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mercure1
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Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:29 pm

Airbus and Tarmac Aerosave will join forces to create an aircraft recycling center in China.

Under the agreement, the companies will create an end-of-life management services for Chinese and broader Asian customer fleets at Chengdu-Shuangliu airport starting in 2023 at a ​​80 hectares facility.

https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/airb ... hine-25821
 
Cardude2
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:35 pm

This is intriguing. Do you happen to have the article in English?
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:54 pm

Cardude2 wrote:
This is intriguing. Do you happen to have the article in English?


Here is an article from Airbus .


Chengdu, 18 January 2022 – Airbus has signed a Memorandum Of Understanding (MOU) with the city of Chengdu and Tarmac Aerosave
for the development of the first sustainable aircraft “lifecycle” service centre in China. This agreement will cover a range of activities from aircraft
parking and storage, to maintenance, upgrades, conversions, dismantling and recycling services for various aircraft types.


https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/pres ... e-in-china
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:20 pm

that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:41 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

You really think the Chinese don't already have access to all the Airbus planes they want to reverse-engineer?
If anything, this facility will be (partially) controlled by Airbus and Airbus people, making IP theft harder than if they were not present at all.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:57 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

You really think the Chinese don't already have access to all the Airbus planes they want to reverse-engineer?
If anything, this facility will be (partially) controlled by Airbus and Airbus people, making IP theft harder than if they were not present at all.


i forgot the tongue in cheeck emoji when i typed that

they learned all they needed to learn years ago...

anyway, it's a good idea to get these planes recycled. consumer, commercial and industrial waste is a such a plague
 
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Revelation
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:02 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

You really think the Chinese don't already have access to all the Airbus planes they want to reverse-engineer?
If anything, this facility will be (partially) controlled by Airbus and Airbus people, making IP theft harder than if they were not present at all.

I don't think they've had a legitimate excuse to totally disassemble them till now. There's no way to adequately police such a chop shop, IMO. And of course if you feel you need to police things, you're admitting it's a genuine concern.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:27 pm

Revelation wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

You really think the Chinese don't already have access to all the Airbus planes they want to reverse-engineer?
If anything, this facility will be (partially) controlled by Airbus and Airbus people, making IP theft harder than if they were not present at all.

I don't think they've had a legitimate excuse to totally disassemble them till now. There's no way to adequately police such a chop shop, IMO. And of course if you feel you need to police things, you're admitting it's a genuine concern.

When you want to reverse-engineer a competitor's product, do you need a "legitimate" excuse to disassemble their product? Of course not, you do it behind heavily guarded walls.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:02 pm

If the biggest fear is that China is reverse engineering 30 year old Airbus aircraft then the next ARJ will be as crappy as the -21.
 
migair54
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:05 am

Interesting choice for the airport, usually this kind of services are in airports relatively quiet and with space to expand like Victorville, Teruel... no in major international gateways.

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

That was done years ago, now is just a matter of business, huge fleets around (China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam) and no such facility, so it is a perfect set up for the task.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:49 am

migair54 wrote:
Interesting choice for the airport, usually this kind of services are in airports relatively quiet and with space to expand like Victorville, Teruel... no in major international gateways.


Chengdu has opened a second major airport outside the city limit called Tianfu. Tianfu is taking over what Shuangliu was. Now Shuangliu is restricted to important domestic business and regional business route. So the inflow to Shuangliu is relatively very small now.

migair54 wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

That was done years ago, now is just a matter of business, huge fleets around (China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam) and no such facility, so it is a perfect set up for the task.


Yes, just look at C919, and then tell me it does not look like A320. The IP theft was done already. Airbus is willing to take offense with its customer over a complaint. Yet Airbus stayed quiet on IP theft and not willing to point fingers at the thief yet pouring more money into the country. Makes you wonder.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:33 am

Revelation wrote:
I don't think they've had a legitimate excuse to totally disassemble them till now.


If they really wanted to completely disassemble an Airbus (or Boeing for that matter), why would they need an excuse? Just fly it to a military base and put it in a hangar. They've had Boeings since the 1970s and it doesn't seem to have helped them build airliners.

chonetsao wrote:
Yes, just look at C919, and then tell me it does not look like A320.


It looks more like a A220 or mini 787 than an A320. Modern airliner design is converging to the point where they all look pretty similar, so how would you expect it to look?

chonetsao wrote:
Yet Airbus stayed quiet on IP theft and not willing to point fingers at the thief yet pouring more money into the country. Makes you wonder.


Unless you can prove IP theft, what do you propose doing about it?
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:46 am

scbriml wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I don't think they've had a legitimate excuse to totally disassemble them till now.


If they really wanted to completely disassemble an Airbus (or Boeing for that matter), why would they need an excuse? Just fly it to a military base and put it in a hangar. They've had Boeings since the 1970s and it doesn't seem to have helped them build airliners.

And not to mention a number of Boeing and Airbus planes have been scrapped in China already, although not by Airbus themselves. So not like this hasn't been done before.

Michael
 
bennett123
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:55 am

chonetsao wrote:
migair54 wrote:
Interesting choice for the airport, usually this kind of services are in airports relatively quiet and with space to expand like Victorville, Teruel... no in major international gateways.


Chengdu has opened a second major airport outside the city limit called Tianfu. Tianfu is taking over what Shuangliu was. Now Shuangliu is restricted to important domestic business and regional business route. So the inflow to Shuangliu is relatively very small now.

migair54 wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

That was done years ago, now is just a matter of business, huge fleets around (China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam) and no such facility, so it is a perfect set up for the task.


Yes, just look at C919, and then tell me it does not look like A320. The IP theft was done already. Airbus is willing to take offense with its customer over a complaint. Yet Airbus stayed quiet on IP theft and not willing to point fingers at the thief yet pouring more money into the country. Makes you wonder.


The same applies to cars.

Often you can only tell what it is from the manufacturers badge.
 
PhilipBass
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:29 am

it could be a way to prevent dangerous used parts of unknown provenance entering the chain or they could be looking to set up a remarketing project for old frames where they are doing deals for sale of new planes. Car Manufacturers are trying to control the used market for their brands at the moment as they have identified it as a potential major profit centre.
 
Vicenza
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:29 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Yes, just look at C919, and then tell me it does not look like A320. The IP theft was done already. Airbus is willing to take offense with its customer over a complaint. Yet Airbus stayed quiet on IP theft and not willing to point fingers at the thief yet pouring more money into the country. Makes you wonder.


Considering an aircraft is composed of a tube, two wings, a tail and wheels, how massively different do you expect them to be?
Makes you wonder about what precisely?
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 446
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:30 pm

Because current Supply Chain issues aren't enough to tell companies that it is a bad idea to expand operations in China?

Can China be *that* much cheaper right now, with all of their factory gate inflation, than say Romania?
 
AC77X
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:12 am

Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:31 am

chonetsao wrote:
migair54 wrote:
Interesting choice for the airport, usually this kind of services are in airports relatively quiet and with space to expand like Victorville, Teruel... no in major international gateways.


Chengdu has opened a second major airport outside the city limit called Tianfu. Tianfu is taking over what Shuangliu was. Now Shuangliu is restricted to important domestic business and regional business route. So the inflow to Shuangliu is relatively very small now.

migair54 wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
that will make their reverse engineering and ip stealing efforts much easier...

That was done years ago, now is just a matter of business, huge fleets around (China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam) and no such facility, so it is a perfect set up for the task.


Yes, just look at C919, and then tell me it does not look like A320. The IP theft was done already. Airbus is willing to take offense with its customer over a complaint. Yet Airbus stayed quiet on IP theft and not willing to point fingers at the thief yet pouring more money into the country. Makes you wonder.


How does the C919 look like a 320? Because it has a fuselage, wings, and engines? Is it a copy because, like the 320, it also has the ability to fly?

There's a difference between a copy and a competitor.
 
Duke91
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:02 am

Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:32 am

I wonder, is this to also counter raw material shortages? That these resources that are in composition very similar to modern aircraft will be shipped priority to Airbus. That was my first thought. Would be very clever to ensure the supply chain.

And regarding IP theft, I guess dissasembly under supervision is better than dissasembly without supervision. Although I doubt the common, frankly racist narrative of IP theft. Sure it happens, but not as much as the west insinuates especially regarding tech in which some Chinese firms are leading worldwide now.

edit: kinda telling that the first discussion in this thread is about IP theft instead of the actual topic
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:33 am

What are you guys talking about IP theft. Chinese airlines own airbuses. They can just take them apart in their hangar if they want. They’d have the maintenance manuals and performance data too believe it or not. Even for the engines
 
Duke91
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 4:02 am

Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:27 am

32andBelow wrote:
What are you guys talking about IP theft. Chinese airlines own airbuses. They can just take them apart in their hangar if they want. They’d have the maintenance manuals and performance data too believe it or not. Even for the engines


The joke these days should be that the west would accuse China of reverse engineering the wheel
 
NotDengXiaoping
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Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:37 am

I’m surprised they are setting this up at Shuangliu and not the new airport at Tianfu. CTU is pretty limited in room to expand and airlines are preferring to keep their presence there instead of moving to TFU because it is comparatively inconvenient to get to for customers. One would think it would be cheaper to lease land and construction would be cheaper and less disruptive there. It’s like building an aircraft recycling center at DXB instead of DWC.
 
NotDengXiaoping
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:07 am

Re: Airbus to set up aircraft recycling center in China

Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:42 am

I’m surprised they are setting this up at Shuangliu and not the new airport at Tianfu. CTU is pretty limited in room to expand and airlines are preferring to keep their presence there instead of moving to TFU because it is comparatively inconvenient to get to for customers. One would think it would be cheaper to lease land and construction would be cheaper and less disruptive there. It’s like building an aircraft recycling center at DXB instead of DWC.

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