https://gizmodo.com/fedex-asks-faa-to-let-it-install-anti-missile-lasers-on-1848361044
https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2022-00505.pdf

FedEx has filed with the FAA to install anti-missile systems onboard A321-200 aircraft. But it doesn't have A321s, unless I missed an order for some P2Fs...

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It’s Gizmodo.

Yes, agreed, but there's an attached FAA filing in my post (also in the Gizmodo article) that repeatedly states A321s.

FedEx has been testing various IR anti-missle systems for more than a decade including deploying it on an MD-10

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northro ... n_Guardian

We've had discussions about it in previous threads over the years.

I would not read anything into the A321. Likely just want to get STC approval, same they did for the 747 which FedEx does not operate either.

Newark727 wrote:

Installing systems for a third party perhaps?

Yes.

MO11 wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Installing systems for a third party perhaps?

Yes.

Would FedEx be the best party to install such a system? Either for themselves or a third party? Is it not better perhaps if a military systems integrator such Lockheed or even Boeing does the installation?

IIRC didn't AA do a trial experimental anti missile system on a 767 around 2010?

majano wrote:

MO11 wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Installing systems for a third party perhaps?

Yes.

Would FedEx be the best party to install such a system? Either for themselves or a third party? Is it not better perhaps if a military systems integrator such Lockheed or even Boeing does the installation?

What’s the difference? Are the mechanics and engineers at FedEx worse?

It’s likely FedEX wants them installed for potential use throughout other less civilized parts of the world but needs the FAA’s blessing in order for the planes to operate in the US when not in those otherwise less civilized parts.

32andBelow wrote:

majano wrote:

MO11 wrote:

Yes.

Would FedEx be the best party to install such a system? Either for themselves or a third party? Is it not better perhaps if a military systems integrator such Lockheed or even Boeing does the installation?

What’s the difference? Are the mechanics and engineers at FedEx worse?

The difference is that a military integrator would charge 10 times as much, just because that's who they are. Nothing wrong with FedEx doing this as a side business.

wjcandee wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

majano wrote:

Would FedEx be the best party to install such a system? Either for themselves or a third party? Is it not better perhaps if a military systems integrator such Lockheed or even Boeing does the installation?

What’s the difference? Are the mechanics and engineers at FedEx worse?

The difference is that a military integrator would charge 10 times as much, just because that's who they are. Nothing wrong with FedEx doing this as a side business.

And holding other contractors accountable.

I seem to remember this:

https://www.aviationpros.com/home/news/10393401/jet-with-antimissile-system-leaves-lax

and it was discussed here:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437641

They should have it for flights that go into more hostile areas. I would feel safer knowing my plane had extra safety features for these types of threats. Makes me think of the DHL incident over Iraq.

Are they ill-tempered?

32andBelow wrote:

majano wrote:

MO11 wrote:

Yes.

Would FedEx be the best party to install such a system? Either for themselves or a third party? Is it not better perhaps if a military systems integrator such Lockheed or even Boeing does the installation?

What’s the difference? Are the mechanics and engineers at FedEx worse?

Talk about a can of worms youre opening there!!

El Al has a similar system (if not the same actually)...If it wasn't so expensive, I would love to see more airlines add this to their airplanes...airlines from countries at war, for example...

A good Warzone article on this:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ermeasures

I find it interesting that they've specifically chosen the A321-200, not an A320 or 737.

WeatherPilot wrote:

It’s likely FedEX wants them installed for potential use throughout other less civilized parts of the world but needs the FAA’s blessing in order for the planes to operate in the US when not in those otherwise less civilized parts.

This is incorrect. They need FAA approval to install the system on "N" registered aircraft, to operate in any part of the world [AFAIK all their aircraft are N registered]. Theoretically they could have installed it on an aircraft registered in another country, with the approval of the authority in that country, and operate that aircraft in US airspace PROVIDED it was engaged in "International Civil Aviation", not US domestic service. I certainly can not think of any reason why they would do so but it is possible.

Gemuser

JetBuddy wrote:

A good Warzone article on this:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ermeasures

I find it interesting that they've specifically chosen the A321-200, not an A320 or 737.

Especially since FX doesn’t have A321s?

JetBuddy wrote:

A good Warzone article on this:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ermeasures

I find it interesting that they've specifically chosen the A321-200, not an A320 or 737.

They prolly have a customer?

WeatherPilot wrote:

It’s likely FedEX wants them installed for potential use throughout other less civilized parts of the world but needs the FAA’s blessing in order for the planes to operate in the US when not in those otherwise less civilized parts.

Yes, clearly for all the A321s that FX flies all over “those” places. Oh wait…

Some of us old timers on the site distinctly remember the “FedEx Hushkit” for the 727that they developed and installed all over the fleet 30 odd years ago. They are clearly applying to install their new protective technology on aircraft for a customer. Dollars to donuts not even a freight customer.

UPlog wrote:

I would not read anything into the A321. Likely just want to get STC approval, same they did for the 747 which FedEx does not operate either.

From what I understand, once FedEx is the STC holder of this system they will get paid each time this system is installed on a A321 installed by an airline or MRO.

Spacepope wrote:

Some of us old timers on the site distinctly remember the “FedEx Hushkit” for the 727that they developed and installed all over the fleet 30 odd years ago. They are clearly applying to install their new protective technology on aircraft for a customer. Dollars to donuts not even a freight customer.

I remember when Delta traded all of their A310-200s to FedEx in exchange for 727 hushkits. It was a win-win for both companies.

sxf24 wrote:

JetBuddy wrote:

A good Warzone article on this:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ermeasures

I find it interesting that they've specifically chosen the A321-200, not an A320 or 737.

Especially since FX doesn’t have A321s?

Obviously.

That's why I'm wondering who it's for.

Has FedEx done aircraft modifications for external customers since the 727 hushkits?

FX A321-200 P2F?

32andBelow wrote:

majano wrote:

MO11 wrote:

Yes.

Would FedEx be the best party to install such a system? Either for themselves or a third party? Is it not better perhaps if a military systems integrator such Lockheed or even Boeing does the installation?

What’s the difference? Are the mechanics and engineers at FedEx worse?

There are usually a lot of differences between Military Engineering and Commercial Engineering that are usually nothing to do with the "engineering" per se, but the uniqueness of the requirements and standards applied to Military hardware, that are fundamentally different to commercial standards, and amongst other things usually lead to a much more difficult and complex (arcane) supply chain and supply solutions.
For most commercial businesses, setting up a business architecture to cope with these differences for a niche, small volume business stream is prohibitively expensive. Which is why you typically get an "either-or" in the supply chain - either dedicated to military work, or dedicated to commercial work.

I would be wary of underplaying the complexities of a commercial firm playing in the military environment. That path is minefield

Rgds

astuteman wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

majano wrote:

Would FedEx be the best party to install such a system? Either for themselves or a third party? Is it not better perhaps if a military systems integrator such Lockheed or even Boeing does the installation?

What’s the difference? Are the mechanics and engineers at FedEx worse?

There are usually a lot of differences between Military Engineering and Commercial Engineering that are usually nothing to do with the "engineering" per se, but the uniqueness of the requirements and standards applied to Military hardware, that are fundamentally different to commercial standards, and amongst other things usually lead to a much more difficult and complex (arcane) supply chain and supply solutions.
For most commercial businesses, setting up a business architecture to cope with these differences for a niche, small volume business stream is prohibitively expensive. Which is why you typically get an "either-or" in the supply chain - either dedicated to military work, or dedicated to commercial work.

I would be wary of underplaying the complexities of a commercial firm playing in the military environment. That path is minefield

Rgds

This is a good point. It's also shown in Boeing's civilian derived military planes. While the 737s and 767s are unique builds for the military, BCA first delivers the plane to Boeing's military arm, then Boeing military finishes outfitting the plane before it is delivered to the customer.

JetBuddy wrote:

sxf24 wrote:

JetBuddy wrote:

A good Warzone article on this:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ermeasures

I find it interesting that they've specifically chosen the A321-200, not an A320 or 737.

Especially since FX doesn’t have A321s?

Obviously.

That's why I'm wondering who it's for.

Has FedEx done aircraft modifications for external customers since the 727 hushkits?

A321s that need missile defense.
Arkia jumps to mind here!

bluecrew wrote:

A321s that need missile defense.
Arkia jumps to mind here!

Funny, I was thinking MEA myself, if indeed FedEx didn’t inadvertently reveal future fleet plans. Though with the financial state of Lebanon and the companies within, who knows about that one.