New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

ZK-NBT · Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:05 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
ZKOJH wrote:
Reading over the press release from NZ the other day on the launch of the JFK service got me thinking.

The new service further deepens the alliance between Air New Zealand and United Airlines. NZ can connect them to domestic destinations across the US, Canada, and the UK.

What onward connections are there with UA from JFK after an arrival time of 19:55 local?

Traditionally, flight numbers 1 and 2 are used for an airline's flagship route. And that's what New York will be – our flagship route. "

So will we see the new business/premium economy/economy product? released and installed for the new route? Even getting Wi-Fi on the 787 would help for such a long flight. Greg says about having the best product in the sky in the NZ Herald video. other airlines are coming out with some really good stuff recently - a bit of a challenge.

Just 6 months before the first flight, could they increase the service before the first flight if bookings are ahead of what they expected? With the 77Ws coming back and the recent re-hiring of pilots and cabin crew, won’t they have more 787s free?

JFK is not a hub for UA. UA only has flights from JFK to SFO and LAX on premium heavy configured aircraft. However many Star Alliance airlines fly into JFK and the transit traffic will likely be minimal for NZ.

AKL-JFK is largely focused on O&D with most connections likely to be from the AKL end (including any ex-Australia/Pacific traffic on NZ's own flights).

Agree definitely focused on connections at the AKL end so NZ domestic and Australia, and O&D on the JFK end.

In terms of NZ’s new product, so we know when they plan to unveil this? It won’t be this year that it is rolled out, I would think the first aircraft with it may well be the next 789 deliveries which are second half 2023 at this stage I believe, originally they were due this year, these are GE powered and should give a small but significant on a route like AKL-JFK PIP. It would probably make sense if possible that these alhave the new product and maybe a slightly less dense cabin?

Some of the 789s have WIFI don’t they?

Reading between the lines the US routes will be rebuilt with if I have it right all the 77Ws returning by the end of The year, unverified though, just me trying to read between the lines. I’m not sure they will increase before starting JFK but more likely rebuild ORD/IAH more quickly or possibly 77Ws to IAH?

NZ516 · Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:44 pm

Agree with the US routes and the news article was wrong as there is no United connections at JFK. With just 6 77Ws returning I would expect they will be used for 3 daily routes LAX, SFO and IAH. Leaving ORD and JFK with the 789s.

ZK-NBT · Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:43 am

Is RAR-LAX scheduled to return? Same with RAR-SYD?

dhaliwal · Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:01 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
ZKOJH wrote:
Reading over the press release from NZ the other day on the launch of the JFK service got me thinking.

The new service further deepens the alliance between Air New Zealand and United Airlines. NZ can connect them to domestic destinations across the US, Canada, and the UK.

What onward connections are there with UA from JFK after an arrival time of 19:55 local?

Traditionally, flight numbers 1 and 2 are used for an airline's flagship route. And that's what New York will be – our flagship route. "

So will we see the new business/premium economy/economy product? released and installed for the new route? Even getting Wi-Fi on the 787 would help for such a long flight. Greg says about having the best product in the sky in the NZ Herald video. other airlines are coming out with some really good stuff recently - a bit of a challenge.

Just 6 months before the first flight, could they increase the service before the first flight if bookings are ahead of what they expected? With the 77Ws coming back and the recent re-hiring of pilots and cabin crew, won’t they have more 787s free?

JFK is not a hub for UA. UA only has flights from JFK to SFO and LAX on premium heavy configured aircraft. However many Star Alliance airlines fly into JFK and the transit traffic will likely be minimal for NZ.

AKL-JFK is largely focused on O&D with most connections likely to be from the AKL end (including any ex-Australia/Pacific traffic on NZ's own flights).

Agree definitely focused on connections at the AKL end so NZ domestic and Australia, and O&D on the JFK end.

In terms of NZ’s new product, so we know when they plan to unveil this? It won’t be this year that it is rolled out, I would think the first aircraft with it may well be the next 789 deliveries which are second half 2023 at this stage I believe, originally they were due this year, these are GE powered and should give a small but significant on a route like AKL-JFK PIP. It would probably make sense if possible that these alhave the new product and maybe a slightly less dense cabin?

Some of the 789s have WIFI don’t they?

Reading between the lines the US routes will be rebuilt with if I have it right all the 77Ws returning by the end of The year, unverified though, just me trying to read between the lines. I’m not sure they will increase before starting JFK but more likely rebuild ORD/IAH more quickly or possibly 77Ws to IAH?

Really hope they kill the herringbone design and come up with a much better and more private business product closer to Qatar's Q suite product.
The current business seating is not up to scratch with current times.

NZ801 · Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:37 am

ZKOJH wrote:
Reading over the press release from NZ the other day on the launch of the JFK service got me thinking.

The new service further deepens the alliance between Air New Zealand and United Airlines. NZ can connect them to domestic destinations across the US, Canada, and the UK.

What onward connections are there with UA from JFK after an arrival time of 19:55 local?

Traditionally, flight numbers 1 and 2 are used for an airline's flagship route. And that's what New York will be – our flagship route. "

So will we see the new business/premium economy/economy product? released and installed for the new route? Even getting Wi-Fi on the 787 would help for such a long flight. Greg says about having the best product in the sky in the NZ Herald video. other airlines are coming out with some really good stuff recently - a bit of a challenge.

Just 6 months before the first flight, could they increase the service before the first flight if bookings are ahead of what they expected? With the 77Ws coming back and the recent re-hiring of pilots and cabin crew, won’t they have more 787s free?

My understanding is that we won’t see any new product until the new 787’s arrive, is it next year? I’m also told that the new route will be payload restricted until the new aircraft arrive too.

NZ801 · Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:39 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Is RAR-LAX scheduled to return? Same with RAR-SYD?

I’ve not heard these two routes mentioned at all.

ZK-NBT · Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:21 am

NZ801 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Is RAR-LAX scheduled to return? Same with RAR-SYD?

I’ve not heard these two routes mentioned at all.

I had seen it mentioned elsewhere that made it seem RAR-LAX at least may not return, I may have it wrong though

777ER · Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:40 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Is RAR-LAX scheduled to return? Same with RAR-SYD?

I’ve not heard these two routes mentioned at all.

I had seen it mentioned elsewhere that made it seem RAR-LAX at least may not return, I may have it wrong though

LAX - RAR is open for bookings from either October or November

NZ801 · Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:04 am

777ER wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ801 wrote:

I’ve not heard these two routes mentioned at all.

I had seen it mentioned elsewhere that made it seem RAR-LAX at least may not return, I may have it wrong though

LAX - RAR is open for bookings from either October or November

As it will open in November for booking or it us open now as there’s nothing for October or November at the moment.

NZ516 · Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:49 pm

NZ801 wrote:
777ER wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

I had seen it mentioned elsewhere that made it seem RAR-LAX at least may not return, I may have it wrong though

LAX - RAR is open for bookings from either October or November

As it will open in November for booking or it us open now as there’s nothing for October or November at the moment.

We might have to wait till a new agreement is finalized between the Cook Islands Government and Air NZ before it can return. Same with SYD to RAR flying. I think at the moment the Cook Islands are only open for travel to/from NZ.

NZ516 · Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:19 pm

Queenstown airport is expected to wait another 8 weeks before it sees an International flight. Even longer for an Air NZ Tasman flight

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstow ... 0o76b5q0uo

aerokiwi · Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:59 am

NZ516 wrote:
Queenstown airport is expected to wait another 8 weeks before it sees an International flight. Even longer for an Air NZ Tasman flight

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstow ... 0o76b5q0uo

I hope someone in a position of authority finally gets this through their arrogant heads then... you can announce things all you like but it takes an awful long time for airlines to get operationally ready. You can't argue that "they knew it was coming" because basing decisions on rumours and verbal assurances isn't great business practice. I run in to this all the time with regulators - we won't move until it's on the books.

And still no word - unless I've missed it - on the removal of the transit and additional arrival taxes. Maybe this explains NZ sale fares one way to and from Oz being in the low to mid 200s rather than the mid to high 100s.

NZ801 · Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:22 am

aerokiwi wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Queenstown airport is expected to wait another 8 weeks before it sees an International flight. Even longer for an Air NZ Tasman flight

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstow ... 0o76b5q0uo

I hope someone in a position of authority finally gets this through their arrogant heads then... you can announce things all you like but it takes an awful long time for airlines to get operationally ready. You can't argue that "they knew it was coming" because basing decisions on rumours and verbal assurances isn't great business practice. I run in to this all the time with regulators - we won't move until it's on the books.

And still no word - unless I've missed it - on the removal of the transit and additional arrival taxes. Maybe this explains NZ sale fares one way to and from Oz being in the low to mid 200s rather than the mid to high 100s.

I’m not sure what the issue is here. It seems appropriate for ZQN to wait until closer to the ski season for flights given the slow build up for other cities e.g. CHC. CHC flights have only just started picking up in the last week or so to the point of good loads. AUS-NZ traffic was strong at the start supported by people moving back and on quick whānau visits after the borders opened.

Sprite8806 · Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:33 am

When are Air Vanuatu meant to get their A220s? They said back in 2020 that when they got their A220s they were gonna do a big route expansion and that included Wellington and Christchurch. But that was in 2020, so I don't know if that's still the plan. Also how many A320Neos do Air New Zealand still have on order? Any possibility any of them could be painted in a special livery? Would love to see the Star Alliance livery on one of the Neos.

ZK-NBT · Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:14 am

Sprite8806 wrote:
When are Air Vanuatu meant to get their A220s? They said back in 2020 that when they got their A220s they were gonna do a big route expansion and that included Wellington and Christchurch. But that was in 2020, so I don't know if that's still the plan. Also how many A320Neos do Air New Zealand still have on order? Any possibility any of them could be painted in a special livery? Would love to see the Star Alliance livery on one of the Neos.

No idea on NF A220s sorry.
NZ have no more A320NEOs on order but they do have 7 A321NEOs on order for the domestic fleet, not sure when these are coming now, 2023?

PA515 · Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:10 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ have no more A320NEOs on order but they do have 7 A321NEOs on order for the domestic fleet, not sure when these are coming now, 2023?

Delivery of the seven Domestic A321-271N as follows:
1. FY 2023 --- Jul 2022, delayed a month (was Jun 2022)
2. FY 2023 --- Aug or Sep 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
3. FY 2023 --- Sep or Oct 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
4. FY 2023 --- Jan to Mar 2023 (3rd Qtr FY 2023)
5. FY 2024 --- Jan to Mar 2024 (3rd Qtr FY 2024)
6. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)
7. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)

So four of them in the next 12 months.

PA515

NZ516 · Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:14 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Queenstown airport is expected to wait another 8 weeks before it sees an International flight. Even longer for an Air NZ Tasman flight

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstow ... 0o76b5q0uo

I hope someone in a position of authority finally gets this through their arrogant heads then... you can announce things all you like but it takes an awful long time for airlines to get operationally ready. You can't argue that "they knew it was coming" because basing decisions on rumours and verbal assurances isn't great business practice. I run in to this all the time with regulators - we won't move until it's on the books.

And still no word - unless I've missed it - on the removal of the transit and additional arrival taxes. Maybe this explains NZ sale fares one way to and from Oz being in the low to mid 200s rather than the mid to high 100s.

Yeah totally agree it's not like turning on a light switch and instantly going from zero to full on daily operations. Even CHC is only on 9 weekly Tasman flights split equally between MEL, SYD and BNE. Next one up is WLG I believe but it's not coming back to the old schedule overnight that's for sure that could take a year to happen.

NZ516 · Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:22 pm

PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ have no more A320NEOs on order but they do have 7 A321NEOs on order for the domestic fleet, not sure when these are coming now, 2023?

Delivery of the seven Domestic A321-271N as follows:
1. FY 2023 --- Jul 2022, delayed a month (was Jun 2022)
2. FY 2023 --- Aug or Sep 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
3. FY 2023 --- Sep or Oct 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
4. FY 2023 --- Jan to Mar 2023 (3rd Qtr FY 2023)
5. FY 2024 --- Jan to Mar 2024 (3rd Qtr FY 2024)
6. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)
7. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)

So four of them in the next 12 months.

PA515

Thanks for your useful list PA515. So the first one to come is just over 3 months away! Will these replace the oldest ones first eg OJM, OJQ, OJR, OJS and OAB? I will miss that OAB the black one but if it's time is up they won't stick around. We still don't know the domestic 321 seating plan it's not finalized yet.

a7ala · Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:20 pm

Sprite8806 wrote:
When are Air Vanuatu meant to get their A220s? They said back in 2020 that when they got their A220s they were gonna do a big route expansion and that included Wellington and Christchurch. But that was in 2020, so I don't know if that's still the plan. Also how many A320Neos do Air New Zealand still have on order? Any possibility any of them could be painted in a special livery? Would love to see the Star Alliance livery on one of the Neos.

I believe the Vanuatu government reviewed the order for the A220's and its either been cancelled or significant downgraded from 3 aircraft to 1 leaving no aircraft for significant expansion.

ZK-NBT · Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:19 pm

a7ala wrote:
Sprite8806 wrote:
When are Air Vanuatu meant to get their A220s? They said back in 2020 that when they got their A220s they were gonna do a big route expansion and that included Wellington and Christchurch. But that was in 2020, so I don't know if that's still the plan. Also how many A320Neos do Air New Zealand still have on order? Any possibility any of them could be painted in a special livery? Would love to see the Star Alliance livery on one of the Neos.

I believe the Vanuatu government reviewed the order for the A220's and its either been cancelled or significant downgraded from 3 aircraft to 1 leaving no aircraft for significant expansion.

That’s a shame if that is the case, it was actually 4 aircraft, i think 2 A221s and 2 A223s iirc? The 738 is probably a bit big really but cheaper to run than say a 73G.

PA515 · Tue Mar 29, 2022 12:07 am

NZ516 wrote:
PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ have no more A320NEOs on order but they do have 7 A321NEOs on order for the domestic fleet, not sure when these are coming now, 2023?

Delivery of the seven Domestic A321-271N as follows:
1. FY 2023 --- Jul 2022, delayed a month (was Jun 2022)
2. FY 2023 --- Aug or Sep 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
3. FY 2023 --- Sep or Oct 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
4. FY 2023 --- Jan to Mar 2023 (3rd Qtr FY 2023)
5. FY 2024 --- Jan to Mar 2024 (3rd Qtr FY 2024)
6. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)
7. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)

So four of them in the next 12 months.

PA515

Thanks for your useful list PA515. So the first one to come is just over 3 months away! Will these replace the oldest ones first eg OJM, OJQ, OJR, OJS and OAB? I will miss that OAB the black one but if it's time is up they won't stick around. We still don't know the domestic 321 seating plan it's not finalized yet.

The fuselage of the first Domestic A321-271N was sighted at Finkenwerder two months ago and is msn 10963. Nothing on the others yet.

My interpretation of Slide 32 of the 2022 Interim Analyst Presentation is that OJM will go in FY 2023, then either OJR and OJS or OAB and OJQ in FY 2024 and the remaining two in FY 2027.
https://p-airnz.com/cms/assets/PDFs/air ... tation.pdf

PA515

dhaliwal · Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:28 am

What was the last news on SQ bringing back SIN-MEL-WLG-MEL-SIN service ?
Can't seem to find news.

SCFlyer · Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:19 am

dhaliwal wrote:
What was the last news on SQ bringing back SIN-MEL-WLG-MEL-SIN service ?
Can't seem to find news.

Don't think there is any intermediate plans to resume the SIN-MEL/WLG for the foreseeable future considering there's been no official words (nor whisperings on Social Media/Wider Web forums).

ZK-NBT · Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:40 am

SCFlyer wrote:
dhaliwal wrote:
What was the last news on SQ bringing back SIN-MEL-WLG-MEL-SIN service ?
Can't seem to find news.

Don't think there is any intermediate plans to resume the SIN-MEL/WLG for the foreseeable future considering there's been no official words (nor whisperings on Social Media/Wider Web forums).

WLG was officially dropped with a few other destinations. Long term who knows but no plans for it to resume at this stage.

NZ6 · Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:08 am

dhaliwal wrote:
What was the last news on SQ bringing back SIN-MEL-WLG-MEL-SIN service ?
Can't seem to find news.

Like others have said, the plans are... there are no plans.

A quick google for you found this: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... ble-future There might be something more recent but it was two or three links down.

WLG-CBR itself was woeful if I trust my sources. WLG-MEL was better but clearly still not of any long term interest to SQ even with some form of support.

Yet some still talk of a WLG and long-haul flights in the same breath....

I would still be very surprised to see EK do something weird like DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB. If EK do go to WLG it'll be DXB-SYD-WLG-SYD-DXB on a 77W or similar..

PA515 · Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:03 am

PA515 wrote:
Delivery of the seven Domestic A321-271N as follows:
1. FY 2023 --- Jul 2022, delayed a month (was Jun 2022)
2. FY 2023 --- Aug or Sep 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
3. FY 2023 --- Sep or Oct 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
4. FY 2023 --- Jan to Mar 2023 (3rd Qtr FY 2023)
5. FY 2024 --- Jan to Mar 2024 (3rd Qtr FY 2024)
6. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)
7. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)

Correction to the above from Slide 19, 2021 Interim Analyst Presentation.
4. FY 2023 --- Apr to Jun 2023 (4th Qtr FY 2023)
5. FY 2024 --- Oct to Dec 2023 (2nd Qtr FY 2024)

https://p-airnz.com/cms/assets/PDFs/air ... tation.pdf

PA515

NZ516 · Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:48 pm

PA515 wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
PA515 wrote:

Delivery of the seven Domestic A321-271N as follows:
1. FY 2023 --- Jul 2022, delayed a month (was Jun 2022)
2. FY 2023 --- Aug or Sep 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
3. FY 2023 --- Sep or Oct 2022, delayed a month (was 1st Qtr FY 2023)
4. FY 2023 --- Jan to Mar 2023 (3rd Qtr FY 2023)
5. FY 2024 --- Jan to Mar 2024 (3rd Qtr FY 2024)
6. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)
7. FY 2027 --- Jul - Dec 2026 (my guess)

So four of them in the next 12 months.

PA515

Thanks for your useful list PA515. So the first one to come is just over 3 months away! Will these replace the oldest ones first eg OJM, OJQ, OJR, OJS and OAB? I will miss that OAB the black one but if it's time is up they won't stick around. We still don't know the domestic 321 seating plan it's not finalized yet.

The fuselage of the first Domestic A321-271N was sighted at Finkenwerder two months ago and is msn 10963. Nothing on the others yet.

My interpretation of Slide 32 of the 2022 Interim Analyst Presentation is that OJM will go in FY 2023, then either OJR and OJS or OAB and OJQ in FY 2024 and the remaining two in FY 2027.
https://p-airnz.com/cms/assets/PDFs/air ... tation.pdf

PA515

Interesting info. So what will be the remaining two in 2027 then?. Could it be the first sharklet ones OXA and OXB perhaps

NZ801 · Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:26 pm

The Herald is reporting HA will be back in July.

CraigAnderson · Tue Mar 29, 2022 10:31 pm

Early photos and details of Air New Zealand's new Boeing 787-9 and 787-10 business class have leaked, they include Business Premier Luxe suites at row 1 with more space and sliding doors.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ness-class

NZ801 · Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:54 pm

CraigAnderson wrote:
Early photos and details of Air New Zealand's new Boeing 787-9 and 787-10 business class have leaked, they include Business Premier Luxe suites at row 1 with more space and sliding doors.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ness-class

I’m not sure it’s a leak. It’s part of the regulatory program and I’m sure NZ knew the DoT would make it public. The pictures aren’t publicity shots and are pretty dull even if they give an idea of what is being planned there will still be surprises when it actually launches.

Kiwiandrew · Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:17 am

I can't vouch for the reliability of this article

https://paxex.aero/air-new-zealand-busi ... uxe-787-9/

But it suggests installation could start from "late April 2022".( Subject to regulatory approval)

nz2 · Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:26 am

Am I not seeing things clearly, it looks like another herring bone design, please tell me I am wrong or it is the old, original BP layout....!!

Kiwiandrew · Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:32 am

nz2 wrote:
Am I not seeing things clearly, it looks like another herring bone design, please tell me I am wrong or it is the old, original BP layout....!!

From the diagram it looks a lot less angled than current, but still "forwardish facing" rather than forward facing

ZK-NBT · Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:40 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
I can't vouch for the reliability of this article

https://paxex.aero/air-new-zealand-busi ... uxe-787-9/

But it suggests installation could start from "late April 2022".( Subject to regulatory approval)

That doesn’t seem right does it.

Saying 4 seats in row 1, I haven’t read the article properly but 38J seats so a big increase, I wonder how many aircraft to get that configuration? Enough for JFK and ORD initially?

Kiwiandrew · Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:49 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
I can't vouch for the reliability of this article

https://paxex.aero/air-new-zealand-busi ... uxe-787-9/

But it suggests installation could start from "late April 2022".( Subject to regulatory approval)

That doesn’t seem right does it.

Saying 4 seats in row 1, I haven’t read the article properly but 38J seats so a big increase, I wonder how many aircraft to get that configuration? Enough for JFK and ORD initially?

42 J seats, 38 is the number in premium economy

nz2 · Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:02 am

I see Etihad's version faces the window, not the aisle - has NZ not learned anything over the last 10-15 years in this regard?

Zkpilot · Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:09 am

Should weigh less while allowing for more business customers (and in better configuration and comfort). So a win-win situation especially for ULH flying.

zkncj · Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:52 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
I can't vouch for the reliability of this article

https://paxex.aero/air-new-zealand-busi ... uxe-787-9/

But it suggests installation could start from "late April 2022".( Subject to regulatory approval)

That doesn’t seem right does it.

Saying 4 seats in row 1, I haven’t read the article properly but 38J seats so a big increase, I wonder how many aircraft to get that configuration? Enough for JFK and ORD initially?

That seat map could be an 77W? that config in an 789 would seem pretty tight in a 1-2-1 config. The current J seat only fits into a 789 in 1-1-1...

That seatmap matches the current 77W config on NZ

Kiwiandrew · Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:20 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
I can't vouch for the reliability of this article

https://paxex.aero/air-new-zealand-busi ... uxe-787-9/

But it suggests installation could start from "late April 2022".( Subject to regulatory approval)

That doesn’t seem right does it.

Saying 4 seats in row 1, I haven’t read the article properly but 38J seats so a big increase, I wonder how many aircraft to get that configuration? Enough for JFK and ORD initially?

That seat map could be an 77W? that config in an 789 would seem pretty tight in a 1-2-1 config. The current J seat only fits into a 789 in 1-1-1...

That seatmap matches the current 77W config on NZ

DOH! You're right, that's the current 77W seat map, I can't believe I didn't recognize it. I did think it would be "challenging" to fit 4 abreast in the 787. If they showed the wrong seat map what else is wrong in the article ?

smartplane · Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:36 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

That doesn’t seem right does it.

Saying 4 seats in row 1, I haven’t read the article properly but 38J seats so a big increase, I wonder how many aircraft to get that configuration? Enough for JFK and ORD initially?

That seat map could be an 77W? that config in an 789 would seem pretty tight in a 1-2-1 config. The current J seat only fits into a 789 in 1-1-1...

That seatmap matches the current 77W config on NZ

DOH! You're right, that's the current 77W seat map, I can't believe I didn't recognize it. I did think it would be "challenging" to fit 4 abreast in the 787. If they showed the wrong seat map what else is wrong in the article ?

Taking 9's in lieu of 10's?

dhaliwal · Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:39 am

nz2 wrote:
I see Etihad's version faces the window, not the aisle - has NZ not learned anything over the last 10-15 years in this regard?

Clearly not.

They refuse the idea of people wanting more privacy especially their highest paying clients.

tullamarine · Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:20 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

That doesn’t seem right does it.

Saying 4 seats in row 1, I haven’t read the article properly but 38J seats so a big increase, I wonder how many aircraft to get that configuration? Enough for JFK and ORD initially?

That seat map could be an 77W? that config in an 789 would seem pretty tight in a 1-2-1 config. The current J seat only fits into a 789 in 1-1-1...

That seatmap matches the current 77W config on NZ

DOH! You're right, that's the current 77W seat map, I can't believe I didn't recognize it. I did think it would be "challenging" to fit 4 abreast in the 787. If they showed the wrong seat map what else is wrong in the article ?

4 abreast with the Collins Super Diamond on a 787 is quite easily achieved. VA got 4 abreast with the same seat onboard its A332s which have a narrower cross-section than the 787.

CraigAnderson · Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:39 am

NZ801 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Early photos and details of Air New Zealand's new Boeing 787-9 and 787-10 business class have leaked, they include Business Premier Luxe suites at row 1 with more space and sliding doors.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ness-class

I’m not sure it’s a leak. It’s part of the regulatory program and I’m sure NZ knew the DoT would make it public. The pictures aren’t publicity shots and are pretty dull even if they give an idea of what is being planned there will still be surprises when it actually launches.

Apparently the DoT was not supposed too make it public, it was accidentally published 'into the public domain' and has now been taken down by DoT.

ZK-NBT · Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:55 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

That doesn’t seem right does it.

Saying 4 seats in row 1, I haven’t read the article properly but 38J seats so a big increase, I wonder how many aircraft to get that configuration? Enough for JFK and ORD initially?

That seat map could be an 77W? that config in an 789 would seem pretty tight in a 1-2-1 config. The current J seat only fits into a 789 in 1-1-1...

That seatmap matches the current 77W config on NZ

DOH! You're right, that's the current 77W seat map, I can't believe I didn't recognize it. I did think it would be "challenging" to fit 4 abreast in the 787. If they showed the wrong seat map what else is wrong in the article ?

The 77W has 44J and 54W, if what we are looking at is 42J, 38W then it is different, i am confused. So what about the rest of the existing J cabin? Time for a complete revamp? Or are they simply going to add Luxe or what ever they call it? Seems it was a leak anyway so I am sure we will find out soon enough.

ZK-NBT · Wed Mar 30, 2022 6:10 am

smartplane wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:
zkncj wrote:

That seat map could be an 77W? that config in an 789 would seem pretty tight in a 1-2-1 config. The current J seat only fits into a 789 in 1-1-1...

That seatmap matches the current 77W config on NZ

DOH! You're right, that's the current 77W seat map, I can't believe I didn't recognize it. I did think it would be "challenging" to fit 4 abreast in the 787. If they showed the wrong seat map what else is wrong in the article ?

Taking 9's in lieu of 10's?

It has been said that the first 2 10s were converted to 9's. I wonder which if the current 789s will be converted first, will it be the existing code 2 aircraft or the older code 1 aircraft, are they capable of routes like AKL-JFK being earlier aircraft once re configured?

mrkerr7474 · Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:16 am

dhaliwal wrote:
nz2 wrote:
I see Etihad's version faces the window, not the aisle - has NZ not learned anything over the last 10-15 years in this regard?

Clearly not.

They refuse the idea of people wanting more privacy especially their highest paying clients.

It's a pity they continue down this path of seats facing the aisle. You'd have thought after so many designs, hours and years choosing a seat, they'd come up with something better than this and allow for more privacy. A bit of a shame really!

zkncj · Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:05 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Kiwiandrew wrote:

DOH! You're right, that's the current 77W seat map, I can't believe I didn't recognize it. I did think it would be "challenging" to fit 4 abreast in the 787. If they showed the wrong seat map what else is wrong in the article ?

Taking 9's in lieu of 10's?

It has been said that the first 2 10s were converted to 9's. I wonder which if the current 789s will be converted first, will it be the existing code 2 aircraft or the older code 1 aircraft, are they capable of routes like AKL-JFK being earlier aircraft once re configured?

It would be interesting to know if there is much empty weight between the code 1 & code 2 config with out seat’s installed.

Assuming that some of the code 1’s being very early build 789s, are slightly heavier? And missing some of the enhancements of later builds?

NZ801 · Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:15 am

mrkerr7474 wrote:
dhaliwal wrote:
nz2 wrote:
I see Etihad's version faces the window, not the aisle - has NZ not learned anything over the last 10-15 years in this regard?

Clearly not.

They refuse the idea of people wanting more privacy especially their highest paying clients.

It's a pity they continue down this path of seats facing the aisle. You'd have thought after so many designs, hours and years choosing a seat, they'd come up with something better than this and allow for more privacy. A bit of a shame really!

You have to remember that they have spent quite some time getting feedback from their high valued customers and frequent travellers etc. It’s not as if they are making these decisions in a staff bubble. And you can’t be all things to all people.

NZ321 · Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:49 am

nz2 wrote:
Am I not seeing things clearly, it looks like another herring bone design, please tell me I am wrong or it is the old, original BP layout....!!

My thoughts precisely. Please let it not be herringbone.

Deepinsider · Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:25 am

Playing to egos, I would say the high value customers are so entranced by their selection to
advise NZ on it's plans, and together with possible goodwill rewards (special lounge ,etc.) it
will be a bit like Mr Putin, they will tell what they are expected say.
Surely, NZ decision makers just have to whizz around a bit on a selection of premium carriers,
and at way less cost than a special 'hanger' it will be abundantly obvious what the industry
premium looks like. Choose a good one, add NZ's world class service, and never look back.

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