PHL-FCO shifts to the 789 on 9/26

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Guessing the PHL-AMS tweak is attributable to the chaos at AMS airport. ZRH ultimately reduced to 3 x weekly in winter has me wondering if this route is on the chopping block or eventually set to shift back to JFK where it, theoretically, could command more premium traffic. The issue there though is the 777-200ER is too much plane for JFK-ZRH on AA and JFK is not a 787 base so perhaps any such change is a while away. Looks like a lot of 787-8s are being subbed in for 77Es, even in places like DFW and in MIA as far as TATL goes. Curious if this is maintenance cycle driven or focused capacity cuts.

I am curious about the ZRH schedule into Dec-Mar. AA notoriously slashes TA capacity the week of Thanksgiving and Christmas. I expect many more cuts in that time frame.

Longer term, Roche will base their global gene therapy hub in Philadelphia probably by 2026. It is only one company but one that may generate additional premium traffic.

SurfandSnow wrote:

jplatts wrote:

Here are the Q1 2022 PDEW's out of DFW/DAL of the top domestic destinations traveled to from DFW/DAL that don't currently have AA nonstop service out of DFW:
DFW/DAL-MDW - 357 (AA serves ORD in Chicago nonstop from DFW)
DFW/DAL-OAK - 161 (AA serves SFO/SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DFW)
DFW/DAL-LGB - 105 (AA serves LAX/BUR/ONT/SNA in Greater Los Angeles nonstop from DFW)
DFW/DAL-ALB - 40
DFW/DAL-ROC - 35
DFW/DAL-AVP - 22
DFW/DAL-MFR - 17
DFW/DAL-RDM - 17
DFW/DAL-CHO - 16
DFW/DAL-PSC - 15
DFW/DAL-ROA - 15
DFW/DAL-ATW - 13
DFW/DAL-GRB - 13
DFW/DAL-BGR - 12
DFW/DAL-OAJ - 12

Any likelihood of AA adding nonstop service out of DFW to any of the above destinations? If so, which of the above markets are most likely to see nonstop service to DFW added by AA?

Wow, did AA already end DFW-LGB service? IIRC, a 1x daily E-175 service was launched last year or earlier this year. Must not have lasted long, if it ever even began...

I guess we could chalk that one up, along with DAL-MDW and DAL-OAK, a WN victory over AA. Then again, it has been years since AA attempted DFW-MDW. AA's last DFW-OAK service was a very early

lat41 wrote:

Wow, did AA already end DFW-LGB service? IIRC, a 1x daily E-175 service was launched last year or earlier this year. Must not have lasted long, if it ever even began...

It did fly, but the timings were not ideal, a midday turn, IIRC. A coworker flew it DFW-LGB as part of an open jaw, and chose that only because there were no better options to LAX or SNA on a last minute trip.

usairways85 wrote:

PHL-FCO shifts to the 789 on 9/26

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Guessing the PHL-AMS tweak is attributable to the chaos at AMS airport. ZRH ultimately reduced to 3 x weekly in winter has me wondering if this route is on the chopping block or eventually set to shift back to JFK where it, theoretically, could command more premium traffic. The issue there though is the 777-200ER is too much plane for JFK-ZRH on AA and JFK is not a 787 base so perhaps any such change is a while away. Looks like a lot of 787-8s are being subbed in for 77Es, even in places like DFW and in MIA as far as TATL goes. Curious if this is maintenance cycle driven or focused capacity cuts.

I am curious about the ZRH schedule into Dec-Mar. AA notoriously slashes TA capacity the week of Thanksgiving and Christmas. I expect many more cuts in that time frame.

Longer term, Roche will base their global gene therapy hub in Philadelphia probably by 2026. It is only one company but one that may generate additional premium traffic.

Traditionally, TATL capacity is slashed during the Thanksgiving period as demand slows substantially but also this frees up aircraft, and specifically wide bodies and higher capacity narrow bodies at some airlines, to help with irregular ops, between hubs, and so forth in what we all know is a crazy busy travel period. This year, it will all be further exacerbated by staffing shortages and the potential for any COVID resurgence in the Fall.

PHL-ZRH service has a long history. SR served the market (I think via BOS) for years. AA has been in the Swiss market since 1987 and at one time, flew DFW, ORD, and JFK to ZRH. As someone else pointed out, DFW-ZRH was at one time, a very high yielding route for AA. The market is there as well for some of the pharma companies in and around NJ catchment, though presumably most of that goes out of EWR on UA/LX.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

usairways85 wrote:

PHL-FCO shifts to the 789 on 9/26

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Guessing the PHL-AMS tweak is attributable to the chaos at AMS airport. ZRH ultimately reduced to 3 x weekly in winter has me wondering if this route is on the chopping block or eventually set to shift back to JFK where it, theoretically, could command more premium traffic. The issue there though is the 777-200ER is too much plane for JFK-ZRH on AA and JFK is not a 787 base so perhaps any such change is a while away. Looks like a lot of 787-8s are being subbed in for 77Es, even in places like DFW and in MIA as far as TATL goes. Curious if this is maintenance cycle driven or focused capacity cuts.

I am curious about the ZRH schedule into Dec-Mar. AA notoriously slashes TA capacity the week of Thanksgiving and Christmas. I expect many more cuts in that time frame.

Longer term, Roche will base their global gene therapy hub in Philadelphia probably by 2026. It is only one company but one that may generate additional premium traffic.

Traditionally, TATL capacity is slashed during the Thanksgiving period as demand slows substantially but also this frees up aircraft, and specifically wide bodies and higher capacity narrow bodies at some airlines, to help with irregular ops, between hubs, and so forth in what we all know is a crazy busy travel period. This year, it will all be further exacerbated by staffing shortages and the potential for any COVID resurgence in the Fall.

PHL-ZRH service has a long history. SR served the market (I think via BOS) for years. AA has been in the Swiss market since 1987 and at one time, flew DFW, ORD, and JFK to ZRH. As someone else pointed out, DFW-ZRH was at one time, a very high yielding route for AA. The market is there as well for some of the pharma companies in and around NJ catchment, though presumably most of that goes out of EWR on UA/LX.

It's interesting that with the hullabaloo around AA favoring JFK over PHL that JFK-FCO is cut end of October while PHL is running year round and now upgauged. Also seven year-round routes are being cut on AA metal from JFK (three do overlap with B6), and while PHL is also losing some destinations, most are seasonal and not mainline. Just an observation.

aerace wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

usairways85 wrote:

PHL-FCO shifts to the 789 on 9/26


I am curious about the ZRH schedule into Dec-Mar. AA notoriously slashes TA capacity the week of Thanksgiving and Christmas. I expect many more cuts in that time frame.

Longer term, Roche will base their global gene therapy hub in Philadelphia probably by 2026. It is only one company but one that may generate additional premium traffic.

Traditionally, TATL capacity is slashed during the Thanksgiving period as demand slows substantially but also this frees up aircraft, and specifically wide bodies and higher capacity narrow bodies at some airlines, to help with irregular ops, between hubs, and so forth in what we all know is a crazy busy travel period. This year, it will all be further exacerbated by staffing shortages and the potential for any COVID resurgence in the Fall.

PHL-ZRH service has a long history. SR served the market (I think via BOS) for years. AA has been in the Swiss market since 1987 and at one time, flew DFW, ORD, and JFK to ZRH. As someone else pointed out, DFW-ZRH was at one time, a very high yielding route for AA. The market is there as well for some of the pharma companies in and around NJ catchment, though presumably most of that goes out of EWR on UA/LX.

It's interesting that with the hullabaloo around AA favoring JFK over PHL that JFK-FCO is cut end of October while PHL is running year round and now upgauged. Also seven year-round routes are being cut on AA metal from JFK (three do overlap with B6), and while PHL is also losing some destinations, most are seasonal and not mainline. Just an observation.

JFK-FCO has always been seasonal on AA, and pre-pandemic, continued to get extended, starting earlier (March/April) and running to end of October. When it first launched, it was operating early May to end of September. Nothing really new there. It does very well. PHL-FCO has generally always been year-round. The hub feed at PHL sustains that better than the feed AA gets at JFK, though DL (JFK) and UA (EWR) make FCO work year round from the NY Area, with reduced frequencies (UA).

ContinentalEWR wrote:

aerace wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

Traditionally, TATL capacity is slashed during the Thanksgiving period as demand slows substantially but also this frees up aircraft, and specifically wide bodies and higher capacity narrow bodies at some airlines, to help with irregular ops, between hubs, and so forth in what we all know is a crazy busy travel period. This year, it will all be further exacerbated by staffing shortages and the potential for any COVID resurgence in the Fall.

PHL-ZRH service has a long history. SR served the market (I think via BOS) for years. AA has been in the Swiss market since 1987 and at one time, flew DFW, ORD, and JFK to ZRH. As someone else pointed out, DFW-ZRH was at one time, a very high yielding route for AA. The market is there as well for some of the pharma companies in and around NJ catchment, though presumably most of that goes out of EWR on UA/LX.

It's interesting that with the hullabaloo around AA favoring JFK over PHL that JFK-FCO is cut end of October while PHL is running year round and now upgauged. Also seven year-round routes are being cut on AA metal from JFK (three do overlap with B6), and while PHL is also losing some destinations, most are seasonal and not mainline. Just an observation.

JFK-FCO has always been seasonal on AA, and pre-pandemic, continued to get extended, starting earlier (March/April) and running to end of October. When it first launched, it was operating early May to end of September. Nothing really new there. It does very well. PHL-FCO has generally always been year-round. The hub feed at PHL sustains that better than the feed AA gets at JFK, though DL (JFK) and UA (EWR) make FCO work year round from the NY Area, with reduced frequencies (UA).

Ahh ok. I know it's not the be all, end all but Wiki has it showing as year round..

Philadelphia is the only hub that’s going to service places like Rome, Amsterdam, Zurich, Dublin etc. in the winter, yet somehow people say it is irrelevant in the AA system. Lol!

Detroit313 wrote:

Philadelphia is the only hub that’s going to service places like Rome, Amsterdam, Zurich, Dublin etc. in the winter, yet somehow people say it is irrelevant in the AA system. Lol!

Who said that? No one has said PHL is irrelevant. Why do people exaggerate like this?


PHL’s importance is highly diminished with the NEA and a vastly larger and more premium market 60 miles north. But irrelevant? I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say that.

Jeremy

Detroit313 wrote:

Philadelphia is the only hub that’s going to service places like Rome, Amsterdam, Zurich, Dublin etc. in the winter, yet somehow people say it is irrelevant in the AA system. Lol!

PHL gets the respect that the fifth largest hub deserves.

Detroit313 wrote:

Philadelphia is the only hub that’s going to service places like Rome, Amsterdam, Zurich, Dublin etc. in the winter, yet somehow people say it is irrelevant in the AA system. Lol!

Doesn't look like anyone said it was irrelevant. PHL's size has changed since the pandemic upended the industry. It has seen its fair share of cuts but it remains the northeast hub for AA. The problem right now, is staffing and operational resources, which are spread thin, across the industry. AA has focused its growth since the pandemic on further bulking up at DFW, CLT, and then expanding and growing AUS, meeting the increased demand in MIA, and finally reshaping JFK, LGA, and BOS as a consequence of the NEA with B6. A lot of that growth has come at the expense of some hubs including PHL, LAX, and ORD.

It's often discussed here how small the holdrooms at CLT are and how they aren't designed for today's equipment, but I am simply shocked at the sheer number of destinations AA has scheduled A321 service from CLT this fall:

ALB, BUF, ROC, SYR, PVD, BOS, LGA, PWM, PIT, RDU, CHS, MSY, AUS, DFW, MEM, BNA, STL, SLC, SLC, DEN, DCA, BWI, PHL, IAD, RIC, LAS, LAX, PHX, ONT, SMF, PDX, SEA, SFO, SJC, MCO, TPA, FLL, PBI, RSW, JAX, CUN, PLS, MBJ, SJU, GCM, and MKE.

Outrageous, and I could very well have missed some. A far cry when they were rare outside of Florida, hubs, NYC, BOS, and transcons. Obviously smaller cities may only have one flight per day on an A321, but there are plenty of medium sized cities (like RIC) that are scheduled to have more than one A321 flight per day.

There are a number of new mainline flights I see. CLT-DAB now has 2x A319 flights per day in addition to 1x CR9. I don't remember DAB having mainline service outside of race season.

graham697 wrote:

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

AA has slashed 28,000 flights or 17% of its November schedule, a significant number. This really highlights AA's serious financial condition. I see this as a sign of trying to preserve cash and avoid a bankruptcy this fall and winter.

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ ... tKiJNmP-Ec

Umm, I think this is them being much more realistic with operational realities, plus forecasted demand. If demand is starting to fade it makes sense to file a much more reasonable schedule to keep yields up. Sure they are extremely debt heavy, but they are not a 'going concern' just yet.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/august-8 ... 6Tcg%3D%3D

The 28,000 flights or 17% of schedule reflects the reduction vs the placeholder schedule, not vs. 2019. They've been scheduling at that 91-93% range of 2019 since at least the June schedule, so its basically status quo in terms of capacity

It would be nice to see AA commit to PHL with some facility upgrades. While they are not as badly overcrowded as say, CLT, PHL A-East, B, and C are very old and outdated facilities that should be up for replacement. Also, if things get going full swing again, PHL was already running up against the limits of what it could handle in terms of international departures and arrivals.

In the bigger picture of hub infrastructure:

1) CLT: Woefully underbuilt compared to the volumes it handles. AA seems to think it's an acceptable situation. It isn't.
2) PHL: What I said; A-East, B/C need replacement.
3) DFW/ORD/DCA/LAX: I thought they just should have built a new, modern Terminal F instead of doing another TRIP-ped Concourse. On the whole though DFW is just barely good enough. Somehow AA has hacked it into something workable. ORD has aged well, although I hate the long walks to the L Stinger gates. It helps that they run ORD undercapacity. Thank god 35X is dead at DCA. I don't fly through LAX ever but get the sense that it is okay enough.
4) MIA: Better Eagle facilities would be good, but facilities wise it is generally good. It's everything else about MIA that needs a revamp.
5) PHX: Right sized, decent enough facilities. Just hate the interior design scheme. Best AA connecting hub.

USAirALB wrote:

jplatts wrote:

PVD757 wrote:

PVD should be on that list with 37.

Thank you for catching that, but the Q1 2022 PDEW of PVD-DFW/DAL was 34 passengers/day based on the DOT Consumer Airfare Report Table 1a.

Here are the updated Q1 2022 PDEW's out of DFW/DAL of the top domestic destinations traveled to from DFW/DAL that don't currently have AA nonstop service out of DFW:
DFW/DAL-MDW - 357 (AA serves ORD in Chicago nonstop from DFW)
DFW/DAL-OAK - 161 (AA serves SFO/SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area nonstop from DFW)
DFW/DAL-LGB - 105 (AA serves LAX/BUR/ONT/SNA in Greater Los Angeles nonstop from DFW)
DFW/DAL-ALB - 40
DFW/DAL-ROC - 35
DFW/DAL-PVD - 34
DFW/DAL-AVP - 22
DFW/DAL-MFR - 17
DFW/DAL-RDM - 17
DFW/DAL-CHO - 16
DFW/DAL-PSC - 15
DFW/DAL-ROA - 15
DFW/DAL-MHT - 15
DFW/DAL-ATW - 13
DFW/DAL-GRB - 13
DFW/DAL-BGR - 12
DFW/DAL-OAJ - 12

I doubt AA has any interest opening MDW, and they closed the OAK station in 2020. OAK was actually the first station AA closed during the pandemic. If AA were to return to OAK, it would be from PHX and not DFW. For some reason I had thought they served DFW-LGB with an E175. Was this recently just cut? DFW-ROC/PVD have both been served before, and AA did Saturday-seasonal DFW-BGR last summer.

Frankly the only routes on this list that are remotely likely to ever see AA nonstop service from DFW are LGB/ALB/ROC/PVD. I suppose one could make a case for DFW-MFR/RDM but AA serves both of those over PHX, which is likely able to handle most relevant connections. They also codeshare with AS in those markets.

Both RDM and MFR both need a lot more capacity especially on AA as AA only serves PHX twice daily on CR7/ E75 which on average are very full especially RDM which lost twice daily flights to LAX on AA and G4 pulled out of the RDM-AZA market. As a note RDM is predicted to surpass EUG passenger numbers this year which AA currently flys A319's once daily to PHX and DFW.

GSP psgr wrote:

It would be nice to see AA commit to PHL with some facility upgrades. While they are not as badly overcrowded as say, CLT, PHL A-East, B, and C are very old and outdated facilities that should be up for replacement. Also, if things get going full swing again, PHL was already running up against the limits of what it could handle in terms of international departures and arrivals.

In the bigger picture of hub infrastructure:

1) CLT: Woefully underbuilt compared to the volumes it handles. AA seems to think it's an acceptable situation. It isn't.
2) PHL: What I said; A-East, B/C need replacement.
3) DFW/ORD/DCA/LAX: I thought they just should have built a new, modern Terminal F instead of doing another TRIP-ped Concourse. On the whole though DFW is just barely good enough. Somehow AA has hacked it into something workable. ORD has aged well, although I hate the long walks to the L Stinger gates. It helps that they run ORD undercapacity. Thank god 35X is dead at DCA. I don't fly through LAX ever but get the sense that it is okay enough.
4) MIA: Better Eagle facilities would be good, but facilities wise it is generally good. It's everything else about MIA that needs a revamp.
5) PHX: Right sized, decent enough facilities. Just hate the interior design scheme. Best AA connecting hub.

LAX is undergoing a $1.6+ billion renovation of AA's facilities and connection to the new people mover. Although AA's terminals weren't in that bad of shape, it's part of an airport-wide $15 billion modernization to bring the whole thing up to par and get it ready for the Olympics. Once that's complete, and they also get rid of the Eagle terminal down the road, it'll be a very nice AA hub.

Toyotagt1 wrote:

Both RDM and MFR both need a lot more capacity especially on AA as AA only serves PHX twice daily on CR7/ E75 which on average are very full especially RDM which lost twice daily flights to LAX on AA and G4 pulled out of the RDM-AZA market. As a note RDM is predicted to surpass EUG passenger numbers this year which AA currently flys A319's once daily to PHX and DFW.

AA's partner AS already serves MFR/RDM nonstop from LAX.

TXRoadMan wrote:

lat41 wrote:

Wow, did AA already end DFW-LGB service? IIRC, a 1x daily E-175 service was launched last year or earlier this year. Must not have lasted long, if it ever even began...

It did fly, but the timings were not ideal, a midday turn, IIRC. A coworker flew it DFW-LGB as part of an open jaw, and chose that only because there were no better options to LAX or SNA on a last minute trip.

It also tied up a lot of valuable E175 time for lower yield than what could be gotten elsewhere.

Toyotagt1 wrote:

Both RDM and MFR both need a lot more capacity especially on AA as AA only serves PHX twice daily on CR7/ E75 which on average are very full especially RDM which lost twice daily flights to LAX on AA and G4 pulled out of the RDM-AZA market. As a note RDM is predicted to surpass EUG passenger numbers this year which AA currently flys A319's once daily to PHX and DFW.

EUG is currently on a 319 out of PHX due to shortage of regional pilots - it is "supposed" to be 2x RJs for connections.

AA has tried 3x RDM/EUG/MFR in the past out of PHX; the challenge is the amount of aircraft time it takes (plus distance) as the first connecting bank going East out of PHX requires a 5AM departure from those cities which isn't always ideal. To go 3x, you either add an 8AM departure (which cannibalizes the 5AM) or a 11AM departure (with limited connections on an 8AM out of PHX) - it isn't ideal. Once PHX has a "normal" number of late night (2200+) flights again, you may be able to add a third flight with a 7PM departure.

Hello, I know third time I am asking but no one chimed in yet; is today the last day for MIA CTM or is it scheduled to come back? It was launched this year as a new route twice weekly. Thanks for any info

At some point in 2020 wasn't PHL essentially a spoke on certain days of the week?

AAtakeMeAway wrote:

At some point in 2020 wasn't PHL essentially a spoke on certain days of the week?

A bit of an unfair comparison, given that in 2020 much of the industry was in crisis given the onset of the pandemic and long haul intercontinental flying was pulled down across the board. PHL being AA's primary TATL gateway at the time was a factor, with border closures and other restrictions by then very much in place. I would not have called it a spoke, but given the huge drawdown in flights, parked planes, laid off staff, and so forth, PHL was severely impacted, but so were other hubs across the board.

I don't see AA giving up on PHL or de hubbing it. There's no question growth in places like CLT, AUS, MIA etc...have come at PHL's expense. The airport though is AA's NE hub. Will it be a 400+ operation in the future? Maybe not. A 275-350 a day operation? More likely.

ContinentalEWR wrote:

I don't see AA giving up on PHL or de hubbing it. There's no question growth in places like CLT, AUS, MIA etc...have come at PHL's expense. The airport though is AA's NE hub. Will it be a 400+ operation in the future? Maybe not. A 275-350 a day operation? More likely.

Agreed. AA probably now has to wait and see what happens between its new partner B6 and NK before it can do any major strategic moves in the Northeast. I just can't see them throwing in the towel on routes like PHL-Caribbean, PHL-Florida and PHL-West Coast where they (mostly as US) have clearly done well for decades. All the while, markets throughout Florida, the Caribbean and West Coast have been tried by AA and/or US from NYC (JFK/LGA) for years, if not decades as well, without success. For example, while it isn't surprising to see AA ending JFK-LAS (again), it would be downright shocking to see them completely give up on something like PHL-LAS.

Further afield, something like TLV doesn't seem to work from PHL, but may indeed work from JFK. I suspect the same might be true for markets like Brazil and India, where New York's far superior O&D may very well be key to success.

FlyingSicilian wrote:

Hello, I know third time I am asking but no one chimed in yet; is today the last day for MIA CTM or is it scheduled to come back? It was launched this year as a new route twice weekly. Thanks for any info

Well to answer my own question, I finally found articles noting AA is canceling the route and not just suspending it.

One less spoke for Miami sadly. Too bad it did not catch on, I go there once a year for business and would have liked to have used AA again.

It looks like the 2nd PHL-LHR is suspended in November.

usairways85 wrote:

It looks like the 2nd PHL-LHR is suspended in November.

I seem to recall both CLT and PHL have their second LHR daily temporarily suspended during most of the winter in previous years. But my memory is not as good as before. And ORD normally down to 3 daily in winter as well, while MIA returns to double daily. But now the first year return to normal after Covid who knows what will happen.

chonetsao wrote:

usairways85 wrote:

It looks like the 2nd PHL-LHR is suspended in November.

I seem to recall both CLT and PHL have their second LHR daily temporarily suspended during most of the winter in previous years. But my memory is not as good as before. And ORD normally down to 3 daily in winter as well, while MIA returns to double daily. But now the first year return to normal after Covid who knows what will happen.

The 2nd PHL LHR usually suspends for the winter, pre Covid the flight moved to MIA for the winter (as it is doing this year as well)

chonetsao wrote:

usairways85 wrote:

It looks like the 2nd PHL-LHR is suspended in November.

I seem to recall both CLT and PHL have their second LHR daily temporarily suspended during most of the winter in previous years. But my memory is not as good as before. And ORD normally down to 3 daily in winter as well, while MIA returns to double daily. But now the first year return to normal after Covid who knows what will happen.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the 2nd CLT-LHR frequency has ever been suspended entirely during the winter, outside of maybe a few weeks in January and around the holidays.

As of right now, it is scheduled to operate throughout the fall and winter (sans for November 23/24), although that could very well change.

USAirALB wrote:

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the 2nd CLT-LHR frequency has ever been suspended entirely during the winter, outside of maybe a few weeks in January and around the holidays.

As of right now, it is scheduled to operate throughout the fall and winter (sans for November 23/24), although that could very well change.

You could be right, I was not sure neither, hence I said most of the winter months and admit that I could be wrong. But thanks to the poster above to confirm PHL second LHR daily suspension during winter.

I think CLT second daily is normally not on the schedule by Thanksgiving, then until after New Year maybe second week or third week of January. Thanksgiving and Christmas period certainly are not on the schedule if my memory is correct. However, I am not very sure if it is running in the first three weeks of December or not. I hope someone here can tell us from a reliable source. I think most likely you are right that it is only off the schedule for few weeks.

chonetsao wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the 2nd CLT-LHR frequency has ever been suspended entirely during the winter, outside of maybe a few weeks in January and around the holidays.

As of right now, it is scheduled to operate throughout the fall and winter (sans for November 23/24), although that could very well change.

You could be right, I was not sure neither, hence I said most of the winter months and admit that I could be wrong. But thanks to the poster above to confirm PHL second LHR daily suspension during winter.

I think CLT second daily is normally not on the schedule by Thanksgiving, then until after New Year maybe second week or third week of January. Thanksgiving and Christmas period certainly are not on the schedule if my memory is correct. However, I am not very sure if it is running in the first three weeks of December or not. I hope someone here can tell us from a reliable source. I think most likely you are right that it is only off the schedule for few weeks.

Since its introduction, the 2nd CLT LHR has operated into deep winter, it has been suspended around mid Jan to February, but AA runs two daily most of the year. The same thing has happened to the 2nd LAX LHR in years past (pre Covid)

Are these cuts new or are these cuts ones that have previously been discussed here? https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/amer ... %3A30%3A39

nwt0 wrote:

Are these cuts new or are these cuts ones that have previously been discussed here? https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/amer ... %3A30%3A39

They were loaded I think 2 weekends ago. Biz journals ran an article on it last week for about every city they cover.

nwt0 wrote:

Are these cuts new or are these cuts ones that have previously been discussed here? https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/amer ... %3A30%3A39

November schedule was updated a week or so ago. It was pretty much a place holder schedule set in advance from a long time ago. While flights are getting cut, capacity may still be the same in most markets.

For example my home airport CID was to be 4 CR9s to DFW, that got cut to 3 flights which are now on 2 E75s and 1 A319. CLT was to be 2 CR9s and now 1 A319 and so forth. Lots of changes like this across the board. Looks like the December schedule
hasn’t been updated yet and it pretty much mirrors the old
November schedule but I would anticipate the changes for Nov being rolled forward

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Int’l:
PHL-GLA/HEL/MXP/BRU
CLT-AMS/BOG/YYC
DFW-ZRH
MIA-CUZ/MTY
PHX-YYZ
ORD-KRK/AMS

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Mannoroth wrote:

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Int’l:
PHL-GLA/HEL/MXP/BRU
CLT-AMS/BOG/YYC
DFW-ZRH
MIA-CUZ/MTY
PHX-YYZ
ORD-KRK/AMS

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Could see DFW-ZRH, ORD-KRK

MIA-MTY is already flown

AA has always been weak in AMS, and with UA and KL flying from ORD I don’t see it happening, CLT either.

Could also see ORD-WAW/PRG/BUD and ORD-DUB year round, PHL-DBV, DFW-ATH/TLV/VCE, MIA-CDG, CLT-DUB/CDG, JFK-BER/MAN/AMS/BRU; all would depend on the 787 deliveries and some (JFK) depend on the 321XLR deliveries.

Tons of North America demand for CUZ and/or Chinchero when completed but altitude and terrain is a problem. Otherwise you would already have 2 or 3 flights a day to MIA and a daily to IAH and ATL for example.

Mannoroth wrote:

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Tough for me to see IND-MCI and CVG-STL happening. IND-MEM seems like it would depend on how much Fedex wants to pay for it.

MLIAA wrote:

Mannoroth wrote:

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Int’l:
PHL-GLA/HEL/MXP/BRU
CLT-AMS/BOG/YYC
DFW-ZRH
MIA-CUZ/MTY
PHX-YYZ
ORD-KRK/AMS

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Could see DFW-ZRH, ORD-KRK

MIA-MTY is already flown

AA has always been weak in AMS, and with UA and KL flying from ORD I don’t see it happening, CLT either.

Could also see ORD-WAW/PRG/BUD and ORD-DUB year round, PHL-DBV, DFW-ATH/TLV/VCE, MIA-CDG, CLT-DUB/CDG, JFK-BER/MAN/AMS/BRU; all would depend on the 787 deliveries and some (JFK) depend on the 321XLR deliveries.

Add PHL-NAP to my wishlist. Didn't UA do well on EWR-NAP pre-covid? No reason AA couldn't also try it. Would make way more sense than BLQ IMHO.

For summer 2023 I could see PRG and EDI return out of PHL. Both are leisure and Vasu had said he wanted to fly PRG this year had the additional 787’s arrived in time.

MLIAA wrote:

Mannoroth wrote:

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Int’l:
PHL-GLA/HEL/MXP/BRU
CLT-AMS/BOG/YYC
DFW-ZRH
MIA-CUZ/MTY
PHX-YYZ
ORD-KRK/AMS

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Could see DFW-ZRH, ORD-KRK

MIA-MTY is already flown

AA has always been weak in AMS, and with UA and KL flying from ORD I don’t see it happening, CLT either.

Could also see ORD-WAW/PRG/BUD and ORD-DUB year round, PHL-DBV, DFW-ATH/TLV/VCE, MIA-CDG, CLT-DUB/CDG, JFK-BER/MAN/AMS/BRU; all would depend on the 787 deliveries and some (JFK) depend on the 321XLR deliveries.

AA is already flying CLT-DUB with a 772.

9w748capt wrote:

MLIAA wrote:

Mannoroth wrote:

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Int’l:
PHL-GLA/HEL/MXP/BRU
CLT-AMS/BOG/YYC
DFW-ZRH
MIA-CUZ/MTY
PHX-YYZ
ORD-KRK/AMS

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Could see DFW-ZRH, ORD-KRK

MIA-MTY is already flown

AA has always been weak in AMS, and with UA and KL flying from ORD I don’t see it happening, CLT either.

Could also see ORD-WAW/PRG/BUD and ORD-DUB year round, PHL-DBV, DFW-ATH/TLV/VCE, MIA-CDG, CLT-DUB/CDG, JFK-BER/MAN/AMS/BRU; all would depend on the 787 deliveries and some (JFK) depend on the 321XLR deliveries.

Add PHL-NAP to my wishlist. Didn't UA do well on EWR-NAP pre-covid? No reason AA couldn't also try it. Would make way more sense than BLQ IMHO.

EWR-NAP launched in 2018 and did well. It came back in 2019 and then returned in 2022. The route does well as it is a gateway to the Amalfi Coast, Positano, and increasingly popular Puglia region, as well as Naples itself. I've wondered if AA would launch PHL-NAP with more wide body capacity. PHL-BLQ was a disaster. As I recall, it was dropped before the planned end date. On some days, it went out with fewer than 50 passengers, I heard and POS from Bologna and region was non-existent. It's a shame, because BLQ is a good gateway to many places in the region, and so is a Verona flight (Verona's airport is actually quite big), but I don't see a US carrier launching Verona just yet.

9w748capt wrote:

MLIAA wrote:

Mannoroth wrote:

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Int’l:
PHL-GLA/HEL/MXP/BRU
CLT-AMS/BOG/YYC
DFW-ZRH
MIA-CUZ/MTY
PHX-YYZ
ORD-KRK/AMS

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Could see DFW-ZRH, ORD-KRK

MIA-MTY is already flown

AA has always been weak in AMS, and with UA and KL flying from ORD I don’t see it happening, CLT either.

Could also see ORD-WAW/PRG/BUD and ORD-DUB year round, PHL-DBV, DFW-ATH/TLV/VCE, MIA-CDG, CLT-DUB/CDG, JFK-BER/MAN/AMS/BRU; all would depend on the 787 deliveries and some (JFK) depend on the 321XLR deliveries.

Add PHL-NAP to my wishlist. Didn't UA do well on EWR-NAP pre-covid? No reason AA couldn't also try it. Would make way more sense than BLQ IMHO.

UA is doing well on EWR-NAP now also it seems.

They had announced Palermo and that never started due to COVID. Wish AA (or UA) would start Catania as that is the bigger airport with more tourists and more Americans travelling due to Sigonella. Palermo has the name recognition and more VFR traffic though. Either way a thrice weekly PHL or NYC-Sicily flight would work IMO especially with the prior options from Italy ceasing operations.

Did AA cancel PHL-KIN? If so, did it ever actually fly or was it axed before the first flight?

ContinentalEWR wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

MLIAA wrote:

Could see DFW-ZRH, ORD-KRK

MIA-MTY is already flown

AA has always been weak in AMS, and with UA and KL flying from ORD I don’t see it happening, CLT either.

Could also see ORD-WAW/PRG/BUD and ORD-DUB year round, PHL-DBV, DFW-ATH/TLV/VCE, MIA-CDG, CLT-DUB/CDG, JFK-BER/MAN/AMS/BRU; all would depend on the 787 deliveries and some (JFK) depend on the 321XLR deliveries.

Add PHL-NAP to my wishlist. Didn't UA do well on EWR-NAP pre-covid? No reason AA couldn't also try it. Would make way more sense than BLQ IMHO.

EWR-NAP launched in 2018 and did well. It came back in 2019 and then returned in 2022. The route does well as it is a gateway to the Amalfi Coast, Positano, and increasingly popular Puglia region, as well as Naples itself. I've wondered if AA would launch PHL-NAP with more wide body capacity. PHL-BLQ was a disaster. As I recall, it was dropped before the planned end date. On some days, it went out with fewer than 50 passengers, I heard and POS from Bologna and region was non-existent. It's a shame, because BLQ is a good gateway to many places in the region, and so is a Verona flight (Verona's airport is actually quite big), but I don't see a US carrier launching Verona just yet.

Frankly after the whole BLQ debacle, I don't see AA attempting secondary markets in Italy for quite some time IMO.

I do see them venturing into secondary markets in Spain, however. IIRC AA management has consistently said that they do very well in Spain. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA eventually launch PHL-AGP/PMI, although they might wait until they have the A321XLR on property to do so. I could also see CLT-BCN resuming, eventually.

USAirALB wrote:

I do see them venturing into secondary markets in Spain, however. IIRC AA management has consistently said that they do very well in Spain. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA eventually launch PHL-AGP/PMI, although they might wait until they have the A321XLR on property to do so. I could also see CLT-BCN resuming, eventually.

One big difference between Spain and Italy is that IB in Spain is in the oneworld alliance whereas AZ in Italy is in the SkyTeam alliance.

AA also likely has more Spanish point-of-sale on its U.S.-Spain nonstop routes due to the AA-IB partnership, whereas more of the point-of-sale of AA's U.S.-Italy nonstop routes is likely on the U.S. side.

jplatts wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

I do see them venturing into secondary markets in Spain, however. IIRC AA management has consistently said that they do very well in Spain. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA eventually launch PHL-AGP/PMI, although they might wait until they have the A321XLR on property to do so. I could also see CLT-BCN resuming, eventually.

One big difference between Spain and Italy is that IB in Spain is in the oneworld alliance whereas AZ in Italy is in the SkyTeam alliance.

AA also likely has more Spanish point-of-sale on its U.S.-Spain nonstop routes due to the AA-IB partnership, whereas more of the point-of-sale of AA's U.S.-Italy nonstop routes is likely on the U.S. side.

FCO and VCE cater to American tourists, thats mostly US point of sale. MXP OTOH is not a tourism driven route, hence why it operates year round ,while it skews towards US point of sale it is a higher mix than eitherof the other two stations.

USAirALB wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

Add PHL-NAP to my wishlist. Didn't UA do well on EWR-NAP pre-covid? No reason AA couldn't also try it. Would make way more sense than BLQ IMHO.

EWR-NAP launched in 2018 and did well. It came back in 2019 and then returned in 2022. The route does well as it is a gateway to the Amalfi Coast, Positano, and increasingly popular Puglia region, as well as Naples itself. I've wondered if AA would launch PHL-NAP with more wide body capacity. PHL-BLQ was a disaster. As I recall, it was dropped before the planned end date. On some days, it went out with fewer than 50 passengers, I heard and POS from Bologna and region was non-existent. It's a shame, because BLQ is a good gateway to many places in the region, and so is a Verona flight (Verona's airport is actually quite big), but I don't see a US carrier launching Verona just yet.

Frankly after the whole BLQ debacle, I don't see AA attempting secondary markets in Italy for quite some time IMO.

I do see them venturing into secondary markets in Spain, however. IIRC AA management has consistently said that they do very well in Spain. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA eventually launch PHL-AGP/PMI, although they might wait until they have the A321XLR on property to do so. I could also see CLT-BCN resuming, eventually.

BLQ is barely known to Americans, it was a risky experient that did not work. PMI is not a destination Americans are familiar with, I would be surprised if UA has many more summers there, would be even more surprised if TFS returns next summer on UA (but thats for a different thread). I don’t see PMI even with the 321XLR on AA metal, best served via MAD on IB. I can see Malaga with the XLR though

chepos wrote:

jplatts wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

I do see them venturing into secondary markets in Spain, however. IIRC AA management has consistently said that they do very well in Spain. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA eventually launch PHL-AGP/PMI, although they might wait until they have the A321XLR on property to do so. I could also see CLT-BCN resuming, eventually.

One big difference between Spain and Italy is that IB in Spain is in the oneworld alliance whereas AZ in Italy is in the SkyTeam alliance.

AA also likely has more Spanish point-of-sale on its U.S.-Spain nonstop routes due to the AA-IB partnership, whereas more of the point-of-sale of AA's U.S.-Italy nonstop routes is likely on the U.S. side.

FCO and VCE cater to American tourists, thats mostly US point of sale. MXP OTOH is not a tourism driven route, hence why it operates year round ,while it skews towards US point of sale it is a higher mix than eitherof the other two stations.

MXP has strong POS from both the US (for the cities that are served year round) and Italy. It sits in one of Italy's wealthiest regions and generates a good amount of business traffic (in normalized times, anyway). MXP does see plenty of leisure traffic, as a destination onto its own, as a gateway to nearby Lake Como (less than 90 minutes by car) and a very popular place to visit). On the NY route, MXP supports multiple nonstops daily and is the biggest intercontinental market from MXP, with DL, EK, UA, AA, AZ, and Neos flying it pretty much year round.

USAirALB wrote:

ContinentalEWR wrote:

9w748capt wrote:

Add PHL-NAP to my wishlist. Didn't UA do well on EWR-NAP pre-covid? No reason AA couldn't also try it. Would make way more sense than BLQ IMHO.

EWR-NAP launched in 2018 and did well. It came back in 2019 and then returned in 2022. The route does well as it is a gateway to the Amalfi Coast, Positano, and increasingly popular Puglia region, as well as Naples itself. I've wondered if AA would launch PHL-NAP with more wide body capacity. PHL-BLQ was a disaster. As I recall, it was dropped before the planned end date. On some days, it went out with fewer than 50 passengers, I heard and POS from Bologna and region was non-existent. It's a shame, because BLQ is a good gateway to many places in the region, and so is a Verona flight (Verona's airport is actually quite big), but I don't see a US carrier launching Verona just yet.

Frankly after the whole BLQ debacle, I don't see AA attempting secondary markets in Italy for quite some time IMO.

I do see them venturing into secondary markets in Spain, however. IIRC AA management has consistently said that they do very well in Spain. I wouldn't be surprised to see AA eventually launch PHL-AGP/PMI, although they might wait until they have the A321XLR on property to do so. I could also see CLT-BCN resuming, eventually.

CLT-BCN will resume if cruise traffic rebounds strongly. Otherwise, AA has JFK, ORD, MIA, and PHL to BCN for now, in high season, and that's likely plenty. I'm not sure AA would launch secondary Spain, and most likely not PMI or AGP, which DL served and cut in 2019, from JFK. The 321XLR could very well be the plane AA uses across the Atlantic to core destinations like CDG either as a second frequency from, say JFK, or fully in replacement for the 777 during the January-March period on a route like that, and in the Northern Hemisphere Summer, fly principally to Latin America routes that may not need a wide body each day. the 321XLR could also be used to fly more business focused routes out of some northeast markets that would otherwise not work for AA on a 787 or 777.

Mannoroth wrote:

Thinking about bit about how AA may grow both domestically and internationally in 2023 and see several things possibly happening.

Int’l:
PHL-GLA/HEL/MXP/BRU
CLT-AMS/BOG/YYC
DFW-ZRH
MIA-CUZ/MTY
PHX-YYZ
ORD-KRK/AMS

Domestic:
AUS/BOS officially focus cities
IND/RDU get more p2p routes (including IND-MEM/MSY/MCI/RDU, RDU-BUF/MEM/JAX/MCI/STL)
Other p2p routes such as CVG-STL, MEM-TPA/MSY, OKC-BNA

Throw more CVG in there, basically any of DL's strong mid-sized markets pre-covid (CVG, RDU, BNA, MEM, IND, TPA, e.t.c):

"American Airlines’ CVG push: ‘We will be a force to reckon with’"

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/ ... -push.html

ContinentalEWR wrote:

chepos wrote:

jplatts wrote:

One big difference between Spain and Italy is that IB in Spain is in the oneworld alliance whereas AZ in Italy is in the SkyTeam alliance.

AA also likely has more Spanish point-of-sale on its U.S.-Spain nonstop routes due to the AA-IB partnership, whereas more of the point-of-sale of AA's U.S.-Italy nonstop routes is likely on the U.S. side.

FCO and VCE cater to American tourists, thats mostly US point of sale. MXP OTOH is not a tourism driven route, hence why it operates year round ,while it skews towards US point of sale it is a higher mix than eitherof the other two stations.

MXP has strong POS from both the US (for the cities that are served year round) and Italy. It sits in one of Italy's wealthiest regions and generates a good amount of business traffic (in normalized times, anyway). MXP does see plenty of leisure traffic, as a destination onto its own, as a gateway to nearby Lake Como (less than 90 minutes by car) and a very popular place to visit). On the NY route, MXP supports multiple nonstops daily and is the biggest intercontinental market from MXP, with DL, EK, UA, AA, AZ, and Neos flying it pretty much year round.

MXP is predominantly Italy POS and 75% of the traffic is headed to NYC or Miami. AA does well there because both of those places just happen to AA hubs. MXP has historically been unable to support service to any other US hub including LAX, ORD, ATL or IAD for good reason.