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Speedy752
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:29 am

It’s regularly stated here that if a passenger can’t wear a mask they shouldn’t be flying, why should someone fly if they can’t handle peanuts being in a different section of the plane? ADA is “reasonable” accommodations which is likely not serving them in the rows near that individual. I have been on Southwest flights where they announce they aren’t serving peanuts, but I’d imagine it’s because they seem to have a ton of other snacks onboard. Now excuse me while I snack on some nuts, this conversation has made me hungry
 
Kikko19
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:16 am

MrPeanut wrote:
Who doesn’t like a peanut ?

I've to remind myself to bring peanuts every time I fly or travel with others.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:06 am

Heinkel wrote:
bval wrote:
I am not a medical professional but I can read. The science says there's no reason to make accomodations for peanut allergy sufferers. They are perfectly safe in an airplane cabin and almost anywhere else. A fine example of accommodating feelings where science knows better.

If passengers insist on accomodations for peanut allergies with no evidence to support it, the airlines should say no and educate travelers.

For years we put up with misbehaving "emotional support animals" (not real service dogs, which are fine) on flights, and the industry finally took a stand against it. This should be treated no differently.


Looks like this "peanut allergy problem" like the "emotional support animal problem" only occurs in the USA or with passengers from the USA. Are there reports from other countries and continents about problems related to passengers with peanuts allegies in air travel?

Never heard about this problem in Europe.

As other poster here mentioned before, if these people have such strong alergies, that the slightest trace of (pea)nuts dust can cause an allergic shock, how did they survive the way through the airport's restaurant and lounge area to the gate?

Do these people also ask to stop serving (pea)nuts in the F and J lounges?


The way to prevent peanut allergies is to feed peanut containing foods to infants. Peanut allergies are uncommon in countries that have lots of peanuts in their diet.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:11 am

I feel sorry for this lady… BUT: peanut allergy is just one kind of allergy. How long will the announcements become if FA‘s will have to cover each and every potential threat?!? For example allergy against pets or these comfort animals… or hazelnut allergy. You could even think of a scenario where someone in front of your row still has some seeds in his/her hair and then shake his head. How do you cover such a risk?
 
Thrusty69
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:27 am

Lift up any seat cushion in any class of service on any airliner… You will find bits of peanuts every time. Along with other delicious treats.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:29 am

I probably leave a wake of bodies after my flights. I always pack peanuts for my trips. Only once a seat mate asked me not to open my bag of peanuts and respected her wishes. I know people who are allergic to chocolate, strawberries, soy, etc. So where does it stop?
 
alasizon
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:37 am

AA's policy (and that of several other carriers) is that in the event a nut allergy exists on board and the distance is not acceptable to the passenger that they are rebooted for a later flight at no-charge in accordance with the ACAA. If nuts are not being served by the airline but rather brought on board by another passenger, whomever booked last is removed and same rules apply (same applies if there is a severe dog allergy, etc.).

It's very clear from Part 382 what options the airline has and if the accommodation is reasonable but still does not work for the passenger, then that passenger is out of luck. The airline is required to provide reasonable access to the aircraft but they are not responsible for guaranteeing an allergen free zone.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:23 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
I am very sorry that the lady has a nut allergy. However, if she has a serious allergy like that, then the time to handle things would have been when she booked her ticket - call AA and see if they could accommodate her.


Except that we all know that reaching a real human on the 800-numbers these days within a reasonable amount of time is next to impossible, and when you do, it's likely to be someone based offshore who has no idea how to handle unusual situations.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:26 am

santi319 wrote:
To be honest usually a buffer zone is required for peanut allergies and thats it.


So why couldn't AA provide a buffer zone on this particular flight? We don't know where she was sitting; the first row of Y can still be close to the last row of J.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:35 am

kalvado wrote:
Heinkel wrote:
Looks like this "peanut allergy problem" like the "emotional support animal problem" only occurs in the USA or with passengers from the USA. Are there reports from other countries and continents about problems related to passengers with peanuts allegies in air travel? Never heard about this problem in Europe.


Just first link from Google search:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-17727181
and a policy:
https://www.ryanair.com/lv/en/useful-in ... -still-fly


We can't win. You either get virtue-signalling Europeans who complain that the US affords too little social protections to its citizens, or others who complain it affords too much.
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:37 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:

The way to prevent peanut allergies is to feed peanut containing foods to infants. Peanut allergies are uncommon in countries that have lots of peanuts in their diet.


But surely the US (which produces a lot of peanuts; remember Jimmy Carter?) is a country that has a lot of peanuts in a typical diet. Perhaps West Africa, with its peanut soups, has more. But where else?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:53 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
Heinkel wrote:
bval wrote:
I am not a medical professional but I can read. The science says there's no reason to make accomodations for peanut allergy sufferers. They are perfectly safe in an airplane cabin and almost anywhere else. A fine example of accommodating feelings where science knows better.

If passengers insist on accomodations for peanut allergies with no evidence to support it, the airlines should say no and educate travelers.

For years we put up with misbehaving "emotional support animals" (not real service dogs, which are fine) on flights, and the industry finally took a stand against it. This should be treated no differently.


Looks like this "peanut allergy problem" like the "emotional support animal problem" only occurs in the USA or with passengers from the USA. Are there reports from other countries and continents about problems related to passengers with peanuts allegies in air travel?

Never heard about this problem in Europe.

As other poster here mentioned before, if these people have such strong alergies, that the slightest trace of (pea)nuts dust can cause an allergic shock, how did they survive the way through the airport's restaurant and lounge area to the gate?

Do these people also ask to stop serving (pea)nuts in the F and J lounges?


The way to prevent peanut allergies is to feed peanut containing foods to infants. Peanut allergies are uncommon in countries that have lots of peanuts in their diet.


Are you a MD specialized in allergies? I have a serious allergie, in this case urticaria with a reaction to protein from the milk of cows. The specialist treating my allergie, explained to me, that to much cow milk as a small child would be the reason I developed this allergie. I was diagnosed at the age of 12 and the reaction to cow milk protein is less today than then, because of me not consuming products with cow milk protein.

Anyway one should distinguish between a nut allergy and a peanut allergy. Peanuts are not related to nuts, they are legume related rather to beans and peas.

There is no question, that an airplane is a rather small enclosed environment, with the air not being separate between different compartments.

I do not pretend to know how serious a nut or peanut allergy can be, but there is also no question about, that there are people dying because of an allergic reaction.

If the resolution is, that on one flight the passengers can not consume peanuts or nuts, why this aggressive reaction here on this forum to that suggestion?
Can people not live through a flight without nuts?
 
santi319
Posts: 1463
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:14 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
SurlyBonds wrote:
santi319 wrote:
To be honest usually a buffer zone is required for peanut allergies and thats it.


So why couldn't AA provide a buffer zone on this particular flight? We don't know where she was sitting; the first row of Y can still be close to the last row of J.


Did you read the article? She demanded a Nut free flight, not a buffer zone. If she was sitting in the first row of Y there are lavs that divide it with J in this aircraft. Youre just splitting hairs at this point.
 
kalvado
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:54 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
Heinkel wrote:

Looks like this "peanut allergy problem" like the "emotional support animal problem" only occurs in the USA or with passengers from the USA. Are there reports from other countries and continents about problems related to passengers with peanuts allegies in air travel?

Never heard about this problem in Europe.

As other poster here mentioned before, if these people have such strong alergies, that the slightest trace of (pea)nuts dust can cause an allergic shock, how did they survive the way through the airport's restaurant and lounge area to the gate?

Do these people also ask to stop serving (pea)nuts in the F and J lounges?


The way to prevent peanut allergies is to feed peanut containing foods to infants. Peanut allergies are uncommon in countries that have lots of peanuts in their diet.


Are you a MD specialized in allergies? I have a serious allergie, in this case urticaria with a reaction to protein from the milk of cows. The specialist treating my allergie, explained to me, that to much cow milk as a small child would be the reason I developed this allergie. I was diagnosed at the age of 12 and the reaction to cow milk protein is less today than then, because of me not consuming products with cow milk protein.

Anyway one should distinguish between a nut allergy and a peanut allergy. Peanuts are not related to nuts, they are legume related rather to beans and peas.

There is no question, that an airplane is a rather small enclosed environment, with the air not being Тоseparate between different compartments.

I do not pretend to know how serious a nut or peanut allergy can be, but there is also no question about, that there are people dying because of an allergic reaction.

If the resolution is, that on one flight the passengers can not consume peanuts or nuts, why this aggressive reaction here on this forum to that suggestion?
Can people not live through a flight without nuts?

As far as I can tell, sizeable amount of allergen has to get to mucus membrane to cause a problem. Not odor, not dust from processed nuts.
Looks like biggest concern is pieces left over from previous flights, stuck to hand and then getting into a mouth - hence wiping surfaces is recommended.
That is the proper resolution.
An extra layer of protection - seemingly excessive, but not ridiculously excessive - is to ask people in immediate vicinity - like one row ahead and behind -not to eat peanuts.
Anything beyond that seem to be not allergy but mental health issue.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:00 pm

The accommodation is one row forward and back.

End of story
 
sUAisDL
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:19 pm

Laidback4 wrote:
What did she expect? That everyone else should not consume nuts just because she has an allergy? She gets to inconvenience everyone else, because lets be frank, it's all about her, right? Removing her from the flight was the correct response IMO.


Exactly well done AA
 
RobertS975
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:53 pm

How do baseball and football stadiums handle the patrons with peanut allergies? How does Waffle House or IHOP handle the patrons with egg allergies?
 
MSNfan
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:57 pm

It is nice to read some posts in support of people with severe allergies. My brother has a severe peanut allergy and I recall making a post on this site about it back in the mid 2000s and being shocked how many people thought the answer was just that he should never be able to fly. He plans ahead, communicates with staff/crew as soon as he arrives at the gate, brings his own PPE and most importantly researches ahead of time to get on flights/routes that don't serve them to begin with! Crews always make an announcement for him to the rest of the plane but he is fully aware that passenger compliance is always a wildcard. Airtrain used to be really good for that, these days he flies a lot of United. Delta and American have always had nuts and he avoids them.
 
jeffrey1970
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:15 pm

I love nuts, but not at the cost of someone else's life. I guess I don't see why it is a big deal to give up nuts for one flight.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:31 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
How do baseball and football stadiums handle the patrons with peanut allergies? How does Waffle House or IHOP handle the patrons with egg allergies?


Those are fair questions but those venues aren't covered by the ACAA.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:41 pm

United787 wrote:
I am a parent of someone with a peanut allergy (and formerly tree nuts and eggs also). Granted his allergy is not 'severe' per se, most people who have an allergy have some level of risk of an anaphylactic shock, including my son. But, I have always wondered about the people that fear exposure from airborne peanut 'dust' and is that a real risk. I don't know the answer to that question but I can tell you that our allergist said NOT to remove peanuts from our home because casual exposure is good for overcoming the allergy. In fact, immunotherapy is now being used too treat peanut allergies essentially uses exposure to desensitize patients over a period of time. We eat peanuts and peanut products in the vicinity of my son but we are careful.

Keeping on topic, anyone with an allergy expecting an entire airplane full of passengers to not eat a certain food because you have an allergy to it is being completely unrealistic. If your doctor says that your sensitivity is that severe than you need to: a) find another method of travel; b) mitigate your risks through other methods (N95 mask etc.); or c) don't travel at all.

Note: I am NOT a doctor, please take my thoughts above as purely opinions...


This was the advice given to one of my relatives when their kid had a severe reaction to peanuts. They followed it, and kid subsequently lost that allergy. As an aside, food taboos may implant in the same parts of the brain related to tribal/political/religious loyalties. We have friends who, if a new food avoidance becomes popular, quickly develops that 'allergy'. We don't discuss it. I have been know to toss an orange to a friend after being told three times in a row what they could not eat.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:32 pm

Except that we all know that reaching a real human on the 800-numbers these days within a reasonable amount of time is next to impossible, and when you do, it's likely to be someone based offshore who has no idea how to handle unusual situations.


That may be true, but that doesn't mean that she shouldn't have tried, instead of showing up at the airport and expecting her needs to trump airline operations without any warning whatsoever. Also, did she expect everyone else on the flight to not eat their personal snacks? Snacks that they paid good money for on a longer duration flight? Was American supposed to confiscate other passengers' personal food items that may contain nuts? That smacks of a, "Me first," mentality.

Had she made the effort and American then reneged or dropped the ball, I'd absolutely be on her side. However, she didn't make the effort. That's the simple fact.
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:26 pm

IMO, unless other facts come out, I do agree with AA. This is public transportation. Everyone has the same right to be on that aircraft. The passenger was effectively looking for her situation to trump everyone else's on the aircraft. If you look at most accommodation provisions (i.e. - ADA), the standard is reasonable. I believe what she was requesting was unreasonable for public transportation.

In terms of her treatment on BA. I find some of her statements questionable. I agree BA could have made some announcements and talked to the passengers in the rows around her. However, unless she went up to business class, I find it suspect that she can say they stopped serving nuts. Also, she could have said things differently to the BA crew after her experience with the AA crew. In other words, each crew was working with a different set of facts.

Finally, if you go on to the AA website, they have a detailed discussion of what they will and won't do on an aircraft. In part, it says "We can't accommodate requests to not serve certain foods or to provide nut "buffer zones"..." If she has such a significant allergy, she should have researched AA's policy.
 
Exiled
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:29 pm

As a person with family members that have various allergies I think AA did the right thing.
Ultimately you have to protect yourself. My family members just bring their own food and drinks when flying. Nobody every complained because they are aware of the dangers that might happen due to a simple mistake or miscommunication.
 
Lootess
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:38 pm

Seemed like when they challenged the Purser, they made the final call, and considering LHR and AA having a cozy schedule with BA, not a hard decision to make.

MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.


Provocative. You should ask Oscar Munoz what re-accommodate meant to United at the time.
 
DenverTed
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:09 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
The accommodation is one row forward and back.

End of story

And the option to board early and wipe down surfaces. It seems like this should be on a DOT website and consistent for airlines. But I guess it is entertaining to see the ongoing conflict and negotiation between passengers and employees if it is still nebulous or unsettled territory.
 
Flflyer83
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:35 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
I am very sorry that the lady has a nut allergy. However, if she has a serious allergy like that, then the time to handle things would have been when she booked her ticket - call AA and see if they could accommodate her.


Except that we all know that reaching a real human on the 800-numbers these days within a reasonable amount of time is next to impossible, and when you do, it's likely to be someone based offshore who has no idea how to handle unusual situations.


AA agents are US-based. You can also tweet them or send them messages on Facebook.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:16 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

The way to prevent peanut allergies is to feed peanut containing foods to infants. Peanut allergies are uncommon in countries that have lots of peanuts in their diet.


But surely the US (which produces a lot of peanuts; remember Jimmy Carter?) is a country that has a lot of peanuts in a typical diet. Perhaps West Africa, with its peanut soups, has more. But where else?


There are huge regional differences in what people in the US eat. Peanuts are grown mostly in the southeastern US. I made sure my son started eating peanut butter beginning at about 5 months old. I explained to my wife who is Ukrainian that I wanted to make sure he didn't develop peanut allergies.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:07 pm

Americans all over feast on nuts. The nut aisle at the local food market is huge. That may be why we, anecdotally, have these nut allergy issues compared to other countries; nuts are massively popular out here, and they're in all manner of foods and snacks.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:18 pm

Allow me to relate a story about a passenger who had a peanut allergy. I was a gate agent for the now-defunct Comair in the now-razed Concourse C at CVG. This happened back in 1999. Granted, the aircraft the passenger was booked on was a single-class Bombardier CRJ-100. But I knew how potentially violent and deadly an allergic reaction to peanuts could be. I was working meet and assist, and the agent boarding the flight was a young lady. Two other young ladies, both gate agents, were standing behind the young lady boarding the flight, looking at the info from dispatch about our passenger. All three of the young ladies could not hide their amusement, and our passenger standing right there in front of them! I stepped forward, put my hand firmly on the desk, and said "Look, a peanut allergy's reaction could shut (our passenger's) body down completely! They're all ready for her on board, let's just get this done and get her on her way!"

Well, the two onlookers walked away, our passenger smiled, and the gate agent at the computer gave our passenger her boarding pass. Then, I spent the next couple of days tracking all three of the young ladies down so that I could apologize to all of them for talking to them that way.
 
Heinkel
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:26 pm

kalvado wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

The way to prevent peanut allergies is to feed peanut containing foods to infants. Peanut allergies are uncommon in countries that have lots of peanuts in their diet.


Are you a MD specialized in allergies? I have a serious allergie, in this case urticaria with a reaction to protein from the milk of cows. The specialist treating my allergie, explained to me, that to much cow milk as a small child would be the reason I developed this allergie. I was diagnosed at the age of 12 and the reaction to cow milk protein is less today than then, because of me not consuming products with cow milk protein.

Anyway one should distinguish between a nut allergy and a peanut allergy. Peanuts are not related to nuts, they are legume related rather to beans and peas.

There is no question, that an airplane is a rather small enclosed environment, with the air not being Тоseparate between different compartments.

I do not pretend to know how serious a nut or peanut allergy can be, but there is also no question about, that there are people dying because of an allergic reaction.

If the resolution is, that on one flight the passengers can not consume peanuts or nuts, why this aggressive reaction here on this forum to that suggestion?
Can people not live through a flight without nuts?

As far as I can tell, sizeable amount of allergen has to get to mucus membrane to cause a problem. Not odor, not dust from processed nuts.
Looks like biggest concern is pieces left over from previous flights, stuck to hand and then getting into a mouth - hence wiping surfaces is recommended.
That is the proper resolution.
An extra layer of protection - seemingly excessive, but not ridiculously excessive - is to ask people in immediate vicinity - like one row ahead and behind -not to eat peanuts.
Anything beyond that seem to be not allergy but mental health issue.


OK, lets come to facts. Are there any official statistics (hard data please, no hearsay), how many people have died and how many people got an alergic shock, because they were exposed to nuts/peanuts dust or anything elese related to nuts/peanuts or any other alergen on a commercial flight?

Is there a lemma on Wikipedia or is there anyone, who can tell, if that risk on a commercial flight really exists and fatalities or injuries have happened?

Eager to learn.
 
kalvado
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:46 pm

Heinkel wrote:
kalvado wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

Are you a MD specialized in allergies? I have a serious allergie, in this case urticaria with a reaction to protein from the milk of cows. The specialist treating my allergie, explained to me, that to much cow milk as a small child would be the reason I developed this allergie. I was diagnosed at the age of 12 and the reaction to cow milk protein is less today than then, because of me not consuming products with cow milk protein.

Anyway one should distinguish between a nut allergy and a peanut allergy. Peanuts are not related to nuts, they are legume related rather to beans and peas.

There is no question, that an airplane is a rather small enclosed environment, with the air not being Тоseparate between different compartments.

I do not pretend to know how serious a nut or peanut allergy can be, but there is also no question about, that there are people dying because of an allergic reaction.

If the resolution is, that on one flight the passengers can not consume peanuts or nuts, why this aggressive reaction here on this forum to that suggestion?
Can people not live through a flight without nuts?

As far as I can tell, sizeable amount of allergen has to get to mucus membrane to cause a problem. Not odor, not dust from processed nuts.
Looks like biggest concern is pieces left over from previous flights, stuck to hand and then getting into a mouth - hence wiping surfaces is recommended.
That is the proper resolution.
An extra layer of protection - seemingly excessive, but not ridiculously excessive - is to ask people in immediate vicinity - like one row ahead and behind -not to eat peanuts.
Anything beyond that seem to be not allergy but mental health issue.


OK, lets come to facts. Are there any official statistics (hard data please, no hearsay), how many people have died and how many people got an alergic shock, because they were exposed to nuts/peanuts dust or anything elese related to nuts/peanuts or any other alergen on a commercial flight?

Is there a lemma on Wikipedia or is there anyone, who can tell, if that risk on a commercial flight really exists and fatalities or injuries have happened?

Eager to learn.

Well, there are some self-reported cases, many without medical evaluation and clear reasons what exactly caused those. You probably wouldn't be able to get full texts, but abstracts seem good enough:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18681085/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10400859/
This is a pretty strong account - but I wouldn't be surprised if panic attack was at least a contribution factor:
https://snacksafely.com/2020/11/womans- ... n-flights/
 
tonystan
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:55 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
BA definitely handled this better than AA but I can’t really fault AA under these specific circumstances. Peanut allergies are not to be taken lightly but waiting until you get to the check in desk the day of your flight is a bit late for this type of notice. I don’t want to “blame the victim” but for an issue as serious as this she should have called AA after she booked so they had time to react. By the time she notified AA the plane had likely already been catered.



The thing is the BA procedure is NOT to stop serving nut based items at all. It’s simply to make the PA and ask other customers in the immediate area not to consume nut products. But products can be served elsewhere on the aircraft as long as there is a bulkhead or physical barrier between the cabin serving it and the afflicted passenger. There is also no guarantee that the food provided onboard was not produced near where nut items are handled.

My own experience of all this is I have witnessed unrealistic demands and expectations from people with this affliction. The article itself is unreliable as its a blog, so I feel very biased towards the woman and there is probably a lot more to this story.
 
Seat1F
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:22 pm

Exiled wrote:
As a person with family members that have various allergies I think AA did the right thing.
Ultimately you have to protect yourself. My family members just bring their own food and drinks when flying. Nobody every complained because they are aware of the dangers that might happen due to a simple mistake or miscommunication.


I agree. I'm siding with AA on this one. "Accommodation" for a nut allergy can only go so far. Sadly, everyone expects special treatment and accommodation these days.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:43 pm

eta unknown wrote:
When I was the sales officer at my airline I received a request from a travel agent- her passenger had a nut allergy and wanted no nuts served on board. From memory the pax also had a problem with the pillows. I politely told her to fly another airline.


On the other hand this person actually did the right thing.

If someone eating nuts some distance away from you is a death threat to you, you go out of your way to avoid such a situation arising. She can blame the airline for not wanting to change plans unnoticed (oblivious to the fact she didn't really try to give notice), but the second they said nuts would be served, she should have self removed...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:46 pm

Heinkel wrote:
OK, lets come to facts. Are there any official statistics (hard data please, no hearsay), how many people have died and how many people got an alergic shock, because they were exposed to nuts/peanuts dust or anything elese related to nuts/peanuts or any other alergen on a commercial flight?

Is there a lemma on Wikipedia or is there anyone, who can tell, if that risk on a commercial flight really exists and fatalities or injuries have happened?

Eager to learn.


Not specifically on flights, but the risk of allergic reaction (and a lower risk of fatality) is real.

Assuming a food allergy prevalence rate of 3% (3.9% in those aged 0–19 and 1% for peanut allergy), meta-analysis estimates the incidence rate of fatal food anaphylaxis in a food-allergic person as 1.81 (95% CI 0.94, 3.45; range 0.63, 6.68) per million person-years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4165304/

That's many time the risk of dying in an airplane crash for the hypothetical food-allergic person, and we're still trying to improve the safety of flying.

Of the roughly 3.3 million Americans who have nut allergies, about 150 die from allergy-related causes each year

http://content.time.com/time/health/art ... 0accidents.
 
shankly
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:17 pm

Good job the late, great Herb Kelleher founded Southwest when he did.....Integrity, Guts and Nuts! (60 million bags a year apparently)
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:18 pm

Paging DocLightning! Please chime in.

IIRC, Doc had stated there were zero cases of people with nut allergies having reactions to “dust” or anything airborne- they had to actually come in physical contact for a reaction to take place.

There are, however, plenty of cases of people having a reaction once they’re TOLD there are nuts nearby…

At least this is my recollection of what the esteemed Doc had to say on the subject.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:33 pm

We can discuss endless if food allergies can be deadly, or if dust of a food can lead to such an allergic reaction and so on.

What I can not understand, how it can be impossible for the people on one flight not to eat nuts on that flight.

Do people die from not eating nuts? Do people get sick from not eating nuts? Is the emotional distress with not being allowed to eat nuts so big that people will not be able to recover? How often is an allergic person on a flight you are on?

I have been flying by myself since I was 12 years old. I am now 68 years old. I have been on two flights in all that time where the passengers were asked not to eat nuts or peanuts because a person with a severe allergy was on board. Icelandair will do that for the passenger.

What is actually the problem with not eating nuts on one or two flights in ones life? You will be able to eat nuts on the next flight.
 
planecane
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:41 pm

What if another passenger a few rows away brought nuts on board? The person wouldn't know that someone with an allergy was a few rows away and the person with the allergy wouldn't see the nuts.
 
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:55 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
What I can not understand, how it can be impossible for the people on one flight not to eat nuts on that flight.


With respect, you bring this same point up every time this subject comes around, and each time it’s the same response:

o People with allergies that severe need to carry an Epi-Pen
o It’s not impossible for people to forgo peanuts, but many still want them and you can’t force their behavior to change
o Airlines will make reasonable accommodations but cannot provide an allergen-free environment
 
planecane
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:19 pm

shankly wrote:
Good job the late, great Herb Kelleher founded Southwest when he did.....Integrity, Guts and Nuts! (60 million bags a year apparently)


I was on one of the last flights that Southwest served peanuts on a few years ago. FA even gave me an extra bag!
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:36 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
What I can not understand, how it can be impossible for the people on one flight not to eat nuts on that flight.


With respect, you bring this same point up every time this subject comes around, and each time it’s the same response:

o People with allergies that severe need to carry an Epi-Pen
o It’s not impossible for people to forgo peanuts, but many still want them and you can’t force their behavior to change


You are rationalizing American selfishness. Sure, I can pass a two hour flight without eating peanuts. I routinely go for weeks at a time without eating peanuts. It's the unfortunate issue of having rights but no responsibilities.

See this recent NYT piece on the phenomenon. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/opin ... peech.html

The stand here is even weaker: In the U.S. there is no right for one to consume peanuts on a plane.

Congress passed a law requiring reasonable accommodation. The Dept of Trans. wrote a regulation (CFR = Code of Federal Regulations, for non-Americans following along) where any party (including carriers) could comment seeking changes. The DOT has provided guidance. If carriers don't like the effective CFR, or don't like DOT guidance, they can sue to have it changed. Symmetrically, if the AA passenger believes AA didn't follow the CFR correctly, or that the CFR or DOT guidance are lacking, she can sue, trying to set new precedent for 'reasonable accommodation' onboard planes for flyers with nut allergies.
 
bval
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:40 pm

Heinkel wrote:
OK, lets come to facts. Are there any official statistics (hard data please, no hearsay), how many people have died and how many people got an alergic shock, because they were exposed to nuts/peanuts dust or anything elese related to nuts/peanuts or any other alergen on a commercial flight?


I linked to this earlier in the thread but here it is again:
https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resourc ... air-travel
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:43 pm

What I can not understand, how it can be impossible for the people on one flight not to eat nuts on that flight.

Do people die from not eating nuts? Do people get sick from not eating nuts? Is the emotional distress with not being allowed to eat nuts so big that people will not be able to recover? How often is an allergic person on a flight you are on?


I totally understand your point. However, people do buy snacks to eat on their flights and do plan on eating them. Think about it like this - you've bought an economy ticket on a longhaul flight that doesn't have meal service, especially true in today's Covid World. Even some shorter haul flights might not have meals. You're going to pretty much have to feed yourself, so you buy a ton of snacks and are ready to feed at the trough. Then, after you board you're told or asked to not eat, and you're hungry. Its a 6+ hour flight, you're tired, even more hungry, and now you're getting hangry, to boot. You have a fussy child who is hungry, and you brought some nice, healthy nut and granola type bars for them to eat, but now they can't, and we all know how much fun traveling with cranky small children can be. So what does an airline do? Does an airline trump everyones' comfort and hunger pangs for one passenger?

Its easy to say that its not, "impossible for the people on one flight not to eat nuts on that flight," but the reality is that it may not be the case. And, as I and others have stated up-thread, had the passenger in this instance given proper warning about her allergic condition and AA had chosen to make appropriate accommodations ahead of time, most or all of us would feel very differently. I've had nut allergic students in my classroom so I'm well aware of the dangers. I had one have a reaction after I enjoyed a candy bar with nuts in it in class - his parents had never informed the school of his allergy. After that, I banned all nut foods from my classroom while he was a student. However, that's a far easier task than policing an entire airplane, arranging different catering and meal services, etc.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:45 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
What I can not understand, how it can be impossible for the people on one flight not to eat nuts on that flight.


With respect, you bring this same point up every time this subject comes around, and each time it’s the same response:

o People with allergies that severe need to carry an Epi-Pen
o It’s not impossible for people to forgo peanuts, but many still want them and you can’t force their behavior to change
o Airlines will make reasonable accommodations but cannot provide an allergen-free environment


That is exactly the question, what is a reasonable accommodation. I find it a very reasonable accommodation to not eat nuts on one certain flight.

You of course find it always reasonable whatever an airline does.

In this case BA seems to have been able to accommodate the women, while AA did not.

Perhaps Europeans are more accommodating than North Americans.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 386
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:48 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
What I can not understand, how it can be impossible for the people on one flight not to eat nuts on that flight.


With respect, you bring this same point up every time this subject comes around, and each time it’s the same response:

o People with allergies that severe need to carry an Epi-Pen
o It’s not impossible for people to forgo peanuts, but many still want them and you can’t force their behavior to change
o Airlines will make reasonable accommodations but cannot provide an allergen-free environment


Also, airplanes are covered in remnants of nuts and the quick vacuum and wipe down isn’t going to remove that.
 
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:50 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
You are rationalizing American selfishness. Sure, I can pass a two hour flight without eating peanuts. I routinely go for weeks at a time without eating peanuts. It's the unfortunate issue of having rights but no responsibilities.


Oh come on, stop. That's a BS argument and you know it. As I said earlier, sure, people can go without peanuts! Happens all the time. But this is no different than the people who get on a plane with someone who has a pet in the carrier under the seat and saying they're allergic, and their solution, naturally, is THEY need to be moved to accommodate their allergy.

Nope, if you have the problem, it's yours to deal with and we'll put you in another seat or even another flight, but you do not get to impose your will on others just because YOU have a problem.

Generally speaking, people are considerate of one another, and if told, "Hey, we've got someone who's allergic to peanuts, and they're in 16A - can you guys in rows 15 through 17 just not eat any peanuts?" you'll likely get affirmative responses from everyone. But it's those who take it to extremes - on both sides - that need to STFU already. The woman in this article was the one of those extremes, and those who adamantly refuse to go without nuts are on the other extreme end.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:02 pm

bval wrote:
I linked to this earlier in the thread but here it is again:
https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resourc ... air-travel

Based on this study, a reasonable accommodation would be no nuts within the adjacent seats.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 977
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Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:07 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
The DOT has provided guidance.

What is it? Rows or the whole aircraft? Isn't that the crux of this case? Was the woman or AA correctly knowing the guidance?

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