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Aaron747
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Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:26 pm

For anyone who wants a little lift to their day, this is a fantastic ATC capture from Watsonville, CA the other day, where a student has a stuck throttle emergency and everyone jumps on CTAF to help out.

The pilot involved is the first comment down attached to the video.

https://youtu.be/nrsJ1lhQ9Pc
 
wingman
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:58 pm

That made my day. Thanks for sharing it.
 
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zeke
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:32 pm

It was a good outcome, having that time available to compose himself and work out a plan really helped with the execution. Nice job.
 
d8s
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:24 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
For anyone who wants a little lift to their day, this is a fantastic ATC capture from Watsonville, CA the other day, where a student has a stuck throttle emergency and everyone jumps on CTAF to help out.

The pilot involved is the first comment down attached to the video.

https://youtu.be/nrsJ1lhQ9Pc


Awesome share, thanks! The student pilot sounds like calm and collected.
 
adipasqu
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:20 pm

Theoretical question for the CFI's and other professional pilots out there: The student pilots decision to land at WVI obviously worked out, so kudos to the pilot and everyone who helped him get down. I am not trying to second guess anyone, but I am curious about one option that appeared to not come up in the tapes but in the comments section for my own PPL education. At what point would one choose to head for SJC 28 miles away for the 11,000' ft of concrete available (max LDA 8831' on 12L vs 4501' on 20 at WVI) for the added benefit of increased error margin? It appeared he had plenty of fuel (13 gal in a C152) and had no issues with climbing and maintaining altitude. Yes, there was terrain to go over to get to SJC and he may have been unfamiliar with landing there, but I am curious if anyone has any thoughts about diverting to SJC in this instance especially with ARFF on-site.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:27 pm

adipasqu wrote:
Theoretical question for the CFI's and other professional pilots out there: The student pilots decision to land at WVI obviously worked out, so kudos to the pilot and everyone who helped him get down. I am not trying to second guess anyone, but I am curious about one option that appeared to not come up in the tapes but in the comments section for my own PPL education. At what point would one choose to head for SJC 28 miles away for the 11,000' ft of concrete available (max LDA 8831' on 12L vs 4501' on 20 at WVI) for the added benefit of increased error margin? It appeared he had plenty of fuel (13 gal in a C152) and had no issues with climbing and maintaining altitude. Yes, there was terrain to go over to get to SJC and he may have been unfamiliar with landing there, but I am curious if anyone has any thoughts about diverting to SJC in this instance especially with ARFF on-site.

Guy is a student. Keep him in a familiar area, don't add on the stress of dealing with NorCal Approach, frequency changes, jet departures, etc.

Not familiar with NorCal procedures, but he had 4,500 ft of runway under him, I would have done a normal pattern, cut the motor about 2/3rds of the way on downwind and bleed the speed. It will come off quick with flaps in, it's not a Lance or a Mooney. Set up for a normal pattern as the speed bleeds off and turn to land after passing the numbers. With 4,500 feet in a 152, you don't have to aim for the numbers, just stay on speed and put it down in the first half.

It's a 152, I have about 30 hours in one, NOTHING happens very fast.
Last edited by FlyingElvii on Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:32 pm

How to land with full throttle stuck: mixture for altitude ;)
 
adipasqu
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:40 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Guy is a student. Keep him in a familiar area, don't add on the stress of dealing with NorCal Approach, frequency changes, jet departures, etc.


I understand all of that in this case and agree. However, lets assume you have experience (a PPL or better) and are familiar with SJC. Does anything change in this situation for you?
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:44 pm

adipasqu wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Guy is a student. Keep him in a familiar area, don't add on the stress of dealing with NorCal Approach, frequency changes, jet departures, etc.


I understand all of that in this case and agree. However, lets assume you have experience (a PPL or better) and are familiar with SJC. Does anything change in this situation for you?


Not really...
It is a 152, after all.
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:49 pm

He was offered 'equipment', as in ARFF i take it, but declined. I think that NORCAL should have sent it anyway if there was time enough, which seems to have been the case. Are there specific procedures stating that the pilot needs to request that?
 
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zeke
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:51 pm

adipasqu wrote:
Theoretical question for the CFI's and other professional pilots out there: The student pilots decision to land at WVI obviously worked out, so kudos to the pilot and everyone who helped him get down. I am not trying to second guess anyone, but I am curious about one option that appeared to not come up in the tapes but in the comments section for my own PPL education. At what point would one choose to head for SJC 28 miles away for the 11,000' ft of concrete available (max LDA 8831' on 12L vs 4501' on 20 at WVI) for the added benefit of increased error margin? It appeared he had plenty of fuel (13 gal in a C152) and had no issues with climbing and maintaining altitude. Yes, there was terrain to go over to get to SJC and he may have been unfamiliar with landing there, but I am curious if anyone has any thoughts about diverting to SJC in this instance especially with ARFF on-site.


It’s good you are thinking that way, absolutely no reason you could not divert to a bigger runway.

He could have flown it down on final with full power and cut the mixture crossing the runway with heaps to spare.

One issue with bigger runways is they also tend to be wider, and students tend to flare very high when they see a wider runway for the first time.
 
adipasqu
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:57 pm

zeke wrote:
One issue with bigger runways is they also tend to be wider, and students tend to flare very high when they see a wider runway for the first time.


In this case, both WVI and SJC are 150 ft wide runways, so not an issue in this case. I am training out of SQL (RWY 12/30 is 2621 x 75 ft) and we do our "large airport" work at SJC, so it will be interesting to experience this when the time comes.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:28 pm

adipasqu wrote:
Theoretical question for the CFI's and other professional pilots out there: The student pilots decision to land at WVI obviously worked out, so kudos to the pilot and everyone who helped him get down. I am not trying to second guess anyone, but I am curious about one option that appeared to not come up in the tapes but in the comments section for my own PPL education. At what point would one choose to head for SJC 28 miles away for the 11,000' ft of concrete available (max LDA 8831' on 12L vs 4501' on 20 at WVI) for the added benefit of increased error margin? It appeared he had plenty of fuel (13 gal in a C152) and had no issues with climbing and maintaining altitude. Yes, there was terrain to go over to get to SJC and he may have been unfamiliar with landing there, but I am curious if anyone has any thoughts about diverting to SJC in this instance especially with ARFF on-site.


I’m getting 46 miles to SJC, although I think it’s driving distance.

Remember, this guy obviously has a malfunction in his throttle control. One of the CFIs on the radio wanted to keep him very close to the airport. There are too many uncertainties here. How do you know the malfunction isn’t going to turn into an engine failure while he’s over the hills halfway to SJC? Now we have a potentially catastrophic condition.
 
adipasqu
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:55 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:

I’m getting 46 miles to SJC, although I think it’s driving distance.

Remember, this guy obviously has a malfunction in his throttle control. One of the CFIs on the radio wanted to keep him very close to the airport. There are too many uncertainties here. How do you know the malfunction isn’t going to turn into an engine failure while he’s over the hills halfway to SJC? Now we have a potentially catastrophic condition.


Yeah, that is driving distance. From Airnav.com, the distance from WVI to the SJC VOR is 27.4 nm.

I agree, the throttle was obviously no bueno and things could have gone from bad to worse. Luckily, runway 20 at WVI was plenty long for him, which makes this a non-issue. He did touchdown mid-field, however, but we don't know how much pavement he had left when he came to a stop. I'm just trying to do the math as a thought exercise...at a smaller airport with half the runway available (like SQL 16.7 nm from SJC without terrain issues over the bay), do you even try this or declare an emergency and go to SJC...or even SFO (8.8 nm from SQL)? I realize there are many variables in this equation and this pilot obviously did a great job all the way around. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes for a what-if scenario for myself.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Tue Feb 15, 2022 12:04 am

Really commendable composure by the student. It could have been really easy to panic.
 
cschleic
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:24 am

adipasqu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I’m getting 46 miles to SJC, although I think it’s driving distance.

Remember, this guy obviously has a malfunction in his throttle control. One of the CFIs on the radio wanted to keep him very close to the airport. There are too many uncertainties here. How do you know the malfunction isn’t going to turn into an engine failure while he’s over the hills halfway to SJC? Now we have a potentially catastrophic condition.


Yeah, that is driving distance. From Airnav.com, the distance from WVI to the SJC VOR is 27.4 nm.

I agree, the throttle was obviously no bueno and things could have gone from bad to worse. Luckily, runway 20 at WVI was plenty long for him, which makes this a non-issue. He did touchdown mid-field, however, but we don't know how much pavement he had left when he came to a stop. I'm just trying to do the math as a thought exercise...at a smaller airport with half the runway available (like SQL 16.7 nm from SJC without terrain issues over the bay), do you even try this or declare an emergency and go to SJC...or even SFO (8.8 nm from SQL)? I realize there are many variables in this equation and this pilot obviously did a great job all the way around. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes for a what-if scenario for myself.


Keeping close to an airport with a perfectly adequate 4,500 ft. runway was the way to go. No need to add additional risk and uncertainty given the unknowns about the engine. If he really needed longer, Salinas is closer than SJC (only 19 miles), has 6,000 ft. and more farmland between the two than going to SJC. Kudos to the student pilot for handling the situation and his confident outlook.

For the question above, I've flown with a friend out of SQL, to Watsonville and around the Bay. Lots of potential terrain, water and building issues in an engine out situation. Not being familiar enough and given its status...would Moffett be an option in an emergency situation?
Last edited by cschleic on Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:31 am

cschleic wrote:
adipasqu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I’m getting 46 miles to SJC, although I think it’s driving distance.

Remember, this guy obviously has a malfunction in his throttle control. One of the CFIs on the radio wanted to keep him very close to the airport. There are too many uncertainties here. How do you know the malfunction isn’t going to turn into an engine failure while he’s over the hills halfway to SJC? Now we have a potentially catastrophic condition.


Yeah, that is driving distance. From Airnav.com, the distance from WVI to the SJC VOR is 27.4 nm.

I agree, the throttle was obviously no bueno and things could have gone from bad to worse. Luckily, runway 20 at WVI was plenty long for him, which makes this a non-issue. He did touchdown mid-field, however, but we don't know how much pavement he had left when he came to a stop. I'm just trying to do the math as a thought exercise...at a smaller airport with half the runway available (like SQL 16.7 nm from SJC without terrain issues over the bay), do you even try this or declare an emergency and go to SJC...or even SFO (8.8 nm from SQL)? I realize there are many variables in this equation and this pilot obviously did a great job all the way around. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes for a what-if scenario for myself.


Keeping close to an airport with a perfectly adequate 4,500 ft. runway was the way to go. No need to add additional risk and uncertainty. If he really needed longer, Salinas is closer than SJC, has 6,000 ft. and more farmland between the two than going to SJC.

For the question above, I've flown with a friend out of SQL, to Watsonville and around the Bay. Lots of potential terrain, water and building issues in an engine out situation. Not being familiar enough and given its status...would Moffett be an option in an emergency situation?


SJC is closer than Moffett from his location. SJC’s runways are in alignment with the Coyote Valley, which he would likely have followed. If from some reason he needed longer runways, SJC would have been the best choice.

He was flying a Cessna 152 with uncertainty whether the propellor was going to keep turning - or maybe fall off. He did exactly the right thing.
 
cschleic
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:37 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
cschleic wrote:
adipasqu wrote:

Yeah, that is driving distance. From Airnav.com, the distance from WVI to the SJC VOR is 27.4 nm.

I agree, the throttle was obviously no bueno and things could have gone from bad to worse. Luckily, runway 20 at WVI was plenty long for him, which makes this a non-issue. He did touchdown mid-field, however, but we don't know how much pavement he had left when he came to a stop. I'm just trying to do the math as a thought exercise...at a smaller airport with half the runway available (like SQL 16.7 nm from SJC without terrain issues over the bay), do you even try this or declare an emergency and go to SJC...or even SFO (8.8 nm from SQL)? I realize there are many variables in this equation and this pilot obviously did a great job all the way around. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes for a what-if scenario for myself.


Keeping close to an airport with a perfectly adequate 4,500 ft. runway was the way to go. No need to add additional risk and uncertainty. If he really needed longer, Salinas is closer than SJC, has 6,000 ft. and more farmland between the two than going to SJC.

For the question above, I've flown with a friend out of SQL, to Watsonville and around the Bay. Lots of potential terrain, water and building issues in an engine out situation. Not being familiar enough and given its status...would Moffett be an option in an emergency situation?


SJC is closer than Moffett from his location. SJC’s runways are in alignment with the Coyote Valley, which he would likely have followed. If from some reason he needed longer runways, SJC would have been the best choice.

He was flying a Cessna 152 with uncertainty whether the propellor was going to keep turning - or maybe fall off. He did exactly the right thing.


I was asking about Moffett regarding the San Carlos pilot's question for himself.

For the student in the 152, Salinas would be closer but, no, not as long as SJC and maybe not the best choice.
 
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ua900
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:16 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Guy is a student. Keep him in a familiar area, don't add on the stress of dealing with NorCal Approach, frequency changes, jet departures, etc.

Not familiar with NorCal procedures, but he had 4,500 ft of runway under him, I would have done a normal pattern, cut the motor about 2/3rds of the way on downwind and bleed the speed. It will come off quick with flaps in, it's not a Lance or a Mooney. Set up for a normal pattern as the speed bleeds off and turn to land after passing the numbers. With 4,500 feet in a 152, you don't have to aim for the numbers, just stay on speed and put it down in the first half.

It's a 152, I have about 30 hours in one, NOTHING happens very fast.


Exactly right, good piloting and nice to see so many people step up.

adipasqu wrote:
zeke wrote:
One issue with bigger runways is they also tend to be wider, and students tend to flare very high when they see a wider runway for the first time.


In this case, both WVI and SJC are 150 ft wide runways, so not an issue in this case. I am training out of SQL (RWY 12/30 is 2621 x 75 ft) and we do our "large airport" work at SJC, so it will be interesting to experience this when the time comes.


I flew on a 172 into and out of SJC for that, you'll love it. Feels strange to sit there and having to look *up* to a WN 737 lined up next to you ;-)

cschleic wrote:
I've flown with a friend out of SQL, to Watsonville and around the Bay. Lots of potential terrain, water and building issues in an engine out situation. Not being familiar enough and given its status...would Moffett be an option in an emergency situation?


That sums up much of the Bay Area, doesn't it? I used to fly out of DVO a lot and there are so many ditches there around the airfield plus the terrain around Mount Burdell as well. When flying across towards Point Reyes there are a few twisty two lane roads, but otherwise mostly hilly terrain. Also flew from DVO to HAF for burgers a couple of times, same thing. Mount Tam, Bay Bridge, and down the coast. Not a lot of places one could safely land in that area either.

As for Moffett, in an emergency even the 101 would do, as someone in SoCal recently demonstrated: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loca ... e/2609263/
 
USTraveler
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:32 am

Airmanship. Cessnas are the easiest planes to land.
Hopefully he jumps right back in a plane.
Proper airmanship will save the day...
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:03 pm

cschleic wrote:
adipasqu wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I’m getting 46 miles to SJC, although I think it’s driving distance.

Remember, this guy obviously has a malfunction in his throttle control. One of the CFIs on the radio wanted to keep him very close to the airport. There are too many uncertainties here. How do you know the malfunction isn’t going to turn into an engine failure while he’s over the hills halfway to SJC? Now we have a potentially catastrophic condition.


Yeah, that is driving distance. From Airnav.com, the distance from WVI to the SJC VOR is 27.4 nm.

I agree, the throttle was obviously no bueno and things could have gone from bad to worse. Luckily, runway 20 at WVI was plenty long for him, which makes this a non-issue. He did touchdown mid-field, however, but we don't know how much pavement he had left when he came to a stop. I'm just trying to do the math as a thought exercise...at a smaller airport with half the runway available (like SQL 16.7 nm from SJC without terrain issues over the bay), do you even try this or declare an emergency and go to SJC...or even SFO (8.8 nm from SQL)? I realize there are many variables in this equation and this pilot obviously did a great job all the way around. I'm just trying to put myself in his shoes for a what-if scenario for myself.


Keeping close to an airport with a perfectly adequate 4,500 ft. runway was the way to go. No need to add additional risk and uncertainty given the unknowns about the engine. If he really needed longer, Salinas is closer than SJC (only 19 miles), has 6,000 ft. and more farmland between the two than going to SJC. Kudos to the student pilot for handling the situation and his confident outlook.

For the question above, I've flown with a friend out of SQL, to Watsonville and around the Bay. Lots of potential terrain, water and building issues in an engine out situation. Not being familiar enough and given its status...would Moffett be an option in an emergency situation?


Agreed, as the CFI said, best option was to stay local and get setup well.
 
IAHFLYR
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Re: Feel Good ATC Story Out Of California - C152 Student With Stuck Full Throttle

Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:56 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
He was offered 'equipment', as in ARFF i take it, but declined. I think that NORCAL should have sent it anyway if there was time enough, which seems to have been the case. Are there specific procedures stating that the pilot needs to request that?


There are not specific procedures that states a pilot has to request CFR, ATC can initiate the call for CFR and quite often does even when the pilot does not request them to be at their stand-by positions near the runway. All the NorCal controller needed to do was alert the Supervisor and they Supervisor should have called the airport CFR folks and maybe they did as from the link it is difficult at best to determine whether CFR was standing by.

An excellent outcome and kudos to the student and his instructor for preparing for emergency situations.

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