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Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:49 am

Welcome to the Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread 2022. Please continue to post your news and your discussion here.

Link to previous thread:

Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2021
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:04 pm

New Year, new topics. Time for some 2022 guesses and predictions. I guess I will go first.

Infrastructure:
- T1 buildout completion to activate A1-4
- T2 plans set for increased FIS
- New hangars start construction

Service
- New long haul announced associated with Star Alliance
- CDG and LHR actually returns
- Delta up to 90 flights/day
- WN/AC stagnant
- G4 pulls out and focuses solely on GSO
- NK and F9 grows by ~1 new destination
- AS adds either PDX or SAN
- AA grows by adding frequency + ~ 1 new destination
- Potential new entrants maybe associated with Delta or perhaps a new regional carrier
- Icelandair successful but maintains announced service

Other
- Land deal concludes and part of Umstead park area is mined
- Clear option comes to RDU
- Delta looks to expand club again
- Chase announces new Club for Chase members
- Centurion lounge ghosts the airport

Thoughts?
 
jbwhite99
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:35 pm

I'd love to see all of these predictions come true. I hope Delta can up flights, but I don't see them getting to 90. One prediction that wasn't on the list - has Landguth made any announcements on the new runway? That is probably the biggest animal hanging over the airport right now.
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:38 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
New Year, new topics. Time for some 2022 guesses and predictions. I guess I will go first.

Infrastructure:
- T1 buildout completion to activate A1-4
- T2 plans set for increased FIS
- New hangars start construction

Service
- New long haul announced associated with Star Alliance
- CDG and LHR actually returns
- Delta up to 90 flights/day
- WN/AC stagnant
- G4 pulls out and focuses solely on GSO
- NK and F9 grows by ~1 new destination
- AS adds either PDX or SAN
- AA grows by adding frequency + ~ 1 new destination
- Potential new entrants maybe associated with Delta or perhaps a new regional carrier
- Icelandair successful but maintains announced service

Other
- Land deal concludes and part of Umstead park area is mined
- Clear option comes to RDU
- Delta looks to expand club again
- Chase announces new Club for Chase members
- Centurion lounge ghosts the airport

Thoughts?


A lot of this I can see, others I can’t see. A1-A4 are almost open, but they need to add counter space in the terminal for airlines to move over. FIS will need to be expanded soon. G4 barely exists in the airport as is, and those TATL seem to be coming back now that the airport has recovered internationally by 75% Spirit and Frontier both added a destination last year, fits for this year too. Alaska said in an article how important RDU is for them and now with the AA partnership, I can imagine they’ll expand here. AA said they want another airport to have an expansion like AUS and it’s likely either us or BNA. Iceland already seems like it’s going to be successful but the airline has a strict fleet and likely won’t be able to extend the route on short notice. Not sure if DL will expand their club, not much room and they are pulling out a little. Chase has little presence here so wouldn’t make much sense but with American Airlines being big at RDU, a centurion lounge very much could show up. I saved this one for last, the star alliance long-haul part. This, probably will happen at least soon if not this year. RDU had nearly secured flights to AMS and FRA prior to Covid and with the airports current international recovery, they might be back on track by Q3 like estimated meaning those same airlines could be interested. Lufthansa already serves AUS (similar market) and will soon serve STL. This shows we aren’t too small to be in their system and they only operate flights to NC from their Munich base. With the incentives, I can imagine an announcement would come before October as that is the end of the time period to get this incentive I believe. United just built opened club at RDU in recent years and it was rumored to be for a new long-haul star alliance route.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:42 am

Yeah.. seems RDU peers are on a roll and RDU is falling behind. Didn’t realize it was so business heavy for international flights to keep getting pushed back. But surprised EYW isn’t an option when even AVL got it. I’m like.. dang!
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:30 am

ERJ170 wrote:
Yeah.. seems RDU peers are on a roll and RDU is falling behind. Didn’t realize it was so business heavy for international flights to keep getting pushed back. But surprised EYW isn’t an option when even AVL got it. I’m like.. dang!


AVL got it for the sole reason that they are an Allegiant base. And it seems RDU is more-so trying to resume routes that were cut due to Covid as only 38/57 still fly right now
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:39 am

Resuming routes is up to the airlines. But new routes is planning and marketing. A lot of sweat and data. But still hard to imagine AVL getting key west before RDU.

But would be nice if some DL partners step up and open some routes. Weekly flights would be nice at a minimum. But alas..

What Would be nice is id there was commuter rail to the airport that connects to downtown or Cary.. so that one can take a metro ride to Raleigh, Cary, Durham, Chapel Hill, Apex… DCA is just so convenient and it does not affect parking in the least.::
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:39 am

Resuming routes is up to the airlines. But new routes is planning and marketing. A lot of sweat and data. But still hard to imagine AVL getting key west before RDU.

But would be nice if some DL partners step up and open some routes. Weekly flights would be nice at a minimum. But alas..

What Would be nice is id there was commuter rail to the airport that connects to downtown or Cary.. so that one can take a metro ride to Raleigh, Cary, Durham, Chapel Hill, Apex… DCA is just so convenient and it does not affect parking in the least.::
 
Rafale9312
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:05 am

I imagine growth will continue to be conservative in all regards. I wish the B6 experiment worked out, but alas, it did not plus they have bigger things to worry about. Although the Omnicron variant might put a small damper on growth again, most of the predictions in this thread don't seem unreasonable.
Scoring FI was a nice surprise and hopefully we'll have more TATL announcements as Covid recovery continues.

ERJ170 wrote:

What Would be nice is id there was commuter rail to the airport that connects to downtown or Cary.. so that one can take a metro ride to Raleigh, Cary, Durham, Chapel Hill, Apex… DCA is just so convenient and it does not affect parking in the least.::


In 10 years, assuming it gets approved and construction is on time, there will be commuter rail with a stop in nearby Morrisville with bus shuttles cconnecting RDU. It is economically unfeasible to build a rail connection straight to the terminals and although a people mover system would be nice, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 4:13 am

Any other predictions? Would love to hear what others think…
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:56 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
Any other predictions? Would love to hear what others think…

I think RDU will more or less just try to get back the routes they had pre lockdown
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:02 am

ERJ170 wrote:
Resuming routes is up to the airlines. But new routes is planning and marketing. A lot of sweat and data. But still hard to imagine AVL getting key west before RDU.

But would be nice if some DL partners step up and open some routes. Weekly flights would be nice at a minimum. But alas..


AVL has quite a few routes to Florida markets that RDU doesn't have. It's because of G4's large presence in AVL and the connections between Western North Carolina and the Sunshine State.

As for DL partners at RDU, I'd think KLM to AMS makes the most sense at some point, or perhaps WestJet. I wouldn't hold my breath for Aeromexico or any other DL partner.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:24 am

I get that everyone essentially wants their hometown airport to have everything in terms of routes and airport amenities, but some of the predictions on this topic are extremely unrealistic, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

While exponentially growing the past decades, the Triangle area is still a tertiary market (whether those in Raleigh like it or not). Just because the Triangle has been growing really doesn't automatically point to the need for any flights to new markets. It takes decades upon decades of consistent, diverse economic development to produce the demand necessary for new flights. For example, look at how long it took the region to get a nonstop flight to the Bay Area (2012), despite the Triangle having strong links to the Bay Area for decades preceding. UA really actually only launched the flight when they began their big Eastward expansion ex SFO in the early 2010s, so in a way the flight was more about the SFO hub than RDU.

For starters, AS likely will not be starting PDX/SAN. The PDEW for both routes are likely too low for AS to consider service. The PDEW for RDU-SAN, for example was just 95.

Since the pandemic, RDU has lost service on WN (SJC, MSY, HOU, MCI, CUN), DL (CVG, BWI, CLE, CMH, IND, JAX, BNA, PIT, CUN), and AS (SFO). Some of those flights, like AS/SFO and DL/CVG are never coming back, while others (such as the DL flights to outstations) are not coming back until business travel returns, if ever. With the general up-gauging in the industry going on today, it's also likely that the regional jets that operated several of those DL routes were needed for other profitable flying, so it's quite possible that some of these DL flights had an expiration date anyways...pandemic or no pandemic.

I am confused what is posited by "DL partners step[ing] up". Which ones? KE? AM? KQ? Again, Raleigh at present does not have the population or economic base to merit large-scale international service. Aeromexico doesn't even fly to Boston or Washington (both of which have much, much larger traffic levels to MEX than RDU). I suppose a WS Q400 might make sense, but suggesting anything else from WS is asinine (like YYC). WS doesn't even serve WAS-YYC, for example. I could potentially see a KL flight (maybe thrice weekly) but I struggle to see what benefit that would provide to the RDU market that the CDG flight does not, and frankly I can't see both AMS and CDG existing concurrently.

I think it's quite telling that DL is essentially not flying RDU-CDG for the majority of the busy Summer season (as of right now it resumes as a thrice-weekly service on 3 August).

I'm not sure why RDU would gain a Centurion Lounge. Amex hasn't ventured off into serving outstations yet, and there are still several US3 hub cities that lack CLs. I can, however, see RDU gaining an Escape/Plaza Premium type lounge that would accept Priority Pass.

I have nothing against the region...I'm sure it's a fine place to live and I have family at NCSU. The reality of the situation is that region essentially is only home to 2 million people, and while economically strong, isn't necessarily wealthy. The Triangle isn't even in the top 30 US metro areas by GDP.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:36 pm

USAirALB wrote:
For starters, AS likely will not be starting PDX/SAN. The PDEW for both routes are likely too low for AS to consider service. The PDEW for RDU-SAN, for example was just 95.

When RDU-SAN was a route (2019), it actually brought in 170 people each way per day on average.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:37 pm

One thing to add, Avelo has apparently reached out to RDU regarding pricing but has not commented on if the airline has entered more serious talks. Breeze also interested in flying to RDU
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:07 am

You know.. if there was one thing I could change at RDU, it’s the lounge placement. Instead of having them on the interior wall of Terminal 2.. I would have placed them where they would have a runway view.. with room to grow. Right now they are okay but don’t get as much natural sunlight as other lounges I have been in. And the best ones, IMO, are the ones that have windows to the runway, as well as glass into the terminal.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:27 am

USAirALB wrote:
I get that everyone essentially wants their hometown airport to have everything in terms of routes and airport amenities, but some of the predictions on this topic are extremely unrealistic, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

While exponentially growing the past decades, the Triangle area is still a tertiary market (whether those in Raleigh like it or not). Just because the Triangle has been growing really doesn't automatically point to the need for any flights to new markets. It takes decades upon decades of consistent, diverse economic development to produce the demand necessary for new flights. For example, look at how long it took the region to get a nonstop flight to the Bay Area (2012), despite the Triangle having strong links to the Bay Area for decades preceding. UA really actually only launched the flight when they began their big Eastward expansion ex SFO in the early 2010s, so in a way the flight was more about the SFO hub than RDU.

For starters, AS likely will not be starting PDX/SAN. The PDEW for both routes are likely too low for AS to consider service. The PDEW for RDU-SAN, for example was just 95.

Since the pandemic, RDU has lost service on WN (SJC, MSY, HOU, MCI, CUN), DL (CVG, BWI, CLE, CMH, IND, JAX, BNA, PIT, CUN), and AS (SFO). Some of those flights, like AS/SFO and DL/CVG are never coming back, while others (such as the DL flights to outstations) are not coming back until business travel returns, if ever. With the general up-gauging in the industry going on today, it's also likely that the regional jets that operated several of those DL routes were needed for other profitable flying, so it's quite possible that some of these DL flights had an expiration date anyways...pandemic or no pandemic.

I am confused what is posited by "DL partners step[ing] up". Which ones? KE? AM? KQ? Again, Raleigh at present does not have the population or economic base to merit large-scale international service. Aeromexico doesn't even fly to Boston or Washington (both of which have much, much larger traffic levels to MEX than RDU). I suppose a WS Q400 might make sense, but suggesting anything else from WS is asinine (like YYC). WS doesn't even serve WAS-YYC, for example. I could potentially see a KL flight (maybe thrice weekly) but I struggle to see what benefit that would provide to the RDU market that the CDG flight does not, and frankly I can't see both AMS and CDG existing concurrently.

I think it's quite telling that DL is essentially not flying RDU-CDG for the majority of the busy Summer season (as of right now it resumes as a thrice-weekly service on 3 August).

I'm not sure why RDU would gain a Centurion Lounge. Amex hasn't ventured off into serving outstations yet, and there are still several US3 hub cities that lack CLs. I can, however, see RDU gaining an Escape/Plaza Premium type lounge that would accept Priority Pass.

I have nothing against the region...I'm sure it's a fine place to live and I have family at NCSU. The reality of the situation is that region essentially is only home to 2 million people, and while economically strong, isn't necessarily wealthy. The Triangle isn't even in the top 30 US metro areas by GDP.


I'm assuming you are (or were with) US Air in Albany? I went to RPI, and remember how nice the new USAir Terminal was in Albany. For that matter, it has been renovated quite a bit last time I flew in in 2003.

In terms of the Triangle, it is much bigger than you realize. Raleigh is one of the 45 largest cities in the US, Durham is in the 80's and climbing, and Cary is up there as well. BUT, there is a lot of eastern NC that is not served by airports, or only with flights to Atlanta/Charlotte. There is a lot of service that Greensboro doesn't have (although I think that is changing) - and given a choice of paying a higher fare in Charlotte (and dealing with traffic) or driving to Raleigh, they'll fly here. My brother runs one of these small regional airports, and his competition is people driving 3 hours to save a connection and a few bucks.

In order to get more service, we need to show more demand. One thing is that with Cisco and (eventually) Apple down the street from each other, we will see SJC coming, I hope. But airlines need to guarantee seats.

However, the biggest need pressing this airport is a new runway. I'm expecting it means more planes flying over my house, but we do need this. I thought we had until like 2025 or so to get the replacement going for 5L23R.
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:59 pm

jbwhite99 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I get that everyone essentially wants their hometown airport to have everything in terms of routes and airport amenities, but some of the predictions on this topic are extremely unrealistic, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

While exponentially growing the past decades, the Triangle area is still a tertiary market (whether those in Raleigh like it or not). Just because the Triangle has been growing really doesn't automatically point to the need for any flights to new markets. It takes decades upon decades of consistent, diverse economic development to produce the demand necessary for new flights. For example, look at how long it took the region to get a nonstop flight to the Bay Area (2012), despite the Triangle having strong links to the Bay Area for decades preceding. UA really actually only launched the flight when they began their big Eastward expansion ex SFO in the early 2010s, so in a way the flight was more about the SFO hub than RDU.

For starters, AS likely will not be starting PDX/SAN. The PDEW for both routes are likely too low for AS to consider service. The PDEW for RDU-SAN, for example was just 95.

Since the pandemic, RDU has lost service on WN (SJC, MSY, HOU, MCI, CUN), DL (CVG, BWI, CLE, CMH, IND, JAX, BNA, PIT, CUN), and AS (SFO). Some of those flights, like AS/SFO and DL/CVG are never coming back, while others (such as the DL flights to outstations) are not coming back until business travel returns, if ever. With the general up-gauging in the industry going on today, it's also likely that the regional jets that operated several of those DL routes were needed for other profitable flying, so it's quite possible that some of these DL flights had an expiration date anyways...pandemic or no pandemic.

I am confused what is posited by "DL partners step[ing] up". Which ones? KE? AM? KQ? Again, Raleigh at present does not have the population or economic base to merit large-scale international service. Aeromexico doesn't even fly to Boston or Washington (both of which have much, much larger traffic levels to MEX than RDU). I suppose a WS Q400 might make sense, but suggesting anything else from WS is asinine (like YYC). WS doesn't even serve WAS-YYC, for example. I could potentially see a KL flight (maybe thrice weekly) but I struggle to see what benefit that would provide to the RDU market that the CDG flight does not, and frankly I can't see both AMS and CDG existing concurrently.

I think it's quite telling that DL is essentially not flying RDU-CDG for the majority of the busy Summer season (as of right now it resumes as a thrice-weekly service on 3 August).

I'm not sure why RDU would gain a Centurion Lounge. Amex hasn't ventured off into serving outstations yet, and there are still several US3 hub cities that lack CLs. I can, however, see RDU gaining an Escape/Plaza Premium type lounge that would accept Priority Pass.

I have nothing against the region...I'm sure it's a fine place to live and I have family at NCSU. The reality of the situation is that region essentially is only home to 2 million people, and while economically strong, isn't necessarily wealthy. The Triangle isn't even in the top 30 US metro areas by GDP.


I'm assuming you are (or were with) US Air in Albany? I went to RPI, and remember how nice the new USAir Terminal was in Albany. For that matter, it has been renovated quite a bit last time I flew in in 2003.

In terms of the Triangle, it is much bigger than you realize. Raleigh is one of the 45 largest cities in the US, Durham is in the 80's and climbing, and Cary is up there as well. BUT, there is a lot of eastern NC that is not served by airports, or only with flights to Atlanta/Charlotte. There is a lot of service that Greensboro doesn't have (although I think that is changing) - and given a choice of paying a higher fare in Charlotte (and dealing with traffic) or driving to Raleigh, they'll fly here. My brother runs one of these small regional airports, and his competition is people driving 3 hours to save a connection and a few bucks.

In order to get more service, we need to show more demand. One thing is that with Cisco and (eventually) Apple down the street from each other, we will see SJC coming, I hope. But airlines need to guarantee seats.

However, the biggest need pressing this airport is a new runway. I'm expecting it means more planes flying over my house, but we do need this. I thought we had until like 2025 or so to get the replacement going for 5L23R.


The runway is currently in an environmental study stage and is on track for a 2025 opening date
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:54 am

RDU’s an… interesting airport to say the least so I ask this. With a handful of airlines establishing a large presence in the airport (AA,DL, F9, WN), and if these (and more) continue to grow to the point there’s no gate space, what’s the plan next? They cannot expand terminal 2 until 2028 and terminal 1 expansion is limited. They have proposed an expansion at terminal 1 that would add 12 additional gates, but what if it’s even beyond that? Say in 5 years, Delta and American have networks of 50 destinations each (unrealistic) and both want to keep growing, but no gate space left, do they switch to ground boarding options? Or would they add a 3rd terminal/satellite concourse like some Vision 2040 plans called for?
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:23 am

In new news, Delta has pushed back RDU-PHL resumption to the 2nd half of the years so that’s… unsurprising.

Otherwise, no other new news from what I can tell.

Carry on…
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:15 pm

It appears the runway contracts are being awarded for the replacement runway for 5L 23R. This is the project that will eventually allow for Terminal expansion of T2 at RDU.

https://www.aviationpros.com/aoa/runway ... nt-program

Balfour Beatty has been awarded a contract to deliver the Raleigh-Durham Airport Authority’s (RDUAA) Runway 5L/23R Replacement Program. Vital to the future growth and expansion of Raleigh-Durham International Airport (RDU), the project involves building a new primary runway and transforming the existing runway into a taxiway.
 
Runway765
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:50 pm

casinterest wrote:
It appears the runway contracts are being awarded for the replacement runway for 5L 23R. This is the project that will eventually allow for Terminal expansion of T2 at RDU.

https://www.aviationpros.com/aoa/runway ... nt-program

Balfour Beatty has been awarded a contract to deliver the Raleigh-Durham Airport Authority’s (RDUAA) Runway 5L/23R Replacement Program. Vital to the future growth and expansion of Raleigh-Durham International Airport (RDU), the project involves building a new primary runway and transforming the existing runway into a taxiway.


Is it still proposed to be extended to 11,500 ft?
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:08 pm

Runway765 wrote:

Is it still proposed to be extended to 11,500 ft?


IIRC both RDU and CLT had requests in for 12,500ft RWYs but the FAA said no to both and limited them at either 10K or 11K. Can’t recall. It was 3-4 years ago I think.

Trivia: I believe the longest commercial RWY in the state is the 11,500ft runway at ISO. There were grand plans for the GTP (Global Trans Park) in that part of the state in the 90s that never came to fruition.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:20 pm

Runway765 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It appears the runway contracts are being awarded for the replacement runway for 5L 23R. This is the project that will eventually allow for Terminal expansion of T2 at RDU.

https://www.aviationpros.com/aoa/runway ... nt-program

Balfour Beatty has been awarded a contract to deliver the Raleigh-Durham Airport Authority’s (RDUAA) Runway 5L/23R Replacement Program. Vital to the future growth and expansion of Raleigh-Durham International Airport (RDU), the project involves building a new primary runway and transforming the existing runway into a taxiway.


Is it still proposed to be extended to 11,500 ft?



The current approach is for a replacement runway. Page 9 shows the plan

https://www.airportprojects.net/rdu-ea/ ... 080421.pdf


You can see that they are going to move the perimeter road and Lumley road as part of the plan. I think they will have the space for 11,500 if they build per the plan. However at some point Aviation parkway would have to be moved to make it all happen. I don't see it in the near future for 11,500.
 
Runway765
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:01 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

Is it still proposed to be extended to 11,500 ft?


IIRC both RDU and CLT had requests in for 12,500ft RWYs but the FAA said no to both and limited them at either 10K or 11K. Can’t recall. It was 3-4 years ago I think.

Trivia: I believe the longest commercial RWY in the state is the 11,500ft runway at ISO. There were grand plans for the GTP (Global Trans Park) in that part of the state in the 90s that never came to fruition.


I know the FAA denied the request for the new CLT runway to be 12,000 ft, but I never heard anything about RDU.

Regardless, it's utterly ridiculous neither airport can build the lengths they originally wanted. RDU is simply replacing an existing runway, not building a whole new one in addition to the current one. Why can't they lengthen it to 11,500 ft? It's good for future flexibility purposes. And every major hub like CLT should have one 12,000 ft+ runway, so idk why the FAA denied that as well.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:47 pm

I though the new runway was replacing the previous and the previous is to become a taxiway. Either way, if RDU can get 11.5, that’s okay. Or at least allow for future expansion.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:06 am

Runway765 wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
Runway765 wrote:

Is it still proposed to be extended to 11,500 ft?


IIRC both RDU and CLT had requests in for 12,500ft RWYs but the FAA said no to both and limited them at either 10K or 11K. Can’t recall. It was 3-4 years ago I think.

Trivia: I believe the longest commercial RWY in the state is the 11,500ft runway at ISO. There were grand plans for the GTP (Global Trans Park) in that part of the state in the 90s that never came to fruition.


I know the FAA denied the request for the new CLT runway to be 12,000 ft, but I never heard anything about RDU.

Regardless, it's utterly ridiculous neither airport can build the lengths they originally wanted. RDU is simply replacing an existing runway, not building a whole new one in addition to the current one. Why can't they lengthen it to 11,500 ft? It's good for future flexibility purposes. And every major hub like CLT should have one 12,000 ft+ runway, so idk why the FAA denied that as well.

If federal tax dollars are paying the bills, the FAA gets a say.

The FAA found that runway lengths greater than 10k feet are unnecessary given the scope of both the routes flown and aircraft used at both CLT and RDU.
 
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:40 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Runway765 wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:

IIRC both RDU and CLT had requests in for 12,500ft RWYs but the FAA said no to both and limited them at either 10K or 11K. Can’t recall. It was 3-4 years ago I think.

Trivia: I believe the longest commercial RWY in the state is the 11,500ft runway at ISO. There were grand plans for the GTP (Global Trans Park) in that part of the state in the 90s that never came to fruition.


I know the FAA denied the request for the new CLT runway to be 12,000 ft, but I never heard anything about RDU.

Regardless, it's utterly ridiculous neither airport can build the lengths they originally wanted. RDU is simply replacing an existing runway, not building a whole new one in addition to the current one. Why can't they lengthen it to 11,500 ft? It's good for future flexibility purposes. And every major hub like CLT should have one 12,000 ft+ runway, so idk why the FAA denied that as well.

If federal tax dollars are paying the bills, the FAA gets a say.

The FAA found that runway lengths greater than 10k feet are unnecessary given the scope of both the routes flown and aircraft used at both CLT and RDU.


I thought the money was being provided by airport fees?
 
jbwhite99
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:51 am

https://wraltechwire.com/2022/02/17/rdu ... n-january/

RDU traffic in January 2022 was up 112% vs traffic in January 2021.

And in regards to the runway, I thought they had asked for 11,500 and they were offered 10,000 feet.
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:06 am

jbwhite99 wrote:
https://wraltechwire.com/2022/02/17/rdu-says-traffic-up-112-in-january/

RDU traffic in January 2022 was up 112% vs traffic in January 2021.

And in regards to the runway, I thought they had asked for 11,500 and they were offered 10,000 feet.


They did. Due to Covid and the unlikely chances either airport would need to accommodate a flight to Asia within the next decade, they chose to limit it to 10,000 feet but still allow for the runways to be extended when needed.
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:01 pm

Yesterday appeared to be a pretty active day at the General Aviation terminal. The pad was packed with private jets for the Carolina-Duke game and Coach K last real game that matters. Suffice to say, UNC gave him an appropriate final game. But was good to see the GA Terminal in full swing. Wish it could be a. Regular event!
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:35 am

Delta just updated its schedule once again. They’ve decided they will add an additional frequency to what was originally planned for the RDU-CDG resumption in August, so now the flight will begin on August 1 (instead of August 3) and will operate Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Bumps up to daily on October 29
 
airbazar
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:01 pm

Bentheswim11 wrote:
They did. Due to Covid and the unlikely chances either airport would need to accommodate a flight to Asia within the next decade, they chose to limit it to 10,000 feet but still allow for the runways to be extended when needed.

I think that these days runway length beyond 10,000ft, at lower elevation, usually is more for safety than operations.
Case in point: EK was operating flights to DXB out of FLL's 9,000ft rwy.
If RDU can provide adequate safety beyond the runway threshold then a 12K foot runway is just a nice thing to have rather than a must have.
 
JettNC
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:40 pm

Avelo Airlines will begin flying from RDU to HVN starting May 26 with one round trip a day five days a week. A sixth flight will be added in mid-June. The service will be year-around, but the number of days may fluctuate by season, said Bud Hafer, the airline’s manager of airport relations.
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:50 pm

It’s an overdue market. Avelo has really worked out well for HVN.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:01 pm

F9 starting/restarting 8 cities from RDU. Will serve more destinations than DL (albeit maybe not daily). Video link below is interesting. F9 talks about how people laughed when they added RDUBUF a while back, but goes on to say that there are lots of family and transplant links from upstate NY to RDU (this is definitely true from my experience). His points on fuel efficiency were also interesting.

https://www.wral.com/frontier-expanding ... /20178348/

All (re)starting by end of May:
MSY
IND
DTW
ISP
CVG
SYR
PVD
SWF

I was really hoping to see DL restart IND first. Oh well, DL is happy to remain in “hub-spoke” mode these days.
 
CrimsonBeam
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:07 pm

I hope RDU becomes an F9 base or a DL hub!
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:16 pm

From the RDU Facebook page, Spirit set to move to Terminal 1 with gates A1-4. Interesting…

Hopefully Allegiant will be able to get a gate there also (course, they may actually need to fly their routes out of RDu). But it will open a gate for someone to use or to have available for a new entrant.

FI will need one but can easily share with AS or another carrier.

Still wondering what UA was laying groundwork for with their Clun. I still don’t think it was JUST for UA domestic flights… something was in the works.. IMHO.
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:08 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
From the RDU Facebook page, Spirit set to move to Terminal 1 with gates A1-4. Interesting…

Hopefully Allegiant will be able to get a gate there also (course, they may actually need to fly their routes out of RDu). But it will open a gate for someone to use or to have available for a new entrant.

FI will need one but can easily share with AS or another carrier.

Still wondering what UA was laying groundwork for with their Clun. I still don’t think it was JUST for UA domestic flights… something was in the works.. IMHO.


From what I heard a few years ago, UA was supposedly planning on flying to Beijing 3x weekly on the 787-9.
 
Rafale9312
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:20 pm

Looks like LAX and EWR on B6 are cut for the summer (May to September) - sad but not surprising considering their operation woes at the moment.

Bentheswim11 wrote:
ERJ170 wrote:
From the RDU Facebook page, Spirit set to move to Terminal 1 with gates A1-4. Interesting…

Hopefully Allegiant will be able to get a gate there also (course, they may actually need to fly their routes out of RDu). But it will open a gate for someone to use or to have available for a new entrant.

FI will need one but can easily share with AS or another carrier.

Still wondering what UA was laying groundwork for with their Clun. I still don’t think it was JUST for UA domestic flights… something was in the works.. IMHO.


From what I heard a few years ago, UA was supposedly planning on flying to Beijing 3x weekly on the 787-9.

Source? Or was this just speculation?
 
Bentheswim11
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:11 pm

Rafale9312 wrote:
Looks like LAX and EWR on B6 are cut for the summer (May to September) - sad but not surprising considering their operation woes at the moment.

Bentheswim11 wrote:
ERJ170 wrote:
From the RDU Facebook page, Spirit set to move to Terminal 1 with gates A1-4. Interesting…

Hopefully Allegiant will be able to get a gate there also (course, they may actually need to fly their routes out of RDu). But it will open a gate for someone to use or to have available for a new entrant.

FI will need one but can easily share with AS or another carrier.

Still wondering what UA was laying groundwork for with their Clun. I still don’t think it was JUST for UA domestic flights… something was in the works.. IMHO.


From what I heard a few years ago, UA was supposedly planning on flying to Beijing 3x weekly on the 787-9.

Source? Or was this just speculation?


In regards to what you said about LAX and EWR, JBU said they are suspending the flights due to low fuel issues. Some 25+ routes being impacted.

In terms of the UA part, I cannot say for certain. I believe it was someone who works in customs who said the airline was looking at a certain time slot (I can’t remember which one) that would correlate to Asia flights.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:38 am

ERJ170 wrote:
From the RDU Facebook page, Spirit set to move to Terminal 1 with gates A1-4. Interesting…

Hopefully Allegiant will be able to get a gate there also (course, they may actually need to fly their routes out of RDu). But it will open a gate for someone to use or to have available for a new entrant.

FI will need one but can easily share with AS or another carrier.

Still wondering what UA was laying groundwork for with their Clun. I still don’t think it was JUST for UA domestic flights… something was in the works.. IMHO.


FI will need a FIS gate. KEF does not have preclearance.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:11 am

Bentheswim11 wrote:
Rafale9312 wrote:
Looks like LAX and EWR on B6 are cut for the summer (May to September) - sad but not surprising considering their operation woes at the moment.

Bentheswim11 wrote:

From what I heard a few years ago, UA was supposedly planning on flying to Beijing 3x weekly on the 787-9.

Source? Or was this just speculation?


In regards to what you said about LAX and EWR, JBU said they are suspending the flights due to low fuel issues. Some 25+ routes being impacted.

In terms of the UA part, I cannot say for certain. I believe it was someone who works in customs who said the airline was looking at a certain time slot (I can’t remember which one) that would correlate to Asia flights.

Low fuel issues?

I just read a few article it says nothing about low fuel supplies
 
Bentheswim11
Posts: 67
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:17 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Bentheswim11 wrote:
Rafale9312 wrote:
Looks like LAX and EWR on B6 are cut for the summer (May to September) - sad but not surprising considering their operation woes at the moment.


Source? Or was this just speculation?


In regards to what you said about LAX and EWR, JBU said they are suspending the flights due to low fuel issues. Some 25+ routes being impacted.

In terms of the UA part, I cannot say for certain. I believe it was someone who works in customs who said the airline was looking at a certain time slot (I can’t remember which one) that would correlate to Asia flights.

Low fuel issues?

I just read a few article it says nothing about low fuel supplies


From what I saw, the airline was suspending routes because fuel is too expensive and they do not have a lot of it right now.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:12 pm

Bentheswim11 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Bentheswim11 wrote:

In regards to what you said about LAX and EWR, JBU said they are suspending the flights due to low fuel issues. Some 25+ routes being impacted.

In terms of the UA part, I cannot say for certain. I believe it was someone who works in customs who said the airline was looking at a certain time slot (I can’t remember which one) that would correlate to Asia flights.

Low fuel issues?

I just read a few article it says nothing about low fuel supplies


From what I saw, the airline was suspending routes because fuel is too expensive and they do not have a lot of it right now.


There isn’t a Jet Fuel shortage
 
USAirALB
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:18 pm

Bentheswim11 wrote:
Rafale9312 wrote:
Looks like LAX and EWR on B6 are cut for the summer (May to September) - sad but not surprising considering their operation woes at the moment.

Bentheswim11 wrote:

From what I heard a few years ago, UA was supposedly planning on flying to Beijing 3x weekly on the 787-9.

Source? Or was this just speculation?


In regards to what you said about LAX and EWR, JBU said they are suspending the flights due to low fuel issues. Some 25+ routes being impacted.

In terms of the UA part, I cannot say for certain. I believe it was someone who works in customs who said the airline was looking at a certain time slot (I can’t remember which one) that would correlate to Asia flights.

What are low fuel issues? There isn't a jet fuel shortage...

B6 is suspending routes because of staffing issues...they over-scheduled and do not have the resources to operate the full schedule they had planned, so the most marginal routes in the system had to be cut. RDU-LAX is currently scheduled to resume 2 October as a four-times weekly service, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the resumption date pushed back again. B6 is an operational mess right now, and they are simply doing everything possible to avoid chaos this summer.

RDU-PEK on UA is a dream that has no trace of reality. Your basic CBP official at RDU has no knowledge of airline/route planning, and RDU isn't a slot controlled airport.
 
airbazar
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 1:36 pm

USAirALB wrote:
RDU-PEK on UA is a dream that has no trace of reality. Your basic CBP official at RDU has no knowledge of airline/route planning, and RDU isn't a slot controlled airport.

It may not be slot controlled but it only has 2 gates for international flights which are used by AA IIRC, when not used for an international flight. So when the gate is available may not always fit with the schedule for an international operation. I'm not saying that RDU-PEK even has a snowball chance in hell of happening, just pointing out that there are other limitations.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:11 pm

There aren't currently any slots available for additional US-China flights, airlines can't add them at will.

Even if they could could, many China flights have been horribly unprofitable for the US3. No chance one of them would waste so many resources on a non-hub flight to China
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2982
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:29 pm

airbazar wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
RDU-PEK on UA is a dream that has no trace of reality. Your basic CBP official at RDU has no knowledge of airline/route planning, and RDU isn't a slot controlled airport.

It may not be slot controlled but it only has 2 gates for international flights which are used by AA IIRC, when not used for an international flight. So when the gate is available may not always fit with the schedule for an international operation. I'm not saying that RDU-PEK even has a snowball chance in hell of happening, just pointing out that there are other limitations.

I get that, but T2 is CUTE and gate assignments change based on the day's flight schedule. C24 and C25 are the designated FIS gates IIRC, and I have seen them used by DL/B6/AA in the past for departures. Looking at today's flight schedules, it looks like combined they are only being used for a total of three departures, and only one FIS arrival (B6 from CUN). Granted, pre-pandemic traffic levels haven't returned and I have no idea what their usage was like pre-pandemic, but as of right now, they are lightly being used and could accommodate additional international arrivals.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Raleigh / Durham Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:12 pm

UA would never fly from RDU to Asia. Not even all their hubs and focus cities have flights to Asia.

They aren’t going to overfly SFO or LAX which are their main airports for flights to China.

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