/STL nonstop service if B6 resumes BOS-CMH nonstop service and B6 adds BOS-IND/SDF/MEM/STL nonstop service?

There are a few non-AA hub domestic destinations not currently served by either B6 or NK such as CVG, MDT, HHH, TVC, and ILM that would probably continue to be served nonstop by AA out of BOS regardless of the B6-NK merger.

AA would also probably continue to serve AUS nonstop from BOS, even if the B6-NK merger happens, with AUS already having nonstop service out of BOS on both B6 metal and AA metal.

AA also has opportunities to add nonstop service out of BOS to additional destinations not currently served by B6 or NK such as BHM, DSM, GSP, MSN, OKC, and OMA.

AA would also be able to use the regional jets that are currently used on BOS-CMH/IND/SDF/MEM on other p2p nonstop routes out of BOS if B6 BOS-CMH/IND/SDF/MEM nonstop service is added and AA BOS-CMH/IND/SDF/MEM nonstop service is dropped.
 
voxkel
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:11 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
1) Per data.census.gov, DFW's rather large Hispanic population is 75% Mexican and and another 11% Salvadoran. That isn't a huge pool to draw from for other Hispanic groups when a large part of Latin American travel is VFR.
2) Demand for travel to the Hispanic Caribbean and South America is VERY heavily skewed towards the East Coast with Miami, NYC, and Orlando taking the lions share. The only markets west of the Mississippi that have a sizable O&D to those regions are LA, Houston, and San Francisco. While DFW could certainly capture from those markets, why bother when those places are well served MIA and there really aren't many DFW-specific spokes that need them?
3) One of DFW's biggest selling points was it was the premier connecting point between South America and Asia. With Asia traffic in the gutter, it takes some wind out of those sails.


I've noticed Argentina is an exception to this. AA just upgraded DFW-EZE to a 77E (even sometimes flying the 77W like tonight) while DFW-GRU, historically 77W, is now only a 789. It seems like EZE is the largest South American market from Texas (more than GRU).

Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru communities are very East Coast dominant, while Argentina is split between FL/CA having the highest population (57K in FL, 44K in CA per the 2010 Census). The DFW flight funnels in a lot of CA demand. LAX-EZE nonstop was tried, but apparently yields on that route were too low to justify (why, I don't know). MIA-EZE does wonders for AA due to being able to funnel traffic from across the US, and high yields driven by Latin American banks/HQ in Brickell.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4951
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:21 am

voxkel wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
1) Per data.census.gov, DFW's rather large Hispanic population is 75% Mexican and and another 11% Salvadoran. That isn't a huge pool to draw from for other Hispanic groups when a large part of Latin American travel is VFR.
2) Demand for travel to the Hispanic Caribbean and South America is VERY heavily skewed towards the East Coast with Miami, NYC, and Orlando taking the lions share. The only markets west of the Mississippi that have a sizable O&D to those regions are LA, Houston, and San Francisco. While DFW could certainly capture from those markets, why bother when those places are well served MIA and there really aren't many DFW-specific spokes that need them?
3) One of DFW's biggest selling points was it was the premier connecting point between South America and Asia. With Asia traffic in the gutter, it takes some wind out of those sails.


I've noticed Argentina is an exception to this. AA just upgraded DFW-EZE to a 77E (even sometimes flying the 77W like tonight) while DFW-GRU, historically 77W, is now only a 789. It seems like EZE is the largest South American market from Texas (more than GRU).

Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru communities are very East Coast dominant, while Argentina is split between FL/CA having the highest population (57K in FL, 44K in CA per the 2010 Census). The DFW flight funnels in a lot of CA demand. LAX-EZE nonstop was tried, but apparently yields on that route were too low to justify (why, I don't know). MIA-EZE does wonders for AA due to being able to funnel traffic from across the US, and high yields driven by Latin American banks/HQ in Brickell.


AA's 77E's have 12 fewer seats than the 789 fleet (273 vs. 285)
 
dcajet
Posts: 6229
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:06 pm

voxkel wrote:
I've noticed Argentina is an exception to this. AA just upgraded DFW-EZE to a 77E (even sometimes flying the 77W like tonight) while DFW-GRU, historically 77W, is now only a 789. It seems like EZE is the largest South American market from Texas (more than GRU).

Colombia, Ecuador, and Peru communities are very East Coast dominant, while Argentina is split between FL/CA having the highest population (57K in FL, 44K in CA per the 2010 Census). The DFW flight funnels in a lot of CA demand. LAX-EZE nonstop was tried, but apparently yields on that route were too low to justify (why, I don't know). MIA-EZE does wonders for AA due to being able to funnel traffic from across the US, and high yields driven by Latin American banks/HQ in Brickell.


It looks like last night's upgauge on AA997/6 was just a one off. The 77W carried 281 paxs (per data from the EZE operator) which is slightly more than the capacity of the 77E. But I wouldn't read much into it.

Brazil is still the largest market from Texas, if only because of the sheer size of Brazil's economy/demand (keep in mind the economy of the whole of Argentina is roughly the same size of the state of Sao Paulo. And you also mustn't forget the flights from IAH on United: one to GRU and one to GIG. So that´s 3 fights every evening to Brazil, to Argentina's 1.

As an Argentinian-American myself, I can point out that comparing the northern SA and Central American/Mexican travel patterns to the US with those from deep South America, such as Argentina, is not an apples to apples comparison. There are just 165,000 persons born in Argentina living in the US (source: Pew Research). There are -at least- 10x more people born in Mexico alone in my neck of the woods, the SF Bay area and 5x more Peruvians living in the USA. Argentinians are just a tiny bleep on the radar screen and barely move the needle. Thus, flights to Argentina depends WAY less on VFR travel patterns and more on tourism and business travel. Additionally, while American Airlines flights to MIA and JFK are mostly fed from the Argentina POS, the flight from DFW skews US POS.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4951
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:01 pm

AA seems to have just loaded the return of JFK-YYZ starting in January.
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 7448
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
AA seems to have just loaded the return of JFK-YYZ starting in January.


Moves from BOS

PHL-CAK cut as well
 
DFWandOMA
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:41 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:36 pm

Any rumors or updates on when we might expect to get AA's S23 routes?
 
Detroit313
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:50 pm

Any schedule updates uploaded this weekend?
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2373
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

Re: American Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:08 pm

Schedule is still through February 19 after that still place holding. Surprised we haven’t seen an update through March at least by now. Delta and United have already published out through March

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