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aerace
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:29 pm

Considering that UA and DL seem to be adding/bringing back a lot of EU routes for S23, do you think we should expect to see the return of PRG, DBV, TXL, SNN, EDI, KEF and others, as long as aircraft are available? Any other new adds or edits do we think might bubble up?
 
dfw88
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:41 pm

aerace wrote:
Considering that UA and DL seem to be adding/bringing back a lot of EU routes for S23, do you think we should expect to see the return of PRG, DBV, TXL, SNN, EDI, KEF and others, as long as aircraft are available? Any other new adds or edits do we think might bubble up?


TXL closed, but other than that I sure hope we see at least some of the others. It all depends on Boeing at this point, making me think that AA won't be announcing anything for next summer until a newly-delivered 787 is on property and a timeline for the rest is established. Assuming that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the cities you mentioned. PRG, EDI, and BUD seem the most likely to me, but that's just a guess. There was talk of flying KEF on a 321neo (selling domestic first as PE), so that could easily happen as well with so many NEOs now on property.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 2:52 pm

aerace wrote:
Considering that UA and DL seem to be adding/bringing back a lot of EU routes for S23, do you think we should expect to see the return of PRG, DBV, TXL, SNN, EDI, KEF and others, as long as aircraft are available? Any other new adds or edits do we think might bubble up?

I can see PRG and DBV being on the 787 but all those flights can easily be on the A321xlr once delivered. Though its not going to be here until 2024, probably summer 2025.

I believe BER is the airport that AA can fly into instead of TXL
 
aerace
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:21 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
aerace wrote:
Considering that UA and DL seem to be adding/bringing back a lot of EU routes for S23, do you think we should expect to see the return of PRG, DBV, TXL, SNN, EDI, KEF and others, as long as aircraft are available? Any other new adds or edits do we think might bubble up?

I can see PRG and DBV being on the 787 but all those flights can easily be on the A321xlr once delivered. Though its not going to be here until 2024, probably summer 2025.

I believe BER is the airport that AA can fly into instead of TXL

Yep, that's my bad, BER it is. I remember AA had slotted in for this year 787s to SNN and EDI but could've just been placeholders since both were canceled.
 
aerace
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:23 pm

F9 and NK merger is off which I can only think will be a huge win for PHL for multiple reasons:
- B6 has to leave the NEA arrangement where it can be argued that AA focused expansion out of NYC/BOS over PHL because of B6 influence there.
- B6 has next to no presence in PHL but gains ~20 NK destinations out of PHL (with FLL being the sole overlap). F9 and NK overlapped on ~80% of routes.
- NK has stated there was more to come for PHL so hopefully B6 recognizes the opportunity here for continued expansion.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4354
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:30 pm

Let's hope one of them plays out. I anticipate 90% of NK's PHL flights will be cut in a future NK/B6 operation
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:44 pm

I agree with usairways on this one. B6 will focus more on west coast markets or any premium markets.
 
dfw88
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:10 pm

aerace wrote:
- B6 has to leave the NEA arrangement where it can be argued that AA focused expansion out of NYC/BOS over PHL because of B6 influence there.


This isn't certain. While is definitely a possibility, B6 has committed to divesting NK slots in NYC and BOS in order to try and have both. I can certainly see a world where the NEA has to end for the B6/NK merger to go through, but I don't think it's a sure thing at all. I guess we'll see how it works out over the next few years.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 912
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:17 pm

IMO I feel that NK will loose a good majority of it's operations if the merger is officially approved (Hope I'm completely wrong). The only routes I could see NK/B6 keeping are probably Orlando, San Juan, Los Angeles.
 
BENFRANKLIN
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:34 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:26 am

since the thread has been quiet.. if you had to choose a new Carrier at kphl… who would it be? A new European airline? Middle East? Asia? interested what everyone is thinking
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 912
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:25 pm

BENFRANKLIN wrote:
since the thread has been quiet.. if you had to choose a new Carrier at kphl… who would it be? A new European airline? Middle East? Asia? interested what everyone is thinking


I would choose Japan Airlines. Europe in general is mostly covered granted competition for lower prices would be great, PHL IMO needs services service to Asia
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:34 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
BENFRANKLIN wrote:
since the thread has been quiet.. if you had to choose a new Carrier at kphl… who would it be? A new European airline? Middle East? Asia? interested what everyone is thinking


I would choose Japan Airlines. Europe in general is mostly covered granted competition for lower prices would be great, PHL IMO needs services service to Asia

Japan, ANA or Korean Airlines would be nice. I want service to Taiwan with EVA or China airlines but those are far fetched.

Middle East - Emiartes

Eurpoean - KLM, Iberia, SAS, or Turkish Airlines
 
aerace
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:42 pm

BENFRANKLIN wrote:
since the thread has been quiet.. if you had to choose a new Carrier at kphl… who would it be? A new European airline? Middle East? Asia? interested what everyone is thinking

At this point, it would just be nice to see an international carrier commence service after there had been speculation or public mention over the years. From TK to EK, IB to PD, I would like to see some new flags wherever they may come from. I personally would love to see RAM here and work to build up an Africa push from PHL. AA was starting to do so with service to CMN pre-Covid but now there's no aircraft for it, so to see them enter the market and take over the route would be exciting.
 
Zbogart757
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:15 pm

BENFRANKLIN wrote:
since the thread has been quiet.. if you had to choose a new Carrier at kphl… who would it be? A new European airline? Middle East? Asia? interested what everyone is thinking

I personally would love to see FI and AF make a return to PHL, but other than those two I would love to see IB, TP, EK, and JL here.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:24 pm

Zbogart757 wrote:
I personally would love to see FI and AF make a return to PHL, but other than those two I would love to see IB, TP, EK, and JL here.

It's disappointing that FI didn't restart service here but chose BWI. Is our o/d market that weak here? I thought FI is pretty cheap alternative to Europe
 
Zbogart757
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:27 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
I personally would love to see FI and AF make a return to PHL, but other than those two I would love to see IB, TP, EK, and JL here.

It's disappointing that FI didn't restart service here but chose BWI. Is our o/d market that weak here? I thought FI is pretty cheap alternative to Europe

With the additional B737maxs they have coming, I think there could be a chance for a S23 return but who knows.
 
aerace
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:35 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
I personally would love to see FI and AF make a return to PHL, but other than those two I would love to see IB, TP, EK, and JL here.

It's disappointing that FI didn't restart service here but chose BWI. Is our o/d market that weak here? I thought FI is pretty cheap alternative to Europe

If you ask me, I wouldn't have been surprised if FI fell back this summer, with the expectation that AA was going to get back to REK.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 912
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:44 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
Zbogart757 wrote:
I personally would love to see FI and AF make a return to PHL, but other than those two I would love to see IB, TP, EK, and JL here.

It's disappointing that FI didn't restart service here but chose BWI. Is our o/d market that weak here? I thought FI is pretty cheap alternative to Europe


From articles I read in the past FI extended there seasonal service 2 years in a row (granted each time the stopped it for whatever reason)

https://www.phillymag.com/business/2018 ... hl-travel/

I know FI has more history with BWI so I'm not surprised there. I know I've mentioned this in the past but I would be curious if PLAY has the airport on their radar as they do plan to expand to more USA airports next year and they already have New York, Boston and Baltimore covered.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:30 pm

I love Philly and South Jersey and my time living there and family history there, but to be a Debbie downer why would FI fly BWI and PHL? For them it is nearly the same market. Precovid targeting Asia would be helpful though as the recovery there stays slow that will take years. Best bet is AA connecting more dots in Europe again IMO, or a Caribbean airline. YMMV of course.
 
aerace
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:11 pm

FlyingSicilian wrote:
I love Philly and South Jersey and my time living there and family history there, but to be a Debbie downer why would FI fly BWI and PHL? For them it is nearly the same market. Precovid targeting Asia would be helpful though as the recovery there stays slow that will take years. Best bet is AA connecting more dots in Europe again IMO, or a Caribbean airline. YMMV of course.

FI launched PHL from summer 2017 and was set to be back in 2020. FI launched BWI summer 2018 and left in January 2019 but that was more in response to the melee of the FI/WOW war that shortly crumbled thereafter. Maybe FI still had time on their contract with BWI versus PHL which has a much more robust TATL schedule?
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 912
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:33 pm

Side note, New Bern airport is going to use funds they were granted to help promote service to PHL

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0003-0163

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee and marketing to start new service to Philadelphia. The community’s current airfares are slightly higher than the national average. The community states that the proposed new service will benefit multiple sectors of its economy, and in particular, its tourism industry along the coast including North Carolina’s Outer Banks. The only current service to New Bern is from Charlotte, NC, on American Airlines. The community is providing a high level of local funding for the proposal."
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:02 am

Bigant0408 wrote:
Side note, New Bern airport is going to use funds they were granted to help promote service to PHL

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0003-0163

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee and marketing to start new service to Philadelphia. The community’s current airfares are slightly higher than the national average. The community states that the proposed new service will benefit multiple sectors of its economy, and in particular, its tourism industry along the coast including North Carolina’s Outer Banks. The only current service to New Bern is from Charlotte, NC, on American Airlines. The community is providing a high level of local funding for the proposal."

Glad to see more EAS flights being routed here. Hoping for more small airlines in the future
 
crownvic
Posts: 3068
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 3:50 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
I love Philly and South Jersey and my time living there and family history there, but to be a Debbie downer why would FI fly BWI and PHL? For them it is nearly the same market. Precovid targeting Asia would be helpful though as the recovery there stays slow that will take years. Best bet is AA connecting more dots in Europe again IMO, or a Caribbean airline. YMMV of course.


Not sure I totally agree. While the catchment area SW of PHL like Wilmington or deep southern PA will go to BWI, I highly doubt there is much of anything north or east of PHL including all of NJ that would go to BWI. It is just too far by car.

Honestly, I have given up after more than 60 years trying to figure out what PHL's problem is attracting foreign carriers. It is the largest city in the U.S., with the least amount of foreign carriers. Honestly, the only bright spot this city had in my lifetime, was USAir/Airways. They did a great job going from a small regional airline, to an impressive international operation that was growing by leaps and bounds. USAir was the airline that finally put PHL on the world map. For those that lived in this area, it was very promising. Sadly, since AA has taken over, it has reverted back to the "red headed stepchild" of its past. We can blame COVID, 787 delays, crew and staffing shortages or whatever else, but the city just seems to suffer from an identity crisis that goes back for many decades and has become AA's lowest priority hub.The city is in need of an aggressive sales and marketing group that will go out and give the store away to attract some more foreign carriers and it should be at AA's expense. AA has become a disservice to PHL with its high fare structure and limited schedule compared to their other hubs. Sadly, UA at EWR is too close, while DL tried LHR/CDG with little fanfare pre-COVID. You would think this would open opportunities for these European carriers to step in, but they have not. Again, the city needs to do a better job in its marketing efforts.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1248
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:34 am

crownvic wrote:
Not sure I totally agree. While the catchment area SW of PHL like Wilmington or deep southern PA will go to BWI, I highly doubt there is much of anything north or east of PHL including all of NJ that would go to BWI. It is just too far by car.

Honestly, I have given up after more than 60 years trying to figure out what PHL's problem is attracting foreign carriers. It is the largest city in the U.S., with the least amount of foreign carriers. Honestly, the only bright spot this city had in my lifetime, was USAir/Airways. They did a great job going from a small regional airline, to an impressive international operation that was growing by leaps and bounds. USAir was the airline that finally put PHL on the world map. For those that lived in this area, it was very promising. Sadly, since AA has taken over, it has reverted back to the "red headed stepchild" of its past. We can blame COVID, 787 delays, crew and staffing shortages or whatever else, but the city just seems to suffer from an identity crisis that goes back for many decades and has become AA's lowest priority hub.The city is in need of an aggressive sales and marketing group that will go out and give the store away to attract some more foreign carriers and it should be at AA's expense. AA has become a disservice to PHL with its high fare structure and limited schedule compared to their other hubs. Sadly, UA at EWR is too close, while DL tried LHR/CDG with little fanfare pre-COVID. You would think this would open opportunities for these European carriers to step in, but they have not. Again, the city needs to do a better job in its marketing efforts.

AA has not really add passenger numbers over the years. It's all been the ULCC. Of course AA added a number of destinations but really they barley have grown larger here. I'm thinking there will be a lot of down gauges once the xlr is here. I don't think the 787 are highly utilized like someone mentioned in the AA thread. We are also a weak cargo hub so it's hard to justify some of the 787 routes.Maybe the cargo expanded might help. Related is that the PhilaPort has been getting more Asian services so that might translate to more direct cargo service to Asia.
As for the city we need more companies to be located in center city and attract more companies in general. Cutting the wage tax is a good start.
 
crownvic
Posts: 3068
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:08 am

PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Not sure I totally agree. While the catchment area SW of PHL like Wilmington or deep southern PA will go to BWI, I highly doubt there is much of anything north or east of PHL including all of NJ that would go to BWI. It is just too far by car.

Honestly, I have given up after more than 60 years trying to figure out what PHL's problem is attracting foreign carriers. It is the largest city in the U.S., with the least amount of foreign carriers. Honestly, the only bright spot this city had in my lifetime, was USAir/Airways. They did a great job going from a small regional airline, to an impressive international operation that was growing by leaps and bounds. USAir was the airline that finally put PHL on the world map. For those that lived in this area, it was very promising. Sadly, since AA has taken over, it has reverted back to the "red headed stepchild" of its past. We can blame COVID, 787 delays, crew and staffing shortages or whatever else, but the city just seems to suffer from an identity crisis that goes back for many decades and has become AA's lowest priority hub.The city is in need of an aggressive sales and marketing group that will go out and give the store away to attract some more foreign carriers and it should be at AA's expense. AA has become a disservice to PHL with its high fare structure and limited schedule compared to their other hubs. Sadly, UA at EWR is too close, while DL tried LHR/CDG with little fanfare pre-COVID. You would think this would open opportunities for these European carriers to step in, but they have not. Again, the city needs to do a better job in its marketing efforts.

AA has not really add passenger numbers over the years. It's all been the ULCC. Of course AA added a number of destinations but really they barley have grown larger here. I'm thinking there will be a lot of down gauges once the xlr is here. I don't think the 787 are highly utilized like someone mentioned in the AA thread. We are also a weak cargo hub so it's hard to justify some of the 787 routes.Maybe the cargo expanded might help. Related is that the PhilaPort has been getting more Asian services so that might translate to more direct cargo service to Asia.
As for the city we need more companies to be located in center city and attract more companies in general. Cutting the wage tax is a good start.


Cargo. That's another problem. For where the city is positioned geographically along the I-95 corridor, it has seen little growth compared to other cargo hubs. UPS has done little if anything at PHL since they opened this "hub" back in 1989. Yep, 33 year later, it has not done much with it since then. Initially, this cargo hub was intended to be their premier east coast hub, with SDF being the primary hub and ONT being the premier west coast hub. Since then, ONT has grown, SDF has become massive and PHL just sort of lingers along. Outside of the holiday rush, it has had lackluster growth. Another huge disappointment considering how air freight has surged in recent years. Another head scratcher for me. I don't know if this city just has an inherent problem attracting air service (both pax and cargo), has a bad reputation, gets squeezed from NY or just has bad luck, but it just seems for whatever good news comes out of this airport, it is overshadowed by bad news. It will remain to be seen how the city's new cargo facility will attract new business/carriers. Let's cross our fingers because it is really getting boring around here. When Contour is this city's biggest news in the past two years, that is not very encouraging!
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 926
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 7:14 am

PHLspecial wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
Side note, New Bern airport is going to use funds they were granted to help promote service to PHL

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0003-0163

"The funding will be used for a revenue guarantee and marketing to start new service to Philadelphia. The community’s current airfares are slightly higher than the national average. The community states that the proposed new service will benefit multiple sectors of its economy, and in particular, its tourism industry along the coast including North Carolina’s Outer Banks. The only current service to New Bern is from Charlotte, NC, on American Airlines. The community is providing a high level of local funding for the proposal."


Glad to see more EAS flights being routed here. Hoping for more small airlines in the future


This isn't EAS. It's a Small Community Air Service Development Program grant. There's no guarantee this will take off either.

Although some more EAS should be coming with proposed service to AOO with Contour.
 
FlyingSicilian
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:50 am

crownvic wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
I love Philly and South Jersey and my time living there and family history there, but to be a Debbie downer why would FI fly BWI and PHL? For them it is nearly the same market. Precovid targeting Asia would be helpful though as the recovery there stays slow that will take years. Best bet is AA connecting more dots in Europe again IMO, or a Caribbean airline. YMMV of course.


Not sure I totally agree. While the catchment area SW of PHL like Wilmington or deep southern PA will go to BWI, I highly doubt there is much of anything north or east of PHL including all of NJ that would go to BWI. It is just too far by car.

Honestly, I have given up after more than 60 years trying to figure out what PHL's problem is attracting foreign carriers. It is the largest city in the U.S., with the least amount of foreign carriers. Honestly, the only bright spot this city had in my lifetime, was USAir/Airways. They did a great job going from a small regional airline, to an impressive international operation that was growing by leaps and bounds. USAir was the airline that finally put PHL on the world map. For those that lived in this area, it was very promising. Sadly, since AA has taken over, it has reverted back to the "red headed stepchild" of its past. We can blame COVID, 787 delays, crew and staffing shortages or whatever else, but the city just seems to suffer from an identity crisis that goes back for many decades and has become AA's lowest priority hub.The city is in need of an aggressive sales and marketing group that will go out and give the store away to attract some more foreign carriers and it should be at AA's expense. AA has become a disservice to PHL with its high fare structure and limited schedule compared to their other hubs. Sadly, UA at EWR is too close, while DL tried LHR/CDG with little fanfare pre-COVID. You would think this would open opportunities for these European carriers to step in, but they have not. Again, the city needs to do a better job in its marketing efforts.


I get what you are saying re geography but my, albeit just, personal experience was slightly different.

I lived in Moorestown for several years and was a very frequent traveller and only used BWI once in three years, but plenty of neighbours drove to BWI for cheap family flights and these were not exactly lower income folks. Families of four and five people saved 100s after a quick train ride or drive down to BWI. Certainly minor compared to just using PHL or the many folks heading up to EWR or even using TTN for 'mouse' flights. Oddly I never knew anyone that drove down to the shore for ACY but I know it happens. I just think FI or play could open other more expanded Geographic markets versus serving BWI vs PHL. But not my call in the end lol.

Philly suffers from leakage and being between NYC and DC markets IMO. That said I did appreciate the AA nonstops as I was flying biz and thankfully not paying for it. I did make the drive to EWR many times. But from my part of the metro EWR was easy access. I do hope PHL thrives. I actually always found the UA and AA staff nice and helpful. TSA notsomuch.
 
Bigant0408
Posts: 912
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:53 pm

crownvic wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Not sure I totally agree. While the catchment area SW of PHL like Wilmington or deep southern PA will go to BWI, I highly doubt there is much of anything north or east of PHL including all of NJ that would go to BWI. It is just too far by car.

Honestly, I have given up after more than 60 years trying to figure out what PHL's problem is attracting foreign carriers. It is the largest city in the U.S., with the least amount of foreign carriers. Honestly, the only bright spot this city had in my lifetime, was USAir/Airways. They did a great job going from a small regional airline, to an impressive international operation that was growing by leaps and bounds. USAir was the airline that finally put PHL on the world map. For those that lived in this area, it was very promising. Sadly, since AA has taken over, it has reverted back to the "red headed stepchild" of its past. We can blame COVID, 787 delays, crew and staffing shortages or whatever else, but the city just seems to suffer from an identity crisis that goes back for many decades and has become AA's lowest priority hub.The city is in need of an aggressive sales and marketing group that will go out and give the store away to attract some more foreign carriers and it should be at AA's expense. AA has become a disservice to PHL with its high fare structure and limited schedule compared to their other hubs. Sadly, UA at EWR is too close, while DL tried LHR/CDG with little fanfare pre-COVID. You would think this would open opportunities for these European carriers to step in, but they have not. Again, the city needs to do a better job in its marketing efforts.

AA has not really add passenger numbers over the years. It's all been the ULCC. Of course AA added a number of destinations but really they barley have grown larger here. I'm thinking there will be a lot of down gauges once the xlr is here. I don't think the 787 are highly utilized like someone mentioned in the AA thread. We are also a weak cargo hub so it's hard to justify some of the 787 routes.Maybe the cargo expanded might help. Related is that the PhilaPort has been getting more Asian services so that might translate to more direct cargo service to Asia.
As for the city we need more companies to be located in center city and attract more companies in general. Cutting the wage tax is a good start.


Cargo. That's another problem. For where the city is positioned geographically along the I-95 corridor, it has seen little growth compared to other cargo hubs. UPS has done little if anything at PHL since they opened this "hub" back in 1989. Yep, 33 year later, it has not done much with it since then. Initially, this cargo hub was intended to be their premier east coast hub, with SDF being the primary hub and ONT being the premier west coast hub. Since then, ONT has grown, SDF has become massive and PHL just sort of lingers along. Outside of the holiday rush, it has had lackluster growth. Another huge disappointment considering how air freight has surged in recent years. Another head scratcher for me. I don't know if this city just has an inherent problem attracting air service (both pax and cargo), has a bad reputation, gets squeezed from NY or just has bad luck, but it just seems for whatever good news comes out of this airport, it is overshadowed by bad news. It will remain to be seen how the city's new cargo facility will attract new business/carriers. Let's cross our fingers because it is really getting boring around here. When Contour is this city's biggest news in the past two years, that is not very encouraging!


As we all know PHL has a lot of catching up to do. The next biggest news will more than likely be Connect Airlines so we have been getting smaller airlines but I considered it welcoming regardless of operational size. But now we hear the news that AA is cutting flights for September and October
 
aerace
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:08 pm

I'm just sick of PHL always getting the shaft. Just when things were really moving with US, the merger happened. Then once AA got its footing and really starting expanding, the pandemic hit. Since then, the NEA was introduced with B6, attention was re-focused back to CLT/DFW/MIA, US legacy planes were retired, and now 1800 flights are cut the next two months because of shortages. It's really crappy how PHL is always at the mercy of AA, and although F9 and NK have built up sizable footprints, it's a bummer that we are often left in the dust as we watch our neighbors continue to thrive. Just my 2c.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5992
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:12 pm

aerace wrote:
I'm just sick of PHL always getting the shaft. Just when things were really moving with US, the merger happened. Then once AA got its footing and really starting expanding, the pandemic hit. Since then, the NEA was introduced with B6, attention was re-focused back to CLT/DFW/MIA, US legacy planes were retired, and now 1800 flights are cut the next two months because of shortages. It's really crappy how PHL is always at the mercy of AA, and although F9 and NK have built up sizable footprints, it's a bummer that we are often left in the dust as we watch our neighbors continue to thrive. Just my 2c.


Here are the Q1 2022 PDEW's of the top AA nonstop domestic routes out of PHL that don't currently have nonstop competition:
PHL-PHX - 409
PHL-SAN - 192
PHL-AUS - 157
PHL-IND - 107
PHL-EYW - 86
PHL-CMH - 79
PHL-PIT - 74
PHL-SDF - 60
PHL-MEM - 55
PHL-MKE - 55

PHX can likely support nonstop service out of PHL on a second airline with PHL-PHX having higher PDEW's than some of the routes out of PHL that are served nonstop by 2 or more airlines.

There is also room for DL or UA on the PHL-LAX route if NK PHL-LAX nonstop service gets dropped as a result of the B6-NK merger. The PDEW of PHL-Greater Los Angeles was 763 passengers/day in Q1 2022, and there are routes out of PHL to DL or UA hub cities that had lower PDEW's than PHL-Greater Los Angeles in Q1 2022.

While PHL already has nonstop service to SEA on AS in addition to AA, I previously mentioned the possibility of DL adding PHL-SEA nonstop service with PHL being one of the top domestic destinations traveled to from SEA that doesn't currently have DL nonstop service out of SEA along with the other competitive moves that DL has made against AA/AS.
 
lowfareair
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:37 pm

aerace wrote:
F9 and NK merger is off which I can only think will be a huge win for PHL for multiple reasons:
- B6 has to leave the NEA arrangement where it can be argued that AA focused expansion out of NYC/BOS over PHL because of B6 influence there.
- B6 has next to no presence in PHL but gains ~20 NK destinations out of PHL (with FLL being the sole overlap). F9 and NK overlapped on ~80% of routes.
- NK has stated there was more to come for PHL so hopefully B6 recognizes the opportunity here for continued expansion.


I'll come back to this discussion. My thoughts:
  • PHL wins with NK/B6 likely pulling back here and giving F9 room to grow into new destinations and potentially allowing Florida yields to increase to the point WN finally starts growing here again
  • PHL wins big if the NEA is disbanded as that likely forces AA to refocus here without the JFK connecting feed that B6 provides
  • PHL would have won big with F9/NK merging as this would likely become their major East Coast operation and I could have seen them jumping to Europe with 321XLRs (at least during the summer)
  • I don't see any way that B6 keeps a large operation here, regardless of the NEA outcome. They have too big of a hole in middle America that they need to plug and already have 2 NE hubs.
  • PHL is in jeopardy of losing more TATL flights if the NEA stays intact.
 
SimpleMan
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:38 pm

American Airlines is cutting more than 1,800 flights at Philadelphia International Airport this fall, as staff shortages persist amid the busy travel season.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/phl-airpo ... 20804.html
Hopefully just a staffing issue that will resolve itself.
 
sz1998
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:01 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
American Airlines is cutting more than 1,800 flights at Philadelphia International Airport this fall, as staff shortages persist amid the busy travel season.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/phl-airpo ... 20804.html
Hopefully just a staffing issue that will resolve itself.


Wow. Not looking good for AAs operations at PHL. Is any other AA hub getting cuts like this?
 
SimpleMan
Posts: 96
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:15 pm

sz1998 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
American Airlines is cutting more than 1,800 flights at Philadelphia International Airport this fall, as staff shortages persist amid the busy travel season.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/phl-airpo ... 20804.html
Hopefully just a staffing issue that will resolve itself.


Wow. Not looking good for AAs operations at PHL. Is any other AA hub getting cuts like this?

AA is not announcing other hub cuts.
In percentages at PHL -
"According to American, roughly 3% of its schedule there in September, or around 7 flights per day, and 5% of its schedule there in October, or around 13 flights per day."
 
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chepos
Posts: 7313
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:20 pm

SimpleMan wrote:
sz1998 wrote:
SimpleMan wrote:
American Airlines is cutting more than 1,800 flights at Philadelphia International Airport this fall, as staff shortages persist amid the busy travel season.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/phl-airpo ... 20804.html
Hopefully just a staffing issue that will resolve itself.


Wow. Not looking good for AAs operations at PHL. Is any other AA hub getting cuts like this?

AA is not announcing other hub cuts.
In percentages at PHL -
"According to American, roughly 3% of its schedule there in September, or around 7 flights per day, and 5% of its schedule there in October, or around 13 flights per day."


I think for September it is more like 18 daily departures a day (give or take), 18 arrivals a day (give or take) and about 13 daily departures in October. That was the break down based on the numbers I saw on the Biz Journal. Obviously, saying 1,800 flights in two montsh is more impactful and more dramatic of a headline.
 
flyboy7974
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:24 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:
aerace wrote:
Great to see a chunk of AA mainline flights returning for summer with some resumptions starting back Friday (alongside a new addition) while others are returning August. I counted the following via wiki..

June - CHS, MCI, PIT, PWM, STL, CLE, SRQ
August - CMH, IAH, PVD


That's a great sign to see.



Today was first time I've seen ML on a BHM roundtrip, baby bus out mid morning , back late evening.


And looking the baby bus is back on PHLIND every evening now.
 
crownvic
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:20 am

And I rest my case once again. AA is a disservice to PHL and it would be nice if somebody could just boot them out, but we know that this will not happen as there is really nobody left to do it. However, it would be nice if some of these international carriers would take over from AA. I remember when AA got the London routes from TWA back in 1990. They flew it one season and moved the rights to another city (that I cannot recall) screwing PHL.
 
B6SpiritofEWR
Posts: 57
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:03 pm

So as we all know there is definitely a ton of different things going on right now in the industry and not all will have good affects on PHL. But before I go into my breakdown of how I think things will play out for us, it is important to remember that all these companies may change hands and such, PHL’s demand will always be there and will grow further.

As for the B6/NK merger I think it will result in some losses for us but nothing too too terrible. For the combined carrier I could see them starting with 3x MCO, 4x FLL, 1x SJU, 2x LAX, 5x BOS, 2x LAS, 1x TPA, 1x MIA. This would definitely result in the loss of service to many cities that NK has now but I think F9 could potentially finally rise to the occasion. F9 will be facing a lot more pressure in cities like MCO/LAS/SOFLO so why not turn to PHL where they will have less competition? I’m already pretty impressed with F9’s planned December schedule. I see 50 flights a day for frontier in their future.

AA. This one has been a mess. Yes, while they have cut an extreme amount, I think it’s important to note how many cities are receiving mainline service like never before. So while departures are way down, seats are not AS far down. The 787 deliveries should be starting up soon so they will have the aircraft for next summer, this should be very good for us as I’m thinking we should receive 2-3 new transatlantic routes. Domestic feed routes will of course come with these.

Thanks for reading and definitely give me your feedback!
 
aerace
Posts: 266
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:30 pm

One thing to note, which I feel is a major sign of what’s hoping to come for PHL. Comcast announced a return to the office thrice weekly starting 9/12. 8K employees back to the two towers. Hopefully be the spark the city needs.

https://www.inquirer.com/business/comca ... utType=amp
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:42 pm

JL would be quite the get for PHL. In Boston, they were VERY reliable and consistent through the lean pandemic months. When other international airlines were acting like turtles, JAL kept sending its 789 to BOS practically every day. Japan is a pride-filled country and they’d be a great addition at PHL while AA seems fixated on European routes.
 
aerace
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:19 pm

flyboy7974 wrote:
flyboy7974 wrote:
Bigant0408 wrote:

That's a great sign to see.



Today was first time I've seen ML on a BHM roundtrip, baby bus out mid morning , back late evening.


And looking the baby bus is back on PHLIND every evening now.

I am wondering if some of these cuts have rendered upgauges in aircraft, since some of these destinations may be new to A319s...

SAV - 8/16 to 11/2
BUF - 8/16 to 9/6
BGR - 8/5 to 10/5
BDL - 8/5 to 11/2
MYR - 8/5 to 11/2
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 853
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 5:28 pm

As far as AA and PHL, I feel like events have hit it the hardest of any of the American hub operations. A major part of PHL's role in the AA system is supposed to be connecting smaller eastern and midwest markets to transatlantic destinations. It's hard to do so when there a) isn't enough regional flying capacity to go around, b) when AA has to disproportionately deploy a huge hunk of RJ flying to keep slots in JFK/LGA/DCA, and c) your sole supplier of transatlantic widebody aircraft frames has been so badly mismanaged that they are unable to deliver them. PHL's getting whacked by dynamics at both the top and bottom. At ORD, it's mostly just an RJ capacity crunch issue. PHL will start to look better next summer with more 787s on the way that need to be fed by the Eagle network.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5992
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:09 pm

Bigant0408 wrote:
BENFRANKLIN wrote:
since the thread has been quiet.. if you had to choose a new Carrier at kphl… who would it be? A new European airline? Middle East? Asia? interested what everyone is thinking


I would choose Japan Airlines. Europe in general is mostly covered granted competition for lower prices would be great, PHL IMO needs services service to Asia


chrisnh wrote:
JL would be quite the get for PHL. In Boston, they were VERY reliable and consistent through the lean pandemic months. When other international airlines were acting like turtles, JAL kept sending its 789 to BOS practically every day. Japan is a pride-filled country and they’d be a great addition at PHL while AA seems fixated on European routes.


I agree that JL adding PHL-NRT nonstop service is a possibility if enough demand to Asia is there from PHL as there would be connecting opportunities available on both ends of PHL-NRT route if PHL-NRT nonstop service is added by JL.
 
B752OS
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:06 pm

Does the proximity to EWR/JFK and BWI/IAD have a large impact on PHL in terms of international service? Philadelphia's metro area has a population of more than 6.2 million people, and yet there are only 4 international carriers that currently serve PHL. I understand that AA has a pretty good sized network to places like YYZ, YUL, FCO, MAD, MBJ, LHR, etc. Or is the makeup of the economy in the Philadelphia area not really prone to travel and that plays a role in this?

ATL is roughly the same sized metro area and they have 11 foreign carriers that serve the airport.
 
crownvic
Posts: 3068
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:38 am

B752OS wrote:
Does the proximity to EWR/JFK and BWI/IAD have a large impact on PHL in terms of international service? Philadelphia's metro area has a population of more than 6.2 million people, and yet there are only 4 international carriers that currently serve PHL. I understand that AA has a pretty good sized network to places like YYZ, YUL, FCO, MAD, MBJ, LHR, etc. Or is the makeup of the economy in the Philadelphia area not really prone to travel and that plays a role in this?

ATL is roughly the same sized metro area and they have 11 foreign carriers that serve the airport.


While the proximity issue definitely has an impact, it is a problem that has existed for an eternity even back to the 60s. As international growth took off in the NYC, BOS and the D.C. area, it floundered at PHL. I have written this several times on this site over the past 20 years. Alitalia came and went, Swissair came and went and Air France came and went three times while the only long haul carrier to get any kind of foothold in PHL is BA. Although LH has been there since the 1960s, aside from dropping the BOS/Montreal stop and going nonstop, it has never developed more than a single daily nonstop and even that schedule seasonally adjusts. The only reason EI succeeds is because they're using a small aircraft.

As I have pointed out, something is just not right at PHL and if I could blame one common factor, it is the city. Perhaps, had the airport been privatized, it would have fared better? As I also mentioned, USAir/Airways had things going on the right track, but AA has picked it apart. The city has no worse of an identity crisis than any other big city in America. They all have the same problems, yet even cities with huge problems still have airports that thrive. I never thought I would say this because of all the delays this airport had when it was bursting at the seams, but the airport is now underutilized in both passenger and cargo service.
 
IndianicWorld
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:21 am

crownvic wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Does the proximity to EWR/JFK and BWI/IAD have a large impact on PHL in terms of international service? Philadelphia's metro area has a population of more than 6.2 million people, and yet there are only 4 international carriers that currently serve PHL. I understand that AA has a pretty good sized network to places like YYZ, YUL, FCO, MAD, MBJ, LHR, etc. Or is the makeup of the economy in the Philadelphia area not really prone to travel and that plays a role in this?

ATL is roughly the same sized metro area and they have 11 foreign carriers that serve the airport.


While the proximity issue definitely has an impact, it is a problem that has existed for an eternity even back to the 60s. As international growth took off in the NYC, BOS and the D.C. area, it floundered at PHL. I have written this several times on this site over the past 20 years. Alitalia came and went, Swissair came and went and Air France came and went three times while the only long haul carrier to get any kind of foothold in PHL is BA. Although LH has been there since the 1960s, aside from dropping the BOS/Montreal stop and going nonstop, it has never developed more than a single daily nonstop and even that schedule seasonally adjusts. The only reason EI succeeds is because they're using a small aircraft.

As I have pointed out, something is just not right at PHL and if I could blame one common factor, it is the city. Perhaps, had the airport been privatized, it would have fared better? As I also mentioned, USAir/Airways had things going on the right track, but AA has picked it apart. The city has no worse of an identity crisis than any other big city in America. They all have the same problems, yet even cities with huge problems still have airports that thrive. I never thought I would say this because of all the delays this airport had when it was bursting at the seams, but the airport is now underutilized in both passenger and cargo service.


I think it’s a combination of factors.

The location between 2 major cities (NYC and DC) means that airlines choose to focus on higher demand from those airports instead.

PHL is also not a city that appears to have a lot of global reach in terms of companies based there, and tends to be more focused on domestic business from what I can see. Finding ways to strengthen this may help build the appeal for more service.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Aug 06, 2022 6:12 am

crownvic wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
I love Philly and South Jersey and my time living there and family history there, but to be a Debbie downer why would FI fly BWI and PHL? For them it is nearly the same market. Precovid targeting Asia would be helpful though as the recovery there stays slow that will take years. Best bet is AA connecting more dots in Europe again IMO, or a Caribbean airline. YMMV of course.


Not sure I totally agree. While the catchment area SW of PHL like Wilmington or deep southern PA will go to BWI, I highly doubt there is much of anything north or east of PHL including all of NJ that would go to BWI. It is just too far by car.

Honestly, I have given up after more than 60 years trying to figure out what PHL's problem is attracting foreign carriers. It is the largest city in the U.S., with the least amount of foreign carriers. Honestly, the only bright spot this city had in my lifetime, was USAir/Airways. They did a great job going from a small regional airline, to an impressive international operation that was growing by leaps and bounds. USAir was the airline that finally put PHL on the world map. For those that lived in this area, it was very promising. Sadly, since AA has taken over, it has reverted back to the "red headed stepchild" of its past. We can blame COVID, 787 delays, crew and staffing shortages or whatever else, but the city just seems to suffer from an identity crisis that goes back for many decades and has become AA's lowest priority hub.The city is in need of an aggressive sales and marketing group that will go out and give the store away to attract some more foreign carriers and it should be at AA's expense. AA has become a disservice to PHL with its high fare structure and limited schedule compared to their other hubs. Sadly, UA at EWR is too close, while DL tried LHR/CDG with little fanfare pre-COVID. You would think this would open opportunities for these European carriers to step in, but they have not. Again, the city needs to do a better job in its marketing efforts.

PHL is my Home Town, But? PHL is a one Runway airport boxed in and pretty much not Expandable as they would need to tear down parts of Chester to do it. And? Why would Chester agree to something like that?
 
crownvic
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Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:21 am

strfyr51 wrote:
crownvic wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
I love Philly and South Jersey and my time living there and family history there, but to be a Debbie downer why would FI fly BWI and PHL? For them it is nearly the same market. Precovid targeting Asia would be helpful though as the recovery there stays slow that will take years. Best bet is AA connecting more dots in Europe again IMO, or a Caribbean airline. YMMV of course.


Not sure I totally agree. While the catchment area SW of PHL like Wilmington or deep southern PA will go to BWI, I highly doubt there is much of anything north or east of PHL including all of NJ that would go to BWI. It is just too far by car.

Honestly, I have given up after more than 60 years trying to figure out what PHL's problem is attracting foreign carriers. It is the largest city in the U.S., with the least amount of foreign carriers. Honestly, the only bright spot this city had in my lifetime, was USAir/Airways. They did a great job going from a small regional airline, to an impressive international operation that was growing by leaps and bounds. USAir was the airline that finally put PHL on the world map. For those that lived in this area, it was very promising. Sadly, since AA has taken over, it has reverted back to the "red headed stepchild" of its past. We can blame COVID, 787 delays, crew and staffing shortages or whatever else, but the city just seems to suffer from an identity crisis that goes back for many decades and has become AA's lowest priority hub.The city is in need of an aggressive sales and marketing group that will go out and give the store away to attract some more foreign carriers and it should be at AA's expense. AA has become a disservice to PHL with its high fare structure and limited schedule compared to their other hubs. Sadly, UA at EWR is too close, while DL tried LHR/CDG with little fanfare pre-COVID. You would think this would open opportunities for these European carriers to step in, but they have not. Again, the city needs to do a better job in its marketing efforts.

PHL is my Home Town, But? PHL is a one Runway airport boxed in and pretty much not Expandable as they would need to tear down parts of Chester to do it. And? Why would Chester agree to something like that?


I grew up there and spent many frustrating years wanting more international service. Although PHL is boxed in, so are many other airports in NE and this was only a factor during the "booming" days. The runways at EWR are probably worse, yet they get plenty of int'l carriers. LHR only has two runways and they manage. Sorry, but the runway argument is no longer an issue, with the amount of traffic they now have. I remember the old days of going in and out of PHL and it was normal to be # 10, 20 or 30 for take off sitting in rows of planes. My last few flights in there, the place looked like a ghost town even at the 4pm "prime time".
 
crownvic
Posts: 3068
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:32 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
crownvic wrote:
B752OS wrote:
Does the proximity to EWR/JFK and BWI/IAD have a large impact on PHL in terms of international service? Philadelphia's metro area has a population of more than 6.2 million people, and yet there are only 4 international carriers that currently serve PHL. I understand that AA has a pretty good sized network to places like YYZ, YUL, FCO, MAD, MBJ, LHR, etc. Or is the makeup of the economy in the Philadelphia area not really prone to travel and that plays a role in this?

ATL is roughly the same sized metro area and they have 11 foreign carriers that serve the airport.


While the proximity issue definitely has an impact, it is a problem that has existed for an eternity even back to the 60s. As international growth took off in the NYC, BOS and the D.C. area, it floundered at PHL. I have written this several times on this site over the past 20 years. Alitalia came and went, Swissair came and went and Air France came and went three times while the only long haul carrier to get any kind of foothold in PHL is BA. Although LH has been there since the 1960s, aside from dropping the BOS/Montreal stop and going nonstop, it has never developed more than a single daily nonstop and even that schedule seasonally adjusts. The only reason EI succeeds is because they're using a small aircraft.

As I have pointed out, something is just not right at PHL and if I could blame one common factor, it is the city. Perhaps, had the airport been privatized, it would have fared better? As I also mentioned, USAir/Airways had things going on the right track, but AA has picked it apart. The city has no worse of an identity crisis than any other big city in America. They all have the same problems, yet even cities with huge problems still have airports that thrive. I never thought I would say this because of all the delays this airport had when it was bursting at the seams, but the airport is now underutilized in both passenger and cargo service.


I think it’s a combination of factors.

The location between 2 major cities (NYC and DC) means that airlines choose to focus on higher demand from those airports instead.

PHL is also not a city that appears to have a lot of global reach in terms of companies based there, and tends to be more focused on domestic business from what I can see. Finding ways to strengthen this may help build the appeal for more service.


There you go. The airport is run by the city and city is run by the city. A common denominator as to why both have an identity crisis. Philly is a great city for those who know its positives (food, entertainment, sports, etc.), but it has been marred in corruption for many years especially during the 1960s/70s. I am trying not to be political, but it does have huge problems brought on by itself (like so many other American cities). The city has failed to capitalize on the positive things it can offer. The mentality of the city is, the status quo is good enough and they have not done a good job attracting tourists or businesses. Even their ports along the Delaware River with direct access to the Atlantic Ocean have been poorly developed. When Philly is in the news, it is rarely for a good reason anymore.
 
Zbogart757
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 am

Re: Philadelphia Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:54 pm

By the end of the year or early next year PHL should have a new master plan out, it’s gonna be interesting to see what ideas and concepts they will have incorporated in this. I think a complete overhaul like how LGA did might be necessary. And I know runway 8-26 is mostly used for GA aircraft but is it truly needed anymore? Where a terminal expansion could be placed there for a replacement for D/E and then reconstruct where the current ones are. Obviously this is all hypothetical but something needs to change or PHL is going to be consistently left flat footed.
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