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janders
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United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:10 am

Welcome to the United Airlines Network Thread for 2022.

After trying out a quarterly combined Fleet, Network and Discussion thread, we have elected to revert back to separate Fleet and Network threads for 2022.

Link to the recent combined Q4 thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1465351
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:38 am

Big year for long haul intl flights:
-IAD-AMM/BER/HND
-EWR-HND/BGO/PDL/PMI/TFS/NCE
-ORD-MXP/ZRH
-DEN-MUC
-SFO-BLR
-LAX-HND
-BOS-LHR
What I hope to see:
-More intl routes out of DEN with the new gates opening up.
-More India flights (hopefully HYD, MAA).
-GYE service now that Ecuador has an Open Skies with the U.S.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:29 am

IAH-GYE will more than likely happen. It was done on CO not too many moons ago.

DEN-AMS is one I want to see, personally. And I think UA could stand to make SFO/LAX-BNE happen, as well as IAH-CDG come back. The later they can use as "the gateway to the southwest" for the likes of AUS, SAT and outdoorsy areas.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:38 am

I'd say SFO-MNL/BKK (yes I went there) would likely happen than SFO/LAX-BNE at this stage. Considering the news articles of UA filing an objection against the proposed PR/AA codeshare on the basis UA couldn't get slots for a 2nd GUM-MNL service, although theoretically UA could use the slots to start MNL-SFO.

Out of MNL or BKK, it's likely the former (SFO-MNL) than BKK as BKK is a thin route approaching ULR status. But both cities have heavier VFR traffic than BNE.

BNE is very likely to dependent on State Government/Tourism body funding as assistance for UA to 'start up' the service.

*Flame away*

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... ac548a3346
 
panam330
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:07 am

TWA772LR wrote:
DEN-AMS is one I want to see, personally.

+1. I personally would prefer DEN-CDG, however neither of these would make me sad to see. :D
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:19 am

TWA772LR wrote:
IAH-GYE will more than likely happen. It was done on CO not too many moons ago.

DEN-AMS is one I want to see, personally. And I think UA could stand to make SFO/LAX-BNE happen, as well as IAH-CDG come back. The later they can use as "the gateway to the southwest" for the likes of AUS, SAT and outdoorsy areas.


I agree with you on GYE. I am thinking DEN-ZRH could be the next UA long-haul route out of DEN simply because there is feed on both ends (Swiss in Zurich, United in Denver). Brisbane might be a bloodbath, especially if Qantas wants to run what would be on some days 3 flights to Brisbane this coming year. Again, I would expect ZRH to be added before CDG at IAH simply because of the connecting hubs on both ends.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:25 am

rjbesikof wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IAH-GYE will more than likely happen. It was done on CO not too many moons ago.

DEN-AMS is one I want to see, personally. And I think UA could stand to make SFO/LAX-BNE happen, as well as IAH-CDG come back. The later they can use as "the gateway to the southwest" for the likes of AUS, SAT and outdoorsy areas.


I agree with you on GYE. I am thinking DEN-ZRH could be the next UA long-haul route out of DEN simply because there is feed on both ends (Swiss in Zurich, United in Denver). Brisbane might be a bloodbath, especially if Qantas wants to run what would be on some days 3 flights to Brisbane this coming year. Again, I would expect ZRH to be added before CDG at IAH simply because of the connecting hubs on both ends.


Will likely be double daily BNE-LAX/SFO for QF, possibly the 2nd frequency may be initially split between SFO and ORD as per original pre-COVID plans. I personally can't see QF operating a 3rd frequency out of BNE.

Although BNE will have the VA feed given to UA from April, it's increasingly likely any 3rd frequency from BNE to USA is likely to be a partnership between the operator (likely UA) with funds from the Queensland Government and the Tourism Body, which is questionable amongst Queensland taxpayers on the social media section of the local newsrags, and I've been flamed before for questioning it (as there has been past international operators that couldn't make BNE work pre-COVID with the funding), but it does have its benefits if they are able to make it work (Edit: An example is Air Canada's entry into BNE had assistance from Tourism bodies at both the Vancouver and Queensland ends, and loads/yields were able to make it a daily 788 prior to COVID lockdowns).
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:52 am

rjbesikof wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IAH-GYE will more than likely happen. It was done on CO not too many moons ago.

DEN-AMS is one I want to see, personally. And I think UA could stand to make SFO/LAX-BNE happen, as well as IAH-CDG come back. The later they can use as "the gateway to the southwest" for the likes of AUS, SAT and outdoorsy areas.


I agree with you on GYE. I am thinking DEN-ZRH could be the next UA long-haul route out of DEN simply because there is feed on both ends (Swiss in Zurich, United in Denver). Brisbane might be a bloodbath, especially if Qantas wants to run what would be on some days 3 flights to Brisbane this coming year. Again, I would expect ZRH to be added before CDG at IAH simply because of the connecting hubs on both ends.

Interesting you mention ZRH. A.net had also mentioned IAH-ZRH before. Houston is also huge in medical and biotech. Granted the European hub for that is GVA, ZRH would be the next best thing for air service for the industry with feed on both ends, it could possibly even edge out CDG for IAH service.

I believe IAH has better chances than DEN for CDG and ZRH, but DEN for sure has a better shot at DUB than Houston does. I live in Denver but I'm an IAH fanboy lol
 
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N292UX
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:05 am

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL ... /PGUM/PHNL
Interesting thing I saw today. UA 200 (773) took off from Guam on Jan. 1 2022, and landed in Honolulu on December 31, 2021.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:34 am

N292UX wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL200/history/20211231/2310Z/PGUM/PHNL
Interesting thing I saw today. UA 200 (773) took off from Guam on Jan. 1 2022, and landed in Honolulu on December 31, 2021.

Come on flight aware, we all know it was really operated by the DeLorean.
 
cnunn
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:56 am

N292UX wrote:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL200/history/20211231/2310Z/PGUM/PHNL
Interesting thing I saw today. UA 200 (773) took off from Guam on Jan. 1 2022, and landed in Honolulu on December 31, 2021.


Might have to put that one on the bucket list. Celebrate NYE in Guam, catch the morning flight over to HNL, then celebrate NYE again in Hawaii. Time zones (especially around the international date line) are wonky.
 
portola2727
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:27 am

Hopefully LAX-FRA/MUC. I've been waiting for this for a while now and am frankly surprised UAL is very reluctant to launch LAX-FRA, considering that it's the only hub without service to FRA. LH's LAX-FRA service is mostly for P2P traffic and I am hoping UA, if it decides to step in, launches flights with a schedule that allows it to connect to LH's Asia services.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:21 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
I'd say SFO-MNL/BKK (yes I went there) would likely happen than SFO/LAX-BNE at this stage. Considering the news articles of UA filing an objection against the proposed PR/AA codeshare on the basis UA couldn't get slots for a 2nd GUM-MNL service, although theoretically UA could use the slots to start MNL-SFO.

Out of MNL or BKK, it's likely the former (SFO-MNL) than BKK as BKK is a thin route approaching ULR status. But both cities have heavier VFR traffic than BNE.

BNE is very likely to dependent on State Government/Tourism body funding as assistance for UA to 'start up' the service.

*Flame away*

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... ac548a3346


Very unlikely you'll see UA or any other US airline for that matter add MNL or BKK nonstop. But let's stick with UA. MNL and BKK are very different markets for sure, but they have one thing in common. They are long stage length and neither are particularly lucrative in the premium cabin. MNL is overwhelmingly VFR. BKK, and Thailand for that matter, are mostly leisure markets for the more adventuresome American traveller.

I actually think BNE is very likely on UA metal, now more than ever, as UA and Virgin Australia are entering into a partnership. Brisbane is Australia's third largest city, UA is the largest US carrier serving Australia, and my guess is UA would fly it from SFO, not LAX.
 
ContinentalEWR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:23 pm

portola2727 wrote:
Hopefully LAX-FRA/MUC. I've been waiting for this for a while now and am frankly surprised UAL is very reluctant to launch LAX-FRA, considering that it's the only hub without service to FRA. LH's LAX-FRA service is mostly for P2P traffic and I am hoping UA, if it decides to step in, launches flights with a schedule that allows it to connect to LH's Asia services.


UA doesn't need to fly LAX-FRA or LAX-MUC and probably won't. They have LH for that. Just because LAX is the only UA hub that doesn't have UA metal flying to FRA/MUC does not mean it will happen. As to connections for LH's Asia service, UA has SFO for that and a big gateway there, but at the moment, and for the foreseeable future, demand and service to Asia will remain very much muted.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:33 pm

ContinentalEWR wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
I'd say SFO-MNL/BKK (yes I went there) would likely happen than SFO/LAX-BNE at this stage. Considering the news articles of UA filing an objection against the proposed PR/AA codeshare on the basis UA couldn't get slots for a 2nd GUM-MNL service, although theoretically UA could use the slots to start MNL-SFO.

Out of MNL or BKK, it's likely the former (SFO-MNL) than BKK as BKK is a thin route approaching ULR status. But both cities have heavier VFR traffic than BNE.

BNE is very likely to dependent on State Government/Tourism body funding as assistance for UA to 'start up' the service.

*Flame away*

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... ac548a3346


Very unlikely you'll see UA or any other US airline for that matter add MNL or BKK nonstop. But let's stick with UA. MNL and BKK are very different markets for sure, but they have one thing in common. They are long stage length and neither are particularly lucrative in the premium cabin. MNL is overwhelmingly VFR. BKK, and Thailand for that matter, are mostly leisure markets for the more adventuresome American traveller.

I actually think BNE is very likely on UA metal, now more than ever, as UA and Virgin Australia are entering into a partnership. Brisbane is Australia's third largest city, UA is the largest US carrier serving Australia, and my guess is UA would fly it from SFO, not LAX.


BNE isn't exactly high yielding like SYD and MEL in the J cabin, due to the smaller high yielding population than SYD and MEL.
BNE yields would be fairly close to MNL and BKK and may not likely be as high yielding despite some may talk BNE up on their International J yields.

IMO, QF may have likely absorbed most of limited high yielding TransPacific J market ex-BNE (possibly including most of VA/DL's former J pax) with VA/DL's exit from BNE-LAX. Because of that, I do agree with you if UA does enter to/from BNE, it'll be from SFO, not LAX (despite the larger O&D market).

I'm still sticking to my opinion that UA to BNE is likely dependent on State Government/Tourism Body funding to help start up, most likely will be announced as 'seasonal' initially in Q4 (NW/Southern Summer) with UA handing a break even/yield figure to the Queensland Government/tourism bodies to ensure the service operates past the 'seasonal end date'. This means full planes but 'junk yields' on BNE-SFO would not guarantee a route continuation past the 'seasonal end date' in an agreement between the Queensland State Government, Tourism Qld and UA.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:02 pm

portola2727 wrote:
Hopefully LAX-FRA/MUC. I've been waiting for this for a while now and am frankly surprised UAL is very reluctant to launch LAX-FRA, considering that it's the only hub without service to FRA. LH's LAX-FRA service is mostly for P2P traffic and I am hoping UA, if it decides to step in, launches flights with a schedule that allows it to connect to LH's Asia services.


Seriously, LAX-Asia via Europe?! Worthless.
 
crownvic
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:15 pm

I am seeing ads pop up here in Orlando for new nonstop service from KMCO to KLAS for the CES show. Do any of our United experts know if this is temporary for the show or will it be permanent service?
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 2:44 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

Seriously, LAX-Asia via Europe?! Worthless.


Central and Western Asia are perfectly viable. East Asia, not so much.
 
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cosyr
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:30 pm

Does anyone have any predictions about how the partnership with Virgin Australia is going to fit in with Air New Zealand, after COVID? Or is that the point, that UA had to form this new partnership, because of the lack of connections through New Zealand right now?
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:18 pm

cosyr wrote:
Does anyone have any predictions about how the partnership with Virgin Australia is going to fit in with Air New Zealand, after COVID? Or is that the point, that UA had to form this new partnership, because of the lack of connections through New Zealand right now?

Well, just for fun, I punched these cities into United.com for travel from Chicago in the middle of July to see what comes back:
  • Brisbane
  • Perth
  • Adelaide
  • Gold Coast
  • Newcastle
  • Canberra
  • Sunshine Coast
  • Geelong
  • Hobart
  • Townsville
  • Cairns
  • Darwin
  • Toowoomba
  • Bendigo
  • Allbury

Every single one of them came back with United transpacific connecting to Qantas intra-Australia itineraries. Not one came back with an Air New Zealand connection over Auckland.

Granted, COVID restrictions might not be providing the most representative Air New Zealand schedule.

But I imagine the Virgin Australia codeshare is more about replacing Qantas and less having anything to do with Air New Zealand.

For instance:
  • United's been interlining with Qantas (and selling Qantas on United.com) as long as I can remember. Those passengers got no MileagePlus earnings and no MileagePlus benefits.
  • If you wanted to fly from Brisbane to Adelaide and earn MileagePlus miles in the past, you had to connect in New Zealand. Now you'll be able to fly nonstop on Virgin Australia.

Why pay a Oneworld airline to give your customers an inferior intra-Austrlia experience when you can have a non-aligned airline do so while at least fully particpating in MileagePlus?
Last edited by adamblang on Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:18 pm

cosyr wrote:
Does anyone have any predictions about how the partnership with Virgin Australia is going to fit in with Air New Zealand, after COVID? Or is that the point, that UA had to form this new partnership, because of the lack of connections through New Zealand right now?


I am guessing it won’t change. UA didn’t have to form this new partnership, who approached who will be interesting to know. But certainly nothing to do with connections to NZ right now. NZ is effectively closed so it doesn’t matter that There are no connections, but NZ have served LAX continuously through the pandemic.
 
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Jetsgo
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 9:45 pm

Is UA still scheduled to relaunch SFO-SIN on 1/5? I saw somewhere it might have been pushed back to 1/19 due to Singapore's pull back on the VTL.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:40 pm

I was looking at the list of terminated regional routes and I had some thoughts and where this may put future connectivity.

1) Small airports within 100 miles of larger airports are up for termination - GRK, CLL, LAN, AZO, CWA, EVV, and RST.
2) Communities that produce very small levels of O&D: PIR, ATY, and TWF.
3) Airports where UA had a very small token presence: MLU and EVV.

Based on that, what regional markets would we find at risk? The ones I think are more stable would be:

1) Markets that have high levels of O&D to the hub: DEN-FAR/FAT, IAH-AMA/XNA, ORD-TYS/HSV, etc.
2) Markets that high good demand and isolated from other major cities: GJT, RDD, RDM, etc.

So has UA finished cutting regional routes?
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:21 am

adamblang wrote:

Why pay a Oneworld airline to give your customers an inferior intra-Austrlia experience when you can have a non-aligned airline do so while at least fully particpating in MileagePlus?


Not sure about that one. QF at least does provide a snack and drink on all flights (included in all fares including the cheapest Y bucket).

Since their emergence from Voluntary Administration (Australian Chapter 11), VA has since repositioned as a mid-tier airline with BoB Y in-cabin service with a Full Service J cabin. VA has also moved away from complimentary checked luggage in all fares by introducing a "Economy Lite" like carry-on fare.

The only inclusion in all VA fares, including the cheapest Y bucket fare, are a complimentary inflight non-alcoholic drink (Water, Tea, Juice, Coffee). All other drinks and meals/snacks are now BoB in Y.
 
joeblow10
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:57 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I was looking at the list of terminated regional routes and I had some thoughts and where this may put future connectivity.

1) Small airports within 100 miles of larger airports are up for termination - GRK, CLL, LAN, AZO, CWA, EVV, and RST.
2) Communities that produce very small levels of O&D: PIR, ATY, and TWF.
3) Airports where UA had a very small token presence: MLU and EVV.

Based on that, what regional markets would we find at risk? The ones I think are more stable would be:

1) Markets that have high levels of O&D to the hub: DEN-FAR/FAT, IAH-AMA/XNA, ORD-TYS/HSV, etc.
2) Markets that high good demand and isolated from other major cities: GJT, RDD, RDM, etc.

So has UA finished cutting regional routes?


At some point this decade I am guessing there will be a revamp of the EAS system, which will help some of the smaller markets survive, even if it’s thru a carrier like Denver Air Connection or Cape Air. It will also probably bring back markets that are extremely isolated but non-EAS back into the fold - EKO is one example

The reality is many very isolated communities will be taken off the map if it isn’t - VEL and PIR are perfect examples. At the same time, I would expect some of the “less necessary” communities to be removed from the list. Expecting someone to drive 1-1.5 hours for commercial air service is one thing, 3+ is another. And we all know congressmen will not be happy to see service slashed to the cities they represent.

I certainly don’t think UA or any airline for that matter is finished cutting routes. If anything, they will slash more and more for use as leverage in any regulation reform they seek
Last edited by joeblow10 on Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:16 am

cosyr wrote:
Does anyone have any predictions about how the partnership with Virgin Australia is going to fit in with Air New Zealand, after COVID? Or is that the point, that UA had to form this new partnership, because of the lack of connections through New Zealand right now?


The VA/NZ relationship (or lack thereof as of current) will likely remain the same as is. Third party joint itineraries between VA/NZ, IIRC are still offered to travel agents, but NZ prioritises QF codeshares on their websites as QF are NZ's primary domestic and FF codeshare partner in Australia and vice-versa for QF in NZ.

Edit: It will be interesting to find out who approached who. Was it Bain directly (owners of VA), VA themselves or UA. All 3 companies would have their reasons for negotiating with each other.

NZ and QF remain competitors in the Trans-Tasman market, and will remain to do so for the foreseeable future.
 
flyfresno
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:20 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I was looking at the list of terminated regional routes and I had some thoughts and where this may put future connectivity.

1) Small airports within 100 miles of larger airports are up for termination - GRK, CLL, LAN, AZO, CWA, EVV, and RST.
2) Communities that produce very small levels of O&D: PIR, ATY, and TWF.
3) Airports where UA had a very small token presence: MLU and EVV.

Based on that, what regional markets would we find at risk? The ones I think are more stable would be:

1) Markets that have high levels of O&D to the hub: DEN-FAR/FAT, IAH-AMA/XNA, ORD-TYS/HSV, etc.
2) Markets that high good demand and isolated from other major cities: GJT, RDD, RDM, etc.

So has UA finished cutting regional routes?


Considering that UA has a mainline flight FAT-DEN for most of the year, I can't see it ever being considered as "at risk"...
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:24 am

flyfresno wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
I was looking at the list of terminated regional routes and I had some thoughts and where this may put future connectivity.

1) Small airports within 100 miles of larger airports are up for termination - GRK, CLL, LAN, AZO, CWA, EVV, and RST.
2) Communities that produce very small levels of O&D: PIR, ATY, and TWF.
3) Airports where UA had a very small token presence: MLU and EVV.

Based on that, what regional markets would we find at risk? The ones I think are more stable would be:

1) Markets that have high levels of O&D to the hub: DEN-FAR/FAT, IAH-AMA/XNA, ORD-TYS/HSV, etc.
2) Markets that high good demand and isolated from other major cities: GJT, RDD, RDM, etc.

So has UA finished cutting regional routes?


Considering that UA has a mainline flight FAT-DEN for most of the year, I can't see it ever being considered as "at risk"...


That was my point though. It obviously isn’t at risk.
 
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adamblang
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:30 am

SCFlyer wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Why pay a Oneworld airline to give your customers an inferior intra-Austrlia experience when you can have a non-aligned airline do so while at least fully particpating in MileagePlus?


Not sure about that one. QF at least does provide a snack and drink on all flights (included in all fares including the cheapest Y bucket).

Since their emergence from Voluntary Administration (Australian Chapter 11), VA has since repositioned as a mid-tier airline with BoB Y in-cabin service with a Full Service J cabin. VA has also moved away from complimentary checked luggage in all fares by introducing a "Economy Lite" like carry-on fare.

The only inclusion in all VA fares, including the cheapest Y bucket fare, are a complimentary inflight non-alcoholic drink (Water, Tea, Juice, Coffee). All other drinks and meals/snacks are now BoB in Y.

Inferior in the sense of MileagePlus earnings and benefits…
 
atrude777
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:39 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I was looking at the list of terminated regional routes and I had some thoughts and where this may put future connectivity.

1) Small airports within 100 miles of larger airports are up for termination - GRK, CLL, LAN, AZO, CWA, EVV, and RST.
2) Communities that produce very small levels of O&D: PIR, ATY, and TWF.


RST already ended back in October, are you thinking perhaps COU(Columbia, Missouri)?

Alex
 
atrude777
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:46 am

joeblow10 wrote:
At some point this decade I am guessing there will be a revamp of the EAS system, which will help some of the smaller markets survive, even if it’s thru a carrier like Denver Air Connection or Cape Air. It will also probably bring back markets that are extremely isolated but non-EAS back into the fold - EKO is one example

The reality is many very isolated communities will be taken off the map if it isn’t - VEL and PIR are perfect examples. At the same time, I would expect some of the “less necessary” communities to be removed from the list. Expecting someone to drive 1-1.5 hours for commercial air service is one thing, 3+ is another. And we all know congressmen will not be happy to see service slashed to the cities they represent.

I certainly don’t think UA or any airline for that matter is finished cutting routes. If anything, they will slash more and more for use as leverage in any regulation reform they seek


I don't disagree there could be a revamp of EAS, but not because these markets are failing for United.

United has not ended ANY EAS route by breaking the contract or pulling out before the contract ended.

In the case of PIR and ATY, SkyWest Airlines lost the contract and DOT did not choose them. Even after battling and filing lawsuits, SkyWest lost and was forced to pull out due to the loss of the contract.

TWF also wasn't EAS for United but was a grant, this would line up with cities like San Angelo, Texas and such.

EKO Airport is served right now by SkyWest as Delta Connection with services to SLC.

Whether SkyWest will continue to bid for EAS routes into 2022 will be the question....

Paducah, Kentucky's (PAH) Bid is up for Summer 2022, so we will see if SkyWest chooses to rebid, they've been there for over 10 years!

Alex
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:30 am

atrude777 wrote:
Paducah, Kentucky's (PAH) Bid is up for Summer 2022, so we will see if SkyWest chooses to rebid, they've been there for over 10 years!

Alex


I dont know this for certain, but I would think ORD-PAH would be a good route for Chicago travelers looking to get to destinations in Southern Illinois. I would think there would be some value to that.
 
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Gillbilly
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:02 pm

Hawaii flights question:

SFO to KOA is currently an even mix of 737s and 753s. Eventually it switches to all 737s.
SFO to LIH is all 737s now. On Feb 11 UA1111 switches to a 752.

Do you think these changes are actually real and going to occur? Planning a trip and I love the 757s but hate the 737s. Thanks.
 
atrude777
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:07 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
Paducah, Kentucky's (PAH) Bid is up for Summer 2022, so we will see if SkyWest chooses to rebid, they've been there for over 10 years!

Alex


I dont know this for certain, but I would think ORD-PAH would be a good route for Chicago travelers looking to get to destinations in Southern Illinois. I would think there would be some value to that.


Same as Cape Girardeau, Missouri (CGI), exactly one hour drive from my hometown in Southern Illinois.

SkyWest bid for Marion, Illinois too (MWA), for direct access to Southern Illinois from Chicago but the locals said No, and voted to keep Cape Air.

Alex
 
kavok
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 2:43 pm

atrude777 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
At some point this decade I am guessing there will be a revamp of the EAS system, which will help some of the smaller markets survive, even if it’s thru a carrier like Denver Air Connection or Cape Air. It will also probably bring back markets that are extremely isolated but non-EAS back into the fold - EKO is one example

The reality is many very isolated communities will be taken off the map if it isn’t - VEL and PIR are perfect examples. At the same time, I would expect some of the “less necessary” communities to be removed from the list. Expecting someone to drive 1-1.5 hours for commercial air service is one thing, 3+ is another. And we all know congressmen will not be happy to see service slashed to the cities they represent.

I certainly don’t think UA or any airline for that matter is finished cutting routes. If anything, they will slash more and more for use as leverage in any regulation reform they seek


I don't disagree there could be a revamp of EAS, but not because these markets are failing for United.

United has not ended ANY EAS route by breaking the contract or pulling out before the contract ended.

In the case of PIR and ATY, SkyWest Airlines lost the contract and DOT did not choose them. Even after battling and filing lawsuits, SkyWest lost and was forced to pull out due to the loss of the contract.

TWF also wasn't EAS for United but was a grant, this would line up with cities like San Angelo, Texas and such.

EKO Airport is served right now by SkyWest as Delta Connection with services to SLC.

Whether SkyWest will continue to bid for EAS routes into 2022 will be the question....

Paducah, Kentucky's (PAH) Bid is up for Summer 2022, so we will see if SkyWest chooses to rebid, they've been there for over 10 years!

Alex


My questions about EAS (longer term) deal with airports/markets that were previously just large enough that they didn’t need EAS… but with the 50 seat RJs disappearing, the airport may no longer remain viable. Markets like Erie PA., Evansville IN., etc. that are struggling to retain service now, and will really struggle going forward as more CR2s are retired across the legacies.

Can the government really justify subsidies for air service to smaller markets like Paducah, but not slightly larger ones like Evansville? To me, that could be the question being asked in a few years if EAS is ever re-evaluated.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1522
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:12 pm

Gillbilly wrote:
Hawaii flights question:

SFO to KOA is currently an even mix of 737s and 753s. Eventually it switches to all 737s.
SFO to LIH is all 737s now. On Feb 11 UA1111 switches to a 752.

Do you think these changes are actually real and going to occur? Planning a trip and I love the 757s but hate the 737s. Thanks.


Depends how far out you are looking. The schedule through March and even April is firming up, assuming COVID doesn’t derail things again.
 
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Gillbilly
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:46 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:37 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
Gillbilly wrote:
Hawaii flights question:

SFO to KOA is currently an even mix of 737s and 753s. Eventually it switches to all 737s.
SFO to LIH is all 737s now. On Feb 11 UA1111 switches to a 752.

Do you think these changes are actually real and going to occur? Planning a trip and I love the 757s but hate the 737s. Thanks.


Depends how far out you are looking. The schedule through March and even April is firming up, assuming COVID doesn’t derail things again.


Thanks, I'm looking at traveling Feb 13 and the 19th or 20th. The 752 to LIH is pretty full already.. So it would be unlikely they would downgauge if they've already sold most of the seats, right?
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6720
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 02, 2022 3:54 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
Big year for long haul intl flights:
-IAD-AMM/BER/HND
-EWR-HND/BGO/PDL/PMI/TFS/NCE
-ORD-MXP/ZRH
-DEN-MUC
-SFO-BLR
-LAX-HND
-BOS-LHR
What I hope to see:
-More intl routes out of DEN with the new gates opening up.
-More India flights (hopefully HYD, MAA).
-GYE service now that Ecuador has an Open Skies with the U.S.


I wouldn’t get too excited about the new long-haul flights yet
 
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intotheair
Posts: 2267
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:25 pm

Great news — the SFO Polaris Lounge has reopened:

https://twitter.com/bythebeach05/status ... 9795836939
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:50 pm

atrude777 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
At some point this decade I am guessing there will be a revamp of the EAS system, which will help some of the smaller markets survive, even if it’s thru a carrier like Denver Air Connection or Cape Air. It will also probably bring back markets that are extremely isolated but non-EAS back into the fold - EKO is one example

The reality is many very isolated communities will be taken off the map if it isn’t - VEL and PIR are perfect examples. At the same time, I would expect some of the “less necessary” communities to be removed from the list. Expecting someone to drive 1-1.5 hours for commercial air service is one thing, 3+ is another. And we all know congressmen will not be happy to see service slashed to the cities they represent.

I certainly don’t think UA or any airline for that matter is finished cutting routes. If anything, they will slash more and more for use as leverage in any regulation reform they seek


I don't disagree there could be a revamp of EAS, but not because these markets are failing for United.

United has not ended ANY EAS route by breaking the contract or pulling out before the contract ended.

In the case of PIR and ATY, SkyWest Airlines lost the contract and DOT did not choose them. Even after battling and filing lawsuits, SkyWest lost and was forced to pull out due to the loss of the contract.

TWF also wasn't EAS for United but was a grant, this would line up with cities like San Angelo, Texas and such.

EKO Airport is served right now by SkyWest as Delta Connection with services to SLC.

Whether SkyWest will continue to bid for EAS routes into 2022 will be the question....

Paducah, Kentucky's (PAH) Bid is up for Summer 2022, so we will see if SkyWest chooses to rebid, they've been there for over 10 years!

Alex


Actually, Skywest was not forced from PIR and ATY. Just the opposite. They stayed even after the new winner (Denver Air Connection) started up both cities. I assume just to lower DAC revenue from the cities and be a thorn in their sides.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4717
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:55 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
At some point this decade I am guessing there will be a revamp of the EAS system, which will help some of the smaller markets survive, even if it’s thru a carrier like Denver Air Connection or Cape Air. It will also probably bring back markets that are extremely isolated but non-EAS back into the fold - EKO is one example

The reality is many very isolated communities will be taken off the map if it isn’t - VEL and PIR are perfect examples. At the same time, I would expect some of the “less necessary” communities to be removed from the list. Expecting someone to drive 1-1.5 hours for commercial air service is one thing, 3+ is another. And we all know congressmen will not be happy to see service slashed to the cities they represent.

I certainly don’t think UA or any airline for that matter is finished cutting routes. If anything, they will slash more and more for use as leverage in any regulation reform they seek


I don't disagree there could be a revamp of EAS, but not because these markets are failing for United.

United has not ended ANY EAS route by breaking the contract or pulling out before the contract ended.

In the case of PIR and ATY, SkyWest Airlines lost the contract and DOT did not choose them. Even after battling and filing lawsuits, SkyWest lost and was forced to pull out due to the loss of the contract.

TWF also wasn't EAS for United but was a grant, this would line up with cities like San Angelo, Texas and such.

EKO Airport is served right now by SkyWest as Delta Connection with services to SLC.

Whether SkyWest will continue to bid for EAS routes into 2022 will be the question....

Paducah, Kentucky's (PAH) Bid is up for Summer 2022, so we will see if SkyWest chooses to rebid, they've been there for over 10 years!

Alex


Actually, Skywest was not forced from PIR and ATY. Just the opposite. They stayed even after the new winner (Denver Air Connection) started up both cities. I assume just to lower DAC revenue from the cities and be a thorn in their sides.


I knew they stayed and assumed that when they lost the lawsuit, that was part of forcing them out.

I'll give you that wasn't worded either.

I'll assume then that they left due to the lack of money, but I just wanted it clear that UA/SkyWest didn't just leave an EAS city, and that they had lost the contract.

Alex
 
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airzim
Posts: 1583
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:58 pm

adamblang wrote:
cosyr wrote:
Does anyone have any predictions about how the partnership with Virgin Australia is going to fit in with Air New Zealand, after COVID? Or is that the point, that UA had to form this new partnership, because of the lack of connections through New Zealand right now?

Well, just for fun, I punched these cities into United.com for travel from Chicago in the middle of July to see what comes back:
  • Brisbane
  • Perth
  • Adelaide
  • Gold Coast
  • Newcastle
  • Canberra
  • Sunshine Coast
  • Geelong
  • Hobart
  • Townsville
  • Cairns
  • Darwin
  • Toowoomba
  • Bendigo
  • Allbury

Every single one of them came back with United transpacific connecting to Qantas intra-Australia itineraries. Not one came back with an Air New Zealand connection over Auckland.

Granted, COVID restrictions might not be providing the most representative Air New Zealand schedule.

But I imagine the Virgin Australia codeshare is more about replacing Qantas and less having anything to do with Air New Zealand.

For instance:
  • United's been interlining with Qantas (and selling Qantas on United.com) as long as I can remember. Those passengers got no MileagePlus earnings and no MileagePlus benefits.
  • If you wanted to fly from Brisbane to Adelaide and earn MileagePlus miles in the past, you had to connect in New Zealand. Now you'll be able to fly nonstop on Virgin Australia.

Why pay a Oneworld airline to give your customers an inferior intra-Austrlia experience when you can have a non-aligned airline do so while at least fully particpating in MileagePlus?


I assume the reason for pushing the traffic to QF is based on the prorate agreements negotiated between UA and QF and the significant additional distances going via AKL vs SYD/MEL on the shorter domestic segment.

UA would rather retain the majority of the ticket value, so by keeping passengers on UA metal as long as possible, they are only throwing peanuts to QF for the interline ticket. Going via AKL adds lots of extra distance to the downline segment, and hence UA gives up more revenue to NZ (since I assume the trans-Tasman is not covered under the JV).

That might change with VA, but given the smaller network size vs QF, I doubt we'll see any changes unless VA agrees to give up valuable inventory to United.
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1673
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:04 pm

airzim wrote:
Going via AKL adds lots of extra distance to the downline segment, and hence UA gives up more revenue to NZ (since I assume the trans-Tasman is not covered under the JV).

This page on airnewzealand.com implies the UA-NZ JV only covers flights within New Zealand and the United States. Mentioned on that same page, I didn't realize Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia also have a partnership.
 
ScorpioMC3
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:52 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:15 pm

UAL 1 SFO-SIN resumes tonight 05JAN. No word on another suspension based on Singapore's freeze of new VTL ticket sales.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:09 pm

ScorpioMC3 wrote:
UAL 1 SFO-SIN resumes tonight 05JAN. No word on another suspension based on Singapore's freeze of new VTL ticket sales.


Just looked at UAL's website and it's still showing as departing tonight, so I'm doubtful that there will be a last minute suspension. If it were going to happen, it probably already would have been cancelled for tonight.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1480
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:40 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
ScorpioMC3 wrote:
UAL 1 SFO-SIN resumes tonight 05JAN. No word on another suspension based on Singapore's freeze of new VTL ticket sales.


Just looked at UAL's website and it's still showing as departing tonight, so I'm doubtful that there will be a last minute suspension. If it were going to happen, it probably already would have been cancelled for tonight.

If anything suspension will come once the current bookings have gone away. Singapore has allowed those with VTL bookings to keep them
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:56 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
IAH-GYE will more than likely happen. It was done on CO not too many moons ago.

DEN-AMS is one I want to see, personally. And I think UA could stand to make SFO/LAX-BNE happen, as well as IAH-CDG come back. The later they can use as "the gateway to the southwest" for the likes of AUS, SAT and outdoorsy areas.


I agree with you on GYE. I am thinking DEN-ZRH could be the next UA long-haul route out of DEN simply because there is feed on both ends (Swiss in Zurich, United in Denver). Brisbane might be a bloodbath, especially if Qantas wants to run what would be on some days 3 flights to Brisbane this coming year. Again, I would expect ZRH to be added before CDG at IAH simply because of the connecting hubs on both ends.

Interesting you mention ZRH. A.net had also mentioned IAH-ZRH before. Houston is also huge in medical and biotech. Granted the European hub for that is GVA, ZRH would be the next best thing for air service for the industry with feed on both ends, it could possibly even edge out CDG for IAH service.

I believe IAH has better chances than DEN for CDG and ZRH, but DEN for sure has a better shot at DUB than Houston does. I live in Denver but I'm an IAH fanboy lol


DEN had ZRH before 2020, which was rumored that LX was going to overtake the route from their stepsister. With Edelweiss reducing their wide body fleet, they won't be back. UA would be solid with a 788 for sure.
 
manny
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:59 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:33 pm

Why does UA always treat DEN like the bastard child of its network. With the kind of traffic that DEN commands there should be a lot more international connections. Would love to see more transatlantic and atleast one nonstop Indian flight from DEN.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:44 pm

manny wrote:
Why does UA always treat DEN like the bastard child of its network. With the kind of traffic that DEN commands there should be a lot more international connections. Would love to see more transatlantic and atleast one nonstop Indian flight from DEN.


Being in the center of the country makes DEN a great domestic hub, but not a great international hub.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 5626
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:58 pm

manny wrote:
Why does UA always treat DEN like the bastard child of its network. With the kind of traffic that DEN commands there should be a lot more international connections. Would love to see more transatlantic and atleast one nonstop Indian flight from DEN.


I'd hardly view DEN as the "bastard child" of the UA network. if anything, DEN has been a focal point of UA's growth, pre-pandemic and over the past 18 months as well. Like 500+ flights a day with a goal of getting to 700.

London Heathrow and Tokyo/Narita are slated to resume in March 2022, Munich begins in April 2022, and Frankfurt is served as well. I can see a few potential seasonal additions in a year or two to perhaps CDG, FCO or MAD, with CDG perhaps being more of a priority with AF entering the market, but unlikely there will be much more long haul intercontinental service from DEN on UA metal at least until business travel demand sees some sustained recovery, which is really not likely to ever return to 2019 levels. I don't see India service from Denver, to be honest. Ditto for more TPAC to Asia.
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