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Zkpilot
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New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:39 am

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread- March 2022. Please continue to post your comments below

Link to the last thread
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1469969
 
x1234
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 1:49 am

NZ is proving pre-COVID lucrative North America routes yields to return. I hope AKL-EWR/JFK happens one day so NZ can take SYD-AKL-EWR/JFK traffic. NZ was the carrier of choice for IAH-AKL-PER energy/oil travel before UA started IAH-SYD. I also hope AKL-EZE returns too.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:50 am

Busy day on MEL-AKL? two flights this afternoon both by 789s only half and hour apart (NZ124, NZ128).
Both an normal flight numbers, so assuming these are both passenger flights?

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ124/2b076559
https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ128/2b075122
 
NZ801
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:13 am

x1234 wrote:
NZ is proving pre-COVID lucrative North America routes yields to return. I hope AKL-EWR/JFK happens one day so NZ can take SYD-AKL-EWR/JFK traffic. NZ was the carrier of choice for IAH-AKL-PER energy/oil travel before UA started IAH-SYD. I also hope AKL-EZE returns too.


New York before the end of the year.
EZE won’t be back.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:37 am

Plenty of Freighter action for the spotters going on ATM bringing in RATS.

CX 2X 748
National Airways 5x 744BCF
SQ 2-3 additional 744F

I believe there are more to come.

QR have changed to a DOH-ADL-AKL routing on the A359 3x weekly on the PAX side.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:00 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Plenty of Freighter action for the spotters going on ATM bringing in RATS.

CX 2X 748
National Airways 5x 744BCF
SQ 2-3 additional 744F

I believe there are more to come.

QR have changed to a DOH-ADL-AKL routing on the A359 3x weekly on the PAX side.


Now that Passengers can flow both ways on the Tasman (well not Australian Passports just yet), if CI will bring back the AKL-BNE-TPE service? currently they are running AKL-TPE non-stop. Think that might an an freight only service?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:10 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
Plenty of Freighter action for the spotters going on ATM bringing in RATS.

CX 2X 748
National Airways 5x 744BCF
SQ 2-3 additional 744F

I believe there are more to come.

QR have changed to a DOH-ADL-AKL routing on the A359 3x weekly on the PAX side.


Now that Passengers can flow both ways on the Tasman (well not Australian Passports just yet), if CI will bring back the AKL-BNE-TPE service? currently they are running AKL-TPE non-stop. Think that might an an freight only service?



Not sure on CI returning to AKL-BNE, one reason they did it pre covid was they couldn’t do AKL with a single aircraft, going through BNE means they need 2 aircraft but also means BNE is overnight in both directions. The best AKL can do is how they have it now, arrives 1600 leaves 2200. I’m guessing they are 95% freight only at least.

LA are returning to AKL-SYD at the end of March, no idea if they have local fifth freedom rights for the moment?

I wonder what sort of changes we will see? Some going back to Tasman ops to cover AKL and an Australian port? And others going non stop to AKL over going via Australia? I think QR will go non stop DOH-AKL when they can myself. EK are currently planning for July to go DXB-AKL non stop again, on a 77L.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:22 am

EK looks to be moving to non-stop AKL-DXB flights on the 77L from 4 July (currently runs as AKL-KUL-DXB on the 77W). Interesting the 388 isn't scheduled to make a return here (yet) - they're sending them to BNE, SYD and MEL, but not PER. I'm sure the 388 will make a comeback in due course - it will just depend on when tourists can return here.

zkncj wrote:
Now that Passengers can flow both ways on the Tasman (well not Australian Passports just yet), if CI will bring back the AKL-BNE-TPE service? currently they are running AKL-TPE non-stop. Think that might an an freight only service?

I think the CI service is open to passengers, once per month (next one is TPE-AKL on 16 March, and AKL-TPE on 17 March). CI said pre-pandemic that AKL was difficult with utilisation, given it was more than a 24 hour rotation from TPE - utilisation via BNE was better. But, I do hope they'll work to now maintain the non-stop AKL-TPE passenger service.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:44 am

The EK 388 will be back to AKL in due course, it is the only other frame currently in EK’s fleet that can make AKL-DXB. They do have A359s on order, not sure on the exact plan for those while the 779/789 on order I doubt could carry a viable load. The A380s will I would think be back soon enough.

They were planned to return to CHC via SYD, not 100% sure what the latest date for that is. CHC might be interesting going forward as to what they do wi the it, pre covid I thought a 77L non stop from DXB might be looked at, maybe a service through Asia somewhere like KUL/BKK might be considered? I think they wanted AKL-BKK rather than DPS initially but slots were an issue or something at BKK? Be interesting to see if AKL-DPS returns? I am thinking they might try another port.
 
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seat55a
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:31 am

Hoping someone here remembers this. At Polynesian Pools in Rotorua there is an artwork said to be originally from NZ DC10. It's a painted bas relief of sailing canoes. It's two pieces mounted together and is about 4m total width x 1.8m high. I don't see where this could have fit in the cabin. Definitely too wide for between aisles. This bugs me every time I see it (mildly obsessive ;) )
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:36 am

ZK-NBT wrote:

They were planned to return to CHC via SYD, not 100% sure what the latest date for that is. CHC might be interesting going forward as to what they do wi the it, pre covid I thought a 77L non stop from DXB might be looked at, maybe a service through Asia somewhere like KUL/BKK might be considered?


I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?

Otherwise other option might be to link CHC with WLG as a DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB triangle. Combing two markets should give them enough demand to link directly to DXB hub. And CHC + WLG markets complimentary - CHC has volume over the summer but lacks yield, WLG has a more even though lower profile throughout the year but higher yielding helps the low season. Gives both ports non-stop DXB in one direction, and same country transit in the other (which avoids the third country issues you face in Australia or Asia).
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:03 am

a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

They were planned to return to CHC via SYD, not 100% sure what the latest date for that is. CHC might be interesting going forward as to what they do wi the it, pre covid I thought a 77L non stop from DXB might be looked at, maybe a service through Asia somewhere like KUL/BKK might be considered?


I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?

Otherwise other option might be to link CHC with WLG as a DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB triangle. Combing two markets should give them enough demand to link directly to DXB hub. And CHC + WLG markets complimentary - CHC has volume over the summer but lacks yield, WLG has a more even though lower profile throughout the year but higher yielding helps the low season. Gives both ports non-stop DXB in one direction, and same country transit in the other (which avoids the third country issues you face in Australia or Asia).


Crewing might be hard that way, given it is such a long flight? I thought maybe initially extend AKL to CHC. WLG is interesting would have to be a 77L as that is the biggest WLG could take and the only aircraft that could do non stop inbound only obviously.

Most of EK flights are daily although I think there were a few sub daily flights within Asia or more 10/12 weekly rather than double daily. Maybe a second AKL flight that could be extended, weather it is via Asia or non stop DXB-AKL maybe 4 weekly AKL-CHC and 3 weekly AKL-WLG, again WLG needs a 77L.

They may go back to SYD-CHC on an A380, I always thought the 77W would be better for CHC given it is a lot more efficient especially on a route like SYD-CHC smaller pax capacity and larger freight capacity which the South Island often seems to need. They get what SYD gets at the end of the day.

I am sure years ago they looked at AKL-NAN on an A345? Along with AKL-LAX/EZE.

I think CHC is probably best served via Asia somewhere like BKK/KUL that isn’t served from CHC on a 77W?

And I don’t imagine they will go back to the Tasman ex AKL given QF can operate it for them. I always thought the first route would actually be AKL-PER given PER was fairly new and was less than daily when it first started, they never flew that ever, perhaps PER-CHC? NZ fly or flew that seasonally.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:10 am

IMO, I would think CHC may be better suited to be served via a SE Asian city, or alternatively OOL or CNS a few times a week, rather than a daily A380 via SYD.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:58 am

a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

They were planned to return to CHC via SYD, not 100% sure what the latest date for that is. CHC might be interesting going forward as to what they do wi the it, pre covid I thought a 77L non stop from DXB might be looked at, maybe a service through Asia somewhere like KUL/BKK might be considered?


I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?
.

Flying via Australia for many years wasn’t to “give them confidence” it wasn’t by choice. It was only when they had suitable aircraft to operate the non-stop ULH flight that they started it.
If EK drops Tasman flights then absolutely CHC can handle and sustain a direct flight to DXB.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:28 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

They were planned to return to CHC via SYD, not 100% sure what the latest date for that is. CHC might be interesting going forward as to what they do wi the it, pre covid I thought a 77L non stop from DXB might be looked at, maybe a service through Asia somewhere like KUL/BKK might be considered?


I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?
.

Flying via Australia for many years wasn’t to “give them confidence” it wasn’t by choice. It was only when they had suitable aircraft to operate the non-stop ULH flight that they started it.
If EK drops Tasman flights then absolutely CHC can handle and sustain a direct flight to DXB.


Even if they started of CHC 3-4x weekly non-stop, compared to the previous services via Australia. That probably be better off?

Maybe not for the CHC-Australia market, which would have reduced competition.

It’s yet to be seen if VA will return to New Zealand.
 
a7ala
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:21 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

They were planned to return to CHC via SYD, not 100% sure what the latest date for that is. CHC might be interesting going forward as to what they do wi the it, pre covid I thought a 77L non stop from DXB might be looked at, maybe a service through Asia somewhere like KUL/BKK might be considered?


I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?
.

Flying via Australia for many years wasn’t to “give them confidence” it wasn’t by choice. It was only when they had suitable aircraft to operate the non-stop ULH flight that they started it.
If EK drops Tasman flights then absolutely CHC can handle and sustain a direct flight to DXB.


EK has had the A380 since 2008 and the 200LR for even longer so they had the aircraft capability almost 10 years before they started DXB-AKL. CHC has a very small European market. Its outbound market is smaller than WLG, but its does get a lot of inbound visitors but its very peaky with a high concentration over the summer. Even then its yields are the lowest of the 3 main airports and would be unlikely to support what is an extremely expensive sector to fly.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:41 pm

Speaking about CHC the airport made a small profit last year by the smallest of margins. At $41,000 at least it's not a loss unlike many other tourism businesses.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/ ... app-iPhone
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:50 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
a7ala wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

They were planned to return to CHC via SYD, not 100% sure what the latest date for that is. CHC might be interesting going forward as to what they do wi the it, pre covid I thought a 77L non stop from DXB might be looked at, maybe a service through Asia somewhere like KUL/BKK might be considered?


I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?

Otherwise other option might be to link CHC with WLG as a DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB triangle. Combing two markets should give them enough demand to link directly to DXB hub. And CHC + WLG markets complimentary - CHC has volume over the summer but lacks yield, WLG has a more even though lower profile throughout the year but higher yielding helps the low season. Gives both ports non-stop DXB in one direction, and same country transit in the other (which avoids the third country issues you face in Australia or Asia).


Crewing might be hard that way, given it is such a long flight? I thought maybe initially extend AKL to CHC. WLG is interesting would have to be a 77L as that is the biggest WLG could take and the only aircraft that could do non stop inbound only obviously.

Most of EK flights are daily although I think there were a few sub daily flights within Asia or more 10/12 weekly rather than double daily. Maybe a second AKL flight that could be extended, weather it is via Asia or non stop DXB-AKL maybe 4 weekly AKL-CHC and 3 weekly AKL-WLG, again WLG needs a 77L.

They may go back to SYD-CHC on an A380, I always thought the 77W would be better for CHC given it is a lot more efficient especially on a route like SYD-CHC smaller pax capacity and larger freight capacity which the South Island often seems to need. They get what SYD gets at the end of the day.

I am sure years ago they looked at AKL-NAN on an A345? Along with AKL-LAX/EZE.

I think CHC is probably best served via Asia somewhere like BKK/KUL that isn’t served from CHC on a 77W?

And I don’t imagine they will go back to the Tasman ex AKL given QF can operate it for them. I always thought the first route would actually be AKL-PER given PER was fairly new and was less than daily when it first started, they never flew that ever, perhaps PER-CHC? NZ fly or flew that seasonally.


I can't ever see EK going non stop DXB to CHC too long and thin market for them . It will most likely return a tag on from SYD plus they bring a lot of freight in from Aust which makes it worth while.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:53 pm

NZ516 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
a7ala wrote:

I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?

Otherwise other option might be to link CHC with WLG as a DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB triangle. Combing two markets should give them enough demand to link directly to DXB hub. And CHC + WLG markets complimentary - CHC has volume over the summer but lacks yield, WLG has a more even though lower profile throughout the year but higher yielding helps the low season. Gives both ports non-stop DXB in one direction, and same country transit in the other (which avoids the third country issues you face in Australia or Asia).


Crewing might be hard that way, given it is such a long flight? I thought maybe initially extend AKL to CHC. WLG is interesting would have to be a 77L as that is the biggest WLG could take and the only aircraft that could do non stop inbound only obviously.

Most of EK flights are daily although I think there were a few sub daily flights within Asia or more 10/12 weekly rather than double daily. Maybe a second AKL flight that could be extended, weather it is via Asia or non stop DXB-AKL maybe 4 weekly AKL-CHC and 3 weekly AKL-WLG, again WLG needs a 77L.

They may go back to SYD-CHC on an A380, I always thought the 77W would be better for CHC given it is a lot more efficient especially on a route like SYD-CHC smaller pax capacity and larger freight capacity which the South Island often seems to need. They get what SYD gets at the end of the day.

I am sure years ago they looked at AKL-NAN on an A345? Along with AKL-LAX/EZE.

I think CHC is probably best served via Asia somewhere like BKK/KUL that isn’t served from CHC on a 77W?

And I don’t imagine they will go back to the Tasman ex AKL given QF can operate it for them. I always thought the first route would actually be AKL-PER given PER was fairly new and was less than daily when it first started, they never flew that ever, perhaps PER-CHC? NZ fly or flew that seasonally.


I can't ever see EK going non stop DXB to CHC too long and thin market for them . It will most likely return a tag on from SYD plus they bring a lot of freight in from Aust which makes it worth while.


Who knows? They had a lot of freight ex AKL on the Tasman, the 77W is a freight beast but they ended up being all A380. Better off to use QF and run a flight through An unserved south East Asian port to CHC like BKK/KUL with a 77W?
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:00 pm

a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:

I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?
.

Flying via Australia for many years wasn’t to “give them confidence” it wasn’t by choice. It was only when they had suitable aircraft to operate the non-stop ULH flight that they started it.
If EK drops Tasman flights then absolutely CHC can handle and sustain a direct flight to DXB.


EK has had the A380 since 2008 and the 200LR for even longer so they had the aircraft capability almost 10 years before they started DXB-AKL. CHC has a very small European market. Its outbound market is smaller than WLG, but its does get a lot of inbound visitors but its very peaky with a high concentration over the summer. Even then its yields are the lowest of the 3 main airports and would be unlikely to support what is an extremely expensive sector to fly.

During which time they were building up their fleet and had more pressing routes to use them on. Not too mention the aircraft themselves improved over time (Pips etc).
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:48 am

Regarding the comment "give them confidence" - has anyone here stopped and considered EK isn't exactly the type of airline who sits back and waits for confidence?

There's probably a number of reasons. QR/EY threat, QF/EK alliance, overall network growth here and NZ, fleet expansion.. you name it. I highly doubt EK dipped their toe in the water half baked before deciding to go all in.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:58 am

a7ala wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
a7ala wrote:

I dont think CHC market was big enough even prior to Covid to justify a non-stop. Remember it took EK many years of flying via Australia into AKL to give them the confidence to do it. Combining CHC with another market is still the best way, either with SYD, or as you say somewhere in Asia. They used to serve DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC back in the day so maybe a DXB-BKK-CHC?
.

Flying via Australia for many years wasn’t to “give them confidence” it wasn’t by choice. It was only when they had suitable aircraft to operate the non-stop ULH flight that they started it.
If EK drops Tasman flights then absolutely CHC can handle and sustain a direct flight to DXB.


EK has had the A380 since 2008 and the 200LR for even longer so they had the aircraft capability almost 10 years before they started DXB-AKL. CHC has a very small European market. Its outbound market is smaller than WLG, but its does get a lot of inbound visitors but its very peaky with a high concentration over the summer. Even then its yields are the lowest of the 3 main airports and would be unlikely to support what is an extremely expensive sector to fly.


The A345 probably could have done it as well, probably restricted on the AKL-DXB leg. But at the time they didn’t have many of them, only 10 and a fast growing network so they were needed on other routes at the time as someone mentioned.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:06 am

Have been looking at booking BNE-AKL this month, from the 8 March to the 20 March NZ looks like they are completely sold out in Y. After than for the rest of the month the availability is patch and Seat Only fares $600-700 Oneway.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:01 am

zkncj wrote:
Busy day on MEL-AKL? two flights this afternoon both by 789s only half and hour apart (NZ124, NZ128).
Both an normal flight numbers, so assuming these are both passenger flights?

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ124/2b076559
https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ128/2b075122


Perhaps the first one had been delayed so they ended up arriving only 30 mins apart.
 
NZ801
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 3:35 am

I’m hearing that EK have cancelled all A380 services from CHC for the remainder of the year. An update will be provided in December.

Is this also true for AKL?
Can anyone confirm?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:11 am

NZ801 wrote:
I’m hearing that EK have cancelled all A380 services from CHC for the remainder of the year. An update will be provided in December.

Is this also true for AKL?
Can anyone confirm?


Not sure, December is years away anything could happen by then. Is it possible you heard they will now not return to CHC until December maybe?

I can’t confirm anything, although I would have thought myself if things are going smoothly that AKL would see the A380 by the end of the year. Complete guess work though.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:38 am

NZ801 wrote:
EZE won’t be back

Now LA is out of oneWorld (happened in 2020) and is re-starting AKL, what about NZ slapping its code on their SCL service?
 
NZ321
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:31 am

CX is still in OneWorld and NZ have slapped their code on CX metal for years; what makes LA so much more attractive now they have left OneWorld - compared to before? Perhaps, NZ not intending to return any time soon to South America? LA being the only airline operating between NZ and South America? Makes sense.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:29 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
NZ801 wrote:
EZE won’t be back

Now LA is out of oneWorld (happened in 2020) and is re-starting AKL, what about NZ slapping its code on their SCL service?


There's a lot wrong with this suggestion,

Firstly, Airlines don't just slap on it's code.

Secondly, LA didn't need to be out of the Star Alliance - CX is evidence of that.

Thirdly. what type of agreement would NZ/LA be looking for? - code sharing offers very little benefit by itself. An air share alliance, these are old but it commits to NZ filling an agreed number of seats and the more common alliance these days is a revenue share. Both expose NZ to the risk of high cost and low revenue.

Finally we're coming out of a 2+ year global pandemic. NZ has burnt it's cash reserves and is operating on a "loan". Why would NZ enter an agreement with another carrier on developing market which a track record and marginal performance especially given NZ has already stated it's moving away from South America for the time being.

Surely NZ's long-haul priority is to rebuild North America followed by key Asian routes.

They need to sort out this loan (however they agree to do it) then rebuild some cash in the business before even considering venturing out on new high risk ventures. Aside from that, there's a product refit on the cards and new aircraft commitments to see through.

Hopefully we're not going back to the old days of things like AKL-MEX-Europe being a serious route suggestion etc.
 
SFwatchTower
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:02 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:46 am

ZK-NZK did not make the return trip SFO-AKL as NZ1007 last night March 8, 2022 20:30 SFO time.

ZK-NZN is making the return trip as NZ6177 - https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6177/2b122728

Hopefully NZ Kilo is okay.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:38 am

WIAL taking NZTA and WCC to court over a pedestrian crossing as WCC and NZTA decided not to burden taxpayers with an expensive overbridge. https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/n ... n-crossing

I know I'll probably be in the minority here. But if 15 or so seconds are so vital to WIAL then they probably shouldn't be in business. Or they can pay for the construction, maintenance, and future removal of a proper flyover.
 
NZ801
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:39 am

SFwatchTower wrote:
ZK-NZK did not make the return trip SFO-AKL as NZ1007 last night March 8, 2022 20:30 SFO time.

ZK-NZN is making the return trip as NZ6177 - https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6177/2b122728

Hopefully NZ Kilo is okay.


It’s not yet 20:30 on March 8 in SFO.
 
SFwatchTower
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:02 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:14 am

NZ801 wrote:
SFwatchTower wrote:
ZK-NZK did not make the return trip SFO-AKL as NZ1007 last night March 8, 2022 20:30 SFO time.

ZK-NZN is making the return trip as NZ6177 - https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6177/2b122728

Hopefully NZ Kilo is okay.


It’s not yet 20:30 on March 8 in SFO.


oh boy i've got my dates and times all mixed up haha.
 
nz2
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 4:59 am

seat55a wrote:
Hoping someone here remembers this. At Polynesian Pools in Rotorua there is an artwork said to be originally from NZ DC10. It's a painted bas relief of sailing canoes. It's two pieces mounted together and is about 4m total width x 1.8m high. I don't see where this could have fit in the cabin. Definitely too wide for between aisles. This bugs me every time I see it (mildly obsessive ;) )


Old family friends ran the Poly Pools back in the 70's and yes I recall when it was revamped with the "DC-10" mural, I spent a couple of school holidays working there and used to marvel at the mural, imagining being on the big 10! Cant vouch for the authenticity claim but certainly that was the story at the time by very learned people. Possibly it was across the front of the main cabin and aisles were cut out of it? At 4m wide it certainly can fit ...
 
Toenga
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:43 am

nz2 wrote:
seat55a wrote:
Hoping someone here remembers this. At Polynesian Pools in Rotorua there is an artwork said to be originally from NZ DC10. It's a painted bas relief of sailing canoes. It's two pieces mounted together and is about 4m total width x 1.8m high. I don't see where this could have fit in the cabin. Definitely too wide for between aisles. This bugs me every time I see it (mildly obsessive ;) )


Old family friends ran the Poly Pools back in the 70's and yes I recall when it was revamped with the "DC-10" mural, I spent a couple of school holidays working there and used to marvel at the mural, imagining being on the big 10! Cant vouch for the authenticity claim but certainly that was the story at the time by very learned people. Possibly it was across the front of the main cabin and aisles were cut out of it? At 4m wide it certainly can fit ...


Or was the Poly Pools piece the original art work that got reproduced in a number of settings, behind air NZ check in counters for one, perhaps and on DC10 bulkheads? I don't know
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:36 pm

Interesting rumor from ZKAviation that Emirates is investigating a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service. https://www.facebook.com/ZKaviation/pos ... 8911591444

ZKaviation News
Emirates are looking at doing a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service with their Boeing 777-200(LR) aircraft. No idea yet of the frequency of the service, or when it might begin. 9MAR22
 
Mr AirNZ
Posts: 935
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 10:24 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:10 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Interesting rumor from ZKAviation that Emirates is investigating a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service. https://www.facebook.com/ZKaviation/pos ... 8911591444

ZKaviation News
Emirates are looking at doing a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service with their Boeing 777-200(LR) aircraft. No idea yet of the frequency of the service, or when it might begin. 9MAR22

The sceptic in me says this is one of those classic A.Net examples of someone reading something on here, posting it somewhere else and then A.Net "grabs" that post as validation of the initial idea.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:27 pm

Mr AirNZ wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Interesting rumor from ZKAviation that Emirates is investigating a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service. https://www.facebook.com/ZKaviation/pos ... 8911591444

ZKaviation News
Emirates are looking at doing a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service with their Boeing 777-200(LR) aircraft. No idea yet of the frequency of the service, or when it might begin. 9MAR22

The sceptic in me says this is one of those classic A.Net examples of someone reading something on here, posting it somewhere else and then A.Net "grabs" that post as validation of the initial idea.


There's a reason I tagged it as rumor. ;)
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9419
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:39 pm

Mr AirNZ wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Interesting rumor from ZKAviation that Emirates is investigating a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service. https://www.facebook.com/ZKaviation/pos ... 8911591444

ZKaviation News
Emirates are looking at doing a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service with their Boeing 777-200(LR) aircraft. No idea yet of the frequency of the service, or when it might begin. 9MAR22

The sceptic in me says this is one of those classic A.Net examples of someone reading something on here, posting it somewhere else and then A.Net "grabs" that post as validation of the initial idea.


I Agree. I enjoy speculating, sometimes it tends to go to far and become rumour then fact
 
a7ala
Posts: 511
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:33 pm

Mr AirNZ wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Interesting rumor from ZKAviation that Emirates is investigating a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service. https://www.facebook.com/ZKaviation/pos ... 8911591444

ZKaviation News
Emirates are looking at doing a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service with their Boeing 777-200(LR) aircraft. No idea yet of the frequency of the service, or when it might begin. 9MAR22

The sceptic in me says this is one of those classic A.Net examples of someone reading something on here, posting it somewhere else and then A.Net "grabs" that post as validation of the initial idea.


Interesting they say its from a confidential source so doesnt sounds like it came from here. Will wait and see.
 
texan
Posts: 4081
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:00 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
WIAL taking NZTA and WCC to court over a pedestrian crossing as WCC and NZTA decided not to burden taxpayers with an expensive overbridge. https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/n ... n-crossing

I know I'll probably be in the minority here. But if 15 or so seconds are so vital to WIAL then they probably shouldn't be in business. Or they can pay for the construction, maintenance, and future removal of a proper flyover.


Agree with you. WIAL made a bad faith argument. And bridges over roads rarely work to improve pedestrian or cyclist safety--because they are cumbersome and add much more than 15 seconds to the walker/cyclist commute, people ignore the bridge and continue to cross the road in the more convenient place.

When I lived in Wellington, I used to walk or cycle to the airport whenever possible. Crossing Cobham scared me to death. Many people do it--dangerously--now.

Texan
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:25 am

a7ala wrote:
Mr AirNZ wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Interesting rumor from ZKAviation that Emirates is investigating a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service. https://www.facebook.com/ZKaviation/pos ... 8911591444


The sceptic in me says this is one of those classic A.Net examples of someone reading something on here, posting it somewhere else and then A.Net "grabs" that post as validation of the initial idea.


Interesting they say its from a confidential source so doesnt sounds like it came from here. Will wait and see.


Yeah, it passes the plausibility test so I'm happy to sit and wait. We know SQ was able to operate into and out of WLG with such an aircraft. And it would be nice to have such a connection through to Europe and elsewhere as I'm in Welly.
 
a7ala
Posts: 511
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:40 am

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
a7ala wrote:
Mr AirNZ wrote:
The sceptic in me says this is one of those classic A.Net examples of someone reading something on here, posting it somewhere else and then A.Net "grabs" that post as validation of the initial idea.


Interesting they say its from a confidential source so doesnt sounds like it came from here. Will wait and see.


Yeah, it passes the plausibility test so I'm happy to sit and wait. We know SQ was able to operate into and out of WLG with such an aircraft. And it would be nice to have such a connection through to Europe and elsewhere as I'm in Welly.


There were always issues with EK serving CHC via Australia:
- Additional stop in OZ after an annoying 3 hour sector
- For many countries where EK has almost 100% market share visitors would require transit Visa's in OZ even if they are in the terminal for 90mins

Obviously would be a big win for WLG. But also presumably a win for CHC with a non-stop outbound, 1 stop inbound but in the same country. Yes they would lose their Tasman EK service, but presumably partner QF would backfill SYD in some way. Also would lose outbound cargo capability (not sure how much the LR can carry on ULH sector), but if CHC cargo is so good bring some freighters down.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4782
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:00 am

Is there really enough demand for EK at WLG? SQ was subsidized by WCC and couldn't make it work (though I appreciate there would be some differences with the EK service).
 
a7ala
Posts: 511
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:28 am

planemanofnz wrote:
Is there really enough demand for EK at WLG? SQ was subsidized by WCC and couldn't make it work (though I appreciate there would be some differences with the EK service).


Why do you say SQ couldnt make WLG work? Prior to Covid they upgraded the aircraft to the A350-900, then increase frequency from 4 to 5pw saying they planned to go daily. They withdrew from WLG because of Covid as there was no market to serve flying via Australia and consolidated on AKL/CHC (mostly for cargo) where they could fly non-stop and avoid Australia.

And as for subsidised by council - it was a small amount of money used for marketing as all regions do to support new services. Nothing out of the ordinary apart from someone in the council wanted to make abig deal about it!
 
NZ6
Posts: 2234
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:13 am

a7ala wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
Is there really enough demand for EK at WLG? SQ was subsidized by WCC and couldn't make it work (though I appreciate there would be some differences with the EK service).


Why do you say SQ couldnt make WLG work? Prior to Covid they upgraded the aircraft to the A350-900, then increase frequency from 4 to 5pw saying they planned to go daily. They withdrew from WLG because of Covid as there was no market to serve flying via Australia and consolidated on AKL/CHC (mostly for cargo) where they could fly non-stop and avoid Australia.

And as for subsidised by council - it was a small amount of money used for marketing as all regions do to support new services. Nothing out of the ordinary apart from someone in the council wanted to make abig deal about it!


WLG-CBR was always the wrong route on the Tasman and arguably they couldn't make that work, we can assume this based on the switch to MEL.

If WLG and or SQ were looking to connect Wellington with the world via Asia any benefit was immediately cancelled with a stop in Australia as it brough into play the vast array of options via AKL, depending on your destination sometimes better connections or at least better competition on price. WLG-MEL-SIN-FRA vs WLG-AKL-SIN-FRA, WLG-AKL-HKG-FRA, WLG-AKL-PVG-FRA, WLG-AKL-ICN-FRA, WLG-AKL-KUL-FRA, WLG-AKL-BKK-FRA.. you can see where I'm going.

EK will have a slight advantage on the inbound leg if it's direct from DXB. I do wonder what this means for CHC. Will there be an additional DXB-CHC or DXB-CHC flight or is the inbound flight now via WLG. It would seem mad to send the inbound via WLG even if it was instead of SYD.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9419
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:20 am

a7ala wrote:
Mr AirNZ wrote:
ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Interesting rumor from ZKAviation that Emirates is investigating a Dubai-Wellington-Christchurch-Dubai service. https://www.facebook.com/ZKaviation/pos ... 8911591444


The sceptic in me says this is one of those classic A.Net examples of someone reading something on here, posting it somewhere else and then A.Net "grabs" that post as validation of the initial idea.


Interesting they say its from a confidential source so doesnt sounds like it came from here. Will wait and see.


Was it not you who mentioned this possibility first?

I think from memory the last rumour re EK to WLG was via BNE on a 77L which at the time the 77L didn't serve BNE, so weather there was any truth I don't know, maybe it was to be part of a third daily BNE service? Or the 77L was to replace the 77W, that was via SIN though at odd times. Anyway QF haven't run BNE-WLG for a long time now so maybe there was some truth to it?

The only thing with this latest one is that PAX inbound to CHC have a stop in WLG so 2 stops from Europe still which makes me wonder about a potential 4 weekly DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB and a 3 weekly DXB-CHC-DXB or something. NZ used to run NRT-CHC-AKL for the inbound market, though that ended a number of years ago. DXB-WLG-CHC-DXB I just wonder how they would crew such a flight?
 
NZ6
Posts: 2234
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:22 am

I find this obsession (not just on a.net) for WLG to have long-haul flights just crazy. It's been muted for a number of years and I've always dismissed it. In my opinion there's just no need. We've done it once and with it being subsidized. Let's see how fast (or slow) SQ are to return.

Ultimately - I'm struggling to see where the need for long haul is and why anyone would want to invest serious money into it, because that's what this would take.

AKL is 60 minutes away and in the medium term future all flight operations will be under one roof. Serious investment is required on the runway for any outbound leg over 10hrs which is needed for SIN and beyond.

CHC is the Southern Tourism gateway and catchment population not that different.

WLG isn't on the tourism radar and outside of government agencies isn't home home to many major corporations. Heck, if we're honest. WLG struggles to pull more than a couple A320's to SYD daily.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 9419
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:52 am

NZ6 wrote:
I find this obsession (not just on a.net) for WLG to have long-haul flights just crazy. It's been muted for a number of years and I've always dismissed it. In my opinion there's just no need. We've done it once and with it being subsidized. Let's see how fast (or slow) SQ are to return.

Ultimately - I'm struggling to see where the need for long haul is and why anyone would want to invest serious money into it, because that's what this would take.

AKL is 60 minutes away and in the medium term future all flight operations will be under one roof. Serious investment is required on the runway for any outbound leg over 10hrs which is needed for SIN and beyond.

CHC is the Southern Tourism gateway and catchment population not that different.

WLG isn't on the tourism radar and outside of government agencies isn't home home to many major corporations. Heck, if we're honest. WLG struggles to pull more than a couple A320's to SYD daily.


I am in the same boat.

It was mentioned above that the subsidy for SQ wasn't that much, i have no idea how much it was and I think it was you who said CBR wasn't the right market for the stopover, they found a bit of a niche in MEL and were able to grow it and upgrade the product, weather it was actually profitable at the time of being dropped who knows?

SQ have dropped WLG, weather they ever return remains to be seen. Perhaps EK see some market there to replace what SQ had?
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4782
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - March 2022

Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:31 am

a7ala wrote:
Why do you say SQ couldnt make WLG work?

NZ6 wrote:
Let's see how fast (or slow) SQ are to return.

SQ previously announced it would not return to WLG.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indust ... ble-future
https://simpleflying.com/singapore-airl ... n-flights/

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