Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Chrisgoodwin82
Topic Author
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:31 am

BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:58 pm

Apparently there has been an incident at Heathrow today involving G-XWBC inbound from Dubai. The aircraft apparently landed and then took off again due to a technical issue. Apparently the aircraft was met by the police and the runway closed.

Does anyone have a more info?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... Md8TytoiMc
Last edited by qf789 on Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: New information
 
User avatar
JannEejit
Posts: 2016
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Heathrow Incident today..

Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:13 pm

There was another UK news link earlier suggesting a runway blockage affecting an aircraft landing, due to either a fox on the runway, or a bird strike. Whether or not it refers to the same aircraft mentioned above, I don't know ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... DLIFE.html
 
sand26391
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: BA A350 incident at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:32 pm

On a seperate event, Even BA118 was diverted to LCA on 01JAN, while coming in from BLR. Any idea of this?
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 12461
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: BA A350 incident at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:46 pm

XWBC suffered a tail strike while attempting to land at LHR yesterday

Image

https://twitter.com/mzulqarnainbut1/sta ... 14496?s=21
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:50 pm

On the upside, I don't see any areas of bubbling paint :duck:
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1825
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:02 pm

I wonder if they have had a tailstrike yet on the all composite 350. Or the 787 for that matter. It's a very different repair than with an aluminum airplane.

And then there is the airmanship issue. Isn't it hard to tailstrike a FBW aircraft?
 
pugman211
Posts: 613
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:10 pm

KingOrGod wrote:
On the upside, I don't see any areas of bubbling paint :duck:


There was, but the pilot got rid of it. Lol
 
fcogafa
Posts: 1431
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:16 pm

Wonder if the A350 did a late touch and go because they saw the fox on the runway. There is certainly a lot of drivel in those newspaper reports.
 
User avatar
MrHMSH
Posts: 3121
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:51 pm

Only shocker is that it wasn't G-XWBD, which is reputed to be the Hangar Queen of the fleet! (IIRC!)
 
11C
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:23 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
SteelChair wrote:
I wonder if they have had a tailstrike yet on the all composite 350. Or the 787 for that matter. It's a very different repair than with an aluminum airplane.

And then there is the airmanship issue. Isn't it hard to tailstrike a FBW aircraft?


I assume it has the “pitch” warning, as newer narrow body Airbus’ aircraft have, yet, it’s still possible to tail strike an A321, or even an A320.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 2149
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: BA A350 incident at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:24 pm

qf789 wrote:
XWBC suffered a tail strike while attempting to land at LHR yesterday

Image

https://twitter.com/mzulqarnainbut1/sta ... 14496?s=21

AD for tail skid installation inbound?
 
by738
Posts: 3299
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:03 pm

would it not need to be about a 45deg angle to skid an A351 - it sits quite high?
Any other tail strike similar cases?
The theory that carbon fibre cant easily be repaired is old news. Was thoroughly planned-for at time of design. How many have been scrapped (not scraped!) as a result?
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 27463
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:21 pm

Lots of comments here suitable for (NSFW) Vulture's Row.

11C wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
I wonder if they have had a tailstrike yet on the all composite 350. Or the 787 for that matter. It's a very different repair than with an aluminum airplane.

And then there is the airmanship issue. Isn't it hard to tailstrike a FBW aircraft?

I assume it has the “pitch” warning, as newer narrow body Airbus’ aircraft have, yet, it’s still possible to tail strike an A321, or even an A320.

Even worse, it's also possible to land gear up and have a dual pod strike and trash the engines on an A32x, as PIA unfortunately has demonstrated.
 
11C
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: BA A350 incident at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:04 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
qf789 wrote:
XWBC suffered a tail strike while attempting to land at LHR yesterday

Image

https://twitter.com/mzulqarnainbut1/sta ... 14496?s=21

AD for tail skid installation inbound?


Judging from the photo, it must have been a very minimal tail strike, not that it’s any help. A tail strike is still very undesirable. I have no idea what pitch correlates to a gear extended/compressed tail strike on an A350.
 
Noshow
Posts: 3389
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:20 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:14 pm

Interesting to have this happen on a landing. The speeds they were at are interesting and the flap setting used.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: BA A350 incident at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:28 pm

11C wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
qf789 wrote:
XWBC suffered a tail strike while attempting to land at LHR yesterday

Image

https://twitter.com/mzulqarnainbut1/sta ... 14496?s=21

AD for tail skid installation inbound?


Judging from the photo, it must have been a very minimal tail strike, not that it’s any help. A tail strike is still very undesirable. I have no idea what pitch correlates to a gear extended/compressed tail strike on an A350.

It appears to be more than just superficial damage. That panel looks like it will need to be replaced which looks like rivets have to be be removed. It's hard to tell exactly how long this rash is but it does make you wonder what kind of pitch this aircraft was at.
 
MON
Posts: 129
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:54 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:58 pm

All the Airbus I've flown it has been possible to scrape the tail. I don't have the A350-1000 figures to hand but for comparison the A330-300 will scrape the tail with compressed landing gear at a pitch in excess of 11.5 degrees and so I suspect the quote of 45 degrees pitch is wrong.

As a side note I think that picture on first inspection looks far worse than it is because of the large streak on the left hand side of the picture that appears to not be a scrape but rather a fluid streak.
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1646
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:02 pm

MON wrote:

As a side note I think that picture on first inspection looks far worse than it is because of the large streak on the left hand side of the picture that appears to not be a scrape but rather a fluid streak.


The large streak on the left hand side is. I believe the reflection of the stand centreline .
 
m1m2
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:39 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:26 pm

Those dark areas forward of that panel would concern me the most. Kind of looks like it's worn through the paint, primer and a couple of layers of Composite material in the FWD L/H damaged area.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3969
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:00 pm

I thought Airbus FBW prevented incidents like this?
 
StTim
Posts: 3990
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:13 pm

william wrote:
I thought Airbus FBW prevented incidents like this?


I think the systems reduce but cannot eliminate tail strikes.
 
jimmy9irons
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:28 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:46 pm

11C wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
SteelChair wrote:
I wonder if they have had a tailstrike yet on the all composite 350. Or the 787 for that matter. It's a very different repair than with an aluminum airplane.

And then there is the airmanship issue. Isn't it hard to tailstrike a FBW aircraft?


I assume it has the “pitch” warning, as newer narrow body Airbus’ aircraft have, yet, it’s still possible to tail strike an A321, or even an A320.

It was actually a 747 which PIA landed with the landing gear retracted.
 
User avatar
AirKevin
Posts: 1168
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:18 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:53 pm

by738 wrote:
would it not need to be about a 45deg angle to skid an A351 - it sits quite high?

I am pretty sure you will tailstrike every airplane if you have a 45° pitch angle.
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 3100
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:40 am

Do we know yet if they will have to write it off?
 
airplanedriver6
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:27 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:45 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Do we know yet if they will have to write it off?

No.

That said, I suspect the likelihood of that is very low. Even a very expensive repair is cheaper than a new A350.
 
Caspian27
Posts: 249
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:48 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:15 am

jimmy9irons wrote:
11C wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
SteelChair wrote:
I wonder if they have had a tailstrike yet on the all composite 350. Or the 787 for that matter. It's a very different repair than with an aluminum airplane.

And then there is the airmanship issue. Isn't it hard to tailstrike a FBW aircraft?


I assume it has the “pitch” warning, as newer narrow body Airbus’ aircraft have, yet, it’s still possible to tail strike an A321, or even an A320.

It was actually a 747 which PIA landed with the landing gear retracted.


There was an accident in May of 2020 where PIA landed an A320 gear up, went around and later crashed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakista ... light_8303
 
skipness1E
Posts: 5198
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:29 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Do we know yet if they will have to write it off?

What make you think a tailscrape would write off an almost new A350. I mean people come on!!
 
UPS757Pilot
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:22 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:46 am

skipness1E wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Do we know yet if they will have to write it off?

What make you think a tailscrape would write off an almost new A350. I mean people come on!!

It’s sarcasm - the running joke anytime a jet has an incident on this forum.
 
BoeingG
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:01 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:48 am

How unfortunate. I presume the pilot(s) will be terminated in due time?
 
User avatar
DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 3100
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:54 am

UPS757Pilot wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Do we know yet if they will have to write it off?

What make you think a tailscrape would write off an almost new A350. I mean people come on!!

It’s sarcasm - the running joke anytime a jet has an incident on this forum.



Ding. Winner!
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 11391
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:54 am

jimmy9irons wrote:
11C wrote:
[photoid][/photoid]
SteelChair wrote:
I wonder if they have had a tailstrike yet on the all composite 350. Or the 787 for that matter. It's a very different repair than with an aluminum airplane.

And then there is the airmanship issue. Isn't it hard to tailstrike a FBW aircraft?


I assume it has the “pitch” warning, as newer narrow body Airbus’ aircraft have, yet, it’s still possible to tail strike an A321, or even an A320.

It was actually a 747 which PIA landed with the landing gear retracted.

On the A320 I think the poster was referring to the accident in the link below
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/pia ... 79.article
 
tonforty
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 5:57 am

Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:57 am


    Surely no way a write off.
     
    jetwet1
    Posts: 3556
    Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:26 am

    BoeingG wrote:
    How unfortunate. I presume the pilot(s) will be terminated in due time?


    BA, not EK, so no, they will try and learn something from this.
     
    BoeingG
    Posts: 140
    Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:01 pm

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:27 am

    jetwet1 wrote:
    BoeingG wrote:
    How unfortunate. I presume the pilot(s) will be terminated in due time?


    BA, not EK, so no, they will try and learn something from this.


    Then how will they be reprimanded? Demotions? Pay cut? Suspension?
     
    StTim
    Posts: 3990
    Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:57 am

    BoeingG wrote:
    jetwet1 wrote:
    BoeingG wrote:
    How unfortunate. I presume the pilot(s) will be terminated in due time?


    BA, not EK, so no, they will try and learn something from this.


    Then how will they be reprimanded? Demotions? Pay cut? Suspension?

    Maybe they will have an investigation to find out all the causes. Thanks nice these are known they will consider what, if any, sanctions are required.
     
    Pontius
    Posts: 90
    Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 pm

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:16 am

    Vmu demonstrations nicely picture the actual tailstrike attitude.

    Image
     
    LAXLHR
    Posts: 512
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:07 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:19 am

    It was incredibly windy at LHR yesterday, with a high number of go-arounds. I suspect this played into the tail strike?
     
    ordpark
    Posts: 649
    Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:20 pm

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:36 am

    How's the Fox?
     
    LAXLHR
    Posts: 512
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:07 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:09 am

    ordpark wrote:
    How's the Fox?


    The fox seemed very happy galloping down towards T3 (where the AA jets usually park). Nearly got runover, but kept going. It would trot, run, take a wee etc...haha Was watching on YT: big jet tv :-D
     
    User avatar
    ssteve
    Posts: 1550
    Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:33 am

    StTim wrote:
    they will consider what, if any, sanctions are required.


    The perpetrators are buffing blistering paint in the Qatar heat until which point they will be allowed supervised visits with the cockpit.
     
    BrianDromey
    Posts: 3289
    Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:55 am

    BoeingG wrote:
    jetwet1 wrote:
    BoeingG wrote:
    How unfortunate. I presume the pilot(s) will be terminated in due time?


    BA, not EK, so no, they will try and learn something from this.


    Then how will they be reprimanded? Demotions? Pay cut? Suspension?


    From my understanding of the UK CAA and the culture within BA, thats not how things are done. I have been lucky enough to attend their training centre for a non-flight relate course and I was left with an extremely high impression of the training standards and safety expectations at BA. There will be a CAA and BA investigation into the circumstances that happened. It might also be that the crew were relatively unfamiliar with the A350 in poor weather conditions - its a new and expanding fleet at BA and a lot of the crew have been flying reduced hours with the pandemic. Perhaps they ‘fell back’ on manoeuvres they would get away with on an A380/747 or even 777/320 due to this.

    I doubt anyone will be ‘fired’, ‘ended’ or ‘terminated’. I’m sure BA will use it as a ‘lessons learned’ event.
     
    crownvic
    Posts: 3049
    Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:02 am

    BigJetTV caught the whole incident from a distance..At the 2:42 mark.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK_4SCZTxig&t=10825s
     
    TC957
    Posts: 4411
    Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:34 am

    I'm surprised a fox could have got into LHR airside like that. I know LGW has them airside as there's more open space between the main runway and the southern perimeter fence, but LHR ? It's all built up all around the place. And the grass surrounding the runways and taxiways is kept quite short.
     
    kalvado
    Posts: 3729
    Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:40 am

    BrianDromey wrote:
    BoeingG wrote:
    jetwet1 wrote:

    BA, not EK, so no, they will try and learn something from this.


    Then how will they be reprimanded? Demotions? Pay cut? Suspension?


    From my understanding of the UK CAA and the culture within BA, thats not how things are done. I have been lucky enough to attend their training centre for a non-flight relate course and I was left with an extremely high impression of the training standards and safety expectations at BA. There will be a CAA and BA investigation into the circumstances that happened. It might also be that the crew were relatively unfamiliar with the A350 in poor weather conditions - its a new and expanding fleet at BA and a lot of the crew have been flying reduced hours with the pandemic. Perhaps they ‘fell back’ on manoeuvres they would get away with on an A380/747 or even 777/320 due to this.

    I doubt anyone will be ‘fired’, ‘ended’ or ‘terminated’. I’m sure BA will use it as a ‘lessons learned’ event.

    BA38 captain is said to leave the company under peer pressure, although eventually returned (I wonder if that was under PR pressure).
     
    kaitak
    Posts: 10177
    Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:56 am

    TC957 wrote:
    I'm surprised a fox could have got into LHR airside like that. I know LGW has them airside as there's more open space between the main runway and the southern perimeter fence, but LHR ? It's all built up all around the place. And the grass surrounding the runways and taxiways is kept quite short.


    Maybe he outfoxed security! You should visit Dublin sometime; there's quite a decent sized population of hares around the runways. There was an occasion where one was ingested into the engine of an A330 on departure. You can just guess the number of puns on Irish aviation websites - "Ireland's first harestrike", "Bunny chow", "hare today, gone tomorrow" etc!

    Back to the subject, I think that the culture of BA in dealing with something like this, versus the way EK deals with its recent incident is instructive and interesting. BA has an open safety culture, which prioritises safety over image. That means that it recognises that errors will be made and that you cannot complete excise human error from aviation, BUT you can learn from it. That doesn't mean that if you make an almighty cock-up arising from negligence, you won't be fired, but it does mean that they will look at factors and that the image of the airline will not be the driving factor in determining the outcome of a safety investigation. I don't want to prejudice what EK will do in relation to the recent incident, because some of the news and forum rumours are not true (the crew has not been sacked, although they're obviously not flying at the moment), but let's just say that there are likely to be significant differences in the way both airlines handle similar incidents.

    It is also fair to say that what happened at DXB is far more serious than what happened with the A35K at LHR.
     
    ScottishDavie
    Posts: 231
    Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:48 pm

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:00 pm

    kalvado wrote:

    BA38 captain is said to leave the company under peer pressure, although eventually returned (I wonder if that was under PR pressure).


    Don't believe everything you read in the UK media. Captain Burkhill took voluntary redundancy thinking (wrongly) that he would walk in to a job with another major carrier. His book "Thirty Seconds to Impact" is an interesting read although inevitably self-serving.
     
    musang
    Posts: 820
    Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 4:11 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:31 pm

    kaitak wrote:
    TC957 wrote:
    I'm surprised a fox could have got into LHR airside like that. I know LGW has them airside as there's more open space between the main runway and the southern perimeter fence, but LHR ? It's all built up all around the place. And the grass surrounding the runways and taxiways is kept quite short.


    Maybe he outfoxed security! You should visit Dublin sometime; there's quite a decent sized population of hares around the runways. There was an occasion where one was ingested into the engine of an A330 on departure. You can just guess the number of puns on Irish aviation websites - "Ireland's first harestrike", "Bunny chow", "hare today, gone tomorrow" etc!

    Back to the subject, I think that the culture of BA in dealing with something like this, versus the way EK deals with its recent incident is instructive and interesting. BA has an open safety culture, which prioritises safety over image. That means that it recognises that errors will be made and that you cannot complete excise human error from aviation, BUT you can learn from it. That doesn't mean that if you make an almighty cock-up arising from negligence, you won't be fired, but it does mean that they will look at factors and that the image of the airline will not be the driving factor in determining the outcome of a safety investigation. I don't want to prejudice what EK will do in relation to the recent incident, because some of the news and forum rumours are not true (the crew has not been sacked, although they're obviously not flying at the moment), but let's just say that there are likely to be significant differences in the way both airlines handle similar incidents.

    It is also fair to say that what happened at DXB is far more serious than what happened with the A35K at LHR.


    Yes. Pilots will of course be interviewed but unless they have seriously messed up, they will not be worried and will see it as part of the usual investigation process. Possibly they may be given a quick sim session, but that may only be for the sake of BA being seen to do something about it, depending of course on what actually happened and we are all conjecturising at this point.

    Closest I got was a trainee captain tail scraping an Avro RJ 100 at London City, by over-rotating, with a BA subsidiary/franchise carrier. Mitigating factors were that it was his first LCY launch, the bridge and light poles looming towards us beyond the end of the runway, and the fact that his previous type required a pull through a dead zone before any pitch effect took place. We felt nothing and the damage was noticed next walk round inspection. Skid protector strip was replaced and that was it. Obviously I called the chief about it, but no CAA involvement as far as I know.

    The trainee went on to be a captain as expected, and I continued my various instructor duties. To my knowledge someone else scraped one on landing at LCY, and someone did same in one of the other franchise operators. No demotions. No drama.

    As for the fox, the fact that LHR is surrounded by built up areas is irrelevant. Urban foxes are so named for a reason. Grass is cut to a standard depth, determined by bird nesting habits. I wouldn't be surprised if there as as many foxes at LHR as LGW, but would be surprised that one was being so brave during daylight.
     
    User avatar
    sassiciai
    Posts: 1184
    Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:26 pm

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:45 pm

    I would appreciate being told why landing an aircraft of the dimensions of an A350 should be aborted as late as this appears to have been because of a fox running about. Could a strike with such a relatively light animal really result is damage (as much as this tail strike has done) worth the risks involved?

    I have heard of incidents in more "rural" airports in Africa, India, etc where aircraft much smaller in all measures than an A350 have collided with domestic animals and continued apparently without incident (maybe not for the animal concerned)
     
    kaitak
    Posts: 10177
    Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:48 pm

    musang wrote:
    kaitak wrote:
    TC957 wrote:
    I'm surprised a fox could have got into LHR airside like that. I know LGW has them airside as there's more open space between the main runway and the southern perimeter fence, but LHR ? It's all built up all around the place. And the grass surrounding the runways and taxiways is kept quite short.


    Maybe he outfoxed security! You should visit Dublin sometime; there's quite a decent sized population of hares around the runways. There was an occasion where one was ingested into the engine of an A330 on departure. You can just guess the number of puns on Irish aviation websites - "Ireland's first harestrike", "Bunny chow", "hare today, gone tomorrow" etc!

    Back to the subject, I think that the culture of BA in dealing with something like this, versus the way EK deals with its recent incident is instructive and interesting. BA has an open safety culture, which prioritises safety over image. That means that it recognises that errors will be made and that you cannot complete excise human error from aviation, BUT you can learn from it. That doesn't mean that if you make an almighty cock-up arising from negligence, you won't be fired, but it does mean that they will look at factors and that the image of the airline will not be the driving factor in determining the outcome of a safety investigation. I don't want to prejudice what EK will do in relation to the recent incident, because some of the news and forum rumours are not true (the crew has not been sacked, although they're obviously not flying at the moment), but let's just say that there are likely to be significant differences in the way both airlines handle similar incidents.

    It is also fair to say that what happened at DXB is far more serious than what happened with the A35K at LHR.


    Yes. Pilots will of course be interviewed but unless they have seriously messed up, they will not be worried and will see it as part of the usual investigation process. Possibly they may be given a quick sim session, but that may only be for the sake of BA being seen to do something about it, depending of course on what actually happened and we are all conjecturising at this point.

    Closest I got was a trainee captain tail scraping an Avro RJ 100 at London City, by over-rotating, with a BA subsidiary/franchise carrier. Mitigating factors were that it was his first LCY launch, the bridge and light poles looming towards us beyond the end of the runway, and the fact that his previous type required a pull through a dead zone before any pitch effect took place. We felt nothing and the damage was noticed next walk round inspection. Skid protector strip was replaced and that was it. Obviously I called the chief about it, but no CAA involvement as far as I know.

    The trainee went on to be a captain as expected, and I continued my various instructor duties. To my knowledge someone else scraped one on landing at LCY, and someone did same in one of the other franchise operators. No demotions. No drama.

    As for the fox, the fact that LHR is surrounded by built up areas is irrelevant. Urban foxes are so named for a reason. Grass is cut to a standard depth, determined by bird nesting habits. I wouldn't be surprised if there as as many foxes at LHR as LGW, but would be surprised that one was being so brave during daylight.


    I can't help wondering what kind of reception this Swiss crew got when they got home!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c0eaofrdTo
     
    kalvado
    Posts: 3729
    Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

    Re: BA A350 tail strike at Heathrow on Jan. 2

    Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:06 pm

    ScottishDavie wrote:
    kalvado wrote:

    BA38 captain is said to leave the company under peer pressure, although eventually returned (I wonder if that was under PR pressure).


    Don't believe everything you read in the UK media. Captain Burkhill took voluntary redundancy thinking (wrongly) that he would walk in to a job with another major carrier. His book "Thirty Seconds to Impact" is an interesting read although inevitably self-serving.

    "UK" is an unnecesary word there. Still:
    He did leave for whatever reason. He wrote some nasty words about the company as he left. And yes, pressing people into voluntary leaving is a well known approach.
    As far as I understand, 5 months of grounding following the accident were also a safety measure...
    And despite being publicly critical about the company, he was re-hired.

    It all doesn't add up to a simple story for me. So I am still going to assume that rosy picture sometimes doesn't survive a crash into reality...

    Popular Searches On Airliners.net

    Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

    Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

    Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

    Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

    Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

    Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

    Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

    Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

    Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

    Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

    Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

    Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

    Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

    Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

    Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos