Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2022

SQ22 · Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:49 am

Welcome to the Indiana Aviation Thread 2022. Please continue to post your news and your discussion below.

Link to previous thread:

Indiana State Aviation Thread - 2021

jetskipper · Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:35 pm

Looks like UPS is still using an A300-600 to SBN and FWA, is this going to be permanent? Usually they change back to a 757-200 after Christmas.

freakyrat · Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:10 pm

jetskipper wrote:
Looks like UPS is still using an A300-600 to SBN and FWA, is this going to be permanent? Usually they change back to a 757-200 after Christmas.

What I heard is that it is permanent. They must be doing a bunch of Amazon Prime business for the Amazon facility nearby.

freakyrat · Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:28 pm

Here are a couple of things that will probably go on at SBN in the next few years: The completion of the realignment and rebuild of Taxiway B including the drive through deicing pad. The reconstruction of the main terminal ramp. Construction of a brand new parallel taxiway on the west side of Rwy 18/36. Other taxiway rebuild projects. The taxiway projects are being done to meet the FAA specifications for paved shoulders etc.

freakyrat · Fri Jan 07, 2022 2:49 am

freakyrat wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Looks like UPS is still using an A300-600 to SBN and FWA, is this going to be permanent? Usually they change back to a 757-200 after Christmas.

What I heard is that it is permanent. They must be doing a bunch of Amazon Prime business for the Amazon facility nearby.

Of Late FedEx had been flying their 757-200 Nonstop between SBN and MEM with SBN-DAY-MEM and SBN-GRR-MEM thrown in.

freakyrat · Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:13 pm

freakyrat wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Looks like UPS is still using an A300-600 to SBN and FWA, is this going to be permanent? Usually they change back to a 757-200 after Christmas.

What I heard is that it is permanent. They must be doing a bunch of Amazon Prime business for the Amazon facility nearby.

Well it was suppose to be permanent but the past 2 days they have been back to the B757-200PF at SBN and FWA.

freakyrat · Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:12 pm

freakyrat wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
Looks like UPS is still using an A300-600 to SBN and FWA, is this going to be permanent? Usually they change back to a 757-200 after Christmas.

What I heard is that it is permanent. They must be doing a bunch of Amazon Prime business for the Amazon facility nearby.

Well it was suppose to be permanent but the past 2 days they have been back to the B757-200PF at SBN and FWA.

They Resumed the A300 on January 14th.

freakyrat · Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:11 pm

SBN's Numbers for November of 2021 are up on their website. SBN is close to a full traffic recovery from the Pandemic.

https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... v-2021.pdf

In other news. UPS uses an A300 or the B757 at SBN depending on their freight loads.

freakyrat · Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:47 pm

SBN's final numbers for 2021. South Bend normally enplanes and deplanes about the same amount of passengers which means SBN handles a total around 683,000 passengers and still is the number 2 airport in Indiana in enplanements squeaking by FWA by 316 passengers. SBN still hasn't matched the record numbers of 2019 but they also still had fewer flights especially on Delta but Delta also is using the larger CRJ900 for some flights. One bright note Air Cargo was up bolstered by Amazon and others so much so that the UPS A300-600PF is becoming a permanent fixture at the airport.
https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... c-2021.pdf

freakyrat · Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:07 am

The TSA's installation of the new Analogic 3D CT carry-on baggage scanners at SBN has been a disaster from the word go, One security line to handle over 500 passengers in the morning. Someone said it took them 4 hrs to clear security. Lines extended back into the main terminal back towards the Delta ticket counter. Many passengers missed their flights or connection. TSA and SBN get a F for not properly planning for this. One way this could have been mitigated at least at United would have been to have a spare Skywest CRJ200 or 700 with crew on standby to get the passengers to OHare that had difficulty getting through ONE security line where they notmally had 2 line open. TSA also could have called the contractor in and installed these machines on a graveyard shift.

jmc1975 · Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:58 am

With both UA and AA pulling out of ORD-EVV; how long before AA reinstates it to fill the void. It is a top O&D from EVV.

Midwestindy · Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:58 pm

Not sure if it was mentioned but LAF got state funding for its terminal project, clearing the way for air service to return:

Purdue VP said, G4 is ready to start air service once terminal is complete, and they are having ongoing conversations with AA.

https://vimeo.com/654131793
https://greaterlafayetteind.com/wp-cont ... pt2021.pdf

FlyingElvii · Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:51 am

Where is the new terminal to be located??

freakyrat · Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:17 am

American is adding a third SBN-DFW flight in the early morning (6:00 am) during the months of April and May. There will also be a slight adjustment of the Afternoon flights departure time. All flights are on Skywest CRJ700's. In June the DFW flights go back to twice daily and at their usual times. In other AA news: The Morning SBN-CLT flight will again be operated by the larger PSA CRJ900.

adam47150 · Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:56 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
With both UA and AA pulling out of ORD-EVV; how long before AA reinstates it to fill the void. It is a top O&D from EVV.

How many seats were there daily EVV-ORD? What are the chances WN would jump on the market with 1x or 2x daily to ORD?

rampantfox · Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:36 pm

adam47150 wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
With both UA and AA pulling out of ORD-EVV; how long before AA reinstates it to fill the void. It is a top O&D from EVV.

How many seats were there daily EVV-ORD? What are the chances WN would jump on the market with 1x or 2x daily to ORD?

EVV is way to small for WN to consider. Biggest you MAY see would be a CRJ-700

freakyrat · Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:03 pm

rampantfox wrote:
adam47150 wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
With both UA and AA pulling out of ORD-EVV; how long before AA reinstates it to fill the void. It is a top O&D from EVV.

How many seats were there daily EVV-ORD? What are the chances WN would jump on the market with 1x or 2x daily to ORD?

EVV is way to small for WN to consider. Biggest you MAY see would be a CRJ-700

WN requires an area population of at least 1 million people before they would even consider starting service.

What is going on in EVV and other cities is a market adjustment due to a pilot shortage at the regional carriers exasperated by the present world situation with the cost of fuel and inflation related to the pandemic.

Here is the situation at SBN in regards to Delta. Pre Pandemic Delta was operating 4 daily CRJ200's to ATL, 4 daily CRJ200's to DTW and 1-2 daily CRJ200's to MSP. All operated by Skywest. Here is what they are operating today and what is planned in the next few months.

3 daily CRJ 200's to ATL, 1 daily CRJ900 to DTW and 1 daily CRJ900 to MSP. All with a combination of wholly owned Endeavor and Skywest.
Planned through the summer unless market condition change is 2 daily CRJ900's to ATL 1 daily CRJ200 to ATL and 1 daily CRJ900 to DTW and 1 daily CRJ900 to MSP again operated by wholly owned Endeavor for the ATL flights and then Skywest for the DTW and MSP flight.

Now the sitiation with American. In April and May American is adding a 6am Skywest CRJ700 flight to DFW for a total of 3 flights per day.
The early morning CLT flight will also go back to the CRJ900 upgrade through the summer from the CRJ700. PSA has the luxury of swapping out to the larger CRJ900 depending on traffic load.

All of SBN's leasure markets are well covered by Allegiant which could add Seasonal MYR and pending approval of their JV with Viva Aerobus Seasonal CUN.

Also at SBN there will be major construction projects of rebuilding the main taxiway Bravo and the Main Ramp so airlines are also taking this into consideration in their planning.

The market has changed at SBN over the past several years as leisure and business travel is now pretty much North South which means American has this covered with flights to DFW and CLT and Delta to ATL. This has negated the need for any EWR/LGA/IAD flights. This travel can easily be handled by UA to ORD and the lone DL flights to MSP and DTW and AA to CLT. Even the DEN market although desireable as an alternate for ORD when Weather or ATC results in delays or cancellations at ORD is not much of a market anymore.

So in conclusion: It's going to be a topsy turvy next few years for the industry with a shortage of pilots at the regionals and the after effects of the pandemic. All this will affect markets like EVV, SBN, FWA and others as airines right size service to meet demand.

freakyrat · Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:19 pm

Here are South Bend's Figures for January 2022. Looking like there is a slow recovery out of Covid-19's downturn even though the figures do not come close to exceeding January 2020's record traffic before Covid hit. Another item skewing these figures is Delta cutting back flights but moving to the larger CRJ900's for few of the flights that are left and United cutting back to Four 50 seaters a day to ORD vs 6 before Covid for a net loss of 3100 seats per month. Delta DTW flights went from Four 50 seaters per day to One 76 seater. for a net loss of 3844 seats per month. Delta ATL cut back from Four 50 seaters to Two 76 seaters and One 50 seater for a net gane of 62 seats per month. Delta MSP went from One 50-seater to One 76 seater for a gain of 806 seats in the market. Amertican stayed the same. So 3100 United seats were removed from the market and 3844 Delta seats were remoived from the market. It's not that traffic isn't recovering it is but there is a shortage of crews to operate the flights. So here are the figures:

https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Report.pdf

freakyrat · Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:13 pm

SBN's Numbers for February. https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Report.pdf

Nerdkatravel · Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:54 pm

adam47150 wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
With both UA and AA pulling out of ORD-EVV; how long before AA reinstates it to fill the void. It is a top O&D from EVV.

How many seats were there daily EVV-ORD? What are the chances WN would jump on the market with 1x or 2x daily to ORD?

According to the booking engine AA is scheduled to bring back EVV - ORD September 7th. That may change but that’s the schedule for now. (Google flights is the source)

American has also added an extra DFW - EVV flight for the summer months.

Delta is bringing back the 717 in June for EVV - ATL. Detroit remains suspended/ terminated.

freakyrat · Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:00 pm

Nerdkatravel wrote:
adam47150 wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
With both UA and AA pulling out of ORD-EVV; how long before AA reinstates it to fill the void. It is a top O&D from EVV.

How many seats were there daily EVV-ORD? What are the chances WN would jump on the market with 1x or 2x daily to ORD?

According to the booking engine AA is scheduled to bring back EVV - ORD September 7th. That may change but that’s the schedule for now. (Google flights is the source)

American has also added an extra DFW - EVV flight for the summer months.

Delta is bringing back the 717 in June for EVV - ATL. Detroit remains suspended/ terminated.

I'm sure that the airlines have their schedules rather fluid now based on how many pilots the regionals can hire and train. In regard to Delta, SBN-ATL should actually be 4 flights daily with half CRJ900's and half CRj200's with the plan to go to an all CRJ900 operation. SBN-DTW was to be 3 or 4 CRj200's but is 1 daily CRJ900. MSP was suppose to be 1 CRJ900 with a second fight in the summer and is still just 1 CRJ900. I'm sure it is going to take another 2 years before things get back to some semblance of normal. I'm sure SBN will see the 717 for an ATL flight at some point before they phase them out which now has been extended till 2030. On the American side of things SBN-DFW went to 2 morning flights til June 5th with no telling if it will be extended. Because of Inflation and the Price of Fuel air fares are getting rather pricey in regional markets and the recovery from the Pandemic appears to be slowing.

freakyrat · Sat Apr 30, 2022 6:16 pm

One thing about the Indiana regional markets and Delta is with wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor having CRJ200's, 700's and 900's operating the Atlanta flights Delta has aircraft scheduling flexibility based on projected passenger loads. They have been freely substituting CRJ700's and 900's on the Atlanta South Bend route for the past week or two.

DiamondFlyer · Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:39 pm

freakyrat wrote:
One thing about the Indiana regional markets and Delta is with wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor having CRJ200's, 700's and 900's operating the Atlanta flights Delta has aircraft scheduling flexibility based on projected passenger loads. They have been freely substituting CRJ700's and 900's on the Atlanta South Bend route for the past week or two.

Has nothing to do with loads. It has to do with 200's being out of service for maintenance reasons and a 700 or 900 being the only thing that have left to operate with. Very efficient use of crews (sarcasm) in an environment that they're crew limited.

freakyrat · Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:57 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
One thing about the Indiana regional markets and Delta is with wholly owned subsidiary Endeavor having CRJ200's, 700's and 900's operating the Atlanta flights Delta has aircraft scheduling flexibility based on projected passenger loads. They have been freely substituting CRJ700's and 900's on the Atlanta South Bend route for the past week or two.

Has nothing to do with loads. It has to do with 200's being out of service for maintenance reasons and a 700 or 900 being the only thing that have left to operate with. Very efficient use of crews (sarcasm) in an environment that they're crew limited.

Thank You DiamondFlyer. Outside of having the passenger loads at SBN to fill the extra DFW-SBN flight the last two months I think Skywest has been using the extra mid evening return flight from DFW to rotate a 700 into SBN for maintenance. Might as well make some revenue off of it instead of ferrying it in empty.

jetskipper · Sun May 01, 2022 1:17 pm

Nerdkatravel wrote:
adam47150 wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
With both UA and AA pulling out of ORD-EVV; how long before AA reinstates it to fill the void. It is a top O&D from EVV.

How many seats were there daily EVV-ORD? What are the chances WN would jump on the market with 1x or 2x daily to ORD?

According to the booking engine AA is scheduled to bring back EVV - ORD September 7th. That may change but that’s the schedule for now. (Google flights is the source)

American has also added an extra DFW - EVV flight for the summer months.

Delta is bringing back the 717 in June for EVV - ATL. Detroit remains suspended/ terminated.

That’s great to see the DL and AA are picking up the slack from UAs departure.

freakyrat · Sun May 01, 2022 5:18 pm

Yesterday South Bend had Five United diversions from ORD due to the tornadic weather in the Chicago area. Three Skywest E75L's, a Skywest CRJ700 and the United A320 Friend Ship.

jetskipper · Tue May 03, 2022 4:27 pm

Looks like on Mondays UPS is now routing the FWA and SBN flight, RFD-SBN-FWA-SDF on a 757-200.

freakyrat · Sun May 15, 2022 6:02 pm

UPS has been bouncing around at SBN with the A300 and the B757-200 probably crew shortages and aircraft shortages due to maintenance.

Nerdkatravel · Thu May 19, 2022 12:16 pm

The city and state are trying to get Chicago ORD back from Evansville. The latest schedule cut the flight until November it was September previously.
Source
https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/a ... e-recovery

jetskipper · Wed May 25, 2022 3:02 am

It looks like the Regional pilot shortage is starting to affect all of the second tier Indiana airports. Delta just updated their schedule and for July and August EVV-DTW is still suspended, and SBN/FWA-DTW/MSP are one once a day with the SBN-DTW/MSP flights on a CRJ-900 and the FWA-DTW/MSP on a CRJ-200. In positive news, the morning EVV-ATL flight remains to be flown by a mainline B717.

freakyrat · Fri May 27, 2022 3:52 pm

jetskipper wrote:
It looks like the Regional pilot shortage is starting to affect all of the second tier Indiana airports. Delta just updated their schedule and for July and August EVV-DTW is still suspended, and SBN/FWA-DTW/MSP are one once a day with the SBN-DTW/MSP flights on a CRJ-900 and the FWA-DTW/MSP on a CRJ-200. In positive news, the morning EVV-ATL flight remains to be flown by a mainline B717.

March traffic report for SBN still positive.
https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Report.pdf

There are other metrics to research such as the report from the Bureau Of Transportation statistics which runs from February to February.
You can select Airports by State. SBN still maintained it's ranking ahead of FWA. Skywest is still the number 1 Operator out of SBN but one thing stands out in the report American is overtaking Delta in SBN market share as CLT is close or is now the Number 2 destination out of SBN and Atlanta has moved to Number 3. We'll find that out next year. Passengers are preferring CLT and the CRJ900 for connections over ATL and the crappy CRJ200. I still believe as Delta phases out the CRJ200's that they will return SBN-ATL flights to the CRJ900 or possibly Mainline. A lot has to do with the ramp rebuild which is in the next Taxiway B rebuild BId and Delta also wants new jetbridges.

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... 4vr4=SNPgf

FWAERJ · Sat May 28, 2022 10:32 am

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/asse ... 1652896464

G4 and AA are neck and neck in terms of market share at FWA, and pax were up 12.22% in April. Looks like FWA may break its 2019 record this year.

jetskipper · Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:42 pm

The Skywest hangar at FWA had some serious damage in the storm last night.

https://www.wane.com/news/local-news/ha ... torms/amp/

jetskipper · Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:36 am

With American’s latest small market cities closure list it is clear that unprofitable cities are on the chopping block. At this point in time I would say that small airports like LAF, BMG and MIE will never again see a network carrier without large incentives. Also, EVV is down to 2 network carriers, I would not be surprised to see both FWA and SBN lose either AA, UA or DL, with UA being the smallest at both airports. The days of hoping for DEN (UA) or MIA (AA) I think are over for a while.

freakyrat · Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:22 pm

jetskipper wrote:
With American’s latest small market cities closure list it is clear that unprofitable cities are on the chopping block. At this point in time I would say that small airports like LAF, BMG and MIE will never again see a network carrier without large incentives. Also, EVV is down to 2 network carriers, I would not be surprised to see both FWA and SBN lose either AA, UA or DL, with UA being the smallest at both airports. The days of hoping for DEN (UA) or MIA (AA) I think are over for a while.

AA isn't going anywhere at SBN or FWA due to their corporate contracts. DL is temporarily using Skywest out of SBN and FWA to ATL with CRJ200's. Those flights will get upgrades in September to Skywest CRJ900's. Do not know if they will go back to Endeavor. SBN and FWA are the only 2 cities served by Skywest out of ATL. This will achieve at SBN what DL wanted pre-Covid an ALL CRJ900 operation for ATL/DTW/MSP flights. With Skywest maintenance bases at SBN and FWA, both could possibly see some extra flights again on American Eagle from DFW to rotate some CRJ700's in for maintenance. Both airports SBN and FWA are profitable operations but what I see that should happen for both airports is for Roundtrip DFW fares an American to drop about $100 dollars. IMHO opinion American raised them too much when they only raised Indianapolis fares about $65.00 and I would not go into how they raised fares into Grand Rapids Michigan because that is for another thread.

I can only speak for SBN but prior to American coming back the number 1, 2 and 3 business markets were NYC, DFW, AUS/SAT and HOU a close 4th. Right now I think the Texas markets are tops and AA consistently gets last minute bookings on their DFW flights. CLT even does better with the locals prefering that hub for East Coast connections.

As far as UA goes at SBN they had originally pre-Covid planned 10 daily flights to OHare because of the shutdown of bus service from Northern Indiana but I would assume the shortage of crews has limited them to at most 5 daily flights.

My Observations.

freakyrat · Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:25 pm

jetskipper wrote:
The Skywest hangar at FWA had some serious damage in the storm last night.

https://www.wane.com/news/local-news/ha ... torms/amp/

Looked a bit bad. I guess SBN will get more work while this hangar gets repaired.

freakyrat · Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:46 pm

jetskipper wrote:
With American’s latest small market cities closure list it is clear that unprofitable cities are on the chopping block. At this point in time I would say that small airports like LAF, BMG and MIE will never again see a network carrier without large incentives. Also, EVV is down to 2 network carriers, I would not be surprised to see both FWA and SBN lose either AA, UA or DL, with UA being the smallest at both airports. The days of hoping for DEN (UA) or MIA (AA) I think are over for a while.

I would not see either SBN or FWA loose service from AA or DL as long as those Skywest maintenance bases are there at both airports. Flights on those carriers are cheap to operate because of those bases. Why does UA have 2 Skywest CRJ200 flights to Chicago out of SBN in the morning that leave at 6:00 am and 7:45 am? Is it because one or more were in for maintenance and one of those flights is used to put an aircraft back on the line. Wouldn't it be simpler for UA to just combine those two flights into 1 B737-700 flight if that maintenance base wasn't there?

Both AA and DL have very good load factors and yields out of SBN and FWA and they are even better at todays fare levels. Boardings at both airports are on the increase.

The only flight that AA would like to add out of SBN is PHL if International business traffic would come back.

freakyrat · Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:45 pm

Here's why a maintenance base at SBN and FWA are important. This aircraft returned shortly after takeoff in SBN this morning. After burning off fuel it made a successful landing. No word on what the problem was.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKW ... /KSBN/KSBN

freakyrat · Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:27 pm

SBN's numbers ae out for April of 2022. One place they increased is the landed weight of cargo operations due to US using the A300-600 Freighter on 3 weekly flights. SBN also saw a tripple-digit increase in International GA flights clearing US Customs. I'm sure FWA has similar numbers as the airports run kneck and kneck each month.

https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Report.pdf

freakyrat · Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:40 pm

freakyrat wrote:
SBN's numbers ae out for April of 2022. One place they increased is the landed weight of cargo operations due to UPS using the A300-600 Freighter on 3 weekly flights. SBN also saw a tripple-digit increase in International GA flights clearing US Customs. I'm sure FWA has similar numbers as the airports run kneck and kneck each month.

https://flysbn.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... Report.pdf

freakyrat · Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:43 pm

jetskipper wrote:
With American’s latest small market cities closure list it is clear that unprofitable cities are on the chopping block. At this point in time I would say that small airports like LAF, BMG and MIE will never again see a network carrier without large incentives. Also, EVV is down to 2 network carriers, I would not be surprised to see both FWA and SBN lose either AA, UA or DL, with UA being the smallest at both airports. The days of hoping for DEN (UA) or MIA (AA) I think are over for a while.

Both AA and DL are doing well at SBN. Personally I'm flying on AA from DFW soon and when I booked the 65-seat Skywest CRJ700 only had 29 passengers booked with 4 in First. As of last week the flight has over 55 seats booked with a lot of them booked in the last week. First is almost full. Return flight the same day likewise. At least on American SBN get's a lot of last minute bookings of mostly business people that pay the higher fares. CLT flights are the same as DFW where PSA has to freely substitute a CRJ900 if needed. As far as Delta goes. Starting in September they are going to an ALL CRJ900 operation at South Bend. United is the only westbound connection out of SBN and with no connecting bus service to ORD most likely isn't going anywhere. The Skywest CRJ Maintenance base at SBN and how they rotate the aircraft in for scheduled maintenance also factors in how the airline flights operate at SBN and for that matter FWA which also has a Skywest maintenance base.

DiamondFlyer · Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:52 pm

freakyrat wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
With American’s latest small market cities closure list it is clear that unprofitable cities are on the chopping block. At this point in time I would say that small airports like LAF, BMG and MIE will never again see a network carrier without large incentives. Also, EVV is down to 2 network carriers, I would not be surprised to see both FWA and SBN lose either AA, UA or DL, with UA being the smallest at both airports. The days of hoping for DEN (UA) or MIA (AA) I think are over for a while.

Both AA and DL are doing well at SBN. Personally I'm flying on AA from DFW soon and when I booked the 65-seat Skywest CRJ700 only had 29 passengers booked with 4 in First. As of last week the flight has over 55 seats booked with a lot of them booked in the last week. First is almost full. Return flight the same day likewise. At least on American SBN get's a lot of last minute bookings of mostly business people that pay the higher fares. CLT flights are the same as DFW where PSA has to freely substitute a CRJ900 if needed. As far as Delta goes. Starting in September they are going to an ALL CRJ900 operation at South Bend. United is the only westbound connection out of SBN and with no connecting bus service to ORD most likely isn't going anywhere. The Skywest CRJ Maintenance base at SBN and how they rotate the aircraft in for scheduled maintenance also factors in how the airline flights operate at SBN and for that matter FWA which also has a Skywest maintenance base.

Which is why you'll always be stuck with regional jets at SBN and FWA, from a sub-par carrier at that. It's a shame

alancostello · Sat Jul 09, 2022 7:28 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
jetskipper wrote:
With American’s latest small market cities closure list it is clear that unprofitable cities are on the chopping block. At this point in time I would say that small airports like LAF, BMG and MIE will never again see a network carrier without large incentives. Also, EVV is down to 2 network carriers, I would not be surprised to see both FWA and SBN lose either AA, UA or DL, with UA being the smallest at both airports. The days of hoping for DEN (UA) or MIA (AA) I think are over for a while.

Both AA and DL are doing well at SBN. Personally I'm flying on AA from DFW soon and when I booked the 65-seat Skywest CRJ700 only had 29 passengers booked with 4 in First. As of last week the flight has over 55 seats booked with a lot of them booked in the last week. First is almost full. Return flight the same day likewise. At least on American SBN get's a lot of last minute bookings of mostly business people that pay the higher fares. CLT flights are the same as DFW where PSA has to freely substitute a CRJ900 if needed. As far as Delta goes. Starting in September they are going to an ALL CRJ900 operation at South Bend. United is the only westbound connection out of SBN and with no connecting bus service to ORD most likely isn't going anywhere. The Skywest CRJ Maintenance base at SBN and how they rotate the aircraft in for scheduled maintenance also factors in how the airline flights operate at SBN and for that matter FWA which also has a Skywest maintenance base.

Which is why you'll always be stuck with regional jets at SBN and FWA, from a sub-par carrier at that. It's a shame

I would much rather multiple CRJ700/CRJ900 flights throughout the day than a single A319, B717, or A220, anyone who says otherwise does not understand the value of frequency in the US domestic market nor even the size of the SBN or FWA market. Frequent CRJ service is absolutely ideal for the size of the market and the ability to connect on to other domestic (and even international) services.

freakyrat · Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:50 am

alancostello wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

Which is why you'll always be stuck with regional jets at SBN and FWA, from a sub-par carrier at that. It's a shame

I would much rather multiple CRJ700/CRJ900 flights throughout the day than a single A319, B717, or A220, anyone who says otherwise does not understand the value of frequency in the US domestic market nor even the size of the SBN or FWA market. Frequent CRJ service is absolutely ideal for the size of the market and the ability to connect on to other domestic (and even international) services.

SBN does have some Mainline from United back and forth to OHare on special Notre Dame Football Away games and some home games when they ferry a 737-800 or 900 into and out of SBN for fans from either team. There will also be some RDU flights for some of the Carolina games. The OHar Mainline will continue this football season along with Delta CRJ900's to LGA and American E175's also to LGA.

Right now with the Regional Airlines Pilot Shortage Delta does not have the crews to increase the DTW flying from SBN. They use to offeer 4 CRJ200's daily to DTW but those are going away. They are offering 1 daily CRJ900 Roundtrip. As far as Atlanta goes Delta will move all 3 daily flights to CRJ900's in September. What Delta and the Airport have been talking about is to offer a morning B717 mainline flight to Atlanta with a return in the late evening and a Noonish and Early evening CRJ900 Roundtrips. The 717's are not going away so soon at Delta as originally planned. The airport is in the middle of a rebuild and realignment of Taxiway Bravo which includes a drive through deice pad, paved taxiway shoulders and a ramp rebuild so even though they have the passengers for mainline outside of the special football flights I feel they want to keep the status quo until the ramp is finished. Delta also wants new Jetbridges on par with the Bridge on Gate 9 which includes both Ground Power and AC hookups.

Since you mentioned connections to International. Before Covid AA was working on a PHL flight similar to the lines of the one out of FWA. SBN also has plans for seasonal Cancun flights with the JV between Allegiant and Viva Aerobus but that cannot happen until Mexico improves their safety standards. The FIS was built at the request of Allegiant.

alancostello · Sun Jul 10, 2022 4:24 am

freakyrat wrote:
SBN does have some Mainline from United back and forth to OHare on special Notre Dame Football Away games and some home games when they ferry a 737-800 or 900 into and out of SBN for fans from either team. There will also be some RDU flights for some of the Carolina games. The OHar Mainline will continue this football season along with Delta CRJ900's to LGA and American E175's also to LGA.

Right now with the Regional Airlines Pilot Shortage Delta does not have the crews to increase the DTW flying from SBN. They use to offeer 4 CRJ200's daily to DTW but those are going away. They are offering 1 daily CRJ900 Roundtrip. As far as Atlanta goes Delta will move all 3 daily flights to CRJ900's in September. What Delta and the Airport have been talking about is to offer a morning B717 mainline flight to Atlanta with a return in the late evening and a Noonish and Early evening CRJ900 Roundtrips. The 717's are not going away so soon at Delta as originally planned. The airport is in the middle of a rebuild and realignment of Taxiway Bravo which includes a drive through deice pad, paved taxiway shoulders and a ramp rebuild so even though they have the passengers for mainline outside of the special football flights I feel they want to keep the status quo until the ramp is finished. Delta also wants new Jetbridges on par with the Bridge on Gate 9 which includes both Ground Power and AC hookups.

Since you mentioned connections to International. Before Covid AA was working on a PHL flight similar to the lines of the one out of FWA. SBN also has plans for seasonal Cancun flights with the JV between Allegiant and Viva Aerobus but that cannot happen until Mexico improves their safety standards. The FIS was built at the request of Allegiant.

As an SBN local and long time reader and commenter of the Indiana threads I’m well aware of these points. My comment was more to address DiamondFlyer’s message that we should somehow be ashamed or feel less than because we don’t have mainline service? Which suggests we are somehow unaware of what our market is and can support.

As a frequent ex-SBN traveler (and a 6’4” one at that) I have no problem with CRJ 700/900s, they’re perfectly comfortable rides. I’m flying SBN-CLT in September to connect on to DUB and while the outbound is great with a 75 minute connection, coming back I have a 6 hour layover in CLT, so imagine if we only had one daily frequency? I’d take 4x daily CRJs to a destination over 2 A319s in an absolute heartbeat.

freakyrat · Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:35 pm

alancostello wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

As an SBN local and long time reader and commenter of the Indiana threads I’m well aware of these points. My comment was more to address DiamondFlyer’s message that we should somehow be ashamed or feel less than because we don’t have mainline service? Which suggests we are somehow unaware of what our market is and can support.

As a frequent ex-SBN traveler (and a 6’4” one at that) I have no problem with CRJ 700/900s, they’re perfectly comfortable rides. I’m flying SBN-CLT in September to connect on to DUB and while the outbound is great with a 75 minute connection, coming back I have a 6 hour layover in CLT, so imagine if we only had one daily frequency? I’d take 4x daily CRJs to a destination over 2 A319s in an absolute heartbeat.

To bad the outside Runway at Charlotte and the trailer train hub took a lot of land and forced the BBQ place that was directly off the end of the Runway to close or you could spend some of that time there. It was definitely good. I went there once on a similar connecting time.

DiamondFlyer · Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:37 pm

alancostello wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
SBN does have some Mainline from United back and forth to OHare on special Notre Dame Football Away games and some home games when they ferry a 737-800 or 900 into and out of SBN for fans from either team. There will also be some RDU flights for some of the Carolina games. The OHar Mainline will continue this football season along with Delta CRJ900's to LGA and American E175's also to LGA.

Right now with the Regional Airlines Pilot Shortage Delta does not have the crews to increase the DTW flying from SBN. They use to offeer 4 CRJ200's daily to DTW but those are going away. They are offering 1 daily CRJ900 Roundtrip. As far as Atlanta goes Delta will move all 3 daily flights to CRJ900's in September. What Delta and the Airport have been talking about is to offer a morning B717 mainline flight to Atlanta with a return in the late evening and a Noonish and Early evening CRJ900 Roundtrips. The 717's are not going away so soon at Delta as originally planned. The airport is in the middle of a rebuild and realignment of Taxiway Bravo which includes a drive through deice pad, paved taxiway shoulders and a ramp rebuild so even though they have the passengers for mainline outside of the special football flights I feel they want to keep the status quo until the ramp is finished. Delta also wants new Jetbridges on par with the Bridge on Gate 9 which includes both Ground Power and AC hookups.

Since you mentioned connections to International. Before Covid AA was working on a PHL flight similar to the lines of the one out of FWA. SBN also has plans for seasonal Cancun flights with the JV between Allegiant and Viva Aerobus but that cannot happen until Mexico improves their safety standards. The FIS was built at the request of Allegiant.

As an SBN local and long time reader and commenter of the Indiana threads I’m well aware of these points. My comment was more to address DiamondFlyer’s message that we should somehow be ashamed or feel less than because we don’t have mainline service? Which suggests we are somehow unaware of what our market is and can support.

As a frequent ex-SBN traveler (and a 6’4” one at that) I have no problem with CRJ 700/900s, they’re perfectly comfortable rides. I’m flying SBN-CLT in September to connect on to DUB and while the outbound is great with a 75 minute connection, coming back I have a 6 hour layover in CLT, so imagine if we only had one daily frequency? I’d take 4x daily CRJs to a destination over 2 A319s in an absolute heartbeat.

I’m not saying that we should get bigger planes (I live in the FWA area), I’m saying we deserve a better carrier than the dumpster fire that is Skywest

freakyrat · Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:42 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
alancostello wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
SBN does have some Mainline from United back and forth to OHare on special Notre Dame Football Away games and some home games when they ferry a 737-800 or 900 into and out of SBN for fans from either team. There will also be some RDU flights for some of the Carolina games. The OHar Mainline will continue this football season along with Delta CRJ900's to LGA and American E175's also to LGA.

Right now with the Regional Airlines Pilot Shortage Delta does not have the crews to increase the DTW flying from SBN. They use to offer 4 CRJ200's daily to DTW but those are going away. They are offering 1 daily CRJ900 Roundtrip. As far as Atlanta goes Delta will move all 3 daily flights to CRJ900's in September. What Delta and the Airport have been talking about is to offer a morning B717 mainline flight to Atlanta with a return in the late evening and a Noonish and Early evening CRJ900 Roundtrips. The 717's are not going away so soon at Delta as originally planned. The airport is in the middle of a rebuild and realignment of Taxiway Bravo which includes a drive through deice pad, paved taxiway shoulders and a ramp rebuild so even though they have the passengers for mainline outside of the special football flights I feel they want to keep the status quo until the ramp is finished. Delta also wants new Jetbridges on par with the Bridge on Gate 9 which includes both Ground Power and AC hookups.

Since you mentioned connections to International. Before Covid AA was working on a PHL flight similar to the lines of the one out of FWA. SBN also has plans for seasonal Cancun flights with the JV between Allegiant and Viva Aerobus but that cannot happen until Mexico improves their safety standards. The FIS was built at the request of Allegiant.

As an SBN local and long time reader and commenter of the Indiana threads I’m well aware of these points. My comment was more to address DiamondFlyer’s message that we should somehow be ashamed or feel less than because we don’t have mainline service? Which suggests we are somehow unaware of what our market is and can support.

As a frequent ex-SBN traveler (and a 6’4” one at that) I have no problem with CRJ 700/900s, they’re perfectly comfortable rides. I’m flying SBN-CLT in September to connect on to DUB and while the outbound is great with a 75 minute connection, coming back I have a 6 hour layover in CLT, so imagine if we only had one daily frequency? I’d take 4x daily CRJs to a destination over 2 A319s in an absolute heartbeat.

I’m not saying that we should get bigger planes (I live in the FWA area), I’m saying we deserve a better carrier than the dumpster fire that is Skywest

I think if they had enough crews DL would return ATL flying out of both FWA and SBN to Endeavor flying CRJ900's. AS it is the Skywest CRJ900's will last till the end of Football season then Delta is going back to the crappy CRJ200's on SBN-ATL but flown by Endeavor.

freakyrat · Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:35 pm

Just thought I would post this. When I booked my American Airlines (Eagle) flight from DFW-SBN there were only 29 people booked on a 65 seat CRJ900 this stayed this way until the last 3 weeks. American got a slew of last minute bookings at Premium Fares. All 9 seats are now filled in First Class and there are 9 seats left in the various economy seats. I know this is only one flight but this is the way it is in SBN on all the airlines. SBN gets a lot of last minute bookings that fill the planes up. Must be why American and for that matter Delta and United must love the market so much.

freakyrat · Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:18 pm

jetskipper wrote:
With American’s latest small market cities closure list it is clear that unprofitable cities are on the chopping block. At this point in time I would say that small airports like LAF, BMG and MIE will never again see a network carrier without large incentives. Also, EVV is down to 2 network carriers, I would not be surprised to see both FWA and SBN lose either AA, UA or DL, with UA being the smallest at both airports. The days of hoping for DEN (UA) or MIA (AA) I think are over for a while.

I think you have couple things wrong here as far as SBN is concerned and this has been verified to me by Julie Curtis the Director of Air Service Development and Marketing for the South Bend International Airport along with Mike Daigle the Airport Director. DFW is the prime #2 Business market out of SBN with the AUS/SAT area #3 and IAH/HOU #4. Number 1 is NYC and with no direct flights is been probably been displaced by DFW. Now with my experience booking AA trips to SBN from DFW and my flight this week no exception. Up until 2 weeks ago my flight had just 29 people booked including 2 in First on a 65 seat CRJ900. Flight now has all of First filled and only 9 seats left in the back. I'll bet by flight time the plane will be full with most fares sold at a premium. American has got to love this. Its the same for the CLT 70-seater that gets in an hour earlier. Both flights are also booked solid out of SBN.

Now I do not think UA would want to start DEN or AA start MIA, however UA starting IAD to replace the EWR flights that they discontinued due to airport congestion and even IAH which they had planned before AA came back are not out of the equation.
Bringing back larger CRJ's or E170's to ORD are also a possibility.

An AA daily flight to PHL similar to the one out of FWA might also be a possibility. Right now I think that AA is satisfied with both DFW and CLT as they occasionally have had to add a third daily flight on each route to meet demand.

The airline at SBN that is hard to figure out is Delta. They appear to be leaning toward and all CRJ900 operation with a mix of Endeavor and Skywest as they are planning to end all CRJ200 flying by the end of next year. Could also see some occasional mainline with the 717 to Atlanta depending on demand as these are not leaving the fleet as originally planned. Again lot of this was originally planned by them Pre-Covid.

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