Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 26361
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:08 am

The next step in the ongoing legal saga over what to do with the 16 vacated Southwest Airlines slots at EWR from 2019, the DOT on Friday issued request proposals from LCC or ULCC carriers that wish to utilize the 16 peak EWR slot assignments.

DOT preference is to award all 16 operations to a single carrier but will consider options for allocation among multiple carriers should the need arise.

The published decision criteria will be;
○ Business model and product to allow carrier(s) to compete and offer low fares for large number of travelers
○ Previous record of entering and effectively competing against a dominant carrier
○ Staying power and track record competing in highly competitive markets
○ Ability to appeal to a broad section of travelers with competitive schedules

Applications (which will largely remain confidential) are due March 12.

OST-2021-0103
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14799
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:41 pm

Outside of WN coming back to EWR, my preference would be for B6 to win these slots. Spirit is merging with Frontier, but Frontier is leaving EWR. If they wanted to be larger at EWR NK/F9 could have just kept the F9 routes. I would reward the airline that is growing, not shrinking, in the market.
 
Manderson12
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 10:16 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:48 pm

I would prefer that it be Breeze, EWR is already saturated with traditional routes, this service should be given to an airline that provides air service to airports with little or no service to N.Y.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 13459
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:01 pm

Manderson12 wrote:
I would prefer that it be Breeze, EWR is already saturated with traditional routes, this service should be given to an airline that provides air service to airports with little or no service to N.Y.

That assumes Breeze wants to serve EWR.
 
as739x
Posts: 5286
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:14 pm

Manderson12 wrote:
I would prefer that it be Breeze, EWR is already saturated with traditional routes, this service should be given to an airline that provides air service to airports with little or no service to N.Y.


EWR doesn't fit into their business model
 
MLIAA
Posts: 452
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:25 pm

This seems like JetBlue’s to lose.

Alternatively, Sun Country could be a dark horse, they apparently do MSP and seasonal MSN already, maybe they would make a case to ramp up EWR a bit?
 
jplatts
Posts: 5846
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:50 pm

as739x wrote:
Manderson12 wrote:
I would prefer that it be Breeze, EWR is already saturated with traditional routes, this service should be given to an airline that provides air service to airports with little or no service to N.Y.


EWR doesn't fit into their business model


CAK, BDL, HSV, and TUL are the only destinations currently served by MX that don't currently have any nonstop service to the NYC market.

MX is unlikely to ever add nonstop service to NYC from BDL with BDL being near the NYC metro area.

The markets that MX would be serving nonstop from EWR if it adds service to EWR are either
(a) markets that already have nonstop service out of EWR/LGA/JFK on the US3 or B6,
(b) markets that AA or DL could add nonstop service to out of LGA, or
(c) markets that AA could add nonstop service to out of EWR.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:13 pm

Didn’t we do this already in the fall?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 11257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:53 pm

LAXintl wrote:
T
DOT preference is to award all 16 operations to a single carrier but will consider options for allocation among multiple carriers should the need arise.

The published decision criteria will be;
○ Business model and product to allow carrier(s) to compete and offer low fares for large number of travelers
○ Previous record of entering and effectively competing against a dominant carrier
○ Staying power and track record competing in highly competitive markets
○ Ability to appeal to a broad section of travelers with competitive schedules


If we're going to have a free market in air services, let there be a market: the DOT should auction the slots, rather than awarding them by subjective and contradictory criteria.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
T
DOT preference is to award all 16 operations to a single carrier but will consider options for allocation among multiple carriers should the need arise.

The published decision criteria will be;
○ Business model and product to allow carrier(s) to compete and offer low fares for large number of travelers
○ Previous record of entering and effectively competing against a dominant carrier
○ Staying power and track record competing in highly competitive markets
○ Ability to appeal to a broad section of travelers with competitive schedules


If we're going to have a free market in air services, let there be a market: the DOT should auction the slots, rather than awarding them by subjective and contradictory criteria.


Agreed, a case for every airline wanting the slots can be made. Auctioning them sounds like the most fair manner in which to award them.
 
Wneast
Posts: 1640
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:37 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:20 pm

What if WN came back lol
 
jplatts
Posts: 5846
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:51 pm

Wneast wrote:
What if WN came back lol


WN has recently made some cuts to its Spring 2022 flight schedules, and I probably would not expect WN to return to EWR this year with the cuts that WN has already made to its Spring 2022 and Summer 2022 flight schedules.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:45 am

I think NK and B6 each have a strong contending for these slots. Personally I would prefer to see NK grab them as they would bring down fares more but B6 has a pretty strong track record at EWR.
 
DaCubbyBearBar
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:24 am

jplatts wrote:
Wneast wrote:
What if WN came back lol


WN has recently made some cuts to its Spring 2022 flight schedules, and I probably would not expect WN to return to EWR this year with the cuts that WN has already made to its Spring 2022 and Summer 2022 flight schedules.

What if SWA made the cuts in case they win the auction…..they would have the planes available…can add back the flights if they don’t but no last minute cancellations… hmmmm… just my thoughts
 
jcwr56
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 12:37 pm

Lets assume the NK and F9 merger goes through...would this new merged carrier still be desiring these allocations given F9 just pulled out not too long ago? F9 has controlling interest so who really at the end of the day is viable to pick these up? What could B6 offer that they can't do from JFK looking at the criteria.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 1:31 pm

jcwr56 wrote:
Lets assume the NK and F9 merger goes through...would this new merged carrier still be desiring these allocations given F9 just pulled out not too long ago? F9 has controlling interest so who really at the end of the day is viable to pick these up? What could B6 offer that they can't do from JFK looking at the criteria.


Just because they do something out of JfK doesn’t mean they don’t want to do it out of EWR. The two airports, while close, generally pull from different populations centers.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7176
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 2:23 pm

EWR and JFK are not the same market. B6 has a lot of interest in growing itself into Jersey.

I'm just surprised that months after this was announced, we are finally getting the applications in. Things move so slow with the government.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:22 pm

B6 seems to be spread a bit thin right now. Do they have the equipment and crews to operate these extra flights from EWR?
 
jcwr56
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:07 pm

[quote="N757ST"][quote="jcwr56"]Lets assume the NK and F9 merger goes through...would this new merged carrier still be desiring these allocations given F9 just pulled out not too long ago? F9 has controlling interest so who really at the end of the day is viable to pick these up? What could B6 offer that they can't do from JFK looking at the criteria.[/quote]

Just because they do something out of JfK doesn’t mean they don’t want to do it out of EWR. The two airports, while close, generally pull from different populations centers.[/quote]

Fair point, but I would be curious if they're doing this now. I'm looking at the criteria being the guiding factor and I'm sure there's folks on here can could provide insight on this.
 
tphuang
Posts: 7176
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:44 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
B6 seems to be spread a bit thin right now. Do they have the equipment and crews to operate these extra flights from EWR?


if they really need to go, they can easily ramp up to 8x on BOS-EWR and 6x EWR-FLL + cut a few other flights from Florida. That would not be very hard.

After the summer peak schedule period, they should have more aircraft availability.
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 830
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 5:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
B6 seems to be spread a bit thin right now. Do they have the equipment and crews to operate these extra flights from EWR?


if they really need to go, they can easily ramp up to 8x on BOS-EWR and 6x EWR-FLL + cut a few other flights from Florida. That would not be very hard.

After the summer peak schedule period, they should have more aircraft availability.


...additionally, the codeshare with AA removes some of the pressures in other areas of the network should they need to 'save' an aircraft or two, in order to ramp up for this, quickly. Though I doubt that it can happen quickly, the A220 might well prove to be a great aircraft for EWR-"Long and Thin" routes which they can use to launch new services. I don't think we will see them arrive at that mass yet/very soon, however in time this too allows them to be able to alleviate pressures from other parts of the fleets to staff such a move, if they wished to make it. I can see them 'showboating' them on specific high value and competitive routes, akin to how DL rolled out their A220s (except against UA's fortress hub at EWR), however EWR's slot restrictions will always favor up-gauging to larger. The cost of the operation, probably also, does not permit them to burn cash as quietly as would other wise be needed for a longer run.

Based on the OP, I can't see why the DOT would oppose splitting the slot allotment between/among carriers if needed.
B6 may not have a need for all 16, though, admittedly 16 (and such a high quality) would be a decent base for another operator.
Interestingly, this would be a decent case for a carrier like Avelo to launch the area but that is not perhaps, a fantastic fit.
I can't see AS taking on the slots, with as much advantages as AA and OneWorld's operation at JFK (and LGA) offers them, so these many frequencies going all to them, would not seem a great fit either.
The other majors, AA and DL, have pretty much stabilized EWR to their other hubs and have their sizable operations at JFK/LGA - and with DL emerging as a smaller carrier overall, I don't think that they will have the aircraft and/or see the profit margins needed for them to take on further slots at EWR further.

I wonder how/if international carriers would be interested in some of these slots/timings?

Interesting sub-thought; could Allegiant (and their proposed JV with Viva Aerobus) take advantage of these slots as well?
 
tphuang
Posts: 7176
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:11 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
tphuang wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
B6 seems to be spread a bit thin right now. Do they have the equipment and crews to operate these extra flights from EWR?


if they really need to go, they can easily ramp up to 8x on BOS-EWR and 6x EWR-FLL + cut a few other flights from Florida. That would not be very hard.

After the summer peak schedule period, they should have more aircraft availability.


...additionally, the codeshare with AA removes some of the pressures in other areas of the network should they need to 'save' an aircraft or two, in order to ramp up for this, quickly. Though I doubt that it can happen quickly, the A220 might well prove to be a great aircraft for EWR-"Long and Thin" routes which they can use to launch new services. I don't think we will see them arrive at that mass yet/very soon, however in time this too allows them to be able to alleviate pressures from other parts of the fleets to staff such a move, if they wished to make it. I can see them 'showboating' them on specific high value and competitive routes, akin to how DL rolled out their A220s (except against UA's fortress hub at EWR), however EWR's slot restrictions will always favor up-gauging to larger. The cost of the operation, probably also, does not permit them to burn cash as quietly as would other wise be needed for a longer run.

Based on the OP, I can't see why the DOT would oppose splitting the slot allotment between/among carriers if needed.
B6 may not have a need for all 16, though, admittedly 16 (and such a high quality) would be a decent base for another operator.
Interestingly, this would be a decent case for a carrier like Avelo to launch the area but that is not perhaps, a fantastic fit.
I can't see AS taking on the slots, with as much advantages as AA and OneWorld's operation at JFK (and LGA) offers them, so these many frequencies going all to them, would not seem a great fit either.
The other majors, AA and DL, have pretty much stabilized EWR to their other hubs and have their sizable operations at JFK/LGA - and with DL emerging as a smaller carrier overall, I don't think that they will have the aircraft and/or see the profit margins needed for them to take on further slots at EWR further.

I wonder how/if international carriers would be interested in some of these slots/timings?

Interesting sub-thought; could Allegiant (and their proposed JV with Viva Aerobus) take advantage of these slots as well?


16 slots is 8 pairs of slots. That's not a lot of flights. B6 would easily have the need for that many flights and a lot more.
 
kiowa
Posts: 960
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:21 pm

Wneast wrote:
What if WN came back lol


Would rather see a better airline like B6 than have WN come back.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3617
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:54 pm

tphuang wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
tphuang wrote:

if they really need to go, they can easily ramp up to 8x on BOS-EWR and 6x EWR-FLL + cut a few other flights from Florida. That would not be very hard.

After the summer peak schedule period, they should have more aircraft availability.


...additionally, the codeshare with AA removes some of the pressures in other areas of the network should they need to 'save' an aircraft or two, in order to ramp up for this, quickly. Though I doubt that it can happen quickly, the A220 might well prove to be a great aircraft for EWR-"Long and Thin" routes which they can use to launch new services. I don't think we will see them arrive at that mass yet/very soon, however in time this too allows them to be able to alleviate pressures from other parts of the fleets to staff such a move, if they wished to make it. I can see them 'showboating' them on specific high value and competitive routes, akin to how DL rolled out their A220s (except against UA's fortress hub at EWR), however EWR's slot restrictions will always favor up-gauging to larger. The cost of the operation, probably also, does not permit them to burn cash as quietly as would other wise be needed for a longer run.

Based on the OP, I can't see why the DOT would oppose splitting the slot allotment between/among carriers if needed.
B6 may not have a need for all 16, though, admittedly 16 (and such a high quality) would be a decent base for another operator.
Interestingly, this would be a decent case for a carrier like Avelo to launch the area but that is not perhaps, a fantastic fit.
I can't see AS taking on the slots, with as much advantages as AA and OneWorld's operation at JFK (and LGA) offers them, so these many frequencies going all to them, would not seem a great fit either.
The other majors, AA and DL, have pretty much stabilized EWR to their other hubs and have their sizable operations at JFK/LGA - and with DL emerging as a smaller carrier overall, I don't think that they will have the aircraft and/or see the profit margins needed for them to take on further slots at EWR further.

I wonder how/if international carriers would be interested in some of these slots/timings?

Interesting sub-thought; could Allegiant (and their proposed JV with Viva Aerobus) take advantage of these slots as well?


16 slots is 8 pairs of slots. That's not a lot of flights. B6 would easily have the need for that many flights and a lot more.


Are you sure it's not 16 slot pairs? WN definitely had more than 8 daily flights to EWR when they operated there (but maybe some of their slots were already reallocated?).

I agree with others that B6 makes the most sense for these, with the only other real contender appearing to be NK/F9. MX and XP are out based on the criterion about having to have a proven track record in competitive markets. G4 doesn't seem to fit the bill either based on the criterion about offering competitive schedules. WN presumably doesn't want them back. SY could theoretically go for them, but it doesn't seem very likely (would they have the fleet and crew resources to do it without ceding their MSP operation?).. Would AS count as an LCC in the eyes of the government? Even if they did, would they want more slots at an airport on the opposite side of the country from their bread & butter?
 
tphuang
Posts: 7176
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:12 pm

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:

...additionally, the codeshare with AA removes some of the pressures in other areas of the network should they need to 'save' an aircraft or two, in order to ramp up for this, quickly. Though I doubt that it can happen quickly, the A220 might well prove to be a great aircraft for EWR-"Long and Thin" routes which they can use to launch new services. I don't think we will see them arrive at that mass yet/very soon, however in time this too allows them to be able to alleviate pressures from other parts of the fleets to staff such a move, if they wished to make it. I can see them 'showboating' them on specific high value and competitive routes, akin to how DL rolled out their A220s (except against UA's fortress hub at EWR), however EWR's slot restrictions will always favor up-gauging to larger. The cost of the operation, probably also, does not permit them to burn cash as quietly as would other wise be needed for a longer run.

Based on the OP, I can't see why the DOT would oppose splitting the slot allotment between/among carriers if needed.
B6 may not have a need for all 16, though, admittedly 16 (and such a high quality) would be a decent base for another operator.
Interestingly, this would be a decent case for a carrier like Avelo to launch the area but that is not perhaps, a fantastic fit.
I can't see AS taking on the slots, with as much advantages as AA and OneWorld's operation at JFK (and LGA) offers them, so these many frequencies going all to them, would not seem a great fit either.
The other majors, AA and DL, have pretty much stabilized EWR to their other hubs and have their sizable operations at JFK/LGA - and with DL emerging as a smaller carrier overall, I don't think that they will have the aircraft and/or see the profit margins needed for them to take on further slots at EWR further.

I wonder how/if international carriers would be interested in some of these slots/timings?

Interesting sub-thought; could Allegiant (and their proposed JV with Viva Aerobus) take advantage of these slots as well?


16 slots is 8 pairs of slots. That's not a lot of flights. B6 would easily have the need for that many flights and a lot more.


Are you sure it's not 16 slot pairs? WN definitely had more than 8 daily flights to EWR when they operated there (but maybe some of their slots were already reallocated?).

I agree with others that B6 makes the most sense for these, with the only other real contender appearing to be NK/F9. MX and XP are out based on the criterion about having to have a proven track record in competitive markets. G4 doesn't seem to fit the bill either based on the criterion about offering competitive schedules. WN presumably doesn't want them back. SY could theoretically go for them, but it doesn't seem very likely (would they have the fleet and crew resources to do it without ceding their MSP operation?).. Would AS count as an LCC in the eyes of the government? Even if they did, would they want more slots at an airport on the opposite side of the country from their bread & butter?


I guess we will see, but my understanding is that it's 8 pairs. Keep in mind that EWR is not constrained all day. There are large portions of the day where you can still add flights.
 
bpat777
Posts: 752
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 1999 8:21 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:18 pm

kiowa wrote:
Wneast wrote:
What if WN came back lol


Would rather see a better airline like B6 than have WN come back.


In your opinion how is B6 a better airline than WN? I guess the free WiFi and TVs are helpful for the common long B6 delays??
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 26361
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:22 pm

Its 16 slot timings, but they don't need to be utilized in pairs as they are only applicable during the peak afternoon and evening period.

SWA had a total of 36 slots at the airport, but this reassignment is only applicable to the 16 peak timings they had during the period as EWR is now otherwise not slot restricted.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3617
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:31 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Its 16 slot timings, but they don't need to be utilized in pairs as they are only applicable during the peak afternoon and evening period.

SWA had a total of 36 slots at the airport, but this reassignment is only applicable to the 16 peak timings they had during the period as EWR is now otherwise not slot restricted.


Got it - thanks for the explanation.
 
jplatts
Posts: 5846
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:07 pm

FSDan wrote:
I agree with others that B6 makes the most sense for these, with the only other real contender appearing to be NK/F9.


B6 adding EWR-ORD nonstop service might be a possibility as there was a void left behind after WN dropped MDW-EWR nonstop service in November 2019, even though the reduced amount of nonstop service that was there to Chicago from EWR after WN pulled out of EWR became less of an issue after the COVID-19 pandemic hit.

Here is a comparison of EWR-CHI PDEW's between Q3 2019 and Q3 2021:
EWR-ORD PDEW in Q3 2021 - 1312 passengers/day
EWR-MDW PDEW in Q3 2019 - 318 passengers/day
EWR-CHI PDEW in Q3 2021 - 1630 passengers/day

EWR-ORD PDEW in Q3 2021 - 916 passengers/day
EWR-MDW PDEW in Q3 2021 - 7 passengers/day
EWR-CHI PDEW in Q3 2021 - 923 passengers/day
 
Kilopond
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:46 pm

It amuses me how the DoT completely ignores any IATA recommendations and acts as a kind of feudalist tyrant. ("Only we know what is best for you"). :crying:
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 2075
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:28 pm

NK got the slots! New route predictions?
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 26361
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:37 pm

Quote from today's decision.

Spirit has demonstrated its ability to maintain a significantly lower cost structure, allowing it to offer lower fares to more passengers, and has a demonstrated history of entering and stimulating markets (including those dominated by United or other legacy carriers). The Department concludes that the maximum competitive benefits will be realized by the award of these timings to Spirit as the carrier best able to achieve the proceeding’s aims of restoring the competition lost when Southwest relinquished the timings.

Order 2022-7-1
 
trueblew
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:23 pm

So now we wait to discover whether these slots end up at JetBlue or Frontier in the end. Frontier certainly do not have a history of "staying power and track record competing in highly competitive markets" or the "ability to appeal to a broad section of travelers with competitive schedules."
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 26361
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:28 pm

Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.
 
Mikeer50
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:12 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:43 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.


So the same government that’s trying to kill the NEA, used the NEA as a reason why JetBlue will be able to expand its presence in NY?
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2657
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:47 pm

Manderson12 wrote:
I would prefer that it be Breeze, EWR is already saturated with traditional routes, this service should be given to an airline that provides air service to airports with little or no service to N.Y.


Looks like NK got the slots.
Last edited by freakyrat on Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 7098
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:48 pm

Mikeer50 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.


So the same government that’s trying to kill the NEA, used the NEA as a reason why JetBlue will be able to expand its presence in NY?


The NEA was approved under a different administration.
 
Mikeer50
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:12 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:51 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.


So the same government that’s trying to kill the NEA, used the NEA as a reason why JetBlue will be able to expand its presence in NY?


The NEA was approved under a different administration.


Yeah, but this administration just awarded Spirit the slots and used the NEA as the reason.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 7098
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:56 pm

Mikeer50 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:

So the same government that’s trying to kill the NEA, used the NEA as a reason why JetBlue will be able to expand its presence in NY?


The NEA was approved under a different administration.


Yeah, but this administration just awarded Spirit the slots and used the NEA as the reason.


What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.
 
fastmover
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:03 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The NEA was approved under a different administration.


Yeah, but this administration just awarded Spirit the slots and used the NEA as the reason.


What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.



Because the government is taking JetBlue to court over the NEA yet saying JetBlue can expand because of the NEA so here spirit gets the slots.

Ok so let’s say the government says no to the NEA can JetBlue now say well hey what about those slots?
 
gmcc
Posts: 568
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:04 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.

So what happens when B6 gobbles up NK and the NK price become B6's higher average fare.? Do they make the combine carrier divest their newly acquired slots. :spin:
 
Mikeer50
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:12 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:07 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

The NEA was approved under a different administration.


Yeah, but this administration just awarded Spirit the slots and used the NEA as the reason.


What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.


For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.
 
trueblew
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:21 pm

Mikeer50 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:

Yeah, but this administration just awarded Spirit the slots and used the NEA as the reason.


What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.


For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.


I am certain JetBlue are going to point out this fact if the NEA ends up in court.
 
fastmover
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:27 pm

gmcc wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.

So what happens when B6 gobbles up NK and the NK price become B6's higher average fare.? Do they make the combine carrier divest their newly acquired slots. :spin:



I’m sure JetBlue would divest these slots. (If) they ended up with spirit.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 7098
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:29 pm

trueblew wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.


For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.


I am certain JetBlue are going to point out this fact if the NEA ends up in court.


The DOT isn't actively trying to destroy it, that is the DOJ.

And it already is in court.
https://simpleflying.com/american-airli ... september/

fastmover wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:

Yeah, but this administration just awarded Spirit the slots and used the NEA as the reason.


What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.



Because the government is taking JetBlue to court over the NEA yet saying JetBlue can expand because of the NEA so here spirit gets the slots.

Ok so let’s say the government says no to the NEA can JetBlue now say well hey what about those slots?


B6 is not entitled to those slots.

The NEA was just one criteria in the ruling.

gmcc wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.

So what happens when B6 gobbles up NK and the NK price become B6's higher average fare.? Do they make the combine carrier divest their newly acquired slots. :spin:


B6 already agreed to divest NK assets in the Northeast, so that wouldn't be an issue.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 26361
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:29 pm

Mikeer50 wrote:
For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.


Actually seems quite logical.

The NEA is legal today, so the DOT made its decision on the fact that B6 can leverage the NEA to grow NYC, and Spirit instead would provide the greatest consumer benefit.

What happens should NEA get killed by DOJ, and what would happen if B6 were to acquire NK is another issue to be resolved down the road. Decisions today are made with the facts today.
 
fastmover
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:30 pm

Mikeer50 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:

Yeah, but this administration just awarded Spirit the slots and used the NEA as the reason.


What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.


For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.



Exactly this. Hey you can’t have these because of this agreement which was approved and we might also take away the agreement which is the reason you can’t have these slots. Smh

I’m not even saying JetBlue should get them but using the NEA is interesting.
 
fastmover
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:31 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:
For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.


Actually seems quite logical.

The NEA is legal today, so the DOT made its decision on the fact that B6 can leverage the NEA to grow NYC, and Spirit instead would provide the greatest consumer benefit.

What happens should NEA get killed by DOJ, and what would happen if B6 were to acquire NK is another issue to be resolved down the road. Decisions today are made with the facts today.



So if they scrap the NEA can they apply for the slots which just got denied because (one reason) been no the NEA?
Last edited by fastmover on Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
fastmover
Posts: 701
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:34 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:

For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.


I am certain JetBlue are going to point out this fact if the NEA ends up in court.


The DOT isn't actively trying to destroy it, that is the DOJ.

And it already is in court.
https://simpleflying.com/american-airli ... september/

fastmover wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

What is confusing about that?

The NEA hasn't been killed yet, no one knows what the outcome will be.



Because the government is taking JetBlue to court over the NEA yet saying JetBlue can expand because of the NEA so here spirit gets the slots.

Ok so let’s say the government says no to the NEA can JetBlue now say well hey what about those slots?


B6 is not entitled to those slots.

The NEA was just one criteria in the ruling.

gmcc wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Well the DOT was not too hot about JetBlue...

Quote from decision...

JetBlue competes well with United on product offering, with a range of fare and onboard products that can appeal to various passenger segments. JetBlue also has a strong history of competitive entry and has a larger network footprint at EWR, including overlap markets with United. However, its relatively higher average fares compared to Spirit would not have the same stimulative effect, which is a benefit for consumers not just in the overlap markets but in other markets to/from EWR. Finally, JetBlue has an existing large presence in NYC as the second largest slot holder at JFK and has the ability to increase its NYC access through its participation in the NEA with American.

So what happens when B6 gobbles up NK and the NK price become B6's higher average fare.? Do they make the combine carrier divest their newly acquired slots. :spin:


B6 already agreed to divest NK assets in the Northeast, so that wouldn't be an issue.



And where pray tell did I say JetBlue was entitled to the slots? (I didn’t nor do I think they are)

Also I love this well it’s this government agency that said no because of an agreement the other government agency is trying to get rid of even though the first government agency had no problem with it and approved it.

Actually I think spirit or another airline should have received them. Fine with me
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 7098
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: DOT issues EWR Slot Reassignment Solicitation

Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:01 am

fastmover wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Mikeer50 wrote:
For a government agency to use an agreement that it’s actively trying to destroy as a reason to gift a commercial advantage to another company is complete BS. The NEA is either a valid agreement or it’s not.


Actually seems quite logical.

The NEA is legal today, so the DOT made its decision on the fact that B6 can leverage the NEA to grow NYC, and Spirit instead would provide the greatest consumer benefit.

What happens should NEA get killed by DOJ, and what would happen if B6 were to acquire NK is another issue to be resolved down the road. Decisions today are made with the facts today.



So if they scrap the NEA can they apply for the slots which just got denied because of the NEA?


The. NEA. Was. Just. One. Criteria. In. The. Decision.

Using that logic, if B6 were to change its business model to an ULCC tomorrow, could it reapply for the slots?

And what happens to the slots that got allocated to NK, and the passengers booked on NK flights once they are scheduled?

No they cannot reapply for these slots. If B6 wants them they can sue just like NK did.
https://simpleflying.com/faa-spirit-newark-decision/

fastmover wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
trueblew wrote:

I am certain JetBlue are going to point out this fact if the NEA ends up in court.


The DOT isn't actively trying to destroy it, that is the DOJ.

And it already is in court.
https://simpleflying.com/american-airli ... september/

fastmover wrote:


Because the government is taking JetBlue to court over the NEA yet saying JetBlue can expand because of the NEA so here spirit gets the slots.

Ok so let’s say the government says no to the NEA can JetBlue now say well hey what about those slots?


B6 is not entitled to those slots.

The NEA was just one criteria in the ruling.

gmcc wrote:
So what happens when B6 gobbles up NK and the NK price become B6's higher average fare.? Do they make the combine carrier divest their newly acquired slots. :spin:


B6 already agreed to divest NK assets in the Northeast, so that wouldn't be an issue.



And where pray tell did I say JetBlue was entitled to the slots? (I didn’t nor do I think they are)

Also I love this well it’s this government agency that said no because of an agreement the other government agency is trying to get rid of even though the first government agency had no problem with it and approved it.

Actually I think spirit or another airline should have received them. Fine with me


Yeah you should love it...that's how the US government is supposed to work...checks and balances.

Why should an alliance approved in literally the second to last day of an outgoing administration face no scrutiny?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos