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WA707atMSP
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Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:44 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
DAC got itself a recommendation at Kearney.

Looks like OO's desperate "ill-defined" Part 135 offering is failing miserably.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-1996-1715-0165


This document says Boutique forecasted "24,200 annual passengers on 16,770 annual seats, for a load factor of 144%". It looks like Boutique's proposal has some SERIOUSLY flawed assumptions!
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:13 pm

JBo wrote:
Chuska wrote:
airlineworker wrote:
With the pilot shortage, it's a waste of crews to fly 9-19 seaters. People choose to.live in remote areas and think they are entitled to airline service. What's next, a shopping mall, a sports arena, rall service, etc?


Airline service has been at each EAS city long before most people were born so they may have chosen to live in remote places because of the air service. I do agree though that for places like JLN, MKG, and PUB , how many people at those cities will fly a single engine prop to a hub when you can drive less than an hour to SGF, GRR, and COS and fly a jet to the same hub. Maybe its working for HOT with its close proximity to LIT, I don't know.


I think MKG's hope is that the added frequency from Southern will appeal more to business travelers who might be on a tighter schedule to get to Chicago for their connecting flight rather than the added time to drive to GRR. That was pretty much always MKG's selling/marketing point - a faster and more convenient alternative to GRR - but that hasn't been so effective with OO's limited schedule.

The ideal scenario - and one I wish they would have at least tried to push for - is a split contract with OO providing an early out/late inbound, and Southern a couple of midday turns. But they may have looked into it and it just wasn't going to happen.

Southern is better than nothing, though, and if the pilot shortage works itself out in 2-3 years, MKG can try and get OO to return.


With GRR growing in size, MKG will loose eligibility eventually and it’s just a matter of when. The community is making a smart choice going with the smaller aircraft. They have to get an airline in there and increase numbers so that when they loose the eligibility, the airline will have hopefully had high enough numbers that they would stay without it.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:58 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
DAC got itself a recommendation at Kearney.

Looks like OO's desperate "ill-defined" Part 135 offering is failing miserably.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-1996-1715-0165


This document says Boutique forecasted "24,200 annual passengers on 16,770 annual seats, for a load factor of 144%". It looks like Boutique's proposal has some SERIOUSLY flawed assumptions!


Bless 'em. They tried ...

To be fair, they were never in the running.
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:29 pm

https://www.cityofcapegirardeau.org/new ... _decisions

The Mayor of Cape Girardeau posted a Blog/Opinion piece to explain their process for why they originally chose Contour, and not SkyWest.

The article mentions that SkyWest did not do an RFP, and they also, like many other cities proposed a Part 135 Operation.

One thing that caught my attention was that for SkyWest to do Part 135 Operation, they would be losing the UA Codeshare/Branding on those Part 135 Operations.

The city believes we have a strong proposal in hand from Contour Airlines, and looks forward to seeing that relationship flourish if approved by the city council on June 20. Given our relationship with SkyWest over the past few years, the intention is to get the best offer from SkyWest if they are indeed still interested in serving the region. It is important for the public to understand, however, that the possible service from SkyWest in the future will definitely not be the service we have enjoyed in the past. SkyWest has indicated they will no longer be branded with United Airlines, and there has been no guarantee of any aspect of their service yet. We will see if they are able to present a proposal by June 20 that is acceptable to our traveling public and the region.

Any idea on why doing so would force SkyWest to lose the UA Codeshare/Branding? Scope? Part 135 Ops....

Interesting statement, plus HOW would SkyWest then be able to sell their seats and use a Reservation?

Alex
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:44 pm

atrude777 wrote:
https://www.cityofcapegirardeau.org/news/whats_new/mayor_kinder_on_air_service_decisions

The Mayor of Cape Girardeau posted a Blog/Opinion piece to explain their process for why they originally chose Contour, and not SkyWest.

The article mentions that SkyWest did not do an RFP, and they also, like many other cities proposed a Part 135 Operation.

One thing that caught my attention was that for SkyWest to do Part 135 Operation, they would be losing the UA Codeshare/Branding on those Part 135 Operations.

The city believes we have a strong proposal in hand from Contour Airlines, and looks forward to seeing that relationship flourish if approved by the city council on June 20. Given our relationship with SkyWest over the past few years, the intention is to get the best offer from SkyWest if they are indeed still interested in serving the region. It is important for the public to understand, however, that the possible service from SkyWest in the future will definitely not be the service we have enjoyed in the past. SkyWest has indicated they will no longer be branded with United Airlines, and there has been no guarantee of any aspect of their service yet. We will see if they are able to present a proposal by June 20 that is acceptable to our traveling public and the region.

Any idea on why doing so would force SkyWest to lose the UA Codeshare/Branding? Scope? Part 135 Ops....

Interesting statement, plus HOW would SkyWest then be able to sell their seats and use a Reservation?

Alex


That shouldn't stop them from using a GDS. Contour does.

The worst thing though is that apparently, there isn't even a start date for OO's proposed Part 135 operation (one of the titbits in the SHD recommendation and one of the main reasons OO got turned down). They've already been messing around for the past 6 months, pretty much, and there is no end in sight. They're basically expecting communities to take their word and sign them a blank check.

Frankly, CGI and the others would do well to stay well clear of this. At least, it looks like sanity will prevail.
 
MO11
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:57 am

atrude777 wrote:

Any idea on why doing so would force SkyWest to lose the UA Codeshare/Branding? Scope? Part 135 Ops....



Alex



Public charter.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:10 am

I think the new contracts at Envoy and Piedmont, (soon also PSA) is going to put a real hurt on the small carriers in the short term, as pilots walk for much better money, even to start. Piedmont now starts out at better pay than Frontier or Spirit!

To fly 145’s……
Captain pay scales for FO’s with 750 hours of 121 time, paid commuting, etc…
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:42 am

MO11 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:

Any idea on why doing so would force SkyWest to lose the UA Codeshare/Branding? Scope? Part 135 Ops....



Alex



Public charter.


Would this be why that Contour can’t establish a full codeshare with American? As they are considered a public charter?

I assume then SkyWest as a Part 135 would just keep the interline aspect with United then, but as mentioned, not be actually operating as United Express then.

If SkyWest can still have a United Interline to Chicago, then it’s absolutely no different then what Contour is offering with American.

Alex
 
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usxguy
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:07 am

atrude777 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:

Any idea on why doing so would force SkyWest to lose the UA Codeshare/Branding? Scope? Part 135 Ops....



Alex



Public charter.


Would this be why that Contour can’t establish a full codeshare with American? As they are considered a public charter?

I assume then SkyWest as a Part 135 would just keep the interline aspect with United then, but as mentioned, not be actually operating as United Express then.

If SkyWest can still have a United Interline to Chicago, then it’s absolutely no different then what Contour is offering with American.

Alex


SkyWest needs their own reservation system in order to have an interline agreement. Contour would have to upgrade to a Scheduled Part 121 operation to be a codeshare partner with American.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:20 am

That "public charter can't codeshare" thing sure sounds like a myth to me.

Everybody's repeating it, yet I've never been able to come across anyone that's actually able to point out any provisions in the rules that actually says that.
 
MO11
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:48 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
That "public charter can't codeshare" thing sure sounds like a myth to me.

Everybody's repeating it, yet I've never been able to come across anyone that's actually able to point out any provisions in the rules that actually says that.



You can - if the code bearing carrier files a public charter prospectus. JetBlue did with JetSuiteX in 2020 (but no longer does).
 
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Frontier14
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:24 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
DAC got itself a recommendation at Kearney.

Looks like OO's desperate "ill-defined" Part 135 offering is failing miserably.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-1996-1715-0165



Salina KS has bought into the OO "Part 135" concept.

Frontier 14
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:03 pm

MO11 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
That "public charter can't codeshare" thing sure sounds like a myth to me.

Everybody's repeating it, yet I've never been able to come across anyone that's actually able to point out any provisions in the rules that actually says that.



You can - if the code bearing carrier files a public charter prospectus. JetBlue did with JetSuiteX in 2020 (but no longer does).

JetBlue still “code shares” on JSX flights.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:10 pm

Frontier14 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
DAC got itself a recommendation at Kearney.

Looks like OO's desperate "ill-defined" Part 135 offering is failing miserably.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-1996-1715-0165


Salina KS has bought into the OO "Part 135" concept.

Frontier 14


Where did you see that? There's nothing official I can see.

And considering they had an excellent offer from DAC on the table, if it's true, whoever's in charge at SLN frankly needs their head examined!
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 6:37 pm

All-Thanks to everyone who commented or added Updates. I am compiling them all together into one page to piggy back off the list I created...

UPDATE:

• Sioux City, Iowa

Submitted Bids: Boutique Air

Action: Board Filed to Extend Deadline to June 24th. Board also filed to REJECT Boutique Air and keep SkyWest at 7 Weekly.

[i]Update: SkyWest to continue flying for SUX at Two Daily until July 31st. [/i]

Source: https://siouxlandnews.com/news/local/sk ... -july-31st

"SIOUX CITY, Iowa — Skywest Airlines will continue to service the Sioux Gateway Airport through at least July 31st.

The information comes after a meeting of the Sioux Gateway Airport Board on Wednesday morning, June 15th.

Last month, the board rejected a proposal by Boutique Air to offer more than two-dozen flights a week to Minneapolis on a nine-seat propeller airplane.

At that same meeting on May 19th, the board made a recommendation to keep SkyWest as the airport's EAS provider."

************************************************************************************************************************************
• Shenandoah, Virginia

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines | COOL Air

Action: None Taken Yet

Update: SHD Voted for Contour

Source: https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... 11378-0130

************************************************************************************************************************************
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

"SkyWest, which had recently announced it could rescind its initial termination of service for the airport -- set to take place June 24 -- has until noon Friday to submit to the board a formal proposal for consideration....

The board decided to hold a special meeting at 3 p.m. Friday to go over the possible SkyWest proposal and make an updated recommendation to the council before it is set to vote on the issue June 20....

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....

"If SkyWest can present an offer that they can maintain their contract, I think it's in everybody's best interest to move forward," Amos said. "If we can trust the proposal that's being presented."...

At the end of the meeting, Amos addressed community concerns at the possible carrier change. Nashville being a less popular destination than Chicago for connecting flights has been chief among them, she said...."

*****************************************************************************************************************
• Liberal, Kansas

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways

June 15th: Updated Action

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3498-0115

Liberal has declined both Boutique and Southern Airways due to Single Engine Ops. Will be staying with SkyWest Airlines. SkyWest will drop to 1 Daily, and work on Part 135 Ops. Liberal will rebid again in August or September 2022 for the next round of proposals.
***********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Next two days by most communities will be interesting and should hear more updates.

I appreciate now how forthcoming CGI is about their decision making process and including everyone.

Alex
Last edited by atrude777 on Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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knope2001
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:01 pm

Only speculative, but the codeshare between a big airline and a public charters / part 135 operator may be more of a "won't" rather than "can't".

If I'm United and I put my UA* code on a Skywest Part 135 flight there's serious risk of "The ticket says United but the pilots are inexperienced and the safety standards are far below that bare minimum FAA requirements for most US Airlines" hit pieces on TV or in print. Almost a guarantee if there's an accident or incident, and undoubtedly the Buffalo crash story will be revived.

Sure, there's always some risk of this any time anything is subcontracted out. And a couple decades back when many code-share regional carriers were part 135 the risk was always there. But in 2022 the risk/reward decision in this case has very little added benefit for United to offset the risk. The amount of revenue United loses if Johnstown-Dulles switches from UA* to OO is tiny -- a good portion of people flying JST-IAD-xxx will still connect via United anyway.
 
32andBelow
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:15 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Only speculative, but the codeshare between a big airline and a public charters / part 135 operator may be more of a "won't" rather than "can't".

If I'm United and I put my UA* code on a Skywest Part 135 flight there's serious risk of "The ticket says United but the pilots are inexperienced and the safety standards are far below that bare minimum FAA requirements for most US Airlines" hit pieces on TV or in print. Almost a guarantee if there's an accident or incident, and undoubtedly the Buffalo crash story will be revived.

Sure, there's always some risk of this any time anything is subcontracted out. And a couple decades back when many code-share regional carriers were part 135 the risk was always there. But in 2022 the risk/reward decision in this case has very little added benefit for United to offset the risk. The amount of revenue United loses if Johnstown-Dulles switches from UA* to OO is tiny -- a good portion of people flying JST-IAD-xxx will still connect via United anyway.

The best I can think of is Alaska code share with the old penair and ravn. Those airlines had a mix of 121 and 135 flights to get all the way to your finally destination.
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:36 pm

atrude777 wrote:
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....


I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.
 
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usxguy
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:37 pm

The Alaska codeshare was only on Part 121 ops. The frequent flyer earn & burn was on all flights though.
 
RJNUT
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:03 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....


I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.

Seems the AEAS program has some built in flexibility. But i agree it should be like GLH that has BNA and DFW . BNA alone will not drive the numbers they expect
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:08 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....


I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.


Once the region loses Chicago, I have no skin in the game. As someone who lives in Chicago and flies into CGI to visit the family, Contour addition won't get me home anymore. So the next best thing is to do what's right for the community, and nothing against Contour, Nashville is not right. AA in BNA providing Interline does nothing.

I also wish they pushed for CLT, but agree on the backtracking too. CGI-DFW/CLT on Contour with AA Interline would be a HUGE win for the region. While I won't use the service, the community down there will.

Selfishly, I am hoping somehow they keep Chicago because flight wise, that was my non stop home. However, they don't cater to me :). Back to Amtrak I go!

Maybe CGI could talk them into doing....

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

I think that would be an amazing schedule!

I'm just dreaming...

Alex
 
Jshank83
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:20 pm

atrude777 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....


I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.


Once the region loses Chicago, I have no skin in the game. As someone who lives in Chicago and flies into CGI to visit the family, Contour addition won't get me home anymore. So the next best thing is to do what's right for the community, and nothing against Contour, Nashville is not right. AA in BNA providing Interline does nothing.

I also wish they pushed for CLT, but agree on the backtracking too. CGI-DFW/CLT on Contour with AA Interline would be a HUGE win for the region. While I won't use the service, the community down there will.

Selfishly, I am hoping somehow they keep Chicago because flight wise, that was my non stop home. However, they don't cater to me :). Back to Amtrak I go!

Maybe CGI could talk them into doing....

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

I think that would be an amazing schedule!

I'm just dreaming...

Alex


I'd just do 2x to DFW and not worry about CLT. 2nd flight as a backup incase the one a day get canceled.

In this setup if you don't get back to CLT by 920 am you can't connect home on that flight and then you are stuck until the next day.

I never understood the split airports if it means you aren't getting at least two to each.
 
Chuska
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:32 pm

Alex...Thanks for your updates. If I'm doing the math right, looks like nine cities are now trying to keep OO:
DVL, HYS, CMX, JLN, LBL, LBF, SLN, SUX, and VCT.
 
atrude777
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:37 pm

Jshank83 wrote:

I'd just do 2x to DFW and not worry about CLT. 2nd flight as a backup incase the one a day get canceled.

In this setup if you don't get back to CLT by 920 am you can't connect home on that flight and then you are stuck until the next day.

I never understood the split airports if it means you aren't getting at least two to each.


Oh I agree, it needs to be 2 flights to the same city. My only argument was if CGI is going to split it, BNA/CLT, they need to just get rid of BNA period and add DFW, an AA Hub.

It would be better to just do what you said 2 to DFW or CLT.

CLT is great as a hub for AA, but man...especially being in the Midwest is it backtracking if you have to fly North, West or even true South.

Alex
 
BangersAndMash
Posts: 850
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:51 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.


Once the region loses Chicago, I have no skin in the game. As someone who lives in Chicago and flies into CGI to visit the family, Contour addition won't get me home anymore. So the next best thing is to do what's right for the community, and nothing against Contour, Nashville is not right. AA in BNA providing Interline does nothing.

I also wish they pushed for CLT, but agree on the backtracking too. CGI-DFW/CLT on Contour with AA Interline would be a HUGE win for the region. While I won't use the service, the community down there will.

Selfishly, I am hoping somehow they keep Chicago because flight wise, that was my non stop home. However, they don't cater to me :). Back to Amtrak I go!

Maybe CGI could talk them into doing....

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

I think that would be an amazing schedule!

I'm just dreaming...

Alex


I'd just do 2x to DFW and not worry about CLT. 2nd flight as a backup incase the one a day get canceled.

In this setup if you don't get back to CLT by 920 am you can't connect home on that flight and then you are stuck until the next day.

I never understood the split airports if it means you aren't getting at least two to each.


Oh absolutely, that's what I meant. DFW instead of CLT as a second hub link. I don't think BNA will go away. Reading the article linked to upthread, the business community seems on board with that.

Well more flights means more costs, so you propose what you think you can get away with on the subsidy front. And there is the issue of whether you can actually fill 4 daily flights. It's probably challenging in some markets. I don't know CGI enough, but it was a Cape Air market not so long ago. Contour tends to be quite conservative as well. They like to under-promise and over-deliver, which is a good approach. Allows you to give a little more when the contract is up for renewal. Smart!

But yeah, you should have at the very least 2x daily to one hub.
 
FlyingElvii
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:55 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....


I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.

I thought the same about Hattiesburg.

Contour has really turned around all-but-abandoned Greenville with DFW/ BNA options.
But…
I understand that there are ground handling issues at DFW for all of the small carriers, especially dealing with remote stand parking?
 
FlyingElvii
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Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:57 pm

atrude777 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....


I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.


Once the region loses Chicago, I have no skin in the game. As someone who lives in Chicago and flies into CGI to visit the family, Contour addition won't get me home anymore. So the next best thing is to do what's right for the community, and nothing against Contour, Nashville is not right. AA in BNA providing Interline does nothing.

I also wish they pushed for CLT, but agree on the backtracking too. CGI-DFW/CLT on Contour with AA Interline would be a HUGE win for the region. While I won't use the service, the community down there will.

Selfishly, I am hoping somehow they keep Chicago because flight wise, that was my non stop home. However, they don't cater to me :). Back to Amtrak I go!

Maybe CGI could talk them into doing....

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

I think that would be an amazing schedule!

I'm just dreaming...

Alex
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:59 pm

Where does Contour board and deplane at CLT?
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:59 pm

Chuska wrote:
Alex...Thanks for your updates. If I'm doing the math right, looks like nine cities are now trying to keep OO:
DVL, HYS, CMX, JLN, LBL, LBF, SLN, SUX, and VCT.


Just small caveat, some of these cities (DVL, HYS, SLN, and SUX) haven't filed the necessary paperwork yet. Although it's likely just a formality for most of them.

DEC is likely to try and keep OO as well, at least according to their past filing when they accepted the service reduction.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:01 pm

atrude777 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
• Cape Girardeau, Missouri

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air | Contour Airlines

[b]June 15th: Action Update
[/b]

Source: https://www.semissourian.com/story/2953825.html

Amos added there had been "surface level" conversations with Contour about adding Charlotte, North Carolina, to the airport's service if the council goes in that direction. Contour has an established hub in the city....


I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.


Once the region loses Chicago, I have no skin in the game. As someone who lives in Chicago and flies into CGI to visit the family, Contour addition won't get me home anymore. So the next best thing is to do what's right for the community, and nothing against Contour, Nashville is not right. AA in BNA providing Interline does nothing.

I also wish they pushed for CLT, but agree on the backtracking too. CGI-DFW/CLT on Contour with AA Interline would be a HUGE win for the region. While I won't use the service, the community down there will.

Selfishly, I am hoping somehow they keep Chicago because flight wise, that was my non stop home. However, they don't cater to me :). Back to Amtrak I go!

Maybe CGI could talk them into doing....

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

I think that would be an amazing schedule!

I'm just dreaming...

Alex

That is also at least a 15 hour duty day requiring two crews a day to cover, which is not going to happen in the current environment.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:11 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
Where does Contour board and deplane at CLT?

A10, but that will surely change if they add more trips into Charlotte.
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:16 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:

Oh absolutely, that's what I meant. DFW instead of CLT as a second hub link. I don't think BNA will go away. Reading the article linked to upthread, the business community seems on board with that.

Well more flights means more costs, so you propose what you think you can get away with on the subsidy front. And there is the issue of whether you can actually fill 4 daily flights. It's probably challenging in some markets. I don't know CGI enough, but it was a Cape Air market not so long ago. Contour tends to be quite conservative as well. They like to under-promise and over-deliver, which is a good approach. Allows you to give a little more when the contract is up for renewal. Smart!

But yeah, you should have at the very least 2x daily to one hub.


My schedule isn't for 4 daily flights.

Just 2, 1-CLT (6am Departure) and 1 -DFW (12pm Departure)

See Again...

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

No way can CGI support 4 Departures on Jet Service. They barely got 4 on Cape Air filled up!

In that case, now I know what you meant. BNA/DFW is still an odd split....

It's probably going to be either 2 to BNA or 2 to CLT.

I'll be shocked if CGI splits it...but oh well.

I'll be curious what SkyWest manages to propose on Friday, because CGI will accept nothing less then 2 non stop's to Chicago, and the lack of the UA Branding will make it harder to accept SkyWest's Proposal too. SkyWest by removing the UA Banding is just making them equal to Contour, Part 135 and Interline Operation.

Alex
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:18 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:

I'm a bit surprised they don't push for DFW with Contour, for something similar to the service pattern at GLH. BNA has a decent coverage of most cities on the East Coast with AA and friends. DFW would give them better coverage of the Midwest and West Coast. CLT covers a lot of the same ground compared to BNA, and it involves a lot of backtracking to the middle of the country.


Once the region loses Chicago, I have no skin in the game. As someone who lives in Chicago and flies into CGI to visit the family, Contour addition won't get me home anymore. So the next best thing is to do what's right for the community, and nothing against Contour, Nashville is not right. AA in BNA providing Interline does nothing.

I also wish they pushed for CLT, but agree on the backtracking too. CGI-DFW/CLT on Contour with AA Interline would be a HUGE win for the region. While I won't use the service, the community down there will.

Selfishly, I am hoping somehow they keep Chicago because flight wise, that was my non stop home. However, they don't cater to me :). Back to Amtrak I go!

Maybe CGI could talk them into doing....

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

I think that would be an amazing schedule!

I'm just dreaming...

Alex

That is also at least a 15 hour duty day requiring two crews a day to cover, which is not going to happen in the current environment.


However that's exactly what Contour is proposing, 2 Departures, 12 weekly...see my "fake schedule" above...6am Departure to CLT, and 12pm Departure to DFW.

If Contour cannot handle that then they shouldn't be bidding...

Alex
 
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:38 pm

atrude777 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
atrude777 wrote:

Once the region loses Chicago, I have no skin in the game. As someone who lives in Chicago and flies into CGI to visit the family, Contour addition won't get me home anymore. So the next best thing is to do what's right for the community, and nothing against Contour, Nashville is not right. AA in BNA providing Interline does nothing.

I also wish they pushed for CLT, but agree on the backtracking too. CGI-DFW/CLT on Contour with AA Interline would be a HUGE win for the region. While I won't use the service, the community down there will.

Selfishly, I am hoping somehow they keep Chicago because flight wise, that was my non stop home. However, they don't cater to me :). Back to Amtrak I go!

Maybe CGI could talk them into doing....

6am Departure CGI-CLT (connects easily to all of the East)
10am Departure CLT-CGI
12pm Departure CGI- DFW
6-8pm Departure DFW-CGI (overnights for the 6am to CLT)

I think that would be an amazing schedule!

I'm just dreaming...

Alex

That is also at least a 15 hour duty day requiring two crews a day to cover, which is not going to happen in the current environment.


However that's exactly what Contour is proposing, 2 Departures, 12 weekly...see my "fake schedule" above...6am Departure to CLT, and 12pm Departure to DFW.

If Contour cannot handle that then they shouldn't be bidding...

Alex


That's what's on the the table right now, yes (i.e. 12x weekly to BNA). But as RJNUT was pointing out upthread, AEAS is a lot more flexible than EAS in terms of schedule changes. As long as the community is on board, you don't need DOT approval. You can add destinations, even less than daily if you wish, you vary frequencies by days, the possibilities are endless. And it can happen quickly.
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:49 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
That is also at least a 15 hour duty day requiring two crews a day to cover, which is not going to happen in the current environment.


However that's exactly what Contour is proposing, 2 Departures, 12 weekly...see my "fake schedule" above...6am Departure to CLT, and 12pm Departure to DFW.

If Contour cannot handle that then they shouldn't be bidding...

Alex


That's what's on the the table right now, yes (i.e. 12x weekly to BNA). But as RJNUT was pointing out upthread, AEAS is a lot more flexible than EAS in terms of schedule changes. As long as the community is on board, you don't need DOT approval. You can add destinations, even less than daily if you wish, you vary frequencies by days, the possibilities are endless. And it can happen quickly.


My response was to FlyingElvii saying my schedule of 2 Departures would require the 15 Hour Crew thing and that's not sustainable in the environment. Hence why I said "then Contour shouldn't be bidding".

I just want to make sure the users know I didn't propose four departures, only four flights (2 Outbound and 2 inbound) when I was making up the CLT/DFW Split.

I am just worried I confused everyone now with my "fake schedule"... :lol:

Alex
 
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:32 am

atrude777 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
atrude777 wrote:

However that's exactly what Contour is proposing, 2 Departures, 12 weekly...see my "fake schedule" above...6am Departure to CLT, and 12pm Departure to DFW.

If Contour cannot handle that then they shouldn't be bidding...

Alex


That's what's on the the table right now, yes (i.e. 12x weekly to BNA). But as RJNUT was pointing out upthread, AEAS is a lot more flexible than EAS in terms of schedule changes. As long as the community is on board, you don't need DOT approval. You can add destinations, even less than daily if you wish, you vary frequencies by days, the possibilities are endless. And it can happen quickly.


My response was to FlyingElvii saying my schedule of 2 Departures would require the 15 Hour Crew thing and that's not sustainable in the environment. Hence why I said "then Contour shouldn't be bidding".

I just want to make sure the users know I didn't propose four departures, only four flights (2 Outbound and 2 inbound) when I was making up the CLT/DFW Split.

I am just worried I confused everyone now with my "fake schedule"... :lol:

Alex

This may have changed in recent years, but the last I knew, a 135 crew can stand 14 hours from duty on to duty off, as long as they don’t violate the 10 in 24 rule.
That works out to approx. 2.2-2.5 crews per plane required for a daily op, covering training times, call outs, etc. Closer to 3 if you want a healthy reserve.

A 121 crew is limited to 14 hrs on day one, 12 hrs day two, 10 hrs day three, 8 on day four, with even more differing rules for a stand-up over night. 10/24 rule still applies.
(Someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong). Individual contracts can be even more restrictive.
That works out to sound 3.9-4.5 crews per plane for a full daily op.

IIRC this is a large part of why true regionals fell after the 1994 Airline Safety Act rewrite, and the and the survivors becoming FPD Contractors, instead of true regionals.
 
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:40 pm

***UPDATE***

• Houghton, Michigan

Submitted Bids: Boutique Air

Action: Declined Boutique Air, will be sticking with SkyWest and attempting to enforce the Contract.

June 16th Update: Houghton Board officially rejects SkyWest's request to drop service to One Daily. Will be enforcing the contract to serve two daily until end of contract.

SkyWest Airlines wants to drop service down to a single round trip flight a day at Houghton County Memorial Airport (CMX). In the county commissioners’ special meeting this morning, all five members agreed to deny SkyWest’s proposed plan to slow service in the county until the end of their contract in January 2023. The airline’s proposed plan was determined to not fit the community’s need for multiple flights a day, throughout the year, as CMX sees between 50 and 70 thousand passengers annually.

Source: http://www.keweenawreport.com/featured/ ... r-service/

Alex
 
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:00 pm

atrude777 wrote:
***UPDATE***

• Houghton, Michigan

Submitted Bids: Boutique Air

Action: Declined Boutique Air, will be sticking with SkyWest and attempting to enforce the Contract.

June 16th Update: Houghton Board officially rejects SkyWest's request to drop service to One Daily. Will be enforcing the contract to serve two daily until end of contract.

SkyWest Airlines wants to drop service down to a single round trip flight a day at Houghton County Memorial Airport (CMX). In the county commissioners’ special meeting this morning, all five members agreed to deny SkyWest’s proposed plan to slow service in the county until the end of their contract in January 2023. The airline’s proposed plan was determined to not fit the community’s need for multiple flights a day, throughout the year, as CMX sees between 50 and 70 thousand passengers annually.
I'd be having immediate talks with DAC or Contour as OO will not return after January 23 contract is up. Calling OO's bluff only to lose in the end but somebody had to do it. Sacrificial lamb, CMX!
Source: http://www.keweenawreport.com/featured/ ... r-service/

Alex
 
32andBelow
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:17 pm

atrude777 wrote:
***UPDATE***

• Houghton, Michigan

Submitted Bids: Boutique Air

Action: Declined Boutique Air, will be sticking with SkyWest and attempting to enforce the Contract.

June 16th Update: Houghton Board officially rejects SkyWest's request to drop service to One Daily. Will be enforcing the contract to serve two daily until end of contract.

SkyWest Airlines wants to drop service down to a single round trip flight a day at Houghton County Memorial Airport (CMX). In the county commissioners’ special meeting this morning, all five members agreed to deny SkyWest’s proposed plan to slow service in the county until the end of their contract in January 2023. The airline’s proposed plan was determined to not fit the community’s need for multiple flights a day, throughout the year, as CMX sees between 50 and 70 thousand passengers annually.

Source: http://www.keweenawreport.com/featured/ ... r-service/

Alex
they get 50,000-70,000 passengers and they are EAS?? most EAS cities are scrambling to get 10,000
 
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:21 pm

32andBelow wrote:
atrude777 wrote:
***UPDATE***

• Houghton, Michigan

Submitted Bids: Boutique Air

Action: Declined Boutique Air, will be sticking with SkyWest and attempting to enforce the Contract.

June 16th Update: Houghton Board officially rejects SkyWest's request to drop service to One Daily. Will be enforcing the contract to serve two daily until end of contract.

SkyWest Airlines wants to drop service down to a single round trip flight a day at Houghton County Memorial Airport (CMX). In the county commissioners’ special meeting this morning, all five members agreed to deny SkyWest’s proposed plan to slow service in the county until the end of their contract in January 2023. The airline’s proposed plan was determined to not fit the community’s need for multiple flights a day, throughout the year, as CMX sees between 50 and 70 thousand passengers annually.

Source: http://www.keweenawreport.com/featured/ ... r-service/

Alex
they get 50,000-70,000 passengers and they are EAS?? most EAS cities are scrambling to get 10,000


(total) passengers, not emplacements. Most EAS cities are over 10K passenger, a lot of them substantially so.

A bit of hyperbole there. CMX was actually 44.5K for the year April 2021 to March 2022.

https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?20=E&Nv42146=PZk&Nv42146_anzr=Un0p1px/U17tu610,%20ZV:%20U17tu610%20P1706B%20Zrz14vny&pn44vr4=SNPgf
 
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Frontier14
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Fri Jun 17, 2022 9:25 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
DAC got itself a recommendation at Kearney.

Looks like OO's desperate "ill-defined" Part 135 offering is failing miserably.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-1996-1715-0165


Salina KS has bought into the OO "Part 135" concept.

Frontier 14


Where did you see that? There's nothing official I can see.

And considering they had an excellent offer from DAC on the table, if it's true, whoever's in charge at SLN frankly needs their head examined!


Saw it on the Salina Airport Board/Authority web page in their minutes. It stated they ( the board) preferred staying with Skywest at seven flights a week in hope that pilot staffing issues would improve down the road and go back up to the 12 flights as the EAS contract requires. Apparently, they have been in discussions with OO and this was the outcome. I am surprised they did not opt for the DAC proposal too!

Frontier 14
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:39 pm

UPDATE

*Cape Girardeau, Missouri (CGI)

June 17th-- Cape Girardeau Airport, after hearing a 45 Minute SkyWest proposal, still went ahead and voted for Contour Airlines. They will pass over to CGI Council for final vote on Monday.

https://www.semissourian.com/story/2954292.html

Cape Girardeau Airport Advisory Board members met for the second time in a week Friday, to go over a possible carrier service change in order to make an official recommendation for Monday's City Council meeting.

Board members ultimately voted unanimously to affirm their unanimous June 6 decision to recommend switching to Contour Aviation...

Belmont, at numerous points in the meeting, said he would like to get into more specifics about the carrier's proposal next week even with the impending council meeting days away.

Amos said she was disappointed with the lack of clarity from SkyWest after the presentation and that the decision would now, once again, be turned over to the council.


Alex
 
BangersAndMash
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:11 am

Frontier14 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
Frontier14 wrote:

Salina KS has bought into the OO "Part 135" concept.

Frontier 14


Where did you see that? There's nothing official I can see.

And considering they had an excellent offer from DAC on the table, if it's true, whoever's in charge at SLN frankly needs their head examined!


Saw it on the Salina Airport Board/Authority web page in their minutes. It stated they (the board) preferred staying with Skywest at seven flights a week in hope that pilot staffing issues would improve down the road and go back up to the 12 flights as the EAS contract requires. Apparently, they have been in discussions with OO and this was the outcome. I am surprised they did not opt for the DAC proposal too!

Frontier 14


Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

The fact they would go for something like that, where OO has been incapable (repeatedly so) of making a firm commitment of any kind, is just crazy. But then again not unsurprising. For some reason, some folks think OO can do no wrong.

Oh well, if it comes to pass, maybe DAC can redeploy these resources to benefit another, shall we say more deserving, community.

I'm also looking forward to the SLN officials having to explain 6 months down the line why they're still only on 1x daily when others are back to normal with reliable service. Now that's going to be fun!
 
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:22 am

atrude777 wrote:
UPDATE

*Cape Girardeau, Missouri (CGI)

June 17th-- Cape Girardeau Airport, after hearing a 45 Minute SkyWest proposal, still went ahead and voted for Contour Airlines. They will pass over to CGI Council for final vote on Monday.

https://www.semissourian.com/story/2954292.html

Cape Girardeau Airport Advisory Board members met for the second time in a week Friday, to go over a possible carrier service change in order to make an official recommendation for Monday's City Council meeting.

Board members ultimately voted unanimously to affirm their unanimous June 6 decision to recommend switching to Contour Aviation...

Belmont, at numerous points in the meeting, said he would like to get into more specifics about the carrier's proposal next week even with the impending council meeting days away.

Amos said she was disappointed with the lack of clarity from SkyWest after the presentation and that the decision would now, once again, be turned over to the council.


Alex


Good! Although I know the news isn't going to fill you with joy. ;)

OO have had 2 weeks to come up with something concrete and it's still just hot air. "Belmont, at numerous points in the meeting, said he would like to get into more specifics about the carrier's proposal next week". They must be having a laugh! They've been incapable of doing that up to now, can't see what difference a few days is going to make. Time to move on.
 
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theAviationGeek
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:39 pm

https://starherald.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/equipment-renovations-underway-at-scottsbluff-airport/article_fb9206bc-a7af-5812-afb0-3c99684a408f.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

While nothing solid has been announced, a bit of an update as to where Scottsbluff, NE (BFF) stands:

    OO notified BFF of their intent to abandon the city back in March 2022.

    A DOT hold-in order requires OO to continue providing service. OO’s contract ends in January 2023.

    BFF says OO will provide an update on June 24, 2022. Again, there is that 6/24 date we keep seeing (I wonder what’s brewing).

    BFF says it isn’t looking at any other bids or options at this time until OO provides their update.

    BFF should easily pass the 10k annual passenger requirement. As of May, they have boarded 5197 pax for the year which is about 600 pax higher than last year.

It’s my observation that passenger traffic at BFF ticked up once jet service was introduced and fares on the BFF-DEN leg were kept reasonable.

From the 1980s until 1994, the city saw two (sometimes three) airlines serving the community. Flights were branded as Continental Express and United Express. GP Express, at times, also served the community providing the “River Run” across the state.

In 1994, CO drew down the DEN hub leaving just Mesa then Great Lakes to operate as United Express until 2016. Service between 1988 and 2016 was almost exclusively B1900s with an occasional EMB-120 in the latter years.

In 2017, PenAir attempted service for a year using the Saab 340B which proved to be a operational disaster.

The airport went without service for a short period of time and then Skywest began flights into BFF starting in January 2018 using the CRJ-200. This was the first jet aircraft to have scheduled service at BFF since the days of the original Frontier using 737-200s there. Capacity-wise, the CRJ is also the largest aircraft to provide scheduled service since the days of CO/Rocky Mountain using the Dash 7 in the 1980s.

Ryan
 
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usxguy
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:37 pm

MO11 wrote:
BangersAndMash wrote:
That "public charter can't codeshare" thing sure sounds like a myth to me.

Everybody's repeating it, yet I've never been able to come across anyone that's actually able to point out any provisions in the rules that actually says that.



You can - if the code bearing carrier files a public charter prospectus. JetBlue did with JetSuiteX in 2020 (but no longer does).


JetBlue has to take part of the DOT 380 prospectus and ensure the values of any tickets sold are placed into the approved escrow. Not a fast or easy task because XE has the escrow & interline/codeshare tickets have no financial transaction until the flight coupons (tickets) are used. This was easy to convince the DOT to allow because B6 has an ownership stake in XE.

*I was involved in the processes fwiw.
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:48 pm

BangersAndMash wrote:

Good! Although I know the news isn't going to fill you with joy. ;)

OO have had 2 weeks to come up with something concrete and it's still just hot air. "Belmont, at numerous points in the meeting, said he would like to get into more specifics about the carrier's proposal next week". They must be having a laugh! They've been incapable of doing that up to now, can't see what difference a few days is going to make. Time to move on.


I don't care WHO flies it, just would have liked to see Chicago stick around. That's why I rooted for SkyWest. If Contour bid to ORD for the AA interline or CGI selected Southern's Bid for Chicago, I would be cheering on that too. Just will be bummed to lose my Non Stop option to the region.

theAviationGeek wrote:

BFF says OO will provide an update on June 24, 2022. Again, there is that 6/24 date we keep seeing (I wonder what’s brewing).

Ryan


June 24th to CGI and other cities is the day SkyWest had planned to Rescind the Termination. Not sure WHY specifically June 24th though, must be some deadline by someone else, FAA? DOT? United?

Will be curious if SkyWest will still rescind for CGI, and other cities as well.

Paducah is still waiting to hear on SkyWest's Proposal by June 24th.

Alex
 
atrude777
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Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:00 pm

***UPDATE***

• Jamestown, North Dakota

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air

Action: Asking DOT to decline both Proposals

Update: June 18th | Jamestown (JMS) and SkyWest has reached an agreement to provide two daily non stop flights to Denver beginning July 12th.

Source: https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/skywe ... wn-airport

Notes: “We are happy that we have reached some kind of a compromise in this situation,” Hemmer said. “Not overnighting an aircraft in North Dakota helps with their entire crew scheduling and the pilot shortage that they are experiencing by basing their crew out of Denver and providing just the two afternoon round-trip flights for Jamestown.”

Jamestown Regional Airport will provide formal responses before June 30 to the two proposals from two airlines to serve the airport. Southern Airways Express and Boutique Air submitted proposals in May to the USDOT to serve the Jamestown airport.

“We are not going to be waiving our right to a two-engine aircraft therefore both of those proposals do not meet the minimum EAS requirements,” she said. “Our position hasn’t changed, but we haven’t formally sent it to the DOT nor has the DOT formally made a decision on it.”



Alex
 
DakotaFlyer
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:19 pm

Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:17 pm

atrude777 wrote:
***UPDATE***

• Jamestown, North Dakota

Submitted Bids: Southern Airways | Boutique Air

Action: Asking DOT to decline both Proposals

Update: June 18th | Jamestown (JMS) and SkyWest has reached an agreement to provide two daily non stop flights to Denver beginning July 12th.

Source: https://www.jamestownsun.com/news/skywe ... wn-airport

Notes: “We are happy that we have reached some kind of a compromise in this situation,” Hemmer said. “Not overnighting an aircraft in North Dakota helps with their entire crew scheduling and the pilot shortage that they are experiencing by basing their crew out of Denver and providing just the two afternoon round-trip flights for Jamestown.”

Jamestown Regional Airport will provide formal responses before June 30 to the two proposals from two airlines to serve the airport. Southern Airways Express and Boutique Air submitted proposals in May to the USDOT to serve the Jamestown airport.

“We are not going to be waiving our right to a two-engine aircraft therefore both of those proposals do not meet the minimum EAS requirements,” she said. “Our position hasn’t changed, but we haven’t formally sent it to the DOT nor has the DOT formally made a decision on it.”



Alex

I know this board isn't to debate the merits of EAS and I am a supporter of the program, whoever JMS is one I can not understand. It's 90 minutes to both Bismarck and Fargo ( less if doing above the 75 mph speed limit) and there isn't a lot of people that live outside of immediate JMS area and are not even closer to the two other airports.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 820
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: United States Essential Air Service (EAS) Thread

Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:26 pm

...and to think JMS had NW 727 service NONSTOP to BIS and FAR back in regulated days LOL.

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