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Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2021

Happy New Year everyone. Hopefully 2022 will be a better year for PHL overall. Here are my predictions:

AA- Very few route announcements mainly domestic
DL- Nothing major except maybe some route increase in capacity
UA- Outside of the swap from IAD to EWR nothing else major
F9- More route announcements possibly to PHX and LAX
NK- Possibly one or two more route announcements
SY- Stagnant
El- Will actually resume flights this year
BA and QR- Will continue to provide daily service with the current aircraft they using
AC- Stagnant
B6- Stagnant as I don't see them doing much at all
LH- Will probably still stick to the 5 daily flights for the rest of the year
AS- Stagnant

New Airlines:

Finally get confirmation that Connect Airlines will start service to Toronto

Bigant0408 wrote:

Happy New Year everyone. Hopefully 2022 will be a better year for PHL overall. Here are my predictions:

AA- Very few route announcements mainly domestic
DL- Nothing major except maybe some route increase in capacity
UA- Outside of the swap from IAD to EWR nothing else major
F9- More route announcements possibly to PHX and LAX
NK- Possibly one or two more route announcements
SY- Stagnant
El- Will actually resume flights this year
BA and QR- Will continue to provide daily service with the current aircraft they using
AC- Stagnant
B6- Stagnant as I don't see them doing much at all
LH- Will probably still stick to the 5 daily flights for the rest of the year
AS- Stagnant

New Airlines:

Finally get confirmation that Connect Airlines will start service to Toronto

Happy New Years!

Love see a new airline start in PHL. Hopefully it will connect more to Canadian cities like Quebec and Halifax.

One thing I would love to see this year is F9 or NK push for 30 departures per day. Shame that B6 can't keep MCO and SJU year round.

Outside chance that TK will launch a flight? If so would be nice for a *A lounge.

The only area for growth I see is the cargo airlines as they try to get building hopefully by 2023. Would love to see more cargo airlines serve here, big bonus if we score an Asian cargo airline.

Also dumb question but is PHL suppose to get a new TRACON facility?

Bigant0408 wrote:

Happy New Year everyone. Hopefully 2022 will be a better year for PHL overall. Here are my predictions:

AA- Very few route announcements mainly domestic
AS- Stagnant

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AA or AS adding PHL-PDX nonstop service with the lack of PHL-PDX nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

AA/AS would have AA's FF base in the Northeastern U.S. and AS's FF base in the Pacific Northwest to support PHL-PDX nonstop service on AA or AS.

There would also be some connecting opportunities to other destinations in the Northeast, Eastern Canada, and Europe from PDX through PHL if PHL-PDX nonstop service is added by either AA or AS.

PHLspecial wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

Happy New Year everyone. Hopefully 2022 will be a better year for PHL overall. Here are my predictions:

AA- Very few route announcements mainly domestic
DL- Nothing major except maybe some route increase in capacity
UA- Outside of the swap from IAD to EWR nothing else major
F9- More route announcements possibly to PHX and LAX
NK- Possibly one or two more route announcements
SY- Stagnant
El- Will actually resume flights this year
BA and QR- Will continue to provide daily service with the current aircraft they using
AC- Stagnant
B6- Stagnant as I don't see them doing much at all
LH- Will probably still stick to the 5 daily flights for the rest of the year
AS- Stagnant

New Airlines:

Finally get confirmation that Connect Airlines will start service to Toronto

Happy New Years!

Love see a new airline start in PHL. Hopefully it will connect more to Canadian cities like Quebec and Halifax.

One thing I would love to see this year is F9 or NK push for 30 departures per day. Shame that B6 can't keep MCO and SJU year round.

Outside chance that TK will launch a flight? If so would be nice for a *A lounge.

The only area for growth I see is the cargo airlines as they try to get building hopefully by 2023. Would love to see more cargo airlines serve here, big bonus if we score an Asian cargo airline.

Based on Connect Airlines portfolio they are more focused on connecting passengers in PHL and ORD when they first start service so I doubt they'd expand to other Canadian cities at least for now. As for TK I doubt anything will be announce as they haven't even started or announce dates for Denver and Detroit yet.

jplatts wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

Happy New Year everyone. Hopefully 2022 will be a better year for PHL overall. Here are my predictions:

AA- Very few route announcements mainly domestic
AS- Stagnant

I had previously mentioned the possibility of AA or AS adding PHL-PDX nonstop service with the lack of PHL-PDX nonstop service being one of the biggest holes in both markets.

AA/AS would have AA's FF base in the Northeastern U.S. and AS's FF base in the Pacific Northwest to support PHL-PDX nonstop service on AA or AS.

There would also be some connecting opportunities to other destinations in the Northeast, Eastern Canada, and Europe from PDX through PHL if PHL-PDX nonstop service is added by either AA or AS.

Yea I agree it would make sense to bring the route back especially for connectivity

aerace wrote:

Yeah this year I would presume is going to be flat. Next year is going to be the real one for PHL to be excited for with XLR deliveries to commence. I am just happy to see that (barring any more crazy variants) PHL is getting back to being more active across the pond. I just wish AA would be more competitive on pricing. People definitely drive up the turnpike to EWR for cheaper TATL (and will now be able to fly again on UA) so it would be nice to see AA adjust pricing for the tristate folks here to take advantage. EI will at least keep DUB pricing in check.

I was one of those people back in November drove up to EWR to fly to MCO cause pricing was much cheaper from the time of booking. I just think PHL needs more competition overall on TATL travel that's not OneWorld related but right now it's a pipe dream as all we have is LH basically

Bigant0408 wrote:

aerace wrote:

Yeah this year I would presume is going to be flat. Next year is going to be the real one for PHL to be excited for with XLR deliveries to commence. I am just happy to see that (barring any more crazy variants) PHL is getting back to being more active across the pond. I just wish AA would be more competitive on pricing. People definitely drive up the turnpike to EWR for cheaper TATL (and will now be able to fly again on UA) so it would be nice to see AA adjust pricing for the tristate folks here to take advantage. EI will at least keep DUB pricing in check.

I was one of those people back in November drove up to EWR to fly to MCO cause pricing was much cheaper from the time of booking. I just think PHL needs more competition overall on TATL travel that's not OneWorld related but right now it's a pipe dream as all we have is LH basically

The best chance is AF giving the best connections besides LHR. KLM would be a pipe dream. TAP or Swiss would neat. Though that has not worked out in the past. Even with the XLR I don't think the pricing will be cheaper than EWR. We need more competition.

aerace wrote:

Yeah this year I would presume is going to be flat. Next year is going to be the real one for PHL to be excited for with XLR deliveries to commence. I am just happy to see that (barring any more crazy variants) PHL is getting back to being more active across the pond. I just wish AA would be more competitive on pricing. People definitely drive up the turnpike to EWR for cheaper TATL (and will now be able to fly again on UA) so it would be nice to see AA adjust pricing for the tristate folks here to take advantage. EI will at least keep DUB pricing in check.

won’t XLR routes be announced late this year then?

Maybe KEF HEL SNN EDI BLQ DBV BUD PRG WAW OSL ARN NCE BHX MAN NAP PMO

Bigant0408 wrote:

aerace wrote:

Yeah this year I would presume is going to be flat. Next year is going to be the real one for PHL to be excited for with XLR deliveries to commence. I am just happy to see that (barring any more crazy variants) PHL is getting back to being more active across the pond. I just wish AA would be more competitive on pricing. People definitely drive up the turnpike to EWR for cheaper TATL (and will now be able to fly again on UA) so it would be nice to see AA adjust pricing for the tristate folks here to take advantage. EI will at least keep DUB pricing in check.

I was one of those people back in November drove up to EWR to fly to MCO cause pricing was much cheaper from the time of booking. I just think PHL needs more competition overall on TATL travel that's not OneWorld related but right now it's a pipe dream as all we have is LH basically

Which is crazy...one would think that of all routes PHL-MCO is one that you'd find competitive pricing given the 4 airlines (and two ULCC) on the route. But anecdotally those ULCC fares can be in line with legacies.

I would love to see either UA or DL bring back LAX or even better if B6 would start it!

phllax wrote:

I would love to see either UA or DL bring back LAX or even better if B6 would start it!

Me too. UA would be the most realistic. B6 doesn't have enough aircraft. DL everything goes through ATL.

aerace wrote:

But yeah, slim pickings expected. Maybe more NK expansion? AS to PDX/SAN? Southern Airways Express to closer PA destinations? Nothing mind-blowing to say the least..

With AS now in one-world, it surprises me that neither AA nor AS could make PDX-PHL work...

For those who are local to PHL, the airport has a volunteer program they I've been with for the last two month and I enjoy it thus far. I was able to watch passengers depart a QR flight one time and I believe the flight was full as tons of people departed the plane. The program is more about helping/assisting passengers but there are other benefits as well including free parking at the employee parking lot for personal travel.

Bigant0408 wrote:

For those who are local to PHL, the airport has a volunteer program they I've been with for the last two month and I enjoy it thus far. I was able to watch passengers depart a QR flight one time and I believe the flight was full as tons of people departed the plane. The program is more about helping/assisting passengers but there are other benefits as well including free parking at the employee parking lot for personal travel.

Totally would do it if they gave me free Septa rides. I'm surprised that is not a paid job.

PHLspecial wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

For those who are local to PHL, the airport has a volunteer program they I've been with for the last two month and I enjoy it thus far. I was able to watch passengers depart a QR flight one time and I believe the flight was full as tons of people departed the plane. The program is more about helping/assisting passengers but there are other benefits as well including free parking at the employee parking lot for personal travel.

Totally would do it if they gave me free Septa rides. I'm surprised that is not a paid job.

Yea septa rides are not free but discounted prices for septa are offered.

aerace wrote:

phllax wrote:

I would love to see either UA or DL bring back LAX or even better if B6 would start it!

Right?! It’s bananas that PHL had so many legacy carriers on LAX and now all it has is AA (and NK which good luck to those making that 6 hour flight). B6 should be on that route and would love to see it with Mint.

I remember F9 was going to start that route I believe last year or 2020 before covid hit but now they don't fly to LAX overall. Yea B6 would be awesome but seems unlikely (hope I'm wrong). I believe I remember hearing when AS left that route was partly because they were competing against AA (pre Oneworld) for premium traffic and NK offering dirt cheap prices. In general hope another airline gives it a shot

PITFlyer330 wrote:

aerace wrote:

Yeah this year I would presume is going to be flat. Next year is going to be the real one for PHL to be excited for with XLR deliveries to commence. I am just happy to see that (barring any more crazy variants) PHL is getting back to being more active across the pond. I just wish AA would be more competitive on pricing. People definitely drive up the turnpike to EWR for cheaper TATL (and will now be able to fly again on UA) so it would be nice to see AA adjust pricing for the tristate folks here to take advantage. EI will at least keep DUB pricing in check.

won’t XLR routes be announced late this year then?

Maybe KEF HEL SNN EDI BLQ DBV BUD PRG WAW OSL ARN NCE BHX MAN NAP PMO

I'm going to lean towards 2024. Only because we haven't seen a test flight for the XLR yet. I would think AA would go for the CFM leap-1A engines for commonality and not get the upgraded PW package. Even so we have no idea how long the certification will take plus potential delays.

Will PHL ever see a carrier fly to Asia?

Besides QR.

PHLspecial wrote:

Will PHL ever see a carrier fly to Asia?

Besides QR.

IMO I can only see Japan Airlines starting service but no time soon.

US to Asia seems unpredictable at best for a few years. I do not anticipate anything soon.

Bigant0408 wrote:

PHLspecial wrote:

Will PHL ever see a carrier fly to Asia?

Besides QR.

IMO I can only see Japan Airlines starting service but no time soon.

Yeah COVID I think as lowered our chances even further. Hopefully I'm wrong

B6 will be ending service to San Juan as part of a 17 route cut

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-b ... oute-cuts/

IMO I though this route would survive but obliviously the aircraft is needed elsewhere

aerace wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

B6 will be ending service to San Juan as part of a 17 route cut

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-b ... oute-cuts/

IMO I though this route would survive but obliviously the aircraft is needed elsewhere

They should have gotten on this route years ago. Since then, F9 and NK not only came aboard, but now are both double daily. AA has shrunk since they used to throw AA330s on that route, but B6 came in too late to the party. Kinda not surprising so now B6 is back to just FLL and BOS.

I thought the same thing as well. So with them now back to just two routes I'm curious as to how scheduling will go because I believe they use two gates in terminal E and with there current schedule they fly 4 times out of the day. Would it makes sense to just give up one gate to use just the one at this rate (They use gate E4 the entire day)?

Bigant0408 wrote:

aerace wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

B6 will be ending service to San Juan as part of a 17 route cut

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-b ... oute-cuts/

IMO I though this route would survive but obliviously the aircraft is needed elsewhere

They should have gotten on this route years ago. Since then, F9 and NK not only came aboard, but now are both double daily. AA has shrunk since they used to throw AA330s on that route, but B6 came in too late to the party. Kinda not surprising so now B6 is back to just FLL and BOS.

I thought the same thing as well. So with them now back to just two routes I'm curious as to how scheduling will go because I believe they use two gates in terminal E and with there current schedule they fly 4 times out of the day. Would it makes sense to just give up one gate to use just the one at this rate (They use gate E4 the entire day)?

Currently I believe the E gates is not maxed out so they wouldn't have to give up one gate. If they were going to, would make sense for them to move to terminal D and have gate D1 and D3. That way F9 and NK would have their sides of the terminal.

Anyways I thought that SJU, MCO would have made it through. Shame that B6 is so small here. I thought it would complete better since it's branding was a bit more premium than AA on narrowbodies.

PHLspecial wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

aerace wrote:

They should have gotten on this route years ago. Since then, F9 and NK not only came aboard, but now are both double daily. AA has shrunk since they used to throw AA330s on that route, but B6 came in too late to the party. Kinda not surprising so now B6 is back to just FLL and BOS.

I thought the same thing as well. So with them now back to just two routes I'm curious as to how scheduling will go because I believe they use two gates in terminal E and with there current schedule they fly 4 times out of the day. Would it makes sense to just give up one gate to use just the one at this rate (They use gate E4 the entire day)?

Currently I believe the E gates is not maxed out so they wouldn't have to give up one gate. If they were going to, would make sense for them to move to terminal D and have gate D1 and D3. That way F9 and NK would have their sides of the terminal.

Anyways I thought that SJU, MCO would have made it through. Shame that B6 is so small here. I thought it would complete better since it's branding was a bit more premium than AA on narrowbodies.

I think E is all CUTE, so it doesn't matter.

As for SJU, maybe if they stopped tinkering with the flight times it would have done better. First it was daylight, then a red-eye, then late night. It seems like they couldn't figure out who they were gearing the flight to!

Unfortunate but as mentioned I think B6 was late to the game on both MCO and SJU. Their priority currently is NYC/BOS and as a result do not have the resources to throw elbows around against 4 and 3 competitors respectively on PHL-MCO/SJU

phllax wrote:

I think E is all CUTE, so it doesn't matter.

As for SJU, maybe if they stopped tinkering with the flight times it would have done better. First it was daylight, then a red-eye, then late night. It seems like they couldn't figure out who they were gearing the flight to!

I agree I like terminal E way more than terminal D. Terminal D might be the oldest building in the whole airport.

LH notified PHL stakeholders this week that they will be pausing PHL service again after LH427 departs on Saturday due to the pandemic. Service resumption is scheduled for March 28th with 5 flights weekly. I think Wednesday and Friday were the days without service.

Not surprising LH will pause service. Hopefully this route will remain stable!

Does anyone know why TUI continues to fly cargo here?

QR looks like they fly the 35K a few times a week this month. No idea if that is simply based on aircraft availability

usairways85 wrote:

QR looks like they fly the 35K a few times a week this month. No idea if that is simply based on aircraft availability

It seems like it, it goes back and fourth between the A359 and A35K.

usairways85 wrote:

QR looks like they fly the 35K a few times a week this month. No idea if that is simply based on aircraft availability

Nice. I see 35K will be here on Sunday when I'm volunteering at PHL so I'll it an effort to check it out.

Bigant0408 wrote:

usairways85 wrote:

QR looks like they fly the 35K a few times a week this month. No idea if that is simply based on aircraft availability

Nice. I see 35K will be here on Sunday when I'm volunteering at PHL so I'll it an effort to check it out.

If you can post a picture as well. I'm sure us avgeeks will enjoy it

PHLspecial wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

usairways85 wrote:

QR looks like they fly the 35K a few times a week this month. No idea if that is simply based on aircraft availability

Nice. I see 35K will be here on Sunday when I'm volunteering at PHL so I'll it an effort to check it out.

If you can post a picture as well. I'm sure us avgeeks will enjoy it

I'll try my best to get a decent pic or few of it for you guys

I took a couple of pics of the Qatar 350K and one of a BA 789. I'm trying to post them here but having issues as I don't post pics on here much. They are jpg files. Any suggestions on how I can post. Thanks

In other news Greenland is targeting major northeast cities including Philly for tourism connectivity. The fact that the city is even mentioned from Greenland is good news IMO

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... d-europe-/

PHLspecial wrote:

Will PHL ever see a carrier fly to Asia?

Besides QR.

I know this was discussed at length pre-Covid, and I recall the consensus would be NRT-PHL would launch first with either JAL or AA. I also heard from an aviation consultant that China was likely this decade but the Chinese officials thought it was part of metro NYC area...again pre-Covid. I don't think we will see that inflection back to pre-Covid traffic levels until next decade. I know the pundits stated 3-5 years but I find that unlikely. At this point, PHL-NRT is 50/50 at best for starting this decade.

Bigant0408 wrote:

In other news Greenland is targeting major northeast cities including Philly for tourism connectivity. The fact that the city is even mentioned from Greenland is good news IMO

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... d-europe-/

That is interesting, but again you are talking a metro area of 5-6m people not chump change. The biggest obstacle PHL has is its close distance to NYC a mere 90 miles away. I always thought the airport management did a horrible job at promoting the airport and have seen very little evidence of any improvement. If it were private sector running the airport the people running it would be long gone. I hope that changes but for now I am afraid it is status quo...large AA focus city with some LCC penetration.

Simply Flying posted about Frontiers top airports and top routes and MCO to PHL is there number on route and #4 airport

https://simpleflying.com/frontier-top-airlines-routes/

With the big news about the F9 and NK merger I will be curious how this will affect PHL especially with the Oakland and Aguadilla routes. Would Allegiant maybe consider operating out the airport then. This will be interesting to say the least

aerace wrote:

Bigant0408 wrote:

With the big news about the F9 and NK merger I will be curious how this will affect PHL especially with the Oakland and Aguadilla routes. Would Allegiant maybe consider operating out the airport then. This will be interesting to say the least

I was thinking this. We have ~30 destinations from F9 and soon-to-be ~20 on NK. I also remember NK saying that they really see opportunity in PHL, so I would be curious to see if this makes PHL a front-runner for a major focus for the merged airline..

And with Spirit taking on two new gates and expanding the check in counter gate space I wonder if this was part of the plan as well. Another big question at least for PHL is will F9 do more daily routes besides MCO and San Juan. Obviously all speculation but hopefully this will bring more routes especially towards the west coast

Bigant0408 wrote:

With the big news about the F9 and NK merger I will be curious how this will affect PHL especially with the Oakland and Aguadilla routes. Would Allegiant maybe consider operating out the airport then. This will be interesting to say the least

I think this is huge for PHL. Of course they will not maintain the current service levels that have for both F9 and NK. However I do see that PHL will be a major focus for them. Short term we will see some reduced frequencies. Long term I see them expanding into more markets. I see those two routes sticking around because NK does it's research for starting new routes. Combined I can see F9 and NK offer up to 40+ flights a day maybe even pushing 50.

Maybe I'm crazy but with this combined network PHL can be #3 or #4 largest hub in their network.

I personally see this F9/NK merger as a big win for PHL, if you see the trend what F9 has done in the past and recently with NE markets such as EWR & IAD, they have scaled back drastically or have completely exited the market where at PHL both F9 and NK have expanded exponentially over the years. Now it makes sense why you never saw a F9 retaliation with the most recent NK expansion