Welcome to the Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread 2022. Please continue your discussion and to post your updates below.

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Greensboro (GSO) Aviation Thread - 2021

Boom Supersonic officially coming to GSO.

https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina/ ... l-airport/

Just another side note. GSO lost BNA service on Allegiant.

Another nail in the coffin

March:
Greensboro down to 1x per day to DTW on Delta
IAD gone on United

Allegiant Orlando Sanford flight loads lagging to the schedule. That could go soon. My guess is the smart money is Allegiant leaves GSO to focus on Concord.

norcarolinian wrote:

Boom Supersonic officially coming to GSO.

https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina/ ... l-airport/

Anyone have a diagram/map showing how the factory will be laid out on the airfield?

gsoflyer wrote:

March:
IAD gone on United

Man, death of the 50 seat RJ is really eliminating what little service United had to GSO. Guess our hope of some IAH-GSO love is even more of a pipe dream now.

Further United resignation to the AA/Delta and such a long ways from the glory days of United 752s/320s and Continental 733/735s.

I thought IAD is just a temporary cut until the pilot shortage gets back to normal?

I wonder if Delta DTW 1x is just temporary?

Also, hoping to see some more AA mainline to DFW and CLT soon.

We need Allegiant to expand, or Spirit or Frontier back

gsoflyer wrote:

We need Allegiant to expand, or Spirit or Frontier back

Spirit’s loads were awful, likely due to Allegiant’s grip on GSO-Florida. Outside of Florida, where else is Spirit gonna regularly fill an 182 seat A320 at a decent frequency? Not many options for that from GSO…

The thing about Spirit is that its a real airlines compared to Allegiant. Spirit's key is legitimately its connections, and its schedule offered garbage for connections. I wanted to go to Denver, on Spirit nope. Lime Peru to visit family, nope. New Orleans, nope. I legitimately tried and could never get Spirit to work. I flew Frontier often when they were here.

Allegiant is killing itself here. They may have a grip, but their schedule is terrible. Why fly to Orlando to arrive at 11pm when you can go to Concord and get there in the morning on the same day.

gsoflyer wrote:

The thing about Spirit is that its a real airlines compared to Allegiant. Spirit's key is legitimately its connections, and its schedule offered garbage for connections. I wanted to go to Denver, on Spirit nope. Lime Peru to visit family, nope. New Orleans, nope. I legitimately tried and could never get Spirit to work. I flew Frontier often when they were here.

Allegiant is killing itself here. They may have a grip, but their schedule is terrible. Why fly to Orlando to arrive at 11pm when you can go to Concord and get there in the morning on the same day.

While Spirit does schedule FLL around connections, that’s really the only real connecting operation in their entire network. LAS offers some connectivity, but overall Spirit is a point to point local airline. GSO just doesn’t have enough demand to anywhere that’ll fill a flight off local demand with zero connections, Allegiant being the exception.

Yeah Spirit could’ve scheduled GSO-FLL to meet one of the Down South banks at FLL (for all I know they very well might’ve done exactly that during their attempt), but let’s not say GSO - South America is gonna support Spirit, as that’s a tiny market. Either GSO can fill a Spirit A319 to FLL or they can’t. We saw what happened. Like you said, GSO needs a hub on one end to make a route work, so Spirit is out.

They're GSO schedule to FLL didn't offer that many connections. It'd be nice if Allegiant brought FLL back and added LAS.

Their schedule as well.....

Do you folks at GSO see allot of flights by HondaJets?

delta767 wrote:

I thought IAD is just a temporary cut until the pilot shortage gets back to normal?

I wonder if Delta DTW 1x is just temporary?

Also, hoping to see some more AA mainline to DFW and CLT soon.

IAD was a suspension due to pilot shortages at Air Wisconsin. That being said, it's far from a given it actually resumes.

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

Do you folks at GSO see allot of flights by HondaJets?

Yes. Lots of test aircraft constantly from the manufacturing center. Also, there is a company based here called Jet It that runs chartered jet services and they use HondaJets. https://gojetit.com/

Using 3/31/22 here are the daily scheduled flights from GSO...

G4
SFB (1) - 1X A320 (twice weekly)
PIE (1) - 1X A320 (twice weekly)

AA
CLT (7) - 2X A319, 1X E175, 2X CRJ9, 2X E145
DCA (3) - 3X CRJ7
DFW (3) - 3X E175
LGA (3) - 2X E175, 1X E170
MIA (1) - 1X E175
ORD (1) - 1X E145
PHL (3) - 1X E175, 1X CRJ7, 1X E145

DL
ATL (6) - 2X B739, 2X B738, 2X B712
DTW (1) - 1X CRJ9
LGA (3) - 3X CRJ9

UA
EWR (3) - 1X E170, 2X CRJ5
ORD (3) - 3X CRJ2

Has Allegiant cut Orlando Sanford from the network? Im not seeing it loaded on the Allegiant website after April. That would mean no service to Orlando from Greensboro/High Point at all! Also hoping DL and AA increase ATL and CLT again. Both are 6x when in the past they have been 7-9x.

delta767 wrote:

Has Allegiant cut Orlando Sanford from the network? Im not seeing it loaded on the Allegiant website after April. That would mean no service to Orlando from Greensboro/High Point at all! Also hoping DL and AA increase ATL and CLT again. Both are 6x when in the past they have been 7-9x.

Yep. Again, GSO is a waste for passenger.

It's amazing how GSO offloaded CLT and ROA people due to high fares 20 years ago. And now, ROA has better service than GSO and GSO has fallen far below AVL for traffic and approaching ILM.

Tell me one good reason any air carrier should increase service at all, or even start new service?

Im surprised Allegiant would go through all the trouble to move terminals and then cut service. Maybe it's a pilot issue? Id think SFB would be more popular than St. Petersburg.

Well I can say this, their schedule to GSO is less favorable than to Concord. It's really nothing to drive to Concord vs deal with RDU and CLT for flights from the Triad. I'm honestly surprised that Allegiant is still here.

Brett Synder at Cranky Flier shared that GSO has shrunk the 4th most in the US out of the top 100 markets in a post Thursday. It's down 30.2% in seat count comparing July of 2019 to this month.

https://crankyflier.com/2022/07/14/where-us-airports-stand-in-the-recovery/

Is there any hope for recovery long term? I see the shortage of regional pilots as a substantial impediment to restoring flight numbers, and further headwinds from the growth of RDU and CLT. A slightly longer drive can eliminate connections, and even if a connection is needed, the busier airports have substantially improved schedules, with more convenient departure and arrival times. From the eastern side of Greensboro, Raleigh becomes more and more attractive. Despite CLT being on the far side of Charlotte from the piedmont triad, travel from parts of Winston-Salem and other communities is only one hour more to CLT than GSO.

My fear is that a vicious spiral has begun. I can see a world where flights are reduced to perhaps CLT, ATL, and DCA, pushing almost all passengers to alternative airports.

Thought you all might find this interesting. This is a list of number of aircraft/types into GSO on Nov 30, 1998. I count 8 airline and 73 flights, 50 of which are mainline sized aircraft.

AirTran
Atlanta (ATL)
3 DC-9-30


American
Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW)
2 F-100


Continental
Cleveland (CLE)
3 EMB-120
Houston (IAH)
2 DC-9-30
Newark (EWR)
2 B737-100
1 B737-300
1 B737-500


Delta
Atlanta (ATL)
5 B727-200
1 CRJ 50
3 MD-88
Cincinnati (CVG)
1 B727-200
2 B737-200
3 CRJ 50
Raleigh (RDU)
1 CRJ 50


Eastwind
New York - La Guardia (LGA)
1 B737-200
Orlando (MCO)
1 B737-200
Philadelphia (PHL)
1 B737-200
Trenton
2 B737-200


Northwest
Detroit Metro (DTW)
1 DC-9-10
2 DC-9-30


United
Charlotte (CLT)
1 B737-500
Chicago - O'Hare (ORD)
1 B737-300
2 B737-500
Washington - Dulles (IAD)
7 Jetstream 32


USAirways
Baltimore (BWI)
3 Dash 8
Charlotte (CLT)
1 B737-200
2 B737-300
2 Dash 8
3 F-100
New York - La Guardia (LGA)
1 B737-300
1 B737-400
1 DC-9-30
1 F-100
Philadelphia (PHL)
1 B737-200
1 B737-300
1 DC-9-30
1 F-100
Pittsburgh (PIT)
1 B737-300
2 DC-9-30
1 Do 328
Raleigh (RDU)
1 Dash 8
Washington - National (DCA)
3 Dash 8
1 F-100

AUxyz wrote:

Brett Synder at Cranky Flier shared that GSO has shrunk the 4th most in the US out of the top 100 markets in a post Thursday. It's down 30.2% in seat count comparing July of 2019 to this month.

https://crankyflier.com/2022/07/14/where-us-airports-stand-in-the-recovery/

Is there any hope for recovery long term? I see the shortage of regional pilots as a substantial impediment to restoring flight numbers, and further headwinds from the growth of RDU and CLT. A slightly longer drive can eliminate connections, and even if a connection is needed, the busier airports have substantially improved schedules, with more convenient departure and arrival times. From the eastern side of Greensboro, Raleigh becomes more and more attractive. Despite CLT being on the far side of Charlotte from the piedmont triad, travel from parts of Winston-Salem and other communities is only one hour more to CLT than GSO.

My fear is that a vicious spiral has begun. I can see a world where flights are reduced to perhaps CLT, ATL, and DCA, pushing almost all passengers to alternative airports.

Is there any chance GSO will consolidate operations into just one of the two concourses given such a large reduction in flights? One would think just one concourse could easily handle what is scheduled by all airlines.

gsoflyer wrote:

Tell me one good reason any air carrier should increase service at all, or even start new service?

GSO is the #3 remaining market in the contiguous U.S. (after TYS and MSN) by number of passengers in 2019 without WN service.

The Greensboro–Winston-Salem–High Point, NC Combined Statistical Area is also the largest remaining primary statistical area in the U.S. by population without WN service.

The possibility of WN adding service to GSO was previously discussed in the Airliners.net forums, including in a post from more than 8 years ago that can be found at viewtopic.php?t=569967#p8442255.

While passenger counts are still down at GSO, they are still increasing, and the airport as a whole is thriving. GSO is still a great, low-stress alternative to RDU and CLT especially with higher gas prices and increasing congestion at the other two. A large-scale passenger terminal renovation has also started and will be completed in phases over the next couple of years. Personally hope Breeze and/or Avelo take a look one day but I quit holding my breath for WN a long time ago.

https://greensboro.com/news/local/ready ... 691cd.html

https://airportimprovement.com/article/ ... along-ride

I'm really surprised at how poor GSO's air service is. My mom's best friend is from Greesnboro and is going back to vist next month and it was much easier just to fly to her to RDU and rent a car.

I'm really surprised that it is not connected to major hubs like BOS, JFK, MCO, TPA, IAH, FLL, IAD, DEN, YYZ, and MSP at all and only has 4x weekly to DTW. The Triad is not exceptionally poor or anything like that so it really doesn't make sense. Someone like MX, XP or SY could come in and offer a 2-3 flights a week tp BOS/EWR/BWI and FLL/MCO/MIA plus LAS and maybe DEN and make a major impact.

usflyer msp wrote:

I'm really surprised at how poor GSO's air service is. My mom's best friend is from Greesnboro and is going back to vist next month and it was much easier just to fly to her to RDU and rent a car.

I'm really surprised that it is not connected to major hubs like BOS, JFK, MCO, TPA, IAH, FLL, IAD, DEN, YYZ, and MSP at all and only has 4x weekly to DTW. The Triad is not exceptionally poor or anything like that so it really doesn't make sense. Someone like MX, XP or SY could come in and offer a 2-3 flights a week tp BOS/EWR/BWI and FLL/MCO/MIA plus LAS and maybe DEN and make a major impact.

Easy three answers:
1) trust
2) connections
3) cost

Trust: Southwest and Jetblue (name brands) or Spirit/Allegiant/Frontier? First, none of the later really advertised in any meaningful manner. No one here trusts those airlines compared to Southwest.

Connections: I worked for a global company, I would say 70 seats per week from all over the world on average. Local guys like me used GSO. People now from here used RDU. Anyone flying in would rather than 1 less connection and go to RDU or CLT and drive. It's not just that you have a connection, it is also that connections are not convenient.

Cost: Used to be that GSO was cheaper than RDU or CLT. Southwest, Frontier, Allegiant, Spirit, Avelo, Jetblue - competition lowers costs.

Why fly to GSO when the public has been trained to go to RDU, CLT and Concord at this point. Given Avelo is in Wilmington and Allegiant/Jetblue in Asheville, it is really sad to see he demise of the airport in the 36th biggest CSA fall down this far.

Lines out the door at 6am for precheck with the mainline and larger AA Eagle planes. Kinda cool!

Anyone notice the Sun Country branding on the airline desks next to AA? It’s been there for at least a week. It’s at the charter desk, but could the airline be considering service there? Or is it just a one-off charter?

UA schedule this summer
2 175 to ORD vs 3 CRJ200- was air Wisconsin
2 170 and 1 175 to EWR

Wow, we get smacked w no frequency at all by UA. At least they offer F again to ORD. Any idea when IAD will return?

Silver Airways to MCO starts in June?

I want the to come into ILM...

Des in ILM,

norcarolinian wrote:

Silver Airways to MCO starts in June?

Interesting. They have apparently been able to compete against G4 in GSP, too.

Supposedly adding GSO-BNA, too, a route everyone has tried to make work at some point:

viewtopic.php?p=23782143#p23782143

I don’t see BNA bookable on their website. MCO though is bookable.

Lilj4425 wrote:

I don’t see BNA bookable on their website. MCO though is bookable.

BNA-GSO is bookable as a roundtrip but not GSO-BNA. Weird.

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

norcarolinian wrote:

Silver Airways to MCO starts in June?

Interesting. They have apparently been able to compete against G4 in GSP, too.

Supposedly adding GSO-BNA, too, a route everyone has tried to make work at some point:

viewtopic.php?p=23782143#p23782143

Allegiant has a good hold on the Tampa market at GSO. And I have to think GSP is about to get saturation with Avelo, Allegiant and Silver all hitting MCO and 2 of them with FLL

GSO is going to be about how well they can get the word out. GSO passengers have been way burned by Skybus, Indy Air, Eastwind, Co Lite, Shuttle America, etc.

gsoflyer wrote:

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

norcarolinian wrote:

Silver Airways to MCO starts in June?

Interesting. They have apparently been able to compete against G4 in GSP, too.

Supposedly adding GSO-BNA, too, a route everyone has tried to make work at some point:

viewtopic.php?p=23782143#p23782143

Allegiant has a good hold on the Tampa market at GSO. And I have to think GSP is about to get saturation with Avelo, Allegiant and Silver all hitting MCO and 2 of them with FLL

GSO is going to be about how well they can get the word out. GSO passengers have been way burned by Skybus, Indy Air, Eastwind, Co Lite, Shuttle America, etc.

Avelo is cutting GSP-MCO after Labor Day so the market was definitely already saturated with Orlando service.

Still no official announcement that I can see but did find this re: Silver at GSO...

https://twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1652331394540896257

Given seating on the ATR, I have to imagine this will be moderately successful.

We should close this thread and move into: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1480137&start=100&hilit=gso

There's just not enough GSO news to warrant it's on thread like this.

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

Do you folks at GSO see allot of flights by HondaJets?

Yep, and after working there, I duck for cover every time......

Should this forum just be consolidated with the Rest of the Carolinas forum for 2024? Much like GSO, not a lot of activity here.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1480137#unread