Welcome to Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related Discussion Thread.

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how far SU operation affected?

With DL ending their codeshare agreement with SU, it’ll be interesting to see if SkyTeam drops SU completely from the alliance. Also you have to wonder if S7 will stay in OneWorld.

Unconfirmed reports the world’s only AN-225 has been destroyed following hostilities at Hostomel airport. The aircraft was situated at the airport at the time of the attack. There are other Antonov aircraft also located there. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/199 ... l-airport/

If true, a real loss. I had a hope to see it one day.

This guy has some interesting thoughts: https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/14 ... 9610150921

"We are hearing that in addition to the world's only An-225, several An-124s were also destroyed in the conflict already. "
"Flexport's research team is tracking down all the remaining An-124s in the world to determine their location and status but it seems only a matter of weeks before even the ones not in Ukraine presently are removed from service for maintenance / safety reasons."

2 Questions - Is he correct? Will the loss of these aircraft (if verified) negatively impact the freight market? Could the damage to the Anotov airport facilities affect spares and maintenence for the remainder AN124s that are still flying?

Geomap

With sanctions now in place presume Russian airlines will now not be able to source spare parts for either Boeing/Airbus aircraft. How long before this starts to impact on operations ?

Iran managed to keep its Boeing aircraft flying for decades after US sanctions
Russia has far more aviation resources than Iran. It makes things more difficult for Russia, but certainly not impossible

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/stat ... K4w8kpAAAA

Credible OSInt guy says An-225 may be destroyed, for real this time.

sturmovik wrote:

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497876663115341827?cxt=HHwWhoCz5fK4w8kpAAAA

Credible OSInt guy says An-225 may be destroyed, for real this time.

Has the 2nd unbuilt airframe also been destroyed?

Given the fact that the An-225 does a large amount of its flying in support of global humanitarian aid, might as well drop bombs on a refugee camp or the Red Cross...really hope this isn't the case...

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

What will happen to the Russians stranded on vacation in PUJ or CUN? How will they return back home?

debonair wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

What will happen to the Russians stranded on vacation in PUJ or CUN? How will they return back home?

Well they might have to the Pacific route. Maybe Russia will repatriate or the will have use airlines and countries that so far have not banned Russian aircraft or flying to Russia.

I can't find a quote from Antonov, but several outlets are now reporting that Antonov themselves has said that the An-225 is safe...again.

debonair wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

What will happen to the Russians stranded on vacation in PUJ or CUN? How will they return back home?

I'd imagine if there are seriously plane loads of Russian travelers stuck aboard repatriation flights will be allowed. At the end of the day, regardless of politics, they are civilians and victims as much as anyone else in those circumstances.

debonair wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

What will happen to the Russians stranded on vacation in PUJ or CUN? How will they return back home?

There should be plenty of options with the middle east carriers...

AFL2300 SVO-FRA turning back moments before entering Gulf of Finland

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFL2300/2af56920

Chasensfo wrote:

I can't find a quote from Antonov, but several outlets are now reporting that Antonov themselves has said that the An-225 is safe...again.

debonair wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

What will happen to the Russians stranded on vacation in PUJ or CUN? How will they return back home?

I'd imagine if there are seriously plane loads of Russian travelers stuck aboard repatriation flights will be allowed. At the end of the day, regardless of politics, they are civilians and victims as much as anyone else in those circumstances.

The Antonov Company twitter account said this when asked about the An-225:

https://twitter.com/AntonovCompany/stat ... 4896516100

Slightly promising, but then again maybe they just don't know. Also that's not the account of Antonov Airlines, who are the actual operator of the planes.

That’s very ominous. I know it’s a plane and less important than the lives of those Ukrainian people but that plane is an important piece of aviation heritage.

If only it could be flown out. I find it hard to believe it didn’t get moved before all this happened.

URAL U61897 A21N Moscow Zhukovsky to Funchal, Portugal has turned back

https://www.flightradar24.com/SVR1897/2af56cef

cpd wrote:

That’s very ominous. I know it’s a plane and less important than the lives of those Ukrainian people but that plane is an important piece of aviation heritage.

If only it could be flown out.

Also not to mention the types of cargo it carries. Was almost a semi-regular visitor here in Australia

Flanker7 wrote:

debonair wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

What will happen to the Russians stranded on vacation in PUJ or CUN? How will they return back home?

Well they might have to the Pacific route. Maybe Russia will repatriate or the will have use airlines and countries that so far have not banned Russian aircraft or flying to Russia.

SU flight in progress SVO-CUN.

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFL158/2af50ac8

Not sure of the normal routing, but is currently over Greenland, having given Western Europe a wide berth.

SU124 is en route to JFK. Non ban from the US so far?
https://fr24.com/AFL124/2af5912d

SU2628 738 SVO to BRU is turning back to SVO
SU2458 321 SVO to CDG is turning back to SVO
SU6632 SU9 ZAG Zagreb to LED is diverting to AER (Sochi)
RU793 74N KJA Krasnoyarsk to LEJ Leipzig was turned away by Finnish ATC and diverted to DME

ro1960 wrote:

SU124 is en route to JFK. Non ban from the US so far?
https://fr24.com/AFL124/2af5912d

Yes, rather surprising that USA hasn’t banned Aeroflot. What are they waiting for?

Transport Minister of Canada closes Canadian Airspace to Russian aircraft effective immediately. There is currently one Aeroflot aircraft in Canadian airspace
https://twitter.com/OmarAlghabra/status ... 0982038532

Will be interesting to see how the Russians keep Kalinigrad accessible.Currently an UT AIr flight is en route from LED, approaching Kalinigrad. It passed through Finnish airspace and pretty close to Gotland.

https://www.flightradar24.com/UTA217/2af54ef8

Can they keep operating like this by flying slightly further south and avoiding Finnish (and also Estonian) airspace or is it game over for flights to Kalinigrad? As the enclave is encircled by NATO whoch no ground access, this could become a major issue for the russians in the coming days.

Also noted Serbian bizjets en route from Vnukovo to Western Europe passing through airspcae blocked for hte Russians - wonder if some quick thinking oligarch have switched their steeds quickly

Emirates planning for potential fuel stops on US West Coast services due to sanctions.

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2022 ... sanctions/

SU124 just crossed Finland, Sweden and Norway in a non-trivial way, flying from Moscow to NYC. When did or does the airspace closure of these 3 countries to Russian aircraft take effect ?
Are European countries really willing to shoot down civilian aircraft overflying their territories in contravention of an airspace closure, if verbal persuasion is ignored ?
I'm wondering whether Aeroflot might send an empty civilian aircraft (just 1 or 2 pilots on secondment from Russian air force) to countries with closed airspace, to test the reaction of Europe

davidjohnson6 wrote:

SU124 just crossed Finland, Sweden and Norway in a non-trivial way, flying from Moscow to NYC. When did or does the airspace closure of these 3 countries to Russian aircraft take effect ?
Are European countries really willing to shoot down civilian aircraft overflying their territories in contravention of an airspace closure, if verbal persuasion is ignored ?
I'm wondering whether Aeroflot might send an empty civilian aircraft (just 1 or 2 pilots on secondment from Russian air force) to countries with closed airspace, to test the reaction of Europe

Short of another 9/11 they won't shoot down, but denying fuel and/or blocking the aircraft upon landing is certainly doable so good luck getting back!

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Are European countries really willing to shoot down civilian aircraft overflying their territories in contravention of an airspace closure, if verbal persuasion is ignored

Probably not. But they can block Aeroflot from taking of. Simply deny them fuel, deny them a tow truck or park a truck behind the plane. Or just let the leasing company retrieve their plane.

Mriya An-225 is gone. It burned down during the Russian attack on its home base GML.

Media source (in Ukrainian - Google translate): https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-v-r ... 26400.html
Official source of the plane owner: https://t.me/UOP_Official/781

Who does ground handling for SU at JFK and LAX and MIA? Delta?

Its not getting easier for SU and RU...Dutch transport minister now closing airspace over the Netherlands for Russian flights as per today 15:00 hrs GMT
https://twitter.com/markharbers/status/ ... 4656798723

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Iran managed to keep its Boeing aircraft flying for decades after US sanctions
Russia has far more aviation resources than Iran. It makes things more difficult for Russia, but certainly not impossible

Aren't all the Boeings and Airbuses flying for Russian carriers leased? They fly around with a 'VP-' registration, not a 'RA-' one.
If economic sanctions are put, the lessors will want their planes back. If Russia won't return them, they will also not be able to fly them on any international route for fear of impounding.

It's not going to be easy for Russian carriers.

Is Finland going to close their airspace? If they do then Kaliningrad will be cut off...

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:

Is Finland going to close their airspace? If they do then Kaliningrad will be cut off...

Yes, Finland closed earlier today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seems the AN-225 Mriya is destroyed, citing this Norwegian news site: https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verdens-storste-fly-skal-ha-blitt-odelagt-1.15871896
Apparently it was at Hostomel airport near Kyiv and destroyed during a russian attack.
Only one of its kind.

Edit: Posted above too.

davidjohnson6 wrote:

SU124 just crossed Finland, Sweden and Norway in a non-trivial way, flying from Moscow to NYC. When did or does the airspace closure of these 3 countries to Russian aircraft take effect ?
Are European countries really willing to shoot down civilian aircraft overflying their territories in contravention of an airspace closure, if verbal persuasion is ignored ?
I'm wondering whether Aeroflot might send an empty civilian aircraft (just 1 or 2 pilots on secondment from Russian air force) to countries with closed airspace, to test the reaction of Europe

No, they would never shoot down a civil aircraft for an ADIZ violation unless there's a clear threat. Aeroflot crews are professional, and they would be very unlikely to proceed in conflict with ATC instructions. If they were to do so, they would be intercepted and forced to land. Ignoring those instructions would spark an international incident. Clearly Russia is not currently opposed to sparking international incidents, but Aeroflot has long maintained an unprovocative posture going back to the Soviet days. It does not work to their benefit long term to act otherwise.

This Il-76 is a long way from home but will presumably be able to leave the USA unless new measures are introduced.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VDA ... /KPSM/KTTS

InnsbruckFlyer wrote:

Is Finland going to close their airspace? If they do then Kaliningrad will be cut off...

No, there is a small corridor of international waters (an so airspace) between Finland and Estonia : https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=7/60.204/26.093

atcsundevil wrote:

davidjohnson6 wrote:

SU124 just crossed Finland, Sweden and Norway in a non-trivial way, flying from Moscow to NYC. When did or does the airspace closure of these 3 countries to Russian aircraft take effect ?
Are European countries really willing to shoot down civilian aircraft overflying their territories in contravention of an airspace closure, if verbal persuasion is ignored ?
I'm wondering whether Aeroflot might send an empty civilian aircraft (just 1 or 2 pilots on secondment from Russian air force) to countries with closed airspace, to test the reaction of Europe

No, they would never shoot down a civil aircraft for an ADIZ violation unless there's a clear threat. Aeroflot crews are professional, and they would be very unlikely to proceed in conflict with ATC instructions. If they were to do so, they would be intercepted and forced to land. Ignoring those instructions would spark an international incident. Clearly Russia is not currently opposed to sparking international incidents, but Aeroflot has long maintained an unprovocative posture going back to the Soviet days. It does not work to their benefit long term to act otherwise.

Also Ay is flying so not yet implemented.

Has there been word regarding Ukraine International Airlines' fleet and aircrews? It is heartbreaking that Antonov did not prepare for the Russian attack and evacuate their aircraft and people weeks ago.

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

Sunday - February 27, 2022:

Aeroflot flight AFL2152 SVO-DUS diverted to AMS to avoid the sudden closure of German airspace for Russian operated aircraft.
However The Netherlands followed the German example pretty quickly and A320 VP-BAC seems to have become stuck at AMS, as en-route airspace of NL, Germany, DK, Sweden are now all closed.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/su2152
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vp-bac

Are there any other examples of Russian operated aircraft stuck outside Russia??

I wonder how long overflights of Russia will continue due to security risks to airlines, the cut off of payment systems (SWIFT) to handle such transactions and Russia/Putin making the 'West' pay for their sanctions. That could mean many flights between to/from Asia will have to be re-routed with serous results.

factsonly wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

Sunday - February 27, 2022:

Aeroflot flight AFL2152 SVO-DUS diverted to AMS to avoid the sudden closure of German airspace for Russian operated aircraft.
However The Netherlands followed the German example pretty quickly and A320 VP-BAC seems to have become stuck at AMS, as en-route airspace of NL, Germany, DK, Sweden are now all closed.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/su2152
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vp-bac

Are there any other examples of Russian operated aircraft stuck outside Russia??

According to Fr24 , the flight from Geneva to Moscow is now stuck on ground at GVA it seems ...
Fligh number SU2385, should have departed 1h30 ago ...

This will harm Euro airlines more than Russia, other than a couple of small ones.

Air France is already canceling all China, Japan and Asia runs, trying to figure out reroutes.

factsonly wrote:

chunhimlai wrote:

how far SU operation affected?

Sunday - February 27, 2022:

Aeroflot flight AFL2152 SVO-DUS diverted to AMS to avoid the sudden closure of German airspace for Russian operated aircraft.
However The Netherlands followed the German example pretty quickly and A320 VP-BAC seems to have become stuck at AMS, as en-route airspace of NL, Germany, DK, Sweden are now all closed.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/su2152
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vp-bac

Are there any other examples of Russian operated aircraft stuck outside Russia??

It is weird. The time the ban started was announced well in advance. It seems that SU somewhat tried it. Some other flights (like SU2090 and SU2484) were almost rushing to make it (looking at their flight datas, I'm under the impression that there were flying faster than usual). Now, they are forced to make a very long detour to go back (SU2091).
Another one (SU2385) seems to be stuck in GVA (shown as "taxiing" on Flightaware for the last hour and a half).

EU closes airspace for Russian planes.

https://twitter.com/APDiploWriter/statu ... 3982034945

Unconfirmed reports are that Aeroflot 2385 A321 VP-BOE operating GVA-SVO is reportedly being held at the gate and the aircraft is not being allowed to depart.

Homebound flights AFL2533 from AGP and AFL2719 from BCN are now forced onto the 'scenic' route over the Baltic because of the recent EU airspace closures

https://fr24.com/AFL2719/2af59243]
https://fr24.com/AFL2533/2af581be

Any uptick in traffic at ANC yet? Saw that YVR was used for a Europe-Asia reroute but don't see anything else out of the ordinary

FlyingElvii wrote:

This will harm Euro airlines more than Russia, other than a couple of small ones.

Air France is already canceling all China, Japan and Asia runs, trying to figure out reroutes.

That may be true but the purpose of these sanctions is not only to make Russian companies suffer. It is also to isolate Russia and halt their trade relationships with the rest of the world. Western countries are not trying to create a competitive advantage for their airlines, it's more than that. All airlines will suffer from this.