Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
32andBelow wrote:I’m not sure if you can amend an EAS contract without a full rebid.
JBo wrote:32andBelow wrote:I’m not sure if you can amend an EAS contract without a full rebid.
You can if the community requests the changes.
Before SkyWest filed to terminate service to the 29 cities in question, they first requested the DOT to allow them to reduce their frequencies to most of those cities - but the DOT said they can't because, per policy, only the individual communities can request changes to the contract.
NLINK wrote:Jshank83 wrote:NLINK wrote:
If CGI is a larger market, in 2020 they boarded 4,573 people total. With 12 flights per week that is 7.32 people per flight. Thats not what I call
a large market.
Not sure using numbers in the heart of the pandemic are the best to use.
Ok in 2019 CGI had 11,838 boardings. With 12 flights per week that is 18.97 people per flight. I still can say that is not a "large market". That is a 37.94% load factor on average which is poor.
FlyingElvii wrote:NLINK wrote:Jshank83 wrote:
Not sure using numbers in the heart of the pandemic are the best to use.
Ok in 2019 CGI had 11,838 boardings. With 12 flights per week that is 18.97 people per flight. I still can say that is not a "large market". That is a 37.94% load factor on average which is poor.
The real threshold for these markets is 10,000 pax per year, which CGI easily beat in 2019.
If I recall correctly, they were down line of Quincy or Paducah for part of that time as well?
FlyingElvii wrote:NLINK wrote:Jshank83 wrote:
Not sure using numbers in the heart of the pandemic are the best to use.
Ok in 2019 CGI had 11,838 boardings. With 12 flights per week that is 18.97 people per flight. I still can say that is not a "large market". That is a 37.94% load factor on average which is poor.
The real threshold for these markets is 10,000 pax per year, which CGI easily beat in 2019.
If I recall correctly, they were down line of Quincy or Paducah for part of that time as well?
hayzel777 wrote:In the SkyWest Q1 2022 Earnings Call, the termination of EAS was brought up during the business and financial outlook. SkyWest mentioned they will use Southern Airways (whom they have a minority stake in) to try and provide as much service as they can to small and medium sized cities.
btfarrwm wrote:hayzel777 wrote:In the SkyWest Q1 2022 Earnings Call, the termination of EAS was brought up during the business and financial outlook. SkyWest mentioned they will use Southern Airways (whom they have a minority stake in) to try and provide as much service as they can to small and medium sized cities.
As someone who lives and flies out of KPAH, a plan to continue “service” through Southern Airways using single-pilot aircraft seems like a non-starter. There would be no interline connectivity or convenient booking. It would be worse than driving to KBNA or KSTL.
btfarrwm wrote:hayzel777 wrote:In the SkyWest Q1 2022 Earnings Call, the termination of EAS was brought up during the business and financial outlook. SkyWest mentioned they will use Southern Airways (whom they have a minority stake in) to try and provide as much service as they can to small and medium sized cities.
As someone who lives and flies out of KPAH, a plan to continue “service” through Southern Airways using single-pilot aircraft seems like a non-starter. There would be no interline connectivity or convenient booking. It would be worse than driving to KBNA or KSTL.
btfarrwm wrote:hayzel777 wrote:In the SkyWest Q1 2022 Earnings Call, the termination of EAS was brought up during the business and financial outlook. SkyWest mentioned they will use Southern Airways (whom they have a minority stake in) to try and provide as much service as they can to small and medium sized cities.
As someone who lives and flies out of KPAH, a plan to continue “service” through Southern Airways using single-pilot aircraft seems like a non-starter. There would be no interline connectivity or convenient booking. It would be worse than driving to KBNA or KSTL.
hayzel777 wrote:In the SkyWest Q1 2022 Earnings Call, the termination of EAS was brought up during the business and financial outlook. SkyWest mentioned they will use Southern Airways (whom they have a minority stake in) to try and provide as much service as they can to small and medium sized cities.
jcwr56 wrote:hayzel777 wrote:In the SkyWest Q1 2022 Earnings Call, the termination of EAS was brought up during the business and financial outlook. SkyWest mentioned they will use Southern Airways (whom they have a minority stake in) to try and provide as much service as they can to small and medium sized cities.
I'm just thinking SkyWest at ORD shifting over to Southern. UA probably won't allow Southern to use gates, so they'll be shifted over to the EAS area off the end of L and eventually over to T5 Q3 of this year.
knope2001 wrote:Substantial news today which I don't think has appeared here yet:
1. Cape has filed to terminate Burlington and Quincy due to pilot shortages
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
2. Sioux City, Dodge City, and Hays have all petition the DoT to reduce their EAS service temporarily to 7x/week in conjunction with Skywest's cooperation.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0131-0136
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3502-0119
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
The 9-seat category is apparently not awash in pilots.
And maybe Skywest is willing to play ball in ways to hang on to many of their EAS markets in hopes of the pilot shortage easing down the road.
knope2001 wrote:The 9-seat category is apparently not awash in pilots.
MO11 wrote:UIN: https://downloads.regulations.gov/DOT-OST-2003-14492-0099/attachment_1.pdf
BRL: https://downloads.regulations.gov/DOT-OST-2001-8731-0140/attachment_1.pdfknope2001 wrote:The 9-seat category is apparently not awash in pilots.
No segment is immune from shortages.
knope2001 wrote:Substantial news today which I don't think has appeared here yet:
1. Cape has filed to terminate Burlington and Quincy due to pilot shortages
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
2. Sioux City, Dodge City, and Hays have all petition the DoT to reduce their EAS service temporarily to 7x/week in conjunction with Skywest's cooperation.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0131-0136
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3502-0119
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
The 9-seat category is apparently not awash in pilots.
And maybe Skywest is willing to play ball in ways to hang on to many of their EAS markets in hopes of the pilot shortage easing down the road.
heretothere wrote:knope2001 wrote:Substantial news today which I don't think has appeared here yet:
1. Cape has filed to terminate Burlington and Quincy due to pilot shortages
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
2. Sioux City, Dodge City, and Hays have all petition the DoT to reduce their EAS service temporarily to 7x/week in conjunction with Skywest's cooperation.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0131-0136
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3502-0119
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -3497-0110
The 9-seat category is apparently not awash in pilots.
And maybe Skywest is willing to play ball in ways to hang on to many of their EAS markets in hopes of the pilot shortage easing down the road.
That just leaves MBL for Cape at ORD. Seems safe to assume they’ve withdrawn their proposal for renewal there? Their current contract is up in Sept.
atrude777 wrote:heretothere wrote:That just leaves MBL for Cape at ORD. Seems safe to assume they’ve withdrawn their proposal for renewal there? Their current contract is up in Sept.
I was wondering, at this time they have not withdrawn the proposal. I have to imagine they would have at the same time they filed to withdraw from Quincy and Burlington?
bval wrote:atrude777 wrote:heretothere wrote:That just leaves MBL for Cape at ORD. Seems safe to assume they’ve withdrawn their proposal for renewal there? Their current contract is up in Sept.
I was wondering, at this time they have not withdrawn the proposal. I have to imagine they would have at the same time they filed to withdraw from Quincy and Burlington?
I have wondered if they weren't over extending themselves with these Midwest bases. Wonder if their services in Nashville are next. Given the pilot situation and the MX issues between teething problems on the 2012 and aging 402s I'm sure they're literally spread thin right now. Aircraft and crew replacements are a bit easier inside their traditional Northeast footprint.
WA707atMSP wrote:I (finally) flew Advanced Air ABQ-SVC-PHX, and I was very impressed. Here's a mini-trip report.
AN uses the ground level C gates (along with Boutique) at ABQ. These gates are just past the ticket counters, and outside security. It took me less than two minutes to walk from the curb of the ticketing level to AN's gate.
AN does not have inflight service, but about half an hour before departure, one of their employees wheeled out a cart with coffee, bottled water, and a basket of chips and granola bars. AN's aircraft also don't have lavatories, so ten minutes before boarding the gate agent reminded passengers to use the facilities in the terminal.
The Beech King Air was parked just a few feet from the gate, and the door was closed as soon as passengers were boarded. Passengers had to gate check their larger items, which were stored in a compartment behind the passenger seats, but were allowed to bring a small item like a backpack to hold in their laps while inflight. I was happy to see that AN doesn't use generic bag tags, they use pre printed tags with each passenger's destination code, like other airlines did 30 years ago.
After the door was closed, we had only a brief taxi to ABQ's Runway 8, and were cleared for an intersection takeoff as soon as we reached the runway. After rotation, we made a sharp right turn, and followed the Rio Grande south for a while. Although it was a little turbulent on departure, because the Beech King Air is pressurized, we climbed above the worst of the turbulence, to 20,000 feet. The King Air has large, comfortable leather seats, with large windows at eye level, so I was able to enjoy the view of the Rio Grande, and later on, the Gila Mountains. SVC is well south of both Silver City and the mountains, so after we were past the mountains, we turned right for a long straight in approach to SVC's runway 26.
Silver City's terminal is a small building with a few chairs, a ticket counter, and restrooms. The "land" side of the terminal looks like a maintenance building, but the "air" side is surprisingly nice; passengers walk under a metal arch that says "Grant County Airport", and there is a tall juniper tree between the ramp and the terminal entrance that provides much needed shade from New Mexico's hot sun.
After the aircraft was fuelled, through passengers from ABQ and SVC originating passengers were invited to board the onward leg to PHX. We had a quick taxi to Runway 26, and took off as soon as we reached the runway. After rotation, we followed the runway heading for a while past a large mine on the west side of Silver City. As with the earlier flight, we climbed to 20,000 feet, which was high enough that we were above most of the turbulence, but enough lower than the jets cruise at that we were able to get a nice view of the scenery enroute. We flew due west for much of the flight, until we were past the Gila Mountains of New Mexico and Arizona's Tortilla Mountains, before making a gentle northwest turn for PHX. Landings were out of the west at PHX, so we flew over much of the Valley of the Sun's sprawl, before lining up for Runway 7R on the south side of the airport complex.
After landing, we had only a brief taxi to the Jackson Jet Center FBO, which is used by AN for all of their PHX flights. Jackson Jet Center is a large two story building; we parked underneath a high canopy outside the FBO; the canopy keeps both aircraft and passengers cool.
I really enjoyed my flights on AN. Both flights were on time, and all of AN's employees in the air and on the ground seemed friendly. I know some of you enjoy flying on EAS airlines as much as I do, and I'd definitely encourage you to log AN when you have a chance.
bval wrote:atrude777 wrote:heretothere wrote:That just leaves MBL for Cape at ORD. Seems safe to assume they’ve withdrawn their proposal for renewal there? Their current contract is up in Sept.
I was wondering, at this time they have not withdrawn the proposal. I have to imagine they would have at the same time they filed to withdraw from Quincy and Burlington?
I have wondered if they weren't over extending themselves with these Midwest bases. Wonder if their services in Nashville are next. Given the pilot situation and the MX issues between teething problems on the 2012 and aging 402s I'm sure they're literally spread thin right now. Aircraft and crew replacements are a bit easier inside their traditional Northeast footprint.
atrude777 wrote:bval wrote:atrude777 wrote:
I was wondering, at this time they have not withdrawn the proposal. I have to imagine they would have at the same time they filed to withdraw from Quincy and Burlington?
I have wondered if they weren't over extending themselves with these Midwest bases. Wonder if their services in Nashville are next. Given the pilot situation and the MX issues between teething problems on the 2012 and aging 402s I'm sure they're literally spread thin right now. Aircraft and crew replacements are a bit easier inside their traditional Northeast footprint.
My Cape Air flight MWA-STL was cancelled due to Mechanical on the T2012.
It's happened 3 times now where MX cancelled when I am traveling.
I know it's happened more often even when not traveling.
It's unfortunate, and hopefully Cape Air can fix it.
I am wondering if MWA is next to be dropped. MWA is my hometown airport.
On Sundays Cape Air flies 2 to STL and 4 to BNA from MWA. Cape Air could stand to reduce MWA-BNA from 4 flights to 1 or 2 to help out unless it's really doing good.
Alex
atrude777 wrote:Fort Dodge, Iowa-FOD has submitted request to reduce from 12 to 7 Weekly.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... 10682-0263
Butte, Montana-BUT has submitted to request to reduce from 12 to 7 Weekly.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0136-0058
Alex
atrude777 wrote:Fort Dodge, Iowa-FOD has submitted request to reduce from 12 to 7 Weekly.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... 10682-0263
Butte, Montana-BTM has submitted to request to reduce from 12 to 7 Weekly.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0136-0058
Alex
sprxUSA wrote:atrude777 wrote:Fort Dodge, Iowa-FOD has submitted request to reduce from 12 to 7 Weekly.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... 10682-0263
Butte, Montana-BUT has submitted to request to reduce from 12 to 7 Weekly.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DO ... -0136-0058
Alex
Butte, MT is BTM. .Seems logical they stay with the SLC link.
sprxUSA wrote:I lol'd when I saw 'BUT'
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:WA707atMSP wrote:I (finally) flew Advanced Air ABQ-SVC-PHX, and I was very impressed. Here's a mini-trip report.
AN uses the ground level C gates (along with Boutique) at ABQ. These gates are just past the ticket counters, and outside security. It took me less than two minutes to walk from the curb of the ticketing level to AN's gate.
AN does not have inflight service, but about half an hour before departure, one of their employees wheeled out a cart with coffee, bottled water, and a basket of chips and granola bars. AN's aircraft also don't have lavatories, so ten minutes before boarding the gate agent reminded passengers to use the facilities in the terminal.
The Beech King Air was parked just a few feet from the gate, and the door was closed as soon as passengers were boarded. Passengers had to gate check their larger items, which were stored in a compartment behind the passenger seats, but were allowed to bring a small item like a backpack to hold in their laps while inflight. I was happy to see that AN doesn't use generic bag tags, they use pre printed tags with each passenger's destination code, like other airlines did 30 years ago.
After the door was closed, we had only a brief taxi to ABQ's Runway 8, and were cleared for an intersection takeoff as soon as we reached the runway. After rotation, we made a sharp right turn, and followed the Rio Grande south for a while. Although it was a little turbulent on departure, because the Beech King Air is pressurized, we climbed above the worst of the turbulence, to 20,000 feet. The King Air has large, comfortable leather seats, with large windows at eye level, so I was able to enjoy the view of the Rio Grande, and later on, the Gila Mountains. SVC is well south of both Silver City and the mountains, so after we were past the mountains, we turned right for a long straight in approach to SVC's runway 26.
Silver City's terminal is a small building with a few chairs, a ticket counter, and restrooms. The "land" side of the terminal looks like a maintenance building, but the "air" side is surprisingly nice; passengers walk under a metal arch that says "Grant County Airport", and there is a tall juniper tree between the ramp and the terminal entrance that provides much needed shade from New Mexico's hot sun.
After the aircraft was fuelled, through passengers from ABQ and SVC originating passengers were invited to board the onward leg to PHX. We had a quick taxi to Runway 26, and took off as soon as we reached the runway. After rotation, we followed the runway heading for a while past a large mine on the west side of Silver City. As with the earlier flight, we climbed to 20,000 feet, which was high enough that we were above most of the turbulence, but enough lower than the jets cruise at that we were able to get a nice view of the scenery enroute. We flew due west for much of the flight, until we were past the Gila Mountains of New Mexico and Arizona's Tortilla Mountains, before making a gentle northwest turn for PHX. Landings were out of the west at PHX, so we flew over much of the Valley of the Sun's sprawl, before lining up for Runway 7R on the south side of the airport complex.
After landing, we had only a brief taxi to the Jackson Jet Center FBO, which is used by AN for all of their PHX flights. Jackson Jet Center is a large two story building; we parked underneath a high canopy outside the FBO; the canopy keeps both aircraft and passengers cool.
I really enjoyed my flights on AN. Both flights were on time, and all of AN's employees in the air and on the ground seemed friendly. I know some of you enjoy flying on EAS airlines as much as I do, and I'd definitely encourage you to log AN when you have a chance.
I have flown them before, one of the first EAS Cities that I visited (I am now at 41). I rode them from ABQ all the way to Hawthorne which isn’t EAS, but it’s how they get their planes to the SVC network and their base on the west coast.
Frontier14 wrote:Unless I am mistaken, there has been no word in regards to the new carrier at CEZ (Cortez, CO). DOT asked for community comments months ago. Anyone heard why the delay in announcing whether Southern Express or Denver Air has not been selected?
Frontier 14
joeblow10 wrote:Interested to see what the DOT does in cities where OO rebid but a competitor like KG did as well. I would imagine the DOT wouldn’t have too much sympathy for Skywest given their notice of intent to terminate after trying to reduce/change frequency in the first place… but then again, who knows.
I find it rather distasteful they say they claim they can’t staff the flights, but turn right around and rebid on places like HYS (albeit, at a lower frequency). Who’s to say the same problem won’t exist in 6-12 months where they can’t staff (if that’s the real reason) 7x a week instead of 12x.
It feels like staffing is a genuine issue, but that they may have realized 12x on a CR2 into these places is a whole lot of capacity that could be better used elsewhere
BangersAndMash wrote:The EAS award for PBG is out. Contour with 12x weekly to PHL is confirmed.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/DOT-OST-2003-14783-0276
joeblow10 wrote:Interested to see what the DOT does in cities where OO rebid but a competitor like KG did as well. I would imagine the DOT wouldn’t have too much sympathy for Skywest given their notice of intent to terminate after trying to reduce/change frequency in the first place… but then again, who knows.
I find it rather distasteful they say they claim they can’t staff the flights, but turn right around and rebid on places like HYS (albeit, at a lower frequency). Who’s to say the same problem won’t exist in 6-12 months where they can’t staff (if that’s the real reason) 7x a week instead of 12x.
It feels like staffing is a genuine issue, but that they may have realized 12x on a CR2 into these places is a whole lot of capacity that could be better used elsewhere
32andBelow wrote:joeblow10 wrote:Interested to see what the DOT does in cities where OO rebid but a competitor like KG did as well. I would imagine the DOT wouldn’t have too much sympathy for Skywest given their notice of intent to terminate after trying to reduce/change frequency in the first place… but then again, who knows.
I find it rather distasteful they say they claim they can’t staff the flights, but turn right around and rebid on places like HYS (albeit, at a lower frequency). Who’s to say the same problem won’t exist in 6-12 months where they can’t staff (if that’s the real reason) 7x a week instead of 12x.
It feels like staffing is a genuine issue, but that they may have realized 12x on a CR2 into these places is a whole lot of capacity that could be better used elsewhere
Everyone is going to have staffing problems. SkyWest will be able to stay better than any of these tiny EAS carriers
vfw614 wrote:Am I correct that Merced (to LAS, LAX) is currently operated with a King Air and no longer with a PC12?
BangersAndMash wrote:2 year contract, on PC-12, 18x weekly to PHX. Modest increase in subsidy to c. $2M a year.
vfw614 wrote:Am I correct that Merced (to LAS, LAX) is currently operated with a King Air and no longer with a PC12?