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SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun May 15, 2022 5:29 pm

Web wrote:
NoahV37 wrote:
MKG currently has one airline bidding for EAS. Southern Airways Express has given two offers:
MKG-ORD 30x Weekly for $1,040,000
or
MKG-ORD 36x Weekly for $1,248,000

Houghton has not had any bids yet.

Surprised Cape Air hasn't bid for MKG, as it would fit in nicely with their ORD-MBL route.

Not surprised no one is springing for CMX; it's quite remote. A MSP connection would make the most sense, but I don't see any established MSP EAS carrier (Boutique or DAC) bidding for it with overall airline staffing as tight as it is.


Cape is having pilot issues right now and said they won’t be bidding for any of the 29 cities SkyWest is dropping.

But, I am surprised that Boutique didn’t bid for Muskegon or even Manistee for that matter.
 
kavok
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 4:42 pm

With the schedule update this weekend, DL has AZO, LAN, & MBS all down to 2x daily to DTW on CRJs for most of July and August.

At some point, do those services become too infrequent that they no longer make sense? Bigger picture, should DL consider contracted bus service (like AA/UA)? For a passenger, it would seem that 5x (or more) daily service on a bus is probably better than 2x daily on a CR2. Especially if IRROPS come into play.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 7:05 pm

The attrition at the regionals is killing off CR2 service rapidly. The staffing shortages are hitting mainline and the regionals alike hard for this summer.
They are obviously concentrating their scare resources on staffing the larger RJ flying, and are pulling down CR2 flying.

2x daily I am sure they will fill almost every seat. It works for non-time sensitive / schedule specific flyers. Doesn't bode well those for those who need to travel at specific times.
I think ideally they would like to fly these routes optimally at 4x daily on 2-class RJs.

Hard to say if the staffing situation will resolve itself much by 2023 or not. I know the regionals are trying to hire like crazy but there is a backlog to get new hire FOs through training, meanwhile CAs are leave in droves for the majors/LCC/ULCC.
 
jplatts
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 8:36 pm

kavok wrote:
With the schedule update this weekend, DL has AZO, LAN, & MBS all down to 2x daily to DTW on CRJs for most of July and August.

At some point, do those services become too infrequent that they no longer make sense? Bigger picture, should DL consider contracted bus service (like AA/UA)? For a passenger, it would seem that 5x (or more) daily service on a bus is probably better than 2x daily on a CR2. Especially if IRROPS come into play.


Some of the travelers in the Kalamazoo area would be willing to drive to GRR, which is a 50 minute drive from Downtown Kalamazoo. GRR also has far more flights than AZO does (plus service on UA/WN/G4/F9 that AZO doesn't have).
 
drdisque
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue May 24, 2022 9:55 pm

Also, the future of a station like MBS is probably 2x large RJ. So this is a trial to see how well that schedule works. That's the schedule that UA uses right now as well at MBS.
 
kavok
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 1:23 am

drdisque wrote:
Also, the future of a station like MBS is probably 2x large RJ. So this is a trial to see how well that schedule works. That's the schedule that UA uses right now as well at MBS.


Ultimately, I just can’t see the 2x daily being sustainable/worthwhile long term. At only 2x daily, going to/from AZO, MBS, LAN… there just ends up being too many routes that can only be achieved with at least one of the legs having a 5+ hour layover in DTW. It works for the EAS airports in Northern Michigan because they are all a 4+ hour drive anyway, which makes a 5 hour layover less painful comparatively. But unless someone loves the SkyClub, they aren’t going to choose to sit in DTW for 5 hours waiting for one of two daily flights, when they can drive to AZO/LAN/MBS in 2 hours or less.

The pax flying out of AZO/LAN/MBS are almost all traveling on someone’s else’s dime. Which means their time is valuable, and they are using the small local airport for convenience. When the layover gets to be 5+ hour long, it is no longer more convenient compared to driving to DTW. I get the staffing shortages and why it must be done…. but I think at some point a 5x (or more)daily bus service is better for the pax (and probably DL too) if the situation allows only 2x daily frequencies long term.
 
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JBo
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 2:14 am

jplatts wrote:
kavok wrote:
With the schedule update this weekend, DL has AZO, LAN, & MBS all down to 2x daily to DTW on CRJs for most of July and August.

At some point, do those services become too infrequent that they no longer make sense? Bigger picture, should DL consider contracted bus service (like AA/UA)? For a passenger, it would seem that 5x (or more) daily service on a bus is probably better than 2x daily on a CR2. Especially if IRROPS come into play.


Some of the travelers in the Kalamazoo area would be willing to drive to GRR, which is a 50 minute drive from Downtown Kalamazoo. GRR also has far more flights than AZO does (plus service on UA/WN/G4/F9 that AZO doesn't have).


LAN isn't that far from GRR, either.
 
KarlB737
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 12:14 pm

kavok wrote:
........should DL consider contracted bus service.......


What bus service would you contract? Speaking of frequencies how many buses per day would you or could you schedule? With fuel prices climbing how long before bus routes have to be curtailed to compensate bringing you right back to where you were in the beginning of the problem. More thought I think needs to be given regarding the realities of bus service before a decision is made.
 
kavok
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 2:32 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
kavok wrote:
........should DL consider contracted bus service.......


What bus service would you contract? Speaking of frequencies how many buses per day would you or could you schedule? With fuel prices climbing how long before bus routes have to be curtailed to compensate bringing you right back to where you were in the beginning of the problem. More thought I think needs to be given regarding the realities of bus service before a decision is made.


Landline is the company that is contracted by both AA and UA to offer their bus service at PHL and DEN respectively. I am not saying it would have to be them, but clearly they have the business logistics figured out. Or some other company with a similar business model could also be contracted instead.

Rising fuel prices is mostly a moot issue. Most people who fly from AZO/LAN/MBS aren’t very price sensitive, else they’d make the drive to DTW/ORD/GRR/etc where the cost is almost always lower. Pax use the AZO/LAN/MBS airports for convenience, over making the drive. My point again is when the schedule drops to 2x daily, it is no longer more convenient if that involves an inevitable 5+ hour DTW layover. A bus that operates at least 5x daily returns that convenience.

And before someone mentions the Michigan Flyer bus, the two big issues with that service are 1) lack of IRROPS protection, and 2) no perks to entice DL frequent flyers. I will also add the Michigan Flyer schedule could be improved to have a late night bus that picks up people arriving at DTW in the 9-10pm bank, and also pax on delayed arriving flights. But that is an issue they could fix without a DL “partnership”. The other less discussed issue is that Michigan Flyer and the Wayne County Airport Authority probably aren’t on the best of terms given the lawsuits between them over the years. But that is another discussion.

I know, this is an aviation site so arguing for bus service over RJs is very much against the grain. But IF Delta was willing to partner with a bus operator with 5+ daily service frequency to DTW, offer IRROPS protection, and include some FF perks by treating it as a “flight”,… it might be a win for the pax and DL. The Landline service in PHL and DEN basically charge $50/60 RT on top of what the cost would be to fly from PHL/DEN directly. That is sustainable, and in line with (if not cheaper) than what the markup is to fly a RJ from AZO/LAN/MBS to DTW.

Again, the business case is there. The unknowns are 1) is DL willing to follow AA/UA and have essentially subcontracted busses. And 2) what political pushback is there from the local airport authorities and smaller communities who essentially lose service to busses, even if the busses better serves the pax going to/from there.
 
kavok
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed May 25, 2022 3:06 pm

JBo wrote:
jplatts wrote:
kavok wrote:
With the schedule update this weekend, DL has AZO, LAN, & MBS all down to 2x daily to DTW on CRJs for most of July and August.

At some point, do those services become too infrequent that they no longer make sense? Bigger picture, should DL consider contracted bus service (like AA/UA)? For a passenger, it would seem that 5x (or more) daily service on a bus is probably better than 2x daily on a CR2. Especially if IRROPS come into play.


Some of the travelers in the Kalamazoo area would be willing to drive to GRR, which is a 50 minute drive from Downtown Kalamazoo. GRR also has far more flights than AZO does (plus service on UA/WN/G4/F9 that AZO doesn't have).


LAN isn't that far from GRR, either.


True, there are obviously plenty of other nearby drivable airports. But again, the reason people fly out of AZO/LAN/MBS is mostly for convenience, not cost or schedule. So even though it might cost more to fly DL on LAN-DTW-XXX, vs just DTW-XXX, some pax are willing to pay more for the convenience.

But once that convenience is taken away, and pax are forced to drive to DTW, GRR, (or MDW/ORD from AZO),… then at that point the pax could choose from a whole bunch of airlines, many of which could have more convenient schedules than DL. At AZO & LAN, the only two choices are DL or AA. But there are many choices at the other nearby larger airports. My point is more that if DL is forcing the pax to drive elsewhere, they also may be pushing them to fly another carrier as well.

And that is the other benefit to DL of bus service. If DL operates frequent bus service to LAN that is convenient, they actually may be picking up new customers, who would otherwise be driving to GRR and flying UA or WN.
 
NoahV37
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri May 27, 2022 2:10 am

Boutique submitted a bid for CMX. They want for $5,587,233 for the first year and $5,698,977 for the second year. They will offer 24 weekly flights to MSP onboard the PC-12
 
NoahV37
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:46 am

United is operating a B737 on GRR-EWR until next Wednesday for some reason. Has UA ever used mainline on this route?
 
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kitplane01
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:50 am

Delta has dropped Marquette -> Minneapolis. Marquette is right between the hubs of Detroit and Minneapolis and now only one is accessable.

Has traffic out of Marquette dropped? Why did this happen?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:05 am

kitplane01 wrote:
Delta has dropped Marquette -> Minneapolis. Marquette is right between the hubs of Detroit and Minneapolis and now only one is accessable.

Has traffic out of Marquette dropped? Why did this happen?

The most likely reason is the dire staffing situation at the regionals and having to pare back to the core.
In a perfect world they may want to serve both but Skywest is struggle to staff pilots anywhere near the amount of flying that DL wants capacity-wise and/or they could fly at-risk.
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:21 pm

NoahV37 wrote:
United is operating a B737 on GRR-EWR until next Wednesday for some reason. Has UA ever used mainline on this route?


Not that I can recall, and I've lived in the area since 1982. Unfortunately short lived, but perhaps it will be extended. Loads look decent, some better than others. This morning's GRR-EWR only had 10 open seats, so 116 pax. I wonder if the shortage of express pilots may have UA swapping mainline for express where loads are good. Also, GRR-IAD went away pushing more pax through EWR.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:34 pm

I was going to say with how UA has restructured some of the UAX flying out of IAD that has pushed some more eastbound flow over EWR and some upgauging
 
umichman
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:52 pm

UA793/350 mainline between EWR and GRR is actually scheduled to operate for 10 days (3rd - 14th) before revert back to regionals.
 
NoahV37
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:10 am

Load Factors during January 2022 for GRR
American
DFW: 83%
MIA: 82%
CLT: 78%
ORD: 72%
PHX: 65%
DCA: 62%
PHL: 59%

Allegiant
AUS: 90% (Only 1 trip each way)
AZA: 88%
LAX: 86% (Only 1 trip each way)
SFB: 86%
PIE 86%
PGD: 84%
SRQ: 84%
BOS: 74% (Only 1 trip each way)
FLL: 73%
LAS: 70%
BNA: 66% (Only 1 trip each way)
VPS: 45%

Delta:
ATL: 76%
DTW: 71%
MSP: 69%
LGA: 45%

Frontier
RSW: 78%
DEN: 72% (Only 2 trips each way)
MCO: 80%
TPA: 60%

Southwest
RSW: 94%
MCO: 80%
DEN: 80%
TPA: 66%
MDW: 66%
BWI: 52%

United
IAH: 84%
DEN: 79%
ORD: 76%
IAD: 67%
EWR: 63%

Skywest
ORD: 70%
 
NoahV37
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:12 am

Load Factors for February 2022 at GRR
American:
CLT: 90%
MIA: 89%
PHX: 88%
DFW: 88%
ORD: 81%
DCA: 79%
PHL: 76%

Allegiant:
SFB: 94%
AZA: 93%
PGD: 93%
PIE: 93%
SRQ: 90%
FLL: 89%
LAS: 80%
VPS: 71%
JAX: 63% (79% outbound, 46% inbound)

Delta:
ATL: 90%
MSP: 82%
DTW: 79%
LGA: 68%

Frontier:
RSW: 95%
MCO: 94%
TPA: 83%

Southwest
RSW: 97%
MCO: 91%
DEN: 89%
MDW: 77%
BWI: 65%

United:
IAH: 92%
DEN: 90%
IAD: 86%
ORD: 86%
EWR: 60%

Skywest:
ORD: 84%
 
flyboyrj
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:27 am

Just curious: Where do you find those load numbers at?
 
flyboyrj
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:30 am

drdisque wrote:
Also, the future of a station like MBS is probably 2x large RJ. So this is a trial to see how well that schedule works. That's the schedule that UA uses right now as well at MBS.


Wish DL would return to FNT or at least add a ATL run to MBS or LAN. Double connecting isn’t fun!
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:11 pm

I'd wager to say GRR-RSW will return next season on WN and F9. Maybe add some frequency too (fingers crossed.) PGD looks strong for G4 as well. Definitely demand from West Mich.to SW Florida.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:27 am

How soon will we know which carrier(s) will be serving MKG & MBL?
 
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kitplane01
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:57 pm

NoahV37 wrote:
Load Factors for February 2022 at GRR
American:
CLT: 90%
MIA: 89%
PHX: 88%
DFW: 88%
ORD: 81%
DCA: 79%
PHL: 76%

Allegiant:
SFB: 94%
AZA: 93%
PGD: 93%
PIE: 93%
SRQ: 90%
FLL: 89%
LAS: 80%
VPS: 71%
JAX: 63% (79% outbound, 46% inbound)

Delta:
ATL: 90%
MSP: 82%
DTW: 79%
LGA: 68%

Frontier:
RSW: 95%
MCO: 94%
TPA: 83%

Southwest
RSW: 97%
MCO: 91%
DEN: 89%
MDW: 77%
BWI: 65%

United:
IAH: 92%
DEN: 90%
IAD: 86%
ORD: 86%
EWR: 60%

Skywest:
ORD: 84%


Would it be possible to get data for KSAW? Thanks
 
NoahV37
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:22 am

kitplane01 wrote:
NoahV37 wrote:
Load Factors for February 2022 at GRR
American:
CLT: 90%
MIA: 89%
PHX: 88%
DFW: 88%
ORD: 81%
DCA: 79%
PHL: 76%

Allegiant:
SFB: 94%
AZA: 93%
PGD: 93%
PIE: 93%
SRQ: 90%
FLL: 89%
LAS: 80%
VPS: 71%
JAX: 63% (79% outbound, 46% inbound)

Delta:
ATL: 90%
MSP: 82%
DTW: 79%
LGA: 68%

Frontier:
RSW: 95%
MCO: 94%
TPA: 83%

Southwest
RSW: 97%
MCO: 91%
DEN: 89%
MDW: 77%
BWI: 65%

United:
IAH: 92%
DEN: 90%
IAD: 86%
ORD: 86%
EWR: 60%

Skywest:
ORD: 84%


Would it be possible to get data for KSAW? Thanks


Here they are for Marquette
American
January- ORD- 54%
February- ORD- 71%

Delta
January- DTW- 62% MSP- 77% (Only 5 flights each way)
February- DTW- 74%

flyboyrj wrote:
Just curious: Where do you find those load numbers at?

http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/F4SDetailQuery#SUBMIT
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:00 am

Jan-Feb while interesting are at the lowest travel period of the year (post holiday Jan through presidents weekend). Plus Jan was hit disproportionately by the impact of Omnicron. There was a lot of excess capacity flying around then versus actual demand.

You can’t infer much from that other than that p2p routes with high LF is a good thing. The bar on routes to hubS tends to be lower they can accept lower LF but with higher yields
 
airtran737
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sun Jun 12, 2022 2:07 am

umichman wrote:
UA793/350 mainline between EWR and GRR is actually scheduled to operate for 10 days (3rd - 14th) before revert back to regionals.


I wish it would continue. As an EWR United pilot, this thing is much better for me than an RJ.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:35 am

NoahV37 wrote:
kitplane01 wrote:
NoahV37 wrote:
Load Factors for February 2022 at GRR
American:
CLT: 90%
MIA: 89%
PHX: 88%
DFW: 88%
ORD: 81%
DCA: 79%
PHL: 76%

Allegiant:
SFB: 94%
AZA: 93%
PGD: 93%
PIE: 93%
SRQ: 90%
FLL: 89%
LAS: 80%
VPS: 71%
JAX: 63% (79% outbound, 46% inbound)

Delta:
ATL: 90%
MSP: 82%
DTW: 79%
LGA: 68%

Frontier:
RSW: 95%
MCO: 94%
TPA: 83%

Southwest
RSW: 97%
MCO: 91%
DEN: 89%
MDW: 77%
BWI: 65%

United:
IAH: 92%
DEN: 90%
IAD: 86%
ORD: 86%
EWR: 60%

Skywest:
ORD: 84%


Would it be possible to get data for KSAW? Thanks


Here they are for Marquette
American
January- ORD- 54%
February- ORD- 71%

Delta
January- DTW- 62% MSP- 77% (Only 5 flights each way)
February- DTW- 74%

flyboyrj wrote:
Just curious: Where do you find those load numbers at?

http://aviationdb.net/aviationdb/F4SDetailQuery#SUBMIT


Much Thanks
 
NoahV37
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:57 pm

AA is ending FNT-CLT flights after Labor Day. The last flight is September 6. It’s sad to see this route be cut.
 
DaveMetroD
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:55 pm

American flight Chicago-Buffalo diverted Friday night(July 9) to Grand Rapids due to smoke in the cockpit.
All ended well. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2022/07/09/american-flight-emergency-landing-grand-rapids/10020814002/
 
DaveMetroD
Posts: 188
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:28 pm

DaveMetroD wrote:
American flight Chicago-Buffalo diverted Friday night(July 9) to Grand Rapids due to smoke in the cockpit.
All ended well. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2022/07/09/american-flight-emergency-landing-grand-rapids/10020814002/


Beyond edit time. Make that Friday night, July 8.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:09 am

NoahV37 wrote:
AA is ending FNT-CLT flights after Labor Day. The last flight is September 6. It’s sad to see this route be cut.

Not surprised…AA is cutting RJ routes all over the place come September.

I would not be surprised for AA to completely pull out of FNT in the not so distant future. I think they will keep LAN but pull out of FNT
 
kavok
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:18 pm

New air service announcement tomorrow for LAN airport:

https://twitter.com/flylansing/status/1 ... sr7TW8j20w
 
NoahV37
Posts: 41
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:52 am

On a thread discussing this topic, Avelo has been mentioned. Other than Sun country, I don’t see anyone else coming.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1475197&p=23398341#p23398341
 
flyinryan99
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:39 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NoahV37 wrote:
AA is ending FNT-CLT flights after Labor Day. The last flight is September 6. It’s sad to see this route be cut.

Not surprised…AA is cutting RJ routes all over the place come September.

I would not be surprised for AA to completely pull out of FNT in the not so distant future. I think they will keep LAN but pull out of FNT

The only reason they are keeping LAN is the AIR 21 slot to DCA. AZO and FNT have to be on notice after what else is going on with the AA.
 
Midwestfly
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:25 pm

New Lansing Air Service: Avelo to Orlando Starting 10/26
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Tue Jul 26, 2022 1:34 pm

Midwestfly wrote:
New Lansing Air Service: Avelo to Orlando Starting 10/26


2X per week- eventually Sundays and Thursdays. Bookable at Aveloair.com
 
KarlB737
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:59 pm

Midwestfly wrote:
New Lansing Air Service: Avelo to Orlando Starting 10/26


Courtesy: Lansing State Journal

Direct flights from Lansing to Orlando to begin later this year

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2022/07/26/orlando-flights-lansing-capital-region-international-airport-avelo-airlines/10145245002/
 
Midwestfly
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:25 pm

So how do we think this will go for Lansing. I like that days and timing. Prices look good right now. Does Delta counter with anything?
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:29 pm

Midwestfly wrote:
So how do we think this will go for Lansing. I like that days and timing. Prices look good right now. Does Delta counter with anything?


Maybe G4 offering some bargain basement fares to SFB out of FNT and GRR? I can't see Delta reacting to 2x/ week ULCC flights to MCO, and they have many loyal SkyMiles customers in the region.
 
NoahV37
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Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:30 pm

Kalamazoo just posted that they have an announcement tomorrow. I have a feeling this is also Avelo.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5863
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:34 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
Midwestfly wrote:
Does Delta counter with anything?


I can't see Delta reacting to 2x/ week ULCC flights to MCO, and they have many loyal SkyMiles customers in the region.


I agree that DL would probably never add LAN-MCO nonstop service, even with the XP LAN-MCO add. There are also some other smaller Midwestern markets such as ATW, BMI, CID, FAR, FWA, GFK, GRB, MLI, PIA, RFD, FSD, SBD, SGF, and TVC that already have nonstop service to the MCO/SFB market on at least one ULCC on at least a seasonal, less-than-daily basis.

CVG is the only non-DL hub airport in the Midwest that has DL nonstop service to MCO, but CVG was a former hub for DL.
 
Midwestfly
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:23 pm

jplatts wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
Midwestfly wrote:
Does Delta counter with anything?


I can't see Delta reacting to 2x/ week ULCC flights to MCO, and they have many loyal SkyMiles customers in the region.


I agree that DL would probably never add LAN-MCO nonstop service, even with the XP LAN-MCO add. There are also some other smaller Midwestern markets such as ATW, BMI, CID, FAR, FWA, GFK, GRB, MLI, PIA, RFD, FSD, SBD, SGF, and TVC that already have nonstop service to the MCO/SFB market on at least one ULCC on at least a seasonal, less-than-daily basis.

CVG is the only non-DL hub airport in the Midwest that has DL nonstop service to MCO, but CVG was a former hub for DL.


I should have asked my question more clearly. Would Delta do anything price wise on a LAN > DTW > MCO routing?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 9498
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:52 pm

No.....'cuz they can sell DTW-MCO nonstops for $500+ r/t all winter long, and $800+ on peak mid-winter and spring break Saturdays. (F seats regularly go for $1000-1200 during this period).
DL spills ULCC traffic all over the place by design.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:02 pm

Yeah, XP isn't going to be going after folks that fly DL, they're going to take from people in Mid-Michigan who fly G4 from FNT/GRR or NK/F9 from DTW.
 
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flymco753
Posts: 3681
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:04 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
No.....'cuz they can sell DTW-MCO nonstops for $500+ r/t all winter long, and $800+ on peak mid-winter and spring break Saturdays. (F seats regularly go for $1000-1200 during this period).
DL spills ULCC traffic all over the place by design.
WN does that with DTW-MCO and flies it Saturday only. Difference is WN uses their largest aircraft while DL tries to shove thousands of passengers daily onto sardine can 737-900s so they can use the 757-300s in Atlanta.
 
TryToFlySomeday
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:51 pm

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:17 pm

NoahV37 wrote:
Kalamazoo just posted that they have an announcement tomorrow. I have a feeling this is also Avelo.

I'm guessing AZO-MCO?

I'm selfishly hoping for AA to expand at AZO, either by putting more frequency into ORD or by adding a different hub destination (I know CLT was floated around as a possibility last year). I know my hope is probably a lost cause though with all the shortages in the industry and with GRR doing just twenty times better.

(But, better MCO than nothing.)
 
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JBo
Posts: 1928
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:29 pm

SkyVoice wrote:
How soon will we know which carrier(s) will be serving MKG & MBL?


As far as MKG goes, the County board supports the Southern Airways proposal, but the DOT has not made an official decision yet, and issued an order just today extending SkyWest's service obligation for MKG and 15 other cities for another 30 days.

As for MBL, the DOT on June 28th awarded Cape Air a two-year contract to continue service to ORD.
 
AntonioMartin
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:03 pm

KarlB737 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Both FNT and GRR also have service on G4 (plus F9 and WN also serving GRR in addition to the US3 and G4).


Clearly FNT and GRR are attracting more fliers to the extent that they have attracted additional airlines whereas AZO and LAN have not.

LAN will get Avelo through....
 
NoahV37
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:53 am

Re: The Rest of Michigan Aviation Thread - 2022

Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:02 pm

Kalamazoo also gets Avelo twice weekly to Orlando. Flights begin October 26.

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