Porter Airlines is strengthening its route network from
Billy Bishop Airport. Non-stop service to Halifax will begin April 7, featuring up to three daily roundtrips in the summer. Service to Fredericton and Moncton will start May 5, with one daily year-round non-stop flight each.

Typically, Porter has had a huge amount of activity between Billy Bishop and in Ottawa and Montreal. So this greatly opens up reach from Billy Bishop airport to Atlantic Canada. Hopefully this proves successful for them. I think with the pandemic gives them a chance to try new routes or markets like this and confirm that they're viable and then keep them going over the long term, Best of luck to them.

Would love to see more US expansion. Toronto is such a great city IMO. And being able to avoid YYZ is also a massive plus.

Cleveland BKL - just across the lake would be perfect. AC owns the route right now and its the bigger airports on both ends.

I'd expect a Porter announcement for it's new planes soon, if it's set to launch this summer.

cirrusdragoon wrote:

Porter Airlines is strengthening its route network from
Billy Bishop Airport. Non-stop service to Halifax will begin April 7, featuring up to three daily roundtrips in the summer. Service to Fredericton and Moncton will start May 5, with one daily year-round non-stop flight each.

Typically, Porter has had a huge amount of activity between Billy Bishop and in Ottawa and Montreal. So this greatly opens up reach from Billy Bishop airport to Atlantic Canada. Hopefully this proves successful for them. I think with the pandemic gives them a chance to try new routes or markets like this and confirm that they're viable and then keep them going over the long term, Best of luck to them.

I had thought the runways at YTZ limited range on D400 operations necessitating flights through YOW or YUL. If that is still valid, will these flights operate with blocked seats?

IceCream wrote:

I'd expect a Porter announcement for it's new planes soon, if it's set to launch this summer.

When do the E2s begin to show?

yyztpa2 wrote:

cirrusdragoon wrote:

Porter Airlines is strengthening its route network from
Billy Bishop Airport. Non-stop service to Halifax will begin April 7, featuring up to three daily roundtrips in the summer. Service to Fredericton and Moncton will start May 5, with one daily year-round non-stop flight each.

Typically, Porter has had a huge amount of activity between Billy Bishop and in Ottawa and Montreal. So this greatly opens up reach from Billy Bishop airport to Atlantic Canada. Hopefully this proves successful for them. I think with the pandemic gives them a chance to try new routes or markets like this and confirm that they're viable and then keep them going over the long term, Best of luck to them.

I had thought the runways at YTZ limited range on D400 operations necessitating flights through YOW or YUL. If that is still valid, will these flights operate with blocked seats?

IceCream wrote:

I'd expect a Porter announcement for it's new planes soon, if it's set to launch this summer.

When do the E2s begin to show?

I believe that the E2's are set to be delivered starting Mid 2022, so probably June-July? So maybe a month or so before announcements?

I had the same thought on flying direct YTZ-YHZ, I thought they had to fly load restricted with the short runway at YTZ?

dr1980 wrote:

I had the same thought on flying direct YTZ-YHZ, I thought they had to fly load restricted with the short runway at YTZ?

I thought Porter flew to MLB from YTZ, but I was mistaken, their flight to MLB was from Windsor and Ottowa.

acos24 wrote:

dr1980 wrote:

I had the same thought on flying direct YTZ-YHZ, I thought they had to fly load restricted with the short runway at YTZ?

I thought Porter flew to MLB from YTZ, but I was mistaken, their flight to MLB was from Windsor and Ottowa.

Capped at 55 I believe. And they did operate YTZ-MLB, they added YOW/YQG in later seasons.

YTZ-YHZ used to run over Xmas, capped at 62 IIRC.

Service has been available on all these routes previously, albeit with a stop in YOW.

I guess since they have to pay for all the slots, they may as well run them from YTZ even if they have to limit the payload. The short runway will do them no favours payload wise in the peak summer period.

I found a story on French seat manufacturer Expliseat's web page dated August 31, 2021 that Porter has refurbished all 29 Dash 8-400 with the new Expliseat TiSeat E2, a slimline seat that will "reduce aircraft weight with approximately 1,000 lbs, annual fuel burn will be approximately reduced by 500,000 litres and corresponding CO2 emissions will be reduced approximately by 1,200 metric tons". Source: www.expliseat.com

Porter's Dash 8-400 now has 78 seats at 30 inch pitch, but the new seats adds about 2 inches of knee room due to the slim design. They used to have 74 seats with the old style seats.

Good on Porter, the Dash 8-400 is a great aircraft, nice to see they are investing in them.

I've often wondered about adding YWG. If non-stop isn't possible, they could always tag on to YQT. Would love to see them headed West...

Would PD be willing to take up some extra Q's ? A fair bit of relatively new Q's are stored in Europe.

heathrow wrote:

I've often wondered about adding YWG. If non-stop isn't possible, they could always tag on to YQT. Would love to see them headed West...

This might be something they do with their E2 from YYZ.
Another point, since they intend to build a hub service out of YYZ with the E2s, how much of the current YTZ hubbed service to regional markets might move to YYZ? The YTZ flights to NE Ontario have really been trimmed back during COVID restart and don't show re-establishing to the same levels on the schedules looking through the summer of 2022. You would also need to question if restricted capacity flight from YTZ to YHZ are in the longer term thinking once the E2s begin to show. They have more E2s on order and option than they currently have D400.

With Flair and Lynx ramping up in Canada I wish Porter luck. I wonder how the E-2's will stack up against AC's A-220's?

I am wondering if we will see Porter being acquired by Air Canada?

Aresxerexade wrote:

I am wondering if we will see Porter being acquired by Air Canada?

Not likely.

does anyone think porter will add PVD?

jvlmd81 wrote:

does anyone think porter will add PVD?

I’d say it’s very unlikely, especially considering Porter’s previous poor experiences with secondary US cities (BTV, PIT).

And keep in mind that the flights to the U.S. from YTZ will clear Customs at their destination (at least until some day in the future that there is pre-clearance at YTZ). That's why we don't see LGA or DCA ex YTZ. PVD is a great idea since not everyone heading that way is actually going to BOS. And this year there will be AA, AC, DL, WS and PD on the Toronto-Boston run. The mention of BKL in Cleveland is a great idea: but because of Customs it would need to be CLE. (CLE is easily connected downtown by the train anyways.) AC has such high fares on the Toronto Cleveland route and it's an awful 7 hr drive most of the time.

russyyz wrote:

And keep in mind that the flights to the U.S. from YTZ will clear Customs at their destination (at least until some day in the future that there is pre-clearance at YTZ). That's why we don't see LGA or DCA ex YTZ. PVD is a great idea since not everyone heading that way is actually going to BOS. And this year there will be AA, AC, DL, WS and PD on the Toronto-Boston run. The mention of BKL in Cleveland is a great idea: but because of Customs it would need to be CLE. (CLE is easily connected downtown by the train anyways.) AC has such high fares on the Toronto Cleveland route and it's an awful 7 hr drive most of the time.

Pre-clearance expected in 2023
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesta ... affic.html

Skywatcher wrote:

With Flair and Lynx ramping up in Canada I wish Porter luck. I wonder how the E-2's will stack up against AC's A-220's?

On a CASM basis, or passenger experience basis?

Looks like Porter Airlines has agreed to codesharing agreement with Air Transat & starting this Summer 2022 season in Canada.

The first phase of the agreement will focus on connecting Porter's bases at Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (YTZ) and Halifax-Stanfield (YHZ) to Air Transat's hub at Montreal-Trudeau (YUL), providing customers of both carriers with a greater selection of connecting flights in Canada, the U.S. and internationally.

"We are very excited to team up with Porter in an important partnership that will contribute to the strengthening of our network and reinforce our leadership in our main markets," said Transat President and CEO Annick Guérard. "This promising agreement brings together two award-winning, traveller-centric brands whose flight schedules are complementary, and creates great opportunities for customers who are looking for quality and effortless travel. By providing better connectivity, it will not only enhance our destination offering for our Canadian and international customers, but also save them time and make their lives easier."

"This code-sharing agreement with Air Transat nicely complements our own growth plans," said Michael Deluce, president and CEO, Porter Airlines. "The introduction of seamless access to international markets, where Air Transat has made its mark, is an especially great benefit for our passengers. The overall combination of new routes and finding a partner that shares our dedication to delivering a great travel experience is a perfect fit."

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 69271.html

Porter Airlines codesharing agreement with Air Transat & starting this Summer 2022 season in Canada should be interesting 1 as it help both airlines & passengers that fly with them✅.

Hockeyfan125 wrote:

Porter Airlines codesharing agreement with Air Transat & starting this Summer 2022 season in Canada should be interesting 1 as it help both airlines & passengers that fly with them✅.

Thanks for this information. Looks like they're doing a codeshare with AT that's similar to the one with WS.

Hockeyfan125 wrote:

Looks like Porter Airlines has agreed to codesharing agreement with Air Transat & starting this Summer 2022 season in Canada.

The first phase of the agreement will focus on connecting Porter's bases at Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (YTZ) and Halifax-Stanfield (YHZ) to Air Transat's hub at Montreal-Trudeau (YUL), providing customers of both carriers with a greater selection of connecting flights in Canada, the U.S. and internationally.

"We are very excited to team up with Porter in an important partnership that will contribute to the strengthening of our network and reinforce our leadership in our main markets," said Transat President and CEO Annick Guérard. "This promising agreement brings together two award-winning, traveller-centric brands whose flight schedules are complementary, and creates great opportunities for customers who are looking for quality and effortless travel. By providing better connectivity, it will not only enhance our destination offering for our Canadian and international customers, but also save them time and make their lives easier."

"This code-sharing agreement with Air Transat nicely complements our own growth plans," said Michael Deluce, president and CEO, Porter Airlines. "The introduction of seamless access to international markets, where Air Transat has made its mark, is an especially great benefit for our passengers. The overall combination of new routes and finding a partner that shares our dedication to delivering a great travel experience is a perfect fit."

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/a ... 69271.html

A smart move! Nice to see collaboration amongst Canadian carriers.

aamd11 wrote:

acos24 wrote:

dr1980 wrote:

I had the same thought on flying direct YTZ-YHZ, I thought they had to fly load restricted with the short runway at YTZ?

I thought Porter flew to MLB from YTZ, but I was mistaken, their flight to MLB was from Windsor and Ottowa.

Capped at 55 I believe. And they did operate YTZ-MLB, they added YOW/YQG in later seasons.

YTZ-YHZ used to run over Xmas, capped at 62 IIRC.

Service has been available on all these routes previously, albeit with a stop in YOW.

I guess since they have to pay for all the slots, they may as well run them from YTZ even if they have to limit the payload. The short runway will do them no favours payload wise in the peak summer period.

That’s correct about MLB.

In the case of the new Maritimes-YTZ, I doubt they’ll be load restricted all that much on the inbound.

All the 1-stops will continue, but YOW-YQM that was traditionally pre-pandemic 2x daily in summer will only be 1x daily this summer. As such, YQM will see no additional capacity…slightly reduced factoring in the YTZ-YQM load restrictions.

I’d like to see them add Detroit, maybe split with Windsor 4 weekly Detroit 3 weekly Windsor? Not sure what LF would be like against Delta and AC. Maybe after pre clearance. PVD seems like a good add to me.

iluvairplanes99 wrote:

I’d like to see them add Detroit, maybe split with Windsor 4 weekly Detroit 3 weekly Windsor? Not sure what LF would be like against Delta and AC. Maybe after pre clearance. PVD seems like a good add to me.

I feel like Detroit could work at 3x weekly.

IceCream wrote:

iluvairplanes99 wrote:

I’d like to see them add Detroit, maybe split with Windsor 4 weekly Detroit 3 weekly Windsor? Not sure what LF would be like against Delta and AC. Maybe after pre clearance. PVD seems like a good add to me.

I feel like Detroit could work at 3x weekly.

No point flying to DTW (unless they someday interline or codeshare with DL - highly unlikely) when pre-pandemic PD were at YQG up to 4x daily. PD is probably a future AA codeshare partner. Also, Detroit's a biz market, so anything less than 2x daily is pointless...which is a lot of capacity for not a lot of O&D because a lot of the O&D uses Windsor for the usually cheaper fares. I have family in Detroit and have often used YQG more than DTW to visit them...whenever I don't want the 10 hour drive from YOW. Now that DL has suspended YOW indefinitely, it makes YQG and PD's same-plane 1-stops all the more appealing now that travelling is starting to return.

I didn't see this previously mentioned in the thread, but PD quietly dropped YSJ as a destination. It was originally delayed to relaunch and now removed entirely. I'm guessing both Flair and Swoop arriving on scene to YSJ scared them off.

On a separate note, plans have been released to build a new Romeo taxiway at YOW which is thought to be for the construction of Porter's rumoured E95 maintenance base.

Dominion301 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

iluvairplanes99 wrote:

I’d like to see them add Detroit, maybe split with Windsor 4 weekly Detroit 3 weekly Windsor? Not sure what LF would be like against Delta and AC. Maybe after pre clearance. PVD seems like a good add to me.

I feel like Detroit could work at 3x weekly.

No point flying to DTW (unless they someday interline or codeshare with DL - highly unlikely) when pre-pandemic PD were at YQG up to 4x daily. PD is probably a future AA codeshare partner. Also, Detroit's a biz market, so anything less than 2x daily is pointless...which is a lot of capacity for not a lot of O&D because a lot of the O&D uses Windsor for the usually cheaper fares. I have family in Detroit and have often used YQG more than DTW to visit them...whenever I don't want the 10 hour drive from YOW. Now that DL has suspended YOW indefinitely, it makes YQG and PD's same-plane 1-stops all the more appealing now that travelling is starting to return.

I didn't see this previously mentioned in the thread, but PD quietly dropped YSJ as a destination. It was originally delayed to relaunch and now removed entirely. I'm guessing both Flair and Swoop arriving on scene to YSJ scared them off.

On a separate note, plans have been released to build a new Romeo taxiway at YOW which is thought to be for the construction of Porter's rumoured E95 maintenance base.

Fair point, probably not worth it then! I was a little surprised YSJ was dropped though.

IceCream wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

I feel like Detroit could work at 3x weekly.

No point flying to DTW (unless they someday interline or codeshare with DL - highly unlikely) when pre-pandemic PD were at YQG up to 4x daily. PD is probably a future AA codeshare partner. Also, Detroit's a biz market, so anything less than 2x daily is pointless...which is a lot of capacity for not a lot of O&D because a lot of the O&D uses Windsor for the usually cheaper fares. I have family in Detroit and have often used YQG more than DTW to visit them...whenever I don't want the 10 hour drive from YOW. Now that DL has suspended YOW indefinitely, it makes YQG and PD's same-plane 1-stops all the more appealing now that travelling is starting to return.

I didn't see this previously mentioned in the thread, but PD quietly dropped YSJ as a destination. It was originally delayed to relaunch and now removed entirely. I'm guessing both Flair and Swoop arriving on scene to YSJ scared them off.

On a separate note, plans have been released to build a new Romeo taxiway at YOW which is thought to be for the construction of Porter's rumoured E95 maintenance base.

Fair point, probably not worth it then! I was a little surprised YSJ was dropped though.

So was I about YSJ.

I hope that Porter would fly to both SEA and PDX, and partner with AS, for flights to YYZ (in competition with AC).

Does anyone have any info on the serial number for their first E2? And any updates on their potential routes with the type?

Dominion301 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

iluvairplanes99 wrote:

I’d like to see them add Detroit, maybe split with Windsor 4 weekly Detroit 3 weekly Windsor? Not sure what LF would be like against Delta and AC. Maybe after pre clearance. PVD seems like a good add to me.

I feel like Detroit could work at 3x weekly.

No point flying to DTW (unless they someday interline or codeshare with DL - highly unlikely) when pre-pandemic PD were at YQG up to 4x daily. PD is probably a future AA codeshare partner. Also, Detroit's a biz market, so anything less than 2x daily is pointless...which is a lot of capacity for not a lot of O&D because a lot of the O&D uses Windsor for the usually cheaper fares. I have family in Detroit and have often used YQG more than DTW to visit them...whenever I don't want the 10 hour drive from YOW. Now that DL has suspended YOW indefinitely, it makes YQG and PD's same-plane 1-stops all the more appealing now that travelling is starting to return.

I didn't see this previously mentioned in the thread, but PD quietly dropped YSJ as a destination. It was originally delayed to relaunch and now removed entirely. I'm guessing both Flair and Swoop arriving on scene to YSJ scared them off.

On a separate note, plans have been released to build a new Romeo taxiway at YOW which is thought to be for the construction of Porter's rumoured E95 maintenance base.

Maybe I'm missing it on the map, but where will the new Romeo taxiway be?

yhu wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

IceCream wrote:

I feel like Detroit could work at 3x weekly.

No point flying to DTW (unless they someday interline or codeshare with DL - highly unlikely) when pre-pandemic PD were at YQG up to 4x daily. PD is probably a future AA codeshare partner. Also, Detroit's a biz market, so anything less than 2x daily is pointless...which is a lot of capacity for not a lot of O&D because a lot of the O&D uses Windsor for the usually cheaper fares. I have family in Detroit and have often used YQG more than DTW to visit them...whenever I don't want the 10 hour drive from YOW. Now that DL has suspended YOW indefinitely, it makes YQG and PD's same-plane 1-stops all the more appealing now that travelling is starting to return.

I didn't see this previously mentioned in the thread, but PD quietly dropped YSJ as a destination. It was originally delayed to relaunch and now removed entirely. I'm guessing both Flair and Swoop arriving on scene to YSJ scared them off.

On a separate note, plans have been released to build a new Romeo taxiway at YOW which is thought to be for the construction of Porter's rumoured E95 maintenance base.

Maybe I'm missing it on the map, but where will the new Romeo taxiway be?

That dotted area over near taxiway Quebec as I understand it. The Airport Authority confirmed that a new government Canada Reception Centre to replace the 1950s era hangar that will allow for future northward terminal expansion and “a hangar for an unnamed private client” and possibly a new cargo building are all planned for the Romeo taxiway/apron.

Very eager to find out Porter's expansion plans before I book christmas flights. Any updates? Are they going to try and integrate their YYZ network with their YTZ network? Shuttle or something?

I presume YVR will be one of the first destinations with the 195. They're hiring a YVR Base Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3209315475

So the 195s will fly from Billy Bishop to YVR? Any other potential cities?

seat1a wrote:

So the 195s will fly from Billy Bishop to YVR? Any other potential cities?

No , they will fly from YYZ Pearson

cirrusdragoon wrote:

seat1a wrote:

So the 195s will fly from Billy Bishop to YVR? Any other potential cities?

No , they will fly from YYZ Pearson

Got it, thank you.

Speedalive wrote:

I presume YVR will be one of the first destinations with the 195. They're hiring a YVR Base Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3209315475

I wonder if a Q400 operation is planned out of YVR or would it be a suicide mission against AC & WS

INFINITI329 wrote:

Speedalive wrote:

I presume YVR will be one of the first destinations with the 195. They're hiring a YVR Base Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3209315475

I wonder if a Q400 operation is planned out of YVR or would it be a suicide mission against AC & WS

If they're smart, they'll keep to the East of the country, at least initially. AC is going to be quite the handful as it is at YYZ. One 800lbs gorilla is quite enough, don't you think?

With Q3 at mid point, there have been no hints of first deliveries for the E2 nor of service launch .....which had been previouly relayed as planned for second half 2022.

Speedalive wrote:

I presume YVR will be one of the first destinations with the 195. They're hiring a YVR Base Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3209315475

Makes sense. With 3 aircraft to start, they could launch 3 daily YYZ, 1-2 daily each to YOW and YUL (wouldn't even have to worry about WS for the latter two, lol) and start with a semi-critical mass at YVR. Depending on timings they could also then start selling connections at YOW to the Maritimes as well as YVR-YUL-YHZ.

Dominion301 wrote:

Speedalive wrote:

I presume YVR will be one of the first destinations with the 195. They're hiring a YVR Base Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3209315475

Makes sense. With 3 aircraft to start, they could launch 3 daily YYZ, 1-2 daily each to YOW and YUL (wouldn't even have to worry about WS for the latter two, lol) and start with a semi-critical mass at YVR. Depending on timings they could also then start selling connections at YOW to the Maritimes as well as YVR-YUL-YHZ.

From my understanding, their initial E95 pilot base is YYZ, so YYZ-YVR is as safe of a bet as it gets. YOW is largely treated like a busy regional airport by AC with the vast majority of flying going to their hubs (same with WS), whereas PD has built a decent second hub there, so I could definitely see YVR-YOW being added early on. YVR-YUL could potentially work too, depending on PD's priorities (making a name for themselves out west with three new routes out of YVR, or boosting their presence in the east). They would potentially benefit from the TS codeshare on that route if TS is spilling and needs some added "friendly" capacity via their codeshare. I do wonder if they will seek to boost their market share on the YTO-YOW-YUL triangle early on or not though.

First E195-E2 to be delivered to PORTER AIRLINES,
msn 19020067.

PORTER AIRLINES has placed a firm order for
30 units with option for 50 more.

Recently at FIA 2022 added 20 more units,
totaling 50 firm orders and 50 purchase options.

Picture source: https://aeroin.net/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 68x512.jpg

Am I missing something or does it seem insane to add 50 to 100 mid-sized jet aircraft to the Canadian market at this time. I just can't see it working. What niche isn't already covered other than scraps here and there? The E-195 itself is struggling to be a viable option as a competitive airframe as well.
I'm very skeptical of their plan of action. Looks like suicide to me.

EMBSPBR wrote:

First E195-E2 to be delivered to PORTER AIRLINES,
msn 19020067.

PORTER AIRLINES has placed a firm order for
30 units with option for 50 more.

Recently at FIA 2022 added 20 more units,
totaling 50 firm orders and 50 purchase options.

Picture source: https://aeroin.net/wp-content/uploads/2 ... 68x512.jpg

All known facts. Any idea of when for first delivery?

Skywatcher wrote:

Am I missing something or does it seem insane to add 50 to 100 mid-sized jet aircraft to the Canadian market at this time. I just can't see it working. What niche isn't already covered other than scraps here and there? The E-195 itself is struggling to be a viable option as a competitive airframe as well.
I'm very skeptical of their plan of action. Looks like suicide to me.

I'll get my popcorn ready for the show. The E-195 is a great aircraft, just a matter of picking the correct markets to operate the aircraft. YYZ - YVR if chosen as a route will be interesting to watch as AC has multiple B773, B77L and B789 on the same route. YUL has B789 and A333 to YVR. YOW has as many as 3 A321 on the route to YVR. I'm not going to even mention the WS presence and ULCC's also on the YYZ - YVR route. I'm not suggesting PD will not be successful, they just need to pick their routes wisely, especially with the WS draw-down in eastern Canada creating an opening and opportunity.

Speedalive wrote:

Dominion301 wrote:

Speedalive wrote:

I presume YVR will be one of the first destinations with the 195. They're hiring a YVR Base Engineer: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3209315475

Makes sense. With 3 aircraft to start, they could launch 3 daily YYZ, 1-2 daily each to YOW and YUL (wouldn't even have to worry about WS for the latter two, lol) and start with a semi-critical mass at YVR. Depending on timings they could also then start selling connections at YOW to the Maritimes as well as YVR-YUL-YHZ.

From my understanding, their initial E95 pilot base is YYZ, so YYZ-YVR is as safe of a bet as it gets. YOW is largely treated like a busy regional airport by AC with the vast majority of flying going to their hubs (same with WS), whereas PD has built a decent second hub there, so I could definitely see YVR-YOW being added early on. YVR-YUL could potentially work too, depending on PD's priorities (making a name for themselves out west with three new routes out of YVR, or boosting their presence in the east). They would potentially benefit from the TS codeshare on that route if TS is spilling and needs some added "friendly" capacity via their codeshare. I do wonder if they will seek to boost their market share on the YTO-YOW-YUL triangle early on or not though.

PD have stated since the very beginning that they will have four jet bases: YYZ, YOW, YUL & YHZ, but it makes complete sense to start with YYZ first, especially since it'll be a year before they have enough frames to set up a hub. YOW being the connecting hub with focussing on YYZ makes a lot of sense. YOW's also got the ability to be dual Dash 8 & E95 ops depending on the destination or time of day. With WS cutting back to 4-5 daily on each of the eastern triangle routes, there's definitely an opportunity for a second high frequency competitor to AC on YYZ. Since PD's return, they seem to really be sticking it to AC on the YTZ routes by taking advantage of AC's temporary cutbacks.