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Opus99
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Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:26 pm

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 73634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:27 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1482040540015173634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?


It’s Dave Loffing. We got an e-mail a few hours ago about this.

I’ve never met Michael in person, but didn’t have a good impression of him. He didn’t seem to have a lot of technical understanding, yet he was dictating to engineers they should design new safety features and alerting on the 777X. He really didn’t know what he was talking about.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
Posts: 3175
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:29 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1482040540015173634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?


It’s Dave Loffing. We got an e-mail a few hours ago about this.

I’ve never met Michael in person, but didn’t have a good impression of him. He didn’t seem to have a lot of technical understanding, yet he was dictating to engineers they should design new safety features and alerting on the 777X. He really didn’t know what he was talking about.

Auto correct got me there. What are your thoughts on Dave?
 
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Pythagoras
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:33 am

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:06 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1482040540015173634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?


It is only an indication that it is time for a set of younger leaders to take on the job of developing the next family of airplanes.
 
jbs2886
Posts: 4032
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:28 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1482040540015173634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?


It’s Dave Loffing. We got an e-mail a few hours ago about this.

I’ve never met Michael in person, but didn’t have a good impression of him. He didn’t seem to have a lot of technical understanding, yet he was dictating to engineers they should design new safety features and alerting on the 777X. He really didn’t know what he was talking about.


That's unfortunate, it sounds exactly like what got Boeing into the current troubles in the first place.
 
masonh2479
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:29 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1482040540015173634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?


It’s Dave Loffing. We got an e-mail a few hours ago about this.

I’ve never met Michael in person, but didn’t have a good impression of him. He didn’t seem to have a lot of technical understanding, yet he was dictating to engineers they should design new safety features and alerting on the 777X. He really didn’t know what he was talking about.

It’s not surprising to hear that an executive doesn’t know what he is talking about. All he cares about is $ and he was clearly willing to compromise safety (MCAS) to save $. This next CEO should leave the engineers be so they can make a safe plane and not cut corners.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:58 pm

Opus99 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1482040540015173634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?


It’s Dave Loffing. We got an e-mail a few hours ago about this.

I’ve never met Michael in person, but didn’t have a good impression of him. He didn’t seem to have a lot of technical understanding, yet he was dictating to engineers they should design new safety features and alerting on the 777X. He really didn’t know what he was talking about.

Auto correct got me there. What are your thoughts on Dave?


I don’t know him, so can’t state an opinion. I do know others who have worked with him, but not clear on the impressions of him.

I have worked with some mid-level 777X engineering leadership who I like. Some of the 787 engineering leadership seems pretty good also.
 
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Pythagoras
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:33 am

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:31 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

It’s Dave Loffing. We got an e-mail a few hours ago about this.

I’ve never met Michael in person, but didn’t have a good impression of him. He didn’t seem to have a lot of technical understanding, yet he was dictating to engineers they should design new safety features and alerting on the 777X. He really didn’t know what he was talking about.

Auto correct got me there. What are your thoughts on Dave?


I don’t know him, so can’t state an opinion. I do know others who have worked with him, but not clear on the impressions of him.

I have worked with some mid-level 777X engineering leadership who I like. Some of the 787 engineering leadership seems pretty good also.


I know both Mark Jenks and Michael Teal, and both are fair and competent technical leaders.

It is my educated guess that the 737MAX has caused a re-evaluation of the flight crew alerting and procedures on the 777X which was outside the scope of the original certification process. Quite a bit of time has passed since 777 was certified during which understanding of human factors also has advanced. As an example we just had an event where the correct altitude was entered in the Mode Control Panel (MCP) but the Flight Director (FD) did not register it unless it is reset, as explained in this event at Emirates here:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468293

The issue with safety always is that once you know of a safety issue than one is obligated to address it immediately. As a result of the 737MAX accidents and the finding that human factors are not sufficiently addressed in the regulations, it is understandable that the scope of the work statement for the 777X is not fully known. The rules were essentially changed mid-game. Tough predicament to be in.
Last edited by Pythagoras on Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Opus99
Topic Author
Posts: 3175
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:32 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/1482040540015173634?s=21

Michael Teal the infamous chief engineer of the 737 max that was moved to the 777X chief engineer is leaving April 1st and but David Lafong the 777 CPE assumes his role immediately.

First mark Jenks now Michael Teal. Is Boeing finally weeding out some of the poor leaders within the business?


It is only an indication that it is time for a set of younger leaders to take on the job of developing the next family of airplanes.

And I think that can be a good thing. In many respects
 
sxf24
Posts: 1797
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:44 pm

The Wall Street Journal says Michael Teal is retiring after working at Boeing for 35 years. With a career of that length, it is hard to read anything nefarious into his departure.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:45 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
Auto correct got me there. What are your thoughts on Dave?


I don’t know him, so can’t state an opinion. I do know others who have worked with him, but not clear on the impressions of him.

I have worked with some mid-level 777X engineering leadership who I like. Some of the 787 engineering leadership seems pretty good also.


I know both Mark Jenks and Michael Teal, and both are fair and competent technical leaders.

It is my educated guess that the 737MAX has caused a re-evaluation of the flight crew alerting and procedures on the 777X which was outside the scope of the original certification process. Quite a bit of time has passed since 777 was certified during which understanding of human factors also has advanced. As an example we just had an event where the correct altitude was entered in the Master Control Panel (MCP) but the Flight Director (FD) did not register it unless it is reset, as explained in this event at Emirates here:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468293

The issue with safety always is that once you know of a safety issue than one is obligated to address it immediately. As a result of the 737MAX accidents and the finding that human factors are not sufficiently addressed in the regulations, it is understandable that the scope of the work statement for the 777X is not fully known. The rules were essentially changed mid-game. Tough predicament to be in.


I’m well familiar with that Emirates event. That’s not exactly what happened. MCP = Mode Control Panel.

To your point, there is a huge emphasis on Human Factors. A lot of new experts are being hired.
 
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Pythagoras
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:33 am

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:53 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
I’m well familiar with that Emirates event. That’s not exactly what happened. MCP = Mode Control Panel.

To your point, there is a huge emphasis on Human Factors. A lot of new experts are being hired.


Thanks for the correction. Just going off what my significant other tells me, who has spent a lot of time in Boeing labs.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 27445
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:02 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
I’ve never met Michael in person, but didn’t have a good impression of him.

His interview with the Congressional investigators is online somewhere. I've read it and IMO he didn't made a good impression. He said he didn't know about MCAS's multiple activations till he heard about it in the media some time after the first crash. He was also called out in the media as being the person who squashed adding synthetic airspeed to the MAX during development due to schedule and budget concerns.

35 years is a good run. Eventually it is time for younger people to take the reins. I wish him good luck with whatever he does next with his life.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1825
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Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:31 pm

It's hard for me to wish well for anyone who helped preside over Boeing’s long decline. Is there no accountability? You just get to ride off into the sunset after hundreds of people get killed and your company loses its leadership position in the marketplace? Enjoy you retirement son.

This is perhaps tangential and may get deleted by the mods.....but the 0000 777 event placed in context is rather worrisome. By context, I mean next to the Asiana crash and the MAX/MCAS crashes. I was heartened to see some upthread say that Boeing is focusing on the total human factors picture and not viewing these accidents as unique events. It is strangely ironic to me that the company that has been espousing "pilot in control" ever since the A320/FBW was introduced is the company having these human factors accidents and incidents.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6882
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:50 pm

SteelChair wrote:
It's hard for me to wish well for anyone who helped preside over Boeing’s long decline. Is there no accountability? You just get to ride off into the sunset after hundreds of people get killed and your company loses its leadership position in the marketplace? Enjoy you retirement son.

This is perhaps tangential and may get deleted by the mods.....but the 0000 777 event placed in context is rather worrisome. By context, I mean next to the Asiana crash and the MAX/MCAS crashes. I was heartened to see some upthread say that Boeing is focusing on the total human factors picture and not viewing these accidents as unique events. It is strangely ironic to me that the company that has been espousing "pilot in control" ever since the A320/FBW was introduced is the company having these human factors accidents and incidents.


The Asiana event was crew error and bad piloting. We have a lot of armchair quarterbacks here.

What is the 0000 777 event?

Agree about the no accountability. Jim McNerney is the worst. Destroys the company and walks away with his riches.
 
sxf24
Posts: 1797
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: Michael Teal leaves Boeing

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:31 pm

SteelChair wrote:
It's hard for me to wish well for anyone who helped preside over Boeing’s long decline. Is there no accountability? You just get to ride off into the sunset after hundreds of people get killed and your company loses its leadership position in the marketplace? Enjoy you retirement son.

This is perhaps tangential and may get deleted by the mods.....but the 0000 777 event placed in context is rather worrisome. By context, I mean next to the Asiana crash and the MAX/MCAS crashes. I was heartened to see some upthread say that Boeing is focusing on the total human factors picture and not viewing these accidents as unique events. It is strangely ironic to me that the company that has been espousing "pilot in control" ever since the A320/FBW was introduced is the company having these human factors accidents and incidents.


Are you saying a chief project engineer is responsible for the strategic decisions of the entire company over many decades?

Not saying that Mike Teal is responsible for the 737 accidents, but are you saying he is not entitled to retire because of his affiliation? What accountability would you like to see? Have him sentenced to death? Sent to jail? Stripped of the retirement benefits he earned over 35 years of work?

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