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ClassicLover
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:55 pm

FL420FT wrote:
As most of us are aware, Qantas has been copping a hammering with the beyond significant wait times with the wait times of six, seven hours, if not longer.
A few days ago Stephanie Tully (Chief Customer Officer) of Qantas had a phone in interview with 2GB radio Ben Fordham.

https://www.2gb.com/appalling-service-b ... hy-delays/

I'll let you all decide.


Great link to share there! It's the same thing at other airlines, British Airways has been experiencing the same thing, though not as long as the Qantas wait times. Staff out due to Covid, people using vouchers, cancellations, re-bookings, partner airlines cancelling flights and so on. It all adds to the time it takes for the calls to be answered. While it is completely unacceptable, it's not like they've deliberately caused the issue, so it will get better as time goes on.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:23 pm

IndianicWorld wrote:
Qantas has a habit of running a tight schedule, but it currently does appear to be pushing things fairly hard to ramp up.

The additional aircraft that will come on line will all be utilised very quickly once they arrive it appears also.

As for the earlier comments about BNE-US, airports and governments speak with airlines all the time, and can take years to get service from that investment of time and effort. With airlines having constraints in terms of fleet due to retirements, manufacturer delays and operational challenges, getting a carrier to commit may take even longer at present.

I am sure that at some point another airline will jump on board a BNE-US route though. Whether it be UA or AA, there will likely be opportunities for the future that will develop.

SYD and MEL have appeared to be the main focus, but they have a head start in terms of the market being open longer than Qld, but even then UA has been quite conservative in its relaunch for MEL and SYD-IAH.


You make some valid points. To add to that we have seen AA leave SYD-LAX to QF for NS22 so they can use the frames on European routes where at this time of the year can make more money. At the same time they are affected just like Qantas with delays in 787 deliveries and also retired A330 and 767 fleets during COVID

Where United is concerned MEL-LAX/SFO being delayed along with SYD-IAH as the 789's for those routes can make them more money elsewhere. United has also been affected by the PW 777-200 engine grounding resulting in a significant amount of 772's being grounded, out of 74 777-200's in their fleet 52 are currently grounded as a result of being related the PW engine problems, that equates to about 70% of their 772 fleet currently grounded. Again just like AA they are using there aircraft where they can make the most money. Its just like the same when Qantas dropped SFO for DFW, that was simply a case of what would make the airline more money. I expect to see UA in BNE one day however at this point in time they dont have the aircraft to service the route
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 8:17 pm

FL420FT wrote:
As most of us are aware, Qantas has been copping a hammering with the beyond significant wait times with the wait times of six, seven hours, if not longer.
A few days ago Stephanie Tully (Chief Customer Officer) of Qantas had a phone in interview with 2GB radio Ben Fordham.

https://www.2gb.com/appalling-service-b ... hy-delays/

I'll let you all decide.


The call centres are horrendous. Not only are the wait times long to speak to someone but when you do get in touch they are pretty incompetent. After finally getting through it took over an hour and a half just to cancel an award ticket with the agent (Got put on hold while they took a look). Things like this should be able to be done online however their IT is also pretty poor.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:02 pm

anstar wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
As most of us are aware, Qantas has been copping a hammering with the beyond significant wait times with the wait times of six, seven hours, if not longer.
A few days ago Stephanie Tully (Chief Customer Officer) of Qantas had a phone in interview with 2GB radio Ben Fordham.

https://www.2gb.com/appalling-service-b ... hy-delays/

I'll let you all decide.


The call centres are horrendous. Not only are the wait times long to speak to someone but when you do get in touch they are pretty incompetent. After finally getting through it took over an hour and a half just to cancel an award ticket with the agent (Got put on hold while they took a look). Things like this should be able to be done online however their IT is also pretty poor.


I totally agree about the website and apps being poor. They lack a lot of functionality.

Delta and United both have outstanding apps, and in the event of delay or cancellation you can proactively re-book yourself on any available flight, via any routing, free of charge in about three clicks. When Qantas announced they were cutting airport customer service and people would have to use the app or call to arrange re-booking, my first thought they must surely have a United-style upgrade ready to go otherwise this will be an unmitigated disaster. Needless to say there was no app changes.
 
redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:24 pm

Given the lack of money that has been made in the last two years, I suspect the pressure will be to run the fleet as hard as possible. Same goes for the poor contact centre. Cold hard cash will be more important than Net Promoter Score.

If the average wait in the call centre is many hours... the number of people you would have to hire to bring that number down to 5-10 minutes is astronomical. I can’t see that happening. Until customers vote with their wallets and forward bookings start to drop, QF will pretend to improve the situation.

Same goes for the fleet. Given the opportunity to get another half rotation or rotation of a bird vs customer complaints because of a few hour delay... the cold hard cash will win the day.

It’s going to be like this for a long time I think.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:43 am

^ Agreed. You've got to remember Qantas still has aircraft that it's not flying but paying lease and interest costs on.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:47 am

The first 11 of QF's 789s also were mortgaged during the pandemic, so there was a period where QF had to pay the mortgage but the 789s weren't seeing much work.

After that period, I think QF would want to run the existing 789 fleet for as much as possible as they ramp up their scheduled international long haul services.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:56 am

redroo wrote:
Given the lack of money that has been made in the last two years, I suspect the pressure will be to run the fleet as hard as possible. Same goes for the poor contact centre. Cold hard cash will be more important than Net Promoter Score.

If the average wait in the call centre is many hours... the number of people you would have to hire to bring that number down to 5-10 minutes is astronomical. I can’t see that happening. Until customers vote with their wallets and forward bookings start to drop, QF will pretend to improve the situation.

Same goes for the fleet. Given the opportunity to get another half rotation or rotation of a bird vs customer complaints because of a few hour delay... the cold hard cash will win the day.

It’s going to be like this for a long time I think.


Unfortunately Virgin aren’t any better. General phone lines are shorter, but their call centre staff in Manila (while unfailingly polite and pleasant to deal with) are either not trained or don’t have the authority to do anything more than simple flight changes, so you then get put on hold for hours to get through to their Brisbane call centre. Where Virgin really drop the ball though is airport customer service, they seem to be running on skeleton staffing leaving no redundancy for sick staff etc. In Feb I flew VA MEL-CBR and thankfully only had cabin baggage as I can’t put in words how overcrowded the check-in hall was. It was something out of an apocalypse movie. There was literally no room to move or get close to a check-in kiosk as the area was so rammed full of people. In March I flew VA CBR-BNE, and while the scene wasn’t as chaotic it was pretty similar. I was in line for 40 minutes for bag drop, finally dropping my bag only 15 minutes before departure. I guess being a small station they can do that, but it made for a very stressful wait as I was convinced I’d missed my flight. Under normal circumstances, Qantas’ automated bag drop is much more efficient and user friendly.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:14 am

anstar wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
As most of us are aware, Qantas has been copping a hammering with the beyond significant wait times with the wait times of six, seven hours, if not longer.
A few days ago Stephanie Tully (Chief Customer Officer) of Qantas had a phone in interview with 2GB radio Ben Fordham.

https://www.2gb.com/appalling-service-b ... hy-delays/

I'll let you all decide.


The call centres are horrendous. Not only are the wait times long to speak to someone but when you do get in touch they are pretty incompetent. After finally getting through it took over an hour and a half just to cancel an award ticket with the agent (Got put on hold while they took a look). Things like this should be able to be done online however their IT is also pretty poor.


They will have to look at their system one way or another. Had to wait 7hours yesterday before someone answered the phone and that's just to use a flight credit voucher because Qantas doesn't let you rebook online using the flight credit voucher. I find it a bit outrageous considering you can easily do it with Jetstar online yet the parent company you have to phone.

It's simple things like this which I think isn't helping the long wait times at the call centre. If the website and app had better functionality and the ability to book using a credit, I'd guess a large chunk of those wait times would disappear pretty quickly.

What is also a bit frustrating is no one at Qantas has come out and said why you can't book online using the flight credit voucher and must phone instead to use it. Some communication from them regarding that would be helpful I think to a lot of people
 
NTLDaz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:43 am

qf002 wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
My point is November is normally a fairly cheap month so this may be a sign that international travel is picking up.


If you're comfortable taking the risk I'd sit tight and see what happens.

I am heading over to the US mid-year and QF's fares have been declining all year for my dates, and the flights still look very quiet so I'm expecting them to drop further (currently sitting at the high end of average for May/June). I think QF is a bit hesitant to start throwing lots of low fares around when forward demand is so uncertain, otherwise they could end up leaving money on the table.


Good advice - thanks. My son is going to the US on a college scholarship to play basketball so we want to go see him at the start of the season.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 2:27 am

mrkerr7474 wrote:
anstar wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
As most of us are aware, Qantas has been copping a hammering with the beyond significant wait times with the wait times of six, seven hours, if not longer.
A few days ago Stephanie Tully (Chief Customer Officer) of Qantas had a phone in interview with 2GB radio Ben Fordham.

https://www.2gb.com/appalling-service-b ... hy-delays/

I'll let you all decide.


The call centres are horrendous. Not only are the wait times long to speak to someone but when you do get in touch they are pretty incompetent. After finally getting through it took over an hour and a half just to cancel an award ticket with the agent (Got put on hold while they took a look). Things like this should be able to be done online however their IT is also pretty poor.


They will have to look at their system one way or another. Had to wait 7hours yesterday before someone answered the phone and that's just to use a flight credit voucher because Qantas doesn't let you rebook online using the flight credit voucher. I find it a bit outrageous considering you can easily do it with Jetstar online yet the parent company you have to phone.

It's simple things like this which I think isn't helping the long wait times at the call centre. If the website and app had better functionality and the ability to book using a credit, I'd guess a large chunk of those wait times would disappear pretty quickly.

What is also a bit frustrating is no one at Qantas has come out and said why you can't book online using the flight credit voucher and must phone instead to use it. Some communication from them regarding that would be helpful I think to a lot of people


To clarify, is this a credit from a cancelled booking? If so, you can re-book online, so I’m surprised to hear that you couldn’t. I’ve used about ten credits over the past 18 months and never had a problem using them through the website.

What I find incredible is that you can’t rebook after your flight is cancelled. You can accept their suggested change, or you must call them. I have an upcoming flight that has been cancelled and they’ve moved me onto the flight an hour earlier, but that doesn’t work so will have to call to be moved onto the flight an hour later. That’s ridiculous, it is crazy that their website doesn’t have the functionality to do that. All that it does it clog up the phone lines over a really simple change that the vast majority of passengers could self-manage. As I said, the US carriers have this down to a fine art. They aren’t generally renowned for customer service, but they are light years ahead of QF in terms of customer facing technology.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:28 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
mrkerr7474 wrote:
anstar wrote:

The call centres are horrendous. Not only are the wait times long to speak to someone but when you do get in touch they are pretty incompetent. After finally getting through it took over an hour and a half just to cancel an award ticket with the agent (Got put on hold while they took a look). Things like this should be able to be done online however their IT is also pretty poor.


They will have to look at their system one way or another. Had to wait 7hours yesterday before someone answered the phone and that's just to use a flight credit voucher because Qantas doesn't let you rebook online using the flight credit voucher. I find it a bit outrageous considering you can easily do it with Jetstar online yet the parent company you have to phone.

It's simple things like this which I think isn't helping the long wait times at the call centre. If the website and app had better functionality and the ability to book using a credit, I'd guess a large chunk of those wait times would disappear pretty quickly.

What is also a bit frustrating is no one at Qantas has come out and said why you can't book online using the flight credit voucher and must phone instead to use it. Some communication from them regarding that would be helpful I think to a lot of people


To clarify, is this a credit from a cancelled booking? If so, you can re-book online, so I’m surprised to hear that you couldn’t. I’ve used about ten credits over the past 18 months and never had a problem using them through the website.

What I find incredible is that you can’t rebook after your flight is cancelled. You can accept their suggested change, or you must call them. I have an upcoming flight that has been cancelled and they’ve moved me onto the flight an hour earlier, but that doesn’t work so will have to call to be moved onto the flight an hour later. That’s ridiculous, it is crazy that their website doesn’t have the functionality to do that. All that it does it clog up the phone lines over a really simple change that the vast majority of passengers could self-manage. As I said, the US carriers have this down to a fine art. They aren’t generally renowned for customer service, but they are light years ahead of QF in terms of customer facing technology.


I'm based in NZ and the original flights were cancelled by QF when the borders closed back in 2020. It was turned into a credit and of course aside from a small period last year, there hasn't been many opportunities to rebook until now. Trying to make use of sale fares and double status promo I wanted to use it but yeah, couldn't use it online at any point. Even looking last year when the travel bubble opened, it wouldn't let me use the credit online and made me call instead.

Very frustrating and like you say, clogs up the phone lines unnecessarily. That's very annoying that you don't have an opportunity to use the app or website to change to a more suitable flight for something that works with you. That is interesting to hear that US carriers have better functionality than QF. QF needs to catch up
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:34 am

redroo wrote:
Given the lack of money that has been made in the last two years, I suspect the pressure will be to run the fleet as hard as possible. Same goes for the poor contact centre. Cold hard cash will be more important than Net Promoter Score.

If the average wait in the call centre is many hours... the number of people you would have to hire to bring that number down to 5-10 minutes is astronomical. I can’t see that happening. Until customers vote with their wallets and forward bookings start to drop, QF will pretend to improve the situation.

Same goes for the fleet. Given the opportunity to get another half rotation or rotation of a bird vs customer complaints because of a few hour delay... the cold hard cash will win the day.

It’s going to be like this for a long time I think.


If they had competent well trained staff then the call centre wait times would not be so long. I mean to take an hour of an agents time to do a simple flight cancellation is not exactly efficient. Even better if you could do half the stuff effectively online but you can't.
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:41 am

FL420FT wrote:
Speaking of how the 789 fleet is stretched very thin at the moment, todays (Sunday) QF93 is copping a four hour delay (STD 2130hrs, revised to 0130hrs) due to immediate maintenace requirements that cannot be delayed.


QF93 was also delayed almost 12 hours a few days prior, and as a result tonight's QF9 is delayed 6 hours. I suspect with the fleet being stretched so much, these delays will become a common occurrence.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:47 am

Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:20 am

EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting! I would have thought they would have added 3-4weekly for MEL first before adding extra on SYD. Good to see DL holding their one in the market without VA!!
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:24 am

anstar wrote:
redroo wrote:
Given the lack of money that has been made in the last two years, I suspect the pressure will be to run the fleet as hard as possible. Same goes for the poor contact centre. Cold hard cash will be more important than Net Promoter Score.

If the average wait in the call centre is many hours... the number of people you would have to hire to bring that number down to 5-10 minutes is astronomical. I can’t see that happening. Until customers vote with their wallets and forward bookings start to drop, QF will pretend to improve the situation.

Same goes for the fleet. Given the opportunity to get another half rotation or rotation of a bird vs customer complaints because of a few hour delay... the cold hard cash will win the day.

It’s going to be like this for a long time I think.


If they had competent well trained staff then the call centre wait times would not be so long. I mean to take an hour of an agents time to do a simple flight cancellation is not exactly efficient. Even better if you could do half the stuff effectively online but you can't.


To be honest the other challenge is the industry has woefully under resourced development of digital solutions to ticketing, and the integration between airlines, OTA, trade, and IATA is maddeningly complex - only the American carriers have truly embraced proper digital solutions but at a cost - but it’s paid off!! Ticketing it, but it’s just such a complex beast it takes a lot of experience to navigate these ancient systems - I’d say the churn of staff would be phenomenal!

The industry really needs a Uber style digital disruption - somehow get rid of e-tickets that simply mimic the old school red coupons! LCCs had the right idea with bookings only, no tickets!!
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:12 am

EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DL is sure making UA (delaying MEL-SFO along with SYD-IAH/MEL-LAX having tentative dates of late October) and AA look conservative (currently not flying due to AA's widebody aircraft shortage - current aircraft better used making money elsewhere) despite DL sticking only to one route.

This did remind me a bit of VA having a go at Trans-Tasman after the NZ divorce, although in this case it seems sales may be strong on the LAX end for DL.

Good for DL for having a shot, perhaps even look at taking some of VA's former SYD based long-haul pax in J for their own J product if they had not defected to QF already.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:30 am

Honestly the level of focus on SYD-US is next level at this stage, with what appears a bit of tunnel vision going on in terms of service.

The delays to MEL by UA, AA suspending flights to SYD and QF still rebuilding their services, it certainly makes for interesting viewing.

The UA delay confuses me TBH, and will certainly frustrate 3 groups of people that I know that had been scheduled to fly UA MEL-SFO during May.
 
FL420FT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:31 am

smi0006 wrote:
anstar wrote:
redroo wrote:
Given the lack of money that has been made in the last two years, I suspect the pressure will be to run the fleet as hard as possible. Same goes for the poor contact centre. Cold hard cash will be more important than Net Promoter Score.

If the average wait in the call centre is many hours... the number of people you would have to hire to bring that number down to 5-10 minutes is astronomical. I can’t see that happening. Until customers vote with their wallets and forward bookings start to drop, QF will pretend to improve the situation.

Same goes for the fleet. Given the opportunity to get another half rotation or rotation of a bird vs customer complaints because of a few hour delay... the cold hard cash will win the day.

It’s going to be like this for a long time I think.


If they had competent well trained staff then the call centre wait times would not be so long. I mean to take an hour of an agents time to do a simple flight cancellation is not exactly efficient. Even better if you could do half the stuff effectively online but you can't.


To be honest the other challenge is the industry has woefully under resourced development of digital solutions to ticketing, and the integration between airlines, OTA, trade, and IATA is maddeningly complex - only the American carriers have truly embraced proper digital solutions but at a cost - but it’s paid off!! Ticketing it, but it’s just such a complex beast it takes a lot of experience to navigate these ancient systems - I’d say the churn of staff would be phenomenal!

The industry really needs a Uber style digital disruption - somehow get rid of e-tickets that simply mimic the old school red coupons! LCCs had the right idea with bookings only, no tickets!!


And this is the biggest problem, I came from working in reservatons for 15 years with QF (through 9/11, Ansett, Icelandic Volcanos). Airlines reservations work with GDS systems (Amadeus, Sabre and others), that are basically NOT internet based, airlines try to build user friendly (both for the customer and staff) interfaces that are internet based. Then someone has to write coding that allows the two systems to interact. Simply put, it gets lost in translation between the two systems. As such, there is a limit to what can be programed into qantas.com to rectify the situation.

The flight credits that are held (for at least Qantas's perspective) are just dummy / pseudo flights added to a booking to keep the booking active, these pseudo flights go out as far as the QF system range allows (353 days). Once that date expires, the booking / credit is sometimes archived (read only) where the consultant has to rebuild a new booking (with a new reference number), adding in the old e-ticket number and working out an additional collection. If multiple credits, potentially multiple archived bookings. It's simple, yet tedious to go thorugh them all).

Another issue for qantas.com is if the credit is from a travel agent booking. Qantas.com can't pick up travel agent bookings that have been held in credit either through the agent, through their webpage or through any manual intervention by the reservations team. In fact, any booking that's been touched manually (by a res agent or anyone in qantas for that matter, automattically stops the ability for qantas.com to pick up the booking. Previously, once one change is complete through the internet, that was it, no more changes through the internet would work. Not sure if that has improved.

The over an hour to cancel a frequent flyer booking through the call centre is disgusting. No denying it. It should be a quick 5 minute (if that) job. You may have heard during the recording that one of the call centres is in Cape Town (South Africa), I still have contacts and I have heard that the turn over rate for staff is shocking. As much as 40 percent every year also on top of that is the bare bones training and lack of geographic knowlege that they have (didn't realise that OOL and BNE airports were approximately 100km apart as an example). The times on hold are probably the staff asking a colleague, supervisor, team leader questions that they have no idea about.

Previous Qantas reservation staff, that have moved elsewhere within the company, are now trying, being told / asked to help out with some of the back end work (queue work and schedule change work) as well.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 1:39 pm

Hey guys,
Is it possible that the white fuselaged QF Dreamliner awaiting delivery in the US was intended (or still is intended) to have a special livery promoting the new Green Tier of QFF... and therefore reinforcing the Qantas Group's 'green credentials'?
Could it be an indigenous design (eg another one from Balarinji like Wunula) or something else...
Hmmmmm ... It will be interesting to see...
Take care,
Bunumuring
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:00 pm

smi0006 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The DL second SYD flight is a smart move.. the costs of opening up a new station are very high, so it's less capital intensive to increase service at an existing station. This is why I think we'll see UA do SYD/MEL-LAX/SFO/IAH before the thought of BNE is entertained.




Interesting! I would have thought they would have added 3-4weekly for MEL first before adding extra on SYD. Good to see DL holding their one in the market without VA!!
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 2309
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:03 pm

FL420FT wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
anstar wrote:

If they had competent well trained staff then the call centre wait times would not be so long. I mean to take an hour of an agents time to do a simple flight cancellation is not exactly efficient. Even better if you could do half the stuff effectively online but you can't.


To be honest the other challenge is the industry has woefully under resourced development of digital solutions to ticketing, and the integration between airlines, OTA, trade, and IATA is maddeningly complex - only the American carriers have truly embraced proper digital solutions but at a cost - but it’s paid off!! Ticketing it, but it’s just such a complex beast it takes a lot of experience to navigate these ancient systems - I’d say the churn of staff would be phenomenal!

The industry really needs a Uber style digital disruption - somehow get rid of e-tickets that simply mimic the old school red coupons! LCCs had the right idea with bookings only, no tickets!!


And this is the biggest problem, I came from working in reservatons for 15 years with QF (through 9/11, Ansett, Icelandic Volcanos). Airlines reservations work with GDS systems (Amadeus, Sabre and others), that are basically NOT internet based, airlines try to build user friendly (both for the customer and staff) interfaces that are internet based. Then someone has to write coding that allows the two systems to interact. Simply put, it gets lost in translation between the two systems. As such, there is a limit to what can be programed into qantas.com to rectify the situation.

The flight credits that are held (for at least Qantas's perspective) are just dummy / pseudo flights added to a booking to keep the booking active, these pseudo flights go out as far as the QF system range allows (353 days). Once that date expires, the booking / credit is sometimes archived (read only) where the consultant has to rebuild a new booking (with a new reference number), adding in the old e-ticket number and working out an additional collection. If multiple credits, potentially multiple archived bookings. It's simple, yet tedious to go thorugh them all).

Another issue for qantas.com is if the credit is from a travel agent booking. Qantas.com can't pick up travel agent bookings that have been held in credit either through the agent, through their webpage or through any manual intervention by the reservations team. In fact, any booking that's been touched manually (by a res agent or anyone in qantas for that matter, automattically stops the ability for qantas.com to pick up the booking. Previously, once one change is complete through the internet, that was it, no more changes through the internet would work. Not sure if that has improved.

The over an hour to cancel a frequent flyer booking through the call centre is disgusting. No denying it. It should be a quick 5 minute (if that) job. You may have heard during the recording that one of the call centres is in Cape Town (South Africa), I still have contacts and I have heard that the turn over rate for staff is shocking. As much as 40 percent every year also on top of that is the bare bones training and lack of geographic knowlege that they have (didn't realise that OOL and BNE airports were approximately 100km apart as an example). The times on hold are probably the staff asking a colleague, supervisor, team leader questions that they have no idea about.

Previous Qantas reservation staff, that have moved elsewhere within the company, are now trying, being told / asked to help out with some of the back end work (queue work and schedule change work) as well.


Fascinating information. Long and the short of it, would it be fair to say that the world of airline ticket transactions hasn't made much progress, much like bank transactions? And that some major, expensive investment to replace legacy systems is needed to let it progress to a more streamlined process?
 
smi0006
Posts: 3202
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:17 pm

qf2220 wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

To be honest the other challenge is the industry has woefully under resourced development of digital solutions to ticketing, and the integration between airlines, OTA, trade, and IATA is maddeningly complex - only the American carriers have truly embraced proper digital solutions but at a cost - but it’s paid off!! Ticketing it, but it’s just such a complex beast it takes a lot of experience to navigate these ancient systems - I’d say the churn of staff would be phenomenal!

The industry really needs a Uber style digital disruption - somehow get rid of e-tickets that simply mimic the old school red coupons! LCCs had the right idea with bookings only, no tickets!!


And this is the biggest problem, I came from working in reservatons for 15 years with QF (through 9/11, Ansett, Icelandic Volcanos). Airlines reservations work with GDS systems (Amadeus, Sabre and others), that are basically NOT internet based, airlines try to build user friendly (both for the customer and staff) interfaces that are internet based. Then someone has to write coding that allows the two systems to interact. Simply put, it gets lost in translation between the two systems. As such, there is a limit to what can be programed into qantas.com to rectify the situation.

The flight credits that are held (for at least Qantas's perspective) are just dummy / pseudo flights added to a booking to keep the booking active, these pseudo flights go out as far as the QF system range allows (353 days). Once that date expires, the booking / credit is sometimes archived (read only) where the consultant has to rebuild a new booking (with a new reference number), adding in the old e-ticket number and working out an additional collection. If multiple credits, potentially multiple archived bookings. It's simple, yet tedious to go thorugh them all).

Another issue for qantas.com is if the credit is from a travel agent booking. Qantas.com can't pick up travel agent bookings that have been held in credit either through the agent, through their webpage or through any manual intervention by the reservations team. In fact, any booking that's been touched manually (by a res agent or anyone in qantas for that matter, automattically stops the ability for qantas.com to pick up the booking. Previously, once one change is complete through the internet, that was it, no more changes through the internet would work. Not sure if that has improved.

The over an hour to cancel a frequent flyer booking through the call centre is disgusting. No denying it. It should be a quick 5 minute (if that) job. You may have heard during the recording that one of the call centres is in Cape Town (South Africa), I still have contacts and I have heard that the turn over rate for staff is shocking. As much as 40 percent every year also on top of that is the bare bones training and lack of geographic knowlege that they have (didn't realise that OOL and BNE airports were approximately 100km apart as an example). The times on hold are probably the staff asking a colleague, supervisor, team leader questions that they have no idea about.

Previous Qantas reservation staff, that have moved elsewhere within the company, are now trying, being told / asked to help out with some of the back end work (queue work and schedule change work) as well.


Fascinating information. Long and the short of it, would it be fair to say that the world of airline ticket transactions hasn't made much progress, much like bank transactions? And that some major, expensive investment to replace legacy systems is needed to let it progress to a more streamlined process?


It actually was maybe 5yrs ago? My airline stopped accepting paper tickets, we’d still get some out of the Middle East. Although only since Covid did we stop issuing paper EBT coupons for interline excess. And in a bad disruption where time was critical and I couldn’t get the ticketing system to reissue on another airline, and in knew they had seats, I’d write out a Flight Interruption Manifest - just a paper ticket!

I wish I could show you a screenshot of the native system we use… it’s a green screen Dos looking thing, that displays an e-ticket pretty close to the visual of a paper ticket…. Lines of ‘flight coupons’ tax calculations at the bottom. Lines of manual entries to change anything.

But with so many ticketing agreements and interline agreements the entire global industry needs to change - and would never get collective agreement on the direction and spend ahead. Remember a lot of markets outside of North America, EU and Australia - travel agents still wield substantial influence, as does IATA on the ticketing side- they won’t give up their business and role so people can self service.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3592
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:33 pm

Yesterday, on Melbourne radio, there were callers complaining about both the QF SYD terminal transfer mess as well as ridiculous amounts of time on hold whilst trying to call QF. Proving the bad news does come in threes was this story on last night's 7 News about an alleged staff shortage in QF baggage handling https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne/status/1510893208997273607 where some people were waiting for between 2 and 5 hours for luggage to arrive in the baggage hall.

Interestingly, both the terminal transfer and baggage issues relate to parts of the business outsourced in the past two years. QF can blame its suppliers for these issues but the passengers are not interested in outsourcing and will blame these failures on Qantas itself.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2620
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:39 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DL is sure making UA (delaying MEL-SFO along with SYD-IAH/MEL-LAX having tentative dates of late October) and AA look conservative (currently not flying due to AA's widebody aircraft shortage - current aircraft better used making money elsewhere) despite DL sticking only to one route.

This did remind me a bit of VA having a go at Trans-Tasman after the NZ divorce, although in this case it seems sales may be strong on the LAX end for DL.

Good for DL for having a shot, perhaps even look at taking some of VA's former SYD based long-haul pax in J for their own J product if they had not defected to QF already.


I've seen the reference to AA not currently flying to Oz a couple of times today, yet AA72 789 seems to operating daily ex-SYD. Currently pushing back according to fr24, and I've seen departures the last two weekends while visiting the airport.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:50 pm

Kent350787 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DL is sure making UA (delaying MEL-SFO along with SYD-IAH/MEL-LAX having tentative dates of late October) and AA look conservative (currently not flying due to AA's widebody aircraft shortage - current aircraft better used making money elsewhere) despite DL sticking only to one route.

This did remind me a bit of VA having a go at Trans-Tasman after the NZ divorce, although in this case it seems sales may be strong on the LAX end for DL.

Good for DL for having a shot, perhaps even look at taking some of VA's former SYD based long-haul pax in J for their own J product if they had not defected to QF already.


I've seen the reference to AA not currently flying to Oz a couple of times today, yet AA72 789 seems to operating daily ex-SYD. Currently pushing back according to fr24, and I've seen departures the last two weekends while visiting the airport.

American will suspend flights on the 5th of May and redirect their B789 fleet onto the up coming busy and more profitable European Summer network.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3592
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:06 am

SCFlyer wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DL is sure making UA (delaying MEL-SFO along with SYD-IAH/MEL-LAX having tentative dates of late October) and AA look conservative (currently not flying due to AA's widebody aircraft shortage - current aircraft better used making money elsewhere) despite DL sticking only to one route.

This did remind me a bit of VA having a go at Trans-Tasman after the NZ divorce, although in this case it seems sales may be strong on the LAX end for DL.

Good for DL for having a shot, perhaps even look at taking some of VA's former SYD based long-haul pax in J for their own J product if they had not defected to QF already.

UA is not being conservative. Due to the issue with its P&W 772s needing FAA mandated repairs, its long haul fleet is stretched fairly thinly with 787s forced onto European routes usually serviced by the 772s. With the northern summer peak arriving, UA has obviously assessed it is more important to service existing routes before adding additional Pacific routes.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9472
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:16 am

FL420FT wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
anstar wrote:

If they had competent well trained staff then the call centre wait times would not be so long. I mean to take an hour of an agents time to do a simple flight cancellation is not exactly efficient. Even better if you could do half the stuff effectively online but you can't.


To be honest the other challenge is the industry has woefully under resourced development of digital solutions to ticketing, and the integration between airlines, OTA, trade, and IATA is maddeningly complex - only the American carriers have truly embraced proper digital solutions but at a cost - but it’s paid off!! Ticketing it, but it’s just such a complex beast it takes a lot of experience to navigate these ancient systems - I’d say the churn of staff would be phenomenal!

The industry really needs a Uber style digital disruption - somehow get rid of e-tickets that simply mimic the old school red coupons! LCCs had the right idea with bookings only, no tickets!!


And this is the biggest problem, I came from working in reservatons for 15 years with QF (through 9/11, Ansett, Icelandic Volcanos). Airlines reservations work with GDS systems (Amadeus, Sabre and others), that are basically NOT internet based, airlines try to build user friendly (both for the customer and staff) interfaces that are internet based. Then someone has to write coding that allows the two systems to interact. Simply put, it gets lost in translation between the two systems. As such, there is a limit to what can be programed into qantas.com to rectify the situation.

The flight credits that are held (for at least Qantas's perspective) are just dummy / pseudo flights added to a booking to keep the booking active, these pseudo flights go out as far as the QF system range allows (353 days). Once that date expires, the booking / credit is sometimes archived (read only) where the consultant has to rebuild a new booking (with a new reference number), adding in the old e-ticket number and working out an additional collection. If multiple credits, potentially multiple archived bookings. It's simple, yet tedious to go thorugh them all).

Another issue for qantas.com is if the credit is from a travel agent booking. Qantas.com can't pick up travel agent bookings that have been held in credit either through the agent, through their webpage or through any manual intervention by the reservations team. In fact, any booking that's been touched manually (by a res agent or anyone in qantas for that matter, automattically stops the ability for qantas.com to pick up the booking. Previously, once one change is complete through the internet, that was it, no more changes through the internet would work. Not sure if that has improved.

The over an hour to cancel a frequent flyer booking through the call centre is disgusting. No denying it. It should be a quick 5 minute (if that) job. You may have heard during the recording that one of the call centres is in Cape Town (South Africa), I still have contacts and I have heard that the turn over rate for staff is shocking. As much as 40 percent every year also on top of that is the bare bones training and lack of geographic knowlege that they have (didn't realise that OOL and BNE airports were approximately 100km apart as an example). The times on hold are probably the staff asking a colleague, supervisor, team leader questions that they have no idea about.

Previous Qantas reservation staff, that have moved elsewhere within the company, are now trying, being told / asked to help out with some of the back end work (queue work and schedule change work) as well.


I fully understand and appreciate how cumbersome back-end systems are, admittedly not with Qantas but I have several years ticketing experience. 99% of passengers have no idea how complex the legacy systems are, and why something that logically would be a couple of clicks can take several minutes while the agent manually types lines of code.

From my perspective, I’m not demanding that the airlines do anything radical, just invest in the customer-facing systems that the US carriers have already developed and adopted. There will of course be some reworking and reprogramming required, but they’re not reinventing the wheel.

Qantas have cut airport customer service during Covid and specifically said that passengers could manage their own booking using the app, which sounds good in theory but does not work in practice. When other airlines already have the customer overlay to manage ticket reissue via an app, it doesn’t seem far fetched to expect Qantas to do the same if they’re not prepared to employ staff to assist stranded passengers.
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 9472
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:20 am

[twoid][/twoid]
tullamarine wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DL is sure making UA (delaying MEL-SFO along with SYD-IAH/MEL-LAX having tentative dates of late October) and AA look conservative (currently not flying due to AA's widebody aircraft shortage - current aircraft better used making money elsewhere) despite DL sticking only to one route.

This did remind me a bit of VA having a go at Trans-Tasman after the NZ divorce, although in this case it seems sales may be strong on the LAX end for DL.

Good for DL for having a shot, perhaps even look at taking some of VA's former SYD based long-haul pax in J for their own J product if they had not defected to QF already.

UA is not being conservative. Due to the issue with its P&W 772s needing FAA mandated repairs, its long haul fleet is stretched fairly thinly with 787s forced onto European routes usually serviced by the 772s. With the northern summer peak arriving, UA has obviously assessed it is more important to service existing routes before adding additional Pacific routes.


Absolutely, but the other thing to consider is that United at one point had the same (or more?) capacity planned for NS22 than NS19. Don’t forget that SYD-LAX was 3x, SYD-IAH was 4x, and MEL-SFO hadn’t launched yet. I think their ‘conservative’ approach better ramps up capacity against demand.

What I haven’t seen anywhere is whether Delta is going 10x year round, or is this just a seasonal increase for Dec/Jan. The 16 Dec start date kind of implies the latter.
Last edited by RyanairGuru on Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 5751
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:20 am

tullamarine wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Speaking of demand Delta is ramping up services to 10 flights a week…

Delta is boosting Sydney-LAX to ten flights each week

Despite the loss of longtime partner Virgin Australia, Delta is going all-in with its sole trans-Pacific route.

Soaring demand between Australia and the United States is driving Delta Air Lines to mount a confident ten Sydney-Los Angeles flights per week by the end of this year.
Despite local partner Virgin Australia switching its alliance to rival United Airlines, the Atlanta-based carrier will go beyond its daily DL40 service from 16 December this year.
Every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday will see the newly-minted flight DL42 leave Sydney at 2:15pm – compared to the 11:20am departure of DL40 – to reach the City of Angels at 9am, ready for travellers to put in a full day or catch a connecting flight on the SkyTeam member's extensive domestic US network.

Read more: https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 9odkixdwro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


DL is sure making UA (delaying MEL-SFO along with SYD-IAH/MEL-LAX having tentative dates of late October) and AA look conservative (currently not flying due to AA's widebody aircraft shortage - current aircraft better used making money elsewhere) despite DL sticking only to one route.

This did remind me a bit of VA having a go at Trans-Tasman after the NZ divorce, although in this case it seems sales may be strong on the LAX end for DL.

Good for DL for having a shot, perhaps even look at taking some of VA's former SYD based long-haul pax in J for their own J product if they had not defected to QF already.

UA is not being conservative. Due to the issue with its P&W 772s needing FAA mandated repairs, its long haul fleet is stretched fairly thinly with 787s forced onto European routes usually serviced by the 772s. With the northern summer peak arriving, UA has obviously assessed it is more important to service existing routes before adding additional Pacific routes.


UA's B772s powered by P&W engines and needing those FAA mandated repairs aren't the frames that typically flew to Europe or other intercontinental long haul routes. These were reconfigured a while back and were operating mostly Domestic US (Mainland-Hawaii, Hub-to-Hub) routes, and the 787's haven't entirely been forced onto European routes. UA made a decision to use more of them on TATL as the pandemic set in, alongside the 767-300ER and the 767-400ER which, combined are mainstays of the TATL network. The 77W is used on a handful of TATL operations. If anything, UA has had to find places to operate the 77Ws as so much TPAC has been pulled down, or seen huge capacity reductions the last two years. The 772s that were previously, and still are used on UA's TATL operations are the ER's, not the 77As, which are a blend of the legacy UA and legacy CO fleets.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:45 am

Cebu Pacific has moved forward resumption of MNL-SYD to 1 June, 3 weekly

MNL-MEL planned for resumption from 30 October 22

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220404-5jsyd
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:51 am

Air Canada to increase SYD-YVR to 10 weekly from 6 June to 5 September

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -each-week
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:24 am

Just heard on radio here in Melbourne about an emergency evacuation at MEL involving a REX flight from MEL to King Island. Apparently pax were told to jump out the plane (presumably one of the Saabs being a King Island flight) due to engine issues. Only injuries seems to be grazed elbows according to a passenger who was just interviewed on radio
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:50 am

 
a320fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:51 am

Doesn’t the Saab have airstairs integrated into the cabin door? If so I imagine these pax were jumping off the wing after using the overwing exits. Must of been a somewhat serious engine issue if they decided to evac through those exits rather than something orderly through the cabin door.
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:51 am

a320fan wrote:
Doesn’t the Saab have airstairs integrated into the cabin door? If so I imagine these pax were jumping off the wing after using the overwing exits. Must of been a somewhat serious engine issue if they decided to evac through those exits rather than something orderly through the cabin door.


The stairs are stowed to the side of the door when pax are on board and the door is closed. The door can be opened and use as an exit without the stairs just fine, which is what this sounds like.
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:06 am

I'm loving the reports of 43 pax on board the Saab! There is not one in their fleet (and I'd hope the world) that holds that many. I assume they mean 34 or less.
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:04 pm

qf2220 wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

To be honest the other challenge is the industry has woefully under resourced development of digital solutions to ticketing, and the integration between airlines, OTA, trade, and IATA is maddeningly complex - only the American carriers have truly embraced proper digital solutions but at a cost - but it’s paid off!! Ticketing it, but it’s just such a complex beast it takes a lot of experience to navigate these ancient systems - I’d say the churn of staff would be phenomenal!

The industry really needs a Uber style digital disruption - somehow get rid of e-tickets that simply mimic the old school red coupons! LCCs had the right idea with bookings only, no tickets!!


And this is the biggest problem, I came from working in reservatons for 15 years with QF (through 9/11, Ansett, Icelandic Volcanos). Airlines reservations work with GDS systems (Amadeus, Sabre and others), that are basically NOT internet based, airlines try to build user friendly (both for the customer and staff) interfaces that are internet based. Then someone has to write coding that allows the two systems to interact. Simply put, it gets lost in translation between the two systems. As such, there is a limit to what can be programed into qantas.com to rectify the situation.

The flight credits that are held (for at least Qantas's perspective) are just dummy / pseudo flights added to a booking to keep the booking active, these pseudo flights go out as far as the QF system range allows (353 days). Once that date expires, the booking / credit is sometimes archived (read only) where the consultant has to rebuild a new booking (with a new reference number), adding in the old e-ticket number and working out an additional collection. If multiple credits, potentially multiple archived bookings. It's simple, yet tedious to go thorugh them all).

Another issue for qantas.com is if the credit is from a travel agent booking. Qantas.com can't pick up travel agent bookings that have been held in credit either through the agent, through their webpage or through any manual intervention by the reservations team. In fact, any booking that's been touched manually (by a res agent or anyone in qantas for that matter, automattically stops the ability for qantas.com to pick up the booking. Previously, once one change is complete through the internet, that was it, no more changes through the internet would work. Not sure if that has improved.

The over an hour to cancel a frequent flyer booking through the call centre is disgusting. No denying it. It should be a quick 5 minute (if that) job. You may have heard during the recording that one of the call centres is in Cape Town (South Africa), I still have contacts and I have heard that the turn over rate for staff is shocking. As much as 40 percent every year also on top of that is the bare bones training and lack of geographic knowlege that they have (didn't realise that OOL and BNE airports were approximately 100km apart as an example). The times on hold are probably the staff asking a colleague, supervisor, team leader questions that they have no idea about.

Previous Qantas reservation staff, that have moved elsewhere within the company, are now trying, being told / asked to help out with some of the back end work (queue work and schedule change work) as well.


Fascinating information. Long and the short of it, would it be fair to say that the world of airline ticket transactions hasn't made much progress, much like bank transactions? And that some major, expensive investment to replace legacy systems is needed to let it progress to a more streamlined process?


Airline ticketing hasn't moved far at all, even with the length of time that e-tickets have been around, there are still legacy terms/concepts like "plating" that are still used to this day.
When booking fares that involve multiple airlines, depending on the fare construction the agent has to determine which airline the ticket is plated to.
The easiest example of that being if you're booking a LH fare on the outbound flights and maybe LX or OS on the return, the agent determines which one of these airlines the entire ticket is essentially ticketed to.
The first 3 digits of the ticket number is the airlines plate, QF = 081, VA = 795
 
IndianicWorld
Posts: 3597
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 11:32 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:42 pm

qf789 wrote:
Air Canada to increase SYD-YVR to 10 weekly from 6 June to 5 September

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... -each-week


Interesting moves by AC and DL to increase SYD flights.

Do wonder if AC will be back into MEL, even if seasonally as it actually appeared to be looking at doing anyway pre-Covid from memory.

Pity to see their flights go, but trying to fly from 3 cities was likely a challenge for year round flights in better times, let alone as things rebuild.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 9472
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:16 pm

Obzerva wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
FL420FT wrote:

And this is the biggest problem, I came from working in reservatons for 15 years with QF (through 9/11, Ansett, Icelandic Volcanos). Airlines reservations work with GDS systems (Amadeus, Sabre and others), that are basically NOT internet based, airlines try to build user friendly (both for the customer and staff) interfaces that are internet based. Then someone has to write coding that allows the two systems to interact. Simply put, it gets lost in translation between the two systems. As such, there is a limit to what can be programed into qantas.com to rectify the situation.

The flight credits that are held (for at least Qantas's perspective) are just dummy / pseudo flights added to a booking to keep the booking active, these pseudo flights go out as far as the QF system range allows (353 days). Once that date expires, the booking / credit is sometimes archived (read only) where the consultant has to rebuild a new booking (with a new reference number), adding in the old e-ticket number and working out an additional collection. If multiple credits, potentially multiple archived bookings. It's simple, yet tedious to go thorugh them all).

Another issue for qantas.com is if the credit is from a travel agent booking. Qantas.com can't pick up travel agent bookings that have been held in credit either through the agent, through their webpage or through any manual intervention by the reservations team. In fact, any booking that's been touched manually (by a res agent or anyone in qantas for that matter, automattically stops the ability for qantas.com to pick up the booking. Previously, once one change is complete through the internet, that was it, no more changes through the internet would work. Not sure if that has improved.

The over an hour to cancel a frequent flyer booking through the call centre is disgusting. No denying it. It should be a quick 5 minute (if that) job. You may have heard during the recording that one of the call centres is in Cape Town (South Africa), I still have contacts and I have heard that the turn over rate for staff is shocking. As much as 40 percent every year also on top of that is the bare bones training and lack of geographic knowlege that they have (didn't realise that OOL and BNE airports were approximately 100km apart as an example). The times on hold are probably the staff asking a colleague, supervisor, team leader questions that they have no idea about.

Previous Qantas reservation staff, that have moved elsewhere within the company, are now trying, being told / asked to help out with some of the back end work (queue work and schedule change work) as well.


Fascinating information. Long and the short of it, would it be fair to say that the world of airline ticket transactions hasn't made much progress, much like bank transactions? And that some major, expensive investment to replace legacy systems is needed to let it progress to a more streamlined process?


Airline ticketing hasn't moved far at all, even with the length of time that e-tickets have been around, there are still legacy terms/concepts like "plating" that are still used to this day.
When booking fares that involve multiple airlines, depending on the fare construction the agent has to determine which airline the ticket is plated to.
The easiest example of that being if you're booking a LH fare on the outbound flights and maybe LX or OS on the return, the agent determines which one of these airlines the entire ticket is essentially ticketed to.
The first 3 digits of the ticket number is the airlines plate, QF = 081, VA = 795


Most people don’t realise how archaic the process is. If you have an interline carrier (say EK on a QF 081 ticket) then the issuing carrier collects all of the revenue, and then when the passenger travels the operating airline ‘collects’ the ticket coupon and submits it to the issuing airline for reimbursement. The process is somewhat more automated with e-tickets, but the basic process has not changed since the 1950s.

Other anachronisms abound. You can still only have four segments (including surface sectors) on a ticket number, as that was the number of lines on a paper ticket, and a maximum of four ticket numbers issued in conjunction, meaning that you can still only book a maximum of 16 sectors.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Tue Apr 05, 2022 10:10 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Fascinating information. Long and the short of it, would it be fair to say that the world of airline ticket transactions hasn't made much progress, much like bank transactions? And that some major, expensive investment to replace legacy systems is needed to let it progress to a more streamlined process?


Airline ticketing hasn't moved far at all, even with the length of time that e-tickets have been around, there are still legacy terms/concepts like "plating" that are still used to this day.
When booking fares that involve multiple airlines, depending on the fare construction the agent has to determine which airline the ticket is plated to.
The easiest example of that being if you're booking a LH fare on the outbound flights and maybe LX or OS on the return, the agent determines which one of these airlines the entire ticket is essentially ticketed to.
The first 3 digits of the ticket number is the airlines plate, QF = 081, VA = 795


Most people don’t realise how archaic the process is. If you have an interline carrier (say EK on a QF 081 ticket) then the issuing carrier collects all of the revenue, and then when the passenger travels the operating airline ‘collects’ the ticket coupon and submits it to the issuing airline for reimbursement. The process is somewhat more automated with e-tickets, but the basic process has not changed since the 1950s.

Other anachronisms abound. You can still only have four segments (including surface sectors) on a ticket number, as that was the number of lines on a paper ticket, and a maximum of four ticket numbers issued in conjunction, meaning that you can still only book a maximum of 16 sectors.


All valid points!
Pretty sure the 16 sectors part is the reason for that cap on flights on the alliance round world tickets.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:51 am

The inaugural JQ MEL-BQB (Busselton) service has started today with the flight landing at BQB about 15 minutes ago

As part of JQ’s 12 hour sale fare prices are in sale for $89 one way

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... -c-6351414
 
ben175
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:23 am

qf789 wrote:
The inaugural JQ MEL-BQB (Busselton) service has started today with the flight landing at BQB about 15 minutes ago

As part of JQ’s 12 hour sale fare prices are in sale for $89 one way

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... -c-6351414


Incredible to see this route get off the ground after 4? failed startup attempts due to border closures.

I truly believe the Southwest of WA around BQB is one of the most spectacular places on Earth. Will be a fantastic tourism boost to this area.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 549
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:08 am

ben175 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
The inaugural JQ MEL-BQB (Busselton) service has started today with the flight landing at BQB about 15 minutes ago

As part of JQ’s 12 hour sale fare prices are in sale for $89 one way

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... -c-6351414


Incredible to see this route get off the ground after 4? failed startup attempts due to border closures.

I truly believe the Southwest of WA around BQB is one of the most spectacular places on Earth. Will be a fantastic tourism boost to this area.


I was waiting for this to open up some time ago because of my wish to see the Margaret River area. At the time CoVid was rampant so the service didn't get off the ground (sorry, bad pun not intended).

Busselton and the Margaret River area are certainly beautiful places so I hope that it performs well. The beaches around the south west of WA are amazing too. Maybe it might be a bit of a summer draw card for some, other than the wine and food.

Cheers.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 3424
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:50 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Fascinating information. Long and the short of it, would it be fair to say that the world of airline ticket transactions hasn't made much progress, much like bank transactions? And that some major, expensive investment to replace legacy systems is needed to let it progress to a more streamlined process?


Airline ticketing hasn't moved far at all, even with the length of time that e-tickets have been around, there are still legacy terms/concepts like "plating" that are still used to this day.
When booking fares that involve multiple airlines, depending on the fare construction the agent has to determine which airline the ticket is plated to.
The easiest example of that being if you're booking a LH fare on the outbound flights and maybe LX or OS on the return, the agent determines which one of these airlines the entire ticket is essentially ticketed to.
The first 3 digits of the ticket number is the airlines plate, QF = 081, VA = 795


Most people don’t realise how archaic the process is. If you have an interline carrier (say EK on a QF 081 ticket) then the issuing carrier collects all of the revenue, and then when the passenger travels the operating airline ‘collects’ the ticket coupon and submits it to the issuing airline for reimbursement. The process is somewhat more automated with e-tickets, but the basic process has not changed since the 1950s.

Other anachronisms abound. You can still only have four segments (including surface sectors) on a ticket number, as that was the number of lines on a paper ticket, and a maximum of four ticket numbers issued in conjunction, meaning that you can still only book a maximum of 16 sectors.


You just triggered a memory! Years ago I was the airline representative in a NSW Consumer Claims Tribunal case. The ticket was plated on QF and we were the operating carrier on the 5th & 6th sectors that were never flown. I had to give the magistrate a crash course on how inter-airline payments work. I remember saying to him, "you might not like it, but that's how the system works- we only get paid when that coupon is pulled and later credited by the IATA clearing house, so if you decide to rule against us there is a problem- we can't reimburse the complainant because we were never paid... You need to adjoin QF to the case."
 
tullamarine
Posts: 3592
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:00 am

ben175 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
The inaugural JQ MEL-BQB (Busselton) service has started today with the flight landing at BQB about 15 minutes ago

As part of JQ’s 12 hour sale fare prices are in sale for $89 one way

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... -c-6351414


Incredible to see this route get off the ground after 4? failed startup attempts due to border closures.

I truly believe the Southwest of WA around BQB is one of the most spectacular places on Earth. Will be a fantastic tourism boost to this area.

It is a beautiful place but I do have to question how many people will actually fly 3500kms from MEL to SW WA and not visit Perth 2.5 hours away. I guess you could arrive into one place and depart from the other but then you risk the perils of one-way car rental fees etc.
 
ben175
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:13 am

tullamarine wrote:
ben175 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
The inaugural JQ MEL-BQB (Busselton) service has started today with the flight landing at BQB about 15 minutes ago

As part of JQ’s 12 hour sale fare prices are in sale for $89 one way

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/travel ... -c-6351414


Incredible to see this route get off the ground after 4? failed startup attempts due to border closures.

I truly believe the Southwest of WA around BQB is one of the most spectacular places on Earth. Will be a fantastic tourism boost to this area.

It is a beautiful place but I do have to question how many people will actually fly 3500kms from MEL to SW WA and not visit Perth 2.5 hours away. I guess you could arrive into one place and depart from the other but then you risk the perils of one-way car rental fees etc.


Flying into PER and out of BQB is something I will seriously consider as I have a family beach house in Dunsborough that I visit 2-3 times a year. Not having to drive back up to Perth to fly home will be a godsend.

Also, I’m sure there will be decent feed from nearby Bunbury, especially to fill an A320 thrice weekly.

I don’t think JQ would have persevered with this route so much had it not had very strong forward bookings. To be honest, this is the kind of route that has Bonza written all over it. Nice to see JQ experimenting with untapped markets. I would love to see them on SYD/MEL-BME next to bring down the astronomical fares on QF.
 
melpax
Posts: 2359
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:12 pm

Another incident involving one of the Rex Saabs, this time involving a Roma-BNE flight. Similar to yesterday's issues, smoke coming out of an engine. Wonder how much longer Rex can persevere with the Saabs...

https://www.theage.com.au/national/engi ... 1649238839

Notice they have a photo of one of the 738's in the article, and not a Saab......

7news report of yesterday's incident at MEL. At least they used footage of the Saabs & not the 738's! Though the reporter did his standup at Terminal 1 (QF domestic)...

https://7news.com.au/news/melbourne/pas ... -c-6343594
 
User avatar
LoganTheBogan
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2022

Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:20 pm

ZL6674 and ZL6681 was also delayed by multiple hours due to aircraft issues today too.

GFF also faced a 4.5 hour delay a couple of days ago because of Saab issues. They're piling up very quickly.

Not to mention the Rex bus shortage at SYD that has been causing strife with flights.
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