Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
ContinentalEWR wrote:UA pulling out of JFK again, in October. Not surprisingly.
hbernal1 wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:UA pulling out of JFK again, in October. Not surprisingly.
There was really no way UA could compete at JFK with token LAX/SFO service. Way better for NYC ops to focus on dominating EWR than to continue eating the costs of operating at a high CPE airport for just 4 flights a day.
jbs2886 wrote:hbernal1 wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:UA pulling out of JFK again, in October. Not surprisingly.
There was really no way UA could compete at JFK with token LAX/SFO service. Way better for NYC ops to focus on dominating EWR than to continue eating the costs of operating at a high CPE airport for just 4 flights a day.
Well its because they are losing their slots, not because of token service.
hbernal1 wrote:jbs2886 wrote:hbernal1 wrote:There was really no way UA could compete at JFK with token LAX/SFO service. Way better for NYC ops to focus on dominating EWR than to continue eating the costs of operating at a high CPE airport for just 4 flights a day.
Well its because they are losing their slots, not because of token service.
UA's internal memo cites a "too-small-to-be-competitive" schedule and admitted they can't get the slots to expand -- so that's why UA's pulling out.
https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 66/photo/1
hbernal1 wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:UA pulling out of JFK again, in October. Not surprisingly.
There was really no way UA could compete at JFK with token LAX/SFO service. Way better for NYC ops to focus on dominating EWR than to continue eating the costs of operating at a high CPE airport for just 4 flights a day.
ContinentalEWR wrote:hbernal1 wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:UA pulling out of JFK again, in October. Not surprisingly.
There was really no way UA could compete at JFK with token LAX/SFO service. Way better for NYC ops to focus on dominating EWR than to continue eating the costs of operating at a high CPE airport for just 4 flights a day.
The schedule was a token one, yes, but the reason is they are losing the slots.
RyanairGuru wrote:hbernal1 wrote:jbs2886 wrote:
Well its because they are losing their slots, not because of token service.
UA's internal memo cites a "too-small-to-be-competitive" schedule and admitted they can't get the slots to expand -- so that's why UA's pulling out.
https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 66/photo/1
But they are loosing the slots they already have. They were temporary slots and they haven’t been able to secure permanent slots. THAT is why they are pulling out.
This might be an exercise in semantics though. They probably could get some permanent slots from somewhere, but 2 slots per day with a 22:30 arrival or something like that. Without a larger slot portfolio it isn’t worth it.
MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
BoeingGuy wrote:MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
Which routes of those are dogs?
MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
intotheair wrote:Just looking at that list, I’m going to go ahead and say that most, if not all of them are routes that overfly other hubs and are mostly flown by E175s. Probably another example of the regional staffing shortage.
ADent wrote:And remember when we say United can’t get any JFK slots, they hold 50 slots in their name. 3rd largest.
But apparently leased them out on long term lease to Delta, so they don’t have any to use.
cosyr wrote:ADent wrote:And remember when we say United can’t get any JFK slots, they hold 50 slots in their name. 3rd largest.
But apparently leased them out on long term lease to Delta, so they don’t have any to use.
Does anyone know how long the lease terms were on those Slots? UA got screwed on that deal, because they got slots at EWR in exchange for them, only for Slots to be removed at EWR right after. I'm sure DL would pay through the nose to renew the leases on those slots when they come up, but could someday provide UA it's door back into JFK at that point.
hbernal1 wrote:ContinentalEWR wrote:hbernal1 wrote:There was really no way UA could compete at JFK with token LAX/SFO service. Way better for NYC ops to focus on dominating EWR than to continue eating the costs of operating at a high CPE airport for just 4 flights a day.
The schedule was a token one, yes, but the reason is they are losing the slots.
On that front, I'll concede I wasn't up to date on whether UA's slots were permanent/temporary. But that shouldn't overshadow that UA very publicly threatened it'd pull out if it wasn't able to expand beyond its token schedule. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 022-09-07/
And the memo that went out today mostly talks about returning only if UA is able to operate a much more robust schedule. I don't blame them either; a couple flights a day to two markets where AA/DL/B6 could eat their lunch isn't worth the time, energy, or effort of getting into a big, long public battle for permanent slots with the FAA right now.RyanairGuru wrote:hbernal1 wrote:UA's internal memo cites a "too-small-to-be-competitive" schedule and admitted they can't get the slots to expand -- so that's why UA's pulling out.
https://twitter.com/davidshepardson/sta ... 66/photo/1
But they are loosing the slots they already have. They were temporary slots and they haven’t been able to secure permanent slots. THAT is why they are pulling out.
This might be an exercise in semantics though. They probably could get some permanent slots from somewhere, but 2 slots per day with a 22:30 arrival or something like that. Without a larger slot portfolio it isn’t worth it.
That was my bigger point - UA, even if were able to keep its current schedule on permanent slots, would still have to deal with (a) keeping a station open at a high-cost airport like JFK for just 4 flights a day which would obviously be very unprofitable and (b) remaining at a massive disadvantage to DL/AA/B6 on the markets it can serve.
intotheair wrote:Just looking at that list, I’m going to go ahead and say that most, if not all of them are routes that overfly other hubs and are mostly flown by E175s. Probably another example of the regional staffing shortage.
Velocirapture wrote:MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
STOP the presses! Stop the presses! Oh wait...intotheair wrote:Just looking at that list, I’m going to go ahead and say that most, if not all of them are routes that overfly other hubs and are mostly flown by E175s. Probably another example of the regional staffing shortage.
I believe all of those are E-175 routes. How many UAL-owned E-175s has Mesa parked due to lack of pilots?
BML87 wrote:Velocirapture wrote:MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
STOP the presses! Stop the presses! Oh wait...intotheair wrote:Just looking at that list, I’m going to go ahead and say that most, if not all of them are routes that overfly other hubs and are mostly flown by E175s. Probably another example of the regional staffing shortage.
I believe all of those are E-175 routes. How many UAL-owned E-175s has Mesa parked due to lack of pilots?
IAH-YEG was mainline.
Prost wrote:I wonder if the perimeter rule was eliminated at LGA if slots at JFK would open up for UA?
STT757 wrote:Prost wrote:I wonder if the perimeter rule was eliminated at LGA if slots at JFK would open up for UA?
I don't think United would have any interest in serving Kennedy if that were to be the case.
hbernal1 wrote:On that front, I'll concede I wasn't up to date on whether UA's slots were permanent/temporary. But that shouldn't overshadow that UA very publicly threatened it'd pull out if it wasn't able to expand beyond its token schedule. https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 022-09-07/
And the memo that went out today mostly talks about returning only if UA is able to operate a much more robust schedule. I don't blame them either; a couple flights a day to two markets where AA/DL/B6 could eat their lunch isn't worth the time, energy, or effort of getting into a big, long public battle for permanent slots with the FAA right now.
That was my bigger point - UA, even if were able to keep its current schedule on permanent slots, would still have to deal with (a) keeping a station open at a high-cost airport like JFK for just 4 flights a day which would obviously be very unprofitable and (b) remaining at a massive disadvantage to DL/AA/B6 on the markets it can serve.
MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
luckyone wrote:SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
LAXintl wrote:luckyone wrote:SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
Keep in mind, prepandemic that something like 50% of SFO hub was connection flow to/from international services. Pacific flying is still far from being fully restored.
Add that to the fact that only two weeks ago Bay Area was called out as one of the most laggard markets in the US for business traffic returning. Between high adoption of work from home, and tech industry tightening their belts, the flying that can be profitably supported by UA at SFO obviously is still narrow. Imo should not be surprised some of these low-frequency one-off flights get suspended.
LAXintl wrote:luckyone wrote:SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
Keep in mind, prepandemic that something like 50% of SFO hub was connection flow to/from international services. Pacific flying is still far from being fully restored.
Add that to the fact that only two weeks ago Bay Area was called out as one of the most laggard markets in the US for business traffic returning. Between high adoption of work from home, and tech industry tightening their belts, the flying that can be profitably supported by UA at SFO obviously is still narrow. Imo should not be surprised some of these low-frequency one-off flights get suspended.
LAXintl wrote:luckyone wrote:SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
Keep in mind, prepandemic that something like 50% of SFO hub was connection flow to/from international services. Pacific flying is still far from being fully restored.
Add that to the fact that only two weeks ago Bay Area was called out as one of the most laggard markets in the US for business traffic returning. Between high adoption of work from home, and tech industry tightening their belts, the flying that can be profitably supported by UA at SFO obviously is still narrow. Imo should not be surprised some of these low-frequency one-off flights get suspended.
ericm2031 wrote:I wonder if routes like SFO-OMA/CMH/MCI will stick around.
Midwestindy wrote:1) 50% of the SFO hub wasn't connecting flow from int'l, UA at SFO wasn't even technically 40% connecting (domestic + int') prepandemic
Velocirapture wrote:MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
STOP the presses! Stop the presses! Oh wait...intotheair wrote:Just looking at that list, I’m going to go ahead and say that most, if not all of them are routes that overfly other hubs and are mostly flown by E175s. Probably another example of the regional staffing shortage.
I believe all of those are E-175 routes. How many UAL-owned E-175s has Mesa parked due to lack of pilots?
jplatts wrote:Intel, who is headquartered in Santa Clara, CA, is building semiconductor manufacturing plants in the Columbus, OH area, and demand for SFO-CMH nonstop service will likely be stronger once the Intel semiconductor manufacturing plants in Ohio are up and running.
UA SFO-CMH nonstop service is likely to stick around due to the presence that Intel will have in the Columbus, OH area.
intotheair wrote:I pretty much agree with this, but I don't think this explains everything. Take a look at DTW and the other options. DL is flying this 4x daily, all on 739s. One of Scott Kirby's biggest complaints when first getting to UA was how uncompetitive UA had become flying to competitors' hubs, which are all major cities. Maybe this route ultimately isn't that important and that UA has bigger fish to fry, but it's hard not to look at this cut and think this is another classic case of UA burying its head in the sand when it comes to competition. What's UA's 'natural share' on SFO-DTW? I don't think it's 0%.
ContinentalEWR wrote:UA made a strategic blunder when it exited JFK the first time. This all happened though against the backdrop of a company struggling to integrate into one, several years after the merger of UA and CO was announced. UA's product in the transcon market at the time of the first JFK exit wasn't amazing and pretty much featured the CO BusinessFirst product. The Red Carpet turned United Club at JFK had not been upgraded in years. It was spacious, but very dated. DL, B6, and AA were making significant changes to their schedules as well as to their soft product offering. UA's token presence at JFK until 2015 was seen as too small by its then c-suite, despite having 6 x daily to LAX and 7 x to SFO, which is a robust and competitive schedule for a transcontinental offering.
Unless it can find many more slots to make a schedule there meaningful to LAX/SFO, and find a way to operate a lounge, all very challenging, given the terminal situation and construction, it seems it will be a long time again before UA comes back to JFK, if ever.
At its peak, in 2001, UA had LHR, HKG (briefly), NRT, EZE, GRU, SEA, LAX, SFO, IAD and at other times, weekly to SJU, CCS, and ORD. It was never a big player at JFK, but it had some marquee routes.
LAXintl wrote:Midwestindy wrote:1) 50% of the SFO hub wasn't connecting flow from int'l, UA at SFO wasn't even technically 40% connecting (domestic + int') prepandemic
I am relaying what UA management has stated a few times at townhalls regarding SFO.
You can probably find the exact quotes in previous years network threads where I posted summaries.
LAXintl wrote:For example in recent UA employee news about growth in the SFO schedule it was mentioned 1 in 2 SFO-Pacific pax were tranfering from somewhere else. So in otherwords local O&D component is more like only 50%
luckyone wrote:MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
VC10er wrote:luckyone wrote:MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
I for one am very happy to go to EWR for my transcontinental flights, especially with United’s great new Club. I live on West 10th Street in Manhattan and I can sail to EWR in 20/25 minutes on a good day.
JFK traffic is more unpredictable even in off hours, but it is “JFK” Many foreigners don’t understand that EWR is a NYC airport (even the similarity in names “New York”/ “Newark” can be confusing to someone unfamiliar with the NY metro area. So, I do agree that UA in the future should have about as robust a network from JFK that it had at its peak. They lost just about every passenger on Long Island (and LI has a huge wealthy population)
Also, the GRU and EZE flights had tags onto GIG and Montevideo (MVD?) and I was always surprised to see the 767 about 1/3 full from the hop over from GRU/EZE. I wish I could blink like Jeannie and get them the gates and club.
I hated the traffic but I did love those times flying out of JFK. I remember when new 747-400’s were delivered and them sparkling at the gate. One Red Carpet employee let me onto the apron and walk under a new 747. Fabulous!
VC10er wrote:luckyone wrote:MarcoPoloWorld wrote:While you're all preoccupied with the JFK cut, UA is quietly making some additional, major cuts behind your back. As per Cirium, they are cutting the following routes indefinitely:
IAH - YEG, LAX-COS, LAX-MSN, LAX-EUG, LAX-MFR, EWR-XNA, ORD-EUG, ORD-SBA, SFO-MSN, SFO-DTW, SFO-STL, SFO- OKC.
Courtesy: thepointsguy.com
A couple of these routes are dogs, but some have strategic value and seem like just not a good idea to cut ... like Saint Louis, Oklahoma City... Even Madison and Fayetteville.
SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
I for one am very happy to go to EWR for my transcontinental flights, especially with United’s great new Club. I live on West 10th Street in Manhattan and I can sail to EWR in 20/25 minutes on a good day.
JFK traffic is more unpredictable even in off hours, but it is “JFK” Many foreigners don’t understand that EWR is a NYC airport (even the similarity in names “New York”/ “Newark” can be confusing to someone unfamiliar with the NY metro area. So, I do agree that UA in the future should have about as robust a network from JFK that it had at its peak. They lost just about every passenger on Long Island (and LI has a huge wealthy population)
Also, the GRU and EZE flights had tags onto GIG and Montevideo (MVD?) and I was always surprised to see the 767 about 1/3 full from the hop over from GRU/EZE. I wish I could blink like Jeannie and get them the gates and club.
I hated the traffic but I did love those times flying out of JFK. I remember when new 747-400’s were delivered and them sparkling at the gate. One Red Carpet employee let me onto the apron and walk under a new 747. Fabulous!
VC10er wrote:When an airline like United adds 5 to 10 new nonstop destinations to secondary cities that were connections, do they (LH, LX TP) balk that they lost X amount of transferring passengers?
VC10er wrote:How did Airbus add so much additional range to the A321XLR? Or was it additional fuel tanks or was it engine tech and weight removal?
Tyroneguy wrote:VC10er wrote:luckyone wrote:SFO-DTW, STL, and to some degree OKC stand out to me as particular head scratchers. These are major cities -- yes some smaller than other, but they aren't secondary markets with another major airport close by-- losing hub routes.
I for one am very happy to go to EWR for my transcontinental flights, especially with United’s great new Club. I live on West 10th Street in Manhattan and I can sail to EWR in 20/25 minutes on a good day.
JFK traffic is more unpredictable even in off hours, but it is “JFK” Many foreigners don’t understand that EWR is a NYC airport (even the similarity in names “New York”/ “Newark” can be confusing to someone unfamiliar with the NY metro area. So, I do agree that UA in the future should have about as robust a network from JFK that it had at its peak. They lost just about every passenger on Long Island (and LI has a huge wealthy population)
Also, the GRU and EZE flights had tags onto GIG and Montevideo (MVD?) and I was always surprised to see the 767 about 1/3 full from the hop over from GRU/EZE. I wish I could blink like Jeannie and get them the gates and club.
I hated the traffic but I did love those times flying out of JFK. I remember when new 747-400’s were delivered and them sparkling at the gate. One Red Carpet employee let me onto the apron and walk under a new 747. Fabulous!
I think you're under-estimating 'foreigners' a bit. United's flights are full of foreigners that managed to work out Newark's proximity to NYC.
VC10er wrote:Tyroneguy wrote:VC10er wrote:
I for one am very happy to go to EWR for my transcontinental flights, especially with United’s great new Club. I live on West 10th Street in Manhattan and I can sail to EWR in 20/25 minutes on a good day.
JFK traffic is more unpredictable even in off hours, but it is “JFK” Many foreigners don’t understand that EWR is a NYC airport (even the similarity in names “New York”/ “Newark” can be confusing to someone unfamiliar with the NY metro area. So, I do agree that UA in the future should have about as robust a network from JFK that it had at its peak. They lost just about every passenger on Long Island (and LI has a huge wealthy population)
Also, the GRU and EZE flights had tags onto GIG and Montevideo (MVD?) and I was always surprised to see the 767 about 1/3 full from the hop over from GRU/EZE. I wish I could blink like Jeannie and get them the gates and club.
I hated the traffic but I did love those times flying out of JFK. I remember when new 747-400’s were delivered and them sparkling at the gate. One Red Carpet employee let me onto the apron and walk under a new 747. Fabulous!
I think you're under-estimating 'foreigners' a bit. United's flights are full of foreigners that managed to work out Newark's proximity to NYC.
I certainly didn’t say “all”. Obviously MANY millions of foreigners do understand that EWR is a very major NYC area airport!
But I have known MANY people over the years from Europe, Asia and South America ask me about EWR and it’s proximity to NYC. “Some people” outside of the NYC metro area do not fully grasp the geography, and that’s entirely understandable. Some were concerned it was too far from Manhattan. I had to soothe their concerns.
I have no real idea of Heneda’s proximity to downtown Tokyo vs Narita…it could confuse me a bit more if Heneda sounded a lot like Tokyo to my ear.
luckyone wrote:I've no doubt that there are individuals who have a terrible grasp of geography and are incapable of looking at Google Maps. At the same time, Ryanair made an entire business model NOT flying to the big airports. Azul built their business model being based at an airport 100km from downtown Sao Paulo, Cincinnati's airport is in Kentucky ...enough people eventually figure this out, and I feel like any concern about proximity is transient and exaggerated.
jplatts wrote:luckyone wrote:I've no doubt that there are individuals who have a terrible grasp of geography and are incapable of looking at Google Maps. At the same time, Ryanair made an entire business model NOT flying to the big airports. Azul built their business model being based at an airport 100km from downtown Sao Paulo, Cincinnati's airport is in Kentucky ...enough people eventually figure this out, and I feel like any concern about proximity is transient and exaggerated.
CVG is closer to Downtown Cincinnati than ORD is to the Chicago Loop, DEN is to Downtown Denver, IAH is to Downton Houston, MCI is to Downtown Kansas City, or LAX is to Downtown Los Angeles.
ORD being located in the Chicago city limits,
VC10er wrote:Tyroneguy wrote:VC10er wrote:
I for one am very happy to go to EWR for my transcontinental flights, especially with United’s great new Club. I live on West 10th Street in Manhattan and I can sail to EWR in 20/25 minutes on a good day.
JFK traffic is more unpredictable even in off hours, but it is “JFK” Many foreigners don’t understand that EWR is a NYC airport (even the similarity in names “New York”/ “Newark” can be confusing to someone unfamiliar with the NY metro area. So, I do agree that UA in the future should have about as robust a network from JFK that it had at its peak. They lost just about every passenger on Long Island (and LI has a huge wealthy population)
Also, the GRU and EZE flights had tags onto GIG and Montevideo (MVD?) and I was always surprised to see the 767 about 1/3 full from the hop over from GRU/EZE. I wish I could blink like Jeannie and get them the gates and club.
I hated the traffic but I did love those times flying out of JFK. I remember when new 747-400’s were delivered and them sparkling at the gate. One Red Carpet employee let me onto the apron and walk under a new 747. Fabulous!
I think you're under-estimating 'foreigners' a bit. United's flights are full of foreigners that managed to work out Newark's proximity to NYC.
I certainly didn’t say “all”. Obviously MANY millions of foreigners do understand that EWR is a very major NYC area airport!
But I have known MANY people over the years from Europe, Asia and South America ask me about EWR and it’s proximity to NYC. “Some people” outside of the NYC metro area do not fully grasp the geography, and that’s entirely understandable. Some were concerned it was too far from Manhattan. I had to soothe their concerns.
I have no real idea of Heneda’s proximity to downtown Tokyo vs Narita…it could confuse me a bit more if Heneda sounded a lot like Tokyo to my ear.
B6SpiritofEWR wrote:Rumor is MAN is returning next summer, I think with the 764. GLA isn’t really in the cards right now to my knowledge.