hooforce wrote:

ElroyJetson wrote:

hooforce wrote:

This is true from 2020 to 2021, but from 2021 to 2022, the cargo growth at RIC has stopped; gone backwards, even - down 20.59% this CY thus far as of April 22. As a huge fan of RIC, it's not something I like to admit, but fact is fact. Hope things recover:

https://flyrichmond.com/wp-content/uplo ... t-rev1.pdf

Why do you think it has dropped in 2022? The prior two years cargo was up strongly.

I’ve been told that in 2020 and 2021 (during the height of the pandemic) there was a lot of online purchasing going on, but since the pandemic’s grip has been released, more folks are going out to make purchases. As a result, there was a reduction in online purchases. The linked affect of that is less cargo to ship and that is what has caused the decrease in RIC’s cargo numbers. I don’t have proof this is the case, but this is what Mr. Troy Bell (Spokesman for the airport) has reported. To reverse what has happened over the past year, either there needs to be a significant increase in population and/or businesses in and around RVA, which could increase the amount bought online, or there has to be another reason for folks to flock to online purchasing again as their primary way to acquire goods. That’s all I know at this point.

Thanks, It makes sense. I have heard Amazon's business is down across the board Nationally since the pandemic. However, there is some good news. DHL is doing a 7 million dollar expansion at RIC to increase International cargo into Richmond and beyond. DHL is one of the largest international airfreight companies in the world.

https://ajot.com/news/dhl-expands-and-r ... ichmond-va

ElroyJetson wrote:

hooforce wrote:

ElroyJetson wrote:

Why do you think it has dropped in 2022? The prior two years cargo was up strongly.

I’ve been told that in 2020 and 2021 (during the height of the pandemic) there was a lot of online purchasing going on, but since the pandemic’s grip has been released, more folks are going out to make purchases. As a result, there was a reduction in online purchases. The linked affect of that is less cargo to ship and that is what has caused the decrease in RIC’s cargo numbers. I don’t have proof this is the case, but this is what Mr. Troy Bell (Spokesman for the airport) has reported. To reverse what has happened over the past year, either there needs to be a significant increase in population and/or businesses in and around RVA, which could increase the amount bought online, or there has to be another reason for folks to flock to online purchasing again as their primary way to acquire goods. That’s all I know at this point.

Thanks, It makes sense. I have heard Amazon's business is down across the board Nationally since the pandemic. However, there is some good news. DHL is doing a 7 million dollar expansion at RIC to increase International cargo into Richmond and beyond. DHL is one of the largest international airfreight companies in the world.

https://ajot.com/news/dhl-expands-and-r ... ichmond-va

Yes! I saw that, but I was hoping they'd build a new hanger or cargo processing facility on the RIC premises. Right now DHL is just using Apron 1 on the airport's east side for loading and unloading. Maybe there will be a new DHL facility as part of the new cargo area the airport is looking to build. Don't know when that will start though. Does anyone know?

On a separate note, the airport has a few other projects ongoing or in the works:
1) Concourse B Apron expansion for a new de-ice area (currently under construction). This is also in preparation for a Concourse B expansion at some point.
2) We already mentioned it, but the cargo area is moving from its current location to the east side (this will also help make way for a Concourse B expansion or room for a new passenger terminal as per their master plan
3) There is also a study afoot to determine where to move the Army National Guard facilities to another location from the area just south of RWY 34
4) I've also heard they are looking to move the firehouse/facilities that sit right in the middle of the airfield (items 3 & 4 are to pave the way for a new parallel runway as per the master plan). The only thing I haven't heard about moving yet is the FBO and private aircraft area on the west side of RWY 16. That will probably also need to move if a parallel runway is built.

I think there are a few other projects inside the terminal they are working on as well (i.e. expansion of the security areas, etc.)

Looks like PHF will get new service on Avelo. PHF-MCO/FLL now available for booking. Up to 3x weekly on both routes.

Gulfstream500 wrote:

Looks like PHF will get new service on Avelo. PHF-MCO/FLL now available for booking. Up to 3x weekly on both routes.

Great for PHF! Looks like flight start:
MCO Flights
Oct 19 -Oct 19 Wed,
Oct 20 - Nov 9 Thur and Sun.
Nov 10 - Tues, Thurs, Sun

FLL Flights
Oct 20 - Nov 9 Thurs and Sun
Nov 10 - Tues, Thurs and Sunday

Starting November 10 routing is MCO-PHF-FLL-PHF-MCO.

https://www.aveloair.com/route-announce ... hine-state

RIC gets an upgrade in service from MX (Breeze). LAS increased from X2 X4 weekly. TPA increased from X5 weekly to 6X weekly. ORF has two frequencies reduced and one increased. Planned service from ORF to LAX is cancelled.

Las Vegas – Richmond Increase from 2 to 4 weekly (selected weeks 5 weekly)
Las Vegas – Provo Reduce from 7 to 2 weekly
Las Vegas – Westchester County Planned service from 08SEP22 removed
Norfolk – Tampa Reduce from 5 to 4 weekly (selected weeks)
Norfolk – Westchester County Increase from 4 to 5 weekly
Norfolk – West Palm Beach Reduce from 3 to 2 weekly
Tampa – Richmond Increase from 5 to 6 weekly (selected weeks 7 weekly)

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220817-mxnw22

This is great news! Thanks for posting!

Spirit Airlines is coming to ORF

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/spirit-airlines-coming-to-norfolk-international-airport/

Link to the airport press release (PDF) https://www.norfolkairport.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Spirit-Airlines-Embarks-on-New-Daily-Service-at-Norfolk.pdf

The big selling point is that the Spirit flights to Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale will be daily. Nobody else, not even Southwest, currently flies daily ORF-Orlando. The other notable thing is that Spirit offers connections, while most other ULCCs don't. They're really hyping connections to the Caribbean.

But here's what I don't get. The airport director said they've been trying to get Spirit to ORF for 14 years. A decade and a half of negotiations, and we get a 4th airline to Orlando??? Of all the places Spirit flies and all we get are two Florida cities. One can only hope that this is ORF's foot-in-the-door way of finally getting JetBlue (assuming the merger happens).

It’s a shame that Virginia thinks traveling is just limited to those in the Richmond Norfolk markets. Contrary to popular belief, the state does extend beyond the western border of Henrico County to Roanoke and points beyond. It would be nice to see a ROA - DFW segment from AA for those traveling to points west.

IFlyMGN wrote:

It’s a shame that Virginia thinks traveling is just limited to those in the Richmond Norfolk markets. Contrary to popular belief, the state does extend beyond the western border of Henrico County to Roanoke and points beyond. It would be nice to see a ROA - DFW segment from AA for those traveling to points west.

Sure would be. I suspect part of the issue is utilization, though. That's a 1000 mile plus route that would need to be on a 70-seater, and they're in pretty high demand across the network right now.

IADCA wrote:

IFlyMGN wrote:

It’s a shame that Virginia thinks traveling is just limited to those in the Richmond Norfolk markets. Contrary to popular belief, the state does extend beyond the western border of Henrico County to Roanoke and points beyond. It would be nice to see a ROA - DFW segment from AA for those traveling to points west.

Sure would be. I suspect part of the issue is utilization, though. That's a 1000 mile plus route that would need to be on a 70-seater, and they're in pretty high demand across the network right now.

I have found it interesting that TRI has twice daily service to DFW on AA now for a few years but ROA still does not have service. It has to be on the short list to get the route if they ever have fleet availability.

IFlyMGN wrote:

It’s a shame that Virginia thinks traveling is just limited to those in the Richmond Norfolk markets. Contrary to popular belief, the state does extend beyond the western border of Henrico County to Roanoke and points beyond. It would be nice to see a ROA - DFW segment from AA for those traveling to points west.

I'm not really sure I understand your point. No one thinks travel in this state is limited to NOVA, Richmond, or Hampton Roads, but it's simple economics — the flights go where the people are. The western and southern portions of the state have far lower population densities to support increased air service. Up until about four years ago, IAH was the longest route served from RIC for many, many years, and it was on a 2-3 times daily E145. Arguably it could have supported expanded service long before it actually came, but that's for a region significantly larger than ROA. That's not to say ROA couldn't support a route to DFW, but I would argue that ROA is more than adequately served to points west by routes to ORD, CLT, and ATL with the massive number of onward connections offered by all three. Given the shortage in pilots, particularly at the regional level, there isn't really a lot of capacity to start new longer regional segments right now, and I don't anticipate that improving anytime soon. There are a lot of similarly sized regions to ROA that have faced deep cuts in air service over the past 30 months, and ultimately ROA is well served to large hubs with an array of connections east, west, and abroad. The airport is doing exactly what it needs for the surrounding region, which is offering regular service to large connecting hubs.

TYSflyer wrote:

IADCA wrote:

IFlyMGN wrote:

It’s a shame that Virginia thinks traveling is just limited to those in the Richmond Norfolk markets. Contrary to popular belief, the state does extend beyond the western border of Henrico County to Roanoke and points beyond. It would be nice to see a ROA - DFW segment from AA for those traveling to points west.

Sure would be. I suspect part of the issue is utilization, though. That's a 1000 mile plus route that would need to be on a 70-seater, and they're in pretty high demand across the network right now.

I have found it interesting that TRI has twice daily service to DFW on AA now for a few years but ROA still does not have service. It has to be on the short list to get the route if they ever have fleet availability.

The likely explanation is that DFW is the only westward destination out of TRI, whereas Roanoke has UA to ORD 3x/day.

Also, from the purely AA side, TRI-DFW is also ~150 miles shorter, which seems like a negligible amount until you realize it's the difference of 600 air miles on 2 turns a day. Further, ROA-CLT-DFW doesn't involve backtracking; TRI-CLT-DFW does.

My point is that in many cases, flying to points west destinations other than the large airports like LAX, SFO, SAN requires a two stop trip as opposed to a one stop. Using Delta generally requires stops in ATL and SLC. AA usually requires stops CLT and DFW or PHX. UA generally requires stops in ORD and DEN or SFO. There are occasionally seasonal one stops to some of the more leisure destinations but they are not offered for very long.

IFlyMGN wrote:

My point is that in many cases, flying to points west destinations other than the large airports like LAX, SFO, SAN requires a two stop trip as opposed to a one stop. Using Delta generally requires stops in ATL and SLC. AA usually requires stops CLT and DFW or PHX. UA generally requires stops in ORD and DEN or SFO. There are occasionally seasonal one stops to some of the more leisure destinations but they are not offered for very long.

That's the pain of medium-size cities everywhere, and specifically Roanoke's rough geographic peers. Compare that service to TRI, which is approximately the same MSA size as ROA. There you have DFW, but try getting anywhere in the northeast efficiently, even the major cities: no DC, no New York, no Philly. At least Roanoke has all those, plus the connections they offer.

Even CHA, which is nearly twice the MSA size as ROA, has one daily flight to DC (which arrives too late to connect to anything), no NYC or Philly, and has 2x DFW on E17X and 2x CR2s to ORD as the only westward-bound flights.

Really, only TYS is doing especially well out of all the airports arrayed down the 81/40/75 corridor. I recognize that pure MSA size isn't the be all and end all of service decisions, but please do see Roanoke's service in the context of its peers down along the mountains.

IADCA wrote:

IFlyMGN wrote:

My point is that in many cases, flying to points west destinations other than the large airports like LAX, SFO, SAN requires a two stop trip as opposed to a one stop. Using Delta generally requires stops in ATL and SLC. AA usually requires stops CLT and DFW or PHX. UA generally requires stops in ORD and DEN or SFO. There are occasionally seasonal one stops to some of the more leisure destinations but they are not offered for very long.

That's the pain of medium-size cities everywhere, and specifically its rough geographic peers. Compare that service to TRI, which is approximately the same MSA size as ROA. There you have DFW, but try getting anywhere in the northeast efficiently, even the major cities: no DC, no New York, no Philly. At least Roanoke has all those, plus the connections they offer.

Even CHA, which is nearly twice the MSA size as ROA, has one daily flight to DC (which arrives too late to connect to anything), no NYC or Philly, and has 2x DFW on E17X and 2x CR2s to ORD as the only westward-bound flights.

Really, only TYS is doing especially well out of all the airports arrayed down the 81/40/75 corridor. I recognize that pure MSA size isn't the be all and end all of service decisions, but please do see Roanoke's service in the context of its peers down along the mountains.

Trust me…having flown in and out of ROA for both business and pleasure for the past 45+ years, I’m very aware of what the airport service has been over the years. At one point, GSO was getting a lot of ROA business but that seems to have dwindled. I fully realize that they are different sized markets but still find it funny that AA offers DFW service non-stop from GSO when CLT is a skip down 85.

mikejepp wrote:

Is there any chance ROA could see AA mainline service? Maybe a 319 to CLT?

I remember Piedmont and later USAir flew 73’s to CLT as well as BWI. Saw a few F-28’s and 100’s too. I remember when PI flew 72’s to ROA. That was always a fun landing!

IADCA wrote:

TYSflyer wrote:

IADCA wrote:

Sure would be. I suspect part of the issue is utilization, though. That's a 1000 mile plus route that would need to be on a 70-seater, and they're in pretty high demand across the network right now.

I have found it interesting that TRI has twice daily service to DFW on AA now for a few years but ROA still does not have service. It has to be on the short list to get the route if they ever have fleet availability.

The likely explanation is that DFW is the only westward destination out of TRI, whereas Roanoke has UA to ORD 3x/day.

Also, from the purely AA side, TRI-DFW is also ~150 miles shorter, which seems like a negligible amount until you realize it's the difference of 600 air miles on 2 turns a day. Further, ROA-CLT-DFW doesn't involve backtracking; TRI-CLT-DFW does.

All very valid points. I was simply thinking about the passenger volume of the 2 airports and ROA being busier although they are relatively close. You make a good point though with ROA already having a westward connection via ORD.

RIC will be getting twice weekly MX flights to PHX starting in February 2023 aboard A220-300 aircraft, A great get for Richmond. Now let's see if AA will follow suit.



https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221025-mxnw22

ElroyJetson wrote:

RIC will be getting twice weekly MX flights to PHX starting in February 2023 aboard A220-300 aircraft, A great get for Richmond. Now let's see if AA will follow suit.



https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221025-mxnw22

This is super news and I hope this route is very successful! Would be interesting if Southwest or AA tried to match it or…will these airlines just stay far away? We’ll see soon enough. Been a long time since a legacy airline expanded service at RIC.

IFlyMGN wrote:

mikejepp wrote:

Is there any chance ROA could see AA mainline service? Maybe a 319 to CLT?

I remember Piedmont and later USAir flew 73’s to CLT as well as BWI. Saw a few F-28’s and 100’s too. I remember when PI flew 72’s to ROA. That was always a fun landing!

They are going to keep the 145's till they fall apart like they did with the Dash-8's.

airlineworker wrote:

IFlyMGN wrote:

mikejepp wrote:

Is there any chance ROA could see AA mainline service? Maybe a 319 to CLT?

I remember Piedmont and later USAir flew 73’s to CLT as well as BWI. Saw a few F-28’s and 100’s too. I remember when PI flew 72’s to ROA. That was always a fun landing!

They are going to keep the 145's till they fall apart like they did with the Dash-8's.

Flights to RIC will stay only E-145s because Piedmont has a maintenance base here. So they rotate planes in/out for work.

Well, after DL dropped RIC-MSP (formerly 1x daily CR9), it appears that Sun Country will now be flying the route twice weekly on the 737. Starts May, 2x weekly M/F.

Gulfstream500 wrote:

Well, after DL dropped RIC-MSP (formerly 1x daily CR9), it appears that Sun Country will now be flying the route twice weekly on the 737. Starts May, 2x weekly M/F.

I'll take it, but wish it was daily service to make up for the loss of the Delta flight.

hooforce wrote:

Gulfstream500 wrote:

Well, after DL dropped RIC-MSP (formerly 1x daily CR9), it appears that Sun Country will now be flying the route twice weekly on the 737. Starts May, 2x weekly M/F.

I'll take it, but wish it was daily service to make up for the loss of the Delta flight.

Sun Country mainly focuses on local traffic where as Delta has the massive MSP hub. Sun Country couldn’t fill it daily.

FLYKTPA wrote:

hooforce wrote:

Gulfstream500 wrote:

Well, after DL dropped RIC-MSP (formerly 1x daily CR9), it appears that Sun Country will now be flying the route twice weekly on the 737. Starts May, 2x weekly M/F.

I'll take it, but wish it was daily service to make up for the loss of the Delta flight.

Sun Country mainly focuses on local traffic where as Delta has the massive MSP hub. Sun Country couldn’t fill it daily.

Yes and no... I wonder if this routing will allow pax to connect to FAI or ANC in the summer. Would be a good one-stop hop for residents around the RIC area.

rainaviation2 wrote:

FLYKTPA wrote:

hooforce wrote:

I'll take it, but wish it was daily service to make up for the loss of the Delta flight.

Sun Country mainly focuses on local traffic where as Delta has the massive MSP hub. Sun Country couldn’t fill it daily.

Yes and no... I wonder if this routing will allow pax to connect to FAI or ANC in the summer. Would be a good one-stop hop for residents around the RIC area.

The current schedule doesn’t allow for westbound connections. ANC & FAI - RIC are next to nonexistent demand wise anyway. Hopefully locals support this and it’ll increase to 4x weekly the following summer, as other similar adds by SY have.

Link to Sun Country announcement. Flights will be on Monday and Friday.


https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221116-syns23msp

Well, it's official: after SY added RIC-MSP nonstop, DL added back the nonstop RIC-MSP as well. 1x daily, CRJ900. Starts in June, just a few weeks after SY starts its flights to RIC.

Gulfstream500 wrote:

Well, it's official: after SY added RIC-MSP nonstop, DL added back the nonstop RIC-MSP as well. 1x daily, CRJ900. Starts in June, just a few weeks after SY starts its flights to RIC.

Image that. I know many who have taken the MSP-RIC to connect to ANC or SEA for business. Good news.

ElroyJetson wrote:

Gulfstream500 wrote:

Well, it's official: after SY added RIC-MSP nonstop, DL added back the nonstop RIC-MSP as well. 1x daily, CRJ900. Starts in June, just a few weeks after SY starts its flights to RIC.

Image that. I know many who have taken the MSP-RIC to connect to ANC or SEA for business. Good news.

Yeah, this is great news. Love to see the competition, which is usually means better prices and options for the consumer. Now, if we could just get American Airlines to compete with Breeze on the RIC-PHX route….

Just wanted to add the link verifying the MSP-RIC add on DL. The flight will be 7 days a week on a CR-9 aircraft.


https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221220-dljun23msp

MX is starting ORF to LAX twice weekly on A220-300 aircraft. Good news for ORF.


https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/221222-mx1h23