Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
maddogjt8d
Topic Author
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:37 pm

Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:24 pm

Ok, I really can't make out the real story on this one but as an allergy parent myself I am livid at the treatment of this passenger and the response from the American Airlines inflight crew. This just shows AA's complete disdain for their customers and how far they have fallen as a customer-focused carrier. After all, wouldn't their contractual obligation be more aligned with keeping their passengers alive than serving nuts on a flight? What does A.net have to say about this?

https://liveandletsfly.com/nut-allergy-american-airlines/
 
santi319
Posts: 1463
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:46 pm

She was in economy and they were serving nuts in first class….
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15817
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:49 pm

santi319 wrote:
She was in economy and they were serving nuts in first class….


This. I'm a food allergy parent too and am pretty sensitive on these things, but the chances of anything airborne migrating from F or J in flight are essentially nil given how air circulation works in flight.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 3390
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:00 pm

When I was the sales officer at my airline I received a request from a travel agent- her passenger had a nut allergy and wanted no nuts served on board. From memory the pax also had a problem with the pillows. I politely told her to fly another airline.
 
Laidback4
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:01 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:00 pm

What did she expect? That everyone else should not consume nuts just because she has an allergy? She gets to inconvenience everyone else, because lets be frank, it's all about her, right? Removing her from the flight was the correct response IMO.
 
joeycapps
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:24 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:01 pm

I don't have a food allergy and neither does my son, so I am curious as to what would be considered 'sterile' enough for safe travels. Moreso, I'm curious as to how many people with a peanut allergy fly regularly and aren't affected - especially with the muzzle mandate. No, I'm not doubting the validity of these concerns, but just trying to understand them. I know WN used to restrict peanut service when they were told there was a pax on board with an allergy, but I'll echo Cubsrule's sentiment that on an aircraft, with these levels of filtration and air circulation, I find it a reach for much to reach econ from first. Just my 2c.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 3206
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:08 pm

I usually have sympathy for those with allergies, but with an all-out anaphylactic shock simply from inhaling peanut protein particles already being relatively rare (https://healthtalk.unchealthcare.org/ca ... -reaction/), and the fact that she was seated several feet away in a completely different class of service, I find it hard to take her side.

Not only that, but she is supposed to be wearing a mask during the flight.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:09 pm

This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:12 pm

As far as I understand, issue is with people being a bit paranoic - which I can understand given possible consequences.
But there is limited actual danger for remote exposure. Someone in a seat next to allergic person is legitimate, even if borderline only. Few rows away shouldn't be an issue
https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resourc ... air-travel
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15817
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:12 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.


Right. The problem is that it's not at all clear that having her sitting a long way from the nuts being served wasn't a sufficient accommodation.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:12 pm

BA definitely handled this better than AA but I can’t really fault AA under these specific circumstances. Peanut allergies are not to be taken lightly but waiting until you get to the check in desk the day of your flight is a bit late for this type of notice. I don’t want to “blame the victim” but for an issue as serious as this she should have called AA after she booked so they had time to react. By the time she notified AA the plane had likely already been catered.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 16041
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.


Airlines cannot, however, guarantee an allergen-free flight. That’s impossible, and yes, I’ve had guests in the past who have insisted we pull the aircraft from service the night before their flight, fumigate and sanitize it, make nut-free announcements to all other passengers, and then SEARCH EVERYONE AS THEY BOARD to ensure they didn’t have any nuts or products containing nuts on them.

As was stated earlier, if those are the expectations to earn your business, I’m afraid we and every other airline are going to disappoint you.
Last edited by EA CO AS on Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:19 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.


Airlines cannot, however, guarantee an allergen-free flight. That’s impossible, and yes, I’ve had guests in the past who have insisted we pull the aircraft from service the night before their flight, fumigate and sanitize it, make nut-free announcements to all other passengers, and then SEARCH EVERYONE AS THEY BOARD to ensure they didn’t have any nuts or products containing nuts on them.

As was stated earlier, those are the expectations to earn your business, I’m afraid we and every other airline are going to disappoint you.

To me it is more about perceived hazard vs actual hazard. Wiping immediate seating area to avoid nut crumbs may be more efficient that bothering with nut service multiple rows away. But that would require personal effort instead of demanding extra service
 
DenverTed
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:30 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.

Who determines what the accommodation is? What accommodation must restaurants or grocery stores make when said person enters?
This is like in Iowa where the ADA is used to require masks around compromised people. ADA is a national law, so we'll see how they sort out these two laws, and who determines how far the rules will extend to protect a protected class of people.
 
DenverTed
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:35 pm

Does the airport have to be nut free if a nut allergy person enters? Or fragrance free?
 
NASBWI
Posts: 1001
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:42 pm

DenverTed wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.

Who determines what the accommodation is? What accommodation must restaurants or grocery stores make when said person enters?
This is like in Iowa where the ADA is used to require masks around compromised people. ADA is a national law, so we'll see how they sort out these two laws, and who determines how far the rules will extend to protect a protected class of people.


Agreed, DenverTed: most airlines *do* make accommodations for customers with allergies. Those accommodations are satisfactory to the ADA, even if not so for the customer. At the airline for which I fly, our accommodation is to make a buffer zone for the allergic customer, and personally brief their row, as well as the row in front and behind them. No announcements are to be made. Further, in our Core experience, nuts are no longer served. If a customer finds that to be insufficient, we can offer to reseat them - or offer other alternatives (perhaps a flight at a later time, or a refund).

Having read the article, it wouldn’t surprise me that the couple was removed not for the allergy, but perhaps their behavior once they realized that the crew wouldn’t accommodate their requests. Perhaps they were acting in a threatening or otherwise belittling manner. Most of us (as cabin crew) don’t take removal of a customer lightly. It involves a lot of paperwork lol.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2288
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:49 pm

I feel like this is one of those stories where the whole incident is from one point of view and that the truth is somewhere in between.
 
ozark1
Posts: 958
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:58 pm

What a typical anti-airline post. I retired a few years ago and we switched from nuts to pretzels or some other kind of beverage accompaniment decades ago. We probably stopped due to this allergy problem. But now, the ONLY mixed nuts are in F/C or B/C. Ms Sophie was flying in economy. What is really hilarious and absurd is her sense of entitlement. Did she call ahead and inform them about the problem? No, She says she forgot to check a box or something on some kind of form. Then she chose to be sure that every single front line employee group was mentioned in her diatribe. The statement from the flight attendant is a joke.,She made it sound like they were going to force feed the nuts to her.What does a person do who has special needs , like a pet, or a wheelchair or a nut allergy do? THEY CALL WEEKS IN ADVANCE. THEY CONSULT WITH AN ALLERGY DOCTOR. THEY ENSURE THEY HAVE APPROVED MEDICATION. Was she telling the flight attendant that the entire plane could not have nuts? What if the parents brought some from home? Im not saying that a nut allergy isn’t serious, but there are ways to go about solving the issue without going into a tirade.
 
Homadreaming86
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:10 pm

Many passengers require medical clearance note or are simply not qualified to fly due to a disability or health condition. Even if nuts were pulled off the menu, who is to say that the 200+ other individuals onboard wouldn’t have brought some snacks containing allergens onboard. What happens when the person next to her pops open a pack of mixed nuts half way across the Atlantic and she goes into dangerous shock? Who will be held liable if she parishes or is severely injured?

Simply put, the young lady was at an elevated risk because of her unfortunate level of allergies which probably makes commercial flying near impossible I really feel for her but we are all given challenges in life and some more than others and this one is just a tough one. AA or it’s flight crew simply can not make such promises when you are inside a capsule gliding thousands of feet above ground with hundreds of other people, their luggage, food and more…
 
bwphoto
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:45 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:25 pm

I recently flew from SLC to BOS on DL. An announcement was made that a passenger had a nut allergy and to please not eat food brought on board if it had peanuts in it. The served snacks had already been limited to nut-free items, so I assumed this had been pre-arranged.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11607
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:40 pm

DenverTed wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.

Who determines what the accommodation is? What accommodation must restaurants or grocery stores make when said person enters?
This is like in Iowa where the ADA is used to require masks around compromised people. ADA is a national law, so we'll see how they sort out these two laws, and who determines how far the rules will extend to protect a protected class of people.


This isn't an ADA issue. Air carrier accommodation is set by the Air Carrier Access Act. The DOT has issued guidance as to necessary and appropriate accommodation. Now AA's lawyers will have to get into it.
 
User avatar
GlobalAirways
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:03 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:41 pm

Sounds like American handled the situation and rebooked her on another flight and apologized. She'll probably going to sue to try and make some money.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 1066
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:43 pm

I am very sorry that the lady has a nut allergy. However, if she has a serious allergy like that, then the time to handle things would have been when she booked her ticket - call AA and see if they could accommodate her. And, maybe call again to verify that they could a few days before the flight as organizations do sometimes make mistakes and forget promises. If AA could accommodate her, then fly! If not, then book on another airline that can.

As a public school teacher, I have had many students with nut and other allergies. We do our best to accommodate them, but in the end we can't accommodate everyone and every situation. We do our best to take care of the broader swath of our population, but even we have gaps in service. I imagine that airlines are the same. As an aside, I met a gent awhile back who had a serious nut allergy but was able to undergo some form of anti-allergy training or procedure and became an F-14 pilot. That's obviously not an option for everyone, but from in the hospital from a Snicker's bar to naval aviator is pretty good!
 
User avatar
United787
Posts: 3050
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 12:20 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:09 pm

I am a parent of someone with a peanut allergy (and formerly tree nuts and eggs also). Granted his allergy is not 'severe' per se, most people who have an allergy have some level of risk of an anaphylactic shock, including my son. But, I have always wondered about the people that fear exposure from airborne peanut 'dust' and is that a real risk. I don't know the answer to that question but I can tell you that our allergist said NOT to remove peanuts from our home because casual exposure is good for overcoming the allergy. In fact, immunotherapy is now being used too treat peanut allergies essentially uses exposure to desensitize patients over a period of time. We eat peanuts and peanut products in the vicinity of my son but we are careful.

Keeping on topic, anyone with an allergy expecting an entire airplane full of passengers to not eat a certain food because you have an allergy to it is being completely unrealistic. If your doctor says that your sensitivity is that severe than you need to: a) find another method of travel; b) mitigate your risks through other methods (N95 mask etc.); or c) don't travel at all.

Note: I am NOT a doctor, please take my thoughts above as purely opinions...
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1573
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:36 pm

My youngest niece has (had) a severe peanut allergy, and as such, my sister (her mother) wouldn't let her fly as a child, out of an abundance of caution.

As she got older, her doctor (and her favorite uncle) informed her of the ventilation system on airplanes, and how low the risk was/is. The entire family made it to and from Hawaii without any problems, although I don't know if my sister asked for a "buffer row".

My niece has been doing a once-a-month allergy specialist thing, which has vastly reduced her reactions. As a matter of fact, she now eats 3-4 peanut M&M's so her body continues to learn to deal with legumes properly.

Wasn't there a story a while back of a woman who, upon entering the plane, demanded loudly to every single passenger that NO ONE consume any nuts whatsoever? Given how many products contain ingredients that "may have come into contact with one or more of the following allergens", I don't think this is a realistic request anymore.
 
STLflyer
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:36 pm

What was her plan if a passenger a few rows back opened a bag of peanuts they brought on the plane? Sure, AA can opt to not serve them, but shall we have TSA confiscate anything with peanuts along with bottles of water and toothpaste?

Maybe if your allergy is that bad, it's best to drive rather than put your life at risk because another passenger is eating a Snickers bar.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 955
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:54 pm

eta unknown wrote:
When I was the sales officer at my airline I received a request from a travel agent- her passenger had a nut allergy and wanted no nuts served on board. From memory the pax also had a problem with the pillows. I politely told her to fly another airline.

Did the same. 'Buy your own airliner' was my polite answer.
 
TangoandCash
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:52 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:00 pm

STLflyer wrote:
What was her plan if a passenger a few rows back opened a bag of peanuts they brought on the plane? Sure, AA can opt to not serve them, but shall we have TSA confiscate anything with peanuts along with bottles of water and toothpaste?

Maybe if your allergy is that bad, it's best to drive rather than put your life at risk because another passenger is eating a Snickers bar.


That is always my question when a severe allergy story like this comes up. Regardless of the facts/truth of this particular incident, how to people who legitimately have allergies that severe function in society? If your allergy is so severe that nuts being served up front will affect you, how do you get through the airport, past the restaurants and shops serving things like peanut butter cookies, brownies with nuts in/on them, passengers in the waiting area eating a Snickers, etc.?
 
DenverTed
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:02 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DenverTed wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
This will be provocative:

14 CFR § 382.5. DOT has openly recognized allergies to be a disability covered by the ACAA. This means that airlines must make accommodations for passengers with allergies so that they can fly as safely on planes as any other passenger.

Who determines what the accommodation is? What accommodation must restaurants or grocery stores make when said person enters?
This is like in Iowa where the ADA is used to require masks around compromised people. ADA is a national law, so we'll see how they sort out these two laws, and who determines how far the rules will extend to protect a protected class of people.


This isn't an ADA issue. Air carrier accommodation is set by the Air Carrier Access Act. The DOT has issued guidance as to necessary and appropriate accommodation. Now AA's lawyers will have to get into it.

What is the guidance? I found this so far,
"This order does not direct American to provide a peanut
-restricted area or to
restrict the distribution of peanuts.
Rather, it recognizes that passengers with severe allergies to various types of nuts may need additional time to
ensure that their own seating area is free from allergens. "
 
User avatar
fanoftristars
Posts: 1746
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:15 pm

I was on a Delta flight some years ago from EWR-SLC. A woman demanded all nuts be removed from the flight before departure. As we were on a 757 and they were ready to shut the door, the Captain became involved to let the woman know that although they won't serve any nuts on the flight, there wasn't time to have all the nuts removed. She threw a tantrum at 2L insisting that she was told all nuts would be removed and they must be removed now!

I'll never forget the captains response, "Ma'am, you have two options. Sit down so we can push back and no nuts will be served, or depart the aircraft now." She replied, "I'm not sitting down until you remove all nuts from this plane!" The captain told her that was not one of her options and asked the gate agent to call the airport police to have her removed. She decided to sit down right away. No nuts were served. She made it 4hr 30min without incident, though she was a total jerk to all flight crew, yelling about the options for dinner, the amount of ice in her drink, the wait to use the lavatory, etc. I was across the isle from her and couldn't believe her behavior. The FA in first class was crying in the galley from having to deal with her. Airline employees should not have to put up with this behavior as a part of "accommodation".
Last edited by fanoftristars on Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:17 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
santi319 wrote:
She was in economy and they were serving nuts in first class….


This. I'm a food allergy parent too and am pretty sensitive on these things, but the chances of anything airborne migrating from F or J in flight are essentially nil given how air circulation works in flight.


But not impossible.
 
toobz
Posts: 927
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:33 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:22 pm

If you are that concerned take the QE2
Last edited by toobz on Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 3206
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:22 pm

What I find interesting with the peanut/tree-nut allergy issue onboard is that there is quite a bit of data out there that states people with shellfish/crustacea allergies are somewhat susceptible to an anaphylactic reaction from airborne exposure but I have yet to hear any issue with shellfish being served on board, and AA also serves shrimp in the premium cabins.
Vicenza wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
santi319 wrote:
She was in economy and they were serving nuts in first class….


This. I'm a food allergy parent too and am pretty sensitive on these things, but the chances of anything airborne migrating from F or J in flight are essentially nil given how air circulation works in flight.


But not impossible.

What's actually quite likely is a scenario in which someone with an allergy smells peanuts and begins to have an anxiety attack, and mistakes the nausea/palpations/shortness of breath for actual anaphylactic shock.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:29 pm

maddogjt8d wrote:
Ok, I really can't make out the real story on this one but as an allergy parent myself I am livid at the treatment of this passenger and the response from the American Airlines inflight crew. This just shows AA's complete disdain for their customers and how far they have fallen as a customer-focused carrier. After all, wouldn't their contractual obligation be more aligned with keeping their passengers alive than serving nuts on a flight? What does A.net have to say about this?

https://liveandletsfly.com/nut-allergy-american-airlines/


She should refrain from ingesting nuts or touching her mouth, nose, or eyes after touching a contaminated surface. An anaphylactic reaction is caused by ingestion of nut proteins, which generally are undetectable within seconds in the immediate vicinity of the person consuming, shelling, or cooking with said nuts.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:29 pm

Vicenza wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
santi319 wrote:
She was in economy and they were serving nuts in first class….


This. I'm a food allergy parent too and am pretty sensitive on these things, but the chances of anything airborne migrating from F or J in flight are essentially nil given how air circulation works in flight.


But not impossible.

Probability of a plane falling out of the sky is not zero as well.
Looks like it would take more than dust. I linked a study somewhere upthread - smell or skin contact do not cause problems. It takes sizeable amount - basically crumbs - to cause effect.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1926
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:31 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
santi319 wrote:
She was in economy and they were serving nuts in first class….


This. I'm a food allergy parent too and am pretty sensitive on these things, but the chances of anything airborne migrating from F or J in flight are essentially nil given how air circulation works in flight.

I know nothing about food allergies or transmission,

In the 00's, a client making HEPA filters for commercial aircraft gave us a tour of their research and production facilities.

They advised, the better the filter, the greater the back pressure, and pressure increases almost from the moment of installation (rate of increase depends on local and other factors).

To maintain air circulation rates, each filter unit has a bypass valve (or valves). As the filter becomes contaminated, the valves progressively open, until no air is routed through that filter (just like in a vehicle engine oil filter).

There are multiple filter units in every section of an aircraft.

When asked how often they should be replaced, our guide said more often than they are. A balance between crew and passenger safety, versus cost and time to fit.

Removal is a skill, requiring a sleeve or canister to ensure no cabin contamination from the old filter.

That was pre-COVID.

After passengers are confirmed as having COVID (let alone peanuts) on a flight, are the filters replaced as part of a deep clean?
 
bval
Posts: 134
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:30 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:34 pm

I am not a medical professional but I can read. The science says there's no reason to make accomodations for peanut allergy sufferers. They are perfectly safe in an airplane cabin and almost anywhere else. A fine example of accommodating feelings where science knows better.

If passengers insist on accomodations for peanut allergies with no evidence to support it, the airlines should say no and educate travelers.

For years we put up with misbehaving "emotional support animals" (not real service dogs, which are fine) on flights, and the industry finally took a stand against it. This should be treated no differently.
 
bennett123
Posts: 11525
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:35 pm

Not clear which row she was in.

Would asking if someone down the back would swap have helped?
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 309
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:36 pm

Who doesn’t like a peanut ?
 
sgbroimp
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:35 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:36 pm

eta unknown wrote:
When I was the sales officer at my airline I received a request from a travel agent- her passenger had a nut allergy and wanted no nuts served on board. From memory the pax also had a problem with the pillows. I politely told her to fly another airline.


I might have suggested a kite! ;)
 
STLflyer
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:08 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:45 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
I was on a Delta flight some years ago from EWR-SLC. A woman demanded all nuts be removed from the flight before departure. As we were on a 757 and they were ready to shut the door, the Captain became involved to let the woman know that although they won't serve any nuts on the flight, there wasn't time to have all the nuts removed. She threw a tantrum at 2L insisting that she was told all nuts would be removed and they must be removed now!

I'll never forget the captains response, "Ma'am, you have two options. Sit down so we can push back and no nuts will be served, or depart the aircraft now." She replied, "I'm not sitting down until you remove all nuts from this plane!" The captain told her that was not one of her options and asked the gate agent to call the airport police to have her removed. She decided to sit down right away. No nuts were served. She made it 4hr 30min without incident, though she was a total jerk to all flight crew, yelling about the options for dinner, the amount of ice in her drink, the wait to use the lavatory, etc. I was across the isle from her and couldn't believe her behavior. The FA in first class was crying in the galley from having to deal with her. Airline employees should not have to put up with this behavior as a part of "accommodation".


Was she also expecting them to go through and search everyone's carryon to make sure there weren't any nuts?

Even if they confiscated everyone's nuts and removed them all from the plane, there'd still be one nut left on board.
 
Heinkel
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:53 pm

toobz wrote:
If you are that concerned take the QE2


Just for your information: QE2 is no longer in service since 2008.

Queen Mary 2 does the job now.

And I'm absolutely sure, that they serve nuts and prodcuts containing nuts on Queen Mary 2 and on any cruise ship.
Last edited by Heinkel on Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Heinkel
Posts: 390
Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:04 pm

bval wrote:
I am not a medical professional but I can read. The science says there's no reason to make accomodations for peanut allergy sufferers. They are perfectly safe in an airplane cabin and almost anywhere else. A fine example of accommodating feelings where science knows better.

If passengers insist on accomodations for peanut allergies with no evidence to support it, the airlines should say no and educate travelers.

For years we put up with misbehaving "emotional support animals" (not real service dogs, which are fine) on flights, and the industry finally took a stand against it. This should be treated no differently.


Looks like this "peanut allergy problem" like the "emotional support animal problem" only occurs in the USA or with passengers from the USA. Are there reports from other countries and continents about problems related to passengers with peanuts allegies in air travel?

Never heard about this problem in Europe.

As other poster here mentioned before, if these people have such strong alergies, that the slightest trace of (pea)nuts dust can cause an allergic shock, how did they survive the way through the airport's restaurant and lounge area to the gate?

Do these people also ask to stop serving (pea)nuts in the F and J lounges?
 
User avatar
tjwgrr
Posts: 2721
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 4:09 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:10 pm

So the required masks stop the COVID virus, but not nut dust? SMH
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 15817
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:16 pm

smartplane wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
santi319 wrote:
She was in economy and they were serving nuts in first class….


This. I'm a food allergy parent too and am pretty sensitive on these things, but the chances of anything airborne migrating from F or J in flight are essentially nil given how air circulation works in flight.

I know nothing about food allergies or transmission,

In the 00's, a client making HEPA filters for commercial aircraft gave us a tour of their research and production facilities.

They advised, the better the filter, the greater the back pressure, and pressure increases almost from the moment of installation (rate of increase depends on local and other factors).

To maintain air circulation rates, each filter unit has a bypass valve (or valves). As the filter becomes contaminated, the valves progressively open, until no air is routed through that filter (just like in a vehicle engine oil filter).

There are multiple filter units in every section of an aircraft.

When asked how often they should be replaced, our guide said more often than they are. A balance between crew and passenger safety, versus cost and time to fit.

Removal is a skill, requiring a sleeve or canister to ensure no cabin contamination from the old filter.

That was pre-COVID.

After passengers are confirmed as having COVID (let alone peanuts) on a flight, are the filters replaced as part of a deep clean?


"Migrating" was maybe imprecise language. The question we need to answer is not whether some random particle might blow past a person at a relatively high rate. That's possible if the filters are not up to snuff. The question is whether that random blowby will cause any sort of allergic response (peanuts) or infection (COVID/other disease). And the answer to that question is almost certainly no.
 
User avatar
NYPECO
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:55 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:54 pm

fanoftristars wrote:
I was on a Delta flight some years ago from EWR-SLC. A woman demanded all nuts be removed from the flight before departure. As we were on a 757 and they were ready to shut the door, the Captain became involved to let the woman know that although they won't serve any nuts on the flight, there wasn't time to have all the nuts removed. She threw a tantrum at 2L insisting that she was told all nuts would be removed and they must be removed now!

I'll never forget the captains response, "Ma'am, you have two options. Sit down so we can push back and no nuts will be served, or depart the aircraft now." She replied, "I'm not sitting down until you remove all nuts from this plane!" The captain told her that was not one of her options and asked the gate agent to call the airport police to have her removed. She decided to sit down right away. No nuts were served. She made it 4hr 30min without incident, though she was a total jerk to all flight crew, yelling about the options for dinner, the amount of ice in her drink, the wait to use the lavatory, etc. I was across the isle from her and couldn't believe her behavior. The FA in first class was crying in the galley from having to deal with her. Airline employees should not have to put up with this behavior as a part of "accommodation".


It sounds like the real problem was that passenger being unruly, not that they had a peanut allergy. The passenger on the AA flight from the article was not disruptive so I don't see what that has to do with the story? Nothing in the article indicates the AA crew had to deal with anything like that.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3790
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:22 pm

Heinkel wrote:
bval wrote:
I am not a medical professional but I can read. The science says there's no reason to make accomodations for peanut allergy sufferers. They are perfectly safe in an airplane cabin and almost anywhere else. A fine example of accommodating feelings where science knows better.

If passengers insist on accomodations for peanut allergies with no evidence to support it, the airlines should say no and educate travelers.

For years we put up with misbehaving "emotional support animals" (not real service dogs, which are fine) on flights, and the industry finally took a stand against it. This should be treated no differently.


Looks like this "peanut allergy problem" like the "emotional support animal problem" only occurs in the USA or with passengers from the USA. Are there reports from other countries and continents about problems related to passengers with peanuts allegies in air travel?

Never heard about this problem in Europe.

As other poster here mentioned before, if these people have such strong alergies, that the slightest trace of (pea)nuts dust can cause an allergic shock, how did they survive the way through the airport's restaurant and lounge area to the gate?

Do these people also ask to stop serving (pea)nuts in the F and J lounges?

Just first link from Google search:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-17727181
and a policy:
https://www.ryanair.com/lv/en/useful-in ... -still-fly
 
User avatar
kanban
Posts: 4115
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:16 pm

She should have brought her own full haz-mat suit and been seated in the furthest aft restroom. Second best is airlines find a way to atmospherically isolate a row of seats.. just like an isolation ward.
 
Flflyer83
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:19 pm

maddogjt8d wrote:
Ok, I really can't make out the real story on this one but as an allergy parent myself I am livid at the treatment of this passenger and the response from the American Airlines inflight crew. This just shows AA's complete disdain for their customers and how far they have fallen as a customer-focused carrier. After all, wouldn't their contractual obligation be more aligned with keeping their passengers alive than serving nuts on a flight? What does A.net have to say about this?

https://liveandletsfly.com/nut-allergy-american-airlines/


Looks like a majority of a.net says one persons allergy and over-reaction isn’t the airlines fault. The passengers demands were not reasonable, so… there’s that.
 
SaintBroseph
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:38 am

Re: Women Removed from AA Flight over Nut Allergy

Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:09 am

kalvado wrote:
Heinkel wrote:
bval wrote:
I am not a medical professional but I can read. The science says there's no reason to make accomodations for peanut allergy sufferers. They are perfectly safe in an airplane cabin and almost anywhere else. A fine example of accommodating feelings where science knows better.

If passengers insist on accomodations for peanut allergies with no evidence to support it, the airlines should say no and educate travelers.

For years we put up with misbehaving "emotional support animals" (not real service dogs, which are fine) on flights, and the industry finally took a stand against it. This should be treated no differently.


Looks like this "peanut allergy problem" like the "emotional support animal problem" only occurs in the USA or with passengers from the USA. Are there reports from other countries and continents about problems related to passengers with peanuts allegies in air travel?

Never heard about this problem in Europe.

As other poster here mentioned before, if these people have such strong alergies, that the slightest trace of (pea)nuts dust can cause an allergic shock, how did they survive the way through the airport's restaurant and lounge area to the gate?

Do these people also ask to stop serving (pea)nuts in the F and J lounges?

Just first link from Google search:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-17727181
and a policy:
https://www.ryanair.com/lv/en/useful-in ... -still-fly

Somehow she is annoyed because the flight attendant isn't aware but isn't aware enough to know that this is a public place and nuts will be like everywhere? Gotta commend the flight attendants. I don't think I could smile and bow to such snooty people.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AIR MALTA, ASFlyer, Baidu [Spider], Carrera125, dcajet, ERJ170, Google [Bot], gregn21, LAX772LR, MikeEm57, Prost, qf789, richcandy, The777Man, UPlog and 161 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos