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Solent
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:21 am

QF could possibly have got some A350, at a good price recently, and could do Rome or Frankfurt with them until they get the A350 ULH, and/or take a hit on payload and go for LHR.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:24 am

I wonder if QF are waiting for WA to open up to announce some more of their new routes? They are probably upset they’d be missing selling windows and have to abandon certain seasonal routes or push them back a year.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:25 am

BNEFlyer wrote:

Later this year SQ have a fare MEL-SIN-SFO for under $1500. I'd take that over UA.


Each to their own, but I personally don’t understand this mentality. Why would someone choose to spend double the amount of time in an Economy Class seat? For what, a better meal?

I’ve flown United several times and would fly them again without hesitation. Of course they’re not the best airline I’ve flown, but the food is edible, the beer is free, and the AVOD has a good amount of choice. I don’t expect much more than that in Economy.

If making a stop saved a bucket load of money then I’d choose FJ. It’s en-route and their product is pretty decent. Their lounge in NAN is much better than anything Qantas has in Australia other than the SYD/MEL First Class lounges.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:37 am

smi0006 wrote:
I wonder if QF are waiting for WA to open up to announce some more of their new routes? They are probably upset they’d be missing selling windows and have to abandon certain seasonal routes or push them back a year.

They are probably also waiting to see what happens with the delivery of new 787s. There are 3 "completed" QF 789s along with about 100 others sitting in the desert awaiting FAA clearance and any necessary rectification. At this stage, the absolute earliest delivery of these could be expected is July but that date is still very vague and is looking increasingly optimistic.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:59 am

NTLDaz wrote:
I can take SQ or JL to SFO in November for substantially less than QF or UA. Not sure about a 26 and a half hours trip though. I'd be taking FJ before either of them.


Ouch on the scheduling. Until the switch from NRT to HND, JL was around 23.5 hours SYD-NRT-JFK or BOS.
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:28 am

Re: WA border. There were 115 community cases today. If, as seems likely, the numbers follow the trajectory of everywhere else there'll be little justification not to open up. NZ is probably getting to the same boat with 1160 cases today.
 
LTEN11
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Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:53 am

NTLDaz wrote:
Re: WA border. There were 115 community cases today. If, as seems likely, the numbers follow the trajectory of everywhere else there'll be little justification not to open up. NZ is probably getting to the same boat with 1160 cases today.


This is the time to face reality and just open up the border to the rest of the country. Either way the case numbers are going to go up, so bite the bullet now, accept that the next couple of months are going to be pretty crap, but at least the state can catch up with the rest of the country and the world. At this stage they're just delaying the inevitable.
 
rushed
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:14 pm

Interesting development if this comes to fruition. Pakistan wanting to launch direct twice weekly flights to Sydney.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenew ... first-time
 
myki
Posts: 483
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:20 pm

    rushed wrote:
    Interesting development if this comes to fruition. Pakistan wanting to launch direct twice weekly flights to Sydney.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenew ... first-time

    As much as for the subcontinent their focus is west towards the Middle East, perhaps PK forgot that people can also fly east via KUL, SIN, etc and not rack up anywhere bear 30+ hours of flying. In saying that, best of luck to them, it is always great to have new routes and options.
     
    tullamarine
    Posts: 3493
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:47 pm

    rushed wrote:
    Interesting development if this comes to fruition. Pakistan wanting to launch direct twice weekly flights to Sydney.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenew ... first-time

    Pakistan has been very difficult to get to for a number of years due to political issues which meant it was considered a dangerous place to visit.

    This meant airlines such as SQ abandoned it as they couldn't risk have crews overnight in Karachi or Lahore. As Pakistan and India have a fractured relationship, the relatively short flight from Delhi or Mumbai wasn't an option either. Instead, the only realistic options became EK or EY who could do the short flight from AUH or DXB without any crew rests in Pakistan. Of course, for Australians, this meant a long flight to the Middle East often followed by an inconvenient transit time before flying back to the subcontinent.
     
    smi0006
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:22 pm

    tullamarine wrote:
    rushed wrote:
    Interesting development if this comes to fruition. Pakistan wanting to launch direct twice weekly flights to Sydney.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenew ... first-time

    Pakistan has been very difficult to get to for a number of years due to political issues which meant it was considered a dangerous place to visit.

    This meant airlines such as SQ abandoned it as they couldn't risk have crews overnight in Karachi or Lahore. As Pakistan and India have a fractured relationship, the relatively short flight from Delhi or Mumbai wasn't an option either. Instead, the only realistic options became EK or EY who could do the short flight from AUH or DXB without any crew rests in Pakistan. Of course, for Australians, this meant a long flight to the Middle East often followed by an inconvenient transit time before flying back to the subcontinent.


    Interesting- I wonder how likely it would be that Australian regulators would give approval, lots of security and compliance audits be completed first - March sounds optimistic to me, maybe march23.
     
    melpax
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Wed Feb 16, 2022 10:52 pm

    TG also normally does a bit of Pakistan-Australia traffic, routing would be more 'direct' than via the Mid East.
     
    melpax
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:41 pm

    Some changes to COVID measures in Victoria.

    International arrivals no longer need to apply for a permit to enter Victora, and those who are unvaccinated only need to quarantine for 7 days instead of 14, this is from tomorrow (18/2).

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/aust ... 59x2c.html
     
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    EK413
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:44 am

    melpax wrote:
    Some changes to COVID measures in Victoria.

    International arrivals no longer need to apply for a permit to enter Victora, and those who are unvaccinated only need to quarantine for 7 days instead of 14, this is from tomorrow (18/2).

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/aust ... 59x2c.html

    Great to see the world slowly returning to normal…

    I thought Pakistan Airlines were banned to operate to EU/UK due to majority of their pilots falsifying their licences?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    tullamarine
    Posts: 3493
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:45 am

    melpax wrote:
    Some changes to COVID measures in Victoria.

    International arrivals no longer need to apply for a permit to enter Victora, and those who are unvaccinated only need to quarantine for 7 days instead of 14, this is from tomorrow (18/2).

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/aust ... 59x2c.html

    Victorian permit was a waste of time anyway. I got one, along with the Australian re-entry permit when I returned from Singapore. No one ever asked to see my permit. All the staff in Customs were Federal Border Force officials so probably had zero interest in an additional state requirement.
     
    smi0006
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:22 am

    Just browsing Instagram- what a contrast between Bonza and Rex social media profiles. I’m no marketing expert but Bonza are nailing it compared to Rex, cohesive messaging and branding, clear information and exciting. Such a wasted opportunity from Rex. Slick!

    https://instagram.com/stories/flybonza/ ... =copy_link
     
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    LoganTheBogan
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:02 am

    smi0006 wrote:
    Just browsing Instagram- what a contrast between Bonza and Rex social media profiles. I’m no marketing expert but Bonza are nailing it compared to Rex, cohesive messaging and branding, clear information and exciting. Such a wasted opportunity from Rex. Slick!

    https://instagram.com/stories/flybonza/ ... =copy_link



    Definitely an upgrade over Rex advertising, especially their MS Office 2003 WordArt "Rex in the City" stuff they released during domestic launch :sour:

    I'm still not a fan of Bonza though. I believe it is very out of touch or the theme is over done and outdated. Comes across as tacky and a bit vomit-worthy IMO.

    I completely understand their target market and see the hype with the prices but I just can't see myself flying with them.
     
    Kent350787
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:43 am

    LoganTheBogan wrote:
    smi0006 wrote:
    Just browsing Instagram- what a contrast between Bonza and Rex social media profiles. I’m no marketing expert but Bonza are nailing it compared to Rex, cohesive messaging and branding, clear information and exciting. Such a wasted opportunity from Rex. Slick!

    https://instagram.com/stories/flybonza/ ... =copy_link



    Definitely an upgrade over Rex advertising, especially their MS Office 2003 WordArt "Rex in the City" stuff they released during domestic launch :sour:

    I'm still not a fan of Bonza though. I believe it is very out of touch or the theme is over done and outdated. Comes across as tacky and a bit vomit-worthy IMO.

    I completely understand their target market and see the hype with the prices but I just can't see myself flying with them.


    Has Bonza fixed the typos yet, or are they still flying to Coffs harboour?
     
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    LoganTheBogan
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:34 am

    Kent350787 wrote:
    LoganTheBogan wrote:
    smi0006 wrote:
    Just browsing Instagram- what a contrast between Bonza and Rex social media profiles. I’m no marketing expert but Bonza are nailing it compared to Rex, cohesive messaging and branding, clear information and exciting. Such a wasted opportunity from Rex. Slick!

    https://instagram.com/stories/flybonza/ ... =copy_link



    Definitely an upgrade over Rex advertising, especially their MS Office 2003 WordArt "Rex in the City" stuff they released during domestic launch :sour:

    I'm still not a fan of Bonza though. I believe it is very out of touch or the theme is over done and outdated. Comes across as tacky and a bit vomit-worthy IMO.

    I completely understand their target market and see the hype with the prices but I just can't see myself flying with them.


    Has Bonza fixed the typos yet, or are they still flying to Coffs harboour?


    That and the 5 digit zip code requirement to sign up for their app!
     
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    SCFlyer
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:33 am

    IndianicWorld wrote:
    oskarclare wrote:
    CraigAnderson wrote:

    Virgin's new partner is United Airlines, but that doesn't start until April, until then they are still allied with Delta. I presume you could turn your VA credits from flights cancelled during COVID into a booking on Delta to the end of March or United from April onwards.

    As for Virgin returning to the USA, I honestly don't think anybody expects that will happen. I think one reason they went with United is because UA flies the same or equivalent routes as Qantas, eg SYD-LAX/SFO, MEL-LAX/SFO and SYD-IAH, which Virgin could never do and which Virgin has no intention of doing. I reckon Virgin will remain a domestic-only airline except for a few key and profitable short-haul routes such as NZ, Fiji and Bali.

    And I would rather them do that and focus on this as their core market and their core strength, and become a solid and real alternative to Qantas rather than just a me-too competitor.


    From memory, VA were actually quite profitable on the LAX route so I think it's a bit unfair to say they were a 'me-too' operator. However, I personally don't see any point in bringing 6-8x 787's or 350's for a LAX route UA can operate anyway with better year-round frequency and reliability. Now VA inked in with UA you would expect MEL/SYD/probs BNE-LAX/SFO and a couple additional routes from SYD and/or MEL.


    I agree that I don’t see much value in VA going back into long haul, but it will be interesting to see if VA/UA look to further deepen their partnership what the terms of that agreement would be. The VA/DL JV apparently had had requirements for VA to operate to LAX.

    As for additional routes, I don’t see that many opportunities outside of adding BNE. MEL-IAH is too long a route, and I can’t see UA starting SYD/MEL-DEN services anytime soon.


    Can't see the UA/VA partnership going past the codeshare/FF for the short term. Theoretically VA could operate HND and LAX from BNE and upgrade that to a JV that way, but setting up JVs do involve a bit of CapEx, which I would assume Bain are not willing at this time.

    Also leasing up to 4 widebodies for both BNE/HND services is still a small subfleet and chances of that would also be close to zero.

    Considering the Queensland Government announcment in regards to International Airline subsidies funding, a partially taxpayer subsidised UA operated BNE-LAX/SFO, if at all, would likely be from October at the earliest (and potentially be announced as seasonal initially on a "use it or lose it" basis with undisclosed load/yield targets in the agreement).
     
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    SCFlyer
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 7:39 am

    smi0006 wrote:
    Just browsing Instagram- whateve a contrast between Bonza and Rex social media profiles. I’m no marketing expert but Bonza are nailing it compared to Rex, cohesive messaging and branding, clear information and exciting. Such a wasted opportunity from Rex. Slick!

    https://instagram.com/stories/flybonza/ ... =copy_link


    I do wonder if REX are doing their marketing internally, or have hired a 'extremely' dismal (at best) company to do their marketing. As it seems clear that Bonza have spent quite an amount of expenses on marketing (regardless if they hired a decent marketing company or have extremely good internal marketing staff).
     
    a320fan
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:30 am

    SCFlyer wrote:
    smi0006 wrote:
    Just browsing Instagram- whateve a contrast between Bonza and Rex social media profiles. I’m no marketing expert but Bonza are nailing it compared to Rex, cohesive messaging and branding, clear information and exciting. Such a wasted opportunity from Rex. Slick!

    https://instagram.com/stories/flybonza/ ... =copy_link


    I do wonder if REX are doing their marketing internally, or have hired a 'extremely' dismal (at best) company to do their marketing. As it seems clear that Bonza have spent quite an amount of expenses on marketing (regardless if they hired a decent marketing company or have extremely good internal marketing staff).


    Rex’s marketing screams internal probably from one person who doesn’t have much if any actual experience in the field, maybe they got a part time intern to join them to polish things up a small tad when they started jet ops.
     
    evanb
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:19 am

    SCFlyer wrote:
    Can't see the UA/VA partnership going past the codeshare/FF for the short term. Theoretically VA could operate HND and LAX from BNE and upgrade that to a JV that way, but setting up JVs do involve a bit of CapEx, which I would assume Bain are not willing at this time.


    The advantage of a JV is the antitrust/competition immunity which involves being able to coordinate and integrate operations, pricing/revenue management, scheduling, etc on the overlapping routes, in this case, the transpacific sectors between the US and Australia and vice versa. As long as VA are not going to reenter the transpacific sectors anytime soon, a JV really brings about no tangible benefits that cannot be realized under the current arrangement where they can still codeshare and have other reciprocal arrangements. They are more than capable of even coordinating schedules for domestic connections.

    Strangely, in the current configuration, I think the codeshare is better for VA since they'll be able to eek out a little more yield from UA on domestic connections (dare I say that UA need VA more than VA need UA, and where there wouldn't be an incentive to do that in a JV since they'd be sharing the spoils anyway).
     
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    SCFlyer
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:48 am

    evanb wrote:
    SCFlyer wrote:
    Can't see the UA/VA partnership going past the codeshare/FF for the short term. Theoretically VA could operate HND and LAX from BNE and upgrade that to a JV that way, but setting up JVs do involve a bit of CapEx, which I would assume Bain are not willing at this time.


    The advantage of a JV is the antitrust/competition immunity which involves being able to coordinate and integrate operations, pricing/revenue management, scheduling, etc on the overlapping routes, in this case, the transpacific sectors between the US and Australia and vice versa. As long as VA are not going to reenter the transpacific sectors anytime soon, a JV really brings about no tangible benefits that cannot be realized under the current arrangement where they can still codeshare and have other reciprocal arrangements. They are more than capable of even coordinating schedules for domestic connections.

    Strangely, in the current configuration, I think the codeshare is better for VA since they'll be able to eek out a little more yield from UA on domestic connections (dare I say that UA need VA more than VA need UA, and where there wouldn't be an incentive to do that in a JV since they'd be sharing the spoils anyway).


    Frankly agreed, hence I've mentioned at least the short term, Although personally I can't see any UA/VA partnership being upgraded to a JV (like the old Delta/VA partnership) for the foreseeable future (if at all).

    Personally any future VA partnerships to long haul destinations would be just be a simple codeshare and FF reciprocation. No point spending the CapEx to set up a JV when it's clear that only 1 carrier will be doing 100% of the work.
     
    tullamarine
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:27 pm

    No point spending the CapEx to set up a JV when it's clear that only 1 carrier will be doing 100% of the work.

    I hate to be picky but setting up a JV would be opex principally legal and regulatory expenses. It cannot be capex because, at the end, there is no asset created.
     
    NZ516
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Thu Feb 17, 2022 11:50 pm

    REX is now going to expand its 737 fleet to 30. They will take advantage of very cheap aircraft lease rates apparently.

    https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... ecc6403309
     
    smi0006
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:16 am

    NZ516 wrote:
    REX is now going to expand its 737 fleet to 30. They will take advantage of very cheap aircraft lease rates apparently.

    https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... ecc6403309


    We'll this could be over fast. I wonder where we will see them deployed? Open PER?
     
    tullamarine
    Posts: 3493
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:17 am

    NZ516 wrote:
    REX is now going to expand its 737 fleet to 30. They will take advantage of very cheap aircraft lease rates apparently.

    https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... ecc6403309


    Interesting quote by Mr Lim in that article
    Lim said the 2021 and 2022 operating environment has “not been easy”, following months of travel restrictions, the Australian Omicron surge and staff shortages.

    “No airline makes money when planes are half-full,” he said.


    Anecdotally, it seems REX should be very excited if its 737 were half-full.
     
    NZ516
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:21 am

    smi0006 wrote:
    NZ516 wrote:
    REX is now going to expand its 737 fleet to 30. They will take advantage of very cheap aircraft lease rates apparently.

    https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... ecc6403309


    We'll this could be over fast. I wonder where we will see them deployed? Open PER?


    Yes Perth and to all state capital cities according to the story. So will get even more crowded sky's in the years ahead.
     
    NZ516
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 12:21 am

    Plus with Bonza expansion across the country there will be a lot of new developments coming making the future very exciting
     
    Thatcher
    Posts: 54
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:01 am

    NZ516 wrote:
    smi0006 wrote:
    NZ516 wrote:
    REX is now going to expand its 737 fleet to 30. They will take advantage of very cheap aircraft lease rates apparently.

    https://australianaviation.com.au/2022/ ... ecc6403309


    We'll this could be over fast. I wonder where we will see them deployed? Open PER?


    Yes Perth and to all state capital cities according to the story. So will get even more crowded sky's in the years ahead.


    Hopefully REX will become SIA's fully-backed domestic operator in time, provide some realistic choice.

    We have seen many airlines come and go since deregulation, and I expect we will add Bonza to the 'gone' column in time. But can QF put SQ's "domestic airline" out of business? Could get interesting.
     
    tullamarine
    Posts: 3493
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:17 am

    Thatcher wrote:
    NZ516 wrote:
    smi0006 wrote:

    We'll this could be over fast. I wonder where we will see them deployed? Open PER?


    Yes Perth and to all state capital cities according to the story. So will get even more crowded sky's in the years ahead.


    Hopefully REX will become SIA's fully-backed domestic operator in time, provide some realistic choice.

    We have seen many airlines come and go since deregulation, and I expect we will add Bonza to the 'gone' column in time. But can QF put SQ's "domestic airline" out of business? Could get interesting.

    What makes you think SQ has any interest whatsoever in investing in REX? SQ has lost a lot of money with investing in Australian domestic airlines. I can't see what would attract them to invest in a poorly differentiated minnow up against two much bigger competitors.
     
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    RyanairGuru
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:17 am

    Thatcher wrote:
    NZ516 wrote:
    smi0006 wrote:

    We'll this could be over fast. I wonder where we will see them deployed? Open PER?


    Yes Perth and to all state capital cities according to the story. So will get even more crowded sky's in the years ahead.


    Hopefully REX will become SIA's fully-backed domestic operator in time, provide some realistic choice.

    We have seen many airlines come and go since deregulation, and I expect we will add Bonza to the 'gone' column in time. But can QF put SQ's "domestic airline" out of business? Could get interesting.


    There’s no connection between Rex and Singapore Airlines. Rex isn’t even connected with Temasek Holdings.

    Temasek, and indirectly Singapore Airlines, were involved in Tigerair Australia (noting that this was before the merger of Tigerair Singapore and Scoot) and of course Singapore Airlines were burned by Virgin Australia, and Ansett before that. I sincerely doubt that Singapore Airlines/Temasek have any burning desire to purchase Rex to re-enter the Australian market.
     
    jrfspa320
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:38 am

    RyanairGuru wrote:
    Thatcher wrote:
    NZ516 wrote:

    Yes Perth and to all state capital cities according to the story. So will get even more crowded sky's in the years ahead.


    Hopefully REX will become SIA's fully-backed domestic operator in time, provide some realistic choice.

    We have seen many airlines come and go since deregulation, and I expect we will add Bonza to the 'gone' column in time. But can QF put SQ's "domestic airline" out of business? Could get interesting.


    There’s no connection between Rex and Singapore Airlines. Rex isn’t even connected with Temasek Holdings.

    Temasek, and indirectly Singapore Airlines, were involved in Tigerair Australia (noting that this was before the merger of Tigerair Singapore and Scoot) and of course Singapore Airlines were burned by Virgin Australia, and Ansett before that. I sincerely doubt that Singapore Airlines/Temasek have any burning desire to purchase Rex to re-enter the Australian market.


    Agree, SQ have the strongest presence and network of any foreign carrier (maybe NZ excluded), they dont really need the domestic connectivity.
     
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    SCFlyer
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:49 am

    SQ has tried the Australian domestic market 3 times (Ansett, Tiger Airways Australia and Virgin Australia), and have failed each time.
    If SQ lost hundreds of millions on each of their previous attempts at the Australian market, there's very little chance of them getting involved in the Australian domestic market for a 4th time.

    On a side note: SQ also indirectly wholly own Tiger Airways Australia via Tiger Airways Holdings before selling the Australian operations to Virgin Australia. So technically SQ did own 100% of a Australian domestic airline briefly, even if it's indirect through the Tiger Airways Holdings umbrella.
     
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    SCFlyer
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:52 am

    RyanairGuru wrote:
    Thatcher wrote:
    NZ516 wrote:

    Yes Perth and to all state capital cities according to the story. So will get even more crowded sky's in the years ahead.


    Hopefully REX will become SIA's fully-backed domestic operator in time, provide some realistic choice.

    We have seen many airlines come and go since deregulation, and I expect we will add Bonza to the 'gone' column in time. But can QF put SQ's "domestic airline" out of business? Could get interesting.


    There’s no connection between Rex and Singapore Airlines. Rex isn’t even connected with Temasek Holdings.


    REX from last check of the ASX is majority-owned by a Singapore based consortium of Singapore businessmen and Singaporean-based Private Equity firm PAG.
    PAG was one of the primary investors behind the roll-out of the 'RexJet' 737 operations.
     
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    LoganTheBogan
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:58 am

    I set up a Rex thread discussing their future and potential problems moving forward, which can be found here if discussions want to get more detailed:

    viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1470441
     
    tullamarine
    Posts: 3493
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:58 am

    SCFlyer wrote:
    SQ has tried the Australian domestic market 3 times (Ansett, Tiger Airways Australia and Virgin Australia), and have failed each time.
    If SQ lost hundreds of millions on each of their previous attempts at the Australian market, there's very little chance of them getting involved in the Australian domestic market for a 4th time.

    On a side note: SQ also indirectly wholly own Tiger Airways Australia via Tiger Airways Holdings before selling the Australian operations to Virgin Australia. So technically SQ did own 100% of a Australian domestic airline briefly, even if it's indirect through the Tiger Airways Holdings umbrella.

    Technically, SQ never had shares in AN. It did offer $500M to buy News' 50% share of the company but NZ, under the hapless management of Selwyn Cushing, had pre-emptive rights which it exercised. This forced SQ into investing into NZ rather than AN but was a disastrous outcome all round and led to the collapse of AN and meant NZ had to be virtually nationalised again to survive.
    Last edited by tullamarine on Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
     
    Thatcher
    Posts: 54
    Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:30 am

    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:05 am

    Ah, my mistake re Rex - I knew "Singapore investors" and assumed Temasek.

    SQ have lost money down here - I'd hoped they had learned their lessons and would come back in force, with what I believe are open skies between the two countries giving them the opportunity to run their own domestic / feeder airline. But as I say, my misunderstanding in this instance.

    Having followed the chat these past few days, some of you do seem hostile towards REX. They seem to be bumbling amateurs in many way, not at all slick. Not sure why that attracts the negative sentiment though, I personally wish them well.
     
    moa999
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:14 am

    So what's the net change in narrow body aircraft in Australia over all of this?

    Qantas - flat at 75. But has added 320s to QL, and JQ will add 321s in 2022.

    Virgin - down 10 or so from 80 to 70? But also down 6 330s

    Rex - up 6, and now saying growth to 30

    Bonza - planned 5, and more options via 777 Partners.
     
    tullamarine
    Posts: 3493
    Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:20 am

    Thatcher wrote:
    Ah, my mistake re Rex - I knew "Singapore investors" and assumed Temasek.

    SQ have lost money down here - I'd hoped they had learned their lessons and would come back in force, with what I believe are open skies between the two countries giving them the opportunity to run their own domestic / feeder airline. But as I say, my misunderstanding in this instance.

    Having followed the chat these past few days, some of you do seem hostile towards REX. They seem to be bumbling amateurs in many way, not at all slick. Not sure why that attracts the negative sentiment though, I personally wish them well.

    SQ could start its own domestic operation in Australia if it chose to. There are no local ownership requirements for an Australian domestic airline. Having said that, attempting to do so would be madness. If they are still keen to control an Australian airline (which I doubt), they would be better off coming to an arrangement with Bain when it chooses to sell down its VA stake by IPO or trade sale.

    It is important to remember that SQ's original attempt to buy into Australian domestic aviation was way back in the early 90's when Qantas was privatised. SQ bid for the 25% trade sale component and, apparently, bid more than BA. SQ felt it was an almost racist decision that meant BA was the winning bidder and was embittered by its experience. How different history may have been had SQ ended up being the 25% owner of QF.
     
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    qf789
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:06 am

    Today in the WA Supreme Court a judge has ruled broadly in favour of Perth Airport in the case against Qantas over unpaid airport fees and also asset valuations

    https://www.airlineratings.com/news/per ... s-charges/
     
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    qf789
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:19 am

    Developing story atm, there are unconfirmed reports that the WA border opening is set for 3 March

    https://twitter.com/g_parker/status/149 ... 77827?s=21
     
    jrfspa320
    Posts: 883
    Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:20 am

    qf789 wrote:
    Developing story atm, there are unconfirmed reports that the WA border opening is set for 3 March

    https://twitter.com/g_parker/status/149 ... 77827?s=21


    It will definitely be March, just a matter of setting an exact date now.
     
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    qf789
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:40 am

    qf789 wrote:
    Developing story atm, there are unconfirmed reports that the WA border opening is set for 3 March

    https://twitter.com/g_parker/status/149 ... 77827?s=21


    Now confirmed, border reopens 3 March

    Let’s see how airlines react

    https://twitter.com/7newsperth/status/1 ... 30912?s=21
     
    ArtV
    Posts: 189
    Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:29 pm

    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:49 am

    qf789 wrote:
    qf789 wrote:
    Developing story atm, there are unconfirmed reports that the WA border opening is set for 3 March

    https://twitter.com/g_parker/status/149 ... 77827?s=21


    Now confirmed, border reopens 3 March

    Let’s see how airlines react

    https://twitter.com/7newsperth/status/1 ... 30912?s=21


    Probably very carefully - given the costs of the announcement and cancellations last time
     
    zkncj
    Posts: 4745
    Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:57 am

    moa999 wrote:
    So what's the net change in narrow body aircraft in Australia over all of this?

    Qantas - flat at 75. But has added 320s to QL, and JQ will add 321s in 2022.

    Virgin - down 10 or so from 80 to 70? But also down 6 330s

    Rex - up 6, and now saying growth to 30

    Bonza - planned 5, and more options via 777 Partners.


    Don't forget with VA's down 10 738's you need to take into account the lack of International, 10x 738s would roughly have covered there flights to AKL,WLG,CHC,ZQN,NAN,RAR,DPS,TBU.
    An average day on the Tasman probably would of consumed around 8x frames, if anything VA paying to 10x less 738s right now is probably an good thing.

    An common AKL pattens were AKL-SYD-DPS-SYD-AKL / AKL-BNE-NAN-BNE-AKL, AKL-BNE-DPS-BNE-AKL, AKL-BNE-HIR-BNE-AKL AKL-BNE-POM-BNE-AKL etc.
     
    anstar
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:27 am

    smi0006 wrote:
    Just browsing Instagram- what a contrast between Bonza and Rex social media profiles. I’m no marketing expert but Bonza are nailing it compared to Rex, cohesive messaging and branding, clear information and exciting. Such a wasted opportunity from Rex. Slick!

    https://instagram.com/stories/flybonza/ ... =copy_link


    Bonza have a pretty strong exec team with people from both Virgin and Jetstar.... which I am sure makes a difference.
     
    vossitch
    Posts: 9
    Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:51 pm

    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:27 am

    I'm no expert, but after travelling to Tassie and back in the last week from Sydney, and looking at Flight radar it's clear that Virgin has some slack in their schedule as the 737 are sometimes spending 2 or 3 days in Sydney. And you only have to look at the number of planes at the Qantas base in Sydney to see they have similar spares.

    Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk
     
    anstar
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    Re: Australian Aviation Thread - February 2022

    Fri Feb 18, 2022 7:29 am

    Thatcher wrote:
    But can QF put SQ's "domestic airline" out of business? Could get interesting.

    They've done it recently with Tiger.
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