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IndianicWorld
Posts: 3531
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:38 pm

qf789 wrote:
A bill was introduced in Federal parliament today proposing a curfew (2200-600) for BNE. The bill also includes a limit of 45 flights per hour

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... rt-curfew/

Limiting to 45 flights per hour seems low, SYD is at 80 per hour.


The new runways opened (BNE) or planned (MEL) have certainly created a significant level of opposition, but it would be a pity to see both have curfews imposed.

Agree that the 45 flights per hour seems low for that runway layout.
Last edited by IndianicWorld on Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:40 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
^^ Some very interesting routes there. I seem to recall TT also starting out with some similar routes out of MEL but quickly changed course.

They have seemingly also chosen a few extra routes that more than likely will fit into an operating pattern from aircraft from either of the 2 bases initially.

MEL-WTB 4 x weekly with a 737 when Air North has already been operating the route will be very interesting to watch.

Still find it interesting that they did choose to split its offering across MEL and AVV, but it does give the later a new destination at least. I was expecting more of a base at AVV instead, but MEL makes sense.


I agree about your comments regarding AVV, I was expecting more as well but having said that this is the announcement of initial routes, there of course is no SYD in this announcement and there are probably other routes between QLD, NSW and VIC at some point in the future plus obviously once you add in the other states (SA, TAS, NT and WA) there will be some more interesting routes come out at a later date
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:50 pm

qf789 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
^^ Some very interesting routes there. I seem to recall TT also starting out with some similar routes out of MEL but quickly changed course.

They have seemingly also chosen a few extra routes that more than likely will fit into an operating pattern from aircraft from either of the 2 bases initially.

MEL-WTB 4 x weekly with a 737 when Air North has already been operating the route will be very interesting to watch.

Still find it interesting that they did choose to split its offering across MEL and AVV, but it does give the later a new destination at least. I was expecting more of a base at AVV instead, but MEL makes sense.


I agree about your comments regarding AVV, I was expecting more as well but having said that this is the announcement of initial routes, there of course is no SYD in this announcement and there are probably other routes between QLD, NSW and VIC at some point in the future plus obviously once you add in the other states (SA, TAS, NT and WA) there will be some more interesting routes come out at a later date


It’s certainly possible that they wanted to mitigate to risk of trying to make AVV work as a base, and as MEL now have the former TT gates available, they likely could offer a good deal.

As WA’s borders open up at some point in the future, I can certainly see a couple of opportunities for them, but the long, thin routes will be a challenge, especially if fuel costs are high.
 
JustJet
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:05 pm

With low fares starting at $30-50, it'll be great to see how the routes develop.
 
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Goodbye
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 8:52 pm

Are there enough people around the Sunshine Coast catchment to fill all those planes? Sunshine Coast airport is a pain to get to from the highway (for people from say Brisbane north), so it will be interesting to see how they go.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:03 pm

qf789 wrote:
A bill was introduced in Federal parliament today proposing a curfew (2200-600) for BNE. The bill also includes a limit of 45 flights per hour

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... rt-curfew/

Limiting to 45 flights per hour seems low, SYD is at 80 per hour.


That would be quiet the shame. Especially with their new runway.

Hoping to get to depart or land on the new one next BNE trip!
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:07 pm

qf789 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Media reports are coming out now that Bonza will be based in MCY with a second base in MEL. Planned destinations the airline will initially service in its ‘first stage’ are Avalon, Albury, Bundaberg, Cairns, Coffs Harbour, Gladstone, Mackay, Mildura, Newcastle, Port Macquarie, Rockhampton, Toowoomba, Townsville and Whitsunday Coast.

Routes will be operated 2-5x weekly with pricing comparable to JQ.


Please provide a source in future

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... tinations/

According to this article first 737MAX will arrive in May and will have 5 by October, so taking around 1 a month

Routes include

MCY-ABX, 2 weekly
MCY-AVV, 3 weekly
MCY-CNS, 5 weekly
MCY-CFS, 2 weekly
MCY-MKY, 3 weekly
MCY-MEL, 4 weekly
MCY-MQL, 2 weekly
MCY-NTL, 4 weekly
MCY-PQQ, 2 weekly
MCY-ROK, 3 weekly
MCY-TSV, 4 weekly
MCY-PPP, 3 weekly
MEL-BDB, 2 weekly
MEL-GLT, 2 weekly
MEL-MKY, 2 weekly
MEL-MQL, 3 weekly
MEL-PQQ, 2 weekly
MEL-ROK, 3 weekly
MEL-WTB, 4 weekly
NTL-PPP, 2 weekly
PPP-WTB, 2 weekly
ROK-CNS, 4 weekly
ROK-TSV, 3 weekly
MKY-CNS, 2 weekly
TSB-WTB, 2 weekly


MCY is going to be Jammers - was always tight in the terminal and had restricted stands. I can’t see how they will have anywhere near enough Checkin space. They struggled with NZ when they were there, and I believe they are coming back.

Is this the first QLD route for MLQ? Certainly some unique routes to them. Good luck!

One could argue these all would have been great routes for ZL to acquire some cheap E190s and fly before going big on the golden triangle….
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:27 pm

qf789 wrote:
A bill was introduced in Federal parliament today proposing a curfew (2200-600) for BNE. The bill also includes a limit of 45 flights per hour

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... rt-curfew/

Limiting to 45 flights per hour seems low, SYD is at 80 per hour.

The bill was introduced by The Greens more to raise their profile in electorates near BNE than actually becoming law. It is unlikely to even get listed for debate so I wouldn't panic about curfews at BNE.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:31 pm

When Sydney's 3rd runway opened it led to the birth of the No Aircraft Noise Party which caused quite a splash in inner city electorates. Made Anthony Albanese's seat very marginal. This is The Greens playing smart local politics.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:26 pm

Darwin to remain Qantas' London stopover in place of not only Perth but Singapore "until at least June 2022"

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... don-darwin
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:42 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Darwin to remain Qantas' London stopover in place of not only Perth but Singapore "until at least June 2022"

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... don-darwin


Makes sense.

At this point, whichever way they turn there will be pros and cons, with PER a no go, DRW a small market to generate additional demand and SIN still likely having some operational steps that will likely make things less than ideal at this stage.
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:51 pm

Goodbye wrote:
Are there enough people around the Sunshine Coast catchment to fill all those planes? Sunshine Coast airport is a pain to get to from the highway (for people from say Brisbane north), so it will be interesting to see how they go.


A lot of people from Melbourne have moved up there, especially in the last couple of years. Noosa is also a popular getaway for Melbournians. You also have some of those who have moved up there commuting down to MEL or SYD for a couple of days a week for work, this side of the market might be even bigger now with the shift to remote working.

Ops at both MEL & AVV are also interesting, there might be the potential in the future for some international ops from AVV to NZ outside of AKL & CHC, and possibly some of the pacific islands. I'm sure AVV management would give them a good deal on the use of the international terminal.

With no ops to SYD, remember when JQ started up, they left the MEL-SYD flights to QF, they flew MEL-NTL as a point of difference.

Article from The Age

https://www.theage.com.au/business/comp ... 59w9v.html
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:57 pm

melpax wrote:
Goodbye wrote:
Are there enough people around the Sunshine Coast catchment to fill all those planes? Sunshine Coast airport is a pain to get to from the highway (for people from say Brisbane north), so it will be interesting to see how they go.


A lot of people from Melbourne have moved up there, especially in the last couple of years. Noosa is also a popular getaway for Melbournians. You also have some of those who have moved up there commuting down to MEL or SYD for a couple of days a week for work, this side of the market might be even bigger now with the shift to remote working.

Ops at both MEL & AVV are also interesting, there might be the potential in the future for some international ops from AVV to NZ outside of AKL & CHC, and possibly some of the pacific islands. I'm sure AVV management would give them a good deal on the use of the international terminal.

With no ops to SYD, remember when JQ started up, they left the MEL-SYD flights to QF, they flew MEL-NTL as a point of difference.

Article from The Age

https://www.theage.com.au/business/comp ... 59w9v.html


Jetstar's first ever flight was from Newcastle to Melbourne. I was on one of the first flights on a 717 which was from the Newcastle airline Impulse.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:00 am

melpax wrote:
Goodbye wrote:
Are there enough people around the Sunshine Coast catchment to fill all those planes? Sunshine Coast airport is a pain to get to from the highway (for people from say Brisbane north), so it will be interesting to see how they go.


A lot of people from Melbourne have moved up there, especially in the last couple of years. Noosa is also a popular getaway for Melbournians. You also have some of those who have moved up there commuting down to MEL or SYD for a couple of days a week for work, this side of the market might be even bigger now with the shift to remote working.

Ops at both MEL & AVV are also interesting, there might be the potential in the future for some international ops from AVV to NZ outside of AKL & CHC, and possibly some of the pacific islands. I'm sure AVV management would give them a good deal on the use of the international terminal.

With no ops to SYD, remember when JQ started up, they left the MEL-SYD flights to QF, they flew MEL-NTL as a point of difference.

Article from The Age

https://www.theage.com.au/business/comp ... 59w9v.html


It will still likely be a struggle to fill that many seats to some markets. TT tried some of these types of routes and moved away from that fairly quickly, so whether or not Bonza have better success with it will be interesting.

If they were going to look at international service they may need to look at the ownership structure, but just as Flair has pushed hard into the Canada-US market, it could be an option if things go well down the track.

I do think AVV management would have pushed hard for the base, so there would likely be some disappointment to only get one route. Servicing an airport with only 3 x weekly service is usually not cost effective, so certainly an interesting move.
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:32 am

Anyone know the performance of the 737 MAX 8 at hot airports? I have a feeling they might be payload restricted during hot summers where they're operating out of small runways, however I could be wrong.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:17 am

Qantas in conjunction with Alliance will base 4 E90’s at DRW

DRW-DIL will become the E90’s first international route initially starting at 3 weekly increasing to 5 weekly from July

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-darwin/
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:59 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
melpax wrote:
Goodbye wrote:
Are there enough people around the Sunshine Coast catchment to fill all those planes? Sunshine Coast airport is a pain to get to from the highway (for people from say Brisbane north), so it will be interesting to see how they go.


A lot of people from Melbourne have moved up there, especially in the last couple of years. Noosa is also a popular getaway for Melbournians. You also have some of those who have moved up there commuting down to MEL or SYD for a couple of days a week for work, this side of the market might be even bigger now with the shift to remote working.

Ops at both MEL & AVV are also interesting, there might be the potential in the future for some international ops from AVV to NZ outside of AKL & CHC, and possibly some of the pacific islands. I'm sure AVV management would give them a good deal on the use of the international terminal.

With no ops to SYD, remember when JQ started up, they left the MEL-SYD flights to QF, they flew MEL-NTL as a point of difference.

Article from The Age

https://www.theage.com.au/business/comp ... 59w9v.html


It will still likely be a struggle to fill that many seats to some markets. TT tried some of these types of routes and moved away from that fairly quickly, so whether or not Bonza have better success with it will be interesting.

If they were going to look at international service they may need to look at the ownership structure, but just as Flair has pushed hard into the Canada-US market, it could be an option if things go well down the track.

I do think AVV management would have pushed hard for the base, so there would likely be some disappointment to only get one route. Servicing an airport with only 3 x weekly service is usually not cost effective, so certainly an interesting move.


Not only is it a large aircraft but will an expensive one to lease. I do think that to stand half a chance they would have been better leasing used E190 or even 737-700s/A319s which are so cheap at the moment
 
Melb94
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:08 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Darwin to remain Qantas' London stopover in place of not only Perth but Singapore "until at least June 2022"

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... don-darwin


What about the Rome FCO flights? Would they operate it via Perth or Singapore? If they chose Singapore, QF would loose the title of the first nonstop flight between Australia and Continental Europe.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:13 am

Melb94 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Darwin to remain Qantas' London stopover in place of not only Perth but Singapore "until at least June 2022"

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... don-darwin


What about the Rome FCO flights? Would they operate it via Perth or Singapore? If they chose Singapore, QF would loose the title of the first nonstop flight between Australia and Continental Europe.


Rome flights aren't due until the 2nd half of June ( from memory) so I suppose they'll be hopeful of WA being open by then.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:28 am

NTLDaz wrote:
Melb94 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Darwin to remain Qantas' London stopover in place of not only Perth but Singapore "until at least June 2022"

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... don-darwin


What about the Rome FCO flights? Would they operate it via Perth or Singapore? If they chose Singapore, QF would loose the title of the first nonstop flight between Australia and Continental Europe.


Rome flights aren't due until the 2nd half of June ( from memory) so I suppose they'll be hopeful of WA being open by then.


News is just coming out that a new date will be announced in the next couple of weeks, there had also been rumblings lately that the new date will not have a long lead time, it was even suggested that it could open a few days after the announcement

https://twitter.com/adrianbarich/status ... 04033?s=21
 
Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:54 am

That's a lot of flights from MCY, 37 a week
They must be counting on quite a few looking for cheap seats from Northern Brisbane and Morton
Is QQ still flying to Cairns from MCY ?
This was only a couple of days per week and seems to have stopped...
As for Ntl, Pelican is only flying 2 days a week with 19 seats per flight, bit of a step up to try to fill 720 seats
 
zkncj
Posts: 4671
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:21 am

smi0006 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Media reports are coming out now that Bonza will be based in MCY with a second base in MEL. Planned destinations the airline will initially service in its ‘first stage’ are Avalon, Albury, Bundaberg, Cairns, Coffs Harbour, Gladstone, Mackay, Mildura, Newcastle, Port Macquarie, Rockhampton, Toowoomba, Townsville and Whitsunday Coast.

Routes will be operated 2-5x weekly with pricing comparable to JQ.


Please provide a source in future

https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... tinations/

According to this article first 737MAX will arrive in May and will have 5 by October, so taking around 1 a month

Routes include

MCY-ABX, 2 weekly
MCY-AVV, 3 weekly
MCY-CNS, 5 weekly
MCY-CFS, 2 weekly
MCY-MKY, 3 weekly
MCY-MEL, 4 weekly
MCY-MQL, 2 weekly
MCY-NTL, 4 weekly
MCY-PQQ, 2 weekly
MCY-ROK, 3 weekly
MCY-TSV, 4 weekly
MCY-PPP, 3 weekly
MEL-BDB, 2 weekly
MEL-GLT, 2 weekly
MEL-MKY, 2 weekly
MEL-MQL, 3 weekly
MEL-PQQ, 2 weekly
MEL-ROK, 3 weekly
MEL-WTB, 4 weekly
NTL-PPP, 2 weekly
PPP-WTB, 2 weekly
ROK-CNS, 4 weekly
ROK-TSV, 3 weekly
MKY-CNS, 2 weekly
TSB-WTB, 2 weekly


MCY is going to be Jammers - was always tight in the terminal and had restricted stands. I can’t see how they will have anywhere near enough Checkin space. They struggled with NZ when they were there, and I believe they are coming back.

Is this the first QLD route for MLQ? Certainly some unique routes to them. Good luck!

One could argue these all would have been great routes for ZL to acquire some cheap E190s and fly before going big on the golden triangle….


NZ is planning to be back in MCY by July 2022, in there last restarting International services plan - https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/where-we-fly
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:34 am

qf789 wrote:

News is just coming out that a new date will be announced in the next couple of weeks, there had also been rumblings lately that the new date will not have a long lead time, it was even suggested that it could open a few days after the announcement

https://twitter.com/adrianbarich/status ... 04033?s=21


Yeah all indications it won't be long into March, before March 15th I would've said. This is the feeling so I really wonder why QF decided to go via DRW until the end of June? Unless they want to see if WA actually opens the border and keeps it open for at least a few months before committing to international flights out of Perth. They could lose some revenue on passengers flying PER-LHR only which I believe were the majority of original customers, not so much connecters.

Why is this changing today? This morning the CEO of BHP, the world's largest mining company, said he wanted WA's border open. And then less than an hour later the Premier makes a comment saying the new date will be announced this month. Shows you who really runs the state.

I wonder as well if any of the proposed $75 million the WA government was spending on attracting new flights out of Perth will be used to lure the direct London flights back before the end of June? Considering the government stated they we're looking at direct flights to Germany, Vietnam, China and India it makes sense that before those started they would want direct flights to the UK, where 10% of Perth's population was born.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:41 am

qf789 wrote:
Qantas in conjunction with Alliance will base 4 E90’s at DRW

DRW-DIL will become the E90’s first international route initially starting at 3 weekly increasing to 5 weekly from July

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-darwin/


Nice to see DIL get some love. E190s are certainly offering QF some interesting opportunities. Hopefully they keep getting creative!

Also good to see them in QF livery, do the crew wear the QF uniform? Hopefully they freshen up some of those seat covers!
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 851
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:49 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

News is just coming out that a new date will be announced in the next couple of weeks, there had also been rumblings lately that the new date will not have a long lead time, it was even suggested that it could open a few days after the announcement

https://twitter.com/adrianbarich/status ... 04033?s=21


Yeah all indications it won't be long into March, before March 15th I would've said. This is the feeling so I really wonder why QF decided to go via DRW until the end of June? Unless they want to see if WA actually opens the border and keeps it open for at least a few months before committing to international flights out of Perth. They could lose some revenue on passengers flying PER-LHR only which I believe were the majority of original customers, not so much connecters.

Why is this changing today? This morning the CEO of BHP, the world's largest mining company, said he wanted WA's border open. And then less than an hour later the Premier makes a comment saying the new date will be announced this month. Shows you who really runs the state.

I wonder as well if any of the proposed $75 million the WA government was spending on attracting new flights out of Perth will be used to lure the direct London flights back before the end of June? Considering the government stated they we're looking at direct flights to Germany, Vietnam, China and India it makes sense that before those started they would want direct flights to the UK, where 10% of Perth's population was born.


The CEO of BHP is a Canadian based in Melbourne, he also signed the business councils open letter backing the national plan for opening last year. It was the only mining company to do so (other than South32 which was spun out from BHP). Note that at the time all the other WA based resource companies refused to sign, 2021 was the most profitable year on record for a lot of them....

Dont get me wrong, the majority want clarity around the border but i dont think BHP is calling the shots.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:02 am

smi0006 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas in conjunction with Alliance will base 4 E90’s at DRW

DRW-DIL will become the E90’s first international route initially starting at 3 weekly increasing to 5 weekly from July

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-darwin/


Nice to see DIL get some love. E190s are certainly offering QF some interesting opportunities. Hopefully they keep getting creative!

Also good to see them in QF livery, do the crew wear the QF uniform? Hopefully they freshen up some of those seat covers!


The E190 is going to be interesting what it can do for QF, as more short International routes reopen. Could see them being used on some New Zealand service too, eg to do double daily services instead of an single daily service with an 738.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:20 am

Aviation editor at the West Australian Geoffrey Thomas stating Qantas want the Perth to London route back "ASAP" as it was their most profitable:

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-ne ... aa5eff4f0d
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:36 am

zkncj wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas in conjunction with Alliance will base 4 E90’s at DRW

DRW-DIL will become the E90’s first international route initially starting at 3 weekly increasing to 5 weekly from July

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-darwin/


Nice to see DIL get some love. E190s are certainly offering QF some interesting opportunities. Hopefully they keep getting creative!

Also good to see them in QF livery, do the crew wear the QF uniform? Hopefully they freshen up some of those seat covers!


The E190 is going to be interesting what it can do for QF, as more short International routes reopen. Could see them being used on some New Zealand service too, eg to do double daily services instead of an single daily service with an 738.


I wonder if the E190s can be used across the Tasman, so they need to be fitted with life rafts? Surprised VA never used them if so. WLG certainly seems a good candidate from BNE.
 
dredgy
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:15 am

qf789 wrote:
MCY-ABX, 2 weekly
MCY-AVV, 3 weekly
MCY-CNS, 5 weekly
MCY-CFS, 2 weekly
MCY-MKY, 3 weekly
MCY-MEL, 4 weekly
MCY-MQL, 2 weekly
MCY-NTL, 4 weekly
...


An eclectic mix of routes announced, some of which definitely have the demand but will need to be managed right.

I'm glad to see the focus on ROK, which is an airport that has fairly diverse demand for destinations, it's just hard to get the pricing and aircraft type correct. Yeppoon was also a major boom town in COVID and there is a lot of new affluence in the area. I expect ROK<->CNS to be fairly successful, at least while Covid lingers and intrastate tourism is still prevalent. There's also enough ties for VFR and business too, and skipping the milk run would be a selling point especially if it's cheaper.

Townsville and Sunshine Coast I also expect to have potential for success from ROK - Townsville has alot of ties in education & business and is somewhat of a leisure destination that is also only served by an indirect flight. Sunshine Coast is mostly leisure, but it's a route I would personally use a lot if pricing is right.

Melbourne I don't have much hope for, unless a lot of the Covid refugees to Central Queensland are Melburnians who have created new ties to the region.
 
tullamarine
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:26 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Aviation editor at the West Australian Geoffrey Thomas stating Qantas want the Perth to London route back "ASAP" as it was their most profitable:

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-ne ... aa5eff4f0d

If GT is saying it, ignore it.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 964
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:29 am

tullamarine wrote:
If GT is saying it, ignore it.


Does it not make sense though?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3384
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:20 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
If GT is saying it, ignore it.


Does it not make sense though?

He's the aviation editor of The West Australian. You don't think he may be preaching to the choir??
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3384
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:25 am

smi0006 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Nice to see DIL get some love. E190s are certainly offering QF some interesting opportunities. Hopefully they keep getting creative!

Also good to see them in QF livery, do the crew wear the QF uniform? Hopefully they freshen up some of those seat covers!


The E190 is going to be interesting what it can do for QF, as more short International routes reopen. Could see them being used on some New Zealand service too, eg to do double daily services instead of an single daily service with an 738.


I wonder if the E190s can be used across the Tasman, so they need to be fitted with life rafts? Surprised VA never used them if so. WLG certainly seems a good candidate from BNE.

VA and Alliance never fitted their E90s with the required overwater equipment to do trans-Tasman. They can do shorter runs like Bass Strait and Torres Strait.
 
SIGWX
Posts: 7
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:35 am

smi0006 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Qantas in conjunction with Alliance will base 4 E90’s at DRW

DRW-DIL will become the E90’s first international route initially starting at 3 weekly increasing to 5 weekly from July

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... in-darwin/


Nice to see DIL get some love. E190s are certainly offering QF some interesting opportunities. Hopefully they keep getting creative!

Also good to see them in QF livery, do the crew wear the QF uniform? Hopefully they freshen up some of those seat covers!


The cabin crew wear QF uniforms, the pilots don’t. I wouldn’t hold your breath on a cabin refresh or inflight wifi, this arrangement seems to be a placeholder until A220s arrive.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4671
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:35 am

tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

The E190 is going to be interesting what it can do for QF, as more short International routes reopen. Could see them being used on some New Zealand service too, eg to do double daily services instead of an single daily service with an 738.


I wonder if the E190s can be used across the Tasman, so they need to be fitted with life rafts? Surprised VA never used them if so. WLG certainly seems a good candidate from BNE.

VA and Alliance never fitted their E90s with the required overwater equipment to do trans-Tasman. They can do shorter runs like Bass Strait and Torres Strait.


VA (well DJ back then) brought there E190 on an New Zealand tour, visiting places like HLZ as possible places they could use there E190s.
They then got into an relationship with NZ, and put to bed any of those plans.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9259
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:39 am

zkncj wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I wonder if the E190s can be used across the Tasman, so they need to be fitted with life rafts? Surprised VA never used them if so. WLG certainly seems a good candidate from BNE.

VA and Alliance never fitted their E90s with the required overwater equipment to do trans-Tasman. They can do shorter runs like Bass Strait and Torres Strait.


VA (well DJ back then) brought there E190 on an New Zealand tour, visiting places like HLZ as possible places they could use there E190s.
They then got into an relationship with NZ, and put to bed any of those plans.


There was even at least one E90 in the PacificBlue livery, although I don’t believe it ever operated international flights. IIRC even POM and HIR didn’t use E90s.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9259
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:45 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
If GT is saying it, ignore it.


Does it not make sense though?


I’m with Tullamarine on this one. He occasionally writes factual articles, but generally puts out puff pieces that represent his opinion as ‘news’. I can’t remember what it was, but I have definitely read one article where he cited himself as a source.

In this instance I feel confident that this is no more than GT thinking it could make sense, and then writing that it is probably going to happen. It is unlikely Qantas would give him an exclusive, and if they were planning to move back to PER as soon as the border opened then they would probably have left the door open to that today. Instead they left the door open to staying at DRW beyond June.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 964
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:04 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:

I’m with Tullamarine on this one. He occasionally writes factual articles, but generally puts out puff pieces that represent his opinion as ‘news’. I can’t remember what it was, but I have definitely read one article where he cited himself as a source.

In this instance I feel confident that this is no more than GT thinking it could make sense, and then writing that it is probably going to happen. It is unlikely Qantas would give him an exclusive, and if they were planning to move back to PER as soon as the border opened then they would probably have left the door open to that today. Instead they left the door open to staying at DRW beyond June.


But the fundamentals are correct no? PER-LHR was one of the (if no the number one) most profitable international routes for Qantas, so much so they wanted a second daily flight, plus instantly added a Rome flight when the first border opening decision was announced, and talk of a PER-JNB route breakthrough right before the announcement decision was delayed. Permanent investment in the Perth Terminal, only temporary in the Darwin terminal.

Eventually (probably by early next month) the "Hermit Kingdom" will reopen, and I don't see QF just walking away from all that revenue they wanted just a few weeks ago.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3384
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 9:59 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

I’m with Tullamarine on this one. He occasionally writes factual articles, but generally puts out puff pieces that represent his opinion as ‘news’. I can’t remember what it was, but I have definitely read one article where he cited himself as a source.

In this instance I feel confident that this is no more than GT thinking it could make sense, and then writing that it is probably going to happen. It is unlikely Qantas would give him an exclusive, and if they were planning to move back to PER as soon as the border opened then they would probably have left the door open to that today. Instead they left the door open to staying at DRW beyond June.


But the fundamentals are correct no? PER-LHR was one of the (if no the number one) most profitable international routes for Qantas, so much so they wanted a second daily flight, plus instantly added a Rome flight when the first border opening decision was announced, and talk of a PER-JNB route breakthrough right before the announcement decision was delayed. Permanent investment in the Perth Terminal, only temporary in the Darwin terminal.

Eventually (probably by early next month) the "Hermit Kingdom" will reopen, and I don't see QF just walking away from all that revenue they wanted just a few weeks ago.

Of course, QF eventually wants to return to PER-LHR but that will be when they are confident that they can operate through Perth without any unique restrictions.

QF does like to say it can offer a non-stop service from London to Australia and, with current equipment, only PER and DRW can do this. When, in future years, QF has the equipment to do ULH non-stops from SYD and MEL to Europe, it will offer these in preference to PER and routes such as PER-FCO, PER-FRA and PER-CDG will probably disappear forever and be replaced by non-stops from SYD. PER-LHR will probably remain with the original flight coming from BNE instead of MEL.

SYD-Europe non-stop is a holy grail for QF and is far more important and attractive to them than a route that requires a stop in PER.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:04 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

I’m with Tullamarine on this one. He occasionally writes factual articles, but generally puts out puff pieces that represent his opinion as ‘news’. I can’t remember what it was, but I have definitely read one article where he cited himself as a source.

In this instance I feel confident that this is no more than GT thinking it could make sense, and then writing that it is probably going to happen. It is unlikely Qantas would give him an exclusive, and if they were planning to move back to PER as soon as the border opened then they would probably have left the door open to that today. Instead they left the door open to staying at DRW beyond June.


But the fundamentals are correct no? PER-LHR was one of the (if no the number one) most profitable international routes for Qantas, so much so they wanted a second daily flight, plus instantly added a Rome flight when the first border opening decision was announced, and talk of a PER-JNB route breakthrough right before the announcement decision was delayed. Permanent investment in the Perth Terminal, only temporary in the Darwin terminal.

Eventually (probably by early next month) the "Hermit Kingdom" will reopen, and I don't see QF just walking away from all that revenue they wanted just a few weeks ago.


I think this is the case of the both being correct.

GT preaching to the choir, ie a very pro WA audience being told what they want to hear and at the same time QF wanting one of their most profitable routes back.
Writing articles like that probably keeps his status / chairmans lounge access up too, so with that and being factually correct and parochial, it's the holy trinity of articles.
 
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qf2220
Posts: 2238
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Tue Feb 15, 2022 11:24 pm

tullamarine wrote:
and routes such as PER-FCO, PER-FRA and PER-CDG will probably disappear forever and be replaced by non-stops from SYD. PER-LHR will probably remain with the original flight coming from BNE instead of MEL.

SYD-Europe non-stop is a holy grail for QF and is far more important and attractive to them than a route that requires a stop in PER.


In this context, might some sort of PER-eastern side of Europe flight make sense? Say something like ATH, long spoken about as a VFR market (but admittedly not all that lucrative), could feed SYD and MEL etc VFR and tourist traffic to ATH for Greek holidays, but then also route PER traffic via a suitable partner to other major cities in Europe. Though is the PER market worth that much?
 
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EK413
Posts: 5891
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Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:32 am

United Airlines is gearing up for a return for direct flights between Melbourne and the USA, with San Francisco first to appear on the departures board.

The Star Alliance member’s restart schedule has the first Melbourne-San Francisco service taking off on Tuesday May 10, with an initial three flights per week then running every Monday, Thursday and Saturday.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... co-flights


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:54 am

EK413 wrote:
United Airlines is gearing up for a return for direct flights between Melbourne and the USA, with San Francisco first to appear on the departures board.

The Star Alliance member’s restart schedule has the first Melbourne-San Francisco service taking off on Tuesday May 10, with an initial three flights per week then running every Monday, Thursday and Saturday.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... co-flights

Good because I've got to go to SFO in November to see my son and the airfares are a bit pricey at the moment. Nearly $2000 return on Qantas and 2300 on United. Interestingly if I was in AKL I could fly QF to Sydney and then to SFO for less than 1400. Yes there are cheaper flights on AC and FJ.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thatcher
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:56 am

EK413 wrote:
United Airlines is gearing up for a return for direct flights between Melbourne and the USA, with San Francisco first to appear on the departures board.

The Star Alliance member’s restart schedule has the first Melbourne-San Francisco service taking off on Tuesday May 10, with an initial three flights per week then running every Monday, Thursday and Saturday.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... co-flights


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


According to the United website, 'roundtrip economy' fares are:
SYD-LAX "from" $1505
MEL-LAX "from" $2135

SYD-SFO "from" $1973
MEL-SFO "from" $2353

Ouch, post-pandemic fares. But why the disparity between SYD / MEL fares? Is it simply a matter of competition / lack of?
 
x1234
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:00 am

Lack of competition in MEL-SFO/LAX. SYD has always had more competition with the US3 and QF on SYD-LAX instead of just UA on MEL-SFO for now. Also MEL-SFO has high yielding tech traffic being used by the likes of Telstra and Aussie/American companies, etc.
 
a320fan
Posts: 1112
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:16 am

Could book a MEL-LAX return with a few days notice for under AU$1000 pre covid. Might be a whilst till we get back to that. Need confidence in bordered remaining open for the capacity to increase.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:34 am

Thatcher wrote:
EK413 wrote:
United Airlines is gearing up for a return for direct flights between Melbourne and the USA, with San Francisco first to appear on the departures board.

The Star Alliance member’s restart schedule has the first Melbourne-San Francisco service taking off on Tuesday May 10, with an initial three flights per week then running every Monday, Thursday and Saturday.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... co-flights


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


According to the United website, 'roundtrip economy' fares are:
SYD-LAX "from" $1505
MEL-LAX "from" $2135

SYD-SFO "from" $1973
MEL-SFO "from" $2353

Ouch, post-pandemic fares. But why the disparity between SYD / MEL fares? Is it simply a matter of competition / lack of?


Just a theory.

SYD LAX is cheap - because competition
MEL LAX is more expensive, because that's probably allowing for a VA connection on the MEL SYD, and VA/UA don't have a JBA across the line yet.
SYD-SFO is likely SYD-LAX-SFO so it's all on UA
MEL-SFO zero competition on the route, and only 3 days a week

The fact that SFO is returning before LAX, suggests UA is chasing connecting traffic, rather than O&D
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 326
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:14 am

Obzerva wrote:
Thatcher wrote:
EK413 wrote:
United Airlines is gearing up for a return for direct flights between Melbourne and the USA, with San Francisco first to appear on the departures board.

The Star Alliance member’s restart schedule has the first Melbourne-San Francisco service taking off on Tuesday May 10, with an initial three flights per week then running every Monday, Thursday and Saturday.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... co-flights


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


According to the United website, 'roundtrip economy' fares are:
SYD-LAX "from" $1505
MEL-LAX "from" $2135

SYD-SFO "from" $1973
MEL-SFO "from" $2353

Ouch, post-pandemic fares. But why the disparity between SYD / MEL fares? Is it simply a matter of competition / lack of?


Just a theory.

SYD LAX is cheap - because competition
MEL LAX is more expensive, because that's probably allowing for a VA connection on the MEL SYD, and VA/UA don't have a JBA across the line yet.
SYD-SFO is likely SYD-LAX-SFO so it's all on UA
MEL-SFO zero competition on the route, and only 3 days a week

The fact that SFO is returning before LAX, suggests UA is chasing connecting traffic, rather than O&D

SYD-SFO is non-stop.

Later this year SQ have a fare MEL-SIN-SFO for under $1500. I'd take that over UA.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:48 am

I can take SQ or JL to SFO in November for substantially less than QF or UA. Not sure about a 26 and a half hours trip though. I'd be taking FJ before either of them.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:00 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
Thatcher wrote:

According to the United website, 'roundtrip economy' fares are:
SYD-LAX "from" $1505
MEL-LAX "from" $2135

SYD-SFO "from" $1973
MEL-SFO "from" $2353

Ouch, post-pandemic fares. But why the disparity between SYD / MEL fares? Is it simply a matter of competition / lack of?


Just a theory.

SYD LAX is cheap - because competition
MEL LAX is more expensive, because that's probably allowing for a VA connection on the MEL SYD, and VA/UA don't have a JBA across the line yet.
SYD-SFO is likely SYD-LAX-SFO so it's all on UA
MEL-SFO zero competition on the route, and only 3 days a week

The fact that SFO is returning before LAX, suggests UA is chasing connecting traffic, rather than O&D

SYD-SFO is non-stop.

Later this year SQ have a fare MEL-SIN-SFO for under $1500. I'd take that over UA.


ah didn't realise, then I'd throw that on the no competition (yet) pile.
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