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akelley728
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Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:25 pm

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A pilot who crashed a small plane onto railroad tracks was pulled alive from the wreck by a group of Los Angeles Police officers just moments before a commuter train roared through, authorities said.

Video of the harrowing rescue shows the officers pulling the bloodied man to safety seconds before the commuter train, blaring its horn, smashed the Cessna 172 into pieces....

https://apnews.com/article/los-angeles- ... 97409d923f

All I can say is major kudos to the police officers for putting their lives on the line and saving this man moments before certain death!
 
jetskipper
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:35 pm

I though for sure this was titled incorrectly!
 
slcguy
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:25 pm

Talk about having a bad day, crash in a plane then nearly get hit by a train.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:36 pm

There is another video out there showing two blokes running into the direction of the the plane wreck, in the background you can hear the train using his horn as a warning, and then parts of the wreck are landing in between the two blokes. I guess they wanted to apply for this year’s Darwin award :roll:
 
YYZYYT
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:39 pm

Now that is a tough call, you're going down and looking for a straight clear patch to land... roads presumable jammed at rush hour, but look - a clear straight train track.

But how log until a train comes, and will it be able to stop? Better to take the risk rather than hit a building at gliding speed (at least you won't wort anyone on the ground)?
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:39 pm

The videos of this event are absolutely insane, like something out of an action movie. It got my pulse up just watching it. The police were courageous and the pilot is lucky to be alive - they got him out with literally seconds to spare.

The second angle of the guy filming adjacent to the tracks is equally wild. Quite idiotically, this man is standing immediately down range from the fuselage, and it looks like he came very close to being decapitated by a part that flies in his direction after the train obliterates the plane.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/9155052002
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:48 pm

That was an amazing display of self-sacrifice on the part of those officers rescuing that pilot. It made my morning to see it.
 
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ntehrani
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:02 pm

You've heard of elf on a shelf, but have you heard of
 
wjcandee
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:15 pm

Remarkable video. Very sad that the responses to the Tweet from LAPD are filled with such puerile and hateful comments. I'm triggered. I need a safe space now.

Also thinking that PD needs a more-robust way of communicating with train dispatchers, who could change signals or, if the train has passed the last signal before the crossing, instruct it by radio, which might have allowed it to slow or perhaps even stop. Here in NY, there's usually a railroad emergency number and location identifier posted by crossings. Don't know if they have that in Cali.
 
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william
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:30 pm

Surely, the communication sequence with the railroad will be investigated and changes made. It was a local suburban train so getting in touch with the Dispatcher should not have been that hard (unless it was on UP or BNSF tracks).
 
wjcandee
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:41 pm

william wrote:
Surely, the communication sequence with the railroad will be investigated and changes made. It was a local suburban train so getting in touch with the Dispatcher should not have been that hard (unless it was on UP or BNSF tracks).


You're right. I now see where the first officer on the scene says he contacted the railroad. Let's hope they take the investigation as seriously as they would if the train had arrived 5 seconds earlier...

Even at a big railroad like UP or BNSF, they have centralized dispatching centers and the ability to see quickly whether trains are in the vicinity of a location and change signals and/or radio the train, so if the communication links and procedures are reliable and smart, even a 2-mile-long freight could have safely been brought to a stop given enough time.

If you look at Twitter, there are already a zillion "why was the train going so fast in a densely-populated area" posts. That should scare the crap out of Metrolink (and the area's railroads), because railroads operate at the speeds they do based upon centuries-old understandings with the areas they serve. We just spent billions on Positive Train Control to prevent what were otherwise very-rare accidents. Crossing collisions with disabled vehicles ARE common, and would seem to be more-readily-preventable if first responders have clear, authenticated access to train dispatch, with specific procedures in place at the railroad.

That train looked to be pretty-close to track speed, which means that the throttle was likely retarded and brakes applied only when the scene came into view of the engineer. No reason to risk the train and its passengers by going into emergency, because it would likely have been futile as of the moment of application.

Amazing how real-life can be even more remarkable than fiction... Takeoff in your 172 on a nice day, engine failure, where-to-land?, survive crash landing on RR tracks, police respond and secure area, then unwarned train bears down, brave police pull you to safety 3 seconds before impact. If I wrote that, an editor would tell me it was trite and implausible. Guess not...
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:55 pm

wjcandee wrote:
william wrote:
Surely, the communication sequence with the railroad will be investigated and changes made. It was a local suburban train so getting in touch with the Dispatcher should not have been that hard (unless it was on UP or BNSF tracks).


You're right. I now see where the first officer on the scene says he contacted the railroad. Let's hope they take the investigation as seriously as they would if the train had arrived 5 seconds earlier...

Even at a big railroad like UP or BNSF, they have centralized dispatching centers and the ability to see quickly whether trains are in the vicinity of a location and change signals and/or radio the train, so if the communication links and procedures are reliable and smart, even a 2-mile-long freight could have safely been brought to a stop given enough time.

If you look at Twitter, there are already a zillion "why was the train going so fast in a densely-populated area" posts. That should scare the crap out of Metrolink (and the area's railroads), because railroads operate at the speeds they do based upon centuries-old understandings with the areas they serve. We just spent billions on Positive Train Control to prevent what were otherwise very-rare accidents. Crossing collisions with disabled vehicles ARE common, and would seem to be more-readily-preventable if first responders have clear, authenticated access to train dispatch, with specific procedures in place at the railroad.

That train looked to be pretty-close to track speed, which means that the throttle was likely retarded and brakes applied only when the scene came into view of the engineer. No reason to risk the train and its passengers by going into emergency, because it would likely have been futile as of the moment of application.

Amazing how real-life can be even more remarkable than fiction... Takeoff in your 172 on a nice day, engine failure, where-to-land?, survive crash landing on RR tracks, police respond and secure area, then unwarned train bears down, brave police pull you to safety 3 seconds before impact. If I wrote that, an editor would tell me it was trite and implausible. Guess not...

You can't hear any braking action from the train, and it seem to be going full speed; it was short and light, it should have been able to slow down quite a bit (even if not able to fully stop).
I think there was a huge failure from the train conductor to react to an emergency on the track.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:01 pm

There’s always a lot of layman optimism on how much control the train engineer and dispatcher has in cases like this one. From my conversation with engineers in my squadron, admittedly pre-PTC, it’s impossible to stop a train based on visual sightings approaching a grade crossing. Two of the three had collisions at crossings with vehicles.
 
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william
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:07 pm

It is common for Police to have a number to the railroad's Dispatcher Office for cases such as this. The Dispatcher throws up Red signals when notified of a crossing accident. Not saying it would have stopped this from happening but the communication aspect will be investigated.

Its been stated a freight train hitting a car is akin to someone in a car running over an empty Coke can. A Metrolink train traveling 70-79 mph titting a Cessna 172 crashed on the tracks must have been like going through paper mache.
 
Newark727
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:15 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Here in NY, there's usually a railroad emergency number and location identifier posted by crossings. Don't know if they have that in Cali.


They do, but this might have unfolded too quickly for much to be done with that. I've been to Whiteman Airport; the tracks run parallel with the runway there, separated only by a drainage ditch, and the article says the Cessna crashed "shortly after takeoff."
 
Breathe
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:25 pm

Wow! :eek: Good job by the police to make sure the pilot got out of there alive!

I wonder what was going through the mind of the train driver seeing a plane on the train tracks! He/she must have thought of the worst case scenario of derailment in those few seconds.

Reuters have a video of the incident here for those who are geo-restricted to view the USA Today article:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg5Zi2AqTXE
 
Breathe
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:33 pm

william wrote:
It is common for Police to have a number to the railroad's Dispatcher Office for cases such as this. The Dispatcher throws up Red signals when notified of a crossing accident. Not saying it would have stopped this from happening but the communication aspect will be investigated.

Its been stated a freight train hitting a car is akin to someone in a car running over an empty Coke can. A Metrolink train traveling 70-79 mph titting a Cessna 172 crashed on the tracks must have been like going through paper mache.

More like a sheet of rice paper judging by the video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg5Zi2AqTXE

Despite thankfully nobody dying as a result of this incident, the train driver may have psychological issues as a result of this near death experience. I've met a train driver who had to deal with a person committing suicide on the tracks seeing them from a "technically" far distance but know even though they've applied the emergency breaking system they are going to collide with the person (unless they have a last second change of mind and step off the tracks) due to the speed and stopping distance of the train.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:49 pm

Dang how many minutes before did he crash? You’d think they could call the Amtrak to stop the train. But maybe not if he crashed like a minute before
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:59 pm

A passenger train traveling at 55 mph may take a half a mile or more to stop. A freight train traveling at 55 mph may take at least a mile or more to stop. Stopping distances often exceed lines of sight, so in many cases a train cannot stop in time to avoid hitting something on the tracks.
 
masonh2479
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:00 pm

I hope the pilot is alright, he looked pretty bloodied. It will be interesting to see what exactly went wrong with the plane/engine to cause the crash.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:06 pm

slcguy wrote:
Talk about having a bad day, crash in a plane then nearly get hit by a train.

Cue the two Spider-Man NTSB investigators meme….
 
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STT757
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:10 pm

The guy walking towards the scene filming when the train hit the plane was lucky. That was a large piece of metal that flew right past his head.
 
IADCA
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:13 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
A passenger train traveling at 55 mph may take a half a mile or more to stop. A freight train traveling at 55 mph may take at least a mile or more to stop. Stopping distances often exceed lines of sight, so in many cases a train cannot stop in time to avoid hitting something on the tracks.


Yes, but any significant braking action will still result in a much less serious collision, and - as almost became tragic in this case - would delay the collision by a critical few seconds. This train appeared to still be going full speed or nearly so (and there's no audible braking sound in the videos I've seen until after the collision). If this train had been a few seconds later, it'd be a lot less dramatic on video. If it had been a few seconds earlier, it'd have been deadly. Seconds do matter.

To be clear, I'm not blaming the train operator. He/she could have gotten a warning that would have helped. Otherwise a plane on the tracks is like hearing hoofbeats and thinking zebras; you'd naturally think it was a car and hit the emergency brakes when you saw it was on the tracks and stationary, which is nowhere near enough time to stop. And this plane was white, making it even harder to see against a daytime background.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:27 pm

IADCA wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
A passenger train traveling at 55 mph may take a half a mile or more to stop. A freight train traveling at 55 mph may take at least a mile or more to stop. Stopping distances often exceed lines of sight, so in many cases a train cannot stop in time to avoid hitting something on the tracks.


Yes, but any significant braking action will still result in a much less serious collision, and - as almost became tragic in this case - would delay the collision by a critical few seconds. This train appeared to still be going full speed or nearly so (and there's no audible braking sound in the videos I've seen until after the collision). If this train had been a few seconds later, it'd be a lot less dramatic on video. If it had been a few seconds earlier, it'd have been deadly. Seconds do matter.


While true on the aspect of giving time to the revisers, I’ve seen a Conrail demo where their loco hit a car at no more than 10 mph and nobody would have survived.

There are loads of You Tube videos demonstrated the destructive power of even a slow moving train.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:33 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Remarkable video. Very sad that the responses to the Tweet from LAPD are filled with such puerile and hateful comments. I'm triggered. I need a safe space now.

Also thinking that PD needs a more-robust way of communicating with train dispatchers, who could change signals or, if the train has passed the last signal before the crossing, instruct it by radio, which might have allowed it to slow or perhaps even stop. Here in NY, there's usually a railroad emergency number and location identifier posted by crossings. Don't know if they have that in Cali.


I operated trains for a few years. There are ways to get into contact with us, but at that speed and lack of time to get the warning to the engineer would have been impossible. I am also certain the train was at full emergency brakes at the time of impact. I'm pretty sure Cali has the same program as NY.

I would love to see the train operators face when he first saw what looked like a plane on the tracks! I can guarantee he or she had to shake their head in disbelief. The worst feeling in the world for me was seeing something obstructing the tracks and knowing I wasn't going to be able to stop on time.

Those officers saved that pilots life!
 
masonh2479
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:33 pm

 
F9Animal
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:35 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
IADCA wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
A passenger train traveling at 55 mph may take a half a mile or more to stop. A freight train traveling at 55 mph may take at least a mile or more to stop. Stopping distances often exceed lines of sight, so in many cases a train cannot stop in time to avoid hitting something on the tracks.


Yes, but any significant braking action will still result in a much less serious collision, and - as almost became tragic in this case - would delay the collision by a critical few seconds. This train appeared to still be going full speed or nearly so (and there's no audible braking sound in the videos I've seen until after the collision). If this train had been a few seconds later, it'd be a lot less dramatic on video. If it had been a few seconds earlier, it'd have been deadly. Seconds do matter.


While true on the aspect of giving time to the revisers, I’ve seen a Conrail demo where their loco hit a car at no more than 10 mph and nobody would have survived.

There are loads of You Tube videos demonstrated the destructive power of even a slow moving train.


I have operated trains. Even the slightest amount of moisture adds to the near impossible potential to stop in time. I know Los Angeles had a bunch of fog yesterday, and there is no doubt there was a little moisture on those tracks. Full brakes and applying sand won't do a thing unfortunately.
 
777
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:40 pm

One day I will die, but not today!

Amazing!
 
blockski
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:45 pm

william wrote:
It is common for Police to have a number to the railroad's Dispatcher Office for cases such as this. The Dispatcher throws up Red signals when notified of a crossing accident. Not saying it would have stopped this from happening but the communication aspect will be investigated.

Its been stated a freight train hitting a car is akin to someone in a car running over an empty Coke can. A Metrolink train traveling 70-79 mph titting a Cessna 172 crashed on the tracks must have been like going through paper mache.


The empty weight of a Cessna 172 is what, 1,600 pounds? That's like half the weight of a Toyota Corolla.

As for the dispatchers, I'll be curious what actions the police took and the precise timing here. Lots of railroad grade crossings have a phone number posted for the police (or anyone) to contact the dispatch in a case of emergency. I'm curious if that were done here, either via the phone or via some kind of link the LAPD might have to the railroad.

Just looking at the location from google maps (the grade crossing was of Osborne St at San Fernando Road), you can see the end of the runway. Also, there's an LAPD station half a block away, which explains why the Police were able to respond so quickly...

https://goo.gl/maps/hzqCokA4pf6mveBr6
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:47 pm

Train tracks at the end of the runway. How common is that?
 
rampbro
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:50 pm

Maybe the hostler was pulsing the brakes, or released them prior to impact. I seem to recall learning somewhere that it was better to have some power applied at the moment of collision (or at least not be braking) as it reduces the likelihood of a derail. I could definitely be wrong on this.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:52 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Train tracks at the end of the runway. How common is that?


Welcome to the developed world.

There is a major rail line at the north end of the runway at CLT too.
 
IADCA
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:07 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
IADCA wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
A passenger train traveling at 55 mph may take a half a mile or more to stop. A freight train traveling at 55 mph may take at least a mile or more to stop. Stopping distances often exceed lines of sight, so in many cases a train cannot stop in time to avoid hitting something on the tracks.


Yes, but any significant braking action will still result in a much less serious collision, and - as almost became tragic in this case - would delay the collision by a critical few seconds. This train appeared to still be going full speed or nearly so (and there's no audible braking sound in the videos I've seen until after the collision). If this train had been a few seconds later, it'd be a lot less dramatic on video. If it had been a few seconds earlier, it'd have been deadly. Seconds do matter.


While true on the aspect of giving time to the revisers, I’ve seen a Conrail demo where their loco hit a car at no more than 10 mph and nobody would have survived.

There are loads of You Tube videos demonstrated the destructive power of even a slow moving train.


Yes, F=ma. But 10 mph doesn't result in flying debris.
 
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ER757
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:17 pm

2eng2efficient wrote:
The videos of this event are absolutely insane, like something out of an action movie. It got my pulse up just watching it. The police were courageous and the pilot is lucky to be alive - they got him out with literally seconds to spare.

The second angle of the guy filming adjacent to the tracks is equally wild. Quite idiotically, this man is standing immediately down range from the fuselage, and it looks like he came very close to being decapitated by a part that flies in his direction after the train obliterates the plane.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/9155052002

Yeah, that guy in the second video is as lucky to be alive as the pilot. That piece of debris could easily have impaled him. Can't say enough about the courage and heroism of the police in rescuing the pilot. Took some serious cajones to keep working on him with a train barreling down on them
 
Breathe
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:27 pm

777 wrote:
One day I will die, but not today!

Amazing!

Not yet kameraden! Not yet!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XoxPgcijyg
 
wjcandee
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:25 pm

F9Animal wrote:
I am also certain the train was at full emergency brakes at the time of impact.
Those officers saved that pilots life!


I absolutely defer to you on this. I have probably been on a half-dozen (or maybe a few more) pax trains when they dumped the air. There's little at first, then a smooth, somewhat rapid deceleration, then some jittering at the end. I actually had a trainman describe this to me as a young kid while I was sitting talking with him on a long-distance train, then not 30 minutes later that exact thing happened. Car at a crossing. Every time it happened after that, it was pretty-much the same. You hear the TOOSH! sound, then you wonder for a moment whether in fact that's what it was since nothing is happening, then you feel the brakes apply with increasing effect, then you come to a shaking stop. So that train may well have been in emergency when it passed the crossing, but there wasn't much obvious deceleration, which suggests that the application may have been made, as others have noted, when the crossing came into sight, which may have been very-shortly before impact.
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:48 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
Train tracks at the end of the runway. How common is that?


Welcome to the developed world.

There is a major rail line at the north end of the runway at CLT too.


ORD has a massive rail yard directly adjacent to it, through which both freight and commuter rail pass (the latter at 50+mph speeds). All sorts of lovely HAZMAT rolling through there, including so-called “bomb trains” carrying crude oil.
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:04 pm

Looking at the YouTube video posted,
https://youtu.be/hg5Zi2AqTXE
It seems the police were there for quite a while, I’m sure it will come out how long, but you can clearly see the roads all taped off with “police -do not cross” tape after the crash has happened from the guy filming at the side of the tracks.

But massive well done to the officers who
Literally put their life on the line.
 
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zeke
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:09 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
That was an amazing display of self-sacrifice on the part of those officers rescuing that pilot. It made my morning to see it.


The vast majority of first responders do am amazing job all the time, however we will not see protests in the streets celebrating this.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:10 pm

WHP - this airport has had several accident in recent years, correct?

At first, I thought the Cessna had collided with the train while it was airborne.

So, only two injuries (Pilot and bystander that got hit by debris)?

Do passenger trains in this situation, obviously more typical collisions with land vehicles, announce a "brace for impact" to passengers?
 
bennett123
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:04 pm

One question that no one has asked yet.

Is it a write off?.
 
masonh2479
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:08 pm

bennett123 wrote:
One question that no one has asked yet.

Is it a write off?.

It'll buff out.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:23 am

bennett123 wrote:
One question that no one has asked yet.

Is it a write off?.


There might not even a data plate to work from.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:34 am

wjcandee wrote:
Remarkable video. Very sad that the responses to the Tweet from LAPD are filled with such puerile and hateful comments. I'm triggered. I need a safe space now.

Also thinking that PD needs a more-robust way of communicating with train dispatchers, who could change signals or, if the train has passed the last signal before the crossing, instruct it by radio, which might have allowed it to slow or perhaps even stop. Here in NY, there's usually a railroad emergency number and location identifier posted by crossings. Don't know if they have that in Cali.

The commuter train system in LA County is far from state of the art.
 
69bug
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:50 am

I'm thinking that any tower that has railway tracks nearby should have a big red button that would red-light all traffic and alert the railway authorities...

Not a high cost item too.
bug
 
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rj968
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:15 am

69bug wrote:
I'm thinking that any tower that has railway tracks nearby should have a big red button that would red-light all traffic and alert the railway authorities...

Not a high cost item too.
bug

Really, one airplane hit by a train in the last 100 years and all airports with railroad tracks “nearby” need a big red button?
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:00 pm

ER757 wrote:
Took some serious cajones to keep working


You may want to Google "cajones"......
Not many drawers are required for this, surely....

No Tax On Rotax
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4789
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:49 pm

wjcandee wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
I am also certain the train was at full emergency brakes at the time of impact.
Those officers saved that pilots life!


I absolutely defer to you on this. I have probably been on a half-dozen (or maybe a few more) pax trains when they dumped the air. There's little at first, then a smooth, somewhat rapid deceleration, then some jittering at the end. I actually had a trainman describe this to me as a young kid while I was sitting talking with him on a long-distance train, then not 30 minutes later that exact thing happened. Car at a crossing. Every time it happened after that, it was pretty-much the same. You hear the TOOSH! sound, then you wonder for a moment whether in fact that's what it was since nothing is happening, then you feel the brakes apply with increasing effect, then you come to a shaking stop. So that train may well have been in emergency when it passed the crossing, but there wasn't much obvious deceleration, which suggests that the application may have been made, as others have noted, when the crossing came into sight, which may have been very-shortly before impact.


It's the worst feeling ever!! I nearly hit an elderly woman crossing tracks when her walker got stuck in the tracks. I applied everything to stop and hit the horn. I swear I hit her hair. All I could do was hold my breath and wait.
 
musang
Posts: 820
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 4:11 am

Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:27 pm

Some conjecture, guesswork, assumption and theorising here!

How can one discern, from the videos, how much braking is being applied? How can the passing speed be inferred? How does one know what or how much noise train brakes make (depends on the train type and brake condition)? There will not be sparks flying everywhere like in the movies. The driver will have gone to full emergency brakes as soon as they saw the obstruction. I don't know that train type but many these days have slide protection, akin to ABS in cars. Manually releasing then re-applying would be a gamble, unlikely to improve on the automatic system and unlikely to be in the standard operating procedure on dry rails. As said, the stopping distance is considerable and the decell. is not violent for train occupants even at max. I would be surprised if there was any moisture on the rails in the weather at the time.

The driver's main objective is preventing colliding with humans. The other thing on his/her mind would have been that colliding with vehicles, large animals, objects on the track etc. can cause derailment even if the train has a plough/"cow-catcher" etc. In the absence of an alert or a red signal, I feel sure the driver braked as soon as visual contact was attained.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 11466
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Police pull pilot from plane moments before train crash

Wed Jan 12, 2022 1:27 am

musang wrote:
I feel sure the driver braked as soon as visual contact was attained.


Which is what I said.

I have watched enough train videos and been on enough trains that dumped the air to know what it feels like, looks like, and sounds like. The train didn't appear to be decelerating, but, as I said, there is a delay between dumping the air and the brakes being applied with significant effect. Presumably, the engineer put the train into emergency when he saw the obstruction, but, assuming that he did, then there was not yet a significantly-effective application of brakes prior to the cab car arriving at the crossing. When they start to grab, particularly on a relatively-light passenger train being pushed by a locomotive, it's noticeable.

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