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cirrusdragoon
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Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:24 am

Seeing as there is no discussion thread dedicated to Jetlines, I thought I would start it.

Well it looks as if Canada Jetlines is revealing more of their business model . They are tying up with online travel companies. Vacation packages. From a press release, they are scheduled to launch this July from its Toronto hub, the startup airline has chosen CheapOair, OneTravel and CheapOair.CA to provide access to its flights.

It seems with all this pent up leisure focused demand coming, Jetlines sees a pathway for themselves to the sun destination market from YYZ initially anyway. With recent industry consolidation occurring in Canada , this makes sense. They are essentially trying to replace Sunwing’s presence once/ if Sunwing merges with Westjet. Interesting that their new CFO started his career with the former Skyservice and quite recently was VP of finance at Sunwing!

I do love that they are using an A320 for operations. A much more comfy ride vs a 737.

Let us see what comes of this next venture. I wonder how long until we see them establish a presence in Quebec?
 
Juju2004
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:06 pm

This source says Jetlines will start by flying domestic routes first https://www.lesailesduquebec.com/jetlin ... dans-lest/
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:30 pm

Juju2004 wrote:
This source says Jetlines will start by flying domestic routes first https://www.lesailesduquebec.com/jetlin ... dans-lest/


Yes read that one as well. In the Globe and Mail, Doyle also mentions that they will "will focus on selling airfares to resort properties with its vacations division, in addition to catering to the domestic families and friends market."
 
jimbo737
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:40 pm

Nothing much has changed from the business plan that was circulating in 2013.

They’re still strategically all over the map, with the added disadvantage of beginning legally required to announce all material transactions and lifting their kimono on a quarterly basis to let us all know how poorly they are doing.

This will be like watching a train wreck in slow motion on YouTube.

They never learn.
 
73790
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 12:07 am

Their counterpart GlobalX is pretty much doing exact opposite of them. If anything GlobalX needs it’s own thread.

GlobalX appears to be doing extremely well for themselves with a lot of financial backing, it’s a shame the Canada version isn’t doing so well.

I’ve been hearing GlobalX has 4 more aircraft due in April and their freighters already have contracts once they are online in August , maybe they should take some notes from the American Version, maybe they’ll get off the ground. .
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:36 pm

From the private event that took place at the Chartright Air Group Fixed Based Operation (FBO) facility at the Region of Waterloo International Airport.

https://ca.travelpulse.com/news/airline ... -a320.html

Caught a first glimpse of the onboard seat product, seems they went with the slimline Recaro 3530 seat – a first for any Canadian air carrier. Nothing extraordinary however.
Image

Anyway , wishing them luck
 
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IceCream
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:15 pm

Interesting. Their business plan still seems a little bit sketchy to me. I don't really see what they're trying to bring to the Canadian marketplace.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:22 pm

IceCream wrote:
Interesting. Their business plan still seems a little bit sketchy to me. I don't really see what they're trying to bring to the Canadian marketplace.


From what I can tell they are anticipating a void left behind if sunwing is merged into the ws group . Competition in the packaged vacation market.
 
AC330
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:39 pm

The evolution of Canada Jetlines has been the most exhausting story of an airline in the making that the Canadian airline industry has ever seen. They’ve spent the majority of the last decade claiming a launch is just around the corner. Even going so far as to announce bases across the country at one point. I am always happy to see new entrants into the market but I really don’t have high hopes for this one.
 
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novak500
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:57 pm

I have to agree with AC330, this "has been the most exhausting story of an airline in the making that the Canadian airline industry has ever seen". I also agree there is a pent up demand for leasure travel in Canada, I just got back from PVR myself, but the presence and market share of Sunwing is not going anywhere nor is Transat. The high demand may be their ticket for now.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Mar 30, 2022 5:36 pm

Here is a video of the unveiling of Canada Jetlines. More detailed look inside the aircraft.

Their Uniform
Image
https://vimeo.com/691658743
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed May 04, 2022 2:58 pm

Start-up carrier Canada Jetlines has appointed announced Brad Warren as its Chief Operating Officer ahead of its summer 2022 launch. Warren, who boasts over 25 years of experience in the airline industry, also held roles at Air Georgian and Regional 1 airlines where he was Vice President of Maintenance. Warren’s appointment comes on the heels of the carrier announcing Toronto Pearson International Airport as its new hub. Canada Jetlines has a target start date of summer 2022, with a network that will come to include the U.S., Mexico, the Caribbean and Canada on A320s. It has a projected growth of 15 aircraft by the year 2025. https://www.travelweek.ca/news/brad-war ... s-new-coo/
 
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IceCream
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed May 04, 2022 8:16 pm

Aresxerexade wrote:
Start-up carrier Canada Jetlines has appointed announced Brad Warren as its Chief Operating Officer ahead of its summer 2022 launch. Warren, who boasts over 25 years of experience in the airline industry, also held roles at Air Georgian and Regional 1 airlines where he was Vice President of Maintenance. Warren’s appointment comes on the heels of the carrier announcing Toronto Pearson International Airport as its new hub. Canada Jetlines has a target start date of summer 2022, with a network that will come to include the U.S., Mexico, the Caribbean and Canada on A320s. It has a projected growth of 15 aircraft by the year 2025. https://www.travelweek.ca/news/brad-war ... s-new-coo/

It's getting a little too late to launch S22 isn't it?
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu May 05, 2022 12:31 am

IceCream wrote:
Aresxerexade wrote:
Start-up carrier Canada Jetlines has appointed announced Brad Warren as its Chief Operating Officer ahead of its summer 2022 launch. Warren, who boasts over 25 years of experience in the airline industry, also held roles at Air Georgian and Regional 1 airlines where he was Vice President of Maintenance. Warren’s appointment comes on the heels of the carrier announcing Toronto Pearson International Airport as its new hub. Canada Jetlines has a target start date of summer 2022, with a network that will come to include the U.S., Mexico, the Caribbean and Canada on A320s. It has a projected growth of 15 aircraft by the year 2025. https://www.travelweek.ca/news/brad-war ... s-new-coo/

It's getting a little too late to launch S22 isn't it?


Not if they are banking on the busy fall winter hot southern Caribbean market.
 
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IceCream
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu May 05, 2022 1:06 am

Aresxerexade wrote:
IceCream wrote:
Aresxerexade wrote:
Start-up carrier Canada Jetlines has appointed announced Brad Warren as its Chief Operating Officer ahead of its summer 2022 launch. Warren, who boasts over 25 years of experience in the airline industry, also held roles at Air Georgian and Regional 1 airlines where he was Vice President of Maintenance. Warren’s appointment comes on the heels of the carrier announcing Toronto Pearson International Airport as its new hub. Canada Jetlines has a target start date of summer 2022, with a network that will come to include the U.S., Mexico, the Caribbean and Canada on A320s. It has a projected growth of 15 aircraft by the year 2025. https://www.travelweek.ca/news/brad-war ... s-new-coo/

It's getting a little too late to launch S22 isn't it?


Not if they are banking on the busy fall winter hot southern Caribbean market.

Looks like I misread; I thought Jetlines was saying they wanted to operate their first commercial flight in S22, when they want to open bookings/announce new routes in S22.
 
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Aresxerexade
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu May 26, 2022 4:40 am

Looks like Canada Jetlines is coming to the aviation party!

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/3111 ... er-carrier

The Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) has granted Canada Jetlines (JETMF) stage 2 approval after determining that the airline met the agency’s financial requirements.

Eddy Doyle CEO Canada Jetlines:

“The teams of both the CTA and Canada Jetlines (JETMF) have been working with great collaboration and diligence to ensure we have met or exceeded the requirements for a start-up airline operating in Canada.”

Doyle added that the airline intends to launch its first commercial flight in the summer of 2022

“We are working in earnest towards the finish line of the certification process. We are confident that we will operate our first commercial flight this summer and plan to announce our commercial schedule in the coming weeks,” said Doyle.

Looking forward to seeing where this outfit goes.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:38 pm

Jetlines Vacations Ltd. is given the go ahead. The Travel Industry Council of Ontario (TICO) has provided approval to the Canada Jetlines, the new all-Canadian, leisure airline, as a travel retailer and travel wholesaler under the Travel Industry Act, 2022.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:55 pm

Jetlines has successfully completed all demonstration flights for Transport Canada in the process to obtain its Air Operator Certificate (AOC). On July 5, 2022, Canada Jetlines operated a flight from the Region of Waterloo International airport to Greater Moncton Roméo Leblanc International airport and back, to the satisfaction of Transport Canada inspectors.

Flights are bookable now on the airline's website from Toronto to Moncton and Winnipeg.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:03 am

Nothing bookable yet but YQM, YYZ and YWG are listed in the destinations along with Niagara Falls promoting Niagara by schlepping it from YYZ on the QEW.

Looks like they’re starting slowly with YQM-YYZ-YWG X67 to start.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 8:38 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Nothing bookable yet but YQM, YYZ and YWG are listed in the destinations along with Niagara Falls promoting Niagara by schlepping it from YYZ on the QEW.

Looks like they’re starting slowly with YQM-YYZ-YWG X67 to start.


Strange for a moment I had the capability, and it broke down pricing, there were four fare types, with the most expensive one including a $20 onboard food credit, 2 checked bags etc... hmmm seems they quickly took that away from the public to view.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:20 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Nothing bookable yet but YQM, YYZ and YWG are listed in the destinations along with Niagara Falls promoting Niagara by schlepping it from YYZ on the QEW.

Looks like they’re starting slowly with YQM-YYZ-YWG X67 to start.


Strange for a moment I had the capability, and it broke down pricing, there were four fare types, with the most expensive one including a $20 onboard food credit, 2 checked bags etc... hmmm seems they quickly took that away from the public to view.


What did the schedule look like in terms of timings? How about the fares?

Evidently they’re forbidden from selling tickets until the CTA tells them it’s okay to do so.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:03 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Nothing bookable yet but YQM, YYZ and YWG are listed in the destinations along with Niagara Falls promoting Niagara by schlepping it from YYZ on the QEW.

Looks like they’re starting slowly with YQM-YYZ-YWG X67 to start.


Strange for a moment I had the capability, and it broke down pricing, there were four fare types, with the most expensive one including a $20 onboard food credit, 2 checked bags etc... hmmm seems they quickly took that away from the public to view.


What did the schedule look like in terms of timings? How about the fares?

Evidently they’re forbidden from selling tickets until the CTA tells them it’s okay to do so.


It was a very quick glance, I think I remember punching in YYZ -YWG and the most expensive fare option , one way way was in the $400cad range.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:27 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:

Strange for a moment I had the capability, and it broke down pricing, there were four fare types, with the most expensive one including a $20 onboard food credit, 2 checked bags etc... hmmm seems they quickly took that away from the public to view.


What did the schedule look like in terms of timings? How about the fares?

Evidently they’re forbidden from selling tickets until the CTA tells them it’s okay to do so.


It was a very quick glance, I think I remember punching in YYZ -YWG and the most expensive fare option , one way way was in the $400cad range.


Guess we’ll find out soon enough.
 
oceanbeat
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:22 pm

It seems like bookings are open, but the fares are very high. I hope is a mistake cause who is going to pay $421 for a YYZYWG lite fare? when the competition is less than half the price.

Image
Image


Same route same day on Flair
Image

Westjet
Image
 
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IceCream
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:49 pm

oceanbeat wrote:
It seems like bookings are open, but the fares are very high. I hope is a mistake cause who is going to pay $421 for a YYZYWG lite fare? when the competition is less than half the price.

Image
Image


Same route same day on Flair
Image

Westjet
Image

Wow, their fares are quite expensive, especially for a "ULCC"
Why are their fares so bad, usually new airlines have some sort of sale on the first day?
 
Acey
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:30 pm

I suspect there will be a wild correction in these fares, perhaps a problem with their algorithms or something. Or maybe they think those Recaro seats command a 2x premium.
 
LightChop2Chop
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:53 pm

Did Jetlines actually say they were going to be an ULCC? As far as I understood it they were going to be upmarket a little bit. Perhaps I misunderstood.
 
oceanbeat
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:01 pm

Acey wrote:
I suspect there will be a wild correction in these fares, perhaps a problem with their algorithms or something. Or maybe they think those Recaro seats command a 2x premium.


Unfortunate start but what can you expect from the most chaotic airline start up I've ever seen.

I wonder what all the top executives are doing because their strategy seems to be very amateur.

They used to call themselves ULCC in the investors' presentations, now they have changed to "value-focused" either way, when you launch a route and you don't market it to be competitive with the incumbents, chances are you will fail. Why would I pay the same or more than AC or WS, with a new entrant that I know nothing about? I rather stick with AC and WS that will offer more security in case of a cancellation or delay besides the loyalty add on they offer.

From their website:

Canada Jetlines was created as a value-focused leisure airline, with the aim of providing travellers with more options to fly conveniently within Canada and to preferred sun-destinations.
 
oceanbeat
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:18 pm

As expected prices are down!!!

Image
 
Juju2004
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:41 pm

341 for an inaugural flight on a semi ULCC... no thanks
 
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QB737
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 4:21 pm

Fares went down again.

Image
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:07 pm

I don't think they will survive. With fares like that you need to be creating a premium aura around your brand and I just don't see that. The reality is new entrants in aviation almost always sell on price

Porter was a recent exception but they had a very unique value proposition with YTZ
 
Dominion301
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:17 pm

YEGFlyer wrote:
I don't think they will survive. With fares like that you need to be creating a premium aura around your brand and I just don't see that. The reality is new entrants in aviation almost always sell on price

Porter was a recent exception but they had a very unique value proposition with YTZ


I think the real test will be what sort of sun leisure routes will they launch this winter and what sort of all-inclusive packages will they have. If they want to sell any winter packages, they better announce something in the next 4 weeks or that window's gone.

For this initial schedule, it's interesting how you can only go YQM-YWG on days 24 and YWG-YQM on days 135. They clearly at this juncture don't want any RONs outside of the YYZ "hub". What's also really interesting is the long YWG and YQM turnaround times. This is the most cautious start I've ever seen. With the YYZ gong show this summer, I guess they want to make a good first impression with their sole 320 despite the poor utilization and sole O&D reliance to/from YYZ on 5/10 outstation departures per week...not that there are exactly throngs of people wanting to fly between Moncton and Winnipeg, but not having that available every day you operate is probably leaving 5 points of load factor on the table half the time.

Even at $228-$400 average one-way fares with à la carte pricing, with such low utilization, I can't see how they can come anywhere near covering their fixed costs, let alone their variables...unless the weekends are fully loaded with some fixed profit margin charter flying - UNLIKELY.

Fares are most definitely not ULCC rates at this juncture. I will say this though, by doing everything at YYZ, it's the same-old, same-old with a big yawn and the true definition of insanity repeating itself.

Now that we finally know their first moves, I would love to hear Jimbo chime in to tear them to shreds...with something to actually go on this time! :bouncy:
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:55 am

The only people who will notice that they have a padded schedule, and make the connection that this might mean they are somewhat more on-time than other airlines, are avgeeks and not the general flying public. I think they need to do something more flashy than that to appear premium. Something like champagne at the start of the flight, complimentary food and a "classy" looking brand would help a lot.
 
oceanbeat
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:00 pm

They have delayed its launch once again. What a disaster of management.

https://simpleflying.com/canada-jetlines-1st-flight-delayed/
 
YEGFlyer
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:37 pm

I didn't realize they didn't even have an AOC.. and they are still selling tickets.
 
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IceCream
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:48 am

YEGFlyer wrote:
I didn't realize they didn't even have an AOC.. and they are still selling tickets.

I always thought Jetlines was never going to take off. And even after launching sales they're getting delayed. It's been almost ten years lmao.
 
debonair
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:16 pm

oceanbeat wrote:
They have delayed its launch once again. What a disaster of management.

https://simpleflying.com/canada-jetlines-1st-flight-delayed/


No, makes sense! Remember we talked about the relatively high fares for an ULCC?! I think the management already did know, on the day the sales started, that most probably it wouldn't work out... Smart move, offering higher fares to protect mass bookings.
 
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IceCream
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:19 pm

debonair wrote:
oceanbeat wrote:
They have delayed its launch once again. What a disaster of management.

https://simpleflying.com/canada-jetlines-1st-flight-delayed/


No, makes sense! Remember we talked about the relatively high fares for an ULCC?! I think the management already did know, on the day the sales started, that most probably it wouldn't work out... Smart move, offering higher fares to protect mass bookings.

But why open bookings in the first place then?
 
debonair
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:59 pm

IceCream wrote:
But why open bookings in the first place then?


Additional income from ticket sales might be one reason. Or time frame within the apllication process to start sale.
I think there was still little hope to get the AOC ontime. So it is better to start with few passengers, rather flying empty.

I have seen this a lot in the past, selling flights higher priced under "government approvals still pending". If its granted, you have few passengers which is still better than none. If not, you have only few to refund.
 
TexasAirCorp
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:09 am

IceCream wrote:
debonair wrote:
oceanbeat wrote:
They have delayed its launch once again. What a disaster of management.

https://simpleflying.com/canada-jetlines-1st-flight-delayed/


No, makes sense! Remember we talked about the relatively high fares for an ULCC?! I think the management already did know, on the day the sales started, that most probably it wouldn't work out... Smart move, offering higher fares to protect mass bookings.

But why open bookings in the first place then?


Possibly to try and convince investors something is happening and they may see a penny in return at some point.
 
 
9252fly
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:16 pm

oceanbeat wrote:


Wow, someone remind me how many years it took to get to this point from inception?
 
oceanbeat
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:59 pm

9252fly wrote:
oceanbeat wrote:


Wow, someone remind me how many years it took to get to this point from inception?


Founded in 2013...it only took 9 years. :rotfl:
 
wjv04
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:58 am

Let the bloodbath begin. Zero chance Canada can support all these carriers into profitability.

Correct me if I am wrong... These guys have 1 aircraft?
 
Acey
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:34 am

wjv04 wrote:
Let the bloodbath begin. Zero chance Canada can support all these carriers into profitability.

Correct me if I am wrong... These guys have 1 aircraft?


Yeah. I think they said 15 planned by end of 2023. And yeah I agree, somebody will fold or merge by the end of 2024. There's just no way they all make it.
 
airman99o
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:49 am

Ah yes another Blood Bath awaiting. Reminds me of the days with jetsGo, Harmony, Canjet, prior to that, Canair, greyhound, royal, Canada 3000, Vista jet, roots Air, I know the list goes on and on and on..... just a few more to add to the Canadian Aviation graveyard.
 
airman99o
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:49 am

Ah yes another Blood Bath awaiting. Reminds me of the days with jetsGo, Harmony, Canjet, prior to that, Canair, greyhound, royal, Canada 3000, Vista jet, roots Air, I know the list goes on and on and on..... just a few more to add to the Canadian Aviation graveyard.
 
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cirrusdragoon
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:03 pm

I can hardly wait to see who the victors are in this round of the Airline Hunger Games. I look forward to every economic down cycle to watch as new airline players move in and battle to the death. The one in 2002 was spectacular.
 
casperCA
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Re: Canada Jetlines News and Discussion Thread 2022

Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:18 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
I can hardly wait to see who the victors are in this round of the Airline Hunger Games. I look forward to every economic down cycle to watch as new airline players move in and battle to the death. The one in 2002 was spectacular.


We will have to see if government provides tributes to one of them at the last minute to change the outcome.

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