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intotheair
Posts: 2313
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:49 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:18 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Looks like there are 17 routes not operating, that did prior to the pandemic. This must mean close to 30 widebody aircraft (mostly 777-200ER) not being used. United currently has more widebody aircraft in their fleet today than prior to the pandemic (with all 777s not active and more 787s delivered). What are they doing with all the surplus capacity?

Denver – Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles – Tokyo Haneda
Los Angeles – Shanghai Pu Dong
Chicago O’Hare – Beijing Capital
Chicago O’Hare – Shanghai Pu Dong
Honolulu – Tokyo Narita
Newark – Beijing Capital
Newark – Hong Kong
Newark – Shanghai Pu Dong
Newark – Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco – Beijing Capital
San Francisco – Chengdu
San Francisco – Shanghai Pu Dong (Service replaced by 4 weekly 1-stop service via Seoul Incheon)
San Francisco – Hong Kong
San Francisco – Osaka Kansai
Washington Dulles – Beijing Capital
Washington Dulles – Tokyo Haneda


SFO - BNE
DEN - MUC
EWR - JNB
EWR - CPT
IAD - CPT
IAD - AMM
IAD - ACC
IAD - LOS

That’s just off the top of my head.


The international widebodies are also now common sights on the former p.s. routes, which was not the case pre-pandemic.

As for the 17 routes listed above that have yet to restart, a few of them (DEN-NRT, LAX-HND, EWR-HND, SFO-HKG, SFO-KIX) are still slated to resume in January, while many other Asia routes now have a start date in March. I would imagine the ones slated to pick up again in January will actually fly.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220915-uanw22apac
 
Tyroneguy
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:26 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 5:27 am

VC10er wrote:
I was looking on United.com for a multi destination itinerary to Europe from EWR and a couple thoughts popped into my head;

Many of the offered an itinerary went through Lisbon and with connections operated by TAP. I have never seen so many options via TAP, so I wondered if UA & TP are having a love affair?
Also, I was surprised to see a 787-10 from EWR to LIS and I was curious if those flights go out full?
It doesn’t seem that long ago when a 757 was the mainstay of the EWR/LIS route and the jump in capacity to a 787-10 seems very big to me.
(This is good news for me, I love a 787 and I love Lisbon. I’d surely stop there for a couple of days!)



LIS has been seeing widebodies for awhile now with the 767 fleet. The 78J and 773 have been popping up all over Europe in different markets and they're packed to the gills.
 
sfojvjets
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:00 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:12 am

kaitak744 wrote:
Looks like there are 17 routes not operating, that did prior to the pandemic. This must mean close to 30 widebody aircraft (mostly 777-200ER) not being used. United currently has more widebody aircraft in their fleet today than prior to the pandemic (with all 777s not active and more 787s delivered). What are they doing with all the surplus capacity?

Denver – Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles – Tokyo Haneda
Los Angeles – Shanghai Pu Dong
Chicago O’Hare – Beijing Capital
Chicago O’Hare – Shanghai Pu Dong
Honolulu – Tokyo Narita
Newark – Beijing Capital
Newark – Hong Kong
Newark – Shanghai Pu Dong
Newark – Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco – Beijing Capital
San Francisco – Chengdu
San Francisco – Shanghai Pu Dong (Service replaced by 4 weekly 1-stop service via Seoul Incheon)
San Francisco – Hong Kong
San Francisco – Osaka Kansai
Washington Dulles – Beijing Capital
Washington Dulles – Tokyo Haneda

I think SFO-DEL should be included on this list. Obviously service was halted for different reason other than covid but it still represents 2 freed-up planes that are no longer flying all the way to India,

This is probably unlikely but I want to see more Europe and LatAm service to the West Coast on UA. What are the odds of summer seasonal SFO-FCO or winter seasonal SFO-LIM (or BOG)?
 
portola2727
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:12 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:56 am

sfojvjets wrote:
kaitak744 wrote:
Looks like there are 17 routes not operating, that did prior to the pandemic. This must mean close to 30 widebody aircraft (mostly 777-200ER) not being used. United currently has more widebody aircraft in their fleet today than prior to the pandemic (with all 777s not active and more 787s delivered). What are they doing with all the surplus capacity?

Denver – Tokyo Narita
Los Angeles – Tokyo Haneda
Los Angeles – Shanghai Pu Dong
Chicago O’Hare – Beijing Capital
Chicago O’Hare – Shanghai Pu Dong
Honolulu – Tokyo Narita
Newark – Beijing Capital
Newark – Hong Kong
Newark – Shanghai Pu Dong
Newark – Tokyo Haneda
San Francisco – Beijing Capital
San Francisco – Chengdu
San Francisco – Shanghai Pu Dong (Service replaced by 4 weekly 1-stop service via Seoul Incheon)
San Francisco – Hong Kong
San Francisco – Osaka Kansai
Washington Dulles – Beijing Capital
Washington Dulles – Tokyo Haneda

I think SFO-DEL should be included on this list. Obviously service was halted for different reason other than covid but it still represents 2 freed-up planes that are no longer flying all the way to India,

This is probably unlikely but I want to see more Europe and LatAm service to the West Coast on UA. What are the odds of summer seasonal SFO-FCO or winter seasonal SFO-LIM (or BOG)?

I think SFO-FCO will be with ITA mostly due to the connections on the Rome side but it's heavily plausible since UA tried to launch SFO-DUB pre pandemic. SFO-LIM/BOG might not be plausible simply because the LatAm services from CA are mostly centered around LAX than SFO. Maybe if UA goes all in, LAX-LIM/BOG is more plausible than SFO.
 
portola2727
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Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:12 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:57 am

On another note, I want to ask what you guys' think would be UAL's routes out of LAX's T9? What routes do you think UA will fly out of LAX once they get their T9 expansion?
 
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intotheair
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:40 am

I wonder how much IAH-CDG was supported by connections during the CO Skyteam days. I would guess quite a bit. IAH-FRA started up pretty quickly after CO joined Star, and then IAH-CDG was dropped pretty quickly after the merger. IAH-MUC definitely didn't exist pre-Star either.

It seems like for UA's western hubs (IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO), it's pretty easy to support more flights to LHR, FRA, and MUC, but then the bar is much higher for any other European destination. We've been talking quite a bit in the DEN thread about whether UA could support a CDG flight. Honestly, I just don't see it. I don't see it either for IAH. Thankfully, both DEN and IAH have AF these days. Good for the people at IAH that you also have IAH-AMS on UA.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 9:50 am

I have a couple of questions about UA to London.
If United wanted to launch any new service to LHR from any of their US hubs, would LHR be able to accommodate?
Second, why is Gatwick not served? I ask only because UA has flights to a second airport in other cities and perhaps a different airport would be more convenient for some? (I tried GoogleMap” and failed, to see if I could find where the 2 airports are positioned relative to each other and London. I have not flown into Gatwick since 1979 and do not recall anything about its location)
I have often thought on a dreary taxi ride from LHR if flying into Gatwick would be closer to my hotel in SoHo.
 
GSP psgr
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:14 am

intotheair wrote:
I wonder how much IAH-CDG was supported by connections during the CO Skyteam days. I would guess quite a bit. IAH-FRA started up pretty quickly after CO joined Star, and then IAH-CDG was dropped pretty quickly after the merger. IAH-MUC definitely didn't exist pre-Star either.

It seems like for UA's western hubs (IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO), it's pretty easy to support more flights to LHR, FRA, and MUC, but then the bar is much higher for any other European destination. We've been talking quite a bit in the DEN thread about whether UA could support a CDG flight. Honestly, I just don't see it. I don't see it either for IAH. Thankfully, both DEN and IAH have AF these days. Good for the people at IAH that you also have IAH-AMS on UA.


Honestly, I think if IAH were to pick up another European route, it'd be more likely to be MAD or BCN to take advantage of traffic flows to Mexico and Central America. Even then, I don't think that's too terribly likely on a year round basis, but maybe as a summer seasonal to start with and see what's there. I would think filling a plane at peak summer to Spain from IAH would not be overly taxing. Winter would be another deal entirely,
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 1:36 pm

intotheair wrote:
I wonder how much IAH-CDG was supported by connections during the CO Skyteam days. I would guess quite a bit. IAH-FRA started up pretty quickly after CO joined Star, and then IAH-CDG was dropped pretty quickly after the merger. IAH-MUC definitely didn't exist pre-Star either.

It seems like for UA's western hubs (IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO), it's pretty easy to support more flights to LHR, FRA, and MUC, but then the bar is much higher for any other European destination. We've been talking quite a bit in the DEN thread about whether UA could support a CDG flight. Honestly, I just don't see it. I don't see it either for IAH. Thankfully, both DEN and IAH have AF these days. Good for the people at IAH that you also have IAH-AMS on UA.


IAH-AMS is a not only a huge O&D market, but the fares are high. IAH is one of the biggest O&D cities for AMS in US. UA isnt simply being nice to us by having that route here. Its the type of market airlines dream of having in their back pocket. Its why there is more capacity to AMS on UA from IAH than any other hub with only EWR having the same capacity.

As for CDG, AF has served IAH on a year round basis since the 70s. UA cancelled IAH-CDG when the city of Houston allowed WN to operate internationally out of HOU. The market is large and there would be no problem for UA to fill the plane. As I mentioned previously, a large part of the IAH-CDG premium traffic comes from Sclumberger and AF has that contract which means UA couldnt tap into it. But the market is still large.

IAH-AMS/CDG are both MUCH larger local markets than IAH-Germany. Whether were talking IAH, DEN, SFO, ORD, etc., FRA and MUC are connection points much more than O&D points.

As for DEN, its a much smaller international market than IAH but it does have better geography and more connectivity to markets in the Midwest, Plains, Mountains, and West. Which is why DEN's international flights tend to rely on UA's JV hubs where connectivity can be maximized on both ends.
 
parrotta
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Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:51 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Sun Oct 09, 2022 2:42 pm

N292UX wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
B6SpiritofEWR wrote:
Rumor is MAN is returning next summer, I think with the 764. GLA isn’t really in the cards right now to my knowledge.


I also wonder if there's any interest on UA's part in returning to BHX? That would probably be a summer or two after MAN.

If you look at what UA did this summer in terms of transatlantic routes, which focused on better connectivity away from Star's Core hubs in Central Europe, my 5 guesses would be: MAN, AGP, PMO/CTA, LYS, and BUD.

100% agree on EWR-MAN/BUD being added. Pretty sure UA filed something a few months ago requesting permission to operate EWR-BUD with the 763 in 2023. MAN is already being rumored. PMO was going to be launched in summer 2020 before the pandemic hit so that one also seems extremely likely.

AGP certainly seems possible considering UA's success at PMI this summer, I know DL used to operate 752s/763s on that route so UA could easily launch it with a 752.

LYS/CTA are maybes in my opinion. LYS seems like an ideal A321XLR route a few years from now and if the XLR has the legs for EWR/CTA I could see that one too. A summer EWR-CTA with a 763 isn't entirely out of the question either.

I'll add a few other guesses/predictions on my end:
EWR-BUD/PMO/MAN/VIE
IAD-WAW/MXP
DEN-AMS


On various hungarian aviation websites they say UA already requested the slots for BUD.
 
UALifer
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:35 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:32 am

Looks like United added 3 additional weekly frequencies SFO-SYD for the winter starting 12/14. Now 10x weekly with two flights southbound on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays. All flights on the 77W. Anyone know if United has ever run this much capacity on this route before?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9357
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 10, 2022 7:15 am

UALifer wrote:
Looks like United added 3 additional weekly frequencies SFO-SYD for the winter starting 12/14. Now 10x weekly with two flights southbound on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays. All flights on the 77W. Anyone know if United has ever run this much capacity on this route before?



They ran at least 10 weekly 744s years ago, not sure if it was ever more than that? LAX-SYD was the same and operated at least 10 weekly 744s over the NW for a number of years.
 
hohd
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:52 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I wonder how much IAH-CDG was supported by connections during the CO Skyteam days. I would guess quite a bit. IAH-FRA started up pretty quickly after CO joined Star, and then IAH-CDG was dropped pretty quickly after the merger. IAH-MUC definitely didn't exist pre-Star either.

It seems like for UA's western hubs (IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO), it's pretty easy to support more flights to LHR, FRA, and MUC, but then the bar is much higher for any other European destination. We've been talking quite a bit in the DEN thread about whether UA could support a CDG flight. Honestly, I just don't see it. I don't see it either for IAH. Thankfully, both DEN and IAH have AF these days. Good for the people at IAH that you also have IAH-AMS on UA.


IAH-AMS is a not only a huge O&D market, but the fares are high. IAH is one of the biggest O&D cities for AMS in US. UA isnt simply being nice to us by having that route here. Its the type of market airlines dream of having in their back pocket. Its why there is more capacity to AMS on UA from IAH than any other hub with only EWR having the same capacity.

As for CDG, AF has served IAH on a year round basis since the 70s. UA cancelled IAH-CDG when the city of Houston allowed WN to operate internationally out of HOU. The market is large and there would be no problem for UA to fill the plane. As I mentioned previously, a large part of the IAH-CDG premium traffic comes from Sclumberger and AF has that contract which means UA couldnt tap into it. But the market is still large.

IAH-AMS/CDG are both MUCH larger local markets than IAH-Germany. Whether were talking IAH, DEN, SFO, ORD, etc., FRA and MUC are connection points much more than O&D points.

As for DEN, its a much smaller international market than IAH but it does have better geography and more connectivity to markets in the Midwest, Plains, Mountains, and West. Which is why DEN's international flights tend to rely on UA's JV hubs where connectivity can be maximized on both ends.


I agree. UA can fill IAH-CDG fairly easily, the market is there, Houston area is very diverse and has a large international VFR and business presence. May be the yields are not that strong or they want the connection traffic to go through ORD or EWR.

Also I dont see any AF flights on the DEN market. Has it resumed ?
 
Tyroneguy
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:26 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:00 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I wonder how much IAH-CDG was supported by connections during the CO Skyteam days. I would guess quite a bit. IAH-FRA started up pretty quickly after CO joined Star, and then IAH-CDG was dropped pretty quickly after the merger. IAH-MUC definitely didn't exist pre-Star either.

It seems like for UA's western hubs (IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO), it's pretty easy to support more flights to LHR, FRA, and MUC, but then the bar is much higher for any other European destination. We've been talking quite a bit in the DEN thread about whether UA could support a CDG flight. Honestly, I just don't see it. I don't see it either for IAH. Thankfully, both DEN and IAH have AF these days. Good for the people at IAH that you also have IAH-AMS on UA.





IAH-AMS is a not only a huge O&D market, but the fares are high. IAH is one of the biggest O&D cities for AMS in US. UA isnt simply being nice to us by having that route here. Its the type of market airlines dream of having in their back pocket. Its why there is more capacity to AMS on UA from IAH than any other hub with only EWR having the same capacity.

As for CDG, AF has served IAH on a year round basis since the 70s. UA cancelled IAH-CDG when the city of Houston allowed WN to operate internationally out of HOU. The market is large and there would be no problem for UA to fill the plane. As I mentioned previously, a large part of the IAH-CDG premium traffic comes from Sclumberger and AF has that contract which means UA couldnt tap into it. But the market is still large.

IAH-AMS/CDG are both MUCH larger local markets than IAH-Germany. Whether were talking IAH, DEN, SFO, ORD, etc., FRA and MUC are connection points much more than O&D points.

As for DEN, its a much smaller international market than IAH but it does have better geography and more connectivity to markets in the Midwest, Plains, Mountains, and West. Which is why DEN's international flights tend to rely on UA's JV hubs where connectivity can be maximized on both ends.


When UA discontinued IAH-CDG, they indicated that the route had been a money loser more years than it made money. It doesn't really matter that AMS is a bigger O/D market than FRA and MUC. The economy cabin on the two German hubs has majority onward connections on *A partners. That's where the money is made and THAT'S why UA is heavy on FRA and MUC flights.
Pre-covid, the challenge was where to put New 787s, stated by one of the VPs. There were so many choices from different hubs. IAH-CDG just isn't a priority when there are dozens of flights to make more money on. Let's face it, AF/KLM/DL have CDG on lock...the same way that LH/UA have FRA/MUC mostly to themselves.
 
FLYKTPA
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:10 pm

hohd wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I wonder how much IAH-CDG was supported by connections during the CO Skyteam days. I would guess quite a bit. IAH-FRA started up pretty quickly after CO joined Star, and then IAH-CDG was dropped pretty quickly after the merger. IAH-MUC definitely didn't exist pre-Star either.

It seems like for UA's western hubs (IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO), it's pretty easy to support more flights to LHR, FRA, and MUC, but then the bar is much higher for any other European destination. We've been talking quite a bit in the DEN thread about whether UA could support a CDG flight. Honestly, I just don't see it. I don't see it either for IAH. Thankfully, both DEN and IAH have AF these days. Good for the people at IAH that you also have IAH-AMS on UA.


IAH-AMS is a not only a huge O&D market, but the fares are high. IAH is one of the biggest O&D cities for AMS in US. UA isnt simply being nice to us by having that route here. Its the type of market airlines dream of having in their back pocket. Its why there is more capacity to AMS on UA from IAH than any other hub with only EWR having the same capacity.

As for CDG, AF has served IAH on a year round basis since the 70s. UA cancelled IAH-CDG when the city of Houston allowed WN to operate internationally out of HOU. The market is large and there would be no problem for UA to fill the plane. As I mentioned previously, a large part of the IAH-CDG premium traffic comes from Sclumberger and AF has that contract which means UA couldnt tap into it. But the market is still large.

IAH-AMS/CDG are both MUCH larger local markets than IAH-Germany. Whether were talking IAH, DEN, SFO, ORD, etc., FRA and MUC are connection points much more than O&D points.

As for DEN, its a much smaller international market than IAH but it does have better geography and more connectivity to markets in the Midwest, Plains, Mountains, and West. Which is why DEN's international flights tend to rely on UA's JV hubs where connectivity can be maximized on both ends.


I agree. UA can fill IAH-CDG fairly easily, the market is there, Houston area is very diverse and has a large international VFR and business presence. May be the yields are not that strong or they want the connection traffic to go through ORD or EWR.

Also I dont see any AF flights on the DEN market. Has it resumed ?



AF is summer seasonal to DEN, ends October 16th.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 10, 2022 3:24 pm

Tyroneguy wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
I wonder how much IAH-CDG was supported by connections during the CO Skyteam days. I would guess quite a bit. IAH-FRA started up pretty quickly after CO joined Star, and then IAH-CDG was dropped pretty quickly after the merger. IAH-MUC definitely didn't exist pre-Star either.

It seems like for UA's western hubs (IAH, DEN, LAX, SFO), it's pretty easy to support more flights to LHR, FRA, and MUC, but then the bar is much higher for any other European destination. We've been talking quite a bit in the DEN thread about whether UA could support a CDG flight. Honestly, I just don't see it. I don't see it either for IAH. Thankfully, both DEN and IAH have AF these days. Good for the people at IAH that you also have IAH-AMS on UA.





IAH-AMS is a not only a huge O&D market, but the fares are high. IAH is one of the biggest O&D cities for AMS in US. UA isnt simply being nice to us by having that route here. Its the type of market airlines dream of having in their back pocket. Its why there is more capacity to AMS on UA from IAH than any other hub with only EWR having the same capacity.

As for CDG, AF has served IAH on a year round basis since the 70s. UA cancelled IAH-CDG when the city of Houston allowed WN to operate internationally out of HOU. The market is large and there would be no problem for UA to fill the plane. As I mentioned previously, a large part of the IAH-CDG premium traffic comes from Sclumberger and AF has that contract which means UA couldnt tap into it. But the market is still large.

IAH-AMS/CDG are both MUCH larger local markets than IAH-Germany. Whether were talking IAH, DEN, SFO, ORD, etc., FRA and MUC are connection points much more than O&D points.

As for DEN, its a much smaller international market than IAH but it does have better geography and more connectivity to markets in the Midwest, Plains, Mountains, and West. Which is why DEN's international flights tend to rely on UA's JV hubs where connectivity can be maximized on both ends.


When UA discontinued IAH-CDG, they indicated that the route had been a money loser more years than it made money. It doesn't really matter that AMS is a bigger O/D market than FRA and MUC. The economy cabin on the two German hubs has majority onward connections on *A partners. That's where the money is made and THAT'S why UA is heavy on FRA and MUC flights.
Pre-covid, the challenge was where to put New 787s, stated by one of the VPs. There were so many choices from different hubs. IAH-CDG just isn't a priority when there are dozens of flights to make more money on. Let's face it, AF/KLM/DL have CDG on lock...the same way that LH/UA have FRA/MUC mostly to themselves.


I was trying to paint an overall picture. That is why I brought AMS up. IAH is an anomaly where AMS is concerned. That market is so big and the fares are so high. Any airline who wants to hub IAH has to serve AMS. Its not simply a leisure route like almost every other city that serves AMS from the US.

Im not saying UA needs to drop everything and re-instate IAH-CDG, but dynamics change. Markets that were once unprofitable can become ripe for it. I did say, from a network perspective, IAH-CDG is one of the biggest holes in UA's transatlantic network that doesnt involve EWR. From a market size perspective that is true. I would expect that if IAH-CDG did ever return for it to be seasonal. That said, if UA does add another IAH Europe route, I would actually bet that it would not be CDG. It would probably be ZRH or BRU because of what you are talking about: connections at both ends. Hell, from an O&D perspective, LOS is actually the largest market over the Atlantic not served by anyone but that will probably be served by ET not UA.
 
OlympicATH
Posts: 326
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:55 pm

nascar1 wrote:
I could see also ORD-BCN.


Also ORD-ATH potentially
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:28 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Tyroneguy wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:




IAH-AMS is a not only a huge O&D market, but the fares are high. IAH is one of the biggest O&D cities for AMS in US. UA isnt simply being nice to us by having that route here. Its the type of market airlines dream of having in their back pocket. Its why there is more capacity to AMS on UA from IAH than any other hub with only EWR having the same capacity.

As for CDG, AF has served IAH on a year round basis since the 70s. UA cancelled IAH-CDG when the city of Houston allowed WN to operate internationally out of HOU. The market is large and there would be no problem for UA to fill the plane. As I mentioned previously, a large part of the IAH-CDG premium traffic comes from Sclumberger and AF has that contract which means UA couldnt tap into it. But the market is still large.

IAH-AMS/CDG are both MUCH larger local markets than IAH-Germany. Whether were talking IAH, DEN, SFO, ORD, etc., FRA and MUC are connection points much more than O&D points.

As for DEN, its a much smaller international market than IAH but it does have better geography and more connectivity to markets in the Midwest, Plains, Mountains, and West. Which is why DEN's international flights tend to rely on UA's JV hubs where connectivity can be maximized on both ends.


When UA discontinued IAH-CDG, they indicated that the route had been a money loser more years than it made money. It doesn't really matter that AMS is a bigger O/D market than FRA and MUC. The economy cabin on the two German hubs has majority onward connections on *A partners. That's where the money is made and THAT'S why UA is heavy on FRA and MUC flights.
Pre-covid, the challenge was where to put New 787s, stated by one of the VPs. There were so many choices from different hubs. IAH-CDG just isn't a priority when there are dozens of flights to make more money on. Let's face it, AF/KLM/DL have CDG on lock...the same way that LH/UA have FRA/MUC mostly to themselves.


I was trying to paint an overall picture. That is why I brought AMS up. IAH is an anomaly where AMS is concerned. That market is so big and the fares are so high. Any airline who wants to hub IAH has to serve AMS. Its not simply a leisure route like almost every other city that serves AMS from the US.

Im not saying UA needs to drop everything and re-instate IAH-CDG, but dynamics change. Markets that were once unprofitable can become ripe for it. I did say, from a network perspective, IAH-CDG is one of the biggest holes in UA's transatlantic network that doesnt involve EWR. From a market size perspective that is true. I would expect that if IAH-CDG did ever return for it to be seasonal. That said, if UA does add another IAH Europe route, I would actually bet that it would not be CDG. It would probably be ZRH or BRU because of what you are talking about: connections at both ends. Hell, from an O&D perspective, LOS is actually the largest market over the Atlantic not served by anyone but that will probably be served by ET not UA.


I can see BRU, you get that Africa connection opportunities again (depending on schedule), ZRH gives you a bunch of connection opportunities as well, but I do think IAH-CDG can come back on a seasonal basis, especially given how much of a change travel has become regarding leisure. I'd imagine any new Europe route will be seasonal anyways and CDG is going to have that largest draw.
 
Golfmikey
Posts: 125
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:50 pm

New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:01 pm

Golfmikey wrote:
New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon

My guesses are:
IAH-TLV/BRU
DEN-AMS
ORD-BCN
ORD-ATH
Last edited by AVENSAB727 on Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
aviator2000
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:04 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon

My guesses are:
IAH-TLV/BRU
DEN-AMS
EWR-BCN
ORD-ATH

EWR-BCN? This route is not new.

Golfmikey wrote:
New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon

Is the picture public?
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:47 pm

aviator2000 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Golfmikey wrote:
New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon

My guesses are:
IAH-TLV/BRU
DEN-AMS
EWR-BCN
ORD-ATH

EWR-BCN? This route is not new.

Golfmikey wrote:
New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon

Is the picture public?


I would say public, haven't checked, but its on Flying Together and:

BCN is shown
looks like PRG
BigBen is shown, so that is interesting.
Looks like FLR

Working on the others.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:53 pm

CALMSP wrote:
aviator2000 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
My guesses are:
IAH-TLV/BRU
DEN-AMS
EWR-BCN
ORD-ATH

EWR-BCN? This route is not new.

Golfmikey wrote:
New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon

Is the picture public?


I would say public, haven't checked, but its on Flying Together and:

BCN is shown
looks like PRG
BigBen is shown, so that is interesting.
Looks like FLR

Working on the others.


BCN will be from ORD.

PRG and FLR from EWR.

Could Big Ben represent a return to MAN instead of LHR itself?
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:55 pm

I see Paris as well. So that will be interesting, will it be DEN or will it be IAH?

DXB is shown again.......hmmmmmm.
Last edited by CALMSP on Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
aviator2000
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:56 pm

CALMSP wrote:
aviator2000 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
My guesses are:
IAH-TLV/BRU
DEN-AMS
EWR-BCN
ORD-ATH

EWR-BCN? This route is not new.

Golfmikey wrote:
New routes tomorrow at 7am…looks like 9 new destinations based on the picture I saw…I’m sure the same picture will be on social media soon

Is the picture public?


I would say public, haven't checked, but its on Flying Together and:

BCN is shown
looks like PRG
BigBen is shown, so that is interesting.
Looks like FLR

Working on the others.

Would you mind forwarding the picture here?
 
B6SpiritofEWR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:08 pm

Is it 9 new destinations or routes?

Based on rumors I think it will definitely include EWR-FLR/BUD/MAD.

I hope they add more capacity on routes like EWR-BCN/MAD/AMS etc.
 
MXP92
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:11 pm

FLR isn't able to accomodate WB aircraft, neither larger NBs like A320 or A321.
I think it could be PSA instead. Delta used to fly to PSA years ago.
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:12 pm

B6SpiritofEWR wrote:
Is it 9 new destinations or routes?

Based on rumors I think it will definitely include EWR-FLR/BUD/MAD.

I hope they add more capacity on routes like EWR-BCN/MAD/AMS etc.


I can't see BUD in the pic, but believe the beach location may be Malaga.

as for BigBen, I wonder if its a return to LGW. In a separate pic there is a castle, which would indicate something in the UK.

(sorry, can't get pic to upload)
Last edited by CALMSP on Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
atrude777
Posts: 4738
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:12 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
aviator2000 wrote:
EWR-BCN? This route is not new.


Is the picture public?


I would say public, haven't checked, but its on Flying Together and:

BCN is shown
looks like PRG
BigBen is shown, so that is interesting.
Looks like FLR

Working on the others.


BCN will be from ORD.

PRG and FLR from EWR.

Could Big Ben represent a return to MAN instead of LHR itself?


I saw Big Ben too, and wondered if it was LGW.

Delta after all also announced a return to LGW.

Alex
 
FlyHossD
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:14 pm

CALMSP wrote:
I see Paris as well. So that will be interesting, will it be DEN or will it be IAH?

DXB is shown again.......hmmmmmm.


Pilot staffing is being increased for DEN 787, so maybe DEN-CDG?
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:15 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
I see Paris as well. So that will be interesting, will it be DEN or will it be IAH?

DXB is shown again.......hmmmmmm.


Pilot staffing is being increased for DEN 787, so maybe DEN-CDG?


DEN-CDG has significantly less demand than IAH-CDG, but I guess it depends on strategy.
 
BB78710
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:22 pm

CALMSP wrote:
I see Paris as well. So that will be interesting, will it be DEN or will it be IAH?

DXB is shown again.......hmmmmmm.


I wouldn't read to much into DXB being shown again even with their partnership with EK I don't see UA adding another nonstop to DXB until EWR-DXB launches and proves successful.

Having said that I can a DEN-CDG happening or even the relaunch of IAH-CDG.

With Big Ben I'm now wondering if UA has managed to land an additional slot at LHR, or if they will follow B6 and DL by launching service to LGW. If they do launch LGW service it most certainly would be from EWR or maybe IAD.

UA has been hinting at expanding service to BCN for a few years now that rumor dates back to pre-pandemic days. I think the timing is finally right for UA to launch seasonal service between ORD-BCN. PRG is for sure coming back United only operated the flight for one season before the pandemic hit. United has also found a lot of success in Italy (they seem to be doing more in Italy than Delta) so I can see them taking a shot at EWR-FLR
 
CDGtoSYD
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:31 pm

CDG could simply be the the resumption of the second daily EWR flight, which is already bookable. If not ORD-BCN, could UA add frequencies to EWR-BCN?
 
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N292UX
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:33 pm

My guesses are:
EWR-MAN/BUD/PMO
IAD-VCE/PRG
ORD-BCN
IAH-CDG
DEN-AMS

EWR-DXB has already been announced so don't think it's another DXB route. Same with EWR-PRG. I do see IAD-PRG being a possibility though.
Last edited by N292UX on Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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N292UX
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:36 pm

FLR definitely isn't one of them considering it can't accomodate widebodies. I assume there will be some new Italy routes but I'd bet more on either IAD-MXP/VCE. EWR-PMO seems possible considering UA was intending to launch that route in the summer of 2020.
 
B6SpiritofEWR
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:36 pm

N292UX wrote:
My guesses are:
EWR-MAN/BUD/PRG
IAD-VCE
ORD-BCN
IAH-CDG
DEN-AMS

EWR-DXB has already been announced so don't think it's another DXB route. If it is, I assume IAD-DXB


PRG was already put in the schedule as well.
 
rjbesikof
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:38 pm

My guesses
ORD-GVA
DEN-ZRH
EWR-PMO
SFO-PPT goes daily
 
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N292UX
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:42 pm

B6SpiritofEWR wrote:
N292UX wrote:
My guesses are:
EWR-MAN/BUD/PRG
IAD-VCE
ORD-BCN
IAH-CDG
DEN-AMS

EWR-DXB has already been announced so don't think it's another DXB route. If it is, I assume IAD-DXB


PRG was already put in the schedule as well.

Beat me to that by a split second. Wouldn't be surprised to see another PRG route added besides EWR though
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:46 pm

N292UX wrote:
FLR definitely isn't one of them considering it can't accomodate widebodies. I assume there will be some new Italy routes but I'd bet more on either IAD-MXP/VCE. EWR-PMO seems possible considering UA was intending to launch that route in the summer of 2020.


Right, meant BLQ.
 
aviator2000
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:48 pm

ORD-BCN would make sense after norwegian left AA solely operating the route
 
joeljack
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:51 pm

How about OMA-EWR so I can actually use all these EWR-Europe flights?!?
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:53 pm

AF makes good money on IAH due to their oil contracts on front end tix, so UA would need to get some of those; though BRU-IAH has been on both airport's radar for years, especially for Africa connections. Not sure if UA can get that from CDG without Star flights. IAH generates very high fare front end traffic to locales like Malabo, Lagos, and Luanda for example.

Can someone post a link to the pic?
 
nascar1
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Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:32 pm

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:55 pm

Apparently UA has confirmed ORD-BCN according this account.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/ ... fgX3Tj-N8g
 
aviator2000
Posts: 308
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 am

Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:03 pm

nascar1 wrote:
Apparently UA has confirmed ORD-BCN according this account.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/ ... fgX3Tj-N8g

Starts 25th march 2023.
 
LOT767SP-LPA
Posts: 144
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:05 pm

I see potential on IAD-WAW, lot of US military person and keep my fingers crossed
 
BB78710
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:16 pm

nascar1 wrote:
Apparently UA has confirmed ORD-BCN according this account.

https://twitter.com/AeroinfoBCN/status/ ... fgX3Tj-N8g


At least we know one destination.

Let's see how the rest of this pans out.
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:19 pm

on flyer T someone said the Italian pic is FCO, if so, that would be DEN-FCO.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:23 pm

CALMSP wrote:
on flyer T someone said the Italian pic is FCO, if so, that would be DEN-FCO.


Did they specifically reference DEN?
 
CALMSP
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:26 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
CALMSP wrote:
on flyer T someone said the Italian pic is FCO, if so, that would be DEN-FCO.


Did they specifically reference DEN?


no, but FCO is already being flown from ORD/EWR/IAD, DEN reference is my take if it is FCO.
 
VC10er
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Re: United Airlines Network Thread - 2022

Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:30 pm

Currently, does anyone know how many United flights cross the Atlantic from the USA to ALL of Europe? I recently read an article that said, quote: “United has more flights to Europe than DL & AA combined” - I am assuming that adds up all UA flights, not just EWR.
Thanks

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